Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix

Subject: BS Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 02:11 AM

I heard this on BBC Radio 2, I am not sure who it is by (possibly Dido?), have you heard it?, if so what do you think to it?

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 04:39 AM

Surely somebody must have heard it!

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 05:01 AM

sorry john,i think you have your own music in Hull, as well as your own telephones. I know Lal Waterson's Some Old Salty...has someone remixed it and added a bit of Dido? You'll have to tell us more. My mum's called Dido, incidentally. She lives in Eastbourne, but I dont she think is involved in any dance remix projects. At least, she's never mentioned it to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 08:29 AM

Anybody got the real words to this? I'm sure there's lots of mondegreens in the way I would sing it!

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:02 AM

Psssst! John! This isn't a BS thread!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 11:41 AM

pssssst! WYSIWYG! You never know with John from Hull

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 12:21 PM

The Some Old Salty (Waterson) link at Dick Gaughan's website doesn't work for me, Snuffy.

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:00 PM

John, don't think it can be Dido, I've been through all her websites and it's not mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:15 PM

Noreen,

Try this link

Subject: Lyr Add: SOME OLD SALTY
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 01:40 PM

Thanks, O kind anonymous one!

SOME OLD SALTY
Written and arranged by L.Waterson/O.Knight

Chorus:
Some old salty, how he used to rock me.
Jelly roll or Jerry Lee, how he used to rock me.

Salt fare, North Sea, weird stare. Further than the eye can see.
He had a head like a toy shop, bow legged stance off, must have been the rolling sea.

Repeat chorus

Hull Fair waltzers, bopping to Brenda Lee.
River boat jazz cruise, jiving to the Two-Nineteen.

Repeat chorus

Down there for the dancing, come on Mr Chester please.
Play 'Deliah's gone' for one more round, some old Salty's on his feet.

Repeat chorus

Repeat verse one

Down 'The Abercrombie'

Recorded by Lal Waterson & Oliver Knight: Once in a Blue Moon
1996 Topic TSCD 478

From http://wwwmcc.murdoch.edu.au/~gillard/watersons/once.html#some

NK

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 05:18 PM

Thanks, Noreen. I was never sure whether it was 'Jerry Lee' or 'Dairylea', and I had 'tank-top' for 'stance off', among others.

Can't say the real words make a lot more sense than mine, though.

WassaiL! V

Subject: Tune Add: SOME OLD SALTY
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 07:22 PM

Here's a go at the tune (BTW there's another chorus between 'Repeat Verse 1' and 'Down the Abercrombie').

X: 229
T:Some Old Salty
M:4/4
L:1/8
C:Lal Waterson/Oliver Knight
P:ABACADABAE
D:Once in a Blue Moon, Topic TSCD478, 1996
K:Bb
P:A%Chorus
d2c2|
B4 B4-|B2z2 d>dc>c|B4 B4-|B2z2 d>df>f|
g3g (gb3-|b2)z2 d>dc>c|B4 B4-|B4||
P:B%Verse 1
z4|
f4 g4|f4 d4|d4 B4|d>cB>G Bc3|d2d>d d2c>c|
B4 B4|f4 g4|f4 d4|d>cB>G Bc3|B4||
P:C%Verse2
z4|
f4 g4|f4 d4|dBB2 B2c2|d4 z4|
f2f g4|f4 d4|d>cB>G Bc3|B4||
P:D%Verse3
z4|
f4 g3g|f4 d4|d>cB>G B2c2|d4 z2f2|
f2f2 g3g|f2f2 d4|d>cB>G Bc3|B4||
P:E%Finale (slower)
dc BG|(B3c) B4||

With an original line-up of Lal Waterson, Maria Gilhooley, Norma Waterson, Jim Boyes, Barry Coope, Lester Simpson and Oliver Knight, I can't see any re-mix being an improvement.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: BS: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:59 AM

Thanks, Snuffy. I put the extra chorus in.

Garry

That's not a transcription, btw, that's from the CD insert.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Noreen
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:28 AM

Thanks for your good work, Gary.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Noreen
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:40 AM

So no-one else heard this 'dance remix'.. it wasn't your vivd imagination now was it, John? *grin*

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Les from Hull
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 03:08 PM

Although this song dates from a time slightly before mine I'll try to help with some of the references.

Hull Fair waltzers, bopping to Brenda Lee.
Hull Fair is an annual fun fair, the biggest travelling fair in Europe, and Waltzers are one of the rides. Bopping is a form of dance, a gentler form of jiving, and Brenda Lee's hits were often played on the waltzers' PA. People could use this as an impromptu dance hall.

River boat jazz cruise...
The Humber Ferries (in the days before we had a bridge) used to do Sunday or evening cruises with a band on board. I imagine that the two-nineteen was a jazz band, but I'm not sure.

I imagine that Lal had someone in mind from her youth when she wrote this song.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:31 PM

Les from Hull, the fragrant Maggie and my good self perform this little number in a kind of three part harmony thingy. Don't know about a dance remix -I don't think any of us wear the proper sort of shoes!

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 02:54 AM

Noreen-i was sure I heard this, but I was half asleep, so i suppose it is possible that I dreamed about it! I even listened to a dance radio station, to see if they would play it, i could not handle that for long though, as it was giving me a headache, so it was back to Radio 2!

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 09:31 PM

itson radio 2 NOW.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 28 Jul 02 - 09:40 PM

Brilliant! I finally cracked the mystery of this song, it is by Chumber Wumber (not sure about the spelling)! And belive it is called Salt Fare. if any UK catters are still awake, have a listen to Radio 2, there are now playing a tune with mandolins played on it, they are playing some good music, but the DJ wumon is a bit annoying, I think shes called Lin Parsons, i wish she'd shut up and just play the music.john

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 07:45 PM

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Oct 02 - 09:10 PM

refresh, Hull Fair is here now, the mystery was eventually solved, it was Chumber Wumber, not sure if thats how you spel it, and they sung it at this yeers Cambridge Folk Festibal. Local mudcat people Linda Kelly, and Les from Hull sing a good version of this song as well.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Les from Hull
Date: 08 Oct 02 - 05:20 PM

I didn't think that I was going to like the Chumbawumba version, but I do.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Trevor
Date: 09 Oct 02 - 11:38 AM

I've got a recording somewhere of Norma Waterson giving some background to this. I'll see if I can dig it out.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: phil h
Date: 09 Oct 02 - 05:29 PM

Gets sung regularly (not the dance mix) on Sunday evenings in the Tap & Spile Witby by Mel (daughter of Derek & Dorothy) Elliot, I think it's on the CD they put out recently.
Phil

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Willa
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 05:34 PM

Snuffy,
Les has explained some of the phrases
Like many 'personal' songs, the lyrics make sense if you know a bit of local background. This is only my interpretation, but it's the picture I have in my mind when I sing the song.
Lal was in her teens in the '50s, Jelly Roll (Morton) and Jerry Lee (Lewis) were both famous piano players, (jazz and rock'n'roll respectively) though Morton died in 1941. Local dance halls in the 50's often used records for dancing.
Lal's 'old salty' was probably a trawlerman. Local lads went 'pleasuring' on the trawlers in the North Sea and distant water grounds from the age of about 11, then went to sea on leaving school at 14, so a man in his late 20s had often been a trawlerman for half his life.
The 'weird stare, further than the eye can see' was that of a man used to scanning the horizon.
Trawlermen were at sea for about three weeks, ashore for a 2/3 days, so didn't have time to find their 'land legs', and walked with the typical rolling gait of a sailor.

'Head like a toy shop' is a bit more difficult to explain, but this excerpt from The Guardian goes part way towards it
"Wednesday January 9, 2002
The Guardian
In the 1950s, almost 8,000 trawlermen worked out of Hull….
If they had a good haul, and the markets were favourable, they could walk away from the dockside "settlings" with their pockets stuffed with cash. They had 72 hours to enjoy it. Hence their nickname, the three-day millionaires… Despite their macho image, the trawlermen had a surprisingly dandyish streak. One tradition of the men was a visit to their tailor to be measured for something stylish - high waistbands, wide bottoms, moon pockets, in a range of colours, from sky blue to shocking pink. …"
Combine this with the fact that the men used Brylcreem or hair oil and groomed their hair carefully, think of an Elvis toy, and you've more or less got the picture.
Eliza Carthy sometimes posts on Mudcat, so she may add to the thread with some first hand info.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Les from Hull
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 05:46 PM

That's excellent, Willa - I agree with what the Guardian says except I don't remember pink suits - sky blue seemed to be the colour to go for. And although the suits were all similar, everyone wanted something different, three vents, a half-belt at the back, turn-ups on the jacket sleeves. This would be late 50s, when I was 'nobbut a bain'.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: JamesBerriman
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 11:52 AM

"Salt fare North Sea" is track 1 on the new Chumbawamba album "Readymades", which also features the voices of Dick Gaughan, Kate Rusby and Janet Russell (guest vocalist).

The album gets a good review on Amazon. See Chumbawamba - Readymades.

( :-]) James

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 May 03 - 12:06 AM

Thanks James, I heard that Chumba Wumba, are playing at Beverley Flok Festival next month.

Subject: RE: Some old Salty-Dance Remix
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 16 Jun 03 - 12:18 PM

I,just,bought,the,CD,what,James,mentioned.
Its,really,nice.john

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: GUEST,Bobbie
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 09:16 AM

Great to hear all this wisdom on the song...my husband heard the song on Folk on 2 ...I think it was a live version sung by the remaining Watersons as a tribute to Lal....would absolutely LOVE a recording of this version as we both liked the unproduced feel of it...anyone know if it is available for purchase?

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: Willa
Date: 05 Oct 09 - 11:54 AM

Bobbie
This might interest you.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Some-Old-Salty/dp/B001ILJ93E

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: GUEST,BarryE
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 09:33 AM

Anyone seeing this before the evening of Sunday 10th July 2011 can hear Lal Waterson and Oliver Knight singing 'Some Old Salty' followed by Chumbawumba's 'Salt fare, North Sea' on Genevieve Tudor's Sunday Folk on BBC iPlayer.

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: GUEST,Guest - Karen Impola
Date: 27 Jun 16 - 11:58 AM

Zombie thread alert! I just came across this song on the Martin Simpson/Andy Cutting/Nancy Kerr album "Murmurs", and started looking into it.

At about 1:45 into this video, you can hear Norma, Eliza, Martin and some other folks (can anyone identify them?) do a live version. And in the comments, someone called Taueret says "my Dad's jazz band,the 2-19 is mentioned". There's one mystery solved.

Lovely song, isn't it?

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: Reinhard
Date: 27 Jun 16 - 12:51 PM

Karen, the extended Waterson family is from left to right, Oliver Knight, Rachel Straw, Ann Waterson, Martin Carthy, Norma Waterson, Mike Waterson, Marry Waterson, Eliza Carthy, and Eleanor Waterson.

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: GUEST,Guest - Karen Impola
Date: 27 Jun 16 - 03:56 PM

Thank you, Reinhard!

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: GUEST,Kate
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 03:03 AM

Fascinating stuff. Was The Abercrombie the name of a Hull dance hall, then?

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 14 Jul 19 - 06:04 AM

Salt Fare, North Sea- Chumbawamba (with lyrics) YOUTUBE

Subject: RE: Origin: Some Old Salty - Dance Remix
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 24 - 10:58 AM

My dad (Ted Blackshaw) played trumpet and piano with the 2-19 jazz band (1957-60ish). Bands would play on the ferry across the Humber. The 2-19 also played at the Blue Bell where the Watersons sang.