Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2]


Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?

Related threads:
Is Cm7sus a real chord? (46)
Diminished chord notation question (32)
Naming of diminished chords (34)
Question about parallel fifths (51)
got killed by a ma7th chord again tonite (72)
Music Theory Question (31)
Passing notes in chord construction (24)
Predictable Chord patterns (48)
Music Theory:Diff.between dominant 5 & dom7 (19)
Working out chords - through theory? (29)
Suspended chords (24)
I Love Major Seventh Chords! (39)
Mudcat Seems To Be Diminished (30)
Help: Figuring out chords (6)


JohnnyBGoode 18 Aug 02 - 07:20 PM
Mark Cohen 18 Aug 02 - 07:23 PM
Murray MacLeod 18 Aug 02 - 07:25 PM
Sorcha 18 Aug 02 - 07:34 PM
Murray MacLeod 18 Aug 02 - 07:39 PM
Mark Clark 18 Aug 02 - 08:08 PM
GUEST 18 Aug 02 - 08:17 PM
toadfrog 18 Aug 02 - 08:25 PM
Mark Clark 18 Aug 02 - 08:31 PM
Nancy King 18 Aug 02 - 08:32 PM
Justa Picker 18 Aug 02 - 08:37 PM
Sorcha 18 Aug 02 - 09:12 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 18 Aug 02 - 09:17 PM
Malcolm Douglas 18 Aug 02 - 09:19 PM
Mark Clark 18 Aug 02 - 09:21 PM
Sorcha 18 Aug 02 - 09:34 PM
khandu 18 Aug 02 - 10:24 PM
Genie 19 Aug 02 - 02:18 AM
Mark Cohen 19 Aug 02 - 02:44 AM
Catherine Jayne 19 Aug 02 - 06:08 AM
allanwill 19 Aug 02 - 10:27 AM
Jim Krause 19 Aug 02 - 10:46 AM
Catherine Jayne 19 Aug 02 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,Fred Miller 19 Aug 02 - 05:10 PM
Murray MacLeod 19 Aug 02 - 07:04 PM
Benjamin 19 Aug 02 - 07:06 PM
Murray MacLeod 19 Aug 02 - 07:10 PM
michaelr 19 Aug 02 - 09:59 PM
Genie 19 Aug 02 - 11:17 PM
Benjamin 20 Aug 02 - 02:16 AM
Steve Parkes 20 Aug 02 - 03:25 AM
Catherine Jayne 20 Aug 02 - 09:17 AM
Jim Krause 20 Aug 02 - 11:32 AM
Grab 20 Aug 02 - 11:46 AM
GUEST,Bagpuss 20 Aug 02 - 12:00 PM
Kim C 20 Aug 02 - 12:00 PM
bob jr 20 Aug 02 - 12:15 PM
C-flat 20 Aug 02 - 12:30 PM
Murray MacLeod 20 Aug 02 - 07:57 PM
Murray MacLeod 20 Aug 02 - 08:01 PM
Benjamin 20 Aug 02 - 10:03 PM
Benjamin 20 Aug 02 - 10:06 PM
michaelr 20 Aug 02 - 10:29 PM
GUEST 21 Aug 02 - 08:53 AM
JohnnyBGoode 21 Aug 02 - 11:52 AM
Don Firth 21 Aug 02 - 01:10 PM
JohnnyBGoode 21 Aug 02 - 01:42 PM
Murray MacLeod 21 Aug 02 - 08:13 PM
Don Firth 22 Aug 02 - 12:29 PM
GUEST,guest 22 Aug 02 - 02:01 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: JohnnyBGoode
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:20 PM

I have quite an aversion to it, especially when passing the guitar around.

This aversion is getting worse. I can't even say the name anymore...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:23 PM

I think there's a twelve-step group for that, Johnny. But whatever you do, DON'T get stuck on the 11th step!

Aloha,
Mark


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:25 PM

I am with you on this, JbG. Major sevenths are the devil's trademark. They conjure up images of smoky lounge bars and crooners with hunched shoulders.

M.Ted may well disagree however and I look forward to his input.

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:34 PM

Why? What is the problem? Granted, I only play fiddle, not guitar, but I use 7th all the time when chopping. We fiddlers only have 2 strings available for chording so our options are sort of limited.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:39 PM

Sorcha, Johann Sebastian Bach would have expected you to have four strings available for chording.

How do you play a major seventh on two strings? G on the fourth string and F# on the third ?

Are you not thinking of flattened sevenths, Sorcha?

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 08:08 PM

What kind of question is that? Notes, chords and rhythms are the language of music. Are we going to limit our use of language?

This reminds me of the rules for writing product documentation for products being delivered to the military services. Elaborate software is used to evaluate the text in manuals to guarantee that the vocabulary and usage don't go beyond what can can be easily understood by someone with an eighth grade education.

Perhaps no music should be written by people whose education has exceeded the eight grade. Even then we might be in trouble. Eighth graders who have also pursued a musical education commonly play major seventh chords. They may not realize it, but they do.

I guess if all you want to play is old-time string band tunes or British music hall tunes you can get by without major seventh chords. As a good friend and professional fiddler is fond of saying: “Playing old-time music is the next thing to not being able to play.&rdequo; Of course he also enjoys playing the old-time tunes but he can also play anything else he cares to play.

Long live the major seventh chord!

      - Mark


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 08:17 PM

Agree with Mark

Maj7 chords (in the right place) can be wonderful

Kinda a dumb thread


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: toadfrog
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 08:25 PM

Not necessarily a dumb question. Major seventh chords, except in blues, do not sound right to me. I don't have enough theory to say why, but to me there is something phoney about the sound of a major seventh in a dominant chord. Am not sure why, but I'll bet there is a reason.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 08:31 PM

Well of course you aren't going to hear a major seventh in a dominant chord, are you? Dominant refers to playing a flatted seventh so you're probably not going to hear a dominant seventh chord played with the major seventh added as well.

      - Mark


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Nancy King
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 08:32 PM

Mark --

"Playing old-time music is the next thing to not being able to play.&rdequo...

Umm. What?

Who makes the rules about what chords we can play anyhow? Is this a new trend? Major 7ths are uncool?

Cheers, Nancy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 08:37 PM

Without them Jobim music wouldn't sound the same.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 09:12 PM

Hmmm. Now I don't know what I play....D maj is D/F#; the 7th I use in Dmaj is F#/B. In Gmaj, I use G/b and C/Fnat or F#/B. Are those true 7th's or flatted 7th's? No fiddler can bow all 4 strings at once--if the bridge is shaped right and you're good, it is possible to get 3 at once; or you can rock the bow to get a full chord and it sounds like you played all of them at once but you didn't. It's called (I think) a "rolled" chord.

When "chopping" I just don't think it is possible to get more than 2 notes at once. Chopping is that thing that Allison Krause does while she is singing--fingering and sort of beating at the strings way low on the bow.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 09:17 PM

I don't have anything against maj 7th chords in the right setting. In fact, one of my compositions uses five of the little buggers. But, I think that is the only piece I do that even has a single one. They're not very versatile things are they? You can't substitute a maj 7th for a more common chord the way you can a 9th or a minor 7th unless you want some really funny looks from the rest of the band.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 09:19 PM

It's a matter of taste. 7ths work in some kinds of tunes and not in others; they hardly ever work in British or Irish traditional music, for example, though a lot of people who don't perhaps understand the idiom do seem to insist on using them. They tend to screw up the tune. So far as traditional music is concerned, the golden rule is never to use a note in an accompaniment that doesn't occur in the melody you are accompanying; unless you really know what you're doing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 09:21 PM

Nancy, my friend is just venting. He's a brilliant fiddler who had recorded professionally with many of the best players around and he just gets tied of too many jam sessions attened by people with too few skills. He has in fact recorded his own albums of old-time fiddle tunes and loves the music as much as anyone here. He's just tired of people who artifically limit their musical horrizons. He teaches fiddle as well and has great patience for those who are genuinely tring to improve.

Sorcha, your view of chopping is correct, short bursts of double stops on two adjacent strings. Some fiddlers bounce the bow in a normal playing position and some hold the fiddle like a mandolin, grasp the bow by the frog and chop downward almost like a flatpick motion. I imagine you already do it both ways.

      - Mark


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 09:34 PM

Yea, Mark, and then there is the "hold the fiddle way down below the shoulder" method. I can also pizz my chords in either a fiddle or guitar position. Or left hand pizz, for that matter. We have a great tune called Bear Creek Hop that begins with pizz/arco x 4.

I thought I knew theory but I am still confoozeled about this Maj7th/flatted 7th stuff..........I thought flatted 7th was only in Mixolydian mode (here we go on modes again..........)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: khandu
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 10:24 PM

As a fingerpicker, I use Maj7th and just about every chord I know. Chords that sound just awful when strummed are sometimes the best chords to use fingerpicking.

"To everything there is a season..."

khandu


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Genie
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 02:18 AM

Toadfrog, You say "...Major seventh chords, except in blues, do not sound right to me... . " Have you ever tried to play "My Favorite Things," or "The Christmas Song," or "La Vie En Rose," or any number of popular or jazz songs or show tunes without a major 7th? Granted, there may be few "folk songs" that use or need a major 7th, but a lot of popular, jazz, and show tunes do-- not just blues.

Personally, I love major 7ths (though I don't try to insert them into "Wildwood Flower"). There are some chords that send shivers down my spine, and major 7ths are among them.

I actually have an arrangement of "Wild Mountain Thyme" that I do just for the fun of it that uses a major 7th, 2 minor 7ths, and a minor 6th. Doesn't sound real "folky," but I like it, just for a change.

khandu, I'm with you: there are chords that don't sound so hot when strummed but sound really neat as arpeggios or when finger picked.

Genie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 02:44 AM

Sorch, let's say you're playing a folk song in G. The chords go G-C-D-G, but you want to show off, so when you get to the D you'll play a seventh chord. That would be D7: D-F#-A-C. (This is assuming you play a chorded instrument, which you don't, but let's not get hung up on details!) Since the C is a half-step below the normal 7th note of the D scale, it's sometimes called a flatted 7th. It's also commonly called a dominant 7th, since the D is the dominant (V) chord in this key.

Dmaj7, on the other hand, is D-F#-A-C#. You can think of it as a chord that includes the 7th of the major scale, in this case, C#; hence, major 7th. It doesn't work as a dominant 7th (playing G-C-Dmaj7-G in a folk song will definitely get you strange looks), but it's often used as a substitute for the tonic chord in "jazzier" styles (along with the 6th). Are you any less confused now?

Aloha,
Mark


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 06:08 AM

You can play chords on the fiddle you just have to spread them. If you don't Maj 7th chords try something else I like the Neopolitan 7th chord.....it adds a different colour. But I have to admitt that I do like the major 7th chord. Composers such as Mozart and JS Bach wrote chords in their violin music. The difficulty is playing fugues on the fiddle!!

Cat


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: allanwill
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 10:27 AM

I agree with Genie - I love major 7ths, especially a Cmaj7 - Fmaj7 progression. They're also great for a final chord on slow, moody songs.

Allan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 10:46 AM

The Rule of Chord Substitution says:
Any chord may be substituted for another chord of the same function as long as the melody permits.

If the melody permits, I say use 'em.
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 11:10 AM

I meant to suggest Neoploitan 6th chords....they can be fun!!!

cat


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 05:10 PM

I'm a regular user, it's part of some songs I like. But I think it's interesting and idiomatic how some people just set certain things aside that they don't feel right about. I play guitar and hardly ever play in Emaj, which is odd. Go figure.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 07:04 PM

The Rule of Chord Substitution says: "Any chord may be substituted for another chord of the same function as long as the melody permits."

Jim, nothing personal here, but

1) Vho wrote that rule ?

2) Wnat the hell does it mean? What is a "chord of the same function"?

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Benjamin
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 07:06 PM

Man, I'd forgotten all about those N6 chords.Those are fun! The IV chord actually sounds great as a M7 chord. M7s also work great in cadential 6/4 chords. I personally love the sound. The other one is the minor 7th chord. That is the most underused 7th chord.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 07:10 PM

Benjamin, sometimes you are just so full of shit.

The danger is, some people mught take you seriously ...

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 09:59 PM

Jim -- what Murray said! And:

"as long as the melody permits"? How long does it permit? What about after hours? And how do you apply for permission?

Seriously, you may think your post clarified the issue, but I for one am mystified. Please explain!

Michael


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Genie
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 11:17 PM

How about that F flat Major 7th augmented sustained flatted 5th diminished chord? Now there's a beaut!

*BG*


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Benjamin
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:16 AM

Murry, That hurts! Seriously! How am I not suppose to take that as a personal attack? It's not my fault if you never bothered to put yourself through school and therefore can't follow a word I say! Didn't your parents tell you that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:25 AM

Sorcha (and any other fiddle player): the violin bow was originally bow-shaped (whence the name, I suppose), which made it possible to play three- or even four-string chords. Don't ask me whether that well-know guitarist JSB would have had an old-style or modern bow, though ...

Steve


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 09:17 AM

Benjamin I know what you mean minor 7th chords can be so juicey ( a phrase my university lecturer used) I quite like diminished 7th chords, augmented 7th's can be quite weird!!!

Cat


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 11:32 AM

Murray,
It's a standard textbook rule of music theory, and is quite well known by jazz guitarists, bassists, and pianists, less well known by folkies.

Simply put, all seven chords in the diatonic scale (the white keys on the piano) can be divided up into four categories or functions. These are:

  • Tonic
  • Subdominant
  • Dominant
  • Diminished
Using the key of C for example chords that fall under the Tonic function are:
  • C, Em, and Am. These are Stable, at rest
Chords that fall under the Subdominant function are:
  • Dm, and F. These are unstable and moving.
Chords that fall under the Dominant function are:
  • G7 This one is very unstable and moving.
Chords that fall under the diminished function are:
  • Bdim, and Ddim. This chord is also very unstable and moving, resolving to the C chord.

Probably clear as mud without my little hand out sheet that I usually use to teach this subject. But I hope this helped some.
Jim


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Grab
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 11:46 AM

Nothing wrong with major 7th - just about anything that has a descending run uses a major 7th in it, usually as the second chord in the sequence (eg. "C, Cmaj7, Am"). Stairway to heaven, Time in a bottle, Whiter shade of pale, etc, etc.

Where the major 7th is in the bass (eg. a bass run) then it may be labelled differently, eg. C/B. So the same bass run may be marked "C, C/B, Am".

Graham.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 12:00 PM

I know the difference between 7ths (which I don't like very often)and maj7ths (which I use quite a lot and generally like). However, I am now confused as to which one the person who started the thread dislikes....

Bagpuss


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Kim C
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 12:00 PM

Steve, you're right, baroque-style bows have a curved stick, like a.... bow, in a D shape. But the hair is still straight, so I'm not sure I understand how the shape of the stick would allow a person to strike all four strings at once. Bridges are curved, putting the strings in an arc, and hair is flat - maybe there is something I am missing in the geometry. The best I can do is 3 strings at once.

Anyway, as regards chords, play what you feel and forget about the rest. UNLESS the person who wrote the song is also playing with you, and says otherwise! ;-) You'll know what sounds right and what doesn't.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: bob jr
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 12:15 PM

that major burns use to make me laugh on mash but that major winchester was alot less funny


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: C-flat
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 12:30 PM

I don't really understand the problem with playing a Major7th chord provided it's in the right place.
As Justapicker rightly says, you'd struggle to play "Girl from Ippenema" without one!
The only time I object to them is when they're used as a cheesy closing chord.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:57 PM

Benjamin, sorry for any offence caused, I had assumed your post was humorous. If it wasn't, then we need to talk....

Jim, I cannot get to grips with your concepts. How does Ddim feature in the scheme of things in the scale of C Major? Ddim contains a G#.

Bdim is essentially just another way of describing Bdim, or Fdim, or G#dim. If you are regarding the triad formed by B-D-F as a diminished chord, IMHO you are way off-beam. It makes much more sense to regard it as part of a G7 chord, (G-B-D-F)the dominant seventh chord in the scale of C Major.

Diminished chords need FOUR notes to define them.

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 08:01 PM

"Bdim is essentially just another way of describing Bdim, or Fdim, or G#dim

What I meant to write, of course was

"Bdim is essentially just another way of describing Ddim, or Fdim, or G#dim"

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Benjamin
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:03 PM

Murry, my post was serious (though I may have been trying to have some fun). However you take it, you don't need swear at me for it. I honestly don't see much to talk about here.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Benjamin
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:06 PM

Oh, and Murry, diminished chords need 3 notes to define them. Diminished and half diminished 7th chords need 4 notes to define them. That 7th makes a difference.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:29 PM

All that theory makes my head spin. Play me a G-demolished!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 08:53 AM

toad,

a maj7 chord in a blues tune would sound pretty wimpy to this ear...remember the pop band "America?" Think 'Ventura Highway,' ... these guys launched their careers from the maj7 chord.

Perhaps you were thinking of the so-called 'dominant' 7th chord? Now we're talking blues...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: JohnnyBGoode
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 11:52 AM

I know they have their place...however, I was passing my guitar around at a party the other night, and was more in the mood for stronger, harder-hitting songs.

A maj7 kick got started, "America" style. Got tired of it!

It became a joke, etc...now I'll have to find some maj7th contexts that I'm comfortable with! Something by the Beatles is one I can think of off-hand.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 01:10 PM

Reading through this thread, I get the sense that not everybody is talking about the same thing.

I've heard people refer to an ordinary Dominant 7th chord as a "major 7th" because the basic triad is major. Not accurate. A Dominant 7th is a major triad with a note added. The added note is an interval of a minor 7th above the root [Example—G, B, D, plus F]. A major 7th chord would be a major triad with an added note a major 7th above the root [Example—G, B, D, plus F#]. For all practical purposes, there is no such thing as an interval of a diminished or augmented 7th. A diminished 7th would be the same as a major 6th and an augmented 7th would be the same as an octave.

Classical musicians and musicologists consider that the triad B, D, and F does constitute a diminished chord. A triad is a basic chord stripped to its bare bones. Jazz musicians and people who learned what music theory they know out of a guitar manual usually assume that a diminished chord has to have the 7th added because that's what the chord diagrams usually show, and that's the way they usually use it. A diminished 7th chord a sort of "catch-all" chord. Since any one of the four notes can be taken as the leading tone, it can resolve to any of four different chords, making for easy modulations. A dominant 7th (which contains a diminished triad) resolves to only one chord (the tonic). To further add to the confusion, the 7th in a diminished 7th chord is the exception to the idea that there is no such interval as a diminished 7th. The added note is a diminished 7th, (enharmonic with a major 6th), but if you don't "spell" it that way, it could lead to endless confusion in the way subsequent chords would need to be written—assuming you're writing a fairly formal composition. This is sort of the "basic spelling" part of music theory. Knowing all this would be beyond the practical needs of most folk musicians. But not knowing it can lead to confusion when trying to communicate with other musicians.

I do use major 7th chords from time to time, but sparingly and judiciously. They're very lush. In the version of The Braes of Yarrow that I do, I use an F major 7th (F, A, C, E) just before the final Am in each verse. It would give a purist wall-eyed fits if he knew what the chord was, but boy, does it work!

The ultimate test is how does it sound?

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: JohnnyBGoode
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 01:42 PM

My fault on some confusion -- should've specified CHORD in the thread title...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 08:13 PM

I am getting rapidly tired of this discussion. I have listened to the whole recorded output of Blind Blake enough to know the difference between a diminished chord and a triad which forms part of a dominant seventh.

A diminished chord is a chord comprising notes each separated from the next by an interval of three semitones. And it goes all the way up from low tonic to high tonic.

An augmented chord is a chord comprising notes each separated from the next by an interval of four semitones. And it goes all the way up from low tonic to high tonic.

That's it , period.

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 12:29 PM

On the question of the distinction between diminished chords and diminished 7th chords, check HERE and HERE. And there is a wealth of good information HERE. And some more HERE. If you search for "music theory" in google.com, you'll be inundated with good stuff.

The sites I've linked to are just a few of the ones available. They can provide the answers to most questions about music theory (scales, modes, intervals, chords, and the terminology that trained musicians use). They are specifically for guitarists, but the information is consistent with formal music theory. I recommend highly.

Don Firth


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Do you think it's ok to play a maj 7th?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 02:01 PM

one more time.

In the key of G, D is the dominant chord. C is the seventh note above D. Because we are in the key of G, C occurs naturally. So the seventh of the dominant is not flatted, but natural.

If we added a seventh to the tonic (G), it would be a major seventh because F is sharped within the G scale. We can flat that F# to F natural. Then it would be referred to as a flatted seventh.

We then can resolve the resulting chord (G7) to the subdominant (C) of the key. It is also possible to resolve the chord to A minor (known as a deceptive cadence). We could also resolve to an F# chord or B chord treating the minor seventh as an augmented sixth.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 26 September 8:21 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.