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BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?

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Tweed 16 Jul 02 - 08:10 PM
GUEST 16 Jul 02 - 08:14 PM
GUEST 16 Jul 02 - 08:23 PM
SINSULL 16 Jul 02 - 09:10 PM
GUEST 16 Jul 02 - 09:11 PM
GUEST 16 Jul 02 - 09:13 PM
Tweed 16 Jul 02 - 11:34 PM
katlaughing 20 Jul 02 - 07:30 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 20 Jul 02 - 08:45 PM
GUEST,mg 20 Jul 02 - 11:50 PM
DougR 21 Jul 02 - 01:06 AM
Mountain Dog 21 Jul 02 - 10:29 AM
Bobert 21 Jul 02 - 12:35 PM
Tweed 22 Jul 02 - 07:39 PM
katlaughing 14 Nov 02 - 05:13 PM
GUEST,wdyat24 14 Nov 02 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,Rufus 14 Nov 02 - 07:47 PM
GUEST 14 Nov 02 - 10:18 PM
Bobert 14 Nov 02 - 10:32 PM
GUEST 14 Nov 02 - 11:28 PM
GUEST,wdyat24 14 Nov 02 - 11:42 PM
GUEST 15 Nov 02 - 11:32 AM
Bobert 15 Nov 02 - 11:49 AM

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Subject: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: Tweed
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 08:10 PM

Heard this on the radio today and wonder what you guys think of this latest program that der little fuhrer has come up with. This could get a little scary folks.
TIPS Program


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 08:14 PM

What do I think?

Damn glad that I don't live in the USA.

Surely this could never become law? It's so completely ill concieved it's almost laughable


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 08:23 PM

This page gives more details


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:10 PM

wellll..."if Mommy is a Commie then you've got to turn her in"

Scary. I know some mail carriers who consider it a threat to National Security to paste a stamp on upside down. Automation doesn't always read it properly and so hand cancelling is required. You have to know that crap like this will turn into "suspicious" activity. I am trying to imagine the sort of person who is going to volunteer to spy on his neighbors. And just who is going to spy on the spies? And what exactly are these "special materials" they will receive to fulfil their duties? Wonder how long before there is a black market in government issued civilian spy gear and knock offs flooding the country from Bangladesh and Taiwan. Ebay will have a Field Day.

It would be funny were it not so dangerous.


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:11 PM

According to the radio, this idea has now been 'toned down' and will only apply to public places.

Thank f**k for that, and thanks to everyone who put pressure against such stupidity

Jeez, Dubya is such an idiot, but you knew that


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:13 PM

Why am I reminded of 1950's McCarthyism?


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: Tweed
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:34 PM

Why am I reminded of 1930's Germany? Or the Soviet Union or anyplace where we've stood up and yelled our heads off about basic freedoms. We're losing control over here and giving away our rights freely. I'd think they could come up with something better than this poor excuse of a response. FEMA started off as an agency to help disaster victims and now it's been transformed into some sort of rat-your-neighbor-out secret police club. Bad idea. I can't figure where these people's heads are at anymore. Only two more years to go. Maybe it's all just been a bad dream.


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 07:30 PM

Well, this seems a victory, of sorts:

Security bill loses ID card, TIPS
By Ellen Sorokin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


    House Majority Leader Dick Armey, in his markup of legislation to create a Homeland Security Department, yesterday rejected a national identification card and scrapped a program that would use volunteers in domestic surveillance.
    Mr. Armey, chairman of the House Select Committee on Homeland Security, included language in his markup of the legislation to prohibit the Justice Department from initiating the Terrorism Information and Prevention System, also called Operation TIPS.
    Mr. Armey's bill also would create a "privacy officer" in the Homeland Security Department, which he said was the first ever established by law in a Cabinet agency. Mr. Armey said this person would "ensure technology research and new regulations from the department respect the civil liberties our citizens enjoy."
    The TIPS program would have allowed volunteers, including letter carriers and utility workers whose routines make them well-positioned to recognize suspect activities, to report suspect behavior to the Justice Department. It was scheduled to begin next month in 10 cities, with 1 million informants initially participating in the program.
    "Mr. Armey believes there are other and better ways to involve citizens in the protection of the homeland," said Richard Diamond, the congressman's press secretary. "There are traditional ways of pitching in, helping out, like becoming a volunteer firefighter."
    The 216-page bill, sponsored by Mr. Armey, Texas Republican, also bars the creation of national identification cards, despite President Bush's support for them. "Authority to design and issue these cards shall remain with the states," Mr. Armey said.
    In addition, the bill would indefinitely postpone a Dec. 31 deadline for airports to screen checked bags for explosives and would give immunity from lawsuits to some technology companies involved in national security.
    Since the announcement earlier this week of its creation, Operation TIPS has attracted criticism from across the political spectrum.
    Supporters argued that the program is aimed at encouraging people with certain jobs — those that take them into neighborhoods — to watch for suspect activity.
    Attorney General John Ashcroft's spokeswoman, Barbara Comstock, said the agency had no intention for people to enter or have access to people's homes. The idea is to organize information from people whose jobs take them through neighborhoods, Ms. Comstock said.
    Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge also defended the program. "The last thing we want is Americans spying on Americans," he said. "That's just not what the president is all about, and not what the TIPS program is all about."
    But civil rights groups, such as the American Civil Liberties Union and the conservative Rutherford Institute, said Operation TIPS could turn ordinary citizens into "government-sanctioned peeping Toms." The U.S. Postal Service also said this week that it would not allow letter carriers to be involved with the program.
    Yesterday, the groups praised Mr. Armey's decision. "Majority Leader Armey has taken a courageous step in insisting that we protect our privacy in the fight against terror," said Rachel King, an ACLU legislative counsel. "There is no place in America for either an internal passport or for utility workers and cable technicians to become government-sanctioned peeping Toms."
    Democrats also applauded the move. "I think they did a good job on the privacy issues," said House Minority Whip Nancy Pelosi of California, who also is a member of the select committee.
    The House Select Committee on Homeland Security is likely to alter the measure when it is considered today, as is the full House when it reaches the floor next week. Overall, the bill would give Mr. Bush much of the huge new Cabinet agency he requested to safeguard Americans from terrorism at home.
    The Senate has finished hearings on the new department but is not expected to take up the issue for a few weeks.
    The proposal to delay indefinitely the Dec. 31 deadline for all checked airline bags to be screened for explosives drew immediate fire from Rep. James L. Oberstar, Minnesota Democrat and ranking member on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
    In a letter to colleagues, Mr. Oberstar said the new Transportation Security Administration, which would become part of the Homeland Security Department under Mr. Armey's bill, repeatedly has assured Congress that it can meet the deadline.
    "Although this deadline is demanding, it is not impossible," Mr. Oberstar wrote, noting that the law allows each airport to set a new, unlimited deadline if the Dec. 31 date cannot be met.
    Republican leaders and Democrats also continued to negotiate whether to give Mr. Bush flexibility in making personnel decisions, which the president said he needs to respond quickly to terrorist threats. Opponents say it could wreck civil service workers' protections and undermine unions collective bargaining.
    Key lawmakers also reached an agreement with the White House to give Mr. Bush some authority to transfer up to 2 percent of the money in the Homeland Security Department budget for two years, with some strings attached, instead of the 5 percent discretionary power he had sought.
    • This article is based in part on wire service reports.


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 08:45 PM

From SINSULL's post above: "I know some mail carriers who consider it a threat to National Security to paste a stamp on upside down."

'Tis because an incredibly large percentage of U.S. Postal Service employees are retired military. You know, put in your twenty or thirty years, retire as a colonel and start a second career, still with the government. If you think the military mindset goes away when these guys hang up their fatigues and put on Postal Service walking shorts, I've got a nice bridge in NYC that's for sale. It would be their "patriotic duty" to play cloak & dagger for Uncle Sam.

Fortunately, our house is 1/4 mi. off the road and the mailperson has never been down our driveway. UPS and the meter reader come back here, but I know them and they would probably tell Dubya where he could stick his TIPS.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 11:50 PM

We can be vigilant or we can be dead. Not too many other choices that I see. That doesn't mean spying on neighbors, but I think we should all be monitoring certain things....water supplies, power stations, coastal areas...

mg


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: DougR
Date: 21 Jul 02 - 01:06 AM

Let's hear it for Dick Armey!!! Hip Hip Hooray!!! :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 21 Jul 02 - 10:29 AM

Has anyone read the novel "Memoirs Found in a Bathtub" by Stanislaw Lem? A harrowing journey into the mind of a thought-spy and his nighmarish world in which paranoia is the only constant. Can't imagine why it should have come to mind recently, but there you have it...


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jul 02 - 12:35 PM

Well, Tweezer, like Ronnie Raygun once said, "There you go again!" I mean, heck, everything is going along real good and you gotta go stir up this stuff. Like, here you go talkin' about Germany in the 30's like you was there. Heck, couldn't have been that bad, right? (Ahhhhhh, Bobert, you weren't there either.) So what? All that stuff has gotten too much attention. Like so what if John Asscroft wnats to get us spying on each other? Hey, sounds like a good excuse when ya get caught lookin' thru your neihgbors bathroom window checkin' out his wife in the shower. "Ahhhhhh, Your Honor, I thought she had a box cutter in there with her..." Used to be that ya' had be gettin' a paycheck from Uncle Sam to spy on your neibor's wife in the shower... This is a major step forward fir man-kind, Tweezer. You're only mad 'cause your neighbor's wife looks like my couzin Rufus's wife, Rethea May...

And while Iz on the subject, hey, that Constitution ain't all it's cracked up to be either and that's why Mr. Bush don't give a rip about it. Hey, it's old and all those guys adead now who wrote it so what are they gonna do to him? Nuthin, that's what, and he knows it... And folks say he ain't too bright. Well, he's smart 'nuff to know that he don't have to fear dead folks which is the 6th question on the Wes Ginny I.Q. test. (Don't ask the first five unless you have some knowledge of possums, tattoo's and Iron City Beer.)

Speakin of Rufus, he and Retha May just stopped by and he's got somethin' he'd like to say. Okay, Rufe, your turn.

Yoz, Tweidsr. Mah daddi sade dat Mystir Joo Carthie waz a fine feller an ifinz et wernt fir hem den weed be taukin Rushin an Chimnese, radder dan gud ol ahh Mericanese. Bobberdz toad me dat yo waz one of dem fellerz dat sliped tru der krakz der las tyme da roundid up der commonestz an nowz Iz ssez jus whad he meens... Bud I likes ya enywaz, Twezder... Seez ya 'round der berg.

Well, Tweezer, looks like me and Rufus got you straightened out again... And just keep in mind that them rights stuff ain't half as important as a SUV in every driveway. Right?

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: Tweed
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 07:39 PM

Yes! What the hell was I thinkin' Boberdzr? My policies are the same as the President's and recommend that we all go out and sign the papers fer a brand new gas-guzzler. Yer right again as usual. Paranoid? Hellfire, my name ain't Mohammed or Farouk so I got nothin' to be paranoid about over here. Please disregard this dumbass unfounded post. I'm just one of them half-wits that runs loose in here on occasion. Please go back to Fox news for the latest. I think the Prez is about to go on his month long vacation while the economy is goin' to hell.
Hey Rufus, how's that batch of "corn" doin' these days?


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 05:13 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 06:34 PM

Everyone of us now is under Homeland Security surveilance.

wdyat24


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST,Rufus
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 07:47 PM

Well, Hell, wadzdat 25 or 4. Wadz rong wid spyin' on fokz enyway. Hex, some deese boz back en dis hollerd need som spi-in on. Da back dar drenkin corn leeker and gotz der funnee cigrettes and dem dirtee magnazines an' so Iz gonna tele dat Mr. Rige an' hez gonna break em up an' make em go to his church an' day gonnaz git dem boyz bak on der trax.

An Iz toad Rether mayz to rite Mr. Rige an' tell Mr. Rige dat Iz willinz to spi on eny wons dat he wanz me to. An' Iz'll do et cauze is an Mericcan and not no commernix.

Gol blez Mericca.

Rufus


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:18 PM

I was going to let this die - but since KatLaughing believes it should be refreshed.

A series of statments, linked to distinctly identified posters has been forwarded to the appropriate government agency. -

All items were collected from the MudCat threads - a few of you, in the near future, can expect a knock on the door explaining the aid and succor you have relished upon the enemy.

We are at war folks. These are not "normal times."

A little monetary reward for Max's contribution in the gathering evidence for the homeland defence could go a long way towards helping pay his bills.


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:32 PM

Two words: Joe McCarthy.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:28 PM

YES!!! Bobert. We are all subject to the NEW McCarthism. We are all subjects of the latest witchhunt.

wdyat24


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:42 PM

Some of us have been buttering our bread for a long, long time; and we have known which side it is buttered on. The chickens will come home to roost.


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 11:32 AM

Perhaps a little reverse psychology is in order. If everybody (and I mean everybody) did a little something that could be construed as suspicious or required an investigation, the 'system' would be so overloaded that only the truly suspicious stuff would warrant attention. The bar would be raised and the only people who would have to worry about freedom of speech and privacy issues would be the ones who stood heads and shoulders above the general level of subversiveness. The outcome would be that Homeland Security would be forced to accept a 'reasonable' amount of healthy reactionism.

After all, 'they' couldn't put everybody in jail for making anti-government statements, could they? Who would be left to pay taxes? Let me get the ball rolling by quoting my favorite Founding Father, Thomas Jefferson: "The government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." Pretty radical stuff.

In fact, a case could be made encouraging such disobedience as part of our patriotic duty. Part of the reason we have a United States is because a few English subjects were pissed off about paying taxes on tea. What would these people think about what's going on today?


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Subject: RE: BS: TIPS program/Homeland Security?
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 11:49 AM

Well, GUEST, there's an element of truth in Jefferson's thoughts. I live in an area where we don't see many police cars because we don't have many police and there's hardly any crime. Hmmmmmm? Which came first the cops or the crooks?

I moved from an area (Northern Virginia) that used to have very few cops and today it has thousands of cops and a mega court complex and big ol' jail.

Just food for thought.

Bobert


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Mudcat time: 19 April 7:44 PM EDT

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