BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters

Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:06 PM

Somehow, I'd be surprised if any Mudcatters are black. I don't know if the guys in my gospel group count, but Joe and Frankie are black, grew up in the south and had living relatives when they were kids who were freed slaves. Derrick is Jamaican and when he's not singing with us, he's in a reggae band. They all love to go to folk festivals, and Joe and Frankie in particular grew up on the Grand Old Opry and love Uncle Dave Macon, the Carter Family and many of the performers white revivalists like us love. We're slowly adding more gospel sung in a more "white" style, and they're happy with it. We do Handful of Songs together, and don't think about whether it's white or black or dalmatian.

If you try to figure out why there are so few blacks in folk music, other than the blues (and don't forget gospel,) stop and think about how all of us got involved with folk music. Very few of us have it as part of our heritage (at least over here in Amurica.) How did we become exposed to it? Burl Ives, The Weavers,The Kingston Trio, and then Dylan and Bayez, the New Lost City Ramblers, Lonnie Donnegan... all white folks. Not that it was all that way... it seems "whiter" now than it was years ago. In the fifties, we had Belefonte and Odetta, and the Tarriers in their brief history were inter-racial. In the folk revival of the sixties, there were all the old blues players, Len Chandler, Leon Bibb, Jackie Washington and several other lesser known black musicians. Even Brock Peters and Lou Gossett tried to pass themselves off as folk singers for awhile.

One thing I'd posit is whether the folk revival was much more liberal and political than the folk music of the past. I know that there have always been protest songs, but in the 60's, folk songs to a great extent became a tool for social change, not necessarily a reflection of every day social life. I remember talking with Peter La Farge once, and he observed wisely that it would be the songwriters who would take over folk music... especially those who wrote protest songs. That was before Dylan really hit big. Maybe that's why I've heard the comment that people don't like folk music because they don't like protest music.

Maybe you could ask another question. How many Mudcatters consider themselves political conservatives, aligned in philosophy with Rush Limbaugh?

Folk music over the centuries grew out of everyday life and reflected the thoughts, feelings, dreams and frustrations of a whole spectrum of people: black and white, racist and liberal. Most of us are in a sense Preservationists.

As for blacks, most of them have no idea what folk music is. Most like it when they hear it, and many say... "Oh, that's what folk music is!... We used to hear that all the time when we were kids." Much as I dislike it, I suppose that black kids are making more folk music these days than white kids. They just call it rap. Not talking blues.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:52 AM

Of course it's a reasonable question Pied Piper. I think we've had a few folks of colour around Mudcat, but not many. I'd say that the audiences at festivals I've played in Canada and the States are probably 99% caucasian with a tiny smattering of Oriental folks. What's the audience make-up for FOLK festivals in The UK?

I've known several folk and bluegrass fanatics of colour from Nova Scotia. Don't think any of them were particularily into current Black Culture music......much more Hank Snow, and Bill Monroe oriented....so I guess PART of it is simply where you wuz raised. Probably peer-pressure has a LOT to do with it as well. If I had been a BARRY MANILOW fan when I was in my twenties, I sure wouldn't have wanted my friends to find out! .....so perhaps the analogy could be taken a step farther.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:51 AM

What is unfolky about Polish polkas? I do find it difficult working out what some people mean by folk. Polkas are folk.Blues are folk. Jigs and reels are folk.Shanties are folk. Kurdish sheepherding chants are folk. Aren't they??Aren't they??

Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:48 AM

oooooooohhhhhh boy I hate to bring this up but here goes...................

The predicate for this is all wrong. It assumes that all trad music is the same. Tell Leadbelly that he wasn't playing folk music. How about Odetta? Don't forget that the trad music of the black South African is not the same as the trad music of the Cumberlands, but it is trad music just the same. I am pretty comfortable saying that there are more trad musicians in the world that are not white than there are that are white. And what difference does it make? Folk music is based on the area of its origin and the traditions of those areas. Latin American trad music, Irish trad music, Appalachian trad music, African trad music, all of these are trad music. And it is only natural that the folks that play it would, for the most part, reflect the ethnicity of the people that spawned it.


Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:41 AM

Remember the Spinners? But you're right, its unusual.The Boat Band has done a lot of tours with JC Gallow. Perhaps you would expect folk tobe more culturally/racially homogneous, though, give it's origin in longstanding cuktural habits? Notwhite, but white or black or brown or yellow depending what kind of folk isbeing played. EII represents a conscious fusion of two types of folk music so it is a rather special case.
I played in a band the other day with an English/Kurdish/Afghan/Liberian/Nigerian/Ghanaian/Kenyan lineup: it's unusual, but not as unusual as all that. And yesterday I was in a session on a boat with three Maoris, one Bosnian, four English, one Welsh and several noisy children who'd got into the percussion bag.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:34 AM

You might care to look at this thread

You're asking a reasonable question, but some people here won't see it that way...

Bon voyage...

Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:34 AM

I knew a black bluegrass banjo player years ago, and a woman who played bluegrass/folk viola....I suspect that peer pressure keeps most black musicians in certain musical areas...blues seems to be the only 'major' point of cantact in folk realms...(you don't see many Polish polka fans here either,)

Subject: Are there any Black Mudcaters
From: Pied Piper
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:28 AM

I've been playing trad music in the UK sessions for 20 years, and in all that time I've only seen one Black person playing. Are we a White middle-class middle-aged Gheto?. Over this side of the pond we have a band called Edward II that fuse Reggae with E-Ceilidh but this is the only currant band I can think of with Black members. What gives? All the best PP