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Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE

Related threads:
Tune Add: missing tunes wanted - Part II (100)
Tune Add: Missing tunes: WANTED - part EIGHT (104) (closed)
Tune Add: Missing tunes wanted: (120)
Tune Add: Missing tunes WANTED: Part SEVEN (103)
Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted-part SIX (99)
Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted-part V (104)
Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted -IV (96)
Tune Add: Missing Tunes Wanted - Part III (100)


MMario 26 Jun 02 - 10:40 AM
MMario 26 Jun 02 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,Sonja 26 Jun 02 - 10:22 PM
MMario 27 Jun 02 - 08:14 AM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Jun 02 - 08:22 AM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Jun 02 - 03:37 PM
MMario 28 Jun 02 - 03:39 PM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Jun 02 - 04:04 PM
MMario 28 Jun 02 - 04:05 PM
GUEST,Gorgeous Gary 28 Jun 02 - 09:56 PM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Jun 02 - 10:28 PM
MMario 30 Jun 02 - 10:18 PM
Malcolm Douglas 01 Jul 02 - 05:55 AM
MMario 01 Jul 02 - 09:43 AM
Malcolm Douglas 09 Jul 02 - 12:43 PM
MMario 24 Jul 02 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Philippa 25 Jul 02 - 07:15 AM
GUEST 25 Jul 02 - 07:37 AM
Malcolm Douglas 30 Jul 02 - 11:10 AM
MMario 30 Jul 02 - 12:18 PM
GUEST,Philippa 05 Oct 02 - 05:40 AM
MMario 05 Oct 02 - 10:13 AM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Oct 02 - 01:03 PM
Sorcha 05 Oct 02 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,MMario 05 Oct 02 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,Malcolm 05 Oct 02 - 06:20 PM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Oct 02 - 01:03 PM
Malcolm Douglas 08 Oct 02 - 12:16 PM
Malcolm Douglas 08 Oct 02 - 12:19 PM
MMario 08 Oct 02 - 12:21 PM
Malcolm Douglas 15 Oct 02 - 03:07 PM
Malcolm Douglas 29 Oct 02 - 09:12 PM
Malcolm Douglas 02 Nov 02 - 08:42 PM
MMario 04 Nov 02 - 10:41 AM
Malcolm Douglas 04 Nov 02 - 02:12 PM
MMario 04 Nov 02 - 02:28 PM
Malcolm Douglas 04 Nov 02 - 08:28 PM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Nov 02 - 09:49 PM
Malcolm Douglas 06 Nov 02 - 08:25 PM
Malcolm Douglas 07 Nov 02 - 09:56 PM
Malcolm Douglas 08 Nov 02 - 01:18 PM
MMario 08 Nov 02 - 01:35 PM
Malcolm Douglas 09 Nov 02 - 11:18 AM
Malcolm Douglas 13 Dec 02 - 09:53 PM
Felipa 22 Jan 03 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,Gorgeous Gary 10 Feb 03 - 08:25 PM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Apr 03 - 11:15 AM
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Subject: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:40 AM

previous thread part Eight.

this thread is to help keep track of those tunes missing from the October 1999 Digital Tradition, which have been "found and posted" etc.

List of those tunes still missing; lists of those tunes found; and midi or NWC files of many of the "found tunes" can be obtained through me.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:48 AM

with Malcolm's latest additions we are (I think, tentitivly, if I have counted anywhere accurately) at about 1890 tunes to go.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST,Sonja
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 10:22 PM

MMario, I have tried twice to play the MIDI for My Sweet Wyoming Home in the DT and got a message that the URL is incorrect or words to that effect. I.e., there's no tune to be played in the DT file.

~SWO~


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 08:14 AM

I'll let the guys know. (I get the same error)


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 08:22 AM

The filename is wrong in the link; it should be WYOMHOM.mid, not WYOMHOME.mid. This link should work: My Sweet Wyoming Home (midi)


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 03:37 PM

926)   DOWN IN YON FORREST  This text was quoted from John Jacob Niles, who copyrighted it in 1935, apparently, though he made no claim to have written it. I don't have the relevant book, so I don't know who he said he had collected it from, though it seems that he got it in North Carolina; however, an almost identical text, with tune, was published in the Journal of the English Folk Dance and Song Society, vol.4, number 3, 1942. It had been noted in 1936 by Ralph Vaughan Williams from the singing of the folklorist Evelyn Wells, who learned it from Amos Curtis of Brasstown, North Carolina. Midi made from RVW's notation. There are a few minor textual differences; none greater than might be expected and not worth noting here (assuming the DT file to be a correct quote from Niles). Perhaps at some point in the future somebody who has the Niles music can compare the two; I expect them to be pretty much the same.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 03:39 PM

!!! could you e-mail me that midi please Malcolm? (THIS is one of the songs that I was hoping to find when I started this whole thing two years ago!!!!!!)


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 04:04 PM

On its way to you.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 04:05 PM

Thank YOU! (I say that a lot to you Malcolm, but I *do* mean it.)


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST,Gorgeous Gary
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 09:56 PM

How does one get a hold of the missing tunes list? I'd like to take a swing at the list...who knows what tunes are lurking around my large collection of filk tapes and CD's. Either as parodies or as straight covers...

-- Gary (who's tossed his cookie again)


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 10:28 PM

We could certainly use help with a lot of the modern American material in the DT, some of which is very obscure indeed from my point of view; there's quite a lot of parodies lurking about in there as well. MMario will send you a list if you give him contact details; don't forget always to specify your source (not all Filkers seem to be very conscientious about that). Welcome to the struggle...


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 30 Jun 02 - 10:18 PM

Gary - pm me (if you can find a cookie) or eomail me at lpola.edutech.org


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 05:55 AM

187)   BALALOO, LAMMY  From Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933), where it is called Now balaloo, lammy; midi made from notation in that book.

2963)   ROBIN REDBRIEST'S TESTAMENT  The DT file contains seven variants, several from Greig-Duncan, and will need to be re-visited later. For now, I have just the one tune, from Alfred Moffat's Fifty Traditional Scottish Nursery Rhymes (1933), where it is called Guid-day now, bonnie Robin, lad; midi made from notation in that book. Moffat's set is essentially a much-shortened form of example (1) , with chorus as specified in the file.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 09:43 AM

files updated.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Jul 02 - 12:43 PM

2617)   OLD MINER  The DT text was apparently copied from a now-defunct website containing lyrics of songs recorded by Maddy Prior. It appears to have been transcribed by ear from a record, and is inaccurate and incomplete. The song was published in Roy Palmer's Songs of the Midlands (1972); it was collected by John Moreton in the early 1960s, from an unnamed source. Palmer notes:

"Sung by an old miner in Haunchwood Pit, Nuneaton, Warwickshire... The pit is now closed. The informant originated in Durham, where he had learned the tune. The words were his own."

This being the case, the DT text should be amended to reflect the writer's intention rather than the transcriber's (apparently, rather poor) ear or Maddy Prior's memory. In fact, a nearly correct text was posted at Maddy Prior's Lyrics: The Old Miner a couple of weeks after the mutilated set; the poster innocently added it as "another version" rather than (almost) the right version (which is what it is; this is not a traditional song) and the harvesters passed it over. Some small amendments to it:

Verse 3, line 3: that train
Verse 4, line 1: Oh who will load
Verse 5, line 2: When friends are dying
Verse 6, line 3: this old coal miner
Verse 6, line 4: paid God my fare.

In the final lines of verses 2,3,4 and 5, it is Who, dear God; not Oh, dear God.

The unnamed singer appears from the notation given to have sung an extra phrase at the end of each verse; this is not made clear in the text given in the book, however, and it looks as if a lot of revival singers have simply omitted it. To quote the first verse as an example:

Oh, who'll replace this old miner,
And who will take my place below ?
And who will follow the trepanner,
Oh, dear God, when I go?
Who, dear Lord, who?
This final line is presumably to be added to each verse. Midi made from notation in the work cited, including the "missing" line.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 01:23 PM

3653) A WEE DOCHT AND DORIS - NWC and midi file sent to Joe. :from Historic American Sheet Music site...published 1911; Gerald Grafton and Harry Lauder


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 07:15 AM

Don't Cry in Your Sleep - tune at Hush, hush thread

What about tune corrections (I did start a thread on that topic)? For example, Making Babies By Steam (Daniel O'Connell's Steam Engine) should go to the tune of Larry O'Gaff, not Haste to the Wedding! And The Humours of Whiskey is also usually sung to the air of Larry O'Gaff but the tune of Father O'Flynn is given in the DT.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 07:37 AM

0.8912 Mo Ghile Mear in one of many threads


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 11:10 AM

2395)   MR. BLOCK  "To the tune of: It Looks To Me Like A Big Time Tonight". Midi made from notation originally printed in Sing Out! vol.1, 1959.

940)   DREMLEN FEYGL (Drowsing Birds)  Midi made from notation which originally appeared in Sing Out! vol. 6, 1964. The title there was given as S'Dremlin Feigle, with words and music both credited to Leah Rudnitzky; the DT has "Words by Leah Rudnicki; Music by Leyb Yampolski". Yiddish music is not my field, so I have no comment on that, or on the fact that the spelling system used in the DT is completely different from that used in Sing Out; presumably Yiddish uses more than one. They gave a translation, which the contributor to the DT failed to do:

Birds are dozing on the branches,
Sleep my dear little one.
At your crib on an old wooden bench,
A stranger sings to you.

There was a time when your crib
Was woven out of happiness.
But now your mother, oh, your mother,
Will never return.

I have seen your father running,
Under a hail of stones
And his far and lonely wail
Flew over the fields.
The translation was perhaps made by Dina Suller, who sent the song to Sing Out.

2398)   MRS. ADLAM'S ANGELS  Not, as tentatively ascribed in the DT file, by Brian Bower, but by Ralph McTell. Midi made from notation in Ralph McTell, Essex Books, 1972. ©Essex Music, 1968. The DT transcription contains errors or changes; since this is not a traditional song, I'll specify precisely; line numbers refer to the DT file:

    Verse 1
  • line 1: And Mrs. Adlam said, angels stood round our bed
  • line 2: ...right through till day begun
  • line 6: ...softly singing in the air.
    Verse 2
  • line 1: Sundays occasionally
  • line 2: Sundays seem ...
  • line 3: In the dingy mission hall, Mrs. Adlam praying
  • line 4: And down the street back home all our mates were playing
    The DT has a line accidentally dropped in from a completely different song!
  • line 5: With...
    Verse 3
  • ...ain't like that...
    When transcribing from commercial recordings, many people here render standard English words like going as goin', because they have mistaken accent for dialect; here is a rare example of someone being too careful in the other direction!
  • line 3: ...around her curled
  • lines 4 & 5: A keeping her safe from life and guarding her from the world.
  • line 6: On a summer's Sunday...
  • line 7: To hear...

2376)   MORRISSEY AND THE BLACK  The DT text was taken from MacKenzie's Ballads and Sea Songs from Nova Scotia, where no tune was given. Midi made from notation in Edward Ives' Folksongs of New Brunswick (1989); that example came from Spurgeon Allaby, and is a variant of Villikins and His Dinah. Obviously, we don't know whether or not Harry Sutherland used that tune or one like it.

Roud Index no. 1884, Laws H19.

2369)   MONTH OF JANUARY  The DT text was transcribed from a June Tabor record; she seems to have recorded an arrangement of the traditional set that came from Sarah Makem, omitting the final two verses, as did Dolores Keane. Midi made from notation in Peter Kennedy's Folksongs of Britain and Ireland, 1975, where it was called The False Young Man. Kennedy and Sean O'Boyle recorded the song from Sarah Makem in 1953. Additional background and the two verses not in the DT are at Lyr/Chords Req: month of january

Roud Index no. 175, Laws P20.
Variants have been found in Ireland, Canada, Scotland, the USA and England, often with titles like Cruel Was My Father, The Fatal Snowstorm, and so on.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 12:18 PM

files have been updated. about 1880 to go!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 05:40 AM

Farewell to Funery, which should be spelled Fiunary, is in the Mudcat midis now. See also the thread Slan le Fionnairigh


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 10:13 AM

Thanks Philippa! I didn't even check that against my list (oops!)


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 01:03 PM

I've now gone through the new "missing" list. The following is a list of those which have already been dealt with by me or by others, together with a few that I had forgotten to signal as "done".

BUSHWILI   ABOUT THE BUSH, WILLY
POACHRS   BOLD POACHERS,   Source notes and corrections to mistakes in the DT file HERE
DROYLSDN   DROYLSDEN WAKES   Tune is at Mudcat Midis.
GREENLDY   THE GREEN LADY   Tune is at Mudcat Midis. Something very odd has happened to the text in the DT file, with line-breaks in the middle of words and all sorts; perhaps somebody could fiddle with it at some point.... There's a correction to the lyrics in the original thread; for reasons explained there, there is a line missing: Green Lady
HALFHITC   HALF HITCH   Tune is at Mudcat Midis.
HANGEDBE   HANGED I SHALL BE   A midi of the tune can be got via a link in the old amalgamated thread: Hanged I shall be   There's also some additional source information -such as the name of the singer from whom it was collected- that ought to be incorporated into the DT file.
HIHORO   HI HORO 'S NA HORO EILE   Done. details HERE
HUNWREN2   HUNTING THE WREN   This shouldn't be on the list at all; it's got a midi.
GRENHOLN   HOLLIN, GREEN HOLLIN  I thought I'd mentioned this one, but it looks as if I forgot; which is embarrassing, as it was written by a Douglas. The DT file is taken from Boulton and MacLeod's Songs of the North vol. II, and I've made a midi from the notation in that book.
IWILLGO   I WILL GO   Did it a year ago.
DIEDLOV2   I WISH, I WISH   Tune is at Mudcat Midis.
KEEPLOVE   I WONDER WHAT IS KEEPING MY TRUE LOVE TONIGHT   Tune is at Mudcat Midis.
OLDSONG2   THE OLD SONGS (2)  Midi made from notation in English Dance and Song (volume 52 number 3; October 1990): words by Bob Copper, tune by Peter Bellamy. The text in the DT seems to be mainly that posted in the thread Lyr Req: The Old Songs, with the gaps corrected from the "official" text I provided when the thread was revived.
PRSSGANG   PRESS GANG   Dealt with (provisionally)   HERE
STRMWIND   STORMY WINDS   Dealt with HERE.
STPSTONE   STEPSTONE   This one has a midi. There are three other "Stepstone" files with various titles; those I dealt with some time back, and they are no longer on the list.
MENKENT   THREE MERRY MEN OF KENT   I thought that I'd mentioned this one already, but I can't find any reference now. This song was published in William Chappell's Popular Music of the Olden Time, vol.II, p.558 (1859), though the DT names no source. Midi made from the notation given in that book.
GONEALOF   TOM BOWLING  There was apparently a midi (made by me) on the Midi Pages, but it isn't there now. I'll send it in again.
KIRKCPED   THE WEE KIRKCUDBRIGHT CENTIPEDE   I've dealt with this somewhere, and I think corrected the lyric, but I can't find the Forum reference just at present.
BATTLWON   WHEN THE BATTLE IT WAS WON   Dealt with HERE.
WHITFISH   WHITE FISHER   Dealt with here and in Lyr & Tune Add: The White Fisher. The set I posted (which Bronson did not have access to) is now in the DT, with tune: THE WHITE FISHER 2, with additional source notes for the other DT file. We can't know if the tune is the same or even similar to whatever the other text was sung to, but it's the only one available.
WIMWAMWD   WIM WAM WADDLES   Dealt with HERE.
YNGBNKR   YOUNG BANKER   Dealt with HERE.
YNGHUNT5   YOUNG REDIN   Dealt with HERE.

The following were signed off earlier in this thread:

DREMFEYG   DREMLEN FEYGL (Drowsing Birds)
MORRBLCK   MORRISSEY AND THE BLACK
YONFORST   DOWN IN YON FORREST
MRBLOCK   MR. BLOCK
ADLAMANG   MRS. ADLAM'S ANGELS
OLDMINER   OLD MINER

Are you ready for the second batch of midis, Leo? It's bigger than the last one I sent you...


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 01:08 PM

I located an RA file of Sweet Adeline and sent it to MMario. Did you get it, MM?


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 05:47 PM

I got the Sweet adaline Sorcha - Malcolm - I never got the last batch of midis...

but yes, I'm ready for them.

And thanks for finding the ones I missed in the new list...


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST,Malcolm
Date: 05 Oct 02 - 06:20 PM

I'll send both lots, then. The first should have arrived the day I said I'd sent them; has your email address changed?


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Oct 02 - 01:03 PM

BLAKSMI2   THE BLACKSMITH (2)   No source is named for this one, which differs little from the Penguin set. I expect that whoever originally posted it learned it from a record; probably Steeleye Span, or from one of the numerous recordings made by people who have used their collation, which was put together from (unspecified) versions published in the Journal of the Folk Song Society. Certainly, they used the Penguin tune, which is in the DT file A BLACKSMITH COURTED ME, which is the Penguin set. A cross-reference is all that is needed. Roud 816.

There is a mistake in BLAKMI2; verse 2 line 3 has been garbled: Will burn and scorch I fear the shining sun his beauty is faintly ridiculous; fortunately, it is easy to guess the correct word-order. Let's hope that nobody learns it from the file and believes it to be an authentic variant; it isn't. Unless, of course, I'm a Dutchman.

SIRHUGH3   LITTLE SIR WILLIAM   No source is acknowledged for this text, though it is assigned the correct Child group number (155). It is his example T, and appeared in his Additions and Corrections, E&SPB vol.5 pp.240-1. It first appeared in M.H. Mason's Nursery Rhymes and Country Songs, and was re-printed in Lucy Broadwood's English County Songs (1893) with tune and the information that it was collected in Lincolnshire. Midi made from the notation given in this last book.

The DT text is not as originally noted; in verses 2, 3 and 5, school wife has been substituted for the original Jew's wife. The alteration appears to have been made by Benjamin Britten, when he made an "art music" arrangement of the song for voice and piano; he could hardly have used the original term, but the DT really should have a note indicating the modification. Roud 73.

MAIDBATH   A MAIDEN DID BATHING GO   Text from Thomas D'Urfey's Pills to Purge Melancholy. If quoted directly from the book (which I doubt), it wasn't the edition of 1719-20, in which the text is rather different (and longer), and has a different title, The Surpriz'd Nymph. Midi made from the notation in that book. The song appeared earlier on broadsides, as The Swimming Lady: or, A Wanton Discovery. According to Claude M. Simpson (The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music), it was previously set to a different tune, I'll Never Love Thee More. Roud 2035.

COVCARL2   LULLAY MY LIKING   Text from The Oxford Book of Carols. So easily found in any good public library that I can't imagine why it was added to the DT without the tune, which was written by Gustav Holst. Oh well; midi made from the book. The chorus is given first.

LSTYSMTH   LUSTY YOUNG SMITH   Allegedly from Pills To Purge Melancholy, but modernised and given a different refrain; perhaps by Ed McCurdy, perhaps via Ren Faires or the like. Hard to tell. It's also possible that not all editions of Pills in which it appeared had exactly the same text, I suppose. Bruce Olson attributes it to Richard Leveridge. Midi made from notation given in Pills (edition of 1719-20).

BALAENA   THE BALAENA   This file actually contains two sets, neither with a traditional source named. Roud 285.

The first is The Balaena, evidently a British version and perhaps taken from a Bert Lloyd record or some such. There are not many published sets; here I've made a midi from notation in The Scottish Folksinger (Norman Buchan and Peter Hall, 1973); this came from Bruce Laurenson of Lerwick. His text was pretty similar to the unattributed one we have here, all things considered.

The second is The Old Polina, a Newfoundland version. Evidently the one that appeared in The Penguin Book of Canadian Folk Songs (Edith Fowke, 1974) which was noted by Gerald Doyle from Captain Peter Carter and Harry R. Burton of Greenspond, Bonavista Bay in 1955. Midi made from notation in that book.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Oct 02 - 12:16 PM

BENTSAE   THE BENT SAE BROWN   Child 71, Roud 3322. Bronson commented: "According to the Gray-Muir MS., National Library of Scotland MS. 2254, there is a tune for this ballad in the Bunyan MS., 1877, p. 2. This MS. has not been discovered." It would appear that no tune has emerged subsequently.

BLARNROS   BLARNEY ROSES (2): This seems to be in the Download DT only; I couldn't find it at Mudcat. It's a duplicate of   BLARNEY ROSES; even the footnote is the same. The only difference between the two files is that the latter includes the tune. Roud 6329.

KEELLAD   BONNY KEEL LADDIE   From Bruce and Stokoe, Northumbrian Minstrelsy, 1882. Midi made from notation in that book. Roud 9021.

COMMSAIL   THE COMMON SAILOR   From Roy Palmer's Oxford Book of Sea Songs. Radriano, who posted it, forgot to mention that this text was noted by Richard Cotten, some time between 1883 and 1886, during his naval service. Tune and chorus are from Stan Hugill, who learned them from his father. ABC and MIDITEXT were posted in the original thread, but these belonged to a different version; midi made, therefore, from Palmer's notation. Roud 16880.

FISHRBOY   FISHER BOY   The file states "There is a variant called The Fisher Laddie." In fact, the DT text is just a rendering into Standard English of O The Bonny Fisher Lad, which can be found in Bruce and Stokoe, Northumbrian Minstrelsy, 1882. Midi made from notation in that book. Roud 3150.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Oct 02 - 12:19 PM

Typo in link to FISHER BOY

Sorry about that!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 08 Oct 02 - 12:21 PM

Like I'm going to complain? Horrors!

I think it's a good thing I have a vacation coming up! *grin*

Thanks again for all the work


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Oct 02 - 03:07 PM

MARDAUGH   THE EARL OF MAR'S DAUGHTER   Child #270; one example only. Midi made from notation in Christie's Traditional Ballad Airs, vol.II, 1881, "arranged from the way it was sung in Buchan". As is common with Christie, the second strain may be editorial. I have omitted the gracenotes for the sake of clarity, but have provided the full notation in abc format in this thread: Tune Req: The Earl of Mar's Daughter.

I'm having a ghastly time trying to fit The Bonny Keel Laddie (see above) to the pipe-tune notation. Bruce and Stokoe didn't attempt it, and neither did A.L. Lloyd when he printed a (simplified!) form of the tune in Come All Ye Bold Miners. I think I may just let people take their own chances on this one.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 09:12 PM

BURYNOTC   BURY ME NOT IN THE DEEP, DEEP SEA   "Adapted from the Peacock Collection", according to the DT file, the text of which derives from some band called Nightingale, whoever they might be. In fact, only a very few, trivial alterations have been made from the traditional version, with the exception of the omission of one verse, which belongs between verses 3 and 4 in the DT file:

"Oh bury me where my mother's prayer
And my sister's tears shall mingle there,
By my father's grave my grave shall be,
Oh bury me not in the deep deep sea."

The song was noted by Kenneth Peacock from Leonard Hulan of Jeffrey's, in July 1960. Midi made from notation in Peacock's Songs of the Newfoundland Outports, vol.I, 1965. Peacock 186 No. 1126. Roud 631, Laws B2.

CELWKMAN   CELEBRATED WORKING MAN   The DT text is taken from Gwen and Mary Polwarth's North Country Songs (1969) [not North County Songs, as the DT would have it], and was noted from Jack Elliot of Birtley, Durham. I don't have that book, but A.L. Lloyd publishes a set, also noted from Elliott (in 1963) in his Folk Song in England (1967). Midi from Lloyd's notation: the chorus is sung to the same tune as the verse. Roud 3486.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 08:42 PM

ISOPAT2   BURD ISOBEL AND SIR PATRICK B   Child #257B, Roud 107. The text is from Peter Buchan's Ancient Ballads and Songs of the North of Scotland (1828); the DT just says "from Buchan", which is potentially misleading as Buchan is also a place-name. Peter Buchan gives no tune, but Christie (Traditional Ballad Airs (vol.II, 1881) has a two-strain melody, noted from an old lady called "Jenny Meesic", who he says sang more-or-less the same words to it. Of his source, Christie notes elsewhere "[She was an old woman from] Buckie, (Enzie, Banffshire,) from whose singing [I] arranged a great number of old Airs and Ballads. She died in 1866 at the age of nearly 80 years. Her father, long resident in Buckie, where fishermen and labourers have "tee-names" had the sobriquet "Meesic" (Music) given to him in the end of the last century by the populace, thus indicating his fame as a ballad-singer."

Christie's second strains are sometimes suspect, but I give it as printed, though with the grace-notes removed for the sake of clarity. It fits a little oddly to the text, so I have set verses 5 and 6 to it so as to avoid having to break notes.

For some reason, the DT entry is titled Burd Isobel and Sir Patrick instead of Burd Isbel and Sir Patrick as given in both Buchan and Child.

QTNMOURN   THE QUEENSTOWN MOURNER  The DT file was taken from Helen Hartness Flanders and George Brown's Vermont Folk-songs and Ballads; it is a transcription of an unspecified broadside ("of early date", whatever that means) and no tune is mentioned.  Steve Roud's folksong index has no references to any printed music for this one, though he lists sound recordings of traditional versions -under a variety of titles- in the Edith Fowke collection (Canada) and the Library of Congress (made by Flanders and Lomax).  Having said all that, Flanders and Brown precede the song with another, this time from tradition, In the Township of Danville, which is evidently a shortened version of the broadside.  Short of anybody being in a position to get at the archive recordings, the tune that came with it is the closest we are likely to get for the broadside text.  Obviously, that text may never have been sung to that tune, but with that caveat I think it's worth making a midi.  So as not to create a false impression, I have posted the text that came with it in a thread of its own:

In the Township of Danville

This is the "Danville" midi that was unexplained in the file I sent you, Leo.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 04 Nov 02 - 10:41 AM

Thanks Malcolm - BTW - if you are shipping me these files I haven't gotten anything that you've posted since (and including) the sixth. How do you want to do this? Bundle them once a month, or what?


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Nov 02 - 02:12 PM

It's easier for me to keep track of if I send you largish batches from time to time. I haven't sent anything since those four that had got left out earlier. Some more notes:

CALONLN   CALON LIN  This file contains two translations into English of the Welsh song Calon Lân. I don't know why the title has been mis-spelled, but Snuffy posted Welsh text and tune at: Lyr/Tune Add: CALON LÂN.

DEIRDLAM   DEIRDRE'S LAMENTATION  Bruce posted a tune that may belong to this in the same thread from which the text was harvested: Deirdre's Lamentation for the Sons of Usnoth.  I don't know how the words would fit to it, though, as the text is supposed to be a translation into English from an Irish Gaelic original, and the tune is a pipe version from P. O'Farrell's Pocket Companion for the Irish or Union Pipes .

BUCKWATR   BUCK O' KINGWATTER  The tune prescribed for this song is The Breckans O' Branton. Midi made from notation of the pipe tune in Bruce and Stokoe's Northumbrian Minstrelsy, 1882, where it is called The Green Brechans o' Branton. It has been necessary to split several notes in order to accommodate the lyric.

DICKOCOW   DICK O' THE COW  Child 185, Roud 4012. The DT text is Child Aa, from the Percy Papers, 1775; while the tune belongs to Ac, (Alexander Campell's Albyn's Anthology, 1818) which, with Ab (Caw's Poetical Museum, 1784) is quoted only where it is variant. Midi made from notation in Bronson. The tune was noted from the singing of Robert Shortreed of Liddesdale, in 1816. His refrain is longer than that in the DT file. Bronson comments, "...as printed in a, it may probably only be intended as a short indication of kind and position - this would accord with the accurate transcription of c."

I have embedded the (c) lyric for the first verse in the midi rather than that quoted in the DT. It runs:

Now Liddesdale has layen lang in,
Fa de ral, lal de ral, la de ral, la lal de:
There is nae rideing there at a';
Fa de ral, lal de ral, la de ral, la dal de:
Their horses are grown sae lither fat,
They downa stir out o' the sta.
Lal lal de ridle la di, fal lal de ridle la di,
Fal lal di lal la, fal lal di ridle la.

To avoid splitting notes, There is in line 3 has been shortened to There's.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 04 Nov 02 - 02:28 PM

no problem Malcolm - just wondered if my e-mail has gone south again.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Nov 02 - 08:28 PM

DRIMNDOO   DRIMMENDOO  The DT file was copied from the Max Hunter Collection, where a midi is available: Drimmendoo As sung by Fred Smith, Bentonville, Arkansas on June 23, 1958.

FANPOWER   FANNY POWER   Wrong title, wrong author credited, wrong tune prescribed. This song has nothing whatsoever to do with the extremely well-known and hackneyed Carolan tune so often described nowadays, anachronistically, as a "Celtic" waltz. Someone has, through ignorance or lack of judgement, grafted the latter onto the former at some point, changing the title of the song and the name of the heroine; and the person who posted the song here (twice) has innocently believed, and promulgated, the misinformation they were handed. I've revived the thread where it was posted (back in 1999), adding the correct information, tune, and text as intended by the man who wrote it.  Lyr Add: Fanny Power


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 09:49 PM

FOXOUT3   THE FALSE FOX  14th or 15th century lyric: no surviving music.

FOGGDEW6   FOGGY, FOGGY DEW   The DT file has been given an anachronistic title. This is presumably intended to emphasise the fact that it belongs to the English Foggy Dew family, but I can't help feeling that it was a mistake; akin, for example, to filing Lord Franklin as Bob Dylan's Dream. The proper title is The Fright'ned Yorkshire Damosel, Or, Fear Dispers'd by Pleasure. The tune specified in the broadside from which it was taken was I met with a Country Lass, which has not survived under that name; however, Claude M. Simpson (The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music, 1966) points out that it may be an alternate title for Aye, Marry, and Thank You Too; of which he prints two examples, one from Youth's Delight on the Flageolet (9th edn., c.1690) and another, rather smoother, from the ballad-opera Robin Hood (1730). I've made a midi from the former, which is closer in date to the broadside. The usual caveat: this is a guess only, though an educated one .

DOCTOR4   THE FOUR ABLE PHYSICANS   No source for this is credited beyond a record by Oscar Brand. It was almost certainly taken by Brand from Thomas D'Urfey's Pills to Purge Melancholy (edition of 1719-20), where it appeared as The Tunbridge Doctors. The set there is considerably longer and, since there are also some minor errors in the DT file, I may as well post the whole thing: The Tunbridge Doctors.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 08:25 PM

TWABONN3   PRINCE CHARLES AND FLORA MACDONALD'S WELCOME TO SKY   This was posted by Bruce Olson, who also provided abcs for no less than three versions of the tune, so it's a bit of a puzzle that there's no tune with the DT file. The text and tunes are at Prince Charles and Flora Maacdonald's Welcome to Sky.. The first is the one to go for.

RESTODAY   THE REST OF THE DAY   Roud 1485. This is effectively a duplicate of  THE REST OF THE DAY'S YOUR OWN,  which has the tune. There are a few very trivial differences of wording, not sufficient to bother with. Really, this one ought to be deleted.

OXPLOW   OX-PLOUGH SONG   Described in the DT as "sung by Johnny Collins". His traditional source is not credited; it was, however, noted by Fred Hamer from Frank Rowe in Cornwall (no date, but roughly mid-20th century, and with no hyphenation. A few trivial changes have been made to the traditional lyric; the only one worth mentioning is in the chorus, which should have whoop along instead of walk along and move along. The former is the traditional phrase used; the latter are mis-hearings from Revival performer[s]. Midi made from Hamer's notation in Garners Gay (EFDS Publications, 1977). Hamer commented

"Several people in East Cornwall gave me this song, usually in fragmentary form, but this full version is from Frank Rowe who, though confined to a wheelchair, contrives to be one of the most cheerful and adventurous men in the parish - or rather two parishes, for the boundary cuts his cottage in two. This ancient song, from the days when oxen were used at the plough, can almost be said to belong to his family."

There is another set in the DT,  THE OXEN PLOUGHING,  this time copied from Roy Palmer's Everyman's Book of English Country Songs (not English Country Songbook, as stated): this originally appeared in Sabine Baring Gould's Songs of the West, having been noted from Adam Landry, Cornwall, in 1895. There is a verse missing:

For it's, O my little ploughboy
Come awaken in the morn,
When the cock upon the dunghill
Is a-blowing of his horn.
Soon the sun above Brown Willy,
With his golden face will show;
Therefore hasten to the linney
Yoke the oxen to the plough.

Palmer evidently intended to include that verse, as his notes explain what "Brown Willy" is (the highest hill in Cornwall); the verse seems to have been omitted by accident.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 09:56 PM

GEORDBLK   GEORDIE BLACK  According to A.L. Lloyd (Come All You Bold Miners, revised edition, 1978) this was written by the Gateshead comedian Rowland Harrison in 1872. Although the lyric has been posted here twice, on neither occasion was Harrison credited. Midi made from notation given by Lloyd; the song was noted from Peter Elliott, Birtley, County Durham, 31 July 1963.

The "Gyuss" (one syllable) is the Goose Pit, near Holmside. The "Betty" is the nickname of a pit near Birtley.

GRNBROM3   GREEN BROOMS (3)  A midi I made from notation in Peter Kennedy's Folksongs of Britain and Ireland (the source of this text) can be got via this earlier discussion: Brooms, Green Brooms. Text and tune came from Sean McDonagh, Carna, Co. Galway, Ireland; noted by Seamus Ennis and Alan Lomax in 1951. The midi is marked as harvested, and seems to have been left out of the new DT by accident.

HANDPWR   HANDLOOM V. POWERLOOM  From Harry Boardman's Folk Songs and Ballads of Lancashire (1973). I don't have that book, but Karl Dallas gave the tune that Boardman set to the text written by "Common" John Grimshaw of Gorton, near Manchester (round the beginning of the 19th century). Midi made from notation in Dallas' book, One Hundred Songs of Toil, 1974.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 01:18 PM

DCOWPER   DONALD COWPER AND HIS MAN  The DT text is from David Herd's Ancient and Modern Scottish Songs (1776) and was reproduced with music in Chambers' Songs of Scotland Prior to Burns (1862). Unless someone has access to that, we are going to have to make do with the set from Johnson's Scots Musical Museum (vol.IV, 1792, song no.334), where it is printed as Donald Couper. As was common at the time, the chorus music was given first; I have (reluctantly) reversed the order of the parts to conform to the DT arrangement, but I have not fitted the tune to the DT text: I have retained the slightly different SMM lyric, which is as follows:

O Donald Cowper and his man
Held to a Highland fair, man,
And a' to seek a bonnie lass,
But fient a ane was there, man.

Chorus:
Hey Donald, how Donald,
Hey Donald Couper;
He's gane awa' to seek a wife,
And he's come hame without her.

At length he got a Carlin gray,
And she's come hirpling hame, man;
And she's fa'n o'er the buffet stool,
And brak her rumple-bane, man.

ERLKING   THE ERL-KING  This is a rather unimpressive adaptation -judging from the text- of Goethe's poem, by Steve Gillette. Whoever added it gave no indication as to which of several tunes might have been used for it; or whether, indeed, Gillette had set it to yet another of his own. Here are some options:

Erlkoenig (transcribed for piano by Franz Liszt)
Erlkönig: Johann Fr. Reichardt 1752-1814

There is also a setting by Carl Loewe, but I haven't found a midi of that. Likely enough the tune is none of those, anyway. It seems to be on more than one of Gillette's records, and some sort of notation appears in his book The Steve Gillette Songbook.

Somebody round here must have a copy of it.

GERRYOWN   GERRY OWENS (Sargent Flynn)  Although listed "missing", this one does have a midi. Well, it says it does, but BAWNOG.MID, also the tune for BRIAN OG AND MOLLY BAWN) can't be found on the server. Never mind; it can be retrieved from the new download version. The text was taken from the Max Hunter Collection, where you can also get a midi for it: be warned, though, that one's pretty ghastly...

GARYOWE2   GARY OWEN   This is exactly the same as the foregoing, except that there are a few, very minor differences in wording and the verses are in a different order. NB. Neither of these is sung to the well-known tune Garryowen.

HIDEWILL   HIDE WILLIE HIDE   A modern parody, set to the tune A. L. Lloyd used (and perhaps wrote) for his update of  THE TWO MAGICIANS, where the tune can be found. The less said about the DT text of The Two Magicians the better, perhaps; the parts that actually come from Lloyd contain several glaring mistakes, and someone has grafted on a number of rather poor home-made verses, with no information whatever as to where they came from. At the very least, there should be some indication of which are Lloyd's verses (Anglicised from the Scottish text in Child for the most part) and which are not. It has been clear in previous discussions of the song that people come across such verses tacked on to traditional material and think that they have discovered a genuine traditional variant; we really should not be confusing them in this way.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 01:35 PM

Thank Malcolm!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 11:18 AM

DUNKIRK   DUNKIRK   I think that MMario has this, and sent a midi to John which doesn't seem to have reached the midi pages. See thread Lyr/Chords Add: DUNKIRK, which also contains some fanciful speculation on the meaning of fain', which I am pretty certain is simply a typo for facin'; if I ever find my tape of the song again, I'll know for sure. The writer's name is also mis-spelt there and in the DT file: it is Zeta, not Zetta. I'm not at all sure that she shouldn't be Zeta MacDonald rather than Zeta St. Clair, but I can't swear to it.

DYINPILT   DYING PILOT  The file has a midi link, but the midi (DYINHOBO).MID) doesn't seem to exist. According to Dick, it's the same tune as DYING HOBO where a tune is not given either. According to Snuffy (Tune Add Part II) both these songs use the same tune as A SOLDIER FROM MISSOURI, as does THE LITTLE STREAM OF WHISKEY (THE DYIN' HOBO)

Soldier From Missouri does actually have a tune file. Now, I don't know any of these songs, so I'm just pointing out the convoluted cross-references, and will say nothing at all about Bingen on the Rhine or Kevin Barry or Shall My Soul Pass Through Old Ireland. Over to you!

ERLINTON   ERLINGTON  CHILD 8D; Roud 24. Bronson has no tune for any version of this song, and none are listed in the Roud Index. Unless one turns up when the Carpenter collection is published, that it probably an end of it.

BEAUREY2   A FOX HUNTIN'  This is taken from the Max Hunter Collection, where there is a midi (their copyright, of course): A Fox Huntin'

GLWYCITY   GALWAY CITY  At Mudcat Midis.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 09:53 PM

4149 FLYCOCK4   WESTRON WYND (3)   The text was quoted from James Reeves, The Everlasting Circle, Heinemann, 1960. It was noted by H.E.D. Hammond from Farmer Mills at Knowle Farm, Beaminster, Dorset. Date unknown, but around 1905-7 as like as not. Verse 4 was completed from a set noted by Hammond from Robert Barratt, Piddletown, Dorset, in 1905, Hammond having noted only the first line followed by "etc". This is unlikely to have been an attempt at "bowdlerisation", as one of several people whose conversation is quoted in the file suggested (I can't find the original thread at present, so can't check identities); more likely he just didn't bother writing it down because it was identical to the verse in the other set.

We have one of those perennial difficulties over titles, here. Hammond published Barratt's set in The Journal of the Folk Song Society (vol. VIII, issue 34, 1930) as Oh, Once I Loved a Lass, while Reeves re-named both texts The Grey Cock. Joan Brocklebank and Biddie Kindersley (A Dorset Book of Folk Songs, EFDSS, 1948) printed Barratt's set as O Once I Loved a Lass, and Frank Purslow (Marrowbones, EFDSS, 1965) printed a text collated from both sets, and set to Barratt's tune, as The Light of the Moon. It seems a little perverse to re-name it Westron Wynd at this late date, even if there is a connection (by no means certain) between it and the famous fragment. Presumably, Farmer Mills' text was only quoted because of this perceived connection; so far as I know, his tune has never been published.

Midi made, then, from Robert Barratt's set, which is the closest we can get without referring to Hammond's MSS. I have used the notation given by Purslow, since he used some of Mills' text (including the first verse) and has modified the tune a bit to accomodate the different line lengths. It should be noted that this is a compromise tune, and not the one actually used by Mills; nor, strictly, is it, any more, Barratt's tune; though made from it.

Roud 179, Child 248.

4201 ERICHDAU   WILLIE AND EARL RICHARD'S DAUGHTER   Child 102A. Originally printed in Jamieson, Popular Songs and Ballads from Tradition, 1806. From Mrs. Anna Brown of Falkland. The tune for this version was not noted.

4202 ERICHDAU   WILLIE AND EARL RICHARD'S DAUGHTER (A)   Child 102A: this file is a duplicate of the above, and should be deleted.

4203 ERICDAU2   WILLIE AND EARL RICHARD'S DAUGHTER (BIRTH OF ROBIN HOOD)   Child 102B: originally printed in Peter Buchan, Ancient Ballads and Songs of the North of Scotland, 1828. Buchan printed text only, but Dean Christie, Traditional Ballad Airs, vol. I, 1876, gives a tune, saying: "This Air is arranged from the way it was sung by the Editor's maternal grandfather to The Birth of Robin Hood. The words he sung to the air were somewhat, so far as the Editor can remember, like those given by Buchan II 1. Some slight alterations are here made on Mr. Buchan's version from the way the Editor heard the ballad sung."

Midi made from Christie's notation, then, with the trills and gracenotes omitted. This is not ideal, but is necessary in this case to prevent the midi from becoming too cluttered. So as not to misrepresent the tune too much, though, I append it here in abc, with all the decorations intact and the uneven triplets given as written (in the midi I have had to fudge them). Most abc programs appear incapable of translating the notation precisely, however; I have given the notation as best I can according to my incomplete understanding of abc standards, which don't appear to have been developed sufficiently -so far- to express many of the normal, but less often used, forms of staff notation. If anybody can work out how to do it more successfully, please do! If anyone would like a scan of Christie's staff, I'll be happy to oblige.

X:1
T:The Birth of Robin Hood
T:Willie and Earl Richard's Daughter
B:Christie, Traditional Ballad Airs, vol.I 1876.
N:Child 102B, Roud 3910.
N:The ~ symbol should be read as a trill.
N:The double gracenotes indicated in bars 4,8,12 and 16 should be tied to the preceding note in each case. The latter 3 may not be displayed by many abc programs.
L:1/8
Q:1/4=100
M:3/4
K:F
G3/2A/|((3B3/2c/d) d2 ((3cd)f|{d}c3/2G/ G2 {A}G3/2F/|Bd ~d2 {cd}f3/2A/|
w:Mo-ny ane__ talks o'_ the grass, the grass, And_ mo-ny ane o' the
{A}G4 (G3/2A/)|{A}c3/2A/ {A}G2 (F3/2G/)|{B}AG/F/ {F}D2 (C3/2D/)|
w:corn; And_ mo-ny talk o'_ gude Ro-bin Hood, That_
FA ~G2 {FG}((3AG)F|{F}D4 (C3/2D/)|FA G2 (F3/2G/)|
w:ken-na whare he_ was born. His_ fa-ther was the_
{B}A(G/F/) {F}D2 (C3/2D/)|FA ~A2 {GA}(c3/2A/)|{A}G4 (G3/2A/)|
w:earl's own_ steward, Sprung_ frae sma' pe-di-*gree; His_
(3B3/2c/d d2 {d}c3/2B/|(B/A/)(G/F/) {F}D2 C3/2D/|FA {A}~G2 {FG}((3AGF)|{F}D4|]
w:mo-ther, Earl Hunt-ing-don's ae_ daugh-*ter, For he had nane else but__ she.

Christie sets verses 1 and 3 of Buchan's text (slightly changed) to the two-part tune; I follow his text. Anybody who can't work out how to fit it to the DT text probably has no business trying to sing it!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Felipa
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 06:16 PM

With Kitty I'd Go for a Ramble, tune is at Kitty's Rambles' threads


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST,Gorgeous Gary
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 08:25 PM

I have a 933KB MP3 of "Beans Taste Fine" I can e-mail to one of the expert transcribers out there. It may be a challenge; I believe the verse is more recitation than song.

-- Gary


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:15 AM

Some more bits and pieces. Not as helpful or clear-cut as I'd like, but a few steps forward...


1225 TARWATH2  FAREWELL TO TARWAITHIE (2)
This is the original poem (unfortunately, with the title mis-spelt) by George Scroggins, published 1857, that was later set to the popular Green Bushes tune. Strictly, it has no tune; but can of course be sung to Green Bushes, which is included (as TARWATHI.MID) with the other DT entry, FAREWELL TO TARWATHIE. This latter is presumably a transcription from a Judy Collins record; in a past discussion here, Tarwathie, it is shown that Collins learned the song from Sandy Paton, who had it from Ewan MacColl, who had it from A. L. Lloyd, who had it from "John Sinclair, a native of Ballater, in Durban, South Africa, 1938". That set was published in MacColl and Seeger's The Singing Island (1960) and the DT midi is not too far from it. One for a cross-reference; and perhaps some incorporation of background information from the Forum. Roud 2562.

1188 FAITHJON  FAITHFUL JOHNNY.
An obscure American act called "The Pratie Heads" are implicated here, but Jean Redpath is also mentioned (they probably learned it off her recording). She got the song from the Dransfield brothers, who got it from Johnny Handle (John Pandritch), who reportedly got it from an old school songbook, The Merry Piper Song Book for Schools. Midi made from notation in another (not so old) school songbook, Sing Together! 100 Songs for Unison Singing, William Appleby and Frederick Fowler, OUP 1967. Thread 'Faithful Johnny' contains authorship and background information, and some additional verses. Either the tune has changed rather rapidly, or it isn't the same one at all (which is possible; see thread) but this is at least a (moderately) documented alternative. Could do with a midi transcribed from the Redpath or Dransfield records too, really; or even from the Beethoven arrangement!

103 AMPHITRI  THE ANFORD-WRIGHT
From Cox, Folk-Songs of the South. No tune was noted and this appears to be the only example found in tradition of an English broadside ballad,  Loss of the Amphitrite. Roy Palmer, Boxing the Compass, 2001, p. 206, gives details of the event of 1833 which inspired the piece.

No traditional tune known for this one, then (it may never have any one tune associated with it in any case); though the metre is standard and somebody wanting to sing it might try Van Diemen's Land or Lazarus/Come All Ye Worthy Christian Men, for example. Another suitable tune would be Rounding the Horn, which also mentions an Amphitrite, though not necessarily the same one (although Roud does classify it, too, under number 301).


147 ASHLANDM  THE ASHLAND TRAGEDY
Again from Cox, with no tune. Roud 2263.

148 ASHLAND2  THE ASHLAND TRAGEDY II
Another song about the same event, also published without tune.

There is yet a third song here,  THE ASHLAND TRAGEDY III  This time with tune; but all three appear to be unrelated. Roud lists only one further example with a tune: Library of Congress recording 2825 A1, Joe Hubbard, Hamiltown, Virginia, 1938, rec. Hebert Halpert. Discovering which, if any, of these songs it might be would depend on somebody going there and listening to it, presumably.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:24 AM

Thank you as usual Malcolm.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 12:06 PM

I don't think these have been signed off yet, but I may have missed it:

1424 GNTLANN  GENTLE ANNIE  Stephen C. Foster.
1425 GENTLAN2  GENTLE ANNIE 2  Australian re-write of the Foster song.

Tunes(s) posted at:

Tune Add: Missing tunes wanted: (120* d)  Added by Sorcha, who had been told that the tune was originally Irish. As Phillipa pointed out elsewhere, that probably isn't the case; it appears that someone has set a poem in Irish Gaelic to Foster's tune, and that people have assumed subsequently that it must have been Irish all along.

NEW MUS: Gentle Annie  Posted by John in Brisbane.

Full sheet music is available at Levy.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 12:11 PM

I *had* missed those - Thanks again!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 01:41 PM

1463 CALICODR  GIRL WITH A CALICO DRESS  By J. H. Tenney. Sheet music at American Memory (Library of Congress):

Girl with a Calico Dress.


1650 HASHSCOR  HASH MY FATHER SCORED  This is a duplicate of  THE HASH MY FATHER SCORED, and should probably be deleted. The tune is, of course, The Sash My Father Wore; there is a link to a midi in the latter file.   


1734 HLLGRENM  THE HILLS OF GREENMORE
The S. Span/Terry Woods recording. Pretty well the same tune as the one posted by Belfast for the Gaughan recording,  Granemore Hare. A cross-reference should do. The third DT text, 1735 HILLGRE2  HILLS OF GREENMORE (2), was transcribed from a Dervish record and I can't at the moment recall whether or not they used the same tune.


1940 HARLMDOV  I'VE BEEN TO HARLEM
An American variant of an English drinking game. No source named in the DT file, but the text is very close to a (presumably) well-known set which was used on the BBC Schools radio programme Singing Together back in the 1960s. Midi made from notation in Sing Together! 100 Songs for Unison Singing, William Appleby and Frederick Fowler, OUP 1967, where it appeared as Turn the Glasses Over. No source is named there, either; it's described simply as "American Singing Game". The text was as follows:

I've been to Harlem, I've been to Dover,
I've traveled this wide world all over,
Over, over, three times over,
Drink what you have to drink and turn the glasses over.
Sailing east, sailing west
Sailing over the ocean,
Better watch out when the boat begins to rock,
Or you'll lose your girl in the ocean.

I've set the DT words to the tune, though. In two places, with modifications to make it fit: in line six, o'er has been changed to over to give it the required two syllables, and in bar 12 the second half-note has been split into a dotted quarter and an eighth, with the latter lowered from A to G (the pitch of the following two eighths) to accommodate the additional You'd in line 7.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 01:46 PM

noted!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: OldPossum
Date: 22 May 03 - 03:18 PM

Phil Ochs song tunes posted so far:

Outside Of A Small Circle Of Friends is the song in the DT to which that last tune (filename[ CRCLFRND) belongs. Note that Small Circle Of Friends (filename[ CIRCFRND) is a duplicate entry. That last one may be deleted since the first is of a higher quality.

More Phil Ochs tunes coming soon to a thread near here! (but I have some catching up to do first)


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 22 May 03 - 03:30 PM

Thank you sir!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 May 03 - 11:44 PM

280 HARTHACN  BATTLE OF LARGS (Hardyknute) This is the same as HARDYKNUTE (BATTLE OF LARGS). Lesley Nelson originally posted just the 3 verses given in Songs of Scotland vol II (presumably the Myles Foster book; the date Lesley quotes is for vol. I, edited by Pitman and Brown, which was some years earlier, I think). Subsequently she added further verses from the Scots Musical Museum. See thread LYR & MUS ADD: Hurdyknute - what date?, where Lesley posted miditext and abc for the tune as printed in SOS, and Bruce also posted abcs from SMM and two others. The SOS tune is identical to SMM apart from slightly different gracenotes in two places and was likely adapted from it.

The texts in both DT files are identical, but different extracts from the original thread have been copied into each. Notes in BATTLE OF LARGS (Hardyknute) are vague and not terribly coherent or helpful; this would be the redundant file, then, and an obvious candidate for deletion. The midi at Mudcat Midis was generated by nwc and as usual note-values are set incorrectly for other midi editors, but the midi it was edited from (Lesley's; the arrangement is that from SOS, and source ought to be indicated at the midi pages) is nearly ok, though for some reason she has altered the barring and transposed the tune down three steps without indicating the appropriate new key signature.

You might have been better off with the abc Bruce supplied, but there is a mistake in it. I'll add a standard-format midi from the notation in SMM with the next batch.


359 ERICDAU3  BIRTH OF ROBIN HOOD (C)

This is a duplicate of  BIRTH OF ROBIN HOOD C

Text from the Kinloch MSS, V, 330 f. No tune was noted. Both files fail to mention Child's rather important note: "the last two stanzas of Douglass Dale". The Kinloch text of Douglass Dale (Child 101, Willie o Douglas Dale) had those two verses stuck on the end. That version (Child 101C) has no tune, but two others are known. Both are in Bronson. I sent in a midi for the text in the DT (Willy o' Douglas Dale from Mrs Brown of Falkland, though the source information hasn't been added to the online DT) nearly 3 years ago, but it's not at the old or new Midi pages so far as I can see.


1521 GOODLUCK  THE GOOD LUCK SHIP. Text from a Peter Bellamy record. Peter learned the song from Harry Cox of Catfield, Norfolk; it's a relative of  THE ROYAL OAK (Roud 951). Midi made from notation in The Journal of the English Folk Dance and Song Society, vol V (no.1) 1946, p.20 (noted by Francis M. Collinson, 1945/6).


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: OldPossum
Date: 31 May 03 - 09:30 AM

The last of the Phil Ochs song tunes:


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 31 May 03 - 09:37 AM

A reminder that the mudcat midi pages are a temporary site; and are ONLY to make the midi's available until they are in the DT; much information etc is submitted to the DT in addition to what is on the midi page.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 31 May 03 - 11:11 AM

Temporary or not, they are a very important resource and really ought to be flagged prominently on the main page rather than hidden away in a drop-down list. Additionally, there are quite a lot of tunes there which belong to songs posted in threads, some of which will probably never make it into the DT; so the temporary measure will likely need to remain in place for as long as the Forum does.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: OldPossum
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 02:30 PM

TAM LIN (filename[ TAMLIN2) in the Digital Tradition has a tune already, and a very nice one too, but since the comment says "Recorded by Fairport Convention on Liege & Lief", I thought I would post the tune which is actually used by Fairport Convention. It is posted here.

I don't know the source for the existing tunefile. I have searched all over the Forum, but didn't find anything about it's source. Does anyone know? The tune I posted has "Traditional arrangement by Dave Swarbrick" written on it, so I guess it must be traditional.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: OldPossum
Date: 05 Jul 03 - 07:53 AM

I CAN SAIL (filename[ CANSAIL2) tune posted here. This is actually a song in the Swedish language, so I would suggest renaming the title of the DT entry to the Swedish "Vem kan segla". It is perhaps a bit misleading to have an English title to a Swedish song.

There is an error in line 2 of the first verse. It should read:

vem kan skiljas fraan vaennen sin utan att faella taarar.

aa represents the letter å - the DT file probably got it wrong during the character conversion.

This tune also covers WHO CAN SAIL (filename[ CANSAIL). This is an English translation of the above song, and I don't think it was meant to be a singable translation, since it doesn't scan very well. I sure wouldn't like to try aligning the lyrics to the tune! Actually the DT editor(s) might consider incorporating WHO CAN SAIL in the notes to I CAN SAIL and so have the translation in the same file as the Swedish original. Anyway WHO CAN SAIL can be covered with a cross-reference to this tune.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: OldPossum
Date: 09 Jul 03 - 01:35 PM

The tune to The Calico Printer's Clark (Clerk) (filename[ CALPRINT) was posted in this thread.


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 10 Jul 03 - 08:47 AM

Thanks Again Old Possum!


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: OldPossum
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 03:40 PM

I found two more tunes in an old thread:

LULLABY filename[ LULLABY posted here

THE BEGGARMAN (6) filename[ BEGGAR6 posted here


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: Missing DT tunes - Part NINE
From: MMario
Date: 31 Oct 04 - 03:56 PM

thank you Mr. Old Possum Sir! I will update the main thread and the lists when I get onto a computer that doesn't take 20 minutes to download it! *grin*
    Thread closed temporarily because it's been a target for a heavy barrage of Spam. If you have something to add to the discussion, contact me and I'll reopen it.
    -Joe Offer-


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