pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers

Subject: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: steve t
Date: 13 May 98 - 04:24 AM

Like Joe said, I like to minimize dialect when singing songs, but I love this line so much:

An' a' the bricht chaulmers are eerie

That I can't leave it out of Banks of Sicily. I think this means all the bright combers are eerie. Am I close?

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Songbird
Date: 13 May 98 - 06:28 AM

I believe this to mean :- "and all the bright charmers are cheery "

Why not e mail Dick Gaughan at his site see links page

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Ferrara
Date: 13 May 98 - 09:00 AM

Actually, Steve, I think you may have it right. Never thought of "chaumers" as combers or waves.

Here's another guess: translate "chaumers" (that's the spelling I got from Ed Miller, and it's the way Dick Gaughan spells it) as "charmers." Translate "eerie" as "uneasy, disturbed, unhappy." The bright charmers would be the Sicilian ladies who have entertained the Scots for love and money during their stay. This may be what Ed told me it meant, but don't count on that, my memory has a few bad sectors.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Pete M
Date: 13 May 98 - 04:59 PM

I really ought to defer to Murray, but for my two pennorth, I go along with Ferrera. Eerie is defined in the OED as "superstitiously timid, strange, wierd". Not a bad description of the way a teenage girl might feel as the love of her life leaves on a mission that she must know he is unlikely to return from, whatever the outscome. At least that's the way I've always understood it. By the way Steve, how do you translate the rest? there are so many words that have no direct standard english equivalent, and even if they do, how do you maintain the scansion?

Pete M

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Cuilionn
Date: 13 May 98 - 10:55 PM

I'm thinkin' the waird "chaumers" (oor "chaulmers") is Braid Scots for the Sassunach/English waird "chambers." I've seen ither similer occurances o' sic a usage. Sae th' singer micht be discussin' the deserted buildings alang th' watter, an' the fact that, e'en wi' licht aroond 'em, there's a dreadfu' feelin cam o'er the plaice. There...see if ye can mak oot that explanation...sorry tae complicate this, but after twa year o' typin naethin' but terrible Braid Scots in a weekly "Celtic Culture Chat" on AOL, my mind is fair fettled.

Guid luck,

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: steve t
Date: 14 May 98 - 01:42 AM

Wow. What a beautiful bunch of sounds.

Me? I should know about this song? I got bricht chaulmers wrong folks.
But anyway, here is a partial translation found on USENET.

I found this on dejanews

From: [e-mail] (Abby Sale)
Date: 1995/09/04

Part of difficulty to find is the various titles Seumas Mor MacEanruig
(great Hamish Henderson)'s song is known as. For the record, the
originally published title (about 1951) is "The Highland Division's
Last Farewell to Sicily." He has, however, authorized several others,
including "The 51st Highand...etc.) Also known as "Farewell to
Sicily" and just "Banks of Sicily."

The original, original text (also several minor "authorized" changes)

1.
The pipie is dozie, the pipie is fey; (sleepy...fated?doomed?)
He wullnae come roon for his vino the day.
The sky ower Messina is antrin an' grey, (later: "is unco and"
An' a' the bricht chaulmers are eerie. - strange)

Then fare weel ye banks o' Sicily
Fare ye weel, ye valley an' shaw. (shore)
There's nae Jock will mourn the kyles o' ye
Puir bliddy bastards are wearie. [later: "bliddy
swaddies" - enlistees]

Fareweel ye banks o' Sicily
Fare ye weel ye valley an' shaw
There's nae name can smoor the wiles o' ye
Puir bliddy swaddies are weary

Then doon the stair and line the waterside
Wait your turn the ferry's awa'
The doon the stair and line the waterside
A' the bricht chaulmers are eerie (bright rooms)

2:
The drummie is polisht, the drummie is braw (drummer)
He cannae be seen for his webbin' ava. (his leatherwork
covers him)
He's beezed himsel' up for a photy an' a'
Tae leave with his Lola, his dearie.

Then fare weel ye dives o' Sicily
(Fare ye weel ye shielin' an' ha'
And fare weel ye byres and bothies (later same as in next v.)
Whaur kind signorinas were cheerie

And fare weel ye dives o' Sicily
(Fare ye weel ye shielin' an' ha') various illegal to

We'll a mind shebeens an' bothies semi-legal boozeries
Whaur Jock made a date wi' his dearie and also dwellings

Then tune the pipes and drub the tenor drum
(Leave your kit this side o' the wa')
Then tune the pipes and drub the tenor drum -
A' the bricht chaulmers are eerie

Copyright Hamish Henderson
tune, Fareweel Tae the Creeks, by Pipe Major James Robertson of Banff

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: steve t
Date: 14 May 98 - 01:47 AM

Going through that again, i see that it's not a translation at all -- it's just some alternate "accepted" lyrics for the more difficult to understand dialect.

Sad, eh, that it's not the weather conditions on the water that are eerie. I do so love images of water. Oh well. Still, a wonderful, wonderful song.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Pete M
Date: 14 May 98 - 05:05 AM

Cuilionn, I think youre drawing a long bow there. With the weather "unco' and grey" its not likely that there are any bright rooms / chambers about. Just a couple of comments on the "translations" swaddies/squaddies aka PBI is a general term for other ranks (equivalent to the US term "grunt"). Its unlikely that the drummies webbing would have been leather, blancoed canvas much more likely. Another bit of info I remember reading, but can't lay my hand on the reference at the moment, that the 51st were piped ashore at Salerno, the pipe major playing on an LST and broadcast over the ships tannoy. Highly doubtful if he was wearing white webbing at the time though!

Pete M

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Bob Schwarer
Date: 14 May 98 - 08:25 AM

A rather nice version of this song is on "Songs of the Tall Ships" by The Starboard List. Some the the words are changed slightly, but it follows the above text nicely.

I think it is also available on a CD of two Starboard List LPs.

Bob S.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Cuilionn
Date: 14 May 98 - 01:44 PM

Regardin' th' comment frae Pete M., I'm feelin' compelled tae mak a wee response. Here's the queried snippit o' sang:

"Then doon the stair and line the waterside Wait your turn the ferry's awa' The doon the stair and line the waterside A' the bricht chaulmers are eerie"

Hae ye ne'er sat waitin' at the quayside oor dock for the boat whae's gang awa'? I grew up on a wee isle mysel', an' there's naethin' like a dark, damp nicht tae mak ye ponder th' dreyin' o' yer ain wierd (The endurin' o' your own fate, for the Sassunachs). Ye sit waitin' wi' th' watter drizzlin' doon aroond ye, an' ye luik back to'ards th' wee hooses aboon the quay, an' the glintin' glimmerin' licht frae sic "bricht chaulmers" tells ye muckle mair than the fact o' folk bein' ben the hoose. Ye must gae, soon eno' intae th' mirk, leavin' land an' licht behind ye. Sae the wee glimmerin' lichts are a "bricht sadness" tae ye, a promise o' a' the warm fires an' guid folk an' comfort ye're leavin' behind. Och, I'm no' daein' justice tae th' meanin' o' it, but I'm tellin ye: 'tis TRUE.

Alricht...sorry tae be sic a rantin' lassie. I'll try tae haud my wheesht th' noo.

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Bert
Date: 14 May 98 - 02:27 PM

Cuillionn,

at last it makes sense.
Bert.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Frank in the swamps
Date: 14 May 98 - 03:52 PM

Cuilionn, Dinnae haud yer wheesht lass! Yer screivins' braw. Av been fremmit maist o ma life and dinnae hae the mou fer the leid, but it's aye tunefu tae ma lugs. Please, please, please, blether awa!

Frank (up tae his oxters in crocs) i.t.s.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Pete M
Date: 14 May 98 - 04:15 PM

Cuilionn, its sounds guy fine tae me. I thocht frae ye'er fust wee tale that ye didnae ken, ye were quo'ing frae some ither ..."I'm *thinkin'* the waird "chaumers" (oor "chaulmers") is Braid Scots for the Sassunach/English waird "chambers." I've *seen ither similer occurances o' sic a usage*...." (My emphasis) sae blather awa lassie but be precise. .

One other note (I haven't got Frank ITS's patience to continue translating) "shaw" isn't a phonetic spelling of "shore" as mentioned above, its a wood or thicket: from the Old English scaga (OE was a precursor of both Lowland Scots, and via Middle English, modern usage)

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Pete M
Date: 14 May 98 - 04:16 PM

Sorry, forgot to sign the above I was being pestered by son for access to the PC and tried to rush.

Pete M

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Barry Finn
Date: 14 May 98 - 05:24 PM

Cuilionn, don't know at all about the translation, not even sure about what you're saying, but I sat many a night pier side, after closing the bar, and swiming out into the Lahina Roadstead (only 2 rowboats for 3 people, last one heading home swam), to my bunk, all the while keeping a weather eye out for the shark & hoping all the while for the porpoise. I'd get about half way to the boat (1/8 mile), & things would start to get very erie, the crash of the breakers behind me & dead silent & calm in front, your image of waiting for a boat at night is erie tome too. Barry

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Murray [a relative of the Duke of Athol]
Date: 16 May 98 - 02:32 AM

Cuilionn has it right, and so has Pete (shaw = thicket, grove). Chaumers = chambers, rooms, and the lad is either saying that the bright rooms are making him sad (to be leaving) or he's fed up with the brightness. Dinna ye think?? Weel, gin ye jalouse I'm no that richt i the heid or whit, jist tell me to gang wheech doon the cludgie, an I'll say nae mair.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: steve t
Date: 16 May 98 - 04:47 PM

Cuilionn, where else can we find your writing? It's beautiful (at least in small bursts).

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Cuilionn
Date: 18 May 98 - 09:26 PM

Weel, I'm richt flatterit, tae be sure... Th' trowth o' 't is that I startit wrichtin' in Braid Scots twa year agae amang th' guid folk o' th' AOL Celtic Chat. I hadnae but a wee buik o' Burns wi' a glossarie tae wairk wi', but I've since discoverit that Braid Scots is nae jist a dialect, but a language i' its ain richt an' wairth savin'. I'm a student o' Scots Gaelic as weel, but I dearly lo'e baith o' th' Mither Tongues! Luik aroond th' Scottish websites...there's ain "Scots Guidbuik" wi' a hantle o' guid wrichtin'. Th' Celtic chat has dwindlit tae a wee remnant o' th' faithfu', but if ony o' ye wuid care tae see mair Scots or try yer ain hand at it, we'd welcome ye! It's a merry gatherin' tae be sure, an' we welcome experts an' amatuers o' a' kinds. Jyne us Thursday nichts aroond 9:00-11:00 EST in a private ruim ca'd "craic". An' If I'm nae feshin' ye wi' my bit a blather, then I'll venture a bit mair o' 't noo an' then.

Muckle thanks, --Cuilionn

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Maryrrf
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 10:57 PM

I'm refreshing this thread in the hopes that more light can be shed on "bricht chaumers are eerie" and other hard to understand lines in this song - such as "he canna be seen for his webbin' ave" etc. I love the song and want to sing it - have kind of got it phonetically but I don't want to sing the words without knowing the meaning.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:02 PM

See also the more recent discussion, Word meanings in Banks Of Sicily

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Maryrrf
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:10 AM

Thank you, Malcolm, the thread you pointed out was very helpful. I must have missed it in the search I did. You're the best!

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Fifer
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 10:50 AM

One small comment . the Pipe Major, and the Drum Major in a Scootish pipe band are frequently known as the Pipie, and the Drummie.
This is a richt braw song, and the mair ye ken aboot its meaning, the better it gets

Subject: Silicy
From: GUEST,Anton
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 02:39 PM

I don't understand a lot of this song, could anyone do a little translation into English?

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Megan L
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 03:53 PM

I spent a wheen oh time in a peedie fishin village, I weel mind on the feelin when aye boatie wis ower late in makin hame. there was a strange wheesht fell ower a thing like the hale toon wis haudin its breath, even when fowk met there wis a gey unnattural hush aboot the place.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: CET
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 05:12 PM

The drummie is "beezed up for a photy" (buffed up for a photograph) and is therefore wearing his best blancoed webbing (yes, not leather); the piper playing on the LST at Salerno was probably battledress and helmet like the assault troops.

Charmion (didn't bother to reset Edmund's cookie)

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Stewie
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 05:22 PM

Below is a link to a useful online reference tool. However, putting in 'chaumer' or 'chaulmer' yields no result.

Dictionary of The Scots Language.


--Stewie.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Stewie
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 05:31 PM

My apologies. I did not enter the word and take 'FULL ENTRY' option. When you do this with 'chaumer', you get 45 hits, reinforcing the 'chamber', 'room' etc meaning suggested by some above in this thread.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST,ian woodward
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 06:09 AM

Chambers Scots Dictionary (W & R Chambers, Edinburgh - I have the 1977 edition) gives "Chaumer" as "chamber" and cross-refers to "Chalmer" and "Chamber". For the former (Chalmer), it gives : "a room, chamber; an upper room; a bedroom; ... " and goes on to mention a police-court or a magistrate's room, neither of which is relevant here. For the latter (Chamber), it gives : "any upper room; a bedroom; .." and again mentions the police court.

There are related words. "Chalmer-chield" is "a valet or groom of the chambers". A "Chalmerie" is "a small chamber". A "Chalmer o' deis" is "a parlour; the best bedroom".

Also, "Chamer" is defined as "a chamber"

Being one of Chambers' dictionaries, you would think they'd get this is one word they would get right.

The poem appeared in "Modern Folk Ballads" (Studio Vista "Pocket Poets" series, London, 1966) and a number of Scots words are explained. It reads, "chaulmers = rooms". What makes this even more compelling is that the ballads were selected by Charles Causley, who wrote a short introduction to the book. In this introduction, he devotes a paragraph to this particular ballad. Causley writes, "Many versions of 'Farewell to Sicily' still circulate, and in a letter to me the author refers to the one he 'usuually' now sings" and goes on to explain the importance of the word "usually" in the context of ballads evolving over time. At the end of the paragraph, Causley adds in parenthesis : "(I have included, at the author's request, an early version of the 'Sicily' ballad, though again with some small alterations by him.)". I assume that, as Hamish Henderson had such a close involvement in the inclusion of this ballad in the book, he would have been content with the "chaulmers = rooms" note.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST,GUEST, Kurt Pedersen
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:59 PM

It's been very interesting to read this thread. I've loved the song since I first heard it with the McCalmans nearing on 30 years ago. Always intrigued by a lot of the words I've never doubted the mood and meaning of the song.
If indeed "Chaulmers" means rooms, could it be referring to ballrooms or maybe brothels, where business certainly would be slow after the leaving of the soldiers?

Just a thought.

Kurt

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST,Mark LeBel
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 03:48 PM

subject: translation of "and a' the bricht chaulmers [chaumers]"

I think the author poignantly contrasts the brighly painted, yet, given the broad context, diminutive and insignificant "dwellings" or "cottages"(not "chambers")of Sicily -- broad Scot for 'cottage' or 'dwelling'; derived from the French "chaumiere" for the same? -- which appear "eerily bright" against the pervading literal and metaphorical dark skies in these perilous and wearying times for the advancing Scottish troops who, having banged the Germans into retreating across the straight of Messina, are now readying to cross in pursuit of that formidable ennemy.

Mark LeBel
California

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 10:15 PM

From "The Cruel Wars" compiled by Karl Dallas:-

......He (Hamish Henderson) wrote this wry farewell to the charms and charmers of Sicily to the tune of "Farewell To The Creeks"....

Hope this helps.

Colyn.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 04:13 AM

Bright chambers i.e. well lit rooms/bars, was always my interpretation.
G.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST,oggie
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 05:31 AM

I heard Henderson give an explanation of the writing of this song many years ago. As he told it, it was written on the quayside as the trops were emberking for the invasion of Italy and as he was composing the words the Pipes started playing "Farewell to the Creeks" and he picked that up as the rhythm of the poem.

It is also worth noting that the army involved was the core of that army that had fought and died from Crete into North Africa and then back and forth during the desert war. They were battle hardened and knew full well what awaited them on landing and for many this time in Sicilly would be their last.

All the best

Steve

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Scotus
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:10 AM

I always understood 'chaumer' as having the same meaning as a 'bothy' - in other words a stone farm building built to accommodate the unmarried male farmworkers. I also understand that this word was more common than bothy in the NE of Scotland, and that it derives from the French 'chambre' (bedroom). Scots has many words originating in French.

Jack

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Megan L
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:31 AM

Oor war memorial is a peedie bit unusual as its a wifie sittin wie her hied in her haun starin intae space as though tryin tae see her man ane last time in the bricht glow o the fire. theres mony a lass his lichted a room in the hoose tae try an flecht awa the fear while she waits fur news o her man. But the brichtest chaumer is a gey sorrofu place when yer left yer lane.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST,Rumncoke
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:44 PM

The memorial is perhaps also echoing how the ones with the further seeing eye can know of the fate of those far away - seeing it in the embers of a dying fire, or sometimes in the surface of standing water as the wind moves it.

Maybe the 'fey pipie' is recollecting past battles and seeing in his mind's eye men long gone...

My mother's mother knew her first husband was shot and killed at the Somme in the Great War, as she heard the shot as she lay in bed - and she even knew where he was hit which put the wind up the friends who'd been with him, who came to pay their respects.

She was always a bit fey - at her old house the door to the living room used to open of its own accord at about twenty five past four in the afternoon. It was 'Old Horben' - a deceased lodger who, when alive, would arrive to wind up the clock on the mantlepiece and sit down - with his flat cap and work clothes on to eat his cooked tea.

And, yes, when he died the clock ran down and never went again.

I was thinking - isn't Sicily one of those places where the housen are painted white? Under grey skies it is often surprising how a white building will seem to almost glow against the hillside. I have seen that in Northern England when walking in the Pennines. One white painted building is visible from far further off than brick or even light coloured stone houses.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST,Gordon Cheyne
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 01:11 PM

When I was a wee loon in Kennethmont, the "chaulmer" was where the farm servants slept, an a room above the stable. I assume it was derived from "chamber"

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 03:53 PM

The word "eerie", as used by Burns,Scott,Hogg, Gault, Henderson and yours truly has a different meaning in Scots from that given in the O.E.D.

Kinraddie o Kinraddie and the ferm toon o Blawwearie
A tale weel telt o days that are gane
And it maks me dowie and eerie

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST,highlandman at work
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 04:24 PM

I love this song, but when I think of singing it (other than to myself) it turns in my mind's ear into a Smothers Brothers routine -- you know, where you stop every other line to argue over the meaning of the unfamiliar words. And since that would be an utterly heinous thing to do to this wonderful lyric, the song remains (by me at least) unsung. Frustrating, though.
-Glenn

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 05:27 PM

More discussion here.
thread.cfm?threadid=44800&messages=81

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 07:01 PM

Chaume is French for thatch, a chaumière is a thatched cottage, and in particular the bedroom under the thatch.

Subject: RE: pls translate: An' a' the bricht chaulmers
From: GUEST,gutcher
Date: 01 Feb 14 - 06:32 AM

"There's nae hame can smoor the wiles o ye"
In the days when we had peat fires at home the last chore at night was to cover the burning peat with peat comb [ie.] peat dust, this was called smooring. In the morning the hand held bellows would be applied and the fire brought to life, thus a peat fire was never allowed to go out.