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BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails

GUEST 22 Jul 02 - 08:18 AM
harvey andrews 22 Jul 02 - 08:40 AM
Bullfrog Jones 22 Jul 02 - 09:24 AM
MudGuard 22 Jul 02 - 09:38 AM
John J 22 Jul 02 - 10:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 22 Jul 02 - 10:54 AM
Skipjack K8 22 Jul 02 - 11:02 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 22 Jul 02 - 11:18 AM
Linda Kelly 22 Jul 02 - 03:30 PM
Liz the Squeak 22 Jul 02 - 04:46 PM
GUEST,Sponge 22 Jul 02 - 05:28 PM
John Routledge 22 Jul 02 - 05:37 PM
Skipjack K8 22 Jul 02 - 05:39 PM
The Walrus 22 Jul 02 - 05:56 PM
Gareth 22 Jul 02 - 06:47 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 22 Jul 02 - 07:35 PM
Liz the Squeak 23 Jul 02 - 01:36 AM
Skipjack K8 23 Jul 02 - 05:51 AM
Mr Red 23 Jul 02 - 07:35 AM
Liz the Squeak 23 Jul 02 - 05:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jul 02 - 06:43 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 23 Jul 02 - 07:36 PM
Liz the Squeak 23 Jul 02 - 08:01 PM
alanabit 24 Jul 02 - 07:30 AM
greg stephens 24 Jul 02 - 08:00 AM
Mr Red 24 Jul 02 - 08:15 AM
Ritchie 24 Jul 02 - 08:19 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 24 Jul 02 - 08:20 AM
Ritchie 24 Jul 02 - 08:38 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 24 Jul 02 - 09:35 AM
C-flat 24 Jul 02 - 10:28 AM
Mrs.Duck 24 Jul 02 - 01:59 PM
greg stephens 24 Jul 02 - 02:13 PM
greg stephens 24 Jul 02 - 02:14 PM
alanabit 24 Jul 02 - 02:26 PM
Gareth 24 Jul 02 - 07:02 PM
greg stephens 24 Jul 02 - 07:20 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 24 Jul 02 - 08:48 PM
greg stephens 25 Jul 02 - 04:28 AM
Skipjack K8 25 Jul 02 - 08:59 AM
Mr Red 26 Sep 02 - 07:21 PM
Bullfrog Jones 27 Sep 02 - 07:48 AM
Fiolar 27 Sep 02 - 09:07 AM
Sonnet 27 Sep 02 - 03:25 PM
Liz the Squeak 28 Sep 02 - 03:43 AM
GUEST,Les Jones 28 Sep 02 - 03:54 AM
The Walrus 28 Sep 02 - 04:55 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 18 Jun 03 - 12:06 PM
Mrs.Duck 18 Jun 03 - 12:54 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Jun 03 - 02:10 PM

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Subject: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 08:18 AM

However good/bad/indifferent your life might be right now, your mood will be improved by the news that Jeffrey Archer has failed in his appeal and will stay in prison.

Cheers up the bleakest of days.

Hip, hip, horray!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: harvey andrews
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 08:40 AM

And now Van Hoogstraten!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 09:24 AM

The judge probably didn't understand his appeal. I never have!

BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: MudGuard
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 09:38 AM

Is that Jeffrey Archer, the author?

What did he do to get into prison?

(sorry for my ignorance)


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: John J
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 10:14 AM

He was a Tory.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 10:54 AM

Perjury and perverting the course of justice. And trying to be like Alan B'stard...


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 11:02 AM

Whilst I genuinely loathed the Thatcher vehicle, I was sneakingly ambivalent towards Geoffrey, and his complete vilification for a couple of porkies has surprised me. Had he been a football manager, he'd be managing Leeds United now.

Skipjack


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 11:18 AM

Jeffrey Archer isn't the worst kind of Tory and I for one was glad to see a bit of colour in politics, wherever it came from. In plenty of countries (eg France) what he got up to with a prostitute would never have been a matter of public concern anyway.

He shouldn't have lied and he shouldn't have nicked a couple of suits nor done various other madcap things, and maybe he deserves to be banged up. I just don't see it as something worth celebrating. Anyway, he's tasted dirt before and bounced back. I expect he'll do so again.

Exactly right about El Tel, Skipjack (and I'm a lifelong Leeds fan).


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 03:30 PM

It wasn't one lie -he had a whole lifetime of them! He lied about his education, his qualifications and his business dealings -he was rotten to the core!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 04:46 PM

And he cheated at sports too!

The man is so twisty he makes a corkscrew look straight.

Mary insists that he gave all the money he got from the libel proceedings to charity, which may be so, but only after it had paid for a nice little shed in the garden where Jeffrey could scribble his appalling novels (approx. cost over £60,000 - some shed eh?) and some other important necessities for the wine cellar.....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: GUEST,Sponge
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 05:28 PM

> and some other important necessities for the wine cellar.....

hey, LTS, you of all people know how important it is to keep a good wine cellar..... but he is a worm and lying in court is not a thing to be got away with. See Ya Soon, S.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: John Routledge
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 05:37 PM

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy!!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 05:39 PM

Come on, Betty, he's less popular than Harold Shipman, and even as far as Fleet Street's febrile imagination stretches, noone has suggested he supported flyovers. I still maintain, rascal that he is, if he wasn't in the public eye, he'd have been told off by the polis, and be contributing stacks of 40% tax instead of costing us masses of wonga to feel self righteous.

Mind you, it's easy for me to take a juxta-position. All the Tories I loathed to skin crawling proportions are dead or mad.

Skipjack


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: The Walrus
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 05:56 PM

The really appalling thing about Archer's time in the jug is that he's probably using it to churn out another atrocious book.
What's the odds that his next effort will feature somewhere) a "hero" figure, falsely banged up?.

Walrus


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Gareth
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 06:47 PM

Walrus - No takers !!!!

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 22 Jul 02 - 07:35 PM

Alas Linda, I too have fibbed about my qualifications from time to time. I've even recruited people who fibbed about their qualifications. I guess I should be banged to rights.

It doesn't bother me that Jeffrey's down - I just don't see the point of kicking him. It doesn't bother me either if he's writing another of his blockbusters. But then I've never read one!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 01:36 AM

It's all very well telling the odd fib, I doubt there is a person on this forum who hasn't told a few porkies when it suited them, BUT: Archer took a newspaper to court for printing what he said were lies about him. He won this particular libel case. Subsequently, it was proved that the paper was printing the truth, Archer lied in court, UNDER OATH, and was committed for a jail term. Had he not been a public figure, yes, it's likely he would have just had to pay back the fine and do a short term (probably suspended) for perjury, contempt and perverting the course of justice. It is BECAUSE he was a high profile figure that he was put away, as an example to others to prove that no-one, even Tory ministers or (allegedly) popular authors are above the law.

We're only happy about him losing his appeal (not that I ever thought he had any) because he's done nothing but lie about his entire life, and tried to prevent people from finding out the truth. Re-inventing yourself is OK, but to then use the court system to deny the past, accuse everyone you've ever known of lying and screw money out of them to use for your own benefit (there are so many irregularities over what actually happened to it - the charity they claim to have given it to have no record of any donations of that size, and there is no way he could have afforded to build a garden shed worth more than most 3 bed houses without it), just is not right. He's lucky he didn't get charged with gaining money under false pretences as well.

Comparing him to Harold Shipman isn't on. Firstly, although Archer never killed anyone, he lied under oath. Shipman to my knowledge, when finally caught, hasn't attempted to pervert the cause of justice. Shipman's crimes are far worse than Archers' (leaving aside Archer's literary contributions), and the jail terms reflect this. If we still had a death penalty, there would be hardly anyone in the country protesting Shipman's demise. I haven't heard one person saying 'oh but he doesn't deserve that' about Shipman. Truth is, Shipman is likely to spend the rest of his life in solitary, like several other high profile murderers (Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper for one), and on suicide watch, for his own safety.

Archer rode to fame on the back of that libel trial, he was already infamous... and when it was discovered to be a tissue of lies, he was punished for it. His jail term was permissable under the law and if truth be told, he's actually got it quite cushy. He isn't doing solitary or hard labour, he hasn't been wrongly accused and he has enough money to be able to afford luxuries. Bet you anything he doesn't have to save up his snout for a bar of carbolic.

It's time people in the public eye woke up to the fact that they are not untouchable. Ceasars' wife may be above suspicion, but that doesn't mean she isn't as guilty as sin.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:51 AM

Fair points, and power to you, Eliza, but I'm still left feeling that it was only a scummy gutter rag that he tried to dick over. Wasn't it more fun to hear Hislop squealing about injustice when he lost the Private Eye action, rather than having the self-satisfied little twat 9allegidly) being found for?

I second Fionn, in that he's doing stir, quite rightly, he lost his appeal, quite rightly, but why the street parties?

Skipjack


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 07:35 AM

This should be in the oxymoron thread, and the fails bit qualifies it for a tautology thread
IMOHO, ***BG***
cause for celebration
one in the eye for Archer?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 05:33 PM

'still left feeling that it was only a scummy gutter rag that he tried to dick over' - yes it was; the fact that Archer tried to screw it (as well as the prostitute) just shows what a scummy guttersnipe he really is.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 06:43 PM

Please note that Jeffrey Archer the author, crook and politician (in descending order) is not the same person as Geoffrey Archer, who to the best of my knowledge is just an author.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 07:36 PM

Hard to follow some of your ramble Liz.

Archer's garden shed was a drop in the bucket compared with his Westminster pad or his country home (the vicarage, Grantchester, famously celebrated by Rupert Brooke). I would have thought there wasn't much doubt that as well as being bankrupt once or twice, he has also been ridiculously rich once or twice.

Are you suggesting his books did not make him millions? If he needed to screw the News of the Screws to buy his shed, how come you think he's well off now? And I think you've got fame and imfamy the wrong way round. Archer had written nearly all, if not all, his bestsellers before the court case.

I tried to follow your comparison with Shipman but couldn't see your point. Sure as hell I'm glad Shipman was brought to justice, but the only reason people are not out there trying to save him from the gallows is that there are no gallows. If there were, I'd be out there on the street because I think killing people is wrong.

For the record I was not sympathetically disposed to Jonathan Aitken, whose transgressions were vastly more serious than Archer's. But even there, I thought the Guardian's constant crowing, for week after week, as though this was the only story in the world, was thoroughly nauseating.

My guess is that Archer, like Aitken (and Oscar Wilde), will come out of prison a better man. God knows why or how, because our prisons are a national disgrace.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Jul 02 - 08:01 PM

'but the only reason people are not out there trying to save him from the gallows is that there are no gallows. If there were, I'd be out there on the street because I think killing people is wrong.'

So you'd be happy to kill people to show that killing people is wrong..... But that's digressing.

It isn't that he screwed the newspaper to build a garden shed, it's that he claimed that all the damages awarded him had been given to charity, which it obviously hadn't. The appearance of the luxury garden shed within 6 months (and sans planning permission I suspect) of the money being awarded is a bit suspicious.....

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 07:30 AM

The way I see it Liz, is simply that you dislike him rather more than Fionn, who is also unlikely to invite him to her housewarming party. I think he's a nasty piece of work, who shagged a prostitute, got caught, lied through his teeth about it afterwards and then (after making money by lying through his expensively tended molars) eventually got exposed and jugged for it. That makes him a nasty piece of work against whom I bear no personal malice. Jonathon Aitken was someone I could get angry about. I think the politically correct term for what he did is "adviser on defence contracts". Some of us prefer the more prosaic term "gun runner". We are never likely to know all the details of what Aitken did, as such deals remain substantially secret even after wrongdoing has been exposed in court. However, the damage done to our country by arms dealing was almost certainly vastly greater than any caused by Archer. It can be gratifying to witness the fall of a smug and priveleged man, but it does not appeal to the side of my character which I like. I think Fionn's point is that the malice felt towards Archer is out of proportion to the damage he caused. I can go along with that.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 08:00 AM

Is it the J A initials, or just my lack of braincells, that makes it impossible to recollect whether it was Aitken or Archer who did what and when and to whom? I somehow seem to have got the impression that Aitken is a seriously slimy toad and Archer's just a bit of a lad, but I'd be hard put to describe the their activities in any detail.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 08:15 AM

he made no comment to the court of appeal - is it that Archer won't be drawn.
ho ho ho


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Ritchie
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 08:19 AM

Will he get booed when he comes out of prison ? Will there be a crowd with banners and slogans ? And will Davina be there to greet & comfort him ? What great television viewing that would make. Just for the record I also immensley dislike Robt. Kilroy Silk, David Mellor, oh and I think Juncket Jack Cunningham's a bit of a twat as well. But hey I have n't even met the guys. Treat as you find ! Just in case Fionn (careful she supports Leeds, which is a kick in the arse from Richmond)is who I think she is not,I like William Hague.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 08:20 AM

Fionn is a "he" by the way alanabit! (As in Fionn McComhaill or Fin McCool.)

Liz, it's beginning to ring a bit hollow. IT sounds like your prejudice comes down to speculation and suspicion. No point prolonging it, I just want to set you straight on the bit you quoted.

Let me put it another way. There is no death penalty, hence you see no-one protesting against it. If there was, you would see me, for one, protesting (against the death penalty). I think killing people is wrong Period. Understand?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Ritchie
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 08:38 AM

Ok Fionn, I apologise for the case of mistaken identity and I was only kidding about liking William Hague. Personally I think they should let Harold Shipman use the skills he was taught and well versed in. They should let him practise amongst the prisoners. I bet not many would report as sick and it might deter some people from a life of crime if they knew he was going to look after them.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 09:35 AM

LOL Ritchie! But I really do like Hague. (So as a decent socialist I was glad to see the Tories dump him for what they've got now.) Oh, and I loathe Kilroy-Silk.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: C-flat
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 10:28 AM

Jeffery Archer must have got under the skin of some fairly powerful people over the years. There is clearly a broad section of people who want to see him crying for mercy.
There's no doubt he has lied to the courts, the media and, presumably, his wife on many issues but that doesn't make him worse than many other people who live under the public gaze.
I've never met the man, so my opinion of him is gleaned from the media, but he seems self-serving and arrogant with few, if any, friends. The one friend he did trust to provide him with an alibi for his meeting with a prostitute didn't hesitate to spill the beans when cornered and I can't help feeling that Archer is one of those people who go through life with one finger poised over the self-destruct button.
He is obviously a capable and intelligent man, his books are sure-thing best sellers so a lot of folk must like them and he was, at one time, the golden boy of Conservative politics.
It seems to me that, although the press were intent on destroying him, other people were feeding the press in the certain knowledge that a flawed character such as Archers' was bound to trip himself up.
I don't know why Archer was singled out for special treatment but I would bet that there are people in positions of trust and authority whose crimes are worse but who are simply better at managing their indiscretions.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 01:59 PM

I think it's really sad! Those poor prisoners - nothing they did could have deserved having Archer locked up with them - still they could always borrow his novels for toilet paper.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 02:13 PM

How do all you folks know his books are so bad? Youve not been, sort of,reading them have you?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 02:14 PM

How do all you folks know his books are so bad? Youve not been, sort of,reading them have you?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 02:26 PM

Sorry about the mistaken identity Fionn. No offence (or flattery intended).


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 07:02 PM

As Liz said, what was the appeal of Archer anyway. Now his appeal is dead and burried whats the betting he finds God, or is diagnosed with some 'imcurable disease ' which he, upon release from Prison he miraculasly recovers from.

These seem to be the standad way out of the jail for White Collar Criminals.

BTW, as there seems to be some thread drift on this I remind catters of the words of the late Herbert Morrison, Lord Morrison of Lambeth, a former British Home Secretary, who had to make the decisions on reprieves and pardons. " If I had the choice on capital punishment, I would retain it for one crime, and one crime only, that of Coruption in Public Office".

I agree with him on that.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 07:20 PM

"corruption in public places"? I've been trying to make sense of what the did, I didnt really follow the case.Didnt he just indulge in a bit of extra-curricular rumpy-pumpy and lied to get out of difficulty? Not very moral, perhaps, but hardly what Herbert Morrison was talking about.He was referring to politicians/civil servants taking bribes to influence policy. Or did Jeffrey Archer do this as well? As I said before, I get confused between him and Jonathan Aitken.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 24 Jul 02 - 08:48 PM

I never licked him anyway.john


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 04:28 AM

Are you sure, John, I've noticed you are a little vague sometimes after closing time.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 08:59 AM

Greg, I'm pretty sure jOhn's right on this one. I know him a lot better than Jeffrey (we share instruments) and he's never licked me either.

Skipjack


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 07:21 PM

Archer back in closed prison tonight.
Lady Archer can't understand what he has done.
attended a party while on home leave.
Now will they believe us when we exhibit incredulity at his apparent freedom while serving a prison sentence? It IS a punishment after all. I would settle for a educative course on humility but would it work?


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 07:48 AM

Not a chance, he's too stupid to learn to be humble!
BJ


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Fiolar
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 09:07 AM

My heart bleeds for the poor chap. Imagine, no more driving to "work" in Lincoln in his car five days a week. No more lunches in restauarants and the loss of the key to his room at the open prison must be heart-breaking. Still, cheer up Jeffrey. You are staying in a place (i.e. Lincoln Jail) which once housed DeValera and who went on to become President of Ireland. Trouble is I don't see any Michael Collins on the horizon waiting to help you to escape.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Sonnet
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 03:25 PM

All the way along, he's appeared to think himself above the law. I haven't stopped grinning yet from watching last night's news.

JMcS


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 03:43 AM

Still sniggering here..... OK so other prisoners abuse the system as well.... but are they stupid enough to be observed doing it?

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: GUEST,Les Jones
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 03:54 AM

He has the same attitude as some of the toffs in the Countryside Alliance. Sort of - how dare you lowlifes challenge anything we do or say. Listening to Mr or Mrs Archer or the CA is interesting for a while because no logical thread of ideas or arguments can be discerned.

Lest we forget what I wretched bunch of liars and cheats they all were, Edwina Currie pops up today owning up to a 4 year affair with John Major in order to sell her Diaries! Perhaps she was the reason he had his underpants on over his trousers.

References to Archer in the press, Radio & TV are pretty visious. Is it because they fell for his lies more than most?

Celebrate!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: The Walrus
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 04:55 AM

The really silly thing about this incedent is that it was so unnecessary, there was a chap from the open prison on theradio who pointed out that if JA had asked permission to attend the party, it would probably have been given and that's the end of it, but of course, Archer assumed that he was above the rules. Oh well, at least Mary knows what to gifts to buy for him , tobacco for trade and a lot of soap-on-a-rope.

Walrus


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 12:06 PM

it,said,on,the,news,that,he,can,get,out,of
jail,in,julie.


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 12:54 PM

Yes supposedly only serving half his sentence because of good behaviour - like going to parties when he was supposed to be on a home visit! Whole thing stinks!


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Subject: RE: BS: UK: Jeffery Archer appeal fails
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jun 03 - 02:10 PM

Well, all he really did was cheat, lie and steal. Compared with what his colleagues in his line of work did and do to really hurt people, he was relatively innocuous.


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