Origins: The Old Man's Wish / Old Man's Song

Subject: The Old Man's Wish (180 Loyal Songs)
From:
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 02:57 PM

Does anyone know where I can find the 17th Century tune "The Old Man's Wish"? It was published in "180 Loyal Songs" in 1685 in England. We need it for a show we're doing on the life of Benjamin Franklin. Some of the lyrics are: May I govern my passions with an absolute sway, grow wiser and better as my strength wears away, without gout or stone, by gentle decay.

Many thanks.

Susan Marshall

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Old Man's Wish (180 Loyal Songs)
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 04:09 PM

There is something at Bodleian by that title, (don't know if this will work...........)
Try this. It's not too readable, though. I'll look some more for a tune......

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Old Man's Wish (180 Loyal Songs)
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 04:16 PM

Readable lyrics here, and a tune at JC's but don't know if it is the correct one.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Old Man's Wish (180 Loyal Songs)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 04:40 PM

It's the correct tune, having been extracted from an abc at Bruce Olson's site. There seem to be some errors in the notation, though.

The University of Toronto site is wrong to state that the piece is anonymous; it was written by the astronomer Dr. Walter Pope, and published on a broadside with music in 1684 (probably), and in The Theater of Music, where the tune is attributed to Dr. John Blow, in 1685. (See Claude M. Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music, 1966).

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Old Man's Wish (180 Loyal Songs)
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Aug 02 - 04:51 PM

Thanks, Malcolm; I'll e mail.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Old Man's Wish (180 Loyal Songs)
From:
Date: 25 Aug 02 - 05:24 PM

Dear All:

Thanks for your help. Got what I needed. Many thanks. Now our Ben Franklin will be singing the correct tune.

Susan Marshall

Subject: ADD: The Old Man's Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 05:47 PM

The Old Man's Song

Traditional, c. 1685

THE OLD MAN'S SONG

If I live to grow old, for I find I go down,
Let this be my fate in a country town:
May I have a warm house, with a stone at the gate,
And a cleanly young girl to rub my bald pate;

Refrain:
May I govern my passions with absolute sway,
And grow wiser and better as strength wears away,
Without gout or stone, by a gentle decay.

2. In a country town, by a murmuring brook,
With the ocean at distance on which I may look;
With a spacious plain, without hedge or stile,
And an easy pad nag to ride out a mile.
Refrain:

3. With Horace and Plutarch, and one or two more
Of the best wits that lived in the age before;
With a dish of roast mutton, not venison or teal,
And clean, though coarse, linen at every meal.
Refrain:

4. With a pudding on Sunday, and stout humming liquor,
And remnants of Latin to welcome the vicar;
With a hidden reserve of good Burgundy wine,
To drink the king's health in as oft as I dine.
Refrain:

5. When the days are grown short, and it freezes and snows,
May I have a coal fire as high as my nose;
A fire (which once stirred up with a prong),
Will keep the room temperate all the night long.
Refrain:

6. With a courage undaunted may I face my last day;
And when I am dead may the better sort say
'In the morning when sober, in the evening when mellow,
He's gone, and he leaves not behind him his fellow!'
Refrain:

https://www.musicanet.org/robokopp/english/oldmanso.htm

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Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry:

If I Live to Grow Old

DESCRIPTION: "If I lie to grow old... Let this be my fate in a fair country town." "May I govern my passions with absolute sway, And grow wiser and better as my strength wears away." He hopes for a good home, health, a good view, good books, good food, a good death
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1685 (Playford, Theatre of Music, according to Bell-Combined)
KEYWORDS: death age nonballad virtue
FOUND IN: Britain(England)
REFERENCES (2 citations):
Huntington-Whalemen, pp. 300-302, "As I Grow Old" (1 text, 1 tune)
Bell-Combined, pp.460-461, "The Old Man's Song" (1 text)
ST BeCo460 (Partial)
Roud #2093
File: BeCo460

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The Ballad Index Copyright 2020 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.

Subject: ADD Version: As I Grow Old
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 03:20 AM

AS I GROW OLD

If I live to grow old as I find I go down
Let this be my fate in a fair country town
May I have a warm house with a stone at my gate
And a cleanly young girl to rub my bald pate

CHORUS
May I govern my passions with an absolute sway
And grow wiser and better as my strength wears away
Without gout or stone by a gentle decay

In a country town by a murmuring brook
With the ocean at a distance on which I may look
With a spacious plain without hedge or stile
And an easy passage to ride out a mile

With Horace and Plutarch and one or two more
Of the best of poets lived in ages before
With a dish of roast mutton not venison or lamb
And clean tho course linen at every meal

With a pudding on Sunday with stout humming liquor
And a remnant of Latin to puzzle the vicar
With a hidden reserve of Burgundy wine
To drink the President’s health as oft as we dine

With courage undaunted may I face my last day
And when I am dead may the better sort say
In the morning when sober in the evening when mellow
He’s gone and hain’t left behind his fellow

FINAL CHORUS
For he governed his passions with an absolute sway
And grew wiser and better as strength passed away
Without gout or stone by a gentle decay


Paulina 1808

In Calliope, London, 1788, p. 58, this sing is called "If I Live to Grow Old.” And there it is the King’s health and not the President’s which is toasted in Burgundy wine.

Source: Songs the Whalemen Sang, by Gale Huntington (Barre Publishers, 1964), pages 300-302


Melody transcribed on request - [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Man's Wish / Old Man's Song
From: oldhippie
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 10:11 AM

GRANDFATHER (as recorded by the Kilkenny Krew)


Grandfather sits in an old rocking chair
And he hums a sad song to the still morning air
This old folks prison don’t feel much like home
And though he’s got friends he feels so much alone

Chorus:
Ah, but Julie comes somedays when she finds the time
And she brings homemade bread and some blueberry wine
And most of all she brings him hope for awhile
And she leaves the old man with a tear and a smile

In the old days Grandfather remembers so sweet
You should see the old Ford Model T’s on the street
And the hot roaring twenties were a young man’s delight
With the straw hat and whiskey and speed kings and dice

Chorus

Do the folks in the village remember us still
Or, are we quickly forgotten when we’re over the hill
And as Grandfather drifts down the warm sunset years
He can scarcely recall all the seasons of tears

Chorus

Grandfather sits in an old rocking chair
And he hums a sad song to the still morning air
This old folks prison don’t feel much like home
And though he’s got friends he feels so much alone

Chorus