Help: Doctoral Day Dreams

Subject: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 07:49 AM

You are given leave from your work and money and facilities to do folklore research suitable for a PhD. What would YOUR thesis be about? (why? how?)

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 09:49 AM

Ooh, fun thread. Having done the PhD mill, I think mine would be about the relationship between the life of the folksinger and the choice of lyrics used in songs like Pretty Polly that have more than 5 known versions. Why, because it sounds like fun and might take forever (I would never have left grad school of my own accord!) - How, well, I'll have to think about that. Quantifying the unquantifiable has always been my strong suit...

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 09:57 AM

Well, that's a lovely day dream.I think I would go for 19th century cultural contacts between Irish Sea fishing communities(particularly Down,Antrim,Isle of Man, Galloway and Cumberland) and SW Ireland(particuarly Dingle peninsula).That would make a very pleasant three years work.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: GUEST,supervisor
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 10:20 AM

Mzzry, your subject is esoteric; could you plese describe the parameters of the study in greater detail.

Greg, Can you establlish that there were contacts? How (briefly!)would you go about doing this study?

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 10:50 AM

Well,supervisor, as I expect you are aware I failed to complete a PhD thesis in 1970 on the elctronic structures of certain molecules, using an iterative NPSO approach with the NCC modification; this was due to spending every night playing folk music in pubs, and failing to get up the following morning. But I can promise you that I have learnt a ittle more about application and meeting deadlines now.
On the specific question of evidence for cultural contacts, I need do no more than refer you to extensive documentation of fishing boat movements and crew details from contemporary local press in Kerry, Isle of Man etc, which I hope to correlate with tune and song survivals, specifically in late 19th MSS. I shall also be looking closely at boat-building methods, looking at Manx and Cumbrian workers settling in Munster ports. But of course, as my supervisor you are already familiar with all this in outline, if not in detail.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: MMario
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 10:57 AM

I think I would do something on the "Influence of cross cultural contamination on the singing traditions of the Indigenous tribes of coastal New England due to seasonal European fishing settlements during the late 16th Century"

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 11:05 AM

this IS going to be fun. Greg, what can you tell me about the survival of A' Bhean Eudach (A' Bhean Udaí Thall) in the north coast of Ireland and the Uists and Skye, but not apparently in southern isles of Scotland and Kintyre and Argyle? (If you aren't familiar with this song, search the Mudcat archives for info. If you really think you have relevant insight into the movement of this song from Scotland to Ireland, you could write about that at one of the appropriate threads). I wouldn't mind doing a thesis on that song. I did do a project, sort of an undergraduate term-paper / presentation (with recordings) but I don't think I'd find enough in the topic for 3 years work. (Yes Mzzry, that's all we get in Ireland)
Greg, maybe you could study the molecules generated at music sessions. I could refer you to my thesis on the effect of rosin inhalation at sessions, and O'Drisceoil's paper on the creative uses for the spittle generated by wooden flute players.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 11:42 AM

When I started, there was no limit, then in my 6th year they invented a 7 year ceiling with no grandfather clause. Boy o boy, did I finish quick.

Am thinking of parameters.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 11:57 AM

Philippa: you're not going to distract me. I've failed to complete one PhD already by going looking for One Big Theory. I'm going to be verynarrow and very academic on this.Irish Sea/SW Ireland herring/mackerel fleets is what I'm sticking to,19th century. Be very happy to share any work in progress with you, to explore cross-connections, but if you want Outer Hebrides/Donegal and the notorious Argyll Gap...you'll have to do it yourself!
Or how about you tackling Donegal seasonal agricultural workers in Cheshire/Lancashire? That might tie in with my stuff.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 12:05 PM

PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 12:27 PM

I notice everyone so far is opting for historical topics. Isn't folklore still happening?

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: MMario
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 12:37 PM

depends on your definition of folklore. And most poeple seem to think it takes a couple of generations to become "folk" - which makes it very difficult to do something current.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 12:49 PM

I'd find out about the last of a generation of street performers. Klaus der Geiger still does it occasionally, but he is now sixty-one and the electric energy of his performances is not likely to remain unabated for long. Phil Free, to whom every working street comedian I have ever seen owes something, is also in his sixties. I use the word "genius" sparingly, but I'm willing to defend it robustly in this case. Also it's worth mentioning Don Partridge, whom most people only think of as having had a couple of oddball hits in the sixties. He pioneered a true folk lifestyle at a time when many others either only sought fame or talked about the things he was actually doing. These guys are getting older now. Unless someone interviews them soon and finds out about this disappearing way of life, an important link in folk music history will be lost forever.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 07:50 PM

Well, believe it or not, I completed mine back in 1974 on the topic of The Student Rental Housing Market of a Large University Town, with a full appendix of related housing protest songs. This time around I think I'd put the statisitical analysis in the appendix!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, Ph.D.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Finn McCool
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 09:07 PM

1) Bio or historical perspective on the recently deceased Alan Lomax would be rather absorbing. He recorded most of the USA greats before they were "discovered".

2) *The* definitive study of the music of Woody Guthrie.

Jeez, I went through one doctoral process; now you've got me hankering for another!

This has got to stop. I need time to play my Ramblin' Jack Elliott and Norman Blake. Also Wolfe Tones. No more academics!

--Finn

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jul 02 - 09:22 PM

see the current threads about the Glasgow Eskimos, that looks like a suitable topic. Of course, anything to do with protest songs or relation between songs and politics, is of interest -- note Dr Charlie Noble's project. Or the posthumous debate about good and bad aspects of Alan Lomax (a different perspective from Finn's). Finn this is meant to be a daydream, not a nightmare,of academics. Imagine you are doing participant research and can play all the music you like, if you frame your project correctly!

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: alanabit
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 04:24 AM

It's a daydream alright. Actually, I did write a passable dissertation on Woody Guthrie for my humble bachelor's back in 1984. Unfortunately I did not have the time or resources to do the primary source research which my preferred theme would have required. The main reason that it's a pipe dream for me, is that in the UK you have to be a bit above average to get your Master's and unless you are brilliant, they will laugh in your face if you tell them you want to do a Doctor's. In some countries, (like Germany - where I live) it seems that if you are literate and live long enough, you have a fair chance of ending up with a PhD. Still, it's an agreeable pipe dream - and I sincerely hope that one day, someone with the interest, ability, academic rigour and resources will come along and write that thesis. If it's a Mudcatter, put down my name for a copy!

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Nerd
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 05:42 AM

Folklore is indeed still happening. I did my PhD dissertation on the use of proverbs in American popular culture: I mentioned songs, TV, Cartoons, movies, ads, stand-up comedy, and numerous other contexts where the proverb tradition is in daily use.

Now you see why I'm such a nerd!

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: fogie
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 06:59 AM

Alcohol and it's influence on performance, the practical.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 11:35 AM

FWIW, I think it would be very interesting to find one song which can be traced back through a specific family; that family being the one which introduced such song to the world at large. In order to come up to the present, I suppose it would have to be a fairly recent intro to the general folk public. (Sandy & Caroline Paton finding Wild Mountain Thyme and bringing it over comes to mind.) Using other sources one could document the change in lyrics according to different generations and also, through present family members, give some idea of how, where, and when the song was passed down.

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Susan of DT
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 07:00 PM

Look up the song "Their Way" in the DT
Mrrzy - we had a rule about how long the qualifying exam was good for (5 or 7 years), so we told the graduate school that I had taken a second set of quals... and I finally finished up 6 years after I left campus.
So I am not planning to do another doctorate, but I have this large spreadsheet with murders in the Child ballads.... (hint: more than half of the Child ballads have a murder /death in them).

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 08:41 PM

Well, danged, this one is easy 'nuff. I'd do a socio-psycho- anthropological of the Catbox. Yep, complete with cast/case anylisis of some of the "core characters". AND you know you are!!! Hey, quit lookin' at the other folks 'cause I'm talkin to you...

Yeah, then you'd have to call me Dr. Boney Hillbilly and I know just who would be the first to PM me with some story about an ache or pain that other docs counldn't figure out. No names, but we all know who you are... Hmmmmmmmm? Okay, it's just IBS. Take some aloe vera and leave me to my more important work...

Dr. Bobert

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 09:00 PM

I can't think of a bigger waste of time than doing anything for a post grad advanced degree, with the possible exception of the time spent in getting an undergrad degree.

You could have spent the time inventing something useful.....like this.
Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Ed.
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 09:03 PM

Kat,

Can you explain a bit more about what you mean concerning:

"Sandy & Caroline Paton finding Wild Mountain Thyme and bringing it over"

Thanks a lot

Ed

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Jul 02 - 09:14 PM

There are several threads where this is discussed Ed, but the basic idea you can get from this post by Sandy:

Subject: RE: Help: real origin of Wild Mountain Thyme
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 05-Apr-00 - 02:01 PM

I recorded it for Elektra Records in 1959 (and taught it to Judy Collins in that year when she and I worked together at the Exodus in Denver). I had learned it from a field recording made of the McPeakes which I found in the BBC Recorded Programmes Library which was then housed at the Cecil Sharp House in London. Elektra was never sued by the McPeakes, which makes me wonder about the date of their copyright filing. Perhaps it was simply the obscurity of my Elektra album that served to protect Elektra. It did not, to put it mildly, overwhelm the early folk revival world. (wry smile emoticon inserted here)

In earlier threads on this subject, I think I have pointed to several other traditional versions of the song, including those collected from Carrie Grover in Maine. There is plenty of evidence to show that Francis McPeake's song is an adaptation of an older Scottish song derived from a Tannahill poem. I'll let the chips off of the old copyright block fall where they may.

Sandy

**********************************************************************

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: Les Jones
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 02:53 AM

People have been bringing songs, tunes and stories to the British Isles since the end of the last Ice Age. Different collections of people brought different stuff but good tunes travel very well.

What about researching communities that arrived since 1945? The Empire Widrush brough us much to celebrate, it's a pity we don't celebrate it a bit more. I suspect much good stuff is alive and well in East European and Asian communities.

Anybody searching?

Subject: RE: Help: Doctoral Day Dreams
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Jul 02 - 04:26 AM

Les, I do not have the technology to search old threads(I believe they arent indexed fpr recent timesanyway), but I have posted recently on Caribbean folk-songs among elderly women in Stoke-on-Trent, and work with Kurds and Afghans on going at the moment. If you are interested in this area, do PM me and we could compare notes.