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Jazz, anyone?

keberoxu 08 Nov 18 - 01:58 AM
Will Fly 07 Nov 18 - 02:52 AM
PHJim 06 Nov 18 - 10:55 PM
keberoxu 06 Nov 18 - 01:14 PM
Helen 05 Nov 18 - 07:51 PM
GUEST,keberoxu 05 Nov 18 - 06:22 PM
Helen 05 Nov 18 - 06:07 PM
keberoxu 05 Nov 18 - 05:58 PM
GUEST,ripov 05 Nov 18 - 05:55 PM
keberoxu 05 Nov 18 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,ripov 03 Nov 18 - 08:09 PM
keberoxu 03 Nov 18 - 04:11 PM
Joe_F 09 Sep 11 - 08:15 PM
Bettynh 01 Aug 11 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,josepp 01 Aug 11 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 01 Aug 11 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,John Foxen 01 Aug 11 - 11:40 AM
Lox 31 Jul 11 - 09:16 PM
Stringsinger 31 Jul 11 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 31 Jul 11 - 04:50 AM
GUEST,John Foxen 30 Jul 11 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 30 Jul 11 - 06:22 AM
Will Fly 30 Jul 11 - 05:51 AM
Lox 29 Jul 11 - 11:45 PM
Stringsinger 29 Jul 11 - 03:42 PM
Stringsinger 29 Jul 11 - 03:17 PM
olddude 29 Jul 11 - 12:14 PM
gnu 28 Jul 11 - 02:49 PM
Lox 28 Jul 11 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,mike 28 Jul 11 - 03:08 AM
Lox 27 Jul 11 - 08:27 PM
fat B****rd 27 Jul 11 - 02:50 PM
GUEST,bankley 27 Jul 11 - 12:01 PM
GUEST 27 Jul 11 - 07:55 AM
Genie 03 Aug 02 - 04:00 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 03 Aug 02 - 07:01 AM
Genie 03 Aug 02 - 01:07 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 02 Aug 02 - 11:38 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 02 Aug 02 - 09:32 PM
Genie 27 Jul 02 - 11:46 PM
Susan A-R 27 Jul 02 - 06:42 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Jul 02 - 12:41 PM
Lonesome EJ 27 Jul 02 - 12:24 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 27 Jul 02 - 07:45 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 27 Jul 02 - 02:30 AM
Genie 27 Jul 02 - 12:48 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Jul 02 - 10:14 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Jul 02 - 10:12 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 26 Jul 02 - 10:08 PM
Genie 26 Jul 02 - 02:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Nov 18 - 01:58 AM

This instrumental is only ten years old.
Other musicians are all over it -- I just heard it for the first time.

Strasbourg St Denis by the Roy Hargrove Quintet


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Nov 18 - 02:52 AM

I've played in jazz outfits and occasionally as a solo guitarist for over 50 years - in between playing rock'n roll, funk and folk music! I first heard "traditional" (in the UK) jazz in the late '50s, when there was a vogue for that music here, and started playing in a 7-piece mainstream band around 1978. I was with them for about 5 years before peeling off to play other music and, in that time, played with people like trumpeter Humphrey Lyttelton, clarinettist Monty Sunshine and tenor player Danny Moss. All great experiences in a period which taught me a huge amount about music, improvisation, transposition, etc.

My current "hero", if one can have such a thing in one's mid-70s, is New York guitarist Woody Mann, who studies with Reverend Gary Davis as a teenager, then went to Juillard and also studies with Lennie Tristano. I've taken the plunge and signed up for Woody's 3-day guitar "retreat" in Buxton, Darbyshire next June. I don't know whether I'll be up to the assorted standards there, but it will be a wonderful experience.

And so it goes on.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: PHJim
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 10:55 PM

I'm always amazed to see these 16 year old threads revived.
I became a jazz fan in the mid-sixties. With some high-school buddies, I'd often hitch-hike to Buffalo or Toronto from Dundas to hear performers like Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie, Jim Hall, Cannonball Adderley, Nina Simone, Bill Evans, Junior Mance, Jimmy Smith, Oscar Peterson, Herb Ellis, Joe Williams, Gabor Szabo, Chico Hamilton, Herbie Hancock, Barney Kessel. . .
In 1968-69 I was hitch-hiking overseas and in London I broke my "Pound a day" rule and went to Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club. I was watching Jack McDuff play when I noticed three familiar faces at the next table. I knew I had seen them, probably on an album cover or in downbeat magazine.
Then Jack McDuff said, "I'm going to ask a friend of mine to come up and do a tune or two. That's John Hendricks sitting over there with Bill Cosby and Clarence Williams III."


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Nov 18 - 01:14 PM

There are links to recorded performances, by Roy Hargrove,
in this online article from The Guardian.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Helen
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 07:51 PM

I haven't heard any Dizzy Gillespie for quite a while but I used to like his style.

I'm just reminding myself about Charlie Bird Parker's work, i.e. listening to a video of All the Things You Are. I probably haven't heard much of his work, so I'm not sure. But I usually like "raucous" music (all styles) more than the laid-back type.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 06:22 PM

Well, Helen, I didn't watch the series --
but I take it that the parts you watched
included Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie,
what did you make of them?


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Helen
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 06:07 PM

Genie, on 23 Jul 02 - 02:02 AM mentioned the wonderful Ken Burns series called Jazz. I watched it avidly up to the era of Miles Davis* and never finished watching the series. The evolution of jazz, the social foundations of jazz, the issues of social justice, and the music are all fascinating to me. I have always loved the jazz, swing, dixieland and ragtime styles.

The first person on my list to meet in the after life is Mr Armstrong. He's my hero, and as someone in the Jazz series described him, a genius.

My list of jazz greats is pretty long, and most have been mentioned already.

I don't relate to the modern non-melodic, all-over-the-place rhythm "jazz" so much.

I have not spent time trying to get into the Miles Davis era of jazz so much. I would probably like it if I spent the time understanding it, but I doubt if I would love it like I love the jazz, swing, dixieland and ragtime styles.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 05:58 PM

I started a thread, a while back, about singer Betty Carter.
It turned into an obit thread because
no obit thread existed for her, up to then;
she has in fact been dead for the better part of twenty years I believe.

She started out, my homework showed me,
a most compliant young thing, willing to compromise and harmonize.

She turned militant and high-spirited,
and her career was as divisive as it was attractive.

For me, Betty Carter is not perfection, and did not have to be --
she is one of those who push the limits of what is possible.
And I admired the courage of her convictions
and her tenacity in publishing her own recordings when
no one else would produce her or offer her a contract.

I couldn't be Betty Carter if I tried,
and I don't expect everybody to hold to her standards.
For all that, I'm awfully glad she came, and stayed, as long as she did.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 05:55 PM

Sorry, not on a theme, but on a ground. That is in formal terms a ground bass. Or in more modern terms a bass riff. Concept sound familiar?


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: keberoxu
Date: 05 Nov 18 - 01:05 PM

I wonder where the Mills Brothers fit in?
They truly are from a century that is now history.
The Mills Brothers used to execute, in public,
an arrangement of Ellington's Black and Tan, what was it, symphony?
NOT Black Brown and Beige, that's a different piece.

And one of the Mills Brothers' earliest recordings is
"Hold That TI - GER! [grrr!]"


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 08:09 PM

While connecting jazz to english folk may seem a bit of a stretch, Christopher Simpson's book 'Divisions on the Viol' basically explains how to improvise on a theme, and many 3/2 hornpipes are played as sets of improvisations, or at least variations. And also lot of 'art' music of that period when english music took the world by storm. So it's closer, at least in spirit, than you might think!


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Nov 18 - 04:11 PM

Another established jazz musician just died.
I started an Obit thread for him -- Roy Hargrove.
He came from Waco, Texas, and he died of kidney disease
before his fiftieth birthday arrived.

His reputation is tremendous,
the accolades and outpourings of emotion are filling the internet.
His fellow musicians are grieving.

Jerry Rasmussen, who started this thread,
listens to his recordings.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Joe_F
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:15 PM

It has become clear to me over the years that I am completely missing a huge range of emotional responses to music that other people find both obvious & important. However, what is left over may still be worth mentioning. What endears jazz (& classical music) to me is empathy for the performers. They sound like they're having fun.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Bettynh
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 12:37 PM

Django and Grapelli "Lambeth Walk"


Blues and tibetan throat-singing


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 12:20 PM

Anything with Neils Pedersen on bass, Bill Evans with either Eddie Gomez or Scott LaFaro on bass, Junko Onishi, and I love Martin, Medeski & Wood. As for fusion, I'll always love Brand X. Stan Kenton with either Anita O'Day or June Christie. Kenny Drew with Paul Chambers. Irene Kral. Oscar Peterson. Esperanza, of course.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 11:51 AM

There isn't much fol-de-rol in mongolian, hungarian, peruvian or tibeten folk music

I guess they don't derive from English Folk Music either...


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 01 Aug 11 - 11:40 AM

For a glorious meeting of the English musical tradition, the French tradition, Gypsy music and Jazz you could always listen to Django and Stephan playing The Lambeth Walk.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Lox
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 09:16 PM

There isn't much fol-de-rol in mongolian, hungarian, peruvian or tibeten folk music ...


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 11:38 AM

Jazz has become an international language. Euro-jazz is different from American jazz as is Asian, Middle Eastern, Hispanic etc. Today every nation can claim jazz as they do it as their own.

Improvisation is at the root of jazz and is not new. Mozart could do it as well as a New Orleans street musician.

English folk song as the root of jazz? I don't think so which doesn't devalue English folk music. There is a tendency in all music to conform to an idea of its native form and development and deviation from that is not tolerated. This is the case with English folk song, American Bluegrass, child ballad singing or any other rigid ideas about performing such music.

Jazz helps us to realize just how interconnected and fluid music is. All forms of music are amalgams of earlier forms adapted to new times. Too many folk musicians tend to be antiquarian in their nostalgia ignoring that the music that they prefer was at one time new and different. Bach considered the dominant seventh chord dissonant in his day requiring immediate resolution. The flatted-fifth be bop chord would have been burned at the musical stake in those days.

Music has to be understood as different languages for varied cultures and nations.
You put on a different set of ears to listen to Jeannie Robertson or Margaret Barry,
Almeda Riddle, Horton Barker, or Texas Gladden then you do to hear Bird, Monk or Trane, Louis, Tatum, etc., each having its own musical parameters to understanding it.

The origin of the term "blues" may have come from William Shakespeare's "blue devils" but what we familiarly know as the blues is from American south, Mississippi, Alabama, etc.which is not to say that it couldn't be applied to any sad, deep music from Flamenco "conte hondo" to Irish "keening" or the shepherd's horn on the Steppes of Central Asia (see the opening bars of Stravinky's Rites of Spring).

Musical terms are continuing to be redefined such as "folk" or "jazz" as different languages grow and borrow from each other creating new words.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 04:50 AM

The real link between folk & jazz is in A L Lloyd's po-faced & quite racist intro to The Penguin Book of Folk Songs in which he claims that a search for the roots of of Jazz will lead The Astonished Enthusiast back to English Folk Song. The roots of Jazz are rich and complicated I accept, probably a good deal richer & more complicated than anyone can ever fully appreciate, but when I listen to Louis Armstrong (Hot Fives!), Art Tatum, Duke Ellington, Dizzy Gillespie, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Rahsaan Roland Kirk or Sun Ra I'm not digging too much fol-de-rol in there, know what I'm saying?

But then again, you might hear something that fills your heart with a native familiarity - a distintive North English Soul in which The Blues comes keening over the bleak and blasted North York Moors and touches your heart so deep it just has to be true love. As the tears fill your eyes, then you might think of a whole other sort of Folk Music, and you'd be right...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh8SbL3xQPE


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 09:58 AM

Strange that no one has so far mentioned all the crossover between jazz and folk that has been going on for 50 years or more: Davey Graham playing Grooveyard (Carl Perkins) and Better Git It Into Your Soul (Mingues); Danny Thompson playing Haitian Fight Song (Mingus); John Renbourn playing among others Little Niles; David Grisman jamming with Sephan Grappelli and of course Ewan MacColl bringing in the "the Dirty Bopper" to add a sweet blues sound to Dirty Old Town.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 06:22 AM

Jazz ain't Folk and Folk ain't Jazz. Vive la différence!


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 05:51 AM

Hey Dan - try this for size - The Love Nest - which I've posted here before. Sweet tune from the 1920s, great chord sequence, lovely melody - and a little bit of fun with different stringed instruments.

Just a bit of fluff... say "Goodnight", Gracie...


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Lox
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 11:45 PM

Hey Old dude

Here's something you might enjoy ...

The Song is an old folk song in the traditional sense ...

The Piano style is "folk" jazz ... i.e. it involves a particular kind of Jazz Harmony that falls within the jazz sub genre of "folk"...

The genre is definitely Jazz as the development of the tune, its arrangement and the harmony are all spontaneous ...

and the Pianist is as modern a Jazz Player as they come!

I won't attempt to classify it, but I will recommend it as a piece of astonishingly beautiful music.


          Enjoy .....


.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:42 PM

Bix, Bunk, Sassy, Trummy, Miff, T., MJQ, ODJB, NORK, Django, Salvatore Massaro, Bechet, the Dukes, Christian,Hackett and Haggard, Fela and on and on it goes.



I found out that jazz is folk music. It has a rich tradition, an identifiable lineage, cultural connections, constant variations, (variants), worldwide expression and recognition, constant creativity and when you really think about it, all music is somehow connected as the science of the auditory building of sound.

We make arbitrary distinctions in music when it's all the same process. When you are trained in music, you learn to appreciate a wide range.

Genie, what I meant is that my wife and I do the same music as you.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 03:17 PM

Thw words Jazz and rock have the same root. Jazz, originally spelled jass was a euphemism from the New Orleans house of ill repute meaning you-know-what. Rock has its roots in such lyrics as "My baby rocks me all night long."

Genie, this is what me and my wife do. We have ukes, different sizes of guitars and tenor banjos.

I grew up listening to Louis, oddly, Glenn Miller, later Bird then everything from Kid Ory,
Octave Crosby to Esperanza Spalding including:
Pres, Ella, Diz, the Judge, Lady Day, Miles, Trane, McCoy, The Hawk, Duke, Count, Hamp,
Fats, Tatum, Sweets, Brubeck, Tristano, Chet, of course Bird, Maravishnu, Konitz, of course Satch, Big Eye, Slow Drag,Stuff, Belson, Benny, Zutty, Big Sid,


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: olddude
Date: 29 Jul 11 - 12:14 PM

I really like it, I admit that I don't understand Jazz very well. I saw Kenny G listed under Jazz in one of the stores. All I do know is Kenny G ain't jazz.

can't handle that guys music ..

The New Orleans stuff ... love it .. old time jazz love it ..
some of the modern jazz .. I don't get .. I wish I knew more.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 02:49 PM

Keith is on You Tube... check out the vids.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Lox
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 08:05 AM

Well then there's the sub-genre of Jazz known as Folk - not to be confused with Folk as we know it, but a valid Genre nonetheless.

Last night I went to see one of its greatest proponents, Keith Jarrett, at the Festival Hall in london.

Beautiful it was too.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,mike
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 03:08 AM

i think Louis armstromg that great JAZZ muso once said that
all music was FOLK music, i a'nt never heard a mule sing a song
i thought early jazz & blues were part of the great FOLK genre


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Lox
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:27 PM

Yup - into Jazz - Sometimes I play it too ...


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 02:50 PM

Guest Martin Philpott. It was I believe Marie Knight.
Charlie


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 12:01 PM

yup.... I have a fine Eastman oval hole archtop with flatwound strings in my arsenal... it's a handmade copy of an early Gibson L4 that was favoured by Eddie Lang before f-hole archtops were introduced in the 1920`s... special sound... I`ve been learning some Joe Pass things, Lenny Breau harmonic clusters to go with the Manouche swing...

I heard the word ``jazz`` itself came from the French Creole word jasser, to talk or `rap`... could be, coming from New Orleans and all..


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:55 AM

martin philpott
does anyone know the name of the singer who appeared with Humphrey Lyttleton in the late 50's early 60's at the hermitage halls in hitchin


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Genie
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 04:00 PM

THREAD CREEP ALERT!
Jerry, yeah, the towns had merged geographically, but not in a legal sense. Can't recall specific examples, but I know there were things you could do on one side of the street that was the main boundary between the towns but could get arrested for (or a ticket for) if you did them on the other side of the street.

(BTW, for reasons I never knew, the town's name is spelled "Champaign.")

I was in Urbana-Champaign from the fall of 1963 through the summer of 1969. I had a guitar and played and sang with friends whenever I could, but the only paid gig I recall having was at a bowling alley. They paid my partner and me $10 and a stack of their logo ashtrays! I did spots at a couple of "hootenannies," but in those days I hadn't gotten over my stagefright in front of big, unfamiliar audiences when I sang solo, so I'm sure I didn't play and sing my best in those spots. Steve Goodman was there, as a senior, in 1963-4, and he used to play at a coffeehouse called The Red Herring. Did you ever hear him, or had you left by the time he came to U of I?

Genie


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 07:01 AM

Champagne/Urbana, eh? Gee, maybe I saw you there, Genie. Back in 1959 I was working on my Master's thesis in Geology and spent a lot of time at Champagne/Urbana. One thing that I found very amusing was that the building that housed the Geology department straddled the line between the two towns. Of course, they had merged into one town, so it wasn't a long distance call from one end of the building to the other. When I went to Columbia University, I ended up back in Champagne/Urbana and the surrounding area, collecting fossils for a Doctoral degree which I decided not to pursue. But, I ended up getting some good songs out of a disastrous summer. At least five songs from my first album came out of that summer, including one about a hitchiker I picked up on the way to Dixon. I found out several years later that Dixon was Ronald Reagan's hometown so I sent him an album and got a nice letter back. (No, I didn't vote for him, even though he is a good Midwest boy.) I offered to come and sit on the porch of the White House and pick a few tunes for him if his job was ever getting to him, but he never took me up on it. :-)

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Genie
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 01:07 AM

No apology really needed, Garg. I just didn't understand your post. Now I do.

John Cage, FWIW, was teaching at the Univ. of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign while I was a grad student there. His escapades (like using folks banging on folding chairs as music) were quite notorious, of course. I never got to hear one of his concerts, though. (Too busy studying, when I wasn't drinking beer and/or playing folk music.)

One thing I'm curious about though: I know Cage's music is considered "experimental" (Duh...), but is it considered jazz?

Genie


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 11:38 PM

Case cleared. Thanks, Gargoyle... :-)

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 02 Aug 02 - 09:32 PM

Sorry Genie - I apologize - I mistook your *G*... grin for a disparaging sneer in regard to silence is music personally, I am not a John Cage-o-phile but he has his place in history.

Mea Culpa,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Genie
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 11:46 PM

Gargoyle, yes I am a musician, of sorts (piano and violin lessons, a lot of choir experience, can read sheet music, and have been playing guitar for over 40 years, in addition to writing songs) -- but I would hardly call myself a jazz musician (though I sing a lot of "jazz standards" and can even scat a little), and I consider my knowledge of music theory rudimentary.

I'm not sure, though, what prompted the comment/question about my not being a musician.  Of course, "the "rest" is one of the most powerful elements in ... music...unfortunately the novice tends to rush it and not."  It's one of my pet peeves in some jams and sing-alongs that a lot of folks have no concept of the rest in music==or for the idea of measures and sustained notes either, for that matter.  But, as you acknowledge, this applies to all music, not just jazz.  So I repeat -- with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek ---, if to  "...take jazz to the limits... you arrive at John Cage..." (the man who copyrighted silence),  then, is silence jazz?  (I'll even grin again: *G*)

 Genie


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Susan A-R
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 06:42 PM

The jazz musician in my household is just hauling the keyboard and amp into the house now as I write. There's a lot of Bill Evans, Monk, Brubeck and such happening in our living room. I now and then work on Strayhorn tunes, and love what Ella, Billy and Sarah, Mel, Nat and Tony do vocally. Nice thread. Jerry, probably when you were up here in VT. Michael was playing somewhere in the Burlington Area. Check in if you get up here in the fall and I'll see what is happening for jazz, folk, food and foliage.

Susan


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 12:41 PM

Hi, Lonesome: (Didn't they make a documentary about you?.. High Lonesome Sound?):-)

I tend to love the female jazz singers most, myself. I'd add one of my great favorites, Carmen McRae to the list, and for late night jazz, I can always listen to June Christie. At one time, I really loved Frank Sinatra, but he became a characiture of himself in later years. Mel Torme could always swing with the best of them, and I like Tony Bennett, too. I liked him even before MTV discovered him.

All that said, I love instrumental jazz, too... I find the "voices" just as expressive, with textures and nuances that are different but just as exciting to me. I tend to like jazz singers who sing with small groups, rather than full orchestras. I love Ella Fitzgerald's music and she always had good instrumentation behind her, but I would have loved to hear her more with just piano, drums, bass and guitar behind her... I loved her two vocals on the soundtrack of Pete Kelly's Blues for that reason.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 12:24 PM

Jazz to me is notable for its improvisation, its exploratory nature, and its eclectic instrumentation. I am not, however, a big fan of purely instrumental forms. I find jazz that uses vocals more interesting, with some exceptions. Kind of Blue is still my favorite Jazz album, mainly because of the amazing contrast of styles by Davis, Coltrane, and Adderly. I also was, at an early age, a big fan of the Oscar Peterson Trio. The female voice seems to lend itself to the improvisational aspects of Jazz, and I like to listen to Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, and the greatest, Sarah Vaughn. And speaking of Folkies...Joni Mitchell has some great Jazz material in her body of work.


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 07:45 AM

Hi, Genie: I seem to be running into you on several threads these days. And yes, Gargoyle, Genie IS a MUSICIAN.:-)

And Mister Gargoyle, Sir, one of the three B's has probably been swung and rocked more than any classical musician... Mr. Bach. Just as there is a strong connection between New Orleans jazz and blues, there is an equally strong relationship between Bach and alot of "Modern" jazz of the sixties. I have many recordings by small jazz groups of variations on tunes written by Mr. Bach, and there is a very similar feel in the playfulness of the improvisation. A good jazz musician can make music on a sheet of paper "swing," and I'm sure that Mr. Bach had his swinging moments. Even rock musicians have drawn on Bach... the Nice did a great swinging version of a Bach piece that segued into a Dylan song. What do you get when you take jazz to it's limits? I didn't realize it had any. :-)

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 02:30 AM

Genie - I take it - YOU are NOT a musician?

The "rest" is one of the most powerful elements in ALL of music...ANY type of music....including jazz....unfortunately the novice tends to rush it and not appreciate its full effect.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Genie
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 12:48 AM

Gargoyle, "...take jazz to the limits and you arrive at John Cage." OK. Then, is silence jazz? *G*

Genie


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 10:14 PM

Sorry, that final MUCH should have been......... MORE


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 10:12 PM

Genie - You are also wrong

Jazz is much, much, Much, MUCH, than variation and them....take jazz to its limits and you arrive at John Cage.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 10:08 PM

Genie - you are right!

There have been some very creative nights with chamber ensembles "winging it." Some of the greatest music ever played never made its way to commercial distribution.

The genius came from the original composer … but…exhaustion, and boredom… give rise to the Muse of play and the musicians soar into planes never imagined two centuries ago.

Whether it is classical or folk…the insecure and the anal-minded…are quick to criticize with, …"But, but, but, THAT is NOT how it is SUPPOSED to be done."

Don't get me wrong – the masters should be played and interpreted in traditional forms…but, but, but, EVEN THE MASTERS had fun and played around and created themes and variations. Mr. Mozart was a playful trickster, as were the three B's in making fun of their predecessors.

Creativity springs from the foundations of our culture and training. We are currently in the clove-of-a-vortex-change creating a hybrid born of classical, rock, rap, ska, techno, blues, jazz.... and most importantly, an immediate-internet-spawned….international exchange of musical expression.

Work Hard, Have Fun, Play Around

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Jazz, anyone?
From: Genie
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 02:55 AM

Interesting definition, Gargoyle. It begs the question: Couldn't classical music then be "jazz" if the composer--say, Beethoven--had a recording device and instead of writing out the score, just performed the variations on a theme live? Or if you had the chamber music quartet "wing it," even if it ended up with the same kind of sound a classical quartet usually has? Is it the act of scoring the music that makes it "not jazz?"

Genie


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