BS: American vs British slang

Subject: American vs British slang
From: DonD
Date: 04 Jul 02 - 09:50 PM

My post just now on the 'Australia see the baloon' thread about the difference berween "arse' and 'ass' prompted this thought.

As a reader of lots of British fiction (largely mysteries) I keep coming across bits of English slang that I can understand, but find I can't take seriously.

Do people really say "It's been yonks since ..." and "I know masses of songs" and can I really go into some kind of an eating establishment and order a 'buttie' or a 'sarnie'?

Are there American expressions that Brits and others find equally unlikely?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Jul 02 - 10:14 PM

Don, there have actually been a lot of discussions of this on Mudcat, and there are some semi-serious references available. Try searching on Yahoo for "british american dictionary".

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 04 Jul 02 - 10:41 PM

Haven't had a decent chip butty for yonks, and there's masses of folk round here that'd kill for a good bacon sarnie. Hmmmm.... I see what you mean, but it's probably worth bearing in mind that there is absolutely nothing silly enough that otherwise normal people will adopt for common useage........ and in some cases, the sillier the better. Check out rhyming slang or local dialects and their associated distinctive words for example. These form a kind of code designed to ensure that no-body else will have a clue what you're talking about. Having said all that though, LONG LIVE LOCAL SLANG!!

Got to go now, I'm as busy as a one armed paper-hanger and I'll be as flat out as a lizard drinking to get through today before I shoot through this arvo.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bert
Date: 04 Jul 02 - 11:27 PM

Of course 'buttie' and 'sarnie' are more Midlands slang which is not *really* English;-)

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: DonD
Date: 04 Jul 02 - 11:38 PM

Thanks, guys. Art, I searched for 'slang' in the forum and found a gazillion threads listed. I got lost in some interesting stuff and links to links, but ...

Ozmacca was more to my point, if -- are you really talking that way when you're not being humorous. I think I know everything except 'arvo'; is that at all like 'aggro'?

I love slang and have dictionaries of it and I use 'my' local slang without a thought, but my point is that other people's slang is hard to take seriously, and certainly can't be used comfortably by an alien without looking like a fool. "Yo, homie!" I think not.

THe old American joke is that if you wake one of those Englishmen with the fancy accents up in the middle of the night, he'll talk just like a normal person. If I want to try it, will the Cockney commisaire really say, "His titfer's on the rack, so take a run up the apples, he must be home."? ReallY??? Would he say it to another Cockney?

And do Aussies really say, "G'Day, cobber", and call girls 'sheilas' and all that Paul Hogan stuff? Really???

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bert
Date: 04 Jul 02 - 11:46 PM

Yerse DonD, the true Cockney will speak rhyming slang among friends and family all the time.

Sayings like "What's the bird" or "It's in me sky" of "It's Fransaning" are in everyday use in our family.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 04 Jul 02 - 11:53 PM

Do Aussies really say "G'day cobber" and call girls "shielas"? Depends on whether they're coming the raw prawn and acting like a galah deliberately. They CAN all talk like Hoges but, being natural gentlemen, choose not to.......

"G'day" is an everyday greeting - to anybody at all. Call somebody "cobber" and you'll likely get a queer look these days. Once common - especially in working men's speech, the old cobber ain't what she used to be. "Mate" is used as a general address, but your emphatic "mate" is your best pal, who'll stick by you through thick and thin... well, thick anyway. "Digger" was in common use, but usually referred to an acting soldier, or someone who'd been "up the sharp end". "Shiela" has also dropped by the wayside - fortunately... But "arvo" means afternoon, and is an example of the Oz habit of shortening long words (or lengthening short words) and ending them with a suitable(or unsuitable) vowel sound. "Tinnie" for tin (of beer) "Footy" for football. There are theories that the slang here came about from the criminal classes who were sent out from Mother England, and the vocabulary was just generally adopted, along with the manners of speech. It figures, really.

Now what excuse have the "Septics" got? (I'll let you work that one out.)

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 12:03 AM

"Septics" I love it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 12:11 AM

Bert, glad you like it. It's been in common useage here for sixty years or so. I've been out here a long, long, time, but not that long. Now, what in the name o' the wee man's "Fransaning"... Oh, and while I remember, "footy" is the game you call rugby league - or union - or something. It's not football, which they call soccer, none of which I have any interest in...... can't stand vegemite either. Damned if I know how I got my naturalisation papers.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,DW at work
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 01:47 AM

Jees, slang and street talk changes so quickly that it's hard enough keep up with my own, let alone the UK as well. Add the Australian - or is it "strine" - and I'm completely screwed.

No sooner does a list of slang and nicknames come out than it's out of date.

DW

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,Pean O'Graffey
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 01:50 AM

Stone the flaming crows, me china plate reckons the tin lids are making the humpy look like a Chinese brothel but I don't give a hoot in hell.
I've got a half a mongrel but me shiela's on the wallaby so I'll just go down the bottlo and fill the iron lung.
I'll get out of your way now, I've got to go give birth to a Pommie...

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 02:02 AM

Yes, well.... And let that be a lesson to you.......... You can see why we don't seem to have many problems with them amurricains and THEIR slang - it's probably because we don't understand some of OURS!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: allie kiwi
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 02:49 AM

*blinks and disassociates self with Australasia...* LOL

Allie

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 02:59 AM

.. and you've got nothing to laugh about, over the other side of the Tasman. What about your "chully buns" then? Eh? Go on, answer me that then! (grins, ducks, runs for cover...)

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 03:03 AM

ARGH!! The Chully Buns!!! I thought they were a bread product to go with the picnic till my sister pulled out an insulated plastic picnic box!!

Good name for a band though?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 03:11 AM

Yeah, better than "esky", which is the Oz name for the same thing.... and that's it from me... I'm off out of it to get ready for a Medieval Fair & Tournament to watch people in tin suits bashing each other.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 03:35 AM

For shame, Bert! The Beatles used to say "sarnie"--what part of the Midlands did they come from? Antway, in the sixties, we denizens of the proper Midlands (none of this "Nottingham/Burton/Derby" nonsense!) used to say "sammoes" (short for "samwich").

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Trevor
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 04:39 AM

You beat me to it Steve! It's definitely sammoes where I come from. butties are definitely further north than the Midlands, and anyway Bert, ower English is more original than anybody's. 'ow bist?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 05:29 AM

my experiences working in liverpool some years ago reveal that most personal names get abbreviated so that they have an 'eee' sound on the end.

as in willie,jimmy, tommy, tony,joey, lizzie,ronny[veronica], stevie,georgie,freddy,josie,johnnie,annie, etc.

if its someone's sibling, it's usually preceeded by 'are' as in 'are willie, are annie'

also terms like, sarnie,ciggy,'ossie[hospital],the saffy[this afternoon],divvy[idiot],petty[petrol],bevvie[pint of beer], the bizzies[police].

a lot of these terms are often correctly pronounced as though the speaker has severe chronic cattarh or a noseful of snot

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 05:35 AM

And there are pockets where a butty is an open sandwich. This is fine for jam butties (carved door-step-style from an unsliced loaf, tons of butter and a minimum of 1" of jam, which must include as many stawberries as you can dig out of the jar before your mother sees you), but a little unsatisfactory for chips, where you really need the top slice to prevent filling loss (from the sandwich, not your teeth!)

But then most of us have more sense than to put our sarnies in our pockets ...

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Hrothgar
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 06:12 AM

I think it's in rhyming slang that the British and Australains really diverge from the septics. As far as I remember, the only time I've come across rhyming slang in anything American was a mention of "stove lids" for kids in a Damon Runyon story.

(Of course, everybody knows that kids are really "billy lids").

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Pied Piper
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 06:24 AM

Butty is definitely the word of choice here in the North (Manchester). While we're on the subject of bread, we up here have Barmcakes Whilst others have Baps and Ovenbottoms. Anyone got any more names for this ubiquitous staple. All the best PP.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Trevor
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 07:56 AM

Just an aside Steve - don't forget that the bread has to be buttered before it's sliced from the loaf. D'you remember Ryan and Ronnie who used to do a sketch based on a Welsh family where the mother always carried the bread under her arm, buttered it, sliced it and then put the jam on?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 09:09 AM

don't call will on ye dah!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Trevor
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 09:19 AM

That's the one!!! Brilliant!!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 09:38 AM

If your looking for words for bread try this thread - BS: What do you call your bread?

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 09:58 AM

I'm originally from Yorkshire and I say; Sarnie and buttie, as well as spuds/ tatties, spiders are spids, a pint of beer is a jar, etc

cat

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 11:00 AM

"If there's one thig I 'ate, I'm fed up, that's what I wish!"

Remember it well! My grandad used to slice bread that way, turning the loaf round and gradually working his way to the middle. He could cut it paper-thin and very accurately: 3/16" +/- .015". When he took hois watch out of his waistcoat pocket, there was always a shower of crumbs!

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bagpuss
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 11:03 AM

I once got told off by the woman in a chip shop in manchester for asking for a chip buttie when I wanted a chip "barm" apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 11:08 AM

balmy!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 11:12 AM

You folks seem to have 90% of the slang. Maybe this thread should just be titled British Slang. Or British and Aussie Slang. Every once in awhile when I write to my British and Aussie friends, I'll use a phrase that they haven't heard. But, nothing as colorful as all this stuff. DonD asked whether there are American expressions that Brits and others would find equally unlikely. I grew up in a small Midwestern town, but I'll be danged if I can come up with many colorful slang terms. There are phrases like "parked in," in which seem self-explanatory, or "a couple-few," but those are pretty limp.

When my oldest son was in High School my youngest son and I used to ride him mercilessly because he was always coming home with the latest slang terms. For awhile it was "crush." Man, that's Crush! Slang terms like that seemed to have a shelf life of a few weeks before they were replaced by another equally short-lived slang term. Over here, you can tell how old someone is, just by listening to the slang terms they use. "neat," "cool", "boss," "Dude," ... and in England, whatever became of "fab" and "gear?"

Now, when you get into sandwiches, that's another story. You can order a submarine sandwich(now, a "sub") a Grinder, a Hoagie, or a Hero and you'll get the same thing. When I came to New York City in 1960, I ordered a milk shake, and the guy squirted some flavoring in a tall glass of milk and shook it. I thought he was just being a wise guy, and I said... "Hey, I didn't mean to literally shake milk... where's the ice cream?" He said, "Ice cream? Milk shakes don't have ice cream.. you should have ordered a Frappe!" then I was SURE he was a wise guy. Turns out, Frappe is an old New York term for a milk shake. Only goes to show.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 11:29 AM

Very entertaining material, folks! I think I'll start one on gestures...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: DonD
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 11:51 AM

And so Canadians really do say "eh?" at the end of every sentence? And what about the folks in Dixie? I thought that you'all all would have something to add.

Thanks all for maintaing my sense of wonder.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bert
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 12:19 PM

Fransaning is a shortened form of the rhyming slang "France and Spain" for rain.

Oops, Sorry Steve and Trevor. As you may have guessed I come from London where The Midlands start at or maybe just beyond Bedford *GRIN* and no civilized person has ever travelled further North than Birmingham so all points north tend to blur into one vast unknown.

Mr. Happy, I was always taught that it was Barmy, derived from the lunatic asylum at Barming in Kent. Although it's not PC to call them lunatic asylums nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 02:47 PM

Americans and Canadians seem to have lost a lot of colorful language. Probably because now they watch television rather than talk to one another. The extremely disadvantaged (ghetto kids) are still inventive. Middle class school lingo (cool, rad, etc.) is pretty dull.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 02:51 PM

When I was doing my teacher training last year the teenagers would say "Mint" or "Minta" for something that was good or nice. I just say "Grand!" When something was unpleasant or nasty they would say "Minging"

I must be getting old LOL!!!!

Cat

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 03:17 PM

Oh those connie-onnie butties of childhood Or would I prefer that on a 'batch'? Translation provided on request for southerners (or Americans)

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 03:27 PM

Well, I guess the one that springs to mind is Fag. Certainly takes on a different meaning depending which side of the pond you're on.

When in England a young lady said "Knock me up in the morning". It seems that over there it means to wake them while here to knock up is slang for impregnating someone.

Of course, the Irish "Feck" is a great all purpose word.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 03:40 PM

Some cutsy faux redneck bars here (States and Canada) serve beer in Mason jars. "Jar" for a beer or a drink came over in the 19th century, largely disappeared, but has come back, I think, because of these places.
A digression from slang, but when I first came to Canada, my favorite pigging concoction was a chocolate malted milk (an ice cream based milkshake with malt added). The use of malt in a milk shake was unknown here at the time, but milkshakes with ice cream were available. A favorite drink here is is the Caesar, which Canadians can't find in the States. It is a Bloody Mary made with Clamato juice rather than plain tomato juice.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: C-flat
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 04:00 PM

In the North East U.K.
Fadges (pronounced fadjeez)=Small buns
Marra = mate
Gadge (like fadge)= man(bloke)
Minging = Unpleasant,rotten
Gan Canny = Take it easy
Judas (I'm going for a Judas)Iscariot = Take-away food (carry-out)
As light as a kite/ Away with the mixer = Not very bright
To call someone "Harpic" (a brand-name toilet cleaner) would be to suggest that they're "clean round the bend" or Nuts!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Gypsy
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 11:47 PM

The redwood empire........you have riggin' rats (small children) and when working in the woods, watch out for a headache (what used to be a "widow maker" bad tree or limb about to fall)Oh yeah, and when hammmered, we see pink whales rather than pink elephants

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 03:51 AM

Love the pink whales - could go another round here on British/American/Australian expressions for being frightfully drunk or rat arsed as we say 'round here'

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 06:38 AM

We use rat arsed in England, or a favourite when I was at uni was steaming (Pissed)

On me todd= by myself

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 09:27 AM

In Canada to be be pissed it to be really drunk, in the U.S. it's to be really upset (our pissed off).

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 09:49 AM

Seems to me that anyone having a "jam buttie" would be in need of an enema....or possibly a suppository.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 02:46 PM

catsPHiddle, "on your tod" (sic) is rhyming slang derived from the name of legendary American jockey Tod Sloan who revolutionized the art of race-riding when he came over to England in the earlt twentieth century. (On your own =on your Tod Sloan)

I always thought it would have been amusing if actress Honor Blackman had ever married actor Richard Todd....

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 06:15 PM

Grand I didnt know that Murray...well you learn something new everyday cheers for the insight!!!

cat

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bert
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 06:46 PM

But true Cockneys will also tell you that 'Arry Stottle (bottle) was also a jockey, as was Rory O'Moore (door) and Jimmy Riddle (piddle).

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 07:00 PM

Harry Wragge really was a jockey, though. (The Kinks)

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Jim Krause
Date: 06 Jul 02 - 09:52 PM

I was doing a sing around on Pal Talk the other Sunday. It was me and five or six folks from England. I received a message at the bottom of the screen asking about my nicname "Sod Shanty" and was that a song about cursing sailors? I replied that no, a sod shanty was an earthen house built on the American Great Plains by the pioneers because there were no trees to use for lumber. Sod=earth Shanty=a hovel, or hut. Actually, some sod houses were quite nice with real glass windows, and wood floors.
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Gordy BP
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 03:17 AM

So I said to this sheila, 'You've got lucky legs.' She said 'What do you mean.' I said ' You're lucky they don't break off and stick up your arse.' This sort of expression is becoming rare around Sydney but if you try to substitute 'ass' for 'arse' you could be in trouble with animal rights activists. And if you told a sheila she had a nice ass she'd think you were admiring her donkey. Which brings to 'donk', the power source in a jam jar.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: rich-joy
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 06:23 AM

I didn't know, DonD, that Canadians tacked on ",eh?" at the end of every sentence!!

Down Under, that little gem is reserved for us Queenslanders, eh?!

Cheers! R-J

PS Little Mo : my Partner, Poor Misery, also waxes lyrical about "connie-onnie butties" - you must have had a Scouse upbringing too!!!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Hrothgar
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 07:38 AM

That should be Kiwis, shouldn't it, Rich?

New Zealand is the only country in the world where "A" is a word, and not just a letter.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 08:23 AM

At Old Songs (see the Back From Old Songs thread), Bigchuck's daughter and son-in-law had brought a Johnson guitar (a Pacific-rim import brand that seems to be flooding the country) that had a blue, Gawd forbid, finish. There was a great deal of kidding about Todd playing with his big blue Johnson when Chris Newman and Maire were at our site, and Chris was puzzled. The other Kris (Mizchuck) explained, "It's an American (originally ghetto) slang term meaning a Willie." Then he understood.

We, on the other hand, have a cat named Willie, and I have to remember not to offer British visitors the opportunity to hold or pet my Willie.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: HuwG
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 11:32 AM

An odd way in which slang takes on new meanings. "Jam Buttie" sometimes refers to a Police Patrol Car, on account of its usual colouring in Britain, which is white with a vivid red (sometimes reflective) stripe along both sides. The term is applied even to cars which have different colours to the reflective panels (such as a checkerboard yellow and blue pattern, used in Cheshire).

The term "Black Maria" is still applied to a prison van, even when its colouring is no longer black.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 11:57 AM

As kids we used to call police cars Jam Sarnies!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 09:35 PM

Poor as Job's turkey. Plain as pea turkey. Old ones heard in Maybelle Carter country; are they known anywhere else?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Jul 02 - 11:10 PM

G'day Bert,

"...I was always taught that it was Barmy, derived from the lunatic asylum at Barming in Kent ..."

I think this is another case of "Folk Etymology" (If a word hangs around long enough near something similar ... it will, inevitably, become "associated" - right or wrong.) My(older, Shorter)Oxford gives 1851 as the appearance (in print) of balmy in the sense of "crazy, stupid" ... and the alternative spelling barmy does not appear until 1896. (Incidentally, this I have seen sourced to "barm" - the froth on the head of a fermenting vessel.)

It is interesting that, my (work copy of) The Australian Concise Oxford Dictionary (2nd edition, 1992) has, by then, shifted to "barmy" in this sense and "balmy" for the previous six senses - related to 'balm'. I suspect that this is the result of Oxford accepting that a modern dictionary's role is "descriptive", not "prescriptive" and so they now accept the later spelling, whatever its source or derivation, as current English.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bert
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 12:35 AM

Gawd Bob, surely you don't expect me to *investigate* my statements do yer. I'll stick with the *folk etymology* thanks. *GRIN*

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:01 AM

My auntie would do the bread slicing thing. She'd up-end the loaf, butter it, slice it, cut it into triangles and put it on the plate in a pretty pattern, all whilst carrying on a conversation with anyone else, looking anywhere except at the loaf. Her record was 3 whole (long) loaves in under 20 mins, each slice almost mathmatically precise and with the butter spread into the corners properly.

In Dorset it's the habit to say 'you' at the end of each sentence, so it would be common to hear people say "bistee comin' wi' I, you?" (bistee = be-est thee = are you), or "ee cassn't unnerstanei cannee you" (ee = you, cassn't = cannot, unnerstanei = understand I (me), cannee = can thee). The use of 'ee' for the third person, personal and third person formal archaic (you, me and thee) confuses a lot of people, but makes it more democratic... (there is a rumour that a family member greeted a royal personage with the phrase 'how bistee then you?' when they visited the village.... I can't substantiate it, but knowing my family.......)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:13 AM

Hmm.... Is that slang, though, Liz? It's more of a foreign language with different sentence structure and grammatical rules by the look of it - Just 'cos it's SUPPOSED to be english doesn't stop it being foreign! In Oz we KNOW we're supposed to be talking english, but are too lazy (or too bloody-minded) to do it properly, while you're actually using another language altogether... it just so happens it has some english words in it!

I feel that we are really more exposed to what passes for "international western marketable" slang these days. The american and americanised slang we all seem to be familiar with is the version we get in ads and TV shows, which is, I assume, the currently "accepted standard" slang or street talk - cleaned up for broadcasting. Nice to know that we will have a universal lingua franca some day - even if it is slang......... Just hope we can keep our own ways of speaking intact.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Mr Happy
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:26 AM

bert & bob,

its our eng. lang spellings that are barmy. just like our weather. yesterday i was at cleckheaton ff[yorks] enjoying the warm,sunny, BALMY day, twanging, squeezing & singing with some chums. today the weather's gone back to being BARMY again, cold 'n pissing down!

btw, as well as being a term for sandwich, 'butty' also means 'friend', chum, or mate in south wales.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:40 AM

Further to Murray's wishful thinking on film stars' weddings, I'd always hoped that Whoopi Goldberg would marry Peter Cushing ...

Liz, I think that's dialect you're talking about; I think that's when everybody speaks like that, including the older grerations; while slang comes and goes like other fashions.

Bert, if yo spend much time inhaling the alcoholic fumes from the barm on top of the fermentation vessels in a brewery, you'll certainly end up barmy, OED notwithstanding!

Keep out th'oss road, as we say where I come from,
Steve

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 05:11 AM

GodyBP:
There was a young girl from Madras
Who had a remarkable ass.
Not rounded and pink
As you possibly think.
It was Grey, Had long ears, and ate grass!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: The Walrus
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 11:40 AM

The bread cutting technique mentioned earlier was not unusual. In earlier times. Amongst the poorer members of society, it was not unusual to have little or no furniture and even a table might be a luxury that some could not afford, so the bread was buttered or more likely "scraped" (scrape the butter on the scrape most of it off again) and then cut using the body as the board (hence turning the loaf and cutting to the centre). Eric Partidge records the use of the phrase "When yout mother was cutting bread on you", by British soldiers of the Great War, as a variant on "Before your time"

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 04:48 AM

merseyside slang.

as i mentioned above, liverpool & merseyside have their own peculiar slanguage.

when i worked there, a colleague often remarked 'ah! me dogs are barking!'

i thought she must have a remarkable sense of hearing!

it was later explained that 'me dogs are barking' meant her feet were hurting- obscure or wot!.

also another expression which mystified me was 'he's going down the bank!'. i first came across this around st. helens but again heard it in l/pool and other areas.

i first thought it meant someone was going to the bank- but colleagues enlightened me that it meant someone was 'kicking off!' - apparently this means having a spat (tantrum)

more?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 08:50 AM

"me dogs are barking!" is not exclusively Merseyside. I've been hearing it since I was a sprog and my family were mostly from London.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: lady penelope
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 06:44 PM

Spaw L.O.L. But actually, that's just a threat people make.......

Open sarnies are actually 'pieces' as in "Hey Maw, gee us a piece an' jam" . Laid down in song by Matt McGinn in " Ye canny fling pieces frae a twenty storey flat".

My favourite London phrase is " 'E got right out of 'Is pram" meaning to get dreadfully upset, at volume. When some one becomes even angrier they are said to have " thrown out all the toys an'all ". Parker has just informed me of " spat the dummy", which he thinks is Australian but means roughly the same thing.

In America people advise you " Don't have a cow, man". In east London it's "Don't 'ave a 'mare". As in, don't have nightmares over this.

A phrase I love but still don't understand how it came about is " With the corner up " as in " I disbelieve your last statement " or " The likelyhood of your last statement becoming reality is extremely minimal"

"Gone for a Burton" translates as " It's all gone horribly wrong" and comes from a series of adds for Burton Ale. ( Various pictures of domestic disasters, with 'father' throwing his jacket on and the buy line " Dad's gone for a Burton" ). Parker used this phrase for years around me before he noticed the puzzled look on my face and explained it!

And where does " it's all gone pear shaped " ( again, it's all gone horribly wrong ) come from?

Why is it, when you're trying to think of stuff like this, you know you know loads of stuff but can only think of a couple?

TTFN M'Lady P.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Shields Folk
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 08:42 PM

I thought "gone for a burton" had something to do with sailing, i.e. as in a burton tackle on a dipping lug?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Shields Folk
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 09:01 PM

Down where I live in Shields there is a small pier that points out into the mouth of the Tyne that goes under the name of Lloyds Jetty. Until very recently it had a small hut on the end that was referred to as the hailing station. The story goes that before the introduction of telegraph a bloke on the end of the jetty would call out to vessels coming into the river, "What's your name and where are you from?"

Anyway one morning an inbound vessel was approached the hailing station. It was a collier bark from Hamburg named Anna. The bloke on the hailing station shouts out "What's your name" the bloke on the ship replies "Anna". From the hailing station is repeated, "What's your name" again the bloke on the vessel replies "Anna" This carries on for a few minutes until the bloke on the hailing station shouts out "Ah naa yee na but ah wanna na"

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 03:24 AM

"Gone for a Burton" was WWII RAF slang for having been shot down. I'm (almost) old enough to rememer the 50/- tailor, and I'm very familiar with Burton Ales, coming from Staffordshire; but I don't recall any of those ads, Lady P.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 04:30 AM

When I lived in Scarborough (Yorkshire) one of the favourite phrases when someone was in a mood was "'e's spat his dummie out"

When my mum was in a mood my dad used to say that she had "a monk on".......what she was doing with a monk I will never know. When I spent some time in Guernsey they used to say the person had "a cob on".

cat

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 04:37 AM

catsP,

the guernsyites 'cob on' is similar to merseysiders 'he's gorra gob on' [he's pulling a face]

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 04:44 AM

and shields folk,

i don't know if you're north or south shields.

a colleague who's from s.shields told me the slang name for those from his 'neck of the woods' are known as 'sandancers'. what's the origin of this?

i wonder where the expression 'neck of the woods' comes from.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: ozmacca
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 06:45 AM

Down around here, we hear "spat the dummy" and also "chucked a wobbly". Now the dummy spit I can understand - baby gets upset, starts whingeing and out drops the pacifier. Fine. But "wobbly"? Nobody I know can explain that one. Nearly had a blue about it.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Shields Folk
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 07:25 AM

Mr Happy, in the early part of this century South Shields attracted a large Arab population, I think they were from Yemen. Hardly politically correct but they became known as Sandancers. And by the way if I was from 'South' Shields I would have said 'South' Shields

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 08:30 AM

ozmacca,

I always thought "chucked a wobbly" (or in the circles I move in, "threw a wobbly") came from the appearance of someong almost trembling in rage.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 09:33 AM

My brother calls young children "ankle biters!"

cat

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Snuffy
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 09:35 AM

Isn't it a 'Wobbler' rather than a 'Wobbly'?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: DonD
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 02:00 PM

Thanks all for adding to my trove of local expressions from both sides of the ocean. However ... except for what I took to be a facetious usage, I haven't gotten an answer for --- yonks.

I know it means years, but there are two things I want to know: is it ever used other than in "it's been yonks since...; would anyone (the Queen?) say "I can't believe I've reigned for so many yonks."? second, is it a class or gender thing? I picture it as a usage from the Belles of St. Trinians school girls or Sloane Rangers (are there still Sloane Rangers?) and never by men or boys or the missus at the chippie.

I'll wait patiently for illumination, for yonks if necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 02:33 PM

When I was doing my teacher training I had to get up at 4:30 am to get to the train station and then catch 2 trains to my placement my brother used to complain that I was getting up "at stupid o' clock" in the morning. I now use this phrase regulary when I have to get up and it's still dark outside!

cat

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Les from Hull
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 02:34 PM

Yonks is pretty classless. We use in as in 'for yonks', or sometimes 'for yonks and yonks'. 'I've been doing that for yonks.' 'I've been waiting for yonks.'

I don't think of it as being regionalised, but then I'm only in one region! (about halfway up the lefthand side). And I've no idea where it came from, but I've certainly been using the word for yonks.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: The Walrus
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 05:25 PM

I'd always assumed that "yonks" was a contraction of a corrupted (spoonerised?) "donkey's years". I have no real basis for this, it's just something I picked up somewhere (makes it sound like a skin disease).

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Les from Hull
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 06:48 PM

That sounds very feasible!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,Just
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 07:27 PM

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 07:38 PM

well!! having just read the entire thread, I can tell you my wallies are totally boffered! This had all the chompfer of a dilton waggle, but not half as dulft!

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Ditchdweller
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 02:13 PM

To Lady Penelope; "Gone pear shaped" dates back to barrage baloons in WW1. If the inflation baloon leaked that was the shape they went!

Now, who can give me the origin of an Egg Banjo?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Ditchdweller
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 02:15 PM

Sod it! meant to say "If the inflated baloon leaked that was the shape they went!"

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 03:47 PM

Barrage balloons were more in evidence in the last war in civilian area, such as the London Parks. If you saw the movie Hope and Glory, there's a great episode with an escaped barrage balloon that has in fact gone a bit pearshaped before it was through. But more like an inflatable elephant that's lost it's puff.

Dogs for feet is London as well. I think it's rhyming slang from "dogs meat". A variant on "plates of meat", meaning feet, which oddly enough never seems to be contracted to "plates". And once you've got "dogs", well if they're complaining at the treatment they've been getting, it stands to reason they'd be barking, it's what dogs do.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 06:35 PM

Talking about slang - sometimes you aren't sure whether a particular expression is general, or local or just family.

And the particular one I'm thinking of is "honky-tonk" meaning bed (as opposed to bar in America or cheap wine in Australia). "It's time I went to my honky-tonk". Anybody care to elucidate.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: DonD
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 06:55 PM

I remember 'dogs' and barking ones at that from before WW2. I associate it with the American depression and Black or poor white slang. (Yes, I predate WW2.) Cockney rhyming slang? I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: NH Dave
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 12:49 AM

This may be more military than in common US useage, but we frequently use the terms, curtain climbers, rug rats, cookie crunchers, and ankle biters, as previously mentioned, in reference to young children.

Again, military, British this time. I've heard the Army referred to as Pongos/Pongoes, and I know the derivation of that one, but why do the forces refer to RAF types as Crabs?

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:19 AM

I've never heard of the RAF being called "crabs"; they were always "Brylcreem boys" in my younger days, from their penchant for using lots of that hair cream. Must have made a mess of the flying helmets ...

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:33 AM

I've heard two versions of "crabs" for the RAF
The first is that the colour of the uniform is (or was) reminiscent of the colour of some of the inedible bits of a crab (don't ask me, I can't eat crabs etc. so I don't go near them). RAF blue is known in some circles as "Crab fat blue".
The second version is that the original shade of RAF blue was similar to that of "606" or "Salvorsan" (also known as "blue unction") an ointment for the treatment of crab lice.

DonD, Eric Partridge records the existance of rhyming slang both in Australia and the USA (with a subset for tramps/hoboes), if I can find a reference, I'll post it over the weekend.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 10:52 AM

Walrus, if the first explanation is the true origin, then the second would have been a powerful reason to perpetuate it. "Blue unction", as readers of Spike Milligan's memoirs will know, was widely used, and greatly loathed, by those who had to use it. Not that I'm old enough to know ...

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:36 PM

I've used "pegged it" to mean "died" for as long as I can remember. But my mate from Southport, Lancs thought I meant that the bloke had run away. That was a confusing conversation...

In Gloucestershire (and I think Bristol and South Wales) they call plimsoles "daps". Someone told me that this was because it stood for "Dunlop Athletic Pneumatic System" - hmmmm the jury's out on that one. My mum's from Cambridgeshire and we had a conversation like this on my first day at my new school in Glos:

"Mum, I need a dap bag for PE" "What's a dap bag?" "I dunno, but I've got to have one!"

People in the Forest of Dean use Buttie to mean friend. I've heard that it comes from the use of the buttie system in the coal mines in the FOD - I think a buttie was a truck which you had with you to fill with coal, ie it was with you all the time and therefore dependable etc, so by extension was applied to your mate.

The older generation use "en um?" to mean "aren't they?" (I've also heard be um? for are they), then there's "en 'er, en 'im, en us"

Steve.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 06:00 AM

Guest Steve: "Daps" is / was current in S Wales, (now replaced by the ubiquitous 'trainers'), and the derivation I heard was that the factory name was on the wal as "Dunlop Associated Plastics". The 'original' daps would not have been 'pneumatic', as these were the bog standard school type plimsoles, black uppers, light brown rubber soles, elasticated across the arch of the foot, or with laces. Elasticated version was favoured for primary schools because the teachers never liked having to tie/untie,unknot, dozens of pairs.
Numerous other terms survive, although 'trainers' is taking over. :"Pumps"
"baseball shoes" (usually like daps, but ankle length with rubber protectors for the ankle bone.
"Pegged it" for died, I have always heared as "pegged out", also as a term for winning in a game of cribbage, where the score is kept on a peg board. (possibly this is the derivation)
"Buttie" as mate is also common in S Wales, but as for the "buttie system", perhaps this is a corruption of the "Buddy System" as used for scuba divers (or vice versa)

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 07:18 AM

Anybody got anything relating to my query about "honky-tonk" as meaning bed or sleep? Anyone come across it?

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 07:31 AM

Nigel,

Dunlop Associated Plastics is more believable I have to say. I was a bit sceptical when I heard the derivation. My dad (Cambs) always used to call them pumps, but then that's what we used to call farts when we were kids - and so did he!

Pegged it is what we say! My wife uses the term as well, and most of my contemporaries which is why I was so surprised by my northern mate! I agree about the crib derivation.

I think most of the slang/dialect terms used in Glo'shire are also used in South Wales (except for the wonderful term "South Waleians" use for their Northern welsh-speaking cousins: "gogs" derived, I think, from the end of Llanfairpwllgwyn etc.....goGOGoch), this has been my experience!

I heard the buttie system explanation from a Forester on the radio as the local government have launched an initiative designed to preserve the ancient dialect which is sadly in decline. Buddy is likeliest a derivation of buttie though.

Miners in the Forest were generally solo miners (called Freeminers). Even now if you're born in the Forest you have ancient mining rights you can claim, I think there's only one person left now who still mines.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 09:14 AM

We use 'pegged it', 'snuffed it' and 'popped their clogs' to mean dead!

cat

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 12:13 PM

Kevin, I've certainly heard 'plates' as slang for feet.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,your fat momma
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 12:18 PM

you are all dumb little gay idiots. get a freaking life you morons

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: The Walrus
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 04:37 PM

"GUEST,your fat momma",

Don't come back until your IQ reaches double figures.

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 05:04 PM

You'll find pumps in a dictionary as a term for a light shoe used for dancing (ie not clog type dancing), and it was used for plimsolls at one time.

(You can really annoy some young people by referring to their trainers as plimsolls. I wonder if there are any brave young people who defiantly use the term themselves -maybe the kind of noncomformists who might go in for folk music?)

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 08:47 AM

And does "starving" mean "hungry" or "cold" where you come from? (Or...?)

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: HuwG
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 09:14 AM

Guest Steve, the (sometimes derogatory) name "Gog", applied by a South Waleian to a North Waleian, derives from the welsh word, "Gogledd", meaning "north".

If I might be politically a little uncorrect here, in the last century a typical piece of mutual insult might go:

"Gwell bantu na hwntwr" (Better to be from Africa than South Wales) "Gwell wog na gog" (Better to be from the Indian sub-continent than North Wales)

This was quoted in "This sweet and bitter Earth", a novel by Alexander Cordell.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: Snuffy
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 09:16 AM

I've always assumed that Gog, meaning a North Walian, is just an abbreviation of Gogledd (which is Welsh for north), rather than anything to do with LlanfairPG.

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,Charmion at work
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 11:57 AM

To Steve Parks, in re "starving": My mother (English/Irish ancestry, born in Montreal in 1929, lived 40 years in Ottawa) would say "starving of the hunger" to remove all doubt.

Someone above mentions "stupid o'clock" -- anyone hanging around in Canadian military circles will soon hear "zero dark thirty" to mean an unspecified hour between midnight and dawn, and "zero dark stupid" to mean an unreasonably early pre-dawn hour.

In re "crab" for RAF: in the Canadian Navy of the 1970s, I learned that airmen were "crabfats", from the greyish colour of the RCAF uniform, similar to that of the grey paint used in Royal Navy ships, which was always called "crabfat". Oddly enough, this usage has survived 30 years, although the paint association has disappeared, perhaps because the Canadian Navy does not have nearly as much contact with the Royal Navy as it used to. I recently heard a youngish petty officer recounting a fanciful bit of folk etymology concerning the non-existence of fat on a crab. Among soldiers (then "pongoes", now "grunts"), airmen were "pigeons", and their arrival in the Junior Ranks' would be marked by cooing sounds. If one wished to start a fight, the thing to do was remark (loudly) that the canary would be a more representative bird, as they are too yellow to fight but too cute to shoot.

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From: GUEST,seanchai
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 12:54 AM

There is a book out called, "Cold As A Bay Street Banker's Heart", subtitled, 'The Ultimate Prairie Phrase Book'. It gives a few local expressions, such as matrimonial cake (date squares), a wedding 'social', and fowl supper.

Here are a few words / phrases to prove to you that we Canadians are not TOTALLY American:)

great white combine sleepers / strollers / grinners improved Englishman / Scotsman principal meridian cow gate

There are many more but these are some easy ones!

Jean in Winnipeg, Canada

Subject: RE: BS: American vs British slang
From:
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 01:29 AM

I've got a collection of mainly midwestern US idioms, etc. (still needs editing) here --

http://www2.truman.edu/~adavis/expressions.html

Adam