Tune Req: Pancho & Lefty: ?What key,mode...?

Subject: Pancho & Lefty: ?What key,mode...?
From: Socorro
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 03:16 PM

I did a quick search and found lyrics and chords, but my question is: with chords of Am, C,F,&G - does that make it in the key of C with an unusual Am thrown in? I don't think so, because of the "minor feel".

So, I thought, that must be in a mode or something. I am now perusing my voluminous sheets of past Mudcat discussions on modes, but thought i would throw it out and display my ignorance again (one of my favorite - or anyway, most frequent - things to do).

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Pancho & Lefty: ?What key,mode...?
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 03:48 PM

Socorro: I think you were right the first time; it's "in the key of C with an unusual Am thrown in". That A-minor at the end of the chorus gives it the "minor feel" you describe. But if I were about to play it at a jam and were announcing the key I was playing in, I would say "C" and not "A-minor".

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Pancho & Lefty: ?What key,mode...?
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 04:02 PM

There's a Dm in there as well, a normal inclusion in progressions in the key of C. The only thing unusual about the Am is its position at the end of the chorus, but it isn't unheard of and it doesn't change the primary key of the song.

A

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Pancho & Lefty: ?What key,mode...?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 04:27 PM

Actually, finding and Am in the key of C is not that unusual. The chords you have available in the key of C are C, F, and G or G7, and Am, Dm, and Em (sometimes E or E7, depending). The chords are derived from building triads on the C scale, as follows:—

C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim, and C again. Am is the relative minor of C, C is the relative major of Am. Both keys share the same notes, and in a sense, they could almost be regarded as one key. For songs in C, you can often use the relative minor chords to add color, and the same holds for songs in Am. But use them wisely. Too many chords can overpower a song.

This works for all other keys as well. The sequence, going up the major scale, is always:— major, minor, minor, major, major (often with added 7th), minor, diminished, and back to major. For most purposes, you can ignore the diminished chord. The G7 actually contains the Bdim triad inside it.

Modes are kind of a special case, and I won't complicate things by getting into them here.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Pancho & Lefty: ?What key,mode...?
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 04:58 PM

Not necessarily that particular progression but that type of odd chord placement was common of Townes Van Zandt. It also may be what help to make him so unique a songwriter.

Phil Ochs did similar things too.

Don

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Pancho & Lefty: ?What key,mode...?
From: Socorro
Date: 01 Jul 02 - 05:51 PM

Verrrry interesting - thanks everyone.

Subject: Tune Req: pancho and lefty
From: GUEST,rasta
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 02:03 AM

**hI gang ,hope everyone is well ,was curious if anybody knew the kick off for pancho and lefty on guitar ,i think it was origially a piano lick ,but im lookin for the guitar tab , i know the chords. thanx ,be well ,rastaaaaa

Subject: RE: Tune Req: pancho and lefty
From: Scoville
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 12:39 PM

Which version?

It's a Townes Van Zandt song. I don't know if there are tab books available for his stuff (his widow has a website; check there). It's been covered a lot, though, so if it's not his version you want you might have to look it up by recording artist.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: pancho and lefty
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 01:07 PM

Well, Rasta, not sure if I can definitively help you out or not, but here goes:
I learned the song off of an Emmylou Harris record sometime around the end of the Civil War and I play it in C.
To start the song I finger and "Am" chord and strum it with much clarity letting the last note of the strum (the open E string) become the 1st note of the intro.
Then: as smooth as you can do it (while keeping the Am chord fretted) alternate plucking between the "open E" string and the "3rd fret of the B string"
You will end up moving a bit on the "B" string as you pluck the notes in this sequence E-D-E-D-E-D-C-B-C.
Then, after you play the last "C" note "punch" the following chords in order, and, when you get to the "C" chord start your rhythm and get into the song; punch "Am - G - C" in quick succession almost as "grace" chords. I think the Am and G chords are really taking the place of passing notes here but it makes a really nice "fat" sound.
God, I hope this some sense and works for you. I'm not really sure it makes any sense to me, but that's how I play it. Cheers.