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Origins:A-Rovin/Maid from Amsterdam/Amsterdam Maid

DigiTrad:
A-ROVIN' (1)
A-ROVIN' (2)
GENTLY JOHNNY MY JINGALO


Related thread:
Lyr Req: I put me hands upon her calves (28)


AndreasW 19 May 98 - 03:09 AM
Wolfgang Hell 19 May 98 - 05:10 AM
AndreasW 19 May 98 - 05:21 AM
Bert 19 May 98 - 10:23 AM
Barry Finn 19 May 98 - 03:24 PM
Bruce O. 19 May 98 - 10:23 PM
BK 20 May 98 - 12:29 AM
Bruce O. 20 May 98 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,IanC (at British Library) 08 Aug 03 - 09:15 AM
GUEST,IanC (in British Library) 08 Aug 03 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,Q 08 Aug 03 - 01:30 PM
GUEST,Lighter 08 Aug 03 - 02:32 PM
GUEST,Jerry 08 Aug 03 - 03:10 PM
greg stephens 08 Aug 03 - 03:13 PM
GUEST,Jerry 08 Aug 03 - 04:45 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 09 Aug 03 - 11:23 AM
GUEST 09 Aug 03 - 12:50 PM
GUEST,Anne Croucher 09 Aug 03 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,Q 09 Aug 03 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,LIGHTER 12 Aug 03 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 12 Aug 03 - 04:19 PM
GUEST,Lighter 12 Aug 03 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Brian N. 07 Jan 06 - 12:18 PM
Charley Noble 08 Jan 06 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,Brian N. 08 Jan 06 - 10:57 PM
GUEST,Brian N. 09 Jan 06 - 01:22 AM
GUEST,Lighter 09 Jan 06 - 09:55 PM
GUEST,Brian 10 Jan 06 - 07:51 PM
IanC 11 Jan 06 - 06:15 AM
Flash Company 11 Jan 06 - 10:33 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Jun 07 - 01:49 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 10 Jun 07 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,PMB 11 Jun 07 - 05:47 AM
shipcmo 12 Apr 10 - 04:16 PM
Snuffy 12 Apr 10 - 07:33 PM
EBarnacle 13 Apr 10 - 09:54 AM
EBarnacle 13 Apr 10 - 09:57 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Apr 10 - 04:41 PM
Lighter 13 Apr 10 - 04:49 PM
Charley Noble 13 Apr 10 - 08:06 PM
GUEST 02 Feb 11 - 01:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Feb 11 - 02:23 PM
Gibb Sahib 02 Feb 11 - 03:38 PM
GUEST,SteveG 02 Feb 11 - 05:42 PM
Lighter 03 Feb 11 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,Bobby T. 16 Aug 14 - 07:14 AM
Lighter 16 Aug 14 - 08:56 AM
Joe Offer 15 Feb 17 - 03:11 AM
Joe Offer 15 Feb 17 - 03:14 AM
Joe Offer 15 Feb 17 - 03:17 AM
Joe Offer 15 Feb 17 - 04:37 AM
doc.tom 15 Feb 17 - 05:40 AM
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Subject: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: AndreasW
Date: 19 May 98 - 03:09 AM

Hi, fellow mudcateers,

I need help with the lyrics of a song called "The Maid from Amsterdam".
I am looking for one line which I can't understand from listening to the recording. (English is "only" my second language)
The recording is by a group called "Kings Galliard", on the CD called "Rocky Road to Dublin"
There are two versions of this song in the database under the title of "A-Rovin" but both didn't help me as they are only similar.
I am looking for the exact word(s) in the recording mentioned above.
I marked the place where I don't know the word(s) with 3 question marks.
Should I have made some errors elsewhere please give me a hint, too.
Now the text as I hear/understand it:

The Maid from Amsterdam (aka A-Rovin')

In Amsterdam there lived a maid,
mark well what I do say,
In Amsterdam there lived a maid,
and she was Mistress of her trade,

Chorus [after each verse]
I go no more a-roving with you, fair maid.
A-roving, a-roving,
since roving's been my ru-i-in
I go no more a-roving with you, fair maid.

I kissed her once, I kissed her twice,
mark well what I do say,
I kissed her once, I kissed her twice,
said she your men you're all so nice

I put my hand upon her knee,
mark well what I do say,
I put my hand upon her knee,
said she you men are fancy-free,

I put my arms around her waist,
mark well what I do say,
I put my arms around her waist,
said she don't man, you're ???

[repeat first verse]

Thanks for any help,
Andreas


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 19 May 98 - 05:10 AM

Andreas, enter "maid Amsterdam" in the search window (upper right) and you´ll get one song called A Rovin´ which seems to be the same song. In that song the line is:
"...you´re in great haste"

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: AndreasW
Date: 19 May 98 - 05:21 AM

Thanks Wolfgang, I had found that song in the database but I must have missed the one line I was looking for as there are so many lines that are different (I did the search some days ago after a long working day...).
Now after getting your hint I listened to the song again and "you're in great haste" could indeed match what I hear. Thanks again, Andreas


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Bert
Date: 19 May 98 - 10:23 AM

When I learned a sanitized version of that in school, yonks ago, it was "Plymouth Town". I wonder which version was earliest.
Bert.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 May 98 - 03:24 PM

Sometimes it has an extra refrain, example:

In Amsterdam there lived a maid
Chorus: Bless you young woman
In Amsterdam there live a maid
Chorus: Mark well what I do say
In Amsterdam there lived a maid & she was mistress of her trade

    Chorus:I'll(we'll)go no more a-rovin with you fair(false) maid
    Grand Chorus: A-rovin, a-rovin,a-rovin's been my ruin
    I'll (we'll) go no more a-rovin with you fair maid.

Shay say it may have started off it's life back in 1640, in "The Rape Of Lucrece", Hugill doesn't believe this & Doerflinger does't say, but they all agree that's it very old. Most of the song has been prettied up of it's fowl language,to make it printable, so what you see now is probly not what it once was. Barry


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Bruce O.
Date: 19 May 98 - 10:23 PM

The original version has been taken to be "Watton Town's End", with is with tune on my website. There is no version of this or any song like it in Thomas Heywood's 'The Rape Lucrece'. All the songs are in the 1638 edition, and over half of them were in the original 1608 edition, and there are a few bawdy ones, but nothing like the "Maid of Amsterdam".


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: BK
Date: 20 May 98 - 12:29 AM

Interesting; I partly learned this - sl different version - from an old reference book which clearly & unequivocally attributed it to "The Rape of Lucrecia." Now, what am I to think??

Cheers, BK


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Bruce O.
Date: 20 May 98 - 09:42 AM

What is the opening line of the song that your ref. book says is in 'The Rape of Lucrece'?


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,IanC (at British Library)
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 09:15 AM

This is in response to BruceO's two posts above.

I've had this on my list for a while, but I've only just had the chance to consult a copy of the original printing of Heywood's play (1608) in the British Library.

Though it's possible to claim that the song isn't in the play, I don't think it's reasonable to claim that there isn't one which is similar. On pages G5 and H (towards the end) of the original is the following trio between Valerius, Horatius and The Clown which, given the subject matter, has to be said to be in rather poor taste.

Vale. Did he take fair Lucrece by the toe man?
Clow. Toe man.
Vale. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha, ha man.
Hor. And further did he strive to goe man?
Clow. Goe man.
Hor. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha man,
ha fa derry derry downe a,
hey fa derry dino.

Vale. Did he take fair Lucrece by the heel man?
Clow. Heel man.
Vale. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha, ha man.
Hor. And did he further strive to feel man?
Clow. Feel man.
Hor. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha man,
ha fa derry derry downe a,
hey fa derry dino.

Vale. Did he take the Lady by the shin man?
Clow. Shin man.
Vale. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha, ha man.
Hor. Further he too would have bin man?
Clow. Bin man.
Hor. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha man,
ha fa derry derry downe a,
hey fa derry dino.

Vale. Did he take the Lady by the knee man?
Clow. Knee man.
Vale. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha, ha man.
Hor. Further then that would he be man?
Clow. Bee man.
Hor. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha man,
ha fa derry derry downe a,
hey fa derry dino.

Vale. Did he take the Lady by the thigh man?
Clow. Thigh man.
Vale. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha, ha man.
Hor. And now he cme it somewhat nye man?
Clow. Nye man.
Hor. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha man,
ha fa derry derry downe a,
hey fa derry dino.

Vale. But did he do the tother thing man?
Clow. Thing man?
Vale. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha, ha man.
Hor. And at the same had he a fling man?
Clow. Fling man.
Hor. I man.
Clow. Ha, ha, ha man,
ha fa derry derry downe a,
hey fa derry dino.


The correspondence between the songs was originally pointed out by John Masefield (1906) in This Article (well worth the read!) though he got the name of the play wrong, probably because of the full name of the play "The Rape of Lucrece a Roman Tragedie with the severall songes in their apt places, by Valerius, the merry lord amongst the Roman Peeres".

:-)


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Subject: Lyr Add: Song from "Rape of Lucrece"
From: GUEST,IanC (in British Library)
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 10:26 AM

Sorry - 2 things I got wrong. 1st this is a LyrAdd. 2nd the book is Octavo, so the pages should be numbered G4V and HR respectively.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE AMSTERDAM MAID
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 01:30 PM

Lyr. Add: THE AMSTERDAM MAID

In Louisville I met a maid,
Mark well what I do say,
An' she was mistress of her trade,
It was diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my hand upon her toe,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, Young man, you're rather low,
For to diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my finger on her knee,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, Young man, you're rather free,
For its diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my arm around her waist,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, Young man, you're in great haste,
For to diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my hand upon her thigh,
Mark well what I do say,
She says You're getting pretty nigh,
To my diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my hand upon her ass,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, Let's lay down on the grass,
An' diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

From MO, 1933, "learned it about 1890," southwest Missouri. From Randolph-Legman, 1992, "Roll Me in Your Arms," # 20, pp. 124-125. Sheet music provided, not the usual tune.

More explicit versions in Ed Cray, "The Erotic Muse." He also reproduces a verse from Purslow, "The Wanton Seed," which may indicate that the son had a long life on shore as well:

As I was going over the fields,
Mark you well what I do say.
As I was going over the fields,
A fair pretty lass came close to my heels
Which caused me to go a-screwing,
Which brought me to my ruin,
Which caused me to go a-screwing
All under the new mown hay.

Watton Town End, mentioned above by Bruce O, is in the DT.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 02:32 PM

I believe "Bruce O" has inadvertently confused this song with the one Hugill calls "Ratcliff Highway," which has been regarded as a descendant of "Watton Towns End." The resemblance seems to me to be rather superficial.

A possible missing link may be a song called "The Frigate Well-Mann'd," supposed to be in a chapbook called "Lovely Peggy's Garland" at the British Library, catalogued T.C.6.a.8 (44). Sea song aficionados would be grateful if any 'Cat at said Library could look it up and post the lyrics, or report if they are unfindable. I'm trying to trace the development of these songs.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 03:10 PM

I don't know Mudcat's norms about bawdy postings. I learned several uncensored verses to Maid of Amsterdam directly from Stan Hugill back in 1989 or so. I'm willing to share them but I'm unsure about what's appropriate language for The Forum. Advice?

P.S. I think I know what the answer will be...

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 03:13 PM

Post them. Rude songs are perfectly standard on Mudcat.


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Subject: Lyr Add: MAID OF AMSTERDAM
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 08 Aug 03 - 04:45 PM

OK, twist my arm.

Stan sang these verses during the infamous Uncensored Sea Songs workshop at the Mystic Seaport Sea Music Festival in '88 or '89. I had the luck to share the stage with him, along with a couple of other unwitting folks who, like me, thought that "uncensored" meant ribald, double-entendre material.

Stan talked a bit to introduce things, but then Tom Lewis, who was in the audience, asked to share a song from his Royal Navy days. He stepped forward and proceeded to sing two of the most graphic and obscene songs I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. That set the tone, and must have induced Stan to open up his treasure box of "the real versions" of chanteys.

Here's his take on MAID OF AMSTERDAM:

In Amsterdam there lived a maid
Mark well what I do say!
In Amsterdam there lived a maid
And she was mistress of her trade.
I'll go no more a rovin'...

I took this fair maid to the park
Mark well...
And we set down where it was dark.

I put my hand upon her breast...
And the wind from her ass blew south southwest.

The flesh of her breast was as white as milk...
And the hair of her cunt was soft as silk.

The cheeks of her ass were tight as a drum...
And the lips of her cunt were red as a plum.

Her belly it was soft and wide...
And it gave me such a lovely ride.


I have always hoped his wife or sons would publish the collection of unbowdlerized chanteys he hinted he had in his files. No sign of it yet, unfortunately.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 11:23 AM

I goofed. "Watton Town's End" supplies the prostitute whose trade
is with sailors to whom she gives a case of the pox, but that's
only a sparce frame to hang the anatomical progression on.



For more versions of the anatomical progression see also
"Pillycock" in 'Pills to Purge Melancholy', IV, p. 311, 1719, and
"Gently Johnny, my Jingalo" in the DT.


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Subject: Lyr Add: GENTLY JOHNNY MY JINGALO
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 12:50 PM

The version of "Gently Johnny my Jingalo" in the DT has been
rewritten. Here is the version that Cecil Sharp actually collected
(from William Tucker in 1907).

GENTLY JOHNNY MY JINGALO


I put my hand all on her toe
Fair maid is a lily O
I put my hand all on her toe
She says to me do you want to go?

CHORUS: Come to me quietly
Do not do no injury
Gently Johnny my jingalo.

I put my hand all on her knee
She says to me do you want to see?

I put my hand all on her thigh
She says to me do you want to try?

I put my hand all on her billy
She says to me do you want to fill'ee?

I put my hand all on her breast
She says to me do you want a kiss?

I put my hand all on her head
She says you want my maidenhead.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 01:11 PM

Also

I took this fair maid for a walk
Mark well what I do say
I took this fair maid for a walk
Says she 'young man I'd rather talk'

The last line of the first lot verses I know are all 'says she 'young man....

and are all generally off putting, then the last two verses are

When I had to go to sea
Mark well ....
When I had to go to sea
That girl said she'd be true to me

When I got back home from sea
Mark well...
When I got back home from sea
A soldier had her on his knee

Anne


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Subject: Lyr Add: THERE WERE THREE BIRDS
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Aug 03 - 01:45 PM

Lyr. Add: THERE WERE THREE BIRDS
(Three Birds 2)

There were three birds that built very low,
The first and the second cry'd, "Have at her toe."
The third he went merrily in and in, in,

Refrain (add to each verse)
Oh, never went wimble in timber more nimble
With so little screwing and knocking on't in,
With so little knocking in.

There were three birds that built on a pin.
The first and the second cry'd, "Have at her shin."
The third he went merrily in and in, in.

There were three birds that built on a tree.
The first and the second cry'd, "Have at her knee,"
And the third he went merrily in and in, in.

There were three birds that built very high.
The first and the second cry'd, "Have at her thigh."
The third he went merrily in and in, in.

There were three birds that built on a stump.
The first and the second cry'd, "Have at her rump."
The third he went merrily in and in, in.

1661 edition of "Merry Drollery," printed and discussed in Ed Cray, "The Erotic Muse," 2nd. ed., 1992, p. 319-320.
Birds = men, wimble = auger.
Cray says that this seems to be the earliest known of these progression songs. The McCurdy version in the DT is shortened and somewhat revised. Also see thread 26717 for comment. Bruce O on McCurdy


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,LIGHTER
Date: 12 Aug 03 - 02:21 PM

Hi, Bruce O and Q ! The songs you mention are most apposite. A similar progression features in Planxty's song "Cumhla." I believe this is a translation from Irish; if so, they may well have altered it somewhat. Haven't heard the song in years, further info would be welcome. (Besides being catchy and well performed, the song is notable because, unlike the examples here, it's expressed from the bemused lady's POV - as I recall !

Hi to Jerry as well ! I too was at Mystic that day, but didn't catch the stanza about "a lovely ride."

Anyway, one year later we came back for more. Stan was there in great form, but he declined to perform any more "uncensored" sea songs on a public stage. He confessed the performance context had made him uncomfortable : "In the old days, a bunch of sailors might be singing those songs in some sailortown pub, but if a decent woman walked in, they'd immediately shut up."

I agree the uncensored shanties should be published for the cultural record.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 12 Aug 03 - 04:19 PM

After copying out "Pillycock" from 'Pills to Purge Melancholy', I find it's already in DT.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 12 Aug 03 - 04:32 PM

"Pillycock" lyrics are close kin to aforesaid "Cumhla." Planxty version begins something like, "Who is that there now ticklin' the toes of me?" with each stanza progressing further. It's not in Digitrad.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Brian N.
Date: 07 Jan 06 - 12:18 PM

I was wondering about a possible link between this song (A-Rovin') and the Jolly Begger(man) as in the Child Ballad... I see alot of resemblance.


The Jolly Beggar

It's of a jolly beggarman came tripping o'er the plain
He came unto a farmer's door a lodging for to gain
The farmer's daughter she came down and viewed him cheek and chin
She says, He is a handsome man. I pray you take him in

    We'll go no more a roving, a roving in the night
    We'll go no more a roving, let the moon shine so bright
    We'll go no more a roving

He would not lie within the barn nor yet within the byre
But he would in the corner lie down by the kitchen fire
o then the beggar's bed was made of good clean sheets and hay
And down beside the kitchen fire the jolly beggar lay

The farmer's daughter she got up to bolt the kitchen door
And there she saw the beggar standing naked on the floor
He took the daughter in his arms and to the bed he ran
Kind sir, she says, be easy now, you'll waken our goodman

Now you are no beggar, you are some gentleman
For you have stolen my maidenhead and I am quite undone
I am no lord, I am no squire, of beggars I be one
And beggars they be robbers all, so you re quite undone


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 12:03 PM

Brian-

The chorus does have a resemblance but there are a lot of songs that may have been mixed into the stew to come of with Maid of Amersterdam.

The tunes also do not correlate.

Now Jerry's verses from Stan Hugill do open some new territory.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Brian N.
Date: 08 Jan 06 - 10:57 PM

Thanks for the response,

I guess what I am trying to figure out is when did the song originate? and what were the original lyrics? Is it Elizabethan or is that a "myth".

The Rape Of Lucrece I would agree with what Hugill writes in Song Of The Sea (1977): "The verses describing the progress of the seduction have a faint resemblance to those in a song [Rape Of Lucrece].... but this is a common technique in folksong and no measure of age"

Originally it seems Stan thought it possible to be Elizabethan when he wrote in Shanties Of The Seven Seas, 1961, that is was of: "fair antiquity...Some say the tune of A-rovin' is Elizabethan; this may be quite true"

He changes his mind by 1977, in Songs Of The Sea, he writes: "Certain authorities, in the past, have claimed this shanty to be of Elizabethan origin, but I diagree entirely..."

Is it possbile that A-Rovin' and Maid Of Amsterdam were at one time different songs and then combined?? EG.. Johnny My Jingalo which bears a closer resemblance to the Rape Of Lucrece and many of the landmen songs such as The Jolly Begger(man) -- thus placing the song more of 18th C.

Personally I think something of the Rape Of Lucrece as a source... Since so much was passed by word of mouth, I find it difficult to beleive there is no truth in what Captain W.B. Whall, and Masefield write of the origins --- certainly this ia a rumour which must have circulated at sea for some time.

Does anyone have more insight as to the 16th C. origins???

Thanks,
Brian


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Brian N.
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 01:22 AM

Oh, should also mention that all the songs from Heywood's, Rape of Lucrece is available online in the Restoration Theatre Song Archive:

http://www.arts.monash.edu.au/english/research/Archive/codespages/code16.htm

There is one DUTCH song listed for Rape Of Lucrece,
O Mork giff men ein man

but doesn't seem to fit --- some really good songs in the play though!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 09 Jan 06 - 09:55 PM

As IanC observed earlier in this thread, John Masefield was almost certainly the first writer to connect "A-Roving" with Heywood's song. Later collectors seem to have taken this statement on faith; there's just no likelihood that the resemblance was passed on by word of mouth at sea ("Arrrrrgh! Know ye that 'A-Rovin'' comes from a seventeenth-century play by Thomas Heywood called 'The Rape of Lucrece'?" : Sorry, this just doesn't work for me !).

Hugill printed the Heywood song in "Shanties and Sailor Songs" in 1969.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 10 Jan 06 - 07:51 PM

Thanks for that insight. I misunderstood, I thought Masefield had "heard" that it came from Rape Of Lucrece, as in he stumbled upon some rumour or had read it somewhere else... and was just one of many who claimed it came from the play. I didn't realize he is the one who originated the statement in 1905.

I was thinking the rumour more likely to be that the song came from some old play -- and a few decided to research this...like Whall, Wood, Masefield etc.. to narrow the roots.

I am just curious how Masefield was able to pinpoint Rape Of Lucrece as a source, or did he just read through a bunch of plays until he found one that had a seduction sequence that seemed to have some antiquity. Curious?

Thanks,
Brian


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: IanC
Date: 11 Jan 06 - 06:15 AM

Brian

John Masefield was educated.

;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Flash Company
Date: 11 Jan 06 - 10:33 AM

Frank O'Reilly with the Union Folk used a verse after 'I put my hand upon her thigh' as follows

And why did I no further go, mark well what I do say,
Why did I no further go,
Because her leg was cork, you know
I'll go no more a roving with you fair maid.

FC


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:49 PM

Lyr. Add: A-ROVING
Davis and Tozer, 1887

1.
Solo
In Amsterdam there lives a maid,
Mark you well what I say!
In Amsterdam there lives a maid,
And she is mistress of her trade,
I'll go no more a-roving from you, fair maid.
Chorus
A-roving, a-roving,
Since roving's been my ruin,
I'll go no more a-roving
From you fair maid.
2.
Solo
Her eyes are like two stars so bright,
Mark you well what I say!
Her eyes are like two stars so bright,
Her face is fair, her step is light;
I'll go no more a roving from you, fair maid.
Chorus
A-roving, a-roving,
Since roving's been my ruin,
I'll go no more a-roving
From you, fair maid.
3.
Solo
Her cheeks are like the rosebuds', red,
Mark you well what I say!
Her cheeks are like the rosebuds', red,
There's a wealth of hair upon her head;
I'll go no more a-roving from you, fair maid.
4.
Solo
I often take her for a walk,
Mark you well what I say!
I often take her for a walk,
And love to hear her merry talk;
I'll go no more a-roving from you, fair maid.
5.
Solo
I love this fair maid as my life,
Mark you well what I say!
I love this fair maid as my life,
And soon she'll be my little wife;
I'll go no more a-roving from you, fair maid.
6.
Solo
And if you'd know this maiden's name,
Mary you well what I say!
And if you'd know this maiden's name,
Why soon like mine, 'twill be the same,
I'll go no more a-roving from you, fair maid.

Davis and Tozer give in full a version 37(b), "Simplified Version," which differs in music but not words.

Frederick J. Davis and Ferris Tozer, 1887 and later eds. (with 37b added to revised ed.), "Sailors' Songs or 'Chanties,'" pp. 68-71, Boosey & Co., Ltd., London.

Lacks the ribald verses added by chantey


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jun 07 - 03:48 PM

Last sentence cut off for some reason.
Lacks the ribald verses added by many chantey 'singers', and, perhaps by some sailors on undisciplined vessels.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:47 AM

But then I got an awful shock
Mark well what I do say
For I put my hand upon her cock
pause ---- (Her COCK?)
For her skirt was a kilt
And her name was Jock,
I'll go no more a-roving with you, fair maid


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: shipcmo
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 04:16 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Apr 10 - 07:33 PM

I put my hand upon the spot
Mark well etc
She said "Now you know what I've got"

I took one look and nearly died
Mark well etc
'Twas secret agent Henry Hyde


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 09:54 AM

For years, I have been doing:
'Twas then she let all her clothes fall, mwwids,...
I took one look and turned to go....
'Twas detective Frankie Serpico.

It's hard to realize that so many years have gone by since that [in]famous ribald sea chantey symposium. I asked Stan for access to his archive of ribald chanteys and his reply was that Gershon Legman had it and was going to publish it one of these days. I asked him for a backup copy and he, gentleman that he was, said that he'd think of it. Legman is, I believe, gone and there is still no book or album.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 09:57 AM

By the way, has anyone got a recording of that event?


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 04:41 PM

Legman died in 1999.
Google has put together a comprehensive list of his books and articles, including translations into French and German. Nothing on the sea chantey.

Search inauthor:Gershon inauthor:Legman


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 04:49 PM

The Hugill/Legman material has been discussed here:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=74245#1293479

There appear to have been no further developments.


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Subject: RE: Lyr help req: Maid from Amsterdam
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Apr 10 - 08:06 PM

Where is the "ghost whisper" when we need her?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid from Amsterdam / Amsterdam Maid
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 01:34 PM

Where did you find the John Masefield article? I'm working on a paper on Heywood right now and this would be an intriguing connection to look up. The article link is no longer there.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid from Amsterdam / Amsterdam Maid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 02:23 PM

See Masefield, "A Sailors Garland ...", 1906, etc. and other references in The New Cambridge Bibliography...., vol. 5, found by entering Masefield, 1906, in Google.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid from Amsterdam / Amsterdam Maid
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 03:38 PM

See also Luce's "Naval Songs" (1883), which I believe has the earliest *chanty* related published mention of "A-roving"...(so far)

Here's what Luce gives for title and lyrics -- which are, unfortunately, nothing special:

LEE-GANGWAY CHORUS

In Amsterdam there dwelt a maid,
And her you ought to sea.
In Amsterdam there dwelt a maid,
And making baskets was her trade.
I'll go no more a-roving with you, fair maid.
A-roving, a-roving, since roving's been my ruin,
I'll go no more a-roving with you, fair maid.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid from Amsterdam / Amsterdam Maid
From: GUEST,SteveG
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 05:42 PM

GUEST,
If you look back up the thread you'll see that the only connection between Heywood and 'A-Roving' is the use of a very common motif that can be found in numerous songs and forms. There is no direct connection at all and nothing really to suggest that they are related. Check Lighter's post.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid from Amsterdam / Amsterdam Maid
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 01:27 PM

The "Secret agent 'Enry 'Yde" business was recorded by Oscar Brand in the 1950s. He either invented it or got it from a very contemporary source.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid from Amsterdam / Amsterdam Maid
From: GUEST,Bobby T.
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:14 AM

Very recent version from Nils Brown appearing on a pirate-themed video-game calle Assassins Creed Black Flag (along with about a dozen other old shanties) has a different ending all along:


Then a great big dutchman rammed my bow
Mark well, what I do say
A great big dutchman rammed my bow
And said: "Young man, this is my frouw!"

So take a warning, boys, from me
Mark well, what I do say
So take a warning, boys, from me
With other man's wifes don't make too free


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Maid from Amsterdam / Amsterdam Maid
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 08:56 AM

Nice addition.

It comes from Harlow's book; he got it from Fred Buryeson's 1909 article, so it seems to be genuine.


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Subject: ADD Version: A-Rovin'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 03:11 AM

We have two versions of this song in the Digital Tradition, and other versions scattered all around. I thought it might be an idea to consolidate them into this one thread that has most of the versions we have posted.

Here's our first version from the Digital Tradition:

A-ROVIN' (1)

In Amsterdam there lived a Maid
Mark well what I do say!
In Amsterdam there lived a maid
And she was mistress of her trade
I'll go no more a-rovin' with you fair maid
A-rovin', a-rovin', since rovin's been my ru-i-in
I'll go no more a-rovin' with you fair maid

One night I crept from my abode
Mark etc.
One night I crept from my abode
To meet this fair maid down the road
I'll go etc.

I met this fair maid after dark
And took her to her favorite park.

I took this fair maid for a walk
And we had such a loving talk.

I put me arm around her waist
Sez she, "Young man, you're in great haste!"

I put my hand upon her knee
Sez she, "Young man you're rather free!"

I put my hand upon her thigh
Sez she, "Young man you're rather high!"

*

She sore that she'd be true to me
But spent me pay-day fast and free

In three weeks time I was badly bent
Then off to sea I sadly went.

In a bloodboat Yank bound round Cape Horn
Me boots and clothes were all in pawn

Bound up Cape Stiff through ice and snow
And up the coast to Cally-o

An' then back to the Liverpool Docks
Saltpeter stowed in our boots an' socks

Now when I got home from sea
A soger had her on his knee.

* I've omitted 7 of Hugill's rather clumsy attempts to
sanitize the song. If you can't figure out how an
"anatomical progression" works, you're
beyond help. RG
From Shanties from the Seven Seas, Hugill
@bawdy @sailor @work
filename[ AROVIN1
TUNE FILE: AROVIN.1
CLICK TO PLAY
TUNE FILE: AROVIN.2
CLICK TO PLAY
RG




A-ROVIN'
(alternate titles: Amsterdam or The Maid of Amsterdam)


In Amsterdam there lived a maid
Mark well what I do say!
In Amsterdam there lived a maid
And she was mistress of her trade
We'll go no more a-rovin' with you fair maid

CHORUS
A-rovin', a-rovin', since rovin's bin me ru-i-in
We'll go no more a-rovin' with you fair maid

2. One night I crept from my abode.
Ch. Mark well what I do say!
One night I crept from my abode
To meet this fair maid down the road.
Ch. We'll go no more a-rovin' with you, fair maid.
Full Chorus
A-rov.in', a-rovin', Since rovin's bin me ru-i-in,
We'll go no more a-rovin', With you, fair maid.

3. I met this fair maid after dark,
An' took her to her favourite park.

4. I took this fair maid for a walk,
An' we had such a lovin' talk.

5. I put me arm around her waist,
Sez she, 'Young man, yer in great haste!'

6. I put me hand upon her knee,
Sez she, 'Young man, yer rather free!'

7. I put me hand upon her thigh,
Sez she, 'Young man, yer rather high!'

8. I towed her to the Maiden's Breast,
From south the wind veered wes'sou'west [sou'sou'westj.

9. An' the eyes in her head turned east an' west,
And her thoughts wuz as deep as an ol' sea-chest.

10. We had a drink—of grub a snatch,
We sent two bottles down the hatch.

11. Her dainty arms wuz white as milk,
Her lovely hair wus soft as silk.

12. Her heart wuz poundin' like a drum,
Her lips wuz red as any plum.

13. We laid down on a grassy patch,
An' I felt such a ruddy ass.

14. She pushed me over on me back,
She laughed so hard her lips did crack.


15. She swore that she'd be true to me,
But spent me pay-day fast and free.

16. In three weeks' time I wuz badly bent,
Then off to sea I sadly went.

17. In a bloodboat Yank bound round Cape Horn,
Me boots an' clothes wuz all in pawn.

18. Bound round Cape Stiff through ice an' snow,
An' up the coast to Callyo.

19. An' then back to the Liverpool Docks,
Saltpetre stowed in our boots an' socks.

20. Now when I got back home from sea,
A soger had her on his knee.

The last three or four stanzas are fairly modern. Saltpetre, guano, and all kinds of nitrates were shipped from the west coast of South America to British and continental ports mainly in the latter days of sail.



Source: Shanties from the Seven Seas, collected by Stan Hugill (1961), pp. 48-49

In the Digital Tradition, Dick Greenhaus says, "I've omitted 7 of Hugill's rather clumsy attempts to sanitize the song. If you can't figure out how an "anatomical progression" works, you're beyond help. RG"

Well, maybe because I spent 8 years in a Catholic seminary, I guess I'm beyond help. I never can figure these things. out. So, what were the actual words that Hugill sanitized from? I put the verses Dick omitted in italics. Please, somebody put me out of my innocent misery and tell me what the words really were...

-Joe-

Up above, Jerry filled in most of the blanks for us. Here's Jerry's post. Can anybody add more?

Thread #5070   Message #999107
Posted By: GUEST,Jerry
08-Aug-03 - 04:45 PM
Thread Name: Origins:Maid from Amsterdam/Amsterdam Maid/A-Rovin
Subject: Lyr Add: MAID OF AMSTERDAM

OK, twist my arm.

Stan sang these verses during the infamous Uncensored Sea Songs workshop at the Mystic Seaport Sea Music Festival in '88 or '89. I had the luck to share the stage with him, along with a couple of other unwitting folks who, like me, thought that "uncensored" meant ribald, double-entendre material.

Stan talked a bit to introduce things, but then Tom Lewis, who was in the audience, asked to share a song from his Royal Navy days. He stepped forward and proceeded to sing two of the most graphic and obscene songs I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. That set the tone, and must have induced Stan to open up his treasure box of "the real versions" of chanteys.

Here's his take on MAID OF AMSTERDAM:

In Amsterdam there lived a maid
Mark well what I do say!
In Amsterdam there lived a maid
And she was mistress of her trade.
I'll go no more a rovin'...

I took this fair maid to the park
Mark well...
And we set down where it was dark.

I put my hand upon her breast...
And the wind from her ass blew south southwest.

The flesh of her breast was as white as milk...
And the hair of her cunt was soft as silk.

The cheeks of her ass were tight as a drum...
And the lips of her cunt were red as a plum.

Her belly it was soft and wide...
And it gave me such a lovely ride.


I have always hoped his wife or sons would publish the collection of unbowdlerized chanteys he hinted he had in his files. No sign of it yet, unfortunately.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: DTStudy: A-Rovin'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 03:14 AM

...and the second version in the Digital Tradition also fills in some of the blanks from the Hugill version - where's this one from?

A-ROVIN' (2)

In Portsmouth town there lived a maid
Bless you young women
In Portsmouth town there lived a maid
Do mind what I do say!
In Portsmouth town there lived a maid
The British Navy was her trade,
I'll go no more a-rovin' with you fair maid.
A-rovin', a-rovin', since rovin's been my ru-i-in
I'll go no more a-rovin' with you fair maid.

She swore to me that she was true
Bless etc.
She swore to me that she was true
Do mind etc.
She's true to me, she's true to you
She's true to the whole damn Navy, too
I'll go no more etc.

I put me hand upon her toe
Sez she,"Young man, you're rather low"

I put me hand upon her knee
Sez she,"Young man, you're makion' free"

I put me hand upon her thigh
Sez she,"Young man, you're drawin' nigh"

I put me hand upon her thatch
Sez she,"Young man, that's my main hatch"

I slipped me mainmast to her blocks
Sez she, "Young man, I've got the pox!"

@bawdy @sailor @work
filename[ AROVIN2
TUNE FILE: AROVIN.2
CLICK TO PLAY
TUNE FILE: AROVIN.1
CLICK TO PLAY
RG


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Subject: RE: DTStudy: A-Rovin'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 03:17 AM

Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song:

A-Rovin'

DESCRIPTION: In this cautionary tale, a sailor meets an Amsterdam maid, fondles portions of her body progressively, has sex with her, and catches the pox. She leaves him after he has spent all his money.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1887 (College Songs)
KEYWORDS: bawdy disease sailor warning whore
FOUND IN: Britain(England,Scotland(Aber)) US(MA,NE,So,SW) Australia
REFERENCES (20 citations):
GreigDuncan7 1479, "A-Rovin', A-Rovin'" (1 fragment, 1 tune)
Walton/Grimm/Murdock, pp. 36-38, "A-Roving" (1 composite text, 1 tune)
Colcord, pp. 87-88, "A-Roving" (1 text, 1 tune)
Harlow, pp. 49-52, "A-Roving" (2 texts, 2 tunes)
Hugill, pp. 48-52, 101, "A-Roving" (6 texts plus 3 fragments, 4 tunes; the 5th text is "Go Rowing," a 1916 Norwegian adaptation by Henrik Wergelands taken from Brochmann's "Opsang Fra Seilskibstiden." p.101 is a version of "A Long Time Ago") [AbrEd pp. 46-48]
Sharp-EFC, XXV, pp. 28-29, "A-Roving" (1 text, 1 tune)
Cray, pp. 64-67, "A-Rovin'" (1 text, 1 tune)
Randolph-Legman I, pp. 124-125, "The Maid of Amsterdam" (1 text, 1 tune)
Doerflinger, pp. 56-58, "A-Roving" (2 texts, 2 tunes)
Bone, pp. 99-103, "Amsterdam" (1 censored text, 1 tune)
Shay-SeaSongs, pp. 80-81, "Maid of Amsterdam (A-Roving)" (1 text, 1 tune)
Linscott, pp. 125-130, "Amsterdam" [1 fragment, 1 tune, censored by the informant)
Meredith/Covell/Brown, p. 96, "A-roving" (1 text, 1 tune)
Finger, pp. 156-157, "The Amsterdam Maid" (1 text, 1 tune)
JHJohnson, p. 51, "The Amsterdam Maid" (1 text)
Fireside, p. 168. "A-Roving" (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 89, "A-Roving" (1 text)
DT, AROVIN1* AROVIN2*
ADDITIONAL: Captain John Robinson, "Songs of the Chantey Man," a series published July-August 1917 in the periodical _The Bellman_ (Minneapolis, MN, 1906-1919). "A'Rovin" is in Part 1, 7/14/1917.
ADDITIONAL: Henry Randall Waite, _College Songs: A Collection of New and Popular Songs of the American Colleges_, new and enlarged edition, Oliver Ditson & Co., 1887, p. 80, "A-Roving!" (1 text, 1 tune, probably cleaned up as the girl merely causes the man to spend all his money) (part 3, p. 74 in the 1876 edition)

Roud #649
RECORDINGS:
Richard Maitland, "A-Roving" (AFS, 1939; on LC26)
Stanley Slade & chorus: "A'Roving" (on Lomax41, LomaxCD1741)

CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "The Fire Ship" (plot) and references there
cf. "All Under the New Mown Hay"
cf. "Yo Ho, Yo Ho" (theme, lyrics)
cf. "Tickle My Toe" (theme)
cf. "The Girl in Portland Street" (plot, theme)
cf. "Baltimore (Up She Goes)" (theme)
cf. "Ye Wanton Young Women" (theme, chorus lines)
NOTES: This is a partial formula song in that the sailor begins at the knee, moves up to the thigh, and then to the "snatch." See "Yo Ho, Yo Ho" ("I Put My Hand") for extended treatment of this formula. - EC
Some similar lines are found in Thomas Heywood's "The Rape of Lucrece" (c. 1607), and Shay traces this piece back to that time (Masefield also accepts, and may have originated, this identification), but Doerflinger states that they are not the same song.
The version collected by Meredith from Wally Marshall has an unusual ending; when the singer places his hand upon the girl's breast, she breaks wind, seemingly causing him to abandon the venture.
In College Songs (1887), there is a song "Rig-a-jig," with verses "As I was walking down the street, Heigho (x4), A pretty girl I chanced to meet...." "Said I to her, 'What is your trade?' ... Said she to me, 'I'm a weaver's maid.'" I suspect dependence, but the song ends after two verses, so it is not clear how it proceeded. Or, rather, I suspect it IS clear but the song has been cleaned up by excision. - RBW
Roud assigns #7181 to the GreigDuncan7 fragment, which changes the sex of the object, viz., "I'll gang nae mair a rovin' wi' you, young man." The fragment of the chorus gives no idea of the rest of the song so I have chosen to lump this text with the common "A-Rovin'." - BS
Last updated in version 4.0
File: EM064

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Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
Go to the Ballad Index Bibliography or Discography

The Ballad Index Copyright 2016 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: ADD Version: The Amsterdam Maid
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 04:37 AM

THE AMSTERDAM MAID

In Louisville I met a maid,
Mark well what I do say,
An' she was mistress of her trade,
It was diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my hand upon her toe,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, Young man, you're rather low,
For to diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my finger on her knee,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, Young man, you're rather free,
For it's diddle, diddle, diddle alla day

I put my arm around her waist,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, Young man, you're in great haste
For to diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my hand upon her thigh,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, You're getting pretty nigh
To my diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.

I put my hand upon her ass,
Mark well what I do say,
She says, Let's lay down on the grass
An' diddle, diddle, diddle alla day.


Sung as above by Mr. L. B., Joplin, Missouri, April 14, 1933. He learned it about 1890, in southwest Missouri. Randolph notes: "This is 'The Amsterdam Maid,' found in many songbooks. See: Finger, Frontier Ballads (1927) pp. 156—57; Johnson, Bawdy Ballads and Lusty Lyrics (1935) pp. 32—33; Joanna Colcord, Songs of American Seamen (1938) p. 87; Burl Ives, Song Book (1953) pp. 114—15." Again, this is a world-famous song, with half a dozen fine melodies—that given here not being one of them—which would require the space of a monograph properly to display and discuss. Numerous older British country versions exist, the usual bawdy nautical form being a recent development, with its usual title "A-Rovin'," and probably the best tunes, in Hugill, Shanties from the Seven Seas, pp. 46—51 and 101 with four tunes. See a few further references in Cray, Erotic Muse, pp. 18—19 and 152, the most valuable being to the still unpublished Robert Gordon manuscripts.

Source: Roll Me In Your Arms: 'Unprintable' Ozark Folksongs and Folklore, Volume 1 (collected by Vance Randolph, edited by G. Legman, University of Arkansas Press, 1992) - #20, page 124


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Subject: RE: Origins:A-Rovin/Maid from Amsterdam/Amsterdam Maid
From: doc.tom
Date: 15 Feb 17 - 05:40 AM

The 'Bless you young women' second line (A-roving 2 above) comes from [only?] John Short - but the rest of the verses above are not his. What isn't in any of the verses quoted above is Short's 'I lift this fair maid over the stile... and nine months after she had a little child' verse - go on, you can work it out!


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