BS: London, best City in the world?

Subject: London, best City in the world?
From: Red Eye
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:54 AM

Just got back from a week in London. Took my two children to all the tourist attractions, Buck Pal, Downing St etc, etc. Whilst doing the rounds it hit me that this city must be the most historic and action packed city in the world. A little bit expensive at times but none the less, breathtaking. Agree?

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 08:11 AM

Well, it must be fairly high up the list. Pity we seem to be aiming for the most litter-filled as well.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 08:40 AM

Agreed. As an historian, I was very impressed with London. Westminster Abbey is beyond description, but, the litter , well...

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Stu
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 08:58 AM

I've been to London many times (and am going again soon), but last year went to New York for the first time, fulfilling a childhood dream. Had dinner atop the WTC a week before the attack.

NY (specifically Manhattan) has to be the greatest city in the world. It seems to encompass the best and worst that modern man has acheived. Although it doesn't have the historical buildings of London it does have a vision and depth of imagination that is inspiring to say the least. To see midtown lit up with the Empire State in red, white and blue from Windows on the World was one of the greatest moments in my life.

For English cities with history, try York. To me, London represents the British Empire with all its grandiosity and pomp whilst York represents the history of the ordinary people of England , from pre-roman to present day.

Of course, all this is simply my opinion, and you know what they say about those!

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 09:03 AM

What about Rome, Jeruselam, Thebes?

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 09:07 AM

Didn't get chance to go into Westminster Abbey because they were charging £6!!!

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 09:35 AM

why should there be a 'best' city...or song...or cola...or guitarist? 'Best' lists usually end up being simply the 'most famous'

San Francisco, Buenos Aries, Damascus and Paris might be high on any list. They all have unique character and sights.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 09:41 AM

MMario: when you suggested Jerusalem as the most action packed city, you may well be right, but its probably not what Red Eye had in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Peg
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:01 AM

I love London. I have noticed an enomrous increase in litter in recent years however and this is heartbreaking. Have noticed it in smaller towns in England, too.

re: the trash, well it seems to me that every city (and town and village and hamlet) in the world is aiming to fill itself with trash these days...it is a HORRIBLE problem in Boston. Absolutely disgusting. People throw trash everywhere, even when there is a trash can right there...when I go hiking in Franklin Park I usually fill as many carrier bags as I find lying around; one day last week I must have picked up thirty pounds of trash (I found a coiuple of BIG bagsd while I was walking). Frederic law Olmsted must be turning in his grave...or crying.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:11 AM

No, it's Manchester

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:13 AM

I always wanted to settle in the city that had the most for ME.

Grew up in Montreal....lots of atmosphere, but I don't go to strip clubs, and I've lost most of my French.

Spent some time in Amsterdam....love the Galleries, never did much dope.

New York.....simply LOVED it! Couldn't afford it then, couldn't now.

London......loved it. Came very close to moving there in the early seventies....but didn't for some reason.

Toronto. Has a little bit of each of the above.....so I settled here. Guess I was more conservative than I thought.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:27 AM

My favourite city outside the UK is Barcelona. I love the Gaudi architecture, I love wiling away the hours watching people on La Rambla with a cup of xocolata amb churros, I love the tapas bars, I love the sound of the Catalan language.

What is it about your favourite city that makes you love it so much?

Within the UK, I love Newcastle and Glasgow, but we are always biased towards where we grew up and where we went to university.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:29 AM

Have been to London, very impressive, so is Paris, Old Quebec City is quaint, Montreal is very high on my list but I also settled in Toronto, It's not any better than the rest just different. Have never been to New York yet but that will change soon. Dublin, Glasgow, Edinburgh, York and Belfast are not as impressive as some others but have lots going for them. I imagine I will love New York.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 10:33 AM

to be honest *shudder* the word "city" makes me want to avoid a place like the plague. a couple of hours is my max comfort level. Less if I have to drive while in the city.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Micca
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 11:48 AM

I have lived in London for about 40 years,( sadly I may have to move soon due to circumstances beyond my control) and so I am used to it, but I get to "see" it agin through others eyes when visitors (many from here) come to stay and we get to show them around. I will put some pix of Joe Offers visit up when I get 5 mins
I have visited many cities in my time both as a sailor and otherwise , and I have enjoyed and retain happy memories of some of those mentioned above
Toronto...Really nice place, friendly and helpful people, good public transport
Barcelona,.. I too like Catalans and Catalonia, we were guests of a community near Barcelona and therefore had Local guides when we were there!!
Amsterdam. Many visits over 30 years... real nice place, and it has a wonderful street market on the Waterlooplein

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: C-flat
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 12:56 PM

I visit London a couple of times a year and always enjoy what's on offer. It's a great city with an inexhaustable supply of historical sites, museums, galleries, music venues and restaurants.
Having just returned from a holiday in the U.S.A. I was amazed at how good the Americans are when it comes to handling visitors.
For friendliness and good service you can't beat them!
On my return to England I was confronted with the usual abrupt responses from rail staff, unsanitary toilet facilities (which require an entrance fee!) and the, already mentioned, litter.
We have many tremendous assets here in the U.K. that delight many thousands of tourists each year but I think we could learn a trick or two in the way we treat our guests.
A city can only be as great as it's people.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: The Shambles
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:25 PM

As a Londoner, who left as soon as I could. When I go back, I find that it gets more ugly every time. The interesting buildings, with history are being buried by architecture that has no common theme, other than trying to be more ill-pleasing to the eye than the next one.

There are still some fine trees however. I feel very sorry for them.

Las Vegas is the best city. You can see the best bits from everywhere else and as a city it does not take itself seriously. For good very reason..........

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:00 PM

I haven't been there (yet) but it's gotta beat the hell out of Windsor, Ontario!

.-)

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:00 PM

Disagree.
London is the biggest and the best - the biggest pile of ..... and the best place to put it.
biggest city therefore the most entertainment on tap but history? Per square mile I would vote a many other cities
but they don't have the transport infrastructure. Nor the people which is a plus in my eyes. If you only have a week and a family these details are foremost I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:06 PM

Some quite interesting comments appearing here. I like some of the river cities which I know on mainland Europe. Cologne is built on either side of the Rhine, and the city has actually become more attractive over the twenty-four years I have known it. We have fine parks, some lovely buildings and the river of course. On the Danube, I particularly like the provincial cities of Linz and Passau, because they have a very open feel about them. The centre of Prague, (sadly under water at the time of writing) is wonderful, but everything the Communists built there needs demolishing. The centre of Dresden has pretty staggering architecture too. It also gives you plenty more good reasons to hate Communist architecture!I'll be getting over to have a look at New York, Toronto and Montreal just as soon as I get the chance. I find London exciting at times and always interesting and I agree that the buildings are magnificent. However, I'll go along with all the other 'Catters reservations about litter, noise, expense and traffic.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Firecat
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:10 PM

Having just come back from a weekend there I can say it is brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: musicmick
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:14 PM

I have spent many happy days in London. It is a wonderful city for those who like to get to sleep at a decent hour and, thus, have no need for late night facilities and transportation. London is a city that lives by the legaly permissable ours of pub operation. As almost all social activity is connected to booze and smoking, the pub is the civic clubhouse and homelife is, in a social sense, virtually nonexistant. Now, New York City is as dirty and unfriendly and expensive as it is cracked up to be. It lacks the aura of history and tradition that are the birthright of every European city, even the ugly ones. New York's subway system cannot compare to the Underground or the Metro, for cleanliness or safety. But there is no city in the world that offers the electric energy, the cultural rapids, the commercial frenzy like Manhattan, and these things are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And they deliver. Can you believe that? You dont even have to leave your apartment. You can have anything you want. at any time. People will come to where you live and bring you what you need. All it takes is money. When you are in London or Paris or Amsterdam or my beloved Dublin, you can be in places that are havens from the hubbub of the crowds and the noise and the pollution and the crime. But, when you are in NYC, you are a part of everything that is happening. The enormity of the city, the spark, the desparate thrill is felt by the most casual visitor. This aint Kansas, Dorothy, this is the city.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:22 PM

The Great Wen.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: MMario
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:22 PM

well - I'll be getting some reports on London in a few days - as my sister is on her way there right now. (a theatre trip arranged through her daughter's internship)

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Big Mick
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:26 PM

Obviously you folks have never been in Vancouver, BC, or Toronto. Wonderful cities. I love NYC, and I love Boston. San Diego is hard to beat. I guess it depends on what you are considering when you make the determination of what is best. Scenery? History? Music Scene?

The best city is the one where I can sit with friends and listen to great music and tunes being played.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:34 PM

London is great, but for northern Europe, I prefer Paris, Copenhagen, and Galway.

I too think Prague should be high on the list of European cities, as should Milan and (while I love Barcelona) Bilbao.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:24 PM

I've managed to avoid most major cities, but, of the ones I have seen, Edinburgh is my favorite. Why? History, charm, character, safety, friendliness. No wonder it is called the "Athens of the north". American cities Blah.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,Just Amy
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:54 PM

London is my absolute all-time favorite city. I hate Paris and can't understand why anyone thinks it is beautiful. I have traveled a lot and London is still my fav except that they drive on the wrong side of the street.

My favorite places in London include the Victoria & Albert Museum and St. Paul's, where we attend services when we are in London. For a treat take the tube and elevated on the Isle of Dogs to Greenwich Maritime Museum and take the tour boat back to Westminster. Take a trip on the London Eye and see all of London from a bird's eye view. My favorite pub is The Orangery Brewry at the end of Pimlico. The only thing in London I hate is Harrod's. Marks and Sparks (Marks & Spencers) is much nicer.

My favorite city outside London is Plymouth (Devon - southeast coast of England). They have a great Gin distillery there ......but that is another story.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 03:41 AM

Haven't been there since 1974, but back then, London was the centre of the world. Mind you, I'm not sure if I could live there permanently. The climate in Brisbane softens one terribly!

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 05:32 AM

Just in case anybody gets lost looking for it, Plymouth is actually south-west!

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,nobby
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 05:58 AM

I lived in London for three years and it was the PITS. Full of arrogant little upstarts who think they are something special just because they live there.Very unfriendly over priced and over hyped. Everyone is there trying to make a fast buck and sod everyone else.Traffic was and still is a nightmare crime is rife and INCREASING yeah lets all go to London and get ripped off its London so thats OK. If its so good why is it so expensive its not as though you are short of supply or customers No its just an excuse to OVERCHARGE on everything. For gods sake how much does it cost to make a cup of tea or coffee 2or 3 pence yet you are charge an arm and a leg. LONDON IS THE ARSEHOLE OF THE WORLD AND ITS FULL OF LITTLE ARSOLES.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 07:13 AM

There is something about the attitude of many Londoners who have never been west of the docks which puts me off too, but I don't think it's a totally charm free zone. It is expensive because rents, housing etc are expensive too. I used to like Plymouth in the sixties, but I feel that the town planners have lost their way a bit over the past couple of decades. I knew the city because my Dad was in the Royal Navy and I grew up in Cornwall. The new pedestrian zone has improved it a bit. It's main attraction is the magnificent natural harbour. I took my five year old daughter to a fireworks exhibition there one lovely August evening last year and she thought she was in Heaven!

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 07:24 AM

I have been to Bergan in Norway and thought it was lovely but very expensive and I dont like paying nearly £5 for a pint!! I thought New York and Toronto were execellent. I enjoyed Prague immensely. I would very much like to visit Vienna to see the opera!

Cat

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Venthony
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 08:01 AM

The best city in the world is Gilman City, Mo., population 250 on a good night.

There's a decent diner in town, if you get there before 7 p.m., and a store that still sells Coke in glass bottles. If you eat at he diner, I recommend the pork ternderloin basket. The fries are to die for, and they still have ketchup in a bottle, not those silly little foil packs.

As for the action-packed, thrill-a-minute nightlife, well, absolutely NOTHING happens. There is a little tavern there, though. The beer tastes like cold beer on a hot summer night, and they still have Willie Nelson and Charley Rich on the jukebox.

About this time of year, the excitement level moves up a notch, because the stars get really intense in late summer, and after an August thunderstorm, you really CAN hear the corn grow.

Good fiddle players out that way, too.

Tony

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: kendall
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 08:10 AM

Sounds like my home town; Machias Maine. We used to go down to the bus station to see who got off, but, no one ever did. They mostly got on. Hanging out in the drug store watching old folks buy batteries for their hearing aids was a big evening too. Sometimes on Saturday the odd folks would come in from the farms and shop or eat out. I was listening to an old woman who came to the local eatery with her three boys. It was obvious that they were from the shallow end of the gene pool, and, she was telling them how to act. Finally, she said "And don't nobody order the soup de jour, you never know from one day to the next what it's going to be."

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Bassic
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 10:16 AM

I am astonished to find that no one has yet mentioned Hull, which is, as any regular Mudcat reader will know, the centre of the known universe. Not only have we got a hull of a big bridge on our doorstep, the words first submarium, sum interesting smells, a spanish quarter and a word famous curry house, but it seems we also seem to have more Mudcatters per square mile than anywere else in the world and that is the only thing that really counts after all is said and done.

Mind you all of Hull is on holiday in Whitby this week so I dont know what that means!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Fortunato
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 11:46 AM

Now don't throw anything at me for this. But my answer differs a bit.

London is an 8 out of 10 for me, and that's high.

San Francisco is also.

San Diego is a 7.

New York is about a 6.

But Washington, DC is a 9.

I'd have to show you, but here are few things:

the Potomac river gorge at Great Falls is as wild as anything I've seen. There is damn little ethnic food or music that you can't find here. The museums and galleries rival the best and you can park or metro to them easily and THEY'RE FREE! The ticket out of town is steep for musicans here, consequently they are of a consistently higher calibre that elsewhere except NY. Now that's just a quick review.

I want to get up to Toronto sometime.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: DougR
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 02:11 PM

Rick: "Conservative?" Perish the thought.

I think Toronto is a beautiful city and prefer it to NYC. I do like Washington, D. C. if I can throw Georgetown in to the mix. San Francisco is one of the most beautiful cities I have been to, but too expensive. And I surely must like Phoenix, Arizona, as I have lived here over forty years.

I haven't had the pleasure of visiting Gilman City, MO, but it sure sounds like a nice place to live.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 05:19 PM

Are we talking best city to visit, or best city to live?

If it is the latter, London would drop off my list completely. If the former, it would probably be in my top 15.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 06:02 PM

Paris, hands down. My wife and I went to Paris and London on our honeymoon. Paris has a beautiful building every twenty feet, as does London. You just don't have to look around twenty double decker tourist busses to see it. Paris is very walker friendly and the streets weren't nearly as packed as they were in London. Walking in the sections of London we went in was like walking on 42nd Street in New York City... spend most of your time trying not to get run over.

But really, my favorite city is Derby, Connecticut. The fact that it's where I live has absolutely nothing to do with it. :-) How can you not love Derby? There isn't a McDonald's in Derby. Know one other city without a McDonald's? And I challenge you, what City has Polish Saturday School? where you can learn to speak Polish, whether you're six or seventy. What an invaluable language, internationally recognized as the premier romance language. :-) What other City has a farm in the City limits with the greatest ice cream, and the largest rooster I've ever seen who comes to greet you when you get out of your car. I love the sophistication of living in a City. I used to be a country boy, but I've seen the light. We've got almost 11,000 people here, and we're five whole miles long and a mile wide. We're the smallest City in Connecticut. Women can go for a walk late at night and feel comfortable (and not get accused of soliciting.)

Big City life! I love it! :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 06:11 PM

Big Mick
Toronto? Not been? Still too big for me but plenty going on. I got relatives there and that is the attraction for me. Have to say 3 weeks was a good number but 3 months holiday was not 4 times the enjoyment.
London doesn't have a rush hour it is rush day (or week as one wag put it). I know people who worked there and hated every minute commuting from where they could afford to live.
but when you are on holiday the world is so much more fun.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,Just Amy
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 07:06 PM

Trevor, thanks. Plymouth is southwest. Do you know I was looking at the map when I typed that and I still got it wrong. I must be direction challenged.

By the way, San Francisco is great if you are a tourist but lousy if you live there. Also, I never saw a beautiful building in Paris. The buildings are all gray stone and the Arch de Triomphe looks just like all the other arches all over Europe. I just don't get the Eifel Tower. Ugly!

Oh, I do like Quebec, Canada. It is very interesting and pretty in places.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: John O'L
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 02:46 AM

Stayed in London for a couple of years but never wanted to live there permanently, although I've got no complaints. It's very pleasant and easy as cities go.
The only city that really made me want to live there was Glasgow, but I couldn't afford it so I came back to Australia, and now I'm glad I did. Not because I've changed my ideas about Glasgow, I've been back since and I love it and its people, I just like Australia better now than I did back then.

Glenn

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: JohnnyBGoode
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 03:06 AM

Savannah, Georgia has struck me more than any other city I've been in. Something mysterious, surprising, and unexpected about the place.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Firecat
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 04:48 PM

I agree with Cat that Prague is beautiful. It actually scared me when I saw about the floods there on the news. The bridge they showed I had actually crossed when I was there and it had loads of street traders.

Krakow in Poland is beautiful as well. I think people who remember the thread "The New Adventures of Firecat" from April will remember what I thought of it when I was there.

Berlin wasn't too bad either, but I would LOVE to go back to Moscow and St. Petersburg. Those two places, Novgorod and the Russian countryside were where I spent the best fortnight of my life so far (25th March to 4th April 1998, if you're interested).

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,Just Amy
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 05:49 PM

Now, just suppose I was going to England in say January or May 2003. I have to see cousins in Devon and Worchester but I was planning on spending some time in London. Where are some good places to see traditional music in London?

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 06:43 PM

Yes

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 06:43 PM

The more appropriate question would've been: "London ;Best City *Musically*?"

Being excruciatingly biased I have to include in my list of criteria to evaluate *any* city the quality and dynamism of the *music* that city's character/nature/spirit produces.

One will find no more enthusiastic advocate of the UK's contribution to innovative hybrids of music than me ; with special due repsect for the vast amount of virtuosity of musicianship of the highest calibre that grew hand-in-glove out of the blending of their more pervasive training in Classical ( Euro-orchestral, etc.) music incorporating a dozen centuries of "folk" tunes alloyed with their "dicsovery" of , and devotion to, Classical American Blues and/or Jazz..........

BUT.......Thanks to the late 70's tsunami of the Clash/SexPistols ( Yep, UK, sorry but ya gotta take yer tongue lashin' on your virulant contribution of "New Wave" trash as much as us Yanks have to hang our heads in shame for the Left coast plague of L.A. "Hair Bands" from Motley Crue to Guns N' Roses ). Being an ex-New Yorker I can still say that the thought of CBGB's still gives me the HeeBee GeeBees.

All that said begs the question of our UK brethen/sisteren: Any chance that London's "culture market" is at all generating any new glimmers of a generation of *talent* that has enhanced their rich *musical* history and , per chance , producing the next generation of virtuoso performers/musicians/song writers for the 21st century?

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: lady penelope
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 06:17 AM

I don't think there can be a "best" city. What makes any place to live ( or visit ) the"best" is what you get out of it and different people look for different things.

I am not well travelled but I have had a lot of people from many different places in the world stay with me. It's always interesting to see their reactions to London. Their preconceptions ( be they negative or positive ) always influence their initial response.

Some people turn up thinking London is all Buckingham palace and Tower bridge and that it's going to be boring. They then discover something which interests them, be it shopping, music, sports, wildlife and they think maybe London isn't so bad.

Other people turn up thinking London is a wonderful place full of their favourite delights and they'll never want to go home again. Then they find it's not quite as they pictured it and they can't wait to get away.

London seems to be at it's best when people turn up with an open mind and the attitude of "show me". I would hope that I would have this attitude should I go to any other place to visit. How can you appreciate a place if you have already decided how it's going to be?

And as for Taliesn's opinion of music in London, I'm quite shocked. We have a wealth of music in an abundance of styles ( even if you disregard that terrible "trash" called rock ) everything from folk to all sorts of 'contemporary' to classical and most of it within the grasp of the 'average joe' with not a lot to spend. It's one of the main reasons I would be loath to leave London. And to say that amongst all this there is no chance of extraordinary talent to emerge is indeed "excruciatingly biased".

I think all you can really say is which city you've enjoyed the most.

TTFn M'Lady P.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 06:32 AM

I agree - and I think that is what most Mudcatters have been doing here.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 09:36 AM

Lady P (quote) "And as for Taliesn's opinion of music in London, I'm quite shocked. We have a wealth of music in an abundance of styles ( even if you disregard that terrible "trash" called rock ) everything from folk to all sorts of 'contemporary' to classical "

My word but you've over-reacted while completely disregarding what I actually wrote in plain black & white. (quote)

"One will find no more enthusiastic advocate of the UK's contribution to innovative hybrids of music than me ; with special due repsect for the vast amount of virtuosity of musicianship of the highest calibre that grew hand-in-glove out of the blending of their more pervasive training in Classical ( Euro-orchestral, etc.) music incorporating a dozen centuries of "folk" tunes alloyed with their "dicsovery" of , and devotion to, Classical American Blues and/or Jazz.......... "

Apparently you shock too easy because this very deliberately worded preface is enthusiastic praise by *anyone's* interpretation. Sorry if I popped yer cork by also mentioning London's lead in contributing to the world it's wave of degenerate Punk and New Wave trash ,but that public record is clear enough. I mention that as reason enough to voice my lament over the continuing downward trend in lack of craftsmanship in music that has finally degenerated into Rap/Thrash/& now Techno ( the techno group "Future Sounds of London" springs to mind ).

Lady P (quote) And to say that amongst all this there is no chance of extraordinary talent to emerge is indeed "excruciatingly biased".

Might I reinforce that ,already laid out in my original post , is ,thus , my looking to the "culture market" that is London for some reports of rays of hope that the rich musical culture of the UK *is* producing : (quote) "virtuoso performers/musicians/song writers for the 21st century? "

Lady P. If I didn't believe the UK's rich culture , as filtered the likes of London, would be a robust source I would *not* have sent out this call to the UK members here. Heck I'm *counting* on it. Your reaction is off the map. I'd apologize for ruffling yer feathers , Lady P, but your shock was more the result of a misreading, than actual content , of my post. T'was never the intent ,M'lady

Still looking forward to a response with happy news of some actual *names* of a new generation of ""virtuoso performers/musicians/song writers for the 21st century? " emergent in London's collective cultural ear.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: lady penelope
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 03:40 PM

Sorry Taleisn, having read your answer and then having gone back and re-read your original post, I've found that I did indeed jump to the wrong conclusion as I misconstrude your use of punctuation.

TTFN M'Lady P.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: beachcomber
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 05:51 PM

"Upon Westminister Bridge"

"Earth has not anything to show more fair,"

wasn't that written about that wonderful city? "Dull would he be of soul...etc., etc." I lived in London during the 1960s and I have to say that, then at any rate, it was a cornucopia of Art, Museums,Theatre, Film, Literature, Pubs, Clubs, Ballrooms, Athletic meets, Criket, Rugby, Festivals, Exhibitions, Concerts, Pageants (If I leave out anything stop me here) and, for me, principally, All kinds of Musical performance as well as participation and, Oh yes, Association Football with the great 'Spurs. I hadn't heard that any of those events(with the notable exception of Tottenham's successes ) had died out since then. I know that many other cities have all those delights too , to a greater or lesser degree, but, which has so good and convenient a public transport system to make them so readily available to all? Tell me mudcatters, please. Does "Speaker's Corner" still flourish, at Marble Arch on Sunday mornings? Can the click of leather on willow yet be heard in the leafy fastness of Holland Park on a summer's evening ? Ch...t, has it really been that long!?

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 06:36 PM

Somebody back up the thread asked about traditional music in London, to which nobody seems to have responded. The place to look is of course Martin Nail's excellent site.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 07:13 PM

London ? I lived there, I worked there, I commuted from Whitstable.

Perfect place to test nuclear weapons.

Gareth (Safely home in the Valleys )

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Aug 02 - 07:18 AM

I lived in London right through the 60s, a great city, historic yes , but stank of empire, and then there was Rome top of my list, incredible, beauty at every turn, sorry London. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Bassic
Date: 25 Aug 02 - 07:26 AM

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 25 Aug 02 - 08:53 AM

Doesn't Rome stink of empire?

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 02 - 09:55 AM

New York and Washington DC also stink of the arrogance of empire. Which is why I visit them, but could never live in them. There is "that attitude" you always have to deal with, isn't there?

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Aug 02 - 04:07 PM

Yes Hrothgar, but 2000 years ago, dont you think the smell has long since vanished. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Venthony
Date: 26 Aug 02 - 01:46 AM

There's no such thing as a "good" or "best" city. People aren't meant to live that way.

The music I love didn't come from cities. It came from people living on their own wide land and achieving their own wide dreams.

Carl Perkins, peradventure, is rock n roll. John Lennon is the cheap, urban imitation.

Tony

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Aug 02 - 01:33 AM

(quote) "There's no such thing as a "good" or "best" city. People aren't meant to live that way. "

I understand this "philosophical persuasion" , BUT , in reality , this really is just so much bushwah. You can *not* have *civilization* without *cities*. There are such things as poorly expanded cities that have overgrown their their nature ,but cities *are* as natural an expression of the human spirit ( and ALL the good and bad that goes with it ) as is our predelection for the making of tools. Gotta give that *opposinbg thumb* that the good Lord gave us its due after all. , because one essential outgrowth of that tool-making habit was the evolution of * muscial instrument* making. And just like cities were the outgrowth of the first communal temples of worship , then gov'ts, then marketplaces so too out of the first gatherings of musicians we have probsably one of the singularly most unique contribution of the European culture, right alongside the magnificient work of the Cathedrals ; namely the *symphony orchestra* and the works of art they were created to perform. I am loathe to imagine a world without that music either and you would *not* have had their creation *without* cities. Besides everyone rom Beethoven to Copland *enobled* "folk music" melodiesg them into their works. I can not conceive of my artistic life today without the regular inspiration of Arron Copland's *Appalchian Spring* whose fullness of beauty is *not* possible without an orchestra.

And ,yes, at one time ,this was *once* the exclusive the *instrument* of the wealthy , but with the advent of the people's *radio* ,then records ,the TV concerts, then CD's ,this *exclusivity* is no longer the case than is the Soviet Union. Too turn one's strictly folk-exclusive nose up in the air at classical music and the *cities that produced them is *as* arrogant and as *elitist* as the so-called pointy-heady intellectuals are. A tower doesn't have to made of "ivory" to be a temple to snobbery.

(quote) "The music I love didn't come from cities. It came from people living on their own wide land and achieving their own wide dreams. "

I understand this sentiment as well , but ,truth be told , the common folk are not always such a great bargain either. Simple folk can be just as arrogant and prudjudice and cruel and back-biting as city folk. Ask Moses about them 40 years of leading a tribe of *simple folk*. One can speculate that he had had *enough* of that blessing and was only too glad to go when the good Lord mercifully called him home.

Cities are just human-nature concentration tools. A too often overlooked American philosopher/author who *knows* about the full spectrum of what a living entity a city is Lewis Mumford and well worth atleast an amazon.com search if just to read the reviews of his works still in print .

Just giving another side of the argument that deserved its advocacy.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:20 AM

Here's an interesting view of London, from out in Space.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Gareth
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:34 PM

What I find frightening is the way that Road from Hell, the M25 stands out.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:04 PM

That picture from space really does make London look like like "The Great Wen", as William Cobbett used to call London.

Used to be a great city, maybe it will be again, but right now it's still a heartbreaking mess. They always say London is a mass of urban villages, and that's true enough, and there are some of those that are ok. But as a city, I don't think it works these days. It's had the heart knocked out of it these last thirty years.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: GUEST,CorBlimeyGuvnor
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:20 PM

I'm a Londoner, so I like London. I cannot view it objectively. However, it has become more lively in the past 10 years. Bars ar staying open later. Everything doesnt stop dead on 11:30 like it use to at one time. All we need to do is to get rid of our revolting mayor. However, for sheer beauty, I prefer Paris. Budapest is nice, as are the Hungarian people.

Subject: RE: BS: London, best City in the world?
From: Penny S.
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 06:35 PM

What do you mean Gareth, the road from Hell? - It doesn't go anywhere - it doesn't come from anywhere - it just is.....


Penny