BS: mid-life crisis?

Subject: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Lavender
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 02:46 PM

I don't want to give my real name yet as I am not sure about this, which is why I've come here for advice.

I have spent the majority of my life building a career which I have now come to loathe.It pays well ( now), has good pension prospects, I have a sound reputation within it and no reason to think I won't continue to be promoted etc.etc...but I hate it.

I am seriously thinking of chucking it all in and buying a pub.I have only worked a bar for a year, many years ago and had nothing to do with the licensing trade since.Am I mad? Does anyone here own/run a pub who could give me some independent advice?

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Me too!
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:02 PM

Well, I don't know if you're male or female (I am the latter) but I'm in the same boat. I've made my decision. I've taken my pitiful retirement account out of the 401K plan and cashed it in. That'll be a (not very generous) cushion. Then I'm going to support myself as a massage therapist (I'm certified) and by gigging. I'm scared to death (no benefits, no insurance, etc.) but the date in my mind that I'm going to resign is October 1. I'm prepared to sell my house, if necessary, and move into a small apartment. My job, which everybody thinks is a good one - and it is well paid, has good benefits, etc. is just sucking away my soul. I leave frazzled and exhausted and depressed, and every day it's a struggle to drag myself in. One of the incidents that tipped the scales was this - take it for what it's worth. I called a small account that occasionally bought a pallet or so of merchandise from us, and asked for Mr. Chand. His wife, a very nice Indian woman, told me tearfully that he had had a heart attack two weeks ago and dropped dead right in the store. "And he was planning to retire in six months." Everything's a gamble and I could keep working at this job, being miserable, and then die before I ever got that "retirement". There's no security in life - I'm middle aged too and I'd rather seize the moment. Another thought, if you're going to do it and you're middle aged, you'd better do it now. There isn't that much time left to waste.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:15 PM

Well, I'm not in the pub business either but I've been self employed now going on 23 years and never regretted it. Sure you'll still come home "frazzled and exhausted' but not "depressed". Now, I do know that the pub is gonna requrie a lot of 6 and 7 day weeks for awile so go into it thinking that. The resturant business is a toughie so ya' got to have the stamina to hold up. And you're gonnja be on your feet a lot so if you have any problems with the wheels, think about another business. But I'll end this the way I started it. Self employment can be like getting out of jail...

Good luck.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,not my real name
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:16 PM

Do you mean to say that you would rather make a living by taking money from people who go to pubs to try to forget, however briefly, the jobs they hate? People whose jobs may not pay quite so well, if they have jobs at all? People whose reputations at work would become less sound if they drank their evenings away and came to work hung over? People whose marriages may fall apart because they leave their spouses at home to go out and have a few drinks every night like the good, steady customers they are? People who drive home drunk and get themselves or somebody else killed?

Then yes, I'd say you're mad.

Please do your fellow human beings a great favor, and don't support their self-destruction by enticing them to go out and get drunk at your pub.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:29 PM

Guest, I think you are exaggerating about the evils of pubs! Not everybody who goes to a pub goes in order to get drunk or to overcome depression or forget about jobs they hate. They may come to meet with their friends and socialize and just relax or have a bite to eat. If people are going to drink, they'll drink whether or not there are pubs around. We learned this in the United States during Prohibition!

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Dagmar
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:31 PM

hm interesting way of thinking guest...a bit absolute, but there is some truth in it...

just write oon the other hand to encourage change !! if it needs to be a pub I do not want to judge.. but change sounds necessary. no good doing something one hates and is able to say this publicly even if it is anonymous.

have done lots of changes and am not happy about the financial difficulties that go with it, but never regreted it eiter..

may be it can be a pub which caters for more than just the people and reasons the guest described... THAT would be really something good..as there are not soo many cafes/pubs to be found with a really good atmosphere, Check out what is missing in your area in terms of catering and places to go to...and then find the gap in the market...that makes it all the more exciting and successful. Good Luck and DO IT . Dagmar

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:43 PM

Go for it! Four years ago, someone came to me with an idea. We have spent all of that time developing the idea. Last year, I retired from my [despised] job and, even though things are not secure here, I love it. I get everything I never got on the old job--freedom, travel and respect. The money will come later.

An important consideration is: Can you lock in your pension and health benefits so that they won't go away? If you need another couple of years to vest your rights, grit your teeth and spend the couple of years. It also gives you time to look for exactly the right placement, whether or not it ends up being a pub. Also take a look at the PEL sites currently circulating here. You might have to become militant to get what you really want.

A few months after I retired, one of my former coworkers asked me why I looked so good. I told him that I didn't just leave, I had somewhere to go on my own terms.

Interestingly, once I made my move, other opportunities came my way unbidden. I have said "YES" to all of them. Say YES to life. You won't regret it.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:45 PM

Well it is possible you would be well served by posing the problem a bit differently. Is the loathing you have for your well-paying job because it is inherently loathsome? Or because you have over the years done things in it which you regret to the point where the whole environment takes on a flavor of disgust -- which actually comes only from a few particular instances where you did something harmful or regrettable?

If you really understand where the feelings come from, including how you may have contributed to them yourself, then follow your heart; but not before. One is a path of growth, and one is a path of flight.

A

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:45 PM

By the way, it helps if your life is flexible enough to allow you to devote time to the new project until you are set to make a full committment.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,not my real name
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 04:01 PM

I'm well aware that "not everybody who goes to a pub goes in order to get drunk or to overcome depression or forget about jobs they hate", but some do. Quite a few do, actually, enough that I think Lavender should think very, very hard about going into a business where any one of her customers could be demoted or fired, separated or divorced, arrested or killed, because of that customer's consumption of what Lavender sells to them.

Have we forgotten so soon what happened to Mrrzy's niece Dorian last spring, when she drove after drinking? If so, let's reread this thread: NonMusic: Thoughts for Mrr's Niece (and no, I'm not Mrrzy)

Then there's the guy who used to be my mailman. He got into a violent bar fight, serious enough that he developed a blood clot that made its way to his brain a couple of days later. He went into a coma and was on life support, brain-dead, till his family decided to unplug him. He was engaged to be married. Now there's a tree planted in front of the bar where he fought, with a little plaque to his memory in front of it. I just want Lavender to ask herself if she wants something like that in front of her pub.

There are many other second-career choices, Lavender. I urge you to consider them first before rushing out to buy a pub license.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 04:26 PM

Whatever you decide to do from a business standpoint,, let me make a suggestion. You're probably a person who takes pride in being damn good at what you do and are probably in a high stress/burnout occupation like teaching or social work where you have done most of it already and are disgusted with going through the motions. You get no "buzz" out of that......There was a time when the job was great because you felt you made a difference and now there are no mountains to climb. Oh, they're there, but the second or third or hundredth time isn't as satisfying as the first.

Two things-----You may hate it, but even a great teacher, caseworker, whatever who is now only going through the motions is still better than 95% of the rest! Second, make sure you are in a position to maximize whatever you can do on both a retirement and insurance standpoint. This one messed Karen and I up. We had the insurance but a little more time on the job could have significantly added to our savings when I left. I thought we were okay....I was wrong. We're makin' it and thankfully have great insurance, but with just a bit more time, we could have had a boatload more money today. We still made the right decision, just a bit more time would have made it easier.

Buy a pub when you can or whatever it is, but keep working til you have all the ducks in a row.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: MMario
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 04:45 PM

Guest - I don't think I can think of ANY occupation which has not sooner or later contributed to the death of some person.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 04:49 PM

The only other thing I'd add is minimise/downsize now, before you do your own thing, i.e. sell your house if it costs a lot to live in it and buy something smaller. Watch your spending habits, stretch your dollars farther, now. Make your life as cost-effective NOW while you have a good income and start putting the savings away.

Too many times, I've seen people get so excited about their own venture, thinking they were going to carry on as before and a ways down the road they lose everything because they didn't realise you don't go from start-up to good net earnings all at once.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,not my real name
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 05:11 PM

That may be so, MMario, but it does seem that bartenders and bar owners contribute to more deaths, sooner, than those in many other occupations do. And, again, I'm not just talking about death and injury but also about the many other ways lives are affected by drinking. I just can't fathom why anyone would go into a business whose goal is to bring more people in to drink more. I can't imagine wanting to watch the lives of my friends and neighbors change for the worse while I kept on pouring more alcohol for them to further worsen their lot. I can't imagine going to their funerals knowing I was the last person to see them alive as they were leaving my bar, and knowing for the rest of my life that my poor judgment – or the poor judgment of one of my employees – in not cutting off their drinks sooner was a factor in their death. I can't imagine watching each customer leave my bar and wondering if they were going to end the night in jail instead of at home.

But hey, that's just me. Maybe Lavender can imagine all that and can live with herself if any of that happens to her, as it's sure to do... sooner or later.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Amos
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 05:55 PM

Guest:

Regardless of other factors, I just wanted to say thanks for speaking for clear and honest convictions, doing it well, and menaing it.

Refreshing.

A

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 06:09 PM

I took an early retirement last fall, and don't regret it a bit. The health insurance is covered, and we can live on my pension. It took a little time, with the outgo greater than the income until we adjusted, so I'd suggest you start with Kat's plan as soon as possible.

If running a pub is what you want to do, go for it. Do you have a local that you frequent, where you can sit down with the owner and get a reality check? I don't know a thing about pub management, and not a lot about business in general, but there are classes available (at least where I live) in small business management. I remember a statistic that said that one out of three new businesses fail in the first year, so do everything possible to assure that you are on the good side of the equation.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Mudlark
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 06:29 PM

Lavender...Good advice about downsizing before leaping into a new life. Unless you are incredibly lucky/smart/whatever, almost surely your new job will be less lucrative than what you have now, for a while, a long time, maybe forever. So it's only wise to prepare for that, so you wont be discouraged by the money thing.

That is important, because money is inescapably important. And not having "enough" can make life awfully difficult. So being able to clearly and honestly determine how much is necessary for a lifestyle that suits you is the first order of business. Perhaps you could keep one foot in the door, work at the job you get well-paid for part-time, while getting experience with the job that makes you happy.

My husband and I left highly lucrative jobs in the computer industry in mid-career to become craftsmen. We worked long hours, had no "days off." We gave up vacations, dinners out, impulsive shopping, but came to feel most of those things were done to make us feel better about a life we weren't really happy with.

Though we lived poor by middle-class, urban standards, we never regretted leaving while still young enough to really enjoy ourselves. And there is a lot of satisfaction in learning to live lightly on the planet, while doing something that is deeply satisfying. Health, or the lack of it, more to the point, can a real stumbling block, however, esp. in the US, so be sure to give some thought to insurance.

I've never owned a pub (tho I've always had a secret desire to be a bartender), but I've been in several where dangerous over-imbibing and drunken fights were not tolerated...a lot depends on the owner/bartender, and the kind of place he/she wants, and works hard to maintain.

Living with a job you hate is very tiring...saps all your strength, leaving no room for good things to happen. Go for what you want...with self-knowledge and patience.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 06:37 PM

Think long and hard by all means, but I shoudnt give too much weight to the anti-pub GUEST. I can think of no human activity involving pleasure that isnt violently opposed by some group or other, normally with the full backing of the Almighty or some equivalent authority. Personally I love pubs, where I've heard the most civilised conversations and music that I've ever experienced. I don't claim pubs are essential to civilation, I just find them very conducive. And a good pub landlord brings pleasure to many, a focus to the community, an arts centre that doesnt require subsidy, and a haven of civilistion in a dodgy world. If that's what you decide to do, good luck. But it's desperately hard work.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: harpgirl
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 07:59 PM

I think about post retirement jobs myself and I have in mind a coffee cart to take to music festivals. Or I may join my tie dye friend in business if his "free and easy" lifestyle doesn't kill him first.

My parents taught bridge on cruise ships for a long time after my dad retired. Another psychologist friend has a small business buying and selling textbooks and selling his art.

I suspect that I won't have enough money to retire all the way so I'll have to make a living somehow. I'll land on my feet, though I believe, no matter what.

Make yourself happy, is my thought. I love my work still even though I get burn out about every four months....So since having significant (to me) work and as much fun as I can have (with music) has been my lifestyle for most of my adult life, if I retire poor, it doesn't scare me.

I do hope I cancontinue to afford my health insurance if I really need it before medicare, if that is really going to be left in the future when I need it.

Buy a pub if you really want to. Life is nasty brutish and too short not to be happy with your day to day existence. My .02C hg

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: bflat
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 08:18 PM

Well, I wouldn't do it if it meant that you worked seven days straight without time off, year after year. How about being ill and unable to work, who will step in? It gets pretty draining. I know firsthand. Did it for ten years. you'll meet a lot of interesting people but it is the rare one that will care if you are there or not, any bloak would do. Try to change where you are in your present career. Can you move your location? What could you do to infuse your workday with a fresh outlook? Whatever you do, I wish you luck.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 10:38 PM

"GUESTnotmyrealname". One less pub will not stop people from being irresponsible.

Pubs (here in the US) also happen to be where *most* of the folk music happens. If you want to see a show on a given Saturday night, the place to first start looking is the Pubs.

Additionally, here in the US, Pubs are more like restaurants with stages that also serve beer. And the bartenders I personally know watch the clientele and do not allow the drunk ones to get in a car unless it is with a sober driver (like a taxi, if necessary). It's the freakin' *clubs* that encourage you to do all sorts of self destructive crap, and then let you loose on the roads at 4 AM with no concerns (when I am glad to be #1: No where near the City, and #2: blissfully asleep).

If people are determined to act irresponsibly, fewer Pubs are not going to stop them. It was tried...remember prohibition?

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Callie
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 11:06 PM

Original Guest: have you thought about getting work in a bar for a while to get an update of how running a pub might work? You'd know pretty soon if you were making the right move and you'd also get to meet people working in the same area.

Good luck!

Callie

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 11:43 PM

The ONLY good threads started at the Mudcat are now posted by "GUESTS"

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: John O'L
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 12:04 AM

Well that was a perceptive, thoughtful and incisive observation.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 12:13 AM

Buy a PUB ????- ???HARPIE???

The 84 hour weeks would kindle yer corpse sooner than the fermented malt.

Youse best in the snug you patron now.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 12:20 AM

I must say I am in fact of two minds on this, garg. I come from a long line of hard drinking limey bastards and my own sobriety is still very tenuous, as it were. Malted beverages will be with us until we blow ourselves up, though, don't you think? So why the hell not? She'll go broke after the first lawsuit anyway! love and peace hg

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 12:41 AM

IF you buy the pub. Keep it clean. Offer no credit. Hire a locally known bar tender to help you find out who the known problems are. Promote family patronage. Be overly good to the community. Don't allow anything stronger than coffee to the bar staff during their hours and maybe consider not allowing them to drink there ever. Pay your bills on time, never spend your sales tax money on anything but sales tax.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Chris Amos
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 01:56 AM

DonMeixner offers sound advice.

A few years ago, having been made redundant from the printing industry, my wife and I decided to have a go at the pub game.

As we knew little about the licensed trade we thought it best to get some training. We took a job with one of the large brewing companies which, at that time, ran most of the pubs in the UK.

Now I could make this a long posting relating a lot of incidents that happened to us. I will keep it short and say that if you run a pub properly it will take up your life in a way that you can only guess at form your current day job.

You will work harder than you ever have in your life before you could get up at 6:30 to let they delivery in and not get to bed till midnight. You have to manage and motivate your staff and you also have to manage the clients. You can't get too friendly with your clients, the buggers will try to take advantage. You will learn a variety of new skills, stock control and order, accountancy, first aid, you name it. It can be, simultaneously, the most satisfying and the most frustrating job in the world.

Be careful which pub you buy, make sure it is one you can ave a good chance of turning into the sort of establishment you want to run.

I do other things now but publicans have my admiration.

regards and good luck

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Lavender
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 10:58 AM

thank you, those with constructive input, you have been very helpful.For the guest who feels all pubs are a menace to society I can only say that alcohol will always be for sale, one more responsible landlord/lady is surely a good thing?

I do plan on working behind a bar again before I make any kind of decision and yes, I know it is hard work, but so is what I do now.Thanks for the advice...I won't make a quick decision but when I do, I'll report back.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 12:04 PM

Guest Lavender

You mention a career which I have now come to loathe.

I would not want to discourage you from making changes that you feel will make things better, but there is the tendency sometimes to see a possible solution and grasp it as the only solution.

May we assume that you have spent some time in considering why you no longer enjoy your present career, and have looked for ways to make it, again, more rewarding? And have you looked at a "lateral advancement" to somewhere where you might enjoy your present career more?

Assuming that you've fully considered all your options, then I'd encourage you to get out of a bad situation, and into something you like. I would encourage an open mind, though, until you are ready to make the "big commitment."

John

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: smallpiper
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 12:38 PM

I hate to sound trite but shit you only live once so bugger the objectors and follow your heart. (having recently had a heart attack this means something to me)

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 12:52 PM

In other words, prepare, prepare, prepare...go for it!

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,not my real name
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 01:15 PM

Lavender, whether serving alcohol is responsible or not depends on how you define the term.

One dictionary definition is "legally accountable." So if you intend to be responsible in that way, keep a weather eye on the court case in New Jersey USA that a jury is deliberating on as I write: a man is charged with manslaughter, vehicular homicide and aggravated assault by auto for his role in a fatal auto accident. He wasn't in the accident; he picked up his drunken buddy at a police barracks after the buddy had been arrested for drunken driving, and he drove the drunken buddy back to the buddy's car instead of to the buddy's home. The buddy then drove away and ran head-on into another vehicle; both drivers died, and the passenger in the other vehicle suffered life-threatening critical injuries. Why do I mention this? Because we could soon see bartenders and pub owners being charged for allowing patrons to leave their establishments with a blood-alcohol level over the legal limit, when those patrons then have auto accidents.

How would a "responsible" pub owner keep all of his customers in a condition where their driving ability would not be impaired? Be present whenever the pub is open, and keep every one of your customers at the bar, serving them coffee or Coke until they sober up before letting them out the door? Tell them they can only have one drink per hour? Give them breathalyzer tests just to be sure? Interesting theories, but they don't sound feasible (or lucrative). As others on this thread have said, prohibition doesn't work, not even a temporary prohibition. And making a "responsible" judgment call about each customer's sobriety before he leaves is never failsafe.

For those who say that alcohol is here to stay and people will abuse it anyway and one less bar wouldn't help the problem substantially, I certainly agree that all of that is true. On the other hand, one more bar would exacerbate the problem because it offers one more attraction toward alcohol abuse. My basic question to Lavender is: do you want to be part of the problem? To me, the "responsible" behavior would be to NOT sell alcohol in an environment where encouraging its continued consumption is your reason for being in business.

Why not find a more "responsible" line of work? If you want to be a landlord/landlady, why not buy an apartment building? Why does it have to be a pub?

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 01:55 PM

Lavender,

Given that you only worked in the trade for a year, and long ago, I rather imagine that this "pub" business is more of an escapist fantasy than anything else--still, you hate your job, and that is real enough---Amos' advice is good--try to understand why you loathe your job--it will help you more than anything else in deciding what your next step should be--

I try to avoid non-music postings anymore, but I've just lost a close friend to cancer--it came on quickly, and he was too young--the one consolation we have is that he spent a lot of time doing the things he enjoyed and cared about--if you put these things off til later, remember that there may be no "later"--

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,not my real name
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 02:36 PM

I meant to post a link to an article about that court case I mentioned, where a guy's on trial for vehicular homicide even though he didn't drive either car that was in the fatal accident. It is at http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/8602_drunk.html

You'll notice that the guy's drunken buddy had gotten drunk at a go-go bar – not a "pub", but nevertheless a bar – and had already been arrested and taken from his car. The defendant is on trial because of his poor judgment in thinking his buddy had sobered up enough at the police barracks that it was safe for him to drive. They're calling this a landmark case – if this guy is found guilty, it will set a precedent and we can expect to see more trials like this in the future. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 04:53 PM

This drift seems to be more about morality than about what to do with your life. We all have to live with the consequences of our actions, whether or not we go to gaol for them. We are not the good shepherd, chasing after the missing lamb, we are the people doing the best we can with our own actions.

If Lavender sets up as a publican and enjoys keeping an eye out for her neighbors as well as having a good time for herself in between the labors needed to provide the publican's services, so be it. If she chooses a less demanding line of work, this, too, is her choice.

The original question was: Should I change jobs and how should I go about getting out of doing what I hate? Digressions about the morality of her choices are more for people to get their rocks off on the pulpit provided than to say anything useful.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 10:48 PM

You get what you pay for EBarnacle

Only a fool would request free advice from a folk-song forum regarding the folies of their future.

A spouse, friend, minister, couselor, even the regular on the bus-bench, is a better sage.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 11:04 PM

Now is this a new psychopath or the one from MY THREAD?

The Growler Song

There was a little man

and he had a little can

And he took it to the growler!

You oughta hear the ole man holler!

No beer today, no beer today, we don't sell beer on Sunday

Better come around on Monday...

Blackburn, Lancashire, no doubt!

What's the rest? hg

Subject: Lyr Add: NO MORE BOOZE
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Aug 02 - 11:17 PM

A popular song in the 1920's

NO MORE BOOZE

There was a little man, and he had a little can,
And he used to rush the growler;
He went to the saloon on a Sunday afternoon,
And you ought to hear the bartender holler

Chorus:

"No more booze, no more booze,
No more booze on Sunday;
No more booze, no more booze,
Got to get your can filled Monday.
She's the only girl I love,
With a face like a horse and buggy.
Leaning up against the lake,
O fireman! save my child!"

The chambermaid came to my door,
"Get up, you lazy sinner,
We need those sheets for tablecloths,
And it's almost time for dinner."

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Aug 02 - 01:00 AM

LOL, harp! You can pontificate on the follies of my future any time!! :>))


A

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Susie
Date: 08 Aug 02 - 05:04 PM

Go for it. Why ever not? There's been loads of advice about pensions and whatever but Guest's warnings are heavily weighted towards temperance. I say, think for yourself - drunkenness is not the way of all the world nowadays and pubs are much more than just a place to get drunk. Has "Guest" never actually enjoyed going into a "local" when people are there to enjoy the chat and the company. Sad for him. Drink is enjoyable at the pub BUT often incidental. As the publican anyway, you will (I hope) have the right to serve or not to serve people according to your own assessment of their ability to cope / whether they have to drive etc . . . . whatever. Don't live your life in a job you loathe? Imagine - ten years down the line if you stay where you are . .. another 10 years of hating what you do? another 10 years of kicking yourself for not making a change. If being a publican appeals to you - try it. It's not the end of the world if - after a year or so - you decide it's not for you. But if it is - what a great future - goodbye to that awful job and hello to something where it's your own personality up for all to see, where YOU make it work. Get out now. Life does not wait around . . . and you only have one life.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: smallpiper
Date: 09 Aug 02 - 06:54 AM

To the temperence mob - a publican only serves the drink but the punters have the choice to drink or not. No one can force a person to get drunk and each of us makes our own choices. If you go down the line of making the publican guilty for the publics crimes where do you stop. Surely car manufacturers should be held responsible for the irresponsible actions of those that have accidents in cars?

Do what you need to do and don't put it off do it now.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,maryrrf
Date: 09 Aug 02 - 12:48 PM

And if you want to really carry that ideology to a ridiculous extent, how about the man (in the United States) who is suing several fast food chains such as MacDonalds, Wendy's, Kentucky Fried Chicken and I don't know what others - for making him obese! Poor eating habits lead to clogged arteries, high blood pressure, obesity, strokes, heart attacks and all kinds of problems but where do you draw the line - I mean where does personal responsibility kick in???? You can't blame fast food chains for people being overweight, and you can't blame publicans for people getting drunk. Here's a thought - If I get a triple order of extra large sized fries, burger, shake etc and sit down to eat, and it's obvious I'm going to scarf it all down myself, should a fast food employee cut me off?????

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 09 Aug 02 - 02:17 PM

Smallpiper, the only difference between what you and I are saying is that I believe it is a good idea to prepare yourself and not just jump off in a moment of loathing.

The prepared person can go, fast and far, because a defined target is set up.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Aug 02 - 09:21 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Old Fart
Date: 10 Aug 02 - 11:53 AM

Lavender,

Let me share a few thoughts regarding this mid-life stuff. Keep in mind...I'm an "old fart" looking at the world through a very old lens.

First of all, don't get discouraged.. You will find the answer to your mid-life crisis, which will make good practice for solving future problems...including a late-life crisis or two.

A career change might work...but I would question that a little. Most of the "changes" we pursue....moving to the country, buying a new home, moving to the city, buying a pub, pursuing a new mistress, remodeling the bathroom, cursing the boss....are usually not "the answer" but merely a normal reaction to the repetitive nature of life...boredom, if you will. We need to remember that repetition is a requirement of success. The honing of our skills, our careers and our relationships requires repetition, and a common side-effect of that repetition is boredom.

Boredom is tough though. It pulls us along the path...to other issues, time related issues that can get a little scary. But boredom is OK, it forces us to think, it leads us to that crossroad.

So, what's the answer to your mid-life crisis? Well, I can only offer a little suggestion that has worked for me in the past. When I find myself dealing with a mid-life crisis (now a late-life crisis), I ask myself the following question: "What can I do today to help someone less fortunate than myself?"

Now this may sound silly. You might think that I am actually avoiding the issue all together. All I can say is..."it works." I have used this strategy on numerous occasions and it works! It clears my head, allowing me to deal with my own crisis more effectively.

I guess we can't solve every crisis. Unfortunately, we've been given a brain that's kind of an awkward size...just big enough to ponder the dilemma but too small to solve it. There is good news though....our heart is just the right size.

Good Luck.

Old Fart

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Aug 02 - 05:04 PM

Hell I'm not saying jump in with out any preperation. That would be silly but the very fact that this thread was posted at all implies a degree of preperation does it not!

One thing that I am saying is that responsibility lies entirely with the individual right from the start. We make choices, good or bad, and we deal with any consequenses which in turn leads to more choice making and as long as a decision is "choicefull" we can't moan about the consequemses. ie the obese guy, the drunk or what ever.

I personally think that helping someone less fortunate than yourself should not be a matter of concious thought but a daily bi-product of the way we live our lives. or perhaps I'm just an idealist.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Skipjack
Date: 10 Aug 02 - 06:26 PM

Old Fart, you may be aged, and malodorous, but you are wise. I enjoyed your thoughts. Thank you. You aren't my father, are you?

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Aug 02 - 11:49 AM

I thought the same thing, skipjack but I know my father can't type that well! As a professional advice giver myself, OF's is my favorite of the whole thread!!!

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 12 Aug 02 - 12:25 AM

Now that you have that particular bug in your ear, you may not have much choice but to go ahead. If you don't all you will have is one more regret.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 02 - 09:39 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Old Fart
Date: 12 Aug 02 - 10:53 AM

Lavender,

The loathing you speak of is very common these days. I think all of us feel it at some point. I know I have.

The terms "career burnout" and "mid-life crisis" are relatively new expressions, however (remember now, an "old fart" is working with a slightly different time-line.) Anyway, these "new words" appear to be the parents of another timely phrase...."pursuing one's passion." I wonder about this concept....lately it kind of haunts me.

Previous to these plethoric times....for thousands and thousands of years, in fact, people worked for a very specific reason....to provide for others. Their motive was not altruistic, however....it was born out of necessity. People "had" to work for "the group." The tribe, the clan, the farm, the family...was all that mattered. The focus was not "what kind of work?"... the focus was always "why do we work?"... and the answer was pretty obvious. Consider the word "PROVIDER." It literally means..."one who contributes to the welfare of others."

Perhaps "pursuing one's passion" is a classic example of getting the cart in front of the horse. Maybe, in these modern times, these times of extreme abundance, it would be good to re-examine our definition of "passion."

Perhaps we could somehow recall an old-fashion notion.....that the gift of having a job is the potential contribution we can all make to "others." Maybe that notion could add true meaning and significance to our difficult and often repetitive work, and that understanding would help us to shift our thoughts to the more important question of "why we work?"

If we could all be a little more focused on "maximizing our contribution," then maybe "passion" would become the natural bi-product of that meaningful work.

Old Fart

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,fretless, at work
Date: 12 Aug 02 - 12:34 PM

I've gotta agree with GUEST,not my real name on this one. I spent a few years running a bar/pub-based Thursday and Saturday night folk music program back in the late 70s-early 80s. Great music (I did the booking and I booked music I loved -- how could it not be terrific!), wonderful people (including the woman I eventually married), even made adequate money. But eventually, I gave the program away because it was just too wearing dealing with the alcohol abuse. There wasn't much -- but it doesn't take much. Just one abuser in your weekly bar/pub event on Saturday night means you are dealing with an unpleasant situation EVERY week. And unpleasasnt situations are inevitable when you are dispensing alcohol.

This isn't entirely a morality issue, although GUEST,not my real name is sort of phrasing it that way, and GUEST nmrn has a valid point in this regard. But I would encourage you to think about this asa YOU issue, Lavender. Think hard before you put yourself in a situation where it is your responsibility as the publican to deal with the one jerk (or the one poor alcoholic bastard) in the crowd who is hell bent on making life miserable for everyone else. And think hard before putting yourself in the situation of having to accept the fact that you provided the substance that facilitated the jerk's abusiveness. Sure, the idiot will find another pub if your's isn't available. That isn't the issue. The question is whether you want to put yourself dead smack center in the line of fire on this one. I eventually decided that it was more fun being a patron at a pub than a manager; and when it came time for my mid-life job change, I went someplace else.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Aug 02 - 02:14 AM

are pubkeepers allowed to set a limit in general for how much beer they will sell..like say 3 drinks total for the evening...so people who wanted to get soused would go somewhere else...if it was advertised that way and enforced, is that legal etc.?

mg

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 02:16 AM

You've made it twice as far as most....and you'rE NOW 2/3rds of the way home. Don't sweat the little stuff. EAT DRINK AND BE MARRY, FOR TOMORROW YOUR SOUL MAY BE REQUIRED OF YOU.

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: smallpiper
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 10:45 AM

Sobering thought! However - Old Fart - is to persue ones passion exclusive of providing for others? My understanding is that most passions are abouit providing something for someone else in fact I can't think of a single thing that would be selfish - unless it be the persuit of world domination and is that relistic?

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: Willie-O
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 11:45 AM

I don't know what the law is in other countries, but if you were odd enough to own a pub and put a 3-drink limit on all your patrons, I imagine that would be OK in Ontario the Good. The law here is that you're not supposed to serve someone, in either a bar or a liquor store, who appears to be already intoxicated. A law which of course has widely varying application.

A bartender or server (or party host) is not 100% liable for the actions of someone after they have been served alcohol, but there is a definite liability factor involved. Most interesting case recently was a woman who sued her own company after she got drunk at the office Christmas party, drove away, and caused an accident. (I don't remember her name, but try searching in Google for liability and chutzpah, that oughtta find it!)

But I think you should go for it. I'm fully in favour of having a nice, friendly, moderation-encouraged pub in every town. In the real world, the drinking places that cause problems are the ones that keep on juicing you when you're obviously hammered. They're pretty easy to spot, just step inside one and you'll know you won't want to stay long.

Willie-O
think I'll be off to the pub for lunch soon
batching it this week

Subject: RE: BS: mid-life crisis?
From: GUEST,Old Fart
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 09:27 PM

Smallpiper...You and I see things pretty much the same, with the possible exception of your notion of the word "selfish".

"Maximizing our contribution" to others might be the most (rationally) "selfish" thing we can do.

A young couple recently told me that they had decided to never have any children. They said, "we are too "selfish" to consider it." My answered seemed to confuse them when I said....."Who ever told you having children wasn't selfish?"

Old Fart