(The loss of the) Ellan Vannin

Subject: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 05:42 AM

There has been quite a discussion about this song been buried in a BS: Alphabet quiz thread. I don't want that discussion to get lost for in it are a few fine links to that song (including a picture of the boat) and a correction to the lyrics in the DT. In addition to that, the spelling of the song title is different in the old threads about this song, so I think I'll try to bring the discussion together in this thread.

Wolfgang

Old threads:

Ellen Vannen

Ellan Vannin

Ellen Vannen

Ellen Vannin

ELLEN VANNEN (DT entry)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 05:43 AM

and here is a summary of the entries in the BS-Quiz thread:

(1) (IanC) E - Strangely enough she was a man, though she sank in December.

(2) (Greg Stephens) Ellen Vannin

(3) (Sharon A) Ian: Okay, obviously I don't understand the clue for "E" (Ellen Vannin), since here across the pond I'm not familiar with the terminology for a person from the Isle of
Man. I've heard the term "Manx" as an adjective, but does one say "he (or she) is Manx" (as I would say "I'm American")? And does one say "he (or she) is a
Man" (as I would say "I'm an American" or "I'm a Pennsylvanian")? ...or would one say "Mannan", or "Mannish", or what?


By the way, here's a link to lyrics for "Ellen Vannin" (for anyone else who, like me, isn't familiar with the song):
http://www.molwert.de/Lieder/Ellen_Vannin_Tragedy.htm NOTE: An mp3 of the tune plays automatically when the page appears on-screen.

(4) (Greg Stephens) Ellen Vannin is Manx Gaelic for "Isle of Man"or Man for short. he's just saying it's odd that someone
called Ellen is (a)Man.

(5) (SharonA) Please do be picky! I noticed that, in the lyrics I linked, the Hughie Jones song is entitled "The Ellen Vannin Tragedy" but the name in the lyrics themselves is spelled
"Ellen Vannen"!

Then there are the Eliza Craven Green lyrics of 1854 which render it "Ellan Vannin" as Lucy says. See this page for lyrics and music:
http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/ms1896/p070.htm

So was the poster of the Hughie Jones lyrics not sufficiently concerned with accuracy? I did a Google search on all three spellings and got many hits for each, so I
can't even tell what the correct spelling of the ship's name was!!!

(6) (Greg Stephens) Manx Gaelic has a varied written history and both spellings are completely standard.However i must say I've
never seen a photo of the nameplate on the boat, so Lucy may well be completely correct that Ellan was what was actually written on it.Anyone know for sure?
As a footnote, she was launched as "Mona's Isle". We all know what happens when you change a boat's name!

(7) (Wolfgang) On this site of Manx books there is a book advertised about the loss of the ELLAN VANNIN (this spelling; which is by the way the same as in the history of The
Isle of Man Steam Packet Co. Limited.).

(8) (IanC) Also (to be fair) the same as Hughie Jones spelt it when he wrote the song so...

(9) (Wolfgang) As an aside on Ellan Vannin: Both the lyrics in Sharon's link and in the DT have the same error in the last verse:

...A terrible storm in ninety-nine...

The tragedy was in nineteen nine (1909)

(10) (SharonA) Okay, here's a link to the lyrics with the correct year-date:
http://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/shanty/elenvann.htm

But wait... there's more! The lyrics at www.molwert.de have the first line as "Snaefell, Tyndwall and Benmachree" and the captain's name as Tier. The lyrics at
www.acronet.net say "Snaefell Tynwald, Ben-my-Chree" and spell the captain's name as Teare.

Then there's the first line of the sixth verse. Molwert.de has "Few Manxmen now remember", whereas Acronet.net has "You Manxmen now remember". Quite a
difference in meaning! Is it safe to assume that Acronet's line is correct? (There are other, less glaring, discrepancies between the two versions as well.)

When was this song written? I can't find a date for it.

(11) (Wolfgang) We should have started an extra thread for that song, but...

The Loss of the Ellan Vannin (with pictures of the ship!) seems quite reliable to me.

The name of the captain on this site (and all other sites I have seen) is Teare. The spelling of the mountain is variable and depends on to which amount the Welsh
name has been anglicised. From roughly knowing when the Spinners have been singing, the song should have been written in the 1960s (give or take a decade).
Therefore, "few Manxmen.." makes more sense to me.

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 06:45 AM

For more information of the disater follow the link from the 'History of the Isle of Man Steam packet Co. Ltd' given above through 'Chapter 3', down the page to 'Ellan Vannin' and you get to this. click here

I hope it helps.

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 07:03 AM

The information on the names of the ships on the 'history of Isle of Man staem Packet' site linked above should be correct. Therefore the names are Snaefell, Tynwald, Ben-my-Chree as in the lyrics on the robokopp site.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 07:19 AM

These three boat names give a nice picture of the Isle of Man for those unfamiliar with the place. Snaefell is the highest hill/mountain/fell. Means Snow Fell (Old Norse, lots of Viking invaders). Tynwald is the litte hill at St Johns where the parliament has been meeting for more than a thousand years (compare other places called Dingwall, Thingvellir etc etc throughout the Scandinavian world, all meaning parliament place). Ben-my Chree means woman of my heart (Manx Gaelic, lots of Irish invaders).

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 07:32 AM

Wolfgang. Snaefell, Tynwald, and Ben-my-Chree are the correct names.

Snaefell - the 'mountain' (high hill) on the island. Tynwald - name of the Manx parliament. Ben-my-Chree - woman of my heart.

As the song says 'all bearing a Manx name.'

regards

Brian

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 07:34 AM

Now look 'ere Greg. Just when I post these 'pearls of wisdom' it turns out you've just beaten me to it.

Brian

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 07:37 AM

Ah, youve got to get up early to get in before me. If they're any early worms spare tomorrow morning I'll post them to you.

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 08:00 AM

Exit mumbling "cheeky ........" I'll dig my own worms thanks. At least they'll be fresh!

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 08:29 AM

Brian,

Take comfort in the thought that the early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

Walrus

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 08:36 AM

Cheers Walrus. I prefer cheese, anyway.

Brian

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 09:07 AM

I have been trying to locate the writing date of the song - but have failed so far. I believe it was late 1960's - early 1970's. However, this came to light - passengers

It's amazing what useless information you can find.

Brian

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 09:08 AM

I should have said scan down the page to 19.

Brian

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 09:16 AM

Yeah, I'll take the cheese over the worms any day (except when the cheese "stands alone" for too long in my refrigerator! *G*).

Hey, Wolfgang, many thanks for starting this thread and pulling together all those references and the posts from Ian's Quiz thread! (By the way, in case anyone's scratching his or her head over it, I was saying "Please do be picky!" in response to a post by Lucy [Hawker] in that other thread. IMO, the more pedants, the better!)

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 11:24 AM

one site i found said it was performed on the bbc in 1976....

This is kind of odd...cause I have been thinking alot about this song lately....I have heard Dave the Ancient Mariner sing it a few times....and always wanted a recording of this song....Was it ever recorded?

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 01:14 PM

The Spinners recorded it. It can be found on "More Folk at the Phil" (Fontana TL5234).

This was part 2 of a live recording at the Liverpool Philharmonic Hall on 17th April 1964.


Doug C

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 03:34 PM

I learned it from the Spinners tape, it was one of the first I ever learned and I sang it at the World Record Singaround. Was going to follow it with 'the Titanic' but as the mood was already 'songs to slash your wrists by' I thought it would be a bit much, 2 disaster songs in one set.... like watching 'The Posiedon Adventure' after 'A Night to Remember'.

Mona's Isle was what Man used to be called.

LTS

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Snuffy
Date: 14 Jul 02 - 06:48 PM

I've just spent the weekend at the Swansea Maritime Festival - pity I didn't catch this thread before I left on Friday, because Hughie Jones was there and sang it as a request in the Queen's this afternoon. I spoke to him after his turn and could have asked him about the date if I'd known.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Mr Happy
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 03:46 AM

i always thought it was hughie jones that wrote the one the spinners did. didn't he?

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Noreen
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 05:16 AM

Yes, Mr Happy.

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: vectis
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 09:13 AM

Hughie says that he dashed the song off very quickly and it is one of his best known songs.
At least I think it was this song.....
The altzheimers is getting worse.

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 10:07 AM

The group Oisín did record it too.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: 8_Pints
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 02:57 PM

Just out of interest, I had an elderly Aunt who died a number of years ago, who had been engaged to be married to a young lad who died on the Ellen Vannin. The song always made me think of Aunty Sissy (short for Cicely). She never married, but lived into her 90s, staying true to her dead sailor - sounds like a song doesn't it!

Sue vG

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 06:58 PM

here is a recording of it: Ellan Vannin Tragedy

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 03:33 PM

hi Sharon ellen vannin is gaelic for the isle of man, there was built a shin in Glasgow roundabout 1836 she was named mona rose at first then had a refurb in Cumbria which is als north of England and was renamed ellan vannin, on 3rd of December 1909 at 1-00 am she set sail for Liverpool she made it as far as Liverpool bay when a huge wave hit her she went down wit 21 crew and 13 passengers. jim manchester

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 07:17 PM

Most everything has been said before in the threads on this song. Perhaps the most informative is 7931, Ellen Vannin/Ellan Vannin-definitive.... linked at top of this thread.

Subject: RE: (The loss of the) Ellan Vannin
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 08 Mar 14 - 08:24 AM

Just a point of interest, "Mona Isle" is also a name for the "Isle of Man"
I also had the honour of working for the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company, a few years ago, as an independent inspector of the galleys and food safety proceedures on their their ships (Sea Cats etc) and found them to be of a particular high standard.