BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A

Subject: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 09:25 PM

'Allo all; I did try to post this on the Annexe, but it seems to be down just now. Sorry for the OT thing but I have called the Dr. twice and his advice is not working too well........

Daughter Kate, age 17, had her tonsils out yesterday. She did quite well (too well!) yesterday in hospital but she has not kept anything down for over 24 hrs.......pushing 36 now. I have taken her off ALL po (by mouth) painkillers.....all were narcotics. Called Dr. and he said "Bring her up". I did, and he gave her a Demerol/atropine injection.......should have stopped the vomiting, but it didn't. She is awake now (after the injection) and still vomiting.

She has not kept anything (liquid, meds, food) down for almost 36 hrs. Does anybody have any suggestions at all??? If we can't find a solution, she will have to go back to hosp. and have an IV to re-hydrate and feed her........

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: DonMeixner
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 09:28 PM

PM Mark Cohen

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 09:33 PM

or just take her back to the hospital. Some people don't react well to the effects of anathesia and/or there well might be another problem......and dehydration can be a major problem in itself and keep other things from working. I'd go back Sorch.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 09:38 PM

She has always had a problem with any painkiller, and Dr. knows this, but never with the anesthetic itsself. Thanks, guys, I may just have to do that.

(Of course, her father is not here and not available to help out--he is out driving Driver Ed students......he could be 200 miles away right now.)

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 09:57 PM

Taking her back would probably be best, Sorcha. If it is nausea which is causing most of the problem, some coke syrup over cracked ice might help, in small, small sips. Also, see if she can suck on ice chips, but she's already gone quite a long while, by the sounds of it, and dehydration continue to make it worse. Good luck,

kat

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:01 PM

Okay, Sorch... Calm down. Go to the grocery store and get some ginger root. Cut a sliver about the size of a dime and have her put it between her cheek and gum. May take 2 applications but the nasuea will leave. Guarenteed.... Just thin sliver about 1/16th inch thick.... It works, fir real.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:03 PM

I agree...take her to the hospital..this is serious.

But if it were ordinary nausea, from seasickness say, they say ginger does relieve it very well...either candied ginger, ginger tea..ginger ale if made with real ginger..a very diluted peppermint or chamomile tea might help in normal circumstances too...

mg

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:06 PM

Tried Coke, kat, and Sprite,Pepsi,7-Up and ginger ale, too. Thanks. If she still can't keep anything down by daylight, I will taker her back. I'll give her another 12 hrs. She says she is not thirsty, just hungry. (All I ever wanted was a little baby to love, and look what They did to me.........grin) I am pretty sure it is an intolerance to the pain meds (and all true narcotics).........Dr. originally said NO asprin, Tylenol, Ibu, etc. but now he is saying try that for pain. She is not bleeding at all, and only lost 75 cc's of blood during the surgery.

If she was a horse, we would have shot her long ago.......

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:09 PM

One of the things I learned one year when my whole family came down with the worst stomach virus we'd ever seen (I dubbed it "The Plague") was that, once dehydrated to a certain degree, nausea is *exceptionally* hard to shake. It's a self perpetuating thing at that point.

More than 3 liters later on an IV drip, and I did not have to vomit any longer. I'd say the best thing for her would be some fluids. If it has to come via drip, so be it. But 36 hours and no fluids to speak of is a major concern.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:11 PM

Sorcha, some water gets absorbed even if she throws up. Try slow sips of water. VERY slow. Your call as to how serious it is, but if they give her the IV, she may feel a lot better in a hurry.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:11 PM

Jeeze, ginger isn't working either. I think she will have to get all the narcotics out her her system and that will take about 12 hrs. I have candied ginger, but it is HOT and she doesn't do HOT well at all. Besides, the ginger ale didn't help either.

I am just so exhausted after 2 days without sleep that I can't think or drive, or whatever. Nobody is here but Kate and me............she has at least had the narcotic induced sleep. Not me. Bugger all.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:20 PM

Jeri said what I was trying to say....Dehydration may be making everything else worse. Get ahold of someone and get her in now Sorcha.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:45 PM

I agree, take her in.

Just to clarify, though, it is coke syrup which works well for nausea, over cracked ice; no carbonation, etc. The dentists used to prescribed it for people who had their wisdom teeth pulled and were nauseous.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:44 AM

Poor you both... do you have ginger preserve at all? There are a few brands made here in the UK, it's basically ginger jam (jelly) or marmalade and it's just right for easing down dodgy stomachs. Sugar for energy, ginger in a mild dose for the nausea.

Another suggestion - take the fizz out of the ginger ale by adding a spoonful of sugar, or just leave it to go flat. The fizz may be making it worse.

But please, dehydration is a nasty, evil thing to have, it will cause all manner of problems, take her in..

And make sure that you don't go the same way, keep drinking yourself, you will be no use to anyone at all, least of all her if you keel over as well!!

Thinking of you,

take care,

LTS

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 12:47 AM

Not much to add here. I hope by now you've gotten her back to the hospital and they've given her some IV fluids. Not to "feed" her, but to rehydrate. An average person needs between 2.5 and 3 liters of water a day just to keep up with normal body processes and insensible water loss through the skin and lungs (more if you're sweating, exercising, febrile, etc.) While adults don't get dehydrated as easily as little babies do, it can happen, especially if she's like most people, who barely drink enough water as it is.

Juices and sodas have less water per volume than a plain glass of water, and caffeine- or alcohol-containing beverages can cause you to lose more water than you've taken in. Most people are lucky there's water in food, otherwise a lot more of us would be dehydrated! (Weight loss tip: drink a big glass of water before every meal. Many people eat because they're thirsty.)

All that aside, Sorch, I hope you're reading this after bringing your daughter back from the hospital and that she's feeling better after she's "tanked up" with a couple of liters of IV fluids. There are lots of reasons for post-op nausea, and that's outside my area of expertise. If this ever happens again--or if it happens to someone else--and the standard stuff doesn't seem to be working, it might help to call the anesthesiologist who's on call at the hospital. They have lots of ways to deal with it. But as has been mentioned already, hydration is important.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Morticia
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:12 AM

not much to add, although some of the oral rehydration treatments can be very effective,Dioralyte is sold over the counter here and works really well, flat coke works too....just feeling worried for both of you and waiting for news.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 10:10 AM

BOIL 7-Up, it contains all the salts and stuff you need. And getting rid of the fizz helps somehow. This was recommended instead of Pedialyte by docs in other countries... hope she's OK, Willie suffered greatly too, I feel for you!

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:01 AM

Oh wow, I was offline and missed all of this-- what's happening now?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:20 AM

OK, I am awake finally. I called an RN friend of mine last night and she came over and checked her out. Said she didn't need to go to hosp. just yet. If she can sleep, she needs to do that and NO liquids overnight.

We did that, and she is still sleeping (9:15 AM here). If she is still vomiting when she wakes, we are going to the hospital! Thanks, friends. I just sort of lost it last night. I seldom do that and I thank you all for being there.

Part of it is her own bloody minded-ness. She says she is hungry but not hungry enough to open her mouth to eat....I'll update when she wakes up this morning.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: MMario
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:48 AM

*phew* Hope YOU have managed to catch up on some sleep too; despite the universal belief that "Moms" don't need sleep, ever get sick, or wear out, we know better.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: wysiwyg
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 01:10 PM

I had a similar experience from an antibiotic I took, that I turned out to be deathly allergic to. It was my whole system, toxic. If she is taking any post-surgical antibiotic that she has never taken before, it could be the culprit. Also, the only position in which I could rest at all was on my right side, trunk and shoulders slightly elevated-- turns the stomach the right way.

Main thing, I think, is see what she thinks she needs-- help her listen to her body. What does she think is wrong, and what would help?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 02:07 PM

Whew! Looks like the 12 hr. NPO did the trick. She has had about 4 sips of ginger ale this morning, over a 1 hr. period, and no vomiting yet. Hope we have it whipped. Dr. gave us sample pills yesterday, supposed to control nausea. Previced.....I just looked it up and it's for acid reflux maintenance and side effects include nausea.........sheesh. I tossed that stuff!

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 02:36 PM

Actually Sorch, you should have kept it.....Works like a champ on GIRD type problems.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 07:13 PM

Crapola. She started vomiting again, so we are back from the hosp. with a liter of Ringers in her, also some phenergan. Hope this stops it.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 07:29 PM

A couple bags of fluid and an anti-nausia supository and she'll have you stopping at Domino's Pizza on the way home. Jus funnin', Sorch... But really, she'll be fine. Keep us posted...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 07:42 PM

I cannot believe they gave you *pills* for someone who cannot even keep water down. Sheesh...

Phenergan can work wonders. Also the liter of IV will make a big diff, I am sure. If it starts again, my suggestion would be to go to *another* hospital (if there is another one within reasonable driving distance). Time for a second opinion, IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 07:49 PM

You might, when she is starting to eat and drink again, or before, with medical permission, check out the liquid in coconuts. It's chock full of good stuff...not the coconut cream or milk..just the clearish liquid.

Very similar to plasma.

mg

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 07:55 PM

Yea, what "other" hospital? Not a chance. Yes, she will be OK, and if she starts it again tomorrow or something, we're going after more Ringers. Temp is over 100, no AC and it doesn't take long to get dehyrated at that temp.

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 08:10 PM

I hear ya there, yes indeed, it's difficult when there is little choice in the matter. I'd say you have a clear and more than good plan there...

Hope you got some sleep yourself. Keep us "posted".

(oh, that was bad)

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 10:58 PM

Acknowledging that I wasn't there and she was, I would tend to disagree with your RN friend. When someone is vomiting it's best to give very small amounts of liquids by mouth. I mean very small...a teaspoon or two at a time, every 5 minutes or so. This fluid will generally not be a large enough volume to trigger the vomiting reflex, and will be absorbed directly from the stomach into the bloodstream. It's almost like giving an IV. 10ml (2 teaspoons) every 5 minutes is 120ml an hour, which is the maintenance fluid requirement for an average-size adult. It's a pain in the butt for both caretaker and patient, but it works. If you can get Pedialyte or another oral rehydration solution, so much the better, but the most important thing is water. (In your friend's defense, NPO -- nothing by mouth -- was standard treatment for a long time, but slow oral hydration is now the preferred form of therapy, at least, as far as I'm aware.)

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:04 PM

Also in your friend's defense, I should mention that teens and adults can tolerate dehydration better than can little babies. As a pediatrician I may be a overly sensitive to that issue. But I think even for adults the slow oral hydration technique is gaining favor. Anyway, I'm glad she's doing better. And if she gets worse again, have her seen by the doctor, don't try to deal with it over the phone--at that point it's gotten out of the "routine" category.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS:NotMusic: Severe Surgery Nausea-T&A
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jun 02 - 11:42 PM

Dr. Mark, we did try the 1 tsp. thing--yesterday 1 tsp. was enough to trigger the vomiting. We repeated the 1 tsp. regimine today, and she was tolerating it well until about 1/4 cup accumulated in her stomach. She seems MUCH better this evening--slept all afternoon, and felt like taking a shower. Her biggest complaint is the awful taste in her mouth. Not much to do about that except wait.