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Richard Dyer-Bennet
Related threads:
Richard Dyer-Bennet (1913-1991) (19)
Dyer-Bennet biography now available (10)
Richard Dyer-Bennet info. nice. (40)
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Subject: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,johntm Date: 25 Aug 02 - 07:55 PM I just found two LP dating from 1995 by Richard Dyer-Bennett. I had never heard of him before. He issued the LPs himself, the first he said in a series... I rather liked the music (Irish and English folk songs or popular ballads) , altho my wife hated it. She said it sounded whiny. Anyone know anything about him johntm |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Anglo Date: 25 Aug 02 - 08:02 PM Try putting "Richard Dyer-Bennett" in the Digitrad & Forum Search box, follow through and read the threads that come up (with the help of a text search for the man if necessary, in each thread, then if there's anything specific you still want to know, start a more specific thread in the forum. You'd probably get quite a lot of more general information, too, by doing a similar search on Google or your favorite search engine. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Midchuck Date: 25 Aug 02 - 08:05 PM His masterpiece is not singing. It's his recital of Mark Twain's 1601. One of my most treasured recordings. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 25 Aug 02 - 08:05 PM 1995??...are you sure those are not from 1965?...I have had some Dyer-Bennet records since about then...he (well, his music) was one of my early passions! |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,johntm Date: 25 Aug 02 - 08:11 PM Biil D. Yes it should have been 1955. Johntm |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 25 Aug 02 - 08:21 PM *smile*..yep..and there were earlier ones...He decided the quality was not good enough, so he started his own company in order to have control...He was quite a musician, though not exactly 'trad'...(he had studied classic guitar)..I still listen to his stuff... |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: artbrooks Date: 25 Aug 02 - 08:27 PM Smithsonian/Folkways has pretty much all of his recordings (RDB 1-13 and Twain's 1601) available on cassette and CD, here. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 26 Aug 02 - 02:41 AM For enlightenment and edification, previous Richard Dyer-Bennet discussion here. Incidentally, one "t" in "Bennet." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Aug 02 - 09:05 AM Yes, Smithsonian/Folkways has been doing a great job re-issuing Dyer-Bennet's recordings, with his widow Malvene overseeing the production and with updated notes by his daughter Bonnie. His high tenor singing appeals primarily to those used to listening to classical music, but there's a lot that the rest of us folkies could learn from his impeccable renditions. Sadly, his sense of humor is only evident in his Georgian folk tales and his remarkable recording of Mark Twain's 1601. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Aug 02 - 11:32 AM I grew up listening to those recordings, and was glad to see them reissued a few years ago on CD. So 1995 isn't unheard of--as far as reissues go. I'll have to track down the Mark Twain--I haven't heard that. Thanks for the link. He had a truly marvelous voice. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,Just Amy Date: 26 Aug 02 - 12:52 PM I have a music book of his. It has "Eddy Stone Light" which he says he wrote the final verse for. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 26 Aug 02 - 03:28 PM That should be "he says ie wrote the final verse for" his version Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Aug 02 - 06:15 PM Just Amy- What is the title of your Dyer-Bennet music book? I have a copy of THE DYER-BENNET FOLK SONG BOOK but it doesn't include "Eddy Stone Light". He certainly deserves credit for composing a fitting and witty last verse for that traditional song. I wasn't aware that he wrote another music book. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,johntm Date: 26 Aug 02 - 11:24 PM Thanks everybody. I clicked back to that earlier thread and noticed several mentions of a blacklist. Was he blacklisted during the 50s red scare, and what did Burl Ives have to do with it? JohnTM |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 27 Aug 02 - 09:59 AM JohnTM-
Yes, Dyer-Bennet was most certainly blacklisted in the 1950's and 1960's; he refused to cooperate at the Committee Red Scare hearings. Burl Ives was one of the people who mentioned Dyer-Bennet's name at those hearings in testimony as a person who occasionally frequented the Almanac House (residence of Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie et al) in Greenwich Village, singing at various parties and at benefit concerts for Russian war orphans and labor unions during WW II. Dyer-Bennet continued to do some concerts but he was apparently banned from radio and television. Burl Ives' career probably benefited considerably. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,johntm Date: 27 Aug 02 - 10:00 PM Thanks Charley. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Art Thieme Date: 27 Aug 02 - 11:04 PM I thought he was a fine folksinger. Glad his music is still making some waves in our little folk pond. I have great memories of seeing R.D.B. do a wonderful concert on a beautiful summer night at the University Of Chicago's Court Theater outside Mandel Hall. The entire Gestalt of that night is a fond memory and one that is always extremely detailed. WFMT in Chicago always played his music----and introduced many of us to those important works. Art Thieme |
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Subject: Lyr Add: PASSIVE RESISTANCE (Richard Dyer-Bennet) From: Charley Noble Date: 28 Aug 02 - 09:48 AM One of the unique Dyer-Bennet composed songs in my collection is this WW II topical song commenting on Norwegian passive resistance to Nazi occupation: PASSIVE RESISTANCE (Words and music by Richard Dyer-Bennet © 1942) This is a story of passive resistance, Of a man who refused to give Nazis assistance; A farmer there lived in occupied Norway Who found a grim warning tacked on to his doorway, It read: "You have failed to come up to your quota; Next week if you fail by a single iota, Your farm will be taken and you will be killed. This is the law and must be fulfilled." The farmer replied: "Sirs, the undersigned begs To inform you concerning my quota of eggs, I posted the warning right where the hens live, But the stubborn old bipeds still failed to give So I wrung all their necks, the foul saboteurs. Delighted to serve you, sincerely yours." Clearly a subversive mind was at work here. Charley Noble
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,Just Amy Date: 28 Aug 02 - 07:58 PM Charley Noble, I have the book at home, so I will try to get on and get back to you this evening. I think the book has Barbara Allen in it too. Can we make copies of these books if they are out of print? Amy (Just Amy) |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,johntm Date: 29 Aug 02 - 08:55 PM Charley Wonderful Johnm |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: DonD Date: 29 Aug 02 - 09:44 PM I first heard RDB on recordings (old 78's which I still have) back in the 40's and still sing some of the songs I learned from them, especially 'The Three Ra'ens". I had the pleasure of seeing him in the 50's in NYC at Town Hall or the 92nd St Y and was impressed by his classical guitar playing (far from the three chords I was used to) and then the lute, which was a revelation! |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 29 Aug 02 - 10:36 PM I was just in the catacombs, looking for(and failing to find) an old song book which had "Plaisir d'Amour" (The Joys of Love), with the remark that it was taken from the singing of Richard Dyer-Bennet...then it was noted that (almost exact quote) .."no chords are given here, out of respect for the guitar accompaniment of Mr. Dyer-Bennet, which is something more than mere strumming" Dyer-Bennet says he finally learned to play the guitar 'right' from studying with Rey de la Torres, a prominent guitarist of his day. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 30 Aug 02 - 09:49 AM That's "Rey de la Torre", with no "S" on the end. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SO WE'LL GO NO MORE A-ROVING (Byron...) From: Don Firth Date: 30 Aug 02 - 02:21 PM Not to keep pickin' on Bill D here, but the song in question is not Plaisir d'Amour but We'll Go No More A-Roving. It's in A New Treasury of Folk Songs compiled by Tom Glazer (Bantam Books, Inc, New York, 1961). Glazer, I think, spent some time at Dyer-Bennet's "School of Modern Minstrelsy" in Aspen, Colorado in the late Forties. It's a poem by Lord Byron that Dyer-Bennet set to music. It's an absolute gem. Dyer-Bennet's guitar accompaniment is actually not that difficult: a flowing arpeggio pattern with a carefully worked out bass line. But it's simplicity is absolutely elegant. The words to the poem:—
So we'll go no more a-roving Some years ago, someone posted a thread asking for the words to Plaisir d'Amour (The Joys of Love) in French. I don't know if they ever found them, but in any case, here they are:
Plaisir d'amour ne dure qu'un moment Joan Baez and a couple of other people have recorded it using only the chorus with new words written to the same tune as the chorus. Nice song, but in the original (yes, there is an original), the words of the verses are different and the tune of each verse is different. Sheet music and a history of the song can be found here. I've heard Richard Dyer-Bennet sing it in French during a concert, but on his first record on his own label (available here), he sings it in his own excellent English translation (incidentally, So We'll Go No More A-Roving is on this same record):
The joys of love are but a moment long, Dyer-Bennet's accompaniment to The Joys of Love is just about the finest example I've ever heard of classic guitar technique used to accompany the human voice. And when it comes to singing, there is a real lesson to be found in just listening to where he breathes. ". . . but she has changed her mind (ritardando at this point, vocal tone continues, then right into) The joys of (little ornamentation on 'of') love are but a moment long. . . ." all on one breath! Richard Dyer-Bennet was an absolute master of phrasing and dynamics. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Aug 02 - 02:32 PM Nice work, Don. Be nice when the Smithsonian finishes reproducing the entire series. Individual CD's apparently can be custom ordered now but my understanding is the latest CD released for general purchase is about #7. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 30 Aug 02 - 03:04 PM well..*grin*....I shoulda knowed someone would have the source!....(isn't memory a wonderful thing...you can create all manner of new facts, as long as you don't run into someone with the old ones!) thanks Dave and Don....(running BACK to catacombs to look at my ragged copy of "New Treasury of Folk Songs")....no wonder I didn't find Plaisir in the index! |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Art Thieme Date: 30 Aug 02 - 04:43 PM I do recall seeing "We'll go no more a-roving...etc" in a Ray Bradbury story a long time ago. Maybe in The Martian Chronicles-----either recited or sung or both??? Anybody recall this? Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 30 Aug 02 - 09:02 PM Right, Art. I can't remember where, but Byron's We'll Go No More A-Roving associated with a Ray Bradbury story does ring a bell somewhere in the mists of memory--along with "Golden Apples of the Sun," a line from Yeats' The Song of the Wandering Aengus, which someone of the folk persuasion has also set to music. It looks like Bradbury dips into the world of poetry the same way some folk types do. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Midchuck Date: 30 Aug 02 - 09:17 PM That Golden Apples of the Sun was Judy Collins, on her very first record - back when she was a folksinger. Just about 40 years ago - I was in college when it came out. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 30 Aug 02 - 09:32 PM Peter- do a search for the definitive discussion of Golden Apples of the Sun on the threads, and it may just be that Dyer-Bennet was the source of the musical arrangement. Some day I'll have to follow up tht lead. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 30 Aug 02 - 11:07 PM Finding some kind of definitive tune for The Song of the Wandering Aengus might be a little dicey. I just ran an exhaustive search on google (that is, I checked a mess of web sites until I got exhausted, but I got to nowhere near all of them), and I was really surprised at the number of people who have recorded it. But what makes it really messy is that many of them have written their own tunes for it. It seems that everybody and his pet chicken has taken a shot at it. Whenever there was a sound-clip, I listened to it, and I'm sorry to report that the vast majority of the melodies are pretty putrid—monotonous, unimaginative, and definitely unworthy of the poem. One fellow's credited was "said to have been written by Richard Dyer-Bennet." I listened to his thirty second sound-clip, but I don't think Dyer-Bennet wrote what I heard. It was pretty similar to the one that Judy Collins sings (she credits that to Dyer-Bennet by way of Will Holt), but I really have my doubts. Dyer-Bennet's tunes are pretty good, and this one's really kind of blah. It just didn't sound like something he would have done. A friend of mine named Dick Adams wrote a tune for it back in the late Fifties, and that's the one I've been singing. It isn't bad, but I must say it does leave something to be desired. From what I heard in the way of sound-clips, I'd say that the poem is up for grabs. Somebody! Write something good! It would be really nice if it had a tune that does it justice. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 31 Aug 02 - 12:26 AM The tune I like best is the one Burl Ives sort of 'chanted'....on "Songs of Ireland" record. He said he learned it from actress Sarah Allgood.. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 31 Aug 02 - 12:44 AM I just did a Google search...wow, there are a lot of folks who like the poem!...and I did find a tune in MP3 on this page by Hanz Araki...he plays flute and whistle.. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 31 Aug 02 - 12:55 AM and here is another MP3 by Larry Siegel the one by Hanz Araki sounds a bit like what Burl Ives did,,,but the Siegel tune does not move me at all! |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 31 Aug 02 - 09:16 AM Hmmmmm-is Will Holt still among the living? Unfortunately, he has a rather common name to try a Goggle search. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Sep 02 - 12:56 AM Great thread! Don, you never cease to amaze me (which pleases me no end!) For those doing sophisticated searches on Google, they have some Beta tests going that might help. Visit here for the list of test sites. The one I recommend giving a try is "Google Sets". You name a few things in your set, and see what else it comes up with that is related. This is great for jogging your memory, or finding other items that belong on the list that you didn't know about. Who knows, this might work with song titles or lists of performers. It seems to do a fairly intuitive search, and when it gets a list item wrong, you can usually easily identify *why* it happened. SRS
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,johntm Date: 02 Sep 02 - 08:13 PM Fascinating where a simple request on this site takes you.That is why I prefer it ( a weak verb) to a google search. Thanks everyone John T M |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Sep 02 - 08:47 PM Johnm- Well, you can also sign up as a member. It's a free service with lots of benefits. I did! Cheerily, Charley Noble, actually related to RDB |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Thomas Stern Date: 23 Jun 08 - 02:54 PM need details of the 78rpm record album: VOX 631 Minstrel Songs of the British Isles If you have this album, please PM me. Looking for matrix numbers, record numbers, song titles, date, album notes, etc. Thanks! Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Jun 08 - 04:46 PM Thomas- I'd be happy to conduct a search of the family archives; I don't have a personal copy. What kind of project are you working on? Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Thomas Stern Date: 23 Jun 08 - 08:40 PM Hello Charley Noble, I'm trying to update the discography Paul Jenkins will publish in his forthcoming biography of Richard Dyer-Bennet. Trying to list all the 78's and their reissues, the LP recordings, and known extant broadcast recordings. The 3 Vox albums one would think easy to locate, but only the USA and German sets appear in any of my sources - the British Isles set doesn't. I thought I had a copy, but have been unable to locate it. Hope you are able to find it. Many thanks! Best wishes, Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Jun 08 - 08:46 PM Thomas- I'll send your request off to his daughters, Bonnie and Brooke. It's nice to know that someone is working up a biography of my uncle. I do wonder if Paul Jenkins has considered interviewing my mother, Dyer-Bennet's surviving sister-in-law. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Barbara Date: 24 Jun 08 - 02:04 AM Wow Charlie, I didn't know you had that in your family tree, too, along with all the artists and maybe a raccoon... Though as I recall, the raccoon was in the house, not the tree... FWIW I do own an LP of RDB reading the Mark Twain bit about Queen Elisabeth, Sir Walter Raleigh and flatulence -- the number escapes me at the moment ---1601? and it has a number of bawdy songs on the flip, but it is 33.3 not 78. Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 24 Jun 08 - 09:43 AM Barbara- 1601 is a relatively rare recording by Dyer-Bennet. It's available as a CD on special order from Smithsonian Folkways. How on earth did you get your hands on one? My relationship to Dyer-Bennet is via my father's youngest sister, Malvene, who married him him in the early 1940's. Melvene was a modern dancer in the traditional of the Martha Graham Dance Company. She is my last surviving aunt and has always been a wealth of information about family history and music. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Abby Sale Date: 24 Jun 08 - 09:44 AM Yep, Mudchuck. 1601's one of my favorite LPs, too. Along with MacColl's Merry Muses of Caledonia, of course. I recall that Dyer-Bennet wrote that he put out that record largely because he was plain tired of being referred to as an aesthetic pantywaist. It was only that he had a high voice. Don't forget to listen to the other side of the record - it was one of the earliest over-the-counter records with the bawdy verses left in. If Dyer-Bennet was an acquired taste, he was also a great talent, dedicated to valid presentation and to giving the setting and meanings of the sings. I was stunned the first time I heard him on record and then live. Ahhh! Ballads! That's what it's all about! Not just Feel Good or Sing Along or Knee Slappin' but actually telling a story! I was sold from then on. About 1956. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 24 Jun 08 - 12:50 PM When I was a late-teenager (late 40s, early 50s) I first discovered Burl Ives, then Pete Seeger, and then Dyer-Bennet. Those three blew me away, and (with just a little help from Josh White) impelled me to get a guitar and start singing folk and folk-type songs. They their various approaches and excellences formed a sort of constellation of stars toward which I aimed the arrow of my desire. Of course I'm not and have never been of the quality (singing or instrumentally) of any of them, but among them they formed my idea of style and the kind of song I wanted to sing. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Thomas Stern Date: 24 Jun 08 - 05:05 PM Below is a discography of the recordings of Richard Dyer-Bennet. Anyone with corrections or additions is urged to contact me with revised data. NOTABLY MISSING data needed: details of the 1941 Packard recordings (matrix, record numbers, dates), details for VOX album 631 (Minstrelsy of the British Isles), many recording dates, release dates, missing matrix number sequences, odd tracks in compilations, and the source of many of the titles reissued on Stinson LPs. Your help to make this as correct and complete is greatly appreciated. THANK YOU! Sincerely, Thomas. RICHARD DYER-BENNET DISCOGRAPHY ------------------------------- 1941 Frederick C. Packard Jr. 110 - 112 3-12" 78rpm Ballads and folk songs sung by Richard Dyer-Bennet. The Charleston merchant Come all ye The golden vanity Cockle shells The Lincolnshire poacher Early one morning Lord Rendal Brigg Fair Leprechaun. 1941 Keynote album 108 (K517-K519) 3-10" 78rpm (issued fall 1941) Richard Dyer-Bennet Lute Singer BALLADS AND FOLK SONGS Mercury MG 20007 (1 side) 12"-LP (issued: 195x) OLDEN BALLADS Richard Dyer-Bennet and Tom Glazer M1001 THE GOLDEN VANITY K 517 A (108-1) MG 20007 B1 M1002 THE SWAG MAN K 518 A (108-3) MG 20007 B4 M1003 THE HOUSE CARPENTER K 518 B (108-4) MG 20007 B5 M1004 THE CHARLESTON MERCHANT K 519 A (108-5) MG 20007 B6 M1005 1.THE LINCOLNSHIRE POACHER, 2.THE DERBY RAM, K 517 B (108-2) MG 20007 B2 B3 M1006 1.HULLABALOO BELAY, 2.WHAT SHALL WE DO WITH A DRUNKEN SAILOR K 519 B (108-6) MG 20007 B7 B8 October 12, 1941 NBC Broadcast; 4:00 p.m.-4:15 p.m. Title Sylvia Marlowe Performers: Sylvia Marlowe, Richard Dyer-Bennet LWO 12873 16A2 December 7, 1941. Red net. Sustaining. Red Net Pearl Harbor Coverage. Part 6. 4:00 to 4:30 P. M. Sylvia Marlowe and Richard Dyer-Bennet The first selection is Bach's Prelude and Fugue in D Minor. Harpsichord and lute/vocal. Bulletin at 4:06: a report from KGU, Honolulu, from the roof of the Advertiser Building. The unidentified announcer says "the attack has been going on three hours. This is no joke, this is real war." The telephone company operator ends the transmission for an "emergency call." Reports from New York: H. R. Baukhage reports from Washington (about seven minutes). At 4:20, a "piano recital" is announced, but organ music is heard! At 4:23, Baukhage reports from the Press Room of the White House. He reads a message from President Roosevelt to the Emperor of Japan (four minutes). Sylvia Marlowe, Richard Dyer-Bennet, H. R. Baukhage. 30:00. December 28, 1941 NBC Blue network Broadcast; 2:00 p.m.-3:00 p.m. Title: Great plays - Taming of the shrew Performers: Grace Coppin; Herbert Rudley; Edward Jepson; Sydney Smith. Summary: Shakespeare adaptation includes music of the period by Sylvia Marlowe and Richard Dyer-Bennet. Adapted for radio by Randall McDougall. LWO 12736 77A1-4 OWI BROADCASTS probably 1943 An Office of War Information(OWI) recording of an unknown date. 15minutes Dyer-Bennet, Richard. (performer) LWO 5833 GR12 4B3 Probably 1943, An Office of War Information recording of an unknown date. 15minutes Richard Dyer Bennet sings topical songs Work(s) Rommel the fox. Battle of New Guinea. Song of submarine. Raid on Norway. LWO 5554 GR21 7B4 March 3, 1943 An Office of War Information recording. 15minutes Richard Dyer-Bennet West Indian music and comment. Work(s) Panograss. Norwegian cow. Mme. Chiang. Hitler is dead. Two Flynns. Brazilian fishhooks. LWO 5554 GR10 3A4 March 23, 1943 An Office of War Information recording. 15 minutes Richard Dyer Bennet sings topical songs Work(s) Drill ye Tarriers. Artists and writers. Merchant seamen. LWO 5554 GR10 3B1 April 9, 1943 An Office of War Information recording. 15 minutes Jazz in America (No. 116) Features music of Woody Guthrie, Lil Hardin Armstrong and Richard Dyer-Bennet. Work(s) Sally, don't you grieve. Dig a hole. Suzy Q. Song of the Bama. LWO 6087 GR9 8A2 April 10, 1943 An Office of War Information recording. 15 minutes Richard Dyer Bennet LWO 6087 GR9 5A4 April 17, 1943 An Office of War Information recording. 15 minutes Richard Dyer Bennet LWO 6087 GR1 10B4 April 20, 1943 An Office of War Information recording. 15 minutes Richard Dyer-Bennet LWO 5833 GR12 4B5 May 4, 1943 An Office of War Information recording. 15 minutes Richard Dyer Bennet LWO 5554 GR16 5B2 mid-September 1943, V-Disc recording session, RCA Victor studios, New York. Richard Dyer-Bennett, with guitar V-Disc 47 12"-78rpm VP- VP-158-D3-MC-197-1 1. Venezuela, 2. The keeper of the Eddystone Light V-Disc 47 A VP- VP-159-D3-MC-198-1 Foggy, foggy dew V-Disc 47 B Asch A364; Stinson S364 3-10" 78rpm BALLADS by the 20th Century Minstrel richard dyer-bennet 364-1A O, NO JOHN 364-1A SLP61 A3 364-1B 1.THREE JOLLY ROGUES, 2.COME ALL YE 354-1B 1.SLP61 B3 2.SLP60 A5 364-2A-1 THE FROG AND THE MOUSE 364-2A SLP2 A3 364-2B JOHN PEEL 364-2B SLP2 B4 364-3A 1.EDDYSTONE LIGHT, 2.LITTLE PIGS 364-3A SLP2 B6 A4 364-3B MOLLY MALONE 364-3B SLP2 A5 Asch/Stinson album 461 3-12" 78rpm BALLADS Richard Dyer-Bennet, vocal with guitar 1511 Barbara Allen 461-1 SLP35/FM103/FS203 B1 1512 I Once Loved A Girl 461-1 SLP35/FM103/FS203 A3 The Three Ra'ens Part I 461-2 SLP35/FM103/FS203 B2 The Three Ra'ens Part II 461-2 SLP35/FM103/FS203 B3 1515 John Henry 461-3 SLP35/FM103/FS203 A4 1516 Gently Johnny! 461-3 SLP35/FM103/FS203 A2 Asch 560-3 12" 78rpm 1 side BA 9 Spanish is the Loving Tongue 560-3 SLP35/FM103/FS203 A1 1944 New York concert debut NO KNOWN RECORDING NYT March 5, 1944 March 18, 1944 Atlantic spotlight NBC Broadcast 12:30 p.m. 30 minutes (incomplete) Performers: Edmund Gwenn; Alec Templeton; Sir Cedric Hardwicke; Richard Dyer-Bennet; Jack Hylton; C. Derniere Warren; Elizabeth Welsh; Carroll Gibbons. RWA 6324 A3-4 1944 Russian War Relief 801 AM/802 AM (A Musicraft Album - Produced by Musicraft Records) 2-10" 78rpm Russian War Relief presents BABES OF THE ZOO (lyrics by S.Marshak, music by Sam Morgenstern) Richard Dyer-Bennet with Charles Lichter and Orchestra RWR-5134 BABES OF THE ZOO - Side 1 RWR 801 AM RWR-5135 2 RWR 802 AM RWR-5136 3 RWR 802 AM RWR-5137 4 RWR 801 AM DECCA Records Richard Dyer-Bennett(sic), with guitar Decca Album A-573 (24209-24212) 4-10" 78rpm (Copyright 1947) Richard Dyer-Bennett Twentieth Century Minstrel American Folk Music Series Edited by Alan Lomax 16pp booklet DECCA DLP 5046 10"-LP 1949 DECCA ED 531 2-7" 45rpm TWENTIETH CENTURY MINSTREL - TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF ANCIENT TIMES! Decca DL-9102/DL-79102 12"-LP Twentiety Century Minstrel Folk Songs & Ballads Edited by Alan Lomax Decca DL 4469/74469 All time hootenanny folk favorites 12" LP various performers Decca DL 34056 American Folk Songs 12" LP various performers June 27, 1944, NYC 72303 EGGS AND MARROWBONE Decca 24209 B (side 2) DLP 5046 A2 DL 9102/79102 ED 531 72304 THE WILLOW TREE Decca 24210 A (side 3) DLP 5046 A3 DL 9102/79102 ED 531 72305 GREENSLEEVES Decca 24212 A (side 7) DLP 5046 B3 DL 9102/79102 ED 531 DL 30456 DL 74469 June 28, 1944, NYC 72315 LOLLY TOODUM DL 9102/79102 72316 MO MARY DL 9102/79102 72317 THE OLD MAID Decca 24211 B(1) (side 6) DLP 5046 B2(2) DL 9102/79102 ED 531 72317 EARLY ONE MORNING Decca 24211 B(2) (side 6) DLP 5046 B2(2) DL 9102/79102 ED 531 72318 The Devil and The Farmer's Wife (unissued) November 20, 1944 For the record Radio program, NBC Radio Network Wain, Bea; Wood, Barry; Dyer-Bennet, Richard; Block, Martin, spk; Bluestone, Harry, violinist. cnd. Garabedian Collection (Library of Congress) 1 sound disc : analog, 33 1/3 rpm, mono. ; 16 in. Contents: Dancing in the dark (instrumental) -- Turn off the rain (Barry Wood) -- I'll be seeing you (Bea Wain) -- Black is the color of my true love's hair (Richard Dyer-Bennet) -- Comin' around the corner (Barry Wood). Notes: "V-discs presents For the record"--from audition. LC Classification: RGB (playback copy) RWE (preservation master) IDC 45784 (original lacquer disc) November 20, 1944 Consstitution Hall, Washington DC "For The Record" session (V-Disc) Black is the Color unissued The Keeper of the Eddystone Light unissued DECCA Records Richard Dyer-Bennett(sic), with guitar March 15, 1945, NYC 72770 OH SALLY MY DEAR Decca 24212 A (side 8) DLP 5046 B4 DL 9102/79102 ED 531 72771 The Next Market Day; The Soldier and the Lady (unissued) 72772 The Sally Gardens (unissued) 72773 SWAPPING SONG Decca 24211 A (side 5) DLP 5046 B1 DL 9102/79102 ED 531 72774 FAIN WOULD I WED A FAIR YOUNG MAID DL 9102/79102 72775 The White Lillie (unissued) 72776 THE DEVIL AND THE FARMER'S WIFE Decca 24209 A (side 1) DLP 5046 A1 DL 9102/79102 ED 531 72777 VILLIKIENS AND HIS DINAH Decca 24210 B (side 4) DLP 5046 A5 DL 9102/79102 ED 531 1946 Disc 609 (5019-5021) 3-10" 78rpm (June, 1946) LOVE SONGS Richard Dyer-Bennet notes John Ward, texts inside front cover. Asch(Folkways) AA3/4 2-12" LP 1967 The Asch Recordings, 1939 to 1945 - Vol. 2 AA4 A1 Two Maidens Went Milking One Day Richard Dyer-Bennet (might be alternate take) ???????????????????? P119 AS I WAS GOING TO BALLYNURE Disc 5021B SLP2 B2 P120 BRIGG FAIR Disc 5020B SLP2 B5 P121 WESTRON WYNDE Disc 5019B SLP2 B3 P123 VENEZUELA Disc 5021A SLP2 A2 P124 TWO MAIDENS WENT MILKING ONE DAY Disc 5019A SLP2 B1 AA4 A1 P125 BLOW THE CANDLES OUT Disc 5020A SLP2 A1 March 31, 1946 CBS broadcast, Report to the nation Talk show; includes replay of A. Kostelanetz and L. Pons concert from March 21, 1945 and interviews, reports, and addresses. John Daly, host; guests iclude Henry J. Kaiser, Richard Dyer-Bennet, Jane "Knoxville" Jennings, Mme. Schiaparelli, Garry Moore with humorous stories about the life on the home front, unidentified war veterans. Sponsored by Continental Can Company; includes commercials. Work(s) Holiday for strings. Performed by First Army Orchestra. Caro nome / Giuseppe Verdi. Performed by Lily Pons, soprano. (1) RXA 9752 B "Second Best Bed" Ethel Barrymore Theatre, (6/3/1946 - 6/8/1946) 8performances Produced by Ruth Chatterton and John Huntington Written by N. Richard Nash Directed by Ruth Chatterton and N. Richard Nash Scenic Design by Motley; Costume Design by Motley Richard Dyer-Bennet Ballad Seller NO KNOWN RECORDING 1946 Concert Hall Society, Inc. Richard Dyer-Bennet, tenor Ignace Strassfogel, pianist Stefan Frankel, violin Jascha Bernstein, cello Liner notes: Philip Lieson Miller, texts Concert Hall A-9 Ludwig Van Beethoven - Scottish Songs 4-12" 78rpm Concert Hall A-G BEETHOVEN: IRISH Songs for Tenor and Piano Trio 3-10" 78rpm Concert Hall CHC-13 Scottish Songs (Schottische Lieder) 12"-LP CHS#85- 4 Faithfu' Johnie A-9 (1) CHC 13 A1 CHS#86- 2 1.O Sweet Were the Hours, 2.Oh How Can I Be Blithe and Glad A-9 (2) CHC 13 A2 CHS#87- 5 1.The Lovely Lass at Inverness, 2.Could This Ill World Have Been Contriv'd A-9 (3) CHC 13 A3 CHS#88-15 Sunset A-9 (4) CHC 13 A4 CHS#89- 9 Again My Lyre A-9 (5) CHC 13 B1 CHS#90- 3 On the Massacre at Glencoe A-9 (6) CHC 13 B2 CHS#91- 4 The British Light Dragoons A-9 (7) CHC 13 B3 CHS#92- 4 1.O Mary at Thy Window Be, 2.Bonny Laddie, Highland Laddie A-9 (8) CHC 13 B4 #93 The Pulse of an Irishman A-G (1) #94 Once More I hail Thee A-G (2) #95 Return to Ulster A-G (3) #96 Oh, Who My Dear Dermont A-G (4) #97 The Morning Air Plays On My Face A-G (5) #98 Morning A Cruel Turmoiler Is A-G (6) 1947 VOX Vox set 631 Minstrel Songs of the British Isles 4-10" 78rpm ( ????????????????????????) Vox set 632 Minstrel Songs of the U.S.A. 4-10" 78rpm (690-693) Vox set 633 Minstrel Songs of Germany 4-10" 78rpm (694-697) Sung in English, translations by Richard Dyer-Bennet VX 9081-3 Song of reproach 694-A (633-1) SLP60 A2 VX 9082-3 The three tailors 694-B (633-8) SLP60 A1 VX 9083-1 Secret Love 695-A (633-2) SLP60 B3 vx 9084-1 Jan Hinnerk 695-B (633-7) SLP61 B2 VX 9085-3 The Ghost of Basel 696-A (633-3) SLP61 B1 VX 9088-3 Along the Colorado Trail 690-A (632-1) SLP60 A3 VX 9090-3 The Rackets 'Round Blue Mountain Lake 690-B (632-8) SLP60 B4 vx 9092-2 The Quaker Lover 691-B (632-7) SLP60 A4 vx 9093-3 The Turkish Revery 693-A (632-4) vx 9094-3 Old Bangum 692-A (632-3) SLP61 A2 vx 9095-2 The Lass from The Low Country 692-B (632-6) SLP60 B5 vx 9096-4 When Cockle Shells Turn Silver Bells 691-A (632-2) vx 9097-2 Were You There? 693-B (632-5) VX 9097-3 Moonrise 697-A (633-4) SLP60 B2 VX 9098-1 Phyllis and Her Mother 696-B (633-6) SLP61 A1 VX 9104-3 Where to? (Franz Schubert-arr.Richard Dyer-Bennet) 697-B (633-6) SLP60 A6 MAY 1951 Remington RLP-199-34(jacket) R-199-34 (record) 12" LP [STAMPER: RE336-2 / 337-3] Continental 2001 ??? Continental 2011 (jacket) CLP-4011 (record label) 12"-LP [cover color photo of Richard Dyer-Bennet on stage, standing with guitar] [notes on jacket for A1, A3, A7, B1, B2, B3, B5, B7 by Richard Dyer-Bennet] [stampers 33-1833-1 16-3 9- / 33-1834-1 16-3 9-61] FOLK SONGS by Richard Dyer Bennet A1 Lord Randall A2 Kitty, My Love A3 The Rising Of The Moon A4 The Wife Wrapt In Sheepskin A5 My Good Old Man A6 Lowlands A7 John Henry B1 The Golden Vanity B2 Greensleeves B3 Bonnie Dundee B4 Binnorie B5 The Laird O'Cockpen B6 The Lonesome Dove B7 The Kerry Recruit some listings show 2 additional songs The White Lily (side A, after Lord Randall) Pull Off Your Old Coat (side B, after Bonnie Dundee) Remington REP-1 7" 45rpm EP picture sleeve Lord Randall The wife wrapt in sheepskin My good old man John Henry VOX ep POSSIBLY from Remington session Vox Records #VIP 30,120 Richard Dyer-Bennet 1953 7"-EP picture sleeve The Ash Grove, The Bold Fennian Men David of the White Rock Bonny Earl of Murray. Theatre Masterworks/Continental GRC 7804 2-12" LP [1952?] AN EVENING WITH WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE Staats Cotsworth, Eva Le Gallienne, Arnold Moss, Faye Emerson, Dion Allen, Wesley Addy, Nina Foch, Berthe Fleurus, Claude Rains, Frederick Rolf, Leueen MacGrath, actors; Richard Dyer-Bennett, singer ; Margaret Webster, director, narrator. "These recordings are based on the original performance given by this cast in Hartford, Conn., on Dec. 5th, 1952." Program and biographical notes inserted in container. Contents Introduction -- song -- Merchant of Venice, Act 1, scene 2 -- King Henry V, Act 5, scene 2 -- King Chard II, from Act 3, scene 2, Act 4, scene 1, Act 5, scene 2 -- narration -- Twelfth night, from Act 1, scene 5, Act 2, scene 2 -- songs -- Macbeth, Act 1, scene 3 -- narration -- Macbeth, from Act 1, scene 7, Act 2, scene 1 and 2, Act 5, scene 1 and 5 -- Epilogue from The tempest, Act 4, scene 1 -- narration. The Stinson LPs ---------------- 10" issue early 1950's 12" issue early 1960's * SLP35 and SLP60 12" have extra tracks Everest/Archive FM-103/FS-203 is reissue of 12"-SLP 35 STINSON SLP 2 THE 20th CENTURY MINSTREL Richard-Dyer Bennet 10" & 12" A1 BLOW THE CANDLES OUT (English Folk Song) A2 VENEZUELA (Barbados Sailor Song) A3 THE FROG AND THE MOUSE (English Folk Song) A4 LITTLE PIGS (English Folk Song) A5 MOLLY MALONE (Irish FOlk Song) B1 TWO MAIDENS WENT MILKING ONE DAY (English Folk Song) B2 AS I WAS GOING TO BALLYNURE (Irish Folk Song) B3 WESTRON WYNDE (English Traditional) B4 JOHN PEEL(John W. Graves) (Traditional Tune) B5 BRIGG FAIR (English Traditional) B6 EDDYSTONE LIGHT (Comic Sailor Song) Stinson SLP 35 BALLADS Richard Dyer-Bennett 10" & 12"* Everest/Archive of Folk Music FM-103/FS-203 Richard Dyer-Bennett 12" LP 1965 10" 12" A1 SPANISH IS A LOVING TONGUE A2 GENTLY JOHNNY MY JINGALO A3 I ONCE LOVED A GIRL A4 JOHN HENRY A5 GREENSLEEVES B1 BARBARA ALLEN B2 THE THREE RA-ENS (Part I) B3 THE THREE RA-ENS (Part II) B4 THE DEVIL AND THE FARMER'S WIFE STINSON SLP 60 more songs by the 20th century minstrel RICHARD DYER-BENNET 10" & 12"* LP 10" 12" A1 THE THREE TAILORS A2 SONG OF REPROACH(Minnelied) A3 COLORADO TRAIL A4 QUAKER LOVER A5 COME ALL YE A6 WHERE TO (Schubert) A7 EGGS & MARROW BONE B1 THE CHARLESTON MERCHANT B2 MOONRISE B3 SECRET LOVE B4 BLUE MOUNTAIN LAKE B5 THE LASS FROM THE LOW COUNTRY B6 EARLY ONE MORNING B7 SWAPPING SONG STINSON RECORDS SLP 61 A RICHARD DYER-BENNET CONCERT - FOLK SONGS and BALLADS 10" & 12" LP A1 Phyllis and Her Mother A2 Old Bangum A3 Oh No John A4 The Leprechaun A5 Lord Randal B1 The Ghost of Basel B2 Jan Hinnerk B3 The Three Rogues B4 Lincolnshire Poachers B4 Cockle Shells ====================================================================================================== Dyer-Bennet Records (founded 1955 with Harvey Cort) Dyer-Bennet Records L8OH. RICHARD DYER-BENNET 7"-45rpm 195? Greensleeves John Henry Joys of Love Lonesome Valley 1000 Richard Dyer-Bennet #1 Smithsonian-Folkways CD SFCD 40078 Oft in the Stilly Night Molly Branigan Down by the Sally Gardens The Bold Fenian Men Three Fishers Richard The Bonnie Earl of Morey Fine Flowers in the Valley The Vicar of Bray So We'll Go No More A-Roving Phyllis and Her Mother The Joys of Love I'm a Poor Boy Pull Off Your Old Coat Down in the Valley Pedro The Lonesome Valley 2000 RICHARD DYER-BENNET 2 (yellow cover) 1956 Smithsonian Folkways CD SFW 40142 1 When Cockleshells Turn Silverbells 2 Corn Rigs Are Bonnie 3 The Garden Where the Praties Grow 4 The Bailiff's Daughter of Islington 5 Two Maidens Went Milking 6 Who Killed Cock Robin? 7 Veillée de Noël 8 Jan Hinnerk 9 Woman! Go Home! 10 Blow the Candles Out 11 Eggs and Marrowbone 12 The Beggar Man 13 The Turkish Revery 3000 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Vol. 3 1956 The Lady's Policy Dinah and Villikens Fain I Would Wed Willie Taylor Charlie is My Lilli Burlero The Beloved Kitten Spottlied Auf Napoleons Ruckzug Aus Russland The Lass from the Low Country The Swapping Song House Carpenter The Lady Who Loved a Swine Go Down Moses 4000 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Vol. 4 1957 A May Day Carol The Rising of the Moon The Kerry Recruit Searching for Lambs The Bonnets of Bonnie Dundee The Spanish Lady in Dublin City The Three Ra-ens (The Three Ravens) Song of Reproach Jag Vill Gå Vall The Three Tailors The Swagman The Foggy Foggy Dew The Fox Drill, Ye Tarriers, Drill DYB-5000 Requests 1958 Smithsonian Folkways CD SFW 40143 SDBY 5000-5764 1. Greensleeves 2. The Golden Vanity 3. The White Lily 4. Lord Rendal 5. Westryn Wynde 6. Barbara Allen 7. Venezuela 8. The Quaker Lover 9. John Henry 10. Spanish is the Loving Tongue 11. I Ride An Old Paint 12. Edward 6000 with young people in mind Smithsonian Folkways CD SFW 45053 rel.Jan 25, 2000 1. Come All Ye 2. Old Bangum 3. Three Jolly Rogues Of Lynn 4. Aunt Rhody 5. Frog Went A-Courtin' 6. John Peel 7. Leprechaun, The 8. Piper Of Dundee, The 9. Bow Down 10. Tailor And The Mouse, The 11. I Went Out One Morning In May 12. Green Corn 13. Buckeye Jim 14. Little Pigs 15. Three Craw 16. Hole In The Bottom Of The Sea, The 7000 Beethoven Scottish and Irish Songs 1958 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Natasha Magg, Urico Rossi, Fritz Magg, Faithfu' Johnie On the Massacre of Glencoe Bonnie Laddie, Highland Laddie Sunset The Lovely Lass of Inverness The Pulse of an Irishman Once More I Hail Thee Morning a Cruel Turmoiler Is The Morning Air Plays on My Face The Return to Ulster Oh, Who My Dear Dermot Again My Lyre 8000 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Vol. 8 1959 The Agincourt Song Come Live with Me Come Away, Death I Care Not for These Ladies Flow, My Tears All in a Garden Green Henry Martin All mein Gedanken Die bekehrte Schäferin Kränzelkraut Jagdabenteuer Warnung Le Brave Marin Aminte 9000 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Vol. 9 1960 The Laird o' Cockpen The Two Sisters of Binnorie Early One Morning The Pride of Petravore Gently, Johnny, My Jingalo The British Light Dragoons Schneiders Höllenfahrt Der Tod von Basel Le Joli Tambour The Buffalo Skinners John Riley The Cherry Tree Carol Dyer-Bennet Records DYBX 2 Aksel Schiøtz, baritone; Paul Ulanowsky, piano (1st-4th, 8th, 16th works) ; Richard Dyer-Bennet, guitar. Recorded Aug. 1960, Temple of Music, South Mountain, Pittsfield MA. Program notes by Richard Dyer-Bennet on container; texts with English translations ([6] p.) inserted. FRANZ SCHUBERT: Liebesbotschaft ; Ganymed ; Der Wanderer an den Mond ; An die Laute CARL MICHAEL BELLMAN: Fredman's epistles, no. 25 ; Blåsen nu alla! ; Fredman's song, no. 31 ; HUGO WOLF: Heb auf dein blondes Haupt ; Der Tambour ; Verschwiegene Liebe ; Auf dem grünen Balkon ; Anakreons GrabJOHANNES BRAHMS: An die Nachtigal ; Salamander ; Im Waldeseimsamkeit ; Mein Mädel. DYB-1601 Mark Twain's 1601 with Songs in the same spirit 1962 "1601" OLD JOE CLARK THE OLD SHE CRAB THE TAILOR'S BOY THE EERIE CANAL - THERE WAS A FRIAR IN OUR TOWN THE GATHERIN' OF THE CLAN. Dyer-Bennet Records #10. 1962 recorded live at the Temple of Music, South Mountain, Pittsfield, Massachusetts The Lincolnshire Poacher Lowlands I Once Loved a Girl She Moved thro' the Fair The Seven Little Pigs O Speak then my Love Le Veritable Amour The Unfortunate Troubadour The Reaper's Ghost Two Comments Go 'way old Man The Wife Rapped in Wether's Skin My Good Old Man No Hiding Place. 11 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Vol. 11 STEPHEN FOSTER 1962 Linger in Blissful Repose Gentle Annie Come with Thy Sweet Voice Again If You've Only Got a Moustache Jeanie with the Light Brown Hair For Thee, Love, for Thee Ah! May the Red Rose Live Alway! Beautiful Dreamer Sweetly She Sleeps, My Alice Fair There Are Plenty of Fish in the Sea Open Thy Lattice, Love Come Where My Love Lies Dreaming 12 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Vol. 12 1964 SONGS OF SHIPS, SEAFARING MEN, WATERY GRAVES, CARD SHARPERS, GIANT RAM, and INDIAN SCALPING and ONE EDIBLE RAT. Shallow Brown The Drunken Sailor The Eddystone Light Hullabaloo Belay The Mermaid The Willow Tree The Charleston Merchant Peter Gray The Roving Gambler Billy Barlow Australian Girls Hanging Johnny The Derby Ram Plain Language from Truthful James 13 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Vol. 13 1964 STORIES AND SONGS FOR CHILDREN AND THEIR PARENTS The Soldier and the Lady The Tale of the Tales/The Man Who Was Full of Fun The King of the Noise The Devil and the Farmer's Wife The Old Gray Goose The Wolf Who Was a Friend The Fox and the Geese September, 1976 Temple of Music, Pittsfield, MA, USA Dyer-Bennet records LP 33674-33675 2-12" LP 1978 THE LOVELY MILLERESS (Schubert: Die schöne Müllerin, D795) Richard Dyer-Bennet (Tenor), Nancy Garniez (Pianoforte) translation by Richard Dyer-Bennet. Vanguard Twofers VSD-95/96 The ESSENTIAL RICHARD DYER-BENNET (c)1977 Vanguard Recording Society notes by Richard Dyer-Bennet, 1976 Vanguard Classics(Omega) OVC 6007 (CD) The ART OF RICHARD DYER-BENNET released 1991/1993 ?? from Dyer-Bennet Records 1955-1965 A1 1 Blow THe Candles Out A2 2 Down By The Sally Gardens (words: W.B.Yeats) A3 3 The Lonesome valley A4 4 Come All Ye A5 5 The Bonnie Earl of Morey A6 6 Pull Off Your Old Coat A7 7 John Peel B1 8 The Swapping Song B2 9 Venezuela (arr.J.J.Niles) B3 10 The Lass from The Low Country (arr.J.J.Niles) B4 11 The Devil, and the Farmer's Wife B6 12 Hanging Johnny B6 13 The Drunken Sailor B7 14 Westryn Wynde C1 15 The Soldier and the Lady C2 16 Greensleeves C3 17 Two Maidens Wnet Milking C4 18 Molly Brannigan C5 19 The Leprechaun C6 20 Peter Gray C7 21 Hullabaloo Belay D1 22 Eggs and Marrowbone D2 23 Who Killed Cock Robin? D3 24 Phyllis and Her Mother D4 25 Edward D5 26 The Garden Where the Praties Grow D6 27 So We'll Go No More A-Roving(Dyer-Bennet-Lord Byron) Longines Symphonette Recording Society / Vanguard LONGINES LWS-176-181 6-12" LP box The 50 Greatest Folk Singers: Legendary Folk Songs LWS-181 record 5 B3 Lord Randall Smithsonian RD 046-1 Folk song America I: a 20th century revival produced in association with Sony Music Special Products, (p)1991 Greensleeves (Richard Dyer-Bennet) 2:28 - source ?????????????????????????????????????????? A PROGRAM OF DRAMATIC DECLAMATION OF THREE EXCERPTS FROM Robert Fitzgerald translation of HOMER'S THE ODYSSEY. 1 sound tape reel. 1979. Library of Congress. THE ODYSSEY TAPES. 3/4" videocassette. 1980. Research Foundation, SUNY/the Arts on TV. 1/2" 30 min VHS videocassette sd., col. ; , Museum of Modern Art, New York NY produced and directed by Susan Fanshel and Jill Godmilow. Photographed by Jeri Sopanen ; sound by Lee Orloff. Notes: Richard Dyer-Bennet. Summary: The Great concert artist Richard Dyer-Bennet recites some of the lines of Robert Fitzgerald's translation of Homer's Odyssey. He has set himself an ingenious challenge : to record the entire ancient poem in all its epic length and beauty-in the spoken form in which the world first heard the tale, three millennia ago. He discusses his preparation for this project, including his personal ideas and feelings about the poem and how it should best be rendered vocally with incidental musical accompaniment. For sale ($225.00) or rent ($90.00) |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Stringsinger Date: 24 Jun 08 - 06:30 PM RDB was a counter-tenor. He referred to himself as a Twentieth Century Minstrel, like the early troubadours. My favorite rendition was his "The Bonnie Earl of Morey" which was the best version of this song that I've heard. This is the song that spawned the term "Mondegreen". "They took the Bonnie Earl of Morey and laid him (mondegreen) on the green." Leadbelly was a fan of his. His performance of John Henry was considered to be funny. It wasn't his style. I think he had a beautiful voice in the tradition of the Early Music counter-tenors such as Russell Oberlin and Alfred Deller. It's an acquired taste. He ran a school of folk music in Aspen Colorado in the late Forties and Ray de la Torre taught guitar there. He may have been the folk stylist to first incorporate arpeggios ala Carcassi, (a classical guitarist) and I believe he was the first to integrate classical guitar into the folk song idiom. William Clausen (I think that was his name) was a follower of Dyer-Bennet. They both presented formal concerts in tuxes. (I think for Columbia Artists but I'm not sure) Joan Baez owes him (perhaps unwittingly) for the arpeggiated guitar styles found in accompaniment to Anglo-American ballads by interpreters (not in the rough folk "tradition"). As I recall, Dyer-Bennet played a rosewood classical guitar and used classical technique for his accompaniments. It would be unfair to compare his stylistic renditions with traditional folk singers. He was an interpreter (and quite musical, unlike many "folkies" you might hear today). He was the last of that kind of singer like Susan Reed, Josh White and of course Burl Ives who had training in Schubert Lieder from a Metropolitan Opera vocal coach. You might want to listen comparatively to John Jacob Niles and then Dyer-Bennet. It's almost oranges and apples but oddly enough, the same concert approach was employed. Frank Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 24 Jun 08 - 07:08 PM Leadbelly and Dyer-Bennet did several joint performances together in the 1940's. I wish I had access to a time machine so I could listen to what they created together. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: fox4zero Date: 24 Jun 08 - 08:56 PM Around the time I was a medical student (ca.1954)I came upon a copy of his recordings on a Remington 33 1/3, at Sam Goody. I then discovered that he was performing in Carnegie Hall (I believe) and my wife and I went to the concert. It was really quite a spectacle: he wore formal attire....white tie and tails. He sang in the style of a "trained" voice, much like Buell Kazee. The image is one that has been in my mind's eye ever since then, and I sing the songs aloud (when no one is within hearing) which is easy now that I live in "horse country". He sang "You've Got to Cross that Lonesome Valley" which caused chills up my spine, "The Rising of the Moon", "Bonnie Dundee", "Mi Amour Mi Coresso" (much more beautiful than my phonetic Spanish), "The Woman Wrapped in Sheepskin", "Gentle Johnny", "The Laird of Cockpen". I just amazed myself by remembering all those titles....I guess the neurons are still firing on all 8 cylinders, give or take six or seven. I have no recall of his being blacklisted. I do remember Pete Seegher's concerts being cancelled at Brooklyn College, but were moved over to Columbia University....blacklisted at a public college! Larry Parish |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 08 - 09:53 PM Our local public library had two of the Stinson LPs of RDB - it was from them that I learned Molly Brannigan, Down by the Sally Gardens, and So We'll Go No More a Rovin' His voice is/was an acquired taste, but his musicianship was excellent - you could clearly understand the words, and the guitar accompaniment always enhanced the singing. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: dick greenhaus Date: 24 Jun 08 - 09:55 PM Minor point-- RDB was a lyric tenor, not a countertenor. Alfred Deller was a countertenor. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 24 Jun 08 - 10:18 PM Exactly so, Dick. I don't normally disagree with anything Frank Hamilton says, but I must in this case. Richard Dyer-Bennet is not a countertenor. Here are two examples of the legendary Alfred Deller: CLICKY #1 and CLICKY #2 And a third countertenor, Ian Howell. Richard Dyer-Bennet's voice is high, yes, but its quality is somewhat fuller than that of a countertenor's voice, and he sings in a lower range. His range is the same as that of a lyric tenor, whereas the countertenor range is the same as that of an contralto (the lowest female voice). I was not able to find any videos of Dyer-Bennet and the only sound clips I could find were brief samples from some of his records. Unfortunately, I was unable to link to them, but HERE's a link to the site where I found them. Scroll down for the sound samples and click on the arrows in the left-hand column. His voice qualifies as a light "lyric tenor" or what singing teachers of the Italian school would refer to as a "tenorino" or "small tenor." This contrasts with the full-voiced operatic lyric tenor voice of someone like Juan Diego Florez Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 25 Jun 08 - 10:10 AM Evidently the original link to Dyer-Bennet's page at Smithsonian Folkways has gone dead. Here's a new one: click here for website The "1601" CD is currently offered for sale. In fact all the recordings produced by Dyer-Bennet appear to be offered for sale. There are also MP3 samples of each track. One recording that remains a favorite of mine is No. 13 which features Dyer-Bennet's masterful storytelling, as he recites translations of traditional Georgian folk tales such as "The Man Who Was Full of Fun" and "The King of the Noise." You may want to review these stories before playing them for children given that some shocking things happen to characters that do not ordinarily happen (on screen) to Disney characters, or not! As a favorite uncle, Dyer-Bennet was indeed "a man who was full of fun"! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Severn Date: 25 Jun 08 - 03:12 PM A recent find in my scrounging of local yard sales, library sales and flea markets is the 1953 Remington LP (RLP 199-34), which indeed contains the two additional tunes alluded to in the discography cited above. The four-color front cover is red, white, black and yellow and has drawings and has drawings of a Scottish Highlander, an English town crier and an American pilgrim couple. The back cover has no liner notes, but instead a listing of Remington releases and critics' praising of the Remington label itself. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 25 Jun 08 - 03:35 PM Richard Dyer-Bennet went to high school in Germany (pre-Hitler—late 1920s, I believe), where he picked up some German folk songs from fellow students and learned a few chords on the guitar. Some years later, he was singing at a party in San Francisco where voice teacher Gertrude Wheeler Beckman heard him, was impressed by the quality of his voice, and told him about the Swedish lute-singer, Sven Scholander. Dyer-Bennet studied voice with her for some time, then scraped his nickels together and, in 1935, went to Sweden to meet Scholander. This is an excellent web page about Richard Dyer-Bennet: HERE. And an excellent article, well worth reading in its entirety. Another good article in Folkworks. Click HERE (this is a pdf file) and scroll down to page 14. In his very early performances he used a lute, like Scholander's, but then decided that the classic guitar was more versatile for the range of songs he wanted to sing. He used a guitar made by Vicente Tatay for many years, then in the 1950s he got a Manuel Velasquez. Both were fine concert quality instruments (my own classic guitar teacher, Edward Hern, owned a Velasquez). Some of his accompaniments, such as his accompaniment to "The Joys of Love" (Richard Dyer-Bennet Records #1), were the finest blends of voice and classic guitar I have ever heard. I've had the good fortune to hear Dyer-Bennet in concert several times, and on a couple of occasions, I had a chance to chat with him. When I first met him in 1957(?), he was very friendly and encouraging of my ambitions and efforts. A unique artist and a very nice guy. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 25 Jun 08 - 03:44 PM I found a 12"LP with Tom Glazer on one side and RDB on the other. Title was ...."....sings Olden Ballads" Mercury Long-playing records MG 20007. Paper cover Listed at this site as from 195x. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 25 Jun 08 - 05:20 PM I also have the Remington LP 3 of the 4 Stinson 10" LPs and the Decca 10" Decca Album A-573 (24209-24212) |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Thomas Stern Date: 25 Jun 08 - 10:17 PM Anyone with a copy of the REMINGTON or CONTINENTAL LP, please let me know if the following songs are included, and if they are separately banded and listed on the label: The White Lily (side A, after Lord Randall) Pull Off Your Old Coat (side B, after Bonnie Dundee Thanks! Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 25 Jun 08 - 10:36 PM Many people were quite surprised at how friendly Dyer-Bennet was off-stage, given how formal he was in his concert presentations. He was a very warm and witty person and concerned about world affairs as well as music, and always willing to give advice to serious students. He was not terribly tolerant of fools or despots. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Severn Date: 25 Jun 08 - 10:41 PM As I stated previously upscroll, those two cuts ARE on the Remington LP. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Barbara Date: 26 Jun 08 - 02:55 AM Ah, Charlie, I ordered it special order when I was in college, but apparently not when I was hanging out with you and the gang, when I lived in New Community, and you all in that house nearby where the boiler blew up. I can still taste (and breathe fire) that Ethiopian stew you made. But I'm pretty sure I ordered 1601 When I lived on Center Street. 1967 maybe? 68? When did you get back from the Peace Corps? Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Severn Date: 26 Jun 08 - 09:02 AM I retract what I said after playing the newly aquired LP for only the second time and paying more attention. The two songs are listed on the label of the LP but there are only 14 rather than 16 cuts on it. I apologize for believing the label. My first listen was while working around the house. God and Remington only know where the missing two cuts are. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Jun 08 - 09:14 AM Severn- Ugh! My uncle would not be amused either. Barbara- I arrived back from the Peace Corps in the fall of 1968, to enroll in a graduate program at Michigan State University. And, yes, the Ethiopian stew was and remains fiery hot. However the furnace in our old rooming house did not blow up; it simply died and all our eloquent and legal protests could not persuade the landlord to replace it. I'll check and see what old RDB records my mother has in her inventory tomorrow and report back. I seem to remember an album of 78 rpms. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 26 Jun 08 - 11:01 AM On my copy of the Remington LP....RLP-199-34, those two songs ARE included. I had not played it in ages, since it suffers from "Old LP played with worn needles syndrome" (lots of of pops & crackles)...but doesn't seem to skip. (I am not the original owner...found it in a bookstore a few years ago) |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 26 Jun 08 - 11:27 AM And...for Thomas Stern. The songs The White Lily (side A, after Lord Randall) Pull Off Your Old Coat (side B, after Bonnie Dundee) are listed on the record label and play as listed...in order. There is NO listing on the album cover...only on the record itself. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 27 Jun 08 - 04:44 PM Thomas- Here's what I dug up for older recordings from Dyer-Bennet's sister-in-law Dahlov Ipcar. One you reference above but don't include the tracks: DECCA DLP 5046 10"-LP 1949 RICHARD DYER-BENNETT (SIC) TWENTIETH CENTURY MINSTREL - TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF ANCIENT TIMES! A-1 The Devil and the Farmer's Wife A-2 Eggs and Marrowbone A-3 The Willow Tree A-4 Villikens and His Dinah B-1 Swapping Song B-2 The Old Maid B-3 Early One Morning B-4 Greensleeves B-5 Oh Sally My Dear Asch Records #461, 78 rpm, Stimpson Trading Company, No Date RICHARD DYER-BENNET: Ballads 461-1A Barbara Allen 461-1B I Once Loved a Girl 461-2A The Three Ra'ens, Part I 461-2B The Three Ra'ens, Part II 461-3A John Henry 461-3B Gently Johnny! Keynote Recordings, Album No. 108, New York City, No Date but cover shows him playing lute RICHARD DYER-BENNET: Lute Singer, Ballads and Folk Songs 108-1 The Golden vanity 108-2 The Lincolnshire Poacher, The Derby Ram 108-3 The Swag Man 108-4 The House Carpenter 108-5 The Charlston Merchant 108-6 Hullabaloo Belay, What Shall We Do with a Drunken Sailor Happy to clarify any of the above. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 27 Jun 08 - 04:58 PM Thomas- After re-checking the discography that you posted above it is evident that you have included all the records that I listed. Perhaps the Decca DLP 5046 track information will be helpful. My uncle was not pleased that they misspelled his last name on this album. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: BK Lick Date: 27 Jun 08 - 06:05 PM Frank wrote: "They took the Bonnie Earl of Morey and laid him (mondegreen) on the green."The full mondegreen is, of course, "laid him on the green" heard as "Lady Mondegreen." —BK |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: GUEST,JTT Date: 27 Jun 08 - 06:21 PM Lovely voice, crystal-clear diction. Played a sample from The Quaker Lover, and want to know what happens next. It starts: Once there was a Quaker lover Courted a Prez-bye-terian's daughter Oh dear, oh dear me Here's a ring cost many a shilling Oh dear, oh dear me Take it and wear it if thou art willing... Now I'm on tenterhooks. What did the Prez-bye-terian's daughter say to her swain? I never believed there was a folk song with *no* entry in the Digitrad! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE QUAKER LOVER From: GUEST,JTT Date: 27 Jun 08 - 06:28 PM Hm, the wonders of the Internet - found a version here: Verse 1: Man Once there was a Quaker lover, O dear, O dear me, Courted by a Presbyterian's daughter, O dear, O dear me. 'Here's a ring worth many a shilling, O dear, O dear me, Take it and wear it, if thou art willing, O dear, O dear me.' Woman – 'What do I care for you and your money? Tee-I-dinktum, tee-I-day, Want a man to call me honey, Tee-I-dinktum, tee-I-day.' Verse 2: Man – 'Madam, I have both home and land, and both shall be at thy command.' Woman – 'What do I care for your home and land? All I want's a handsome man.' Verse 3: Man- 'Madam, I have come a-courtin', 'Tis not for pleasure, nor for sportin'.' Woman – 'What do I care for your desire? If you come, you'll court the fire.' Verse 4: Man – 'I'll go home and tell my mother, She'll go straight and find me another.' Woman – 'What do I care for you and your mother? She's an old Quaker and you're another.' Verse 5: Man – 'Must I give up my religion? Must I be a Presbyterian?' Woman – 'Cheer up, cheer up, loving brother, If you can't catch one fish, catch another.' |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Stringsinger Date: 27 Jun 08 - 07:04 PM A trained countertenor will typically have a vocal center similar in placement to that of a contralto or mezzo-soprano. This would be about RDB's range. He could be easily confused with a contralto or mezzo. I think the tenorino would be of a lower tessitura. Top notes for a tenor's working range would be around E above middle C going sometimes to G and Ab. RDB went higher than that. Frank Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Stringsinger Date: 27 Jun 08 - 07:08 PM Here's a determining question. Did Dyer-Bennet speak as a tenor or a baritone/bass? |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 27 Jun 08 - 07:35 PM Ah, SO! Cut and pasted from Charley's post above: DECCA DLP 5046 10"-LP 1949 RICHARD DYER-BENNETT (SIC) TWENTIETH CENTURY MINSTREL - TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF ANCIENT TIMES! A-1 The Devil and the Farmer's Wife A-2 Eggs and Marrowbone A-3 The Willow Tree A-4 Villikens and His Dinah B-1 Swapping Song B-2 The Old Maid B-3 Early One Morning B-4 Greensleeves B-5 Oh Sally My Dear This was one of the first records of folk music I bought back in 1952 and from it, I learned some of the first songs I sang—and still sing. I do a somewhat different version of "The Devil and the Farmer's Wife" ("The Farmer's Curst Wife," which I learned later from an Andrew Rowan Summers record), and I added a couple of judiciously selected verses to the one verse of "Greensleeves" that Dyer-Bennet sings. I didn't learn "The Old Maid." My record also lists B-5 as "Oh Sally My Dear," but it's actually "The Sally Gardens," the Yeats poem set to music. I also have the "Olden Ballads" record with Tom Glaser on the flip-side, three or four (?) of the Stinson records, and #1 through #6 and #8 through #10 of the Richard Dyer-Bennet label. These—and a three and a half foot stack of other vinyl records—I want to start transferring to CDs. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Thomas Stern Date: 27 Jun 08 - 08:13 PM Decca DL 5046 (10"-LP): This is a reissue of the original 78rpm album (A-573) BOTH "The Old Maid", and "Early One Morning" were issued on Decca 78rpm record 24211-Side B. On the 10" LP, my data indicates they were together on one track - so even though there are 5 songs, there are only 4 tracks on the actual disc. Please let me know if this is incorrect (i.e. there are 5 tracks on the disc). Thanks, Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 27 Jun 08 - 08:23 PM Thomas- There are only four tracks on the Side 2 of Decca DL 5046. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 27 Jun 08 - 08:32 PM Maybe that's why I didn't learn "The Old Maid." It doesn't seem to be there! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Bill D Date: 27 Jun 08 - 09:45 PM I agree..4 tracks on side 2 of Decca DLP-5046, with The Old Maid-Early One Morning listed together. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Charley Noble Date: 28 Jun 08 - 11:26 AM Thomas- One of the odd records I turned up stashed in with an album of old 78's was one labeled Rockhill Recordings. On Side 1 the tracks are "The Tailor & the Mouse," "Buckeye Jim," and "The Fox & the Geese" ("The Fox Went Out on a Chilly Night"); Side 2 has three tracks but the label has vanished and I don't have a player at hand that works for 78's. The record blank was manufactured by Presto (the underlying label) and oddly has 4 holes, one in the center and three others in orbit. This record may be a demo. I really would be interested in seeing the lyrics of the songs Dyer-Bennet composed during World War 2 for the Office of War Information. Topical songs are not what people generally associate with Dyer-Bennet and he evidently composed several dozen of them. I only have access to the one I posted earlier in this thread. They may not have enduring value but I am curious about them. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jun 08 - 11:07 PM The training of a countertenor voice involves developing the falsetto range and attempting to bring some chest resonance up into that range to fill it out. A bass or baritone with a particularly good falsetto range (which does not include me) can opt to attempt to become a countertenor. The incentive is that there is a fair number of basses and baritones around, but a good countertenor is pretty rare and much sought after. Especially rare is a natural countertenor, a male whose voice didn't actually change at puberty. I've been acquainted with two countertenors in my checkered career. One was Peter Hallock, music director and soloist at St. Marks's Episcopal Cathedral in Seattle, now retired. The other was a student at the University of Washington School of Music, whose name I can't recall. He attended a few folk song fests in the late 1950s and sang several English folk songs, a cappella, in that rather eerie falsetto of his. It was at about this same time that I first heard the Alfred Deller Consort at the U. of W. Both of the countertenors I was acquainted with were from England. And considering their singing voices, their speaking voices were surprisingly low. While learning songs from Dyer-Bennet's recordings, I have compared his range with my own, to determine, first, the key he sang a song in (checking the high and low notes), then, on the basis of my own high and low notes, decided what key I would need to do the song in. So I became quite familiar with Dyer-Bennet's range. He's right within the range of the lyric tenor, or possibly the leggiero tenor (a smidgen higher). On the two occasions when I saw him in person, when on stage, he spoke as well as sang, giving "program notes" on the songs, and in conversation with him afterwards, his speaking voice was that of other tenors I am acquainted with. Probably more than anyone wants to know about the countertenor voice. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennett From: Don Firth Date: 28 Jun 08 - 11:19 PM Range is not the only determinant. I propose a simple test: listen to a recording of Richard Dyer-Bennet, and then a recording of Alfred Deller (in any order) and compare the voice quality. I think you'll note that they are distinctly different. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 15 Aug 08 - 05:58 AM The discussions on the voice type of Dyer-Bennet should consider the period after he started studying with Cornelius Reid. His work with Reid strengthened his chest register, making his voice bigger and increasing his range. He also practiced speaking using more of his chest register. I believe the only recording he made with this different voice is his The Lovely Milleress. (Where can this be obtained? Is this on CD now?) His new voice can probably also be heard on the Odyssey Tapes. (I have never watched the Odyssey tapes but I watched his first performance of Odysseus Returns Home at SUNY Stony Brook.) By the way, he was a bit impatient with attempts to categorize his voice(which was sometimes described as "effeminate"). He preferred his credits to read: Richard Dyer-Bennet, voice (similar to: Nancy Garniez, piano). Somewhere in the discography above he is described simply as: Richard Dyer-Bennet, singer. He chose to rework his voice not because he wanted to change from being a countertenor or lyric tenor to any other vocal category, but because he felt he could not give justice to his songs unless he had full use of his voice (what Reid called "full-throated singing"). |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stringsinger Date: 15 Aug 08 - 05:18 PM I may have mentioned this previously, but I think he does the best version of "The Bonny Earl of Moray" (of Mondegreen fame) that I have heard. Frank |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Bill D Date: 15 Aug 08 - 06:18 PM Indeed, Frank! What he does with the guitar on that song is amazing, too. I feel like I'm watching the execution....and like I can see his 'lady' looking out the castle window for him. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Aug 08 - 07:18 PM Edwin, are you going to stick around Mudcat, or was this a one-time visit? Interesting information. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 16 Aug 08 - 06:03 AM I second that, and would love to see further input from Edwin. I wonder if he is the Edwin Decenteceo who is praised in the following review of a production of O'Neill's The Iceman Cometh: "Harry Hope was played very effectively by Edwin Decenteceo who has a wonderful voice, and was effective throughout." (In fact the whole review is an interesting, well-written read - clickie below.) Whether you're the same Edwin or not, it's great to hear from you. Come back soon - http://www.eoneill.com/reviews/iceman_black.htm |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 16 Aug 08 - 09:09 AM Yes, I did Iceman Cometh. Dyer-Bennet told me this story about The Earl of Morey. He knew the poem and thought it would make a great ballad but he knew of no melody for it. So he never sang it. Then one day, an old lady, a friend of his, asked him to listen to a recording of a Scottish bagpipe band (I'm not sure what you call these groups). One march for bagpipes was called the Earl of Morey March. Dyer-Bennet knew at once that it was the music he was looking for. He went home and worked out the accompaniment for guitar complete with drones. Five days later he performed it in public for the first time (at some well known music festival that I can't remember). Doesn't this story mean that the song is not a folk song; that it was Dyer-Bennet who first matched tune and words and guitar accompaniment? I knew Dyer-Bennet at Stony Brook from the early 70s until he retired. He was a great story teller. Hence, he wanted to re-tell Homer's stories using the words of Fitzgerald. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 16 Aug 08 - 06:02 PM Edwin- That a very interesting story about where the melody for the Bonny Earl of Murray came from. I've never heard that one before, and I think I'll share it with my mother, Dyer-Bennet's sister-in-law. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 17 Aug 08 - 09:31 AM Charley- I've met Melvene Dyer-Bennet. I attended a movement workshop at their place in Manhattan. I also was privileged to visit their house at Monterrey, Mass. Played tennis at his court; was his doubles partner for a game or two. (This is not to say that I play tennis well.) I should correct myself. I left Stony Brook in 1978. Dyer-Bennet stayed on for a few more years. The music festival I think was Tanglewood. Dyer-Bennet told me once that he sang five nights straight at a festival (maybe Tanglewood) and did not repeat a song. He knew so many songs. About his voice. His voice teacher, probably Gertrude Wheeler Beckman, was aware that Dyer-Bennet's chest register was weak. She tried to correct it. One method was recounted to me by Dyer-Bennet but which Ms. Beckman tried on someone else who also had a weak chest register. She had the guy pick up one end of her grand piano--he was an athlete anyway--and vocalize. I can still see Dyer-Bennet's face as it turned red from laughter as he described the futility of the exercise while he imitated the weak sound that the poor fellow continued to make. Dyer-Bennet also consulted Paul Moses, a laryngeologist. (Moses wrote The Voice of Neurosis, on the relationship of the voice to psychological traits and states.) After several examinations and tests Moses told him: "You are using only the top half of your voice." Dyer-Bennet replied: "I know that. What can I do about it?" Moses replied: "I don't know." A few years later Dyer-Bennet met and studied with Cornelius Reid. In his fifties, Dyer-Bennet was willing to rework his voice to give justice to his art. Edwin |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 17 Aug 08 - 09:58 AM Edwin- Dyer-Bennet was always sad that Pete Seeger wouldn't follow his advice with regard to voice therapy, when Seeger mentioned to him that he was experiencing vocal problems in the early 1980's. Melvene, Dyer-Bennet's wife, practiced for years as a dance therapist in her studio in Manhattan. She was an up and coming modern dancer in the early 1940's when she took a bad fall during a photo shoot, which curtailed her dancing career. But she continued to use her training to help others. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 25 Aug 08 - 02:03 PM refresh |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Aug 08 - 12:05 AM What later recordings are there that might show this "reworked" voice? Can you recommend one? I inherited the words to a lot of songs but I'm not a singer, not familiar with the mechanics of the voice--what is a "weak chest register?" Is this an anatomical flaw, or a psychological impediment? Is it a result of childhood illness, perhaps pleurisy as a child (that's being a bit sarcastic, but who knows?) or insufficient lung capacity? He did smoke, didn't he? It was a shock to learn that. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: dick greenhaus Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:47 AM RDB was one of those who necer really recorded well, even on his own record label. In person he was breathtaking. I will never forget him singing a passage pianissimo in Town Hall (I was in the balcony) and hearing every word. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Aug 08 - 10:54 AM I was a small child when my parents took my brother and I to hear him. I think it might have been during the Seattle World's Fair, or shortly after. It was memorable. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,John From Elsie`s Band Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:08 AM Dear Charley Noble, I have a book entitled "Richard Dyer-Bennet...The 20th Century Minstrel". It was published by LEEDS MUSIC CORP. stating 1946 copyright and costing $1.25. There is a song in it called "Passive Resistance" and RD-B says he wrote it for the OWI. "This is the story of passive resistance Of a man who refused to give Nazi assistance. A farmer there was in occupied Norway Who found a grim warning tacked onto his doorway It read "You`ve failed to come up to your quota Next week if you fail by a single iota Your farm will be taken and you will be killed This is the law and must be fulfilled" The farmer replied "Sirs, the undersigned begs To inform you concerning, my quota of eggs, I posted the notice where the hens live But the stubborn old birds still failed to give. So I wrung all their necks, the foul sabotuers. Delighted to serve you, Sincerely y`rs!"" It is the only song in this book attributed to his work for the OIW but among the others are our "Dinah and Villikins", "Marrowbones", "The Eddystone Light" and "The Lincolnshire Poacher", all with additions by himself, no doubt him hearing them while travelling in England as he records in his notes. Should you wish the music let me know on hills636@btinternet.com Cheers, John |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 26 Aug 08 - 11:45 AM Dyer-Bennet records LP 33674-33675 2-12" LP 1978 THE LOVELY MILLERESS (Schubert: Die schöne Müllerin, D795) Richard Dyer-Bennet (Tenor), Nancy Garniez (Pianoforte) translation by Richard Dyer-Bennet. (I got this from the discography above.) This is the recording with the fuller voice, after many years of working with Cornelius Reid. I don't know where to get it. I watched the premier performance at Sunwood Estate, Stony Brook and the New York premier at Alice Tully Hall. I think he sang the New York performance in a lower key. I am using Cornelius Reid's terminology when I say "weak chest register." The exercises for strengthening the chest register involve singing on a loud "ah" vowel starting at E below middle C moving downwards (not up). The pure chest register sound is metallic and ugly. (But better to read the work of Reid.)Reid was able to strengthen Dyer-Bennet's chest register so that he definitely would not be called a countertenor with this reworked voice. Dyer-Bennet told me that John Jacob Niles learned to separate his head register from his chest register at the Scola Cantorum. Later, he found out that he could not no longer re-combine his two registers (the chest and head) leaving him to sing only with his head register, hence the countertenor quality. I met Dyer-Bennet because I wanted a good reason for quitting smoking. I thought that taking voice lessons would be a good reason. At first he wouldn't take me into his voice class because I was not a theater major. But I was able to convince him to take me. Imagine my surprise when I walked into his class and saw him puffing on a cigarette. Non-filter Camels. He smoked a pipe, too. His pipe tobacco was Balkan Sobranie. I am not sure whether he was quoting somebody else but sometimes he would say: "Smoking is not bad for your throat; it's bad for your lungs." Or: "Enrico Caruso smoked two packs of Egyptian cigars everyday and his voice was perfect until the day he died. Of course, he died of lung cancer." |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Aug 08 - 08:18 PM Edwin- He and my father enjoyed smoking their pipes together, and drinking Jack Daniel's bourbon. Father quit smoking at the age of 60 and lived until 98. Dyer-Bennet had an early stroke in his late 70's which resulted in loss of control on one side of his body; he was able to recover motor functions on that side of his body but not full feelings. Though he was never able to play guitar again (to his satisfaction) he was able to play harp (where he could watch what his fingers were doing) and continued to perform. John from Elsie's- I do have a copy of that protest song, the one he composed in tribute to the Norwegian resistance during World War 2. But thanks for posting it for others. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Aug 08 - 12:12 AM I work in a university research library. I'll see what I can dig up with the citation you've provided. Thanks! (I'll report back if I'm successful). SRS |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 27 Aug 08 - 03:37 AM I didn't answer Stilly River Sage's question about "weak chest registers." Think of the voice as being produced by two kinds of muscles working in coordination (your vocal cords or folds.) One produces the chest register sound the other produces the head register sound. Your full voice is some combination of the sounds of these two muscles. You may have a "weak chest register" sound because 1) the chest register muscle is weak (perhaps for the reasons cited by Stilly River Sage, 2) the coordination between the two muscles is not good, with the head register muscles winning over the chest, 3) your vocal concept (what you think you should sound like) makes you use more of your head register muscle. The difficulty is you can't strengthen your vocal muscles by exercising them the way you would exercise your biceps or your abs. You can exercise them only by producing sound. Enter Cornelius Reid who discovered (or re-discovered) that by using different combinations of vowel sound (ooh or ah), pitch and intensity (or volume) you could activate and thereby exercise each of the two registers. Another set of exercises allows you to work on the coordination of the two registers. The ultimate aim of the exercises is to train the vocal muscles so that they are flexible and free to respond to what the singer intends to do with the song, his feelings, his attitudes, his motivations at the moment of singing without the singer having to demand a particular color, intensity, texture, etc. of the voice. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Barry Finn Date: 27 Aug 08 - 03:57 AM I'll just drop in for 100 Interesting thread Barry |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 27 Aug 08 - 04:37 PM Point of curiosity, Edwin. Is any of this information—preferable complete with suggested exercises—available in books? This is not just a casual question. I took a fair amount of voice lessons early on from two very good voice teachers. My voice quality was identified by both of them as bass-baritone, which is slightly lighter than a straight bass. Yet, my range is somewhat limited. I can sing down to a reliable E an octave and 6th below middle C (low, even for some basses), but a bass, especially a bass-baritone, should be able to get up to a fairly solid E or F above middle C. No can do! I find that B or middle C itself are getting quite uncomfortable, even though I can get a good, solid, ringing sound out of G, A, of Bb just below that. But I know better than to push it. Sounds like good chest register, but weak head voice (opposite of Dyer-Bennet's problem). I would love to be able to get into the upper reaches of the bass range without sounding like I've just sat on a tack! If you know of any books or other material, particularly with exercises, I would really appreciate any information you could give me. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 28 Aug 08 - 02:26 AM Nope, don't sing the chest register above the E above middle C. You'll just strip your gears. The books Reid has published can be found in http://www.corneliuslreid.com/. The meanings of vocal terms can change from teacher to teacher, or from one school of singing to another. Read with care. Nothing will beat the ear of a good singing teacher. See if there is a Cornelius Reid-trained singing teacher near where you are. You can check with the National Association of Teachers of Singing (NATS). This kind of a teacher listens functionally, that is, to how the two registers are working in any sound that you produce. This kind of listening allows the teacher to set up exercises to adjust the relationship of the two registers. It's not just a matter of doing argeggios. In a few days, I will receive a set of DVDs of Cornelius Reid giving voice lessons and classes. I sent for them ($30 domestic, $35 international) through: Dr. Don Maxwell, Dept of Music, Midwestern State University, 3410 Taft, Wichita Falls, Texas 76308. (Dr. Maxwell trained with Reid.) I will share my impressions of the DVDs with you next week. In the meantime, work on your head register. Starting at G above middle C, singing on an "oo" vowel, pianissimo. (You may have to start higher before you can get your head register going.) You can work upward or sing one note at a time. You can take this as high as you want (keep it pianissimo) "until you get tears in your eyes, or until you feel the sound is coming out of your ears" (as Dyer-Bennet would say). The sound should be very breathy. You can't sing a pure head register for more than a few seconds because you run out of air. There should be no trace of metal in the voice. Don't sing countertenor because you'll have a trace of chest register in your voice. Trained singers can sing the pure head register down to the G or F below middle C. Don't try this yet. Keep it above the F above middle C. The idea is not to sing the head register in chest register territory. Not yet, anyway. Don't be afraid to produce ugly sounds. Dyer-Bennet used the analogy of a ballet dancer at the barre. He'd say: Not all the movements you do at the barre are beautiful. But you need to do them if you want to dance beautifully. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:33 PM I'm looking forward to reading your comments about the DVDs. As to working on my head register, did you mean the G above middle C or the G just below middle C? I don't think I've been able to hit the G above middle C since I was twelve years old. I can hit the note in falsetto, but this raises a question I have had for a long time. I've noted that there seems to be some confusion about "head voice" and "falsetto." I've always thought they were two different things. My first voice teacher, Edna Bianchi (retired soprano, not famous, but sang at the Met for several seasons; shared a stage with singers like Jan Peerce, Licia Albanese), drew a solid distinction between the two. But I note that some people seem to refer to falsetto as "head voice." Books I have read and singers I have talked to tend to contradict each other a great deal over how many registers there are (two or three—"chest, middle, head") and exactly what constitutes which. Mrs. Bianchi didn't talk much about registers, but she did stress "placement" and "head resonance." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 28 Aug 08 - 01:49 PM HMM! I lost a couple of opening paragraphs when I pasted in my above post. So here's how it was supposed to start out: Thanks a million for your comments, EdwinThen it goes on to "I'm looking forward to. . . ." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:44 PM I find this thread fascinating. Not only does it provide more information about an important musician who sang folk songs but it also provides information about the history of the times, and even technical details about how to sing. My uncle would have been amused as well as honored. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:07 PM I meant the G above middle C. Go ahead and sing the soft "oo" in what you call the falsetto. The idea is to produce a sound that is not chest register. At this pitch and higher, a soft "oo" can't be chest register. (Make sure it is breathy or hooty; nothing metallic). Right now, you're trying to activate and exercise the head register/falsetto. If you still have a hard time, sing a few very loud "ah"s starting at the D below middle C going downward to the B or A below C below middle C. Don't do this too much; just one series. Then go back up to the falsetto. (The purpose here is to push the chest register down, away from the head/falsetto.) Don't go for beautiful sounds. Just open, chest register "ah's". Much later, you can begin to exercise the head register in the chest register area without triggering the chest register. (I know, it's confusing to do this without hearing sounds.It's not the name; it's the sound that's important.) Then much later, you can begin to coordinate these two registers. As I said, different teachers have different terms. I'll check the DVDs to see whether they are clear about what sounds the terms refer to. (My wife will arrive from California tomorrow, I hope with the DVDs.) Reid's dictionary might help. Still, you need to hear the sound. Better, someone needs to point out what sound you are making. Describing it is not enough. May I know what kind of songs you sing? Where you perform? It'll help me. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 28 Aug 08 - 08:17 PM Charley- Richard Dyer-Bennet was a very important person in my life. In participating in this thread, I am paying homage to him. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 29 Aug 08 - 04:54 PM "May I know what kind of songs you sing? Where you perform? It'll help me." Almost all of the songs I sing are traditional folk songs and ballads that I have learned from either song books or records. A large chunk of my repertoire came directly from the records of Richard Dyer-Bennet. Mrs. Bianchi had heard me mention him many times during lessons, and in 1957, she arranged for me to meet him backstage after he did a concert in this area. He was very friendly and encouraging. He asked me how I was proceeding, and I told him that I was studying voice with Mrs. Bianchi, taking classic guitar lessons from a very good teacher in my area, and was busily learning songs, along with their histories and backgrounds. Although I was majoring in English Literature at the university, I planned to change my major to Music because I felt my knowledge of music theory was deficient. He told me that it sounded like I was doing exactly the right things and to "just keep doing what you're doing." As a result of this meeting, I redoubled my efforts. In 1959, a person who had heard me sing at parties and informal song fests asked to do a series of television programs on folk music on the local educational channel. That opened a lot of doors for me, and for the next several years, I was busy every weekend, singing in one coffeehouse or another (only those that were set up for entertainment and who paid decently—no "basket houses" or singing for tips!), doing concerts, more television, and folk festivals. I made a fairly decent living until the mid-1960s when the "British Invasion" occurred and folk music was no longer the "in" thing. If I had it to do over again, I would have relied much less on the popular folk music fans for my audience and spent more time courting Early Music enthusiasts. Less fickle and less influenced by popular music trends. I'm in my mid-seventies, still singing, and as long as the voice sounds good, I intend to keep on singing. I still perform (a concert and a folk festival recently) and intend to continue live performing occasionally, but I'm less interested in live performance now than I am in emulating pianist Glenn Gould and concentrating on recording. I consider recording very demanding. Despite the ability to do re-takes, and commit hanky-panky with computer softwear, I feel recording requires a level of proficiency significantly above live performance. A clinker in live performance happens, then it's gone. The same clinker on a recording is there permanently and repeatedly. Although I have had a fair number of voice lessons, I am not really a classical-sounding singer, and although I pay a great deal of attention to how I sing a song, including a well worked out guitar accompaniment, I'm not as "refined" a performer as Dyer-Bennet. And our voices are certainly different. In times gone by, people used to tell me that I sounded like Ed McCurdy. Within recent years, I've been told that I sound like Gordon Bok. I consider this very much of a compliment and just wish it were true, but I think these comparisons come mostly from the fact that my voice is deep, as are McCurdy's (baritone) and Bok's (bass). But that's enough about me. This thread is supposed to be about Richard Dyer-Bennet, who, rather than trying to imitate source singers as many do, approached folk music as a modern day minstrel. I strive to emulate him in this. "The value lies inherent in the song, not in the regional mannerisms or colloquialisms. No song is ever harmed by being articulated clearly, on pitch, with sufficient control of phrase and dynamics to make the most of the poetry and melody, and with an instrumental accompaniment designed to enrich the whole effect." —Richard Dyer-BennetAmen! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 30 Aug 08 - 08:35 AM Don- I used to have an LP of Ed McCurdy singing bawdy songs. ("A minister's son," Dyer-Bennet noted when I mentioned the LP to him.) That was a long time ago, but I now have some idea of your voice. From what I recall, McCurdy had a tendency to push the chest register even in the low ranges. Pushing the chest register--producing a "manly" sound or trying to have a deep voice--can push away the head register. You may want to just maintain an even and steady flow of sound. By the way, Reid doesn't talk about "placing" the voice; he doesn't believe it can be placed. You may not be able to extend your range right away when you practice your head register/falsetto. But you will feel the top of your voice (not the top of your range) get warmer and velvetier. You may even feel that your voice is bigger without having to exert as much effort; you can do more with less. The quote from Dyer_Bennet isn't just about how he sang a song. I believe this is the man himself: Go to the heart of the matter and give it all you've got, all it deserves. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Arkie Date: 30 Aug 08 - 10:42 AM In the time before folk music became an international rage, Richard Dyer-Bennet and Burl Ives provided the only audible access I had to folk songs. I was somewhat disappointed that Ives later turned to pop oriented music and grateful that Dyer-Bennet continued to sing traditional ballads and songs. I could never understand why other singers did not sing "The Vicar Of Bray". This thread has been a wonderful, informative tribute to Mr. Dyer-Bennet and greatly appreciated here. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: dick greenhaus Date: 30 Aug 08 - 12:08 PM Just to point out that, even apart from his voice, RDB was, with very few exceptions, a brilliant musician and arranger. One of the giants. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stilly River Sage Date: 30 Aug 08 - 12:20 PM Edwin, Don Firth has a marvelous voice. I can't parse out the technical aspects of it, but ever since I was a little kid, when Don was around to sing, I was there, glued to his performances. This is more along the lines of a testimonial, not a critical analysis like you're able to do for Dyer-Bennet, but it's the quality and sound of his voice behind what you hope most singers have (the ability to carry a tune, sing clearly, etc.), along with such great guitar accompaniment, that makes it all work so beautifully. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 31 Aug 08 - 08:37 AM Let me use the song by Gordon Bok to illustrate some ideas of Reid"s. Please understand that this is not a critique of the singer. Nor am I saying that what Bok is doing is vocally bad. As Dyer-Bennet said: You can do anything you want (vocally); just don't do it all the time. As an example he launched into a rasping Leadbelly song which rang with the sounds of a work gang's sledge hammers. (According to Dyer-Bennet fellow prisoners commented that if Huddie Ledbetter could sing that way while on a work gang he had to have a LeadBelly. LeadBelly's singing set the pace of the work. He was known to slow down the pace when a new guy joined them.) I mentioned that Ed McCurdy would push his chest register in the lower range. To illustrate, in the song of Gordon's, I place in ALL CAPS some words where he pushes the chest register. (I couldn't get all the words down.) I"D LIKE to tell you the STORY, BOYS, about taking down(?) the drive. My foreman's name is BUSTER AND he also does RESIDE Near the banks…. MAINE. The Kingston Trio did the same thing with: HANG DOWN your head TOM DOO-ley HANG DOWN your head AND CRY. To repeat, I'm not saying that this is bad. But, Don, you want to develop your higher notes. To do that you have to get your head register working in coordination with your chest. Don't push your head register out of the way. Uneven singing of the notes has another effect which is that the shape of the throat changes as the singer moves from note to note. This means that the registers (they are muscles, remember) have to keep adjusting with each change in the shape of the throat. For the sake of good register coordination, it is better to maintain the shape of the throat as you go from note to note. This is known as legato singing. Gordon Bok also narrows the throat when he goes up to the G or A below middle C. Same rule. Keep the shape of the throat the same whether in the low or in the high range. This is not to say that you keep the shape of the throat that you have now. That will change as your voice improves. What it means is you need a shape of the throat that does not need to change as you move from chest register territory to head register and back down. You'll discover what this is. (Dyer-Bennet could sing an "ah" from the E below middle C to C above middle C and back down again without an audible break in the voice. If you can do this, you're in good shape, register coordination-wise.) Same with moving from vowel to vowel: no change in the shape of the throat. I'll have my comments on the DVDs soon. By the way they are actually 5 CDs and a DVD. A word of warning: these CDs and DVD are things only a voice student or teacher would love. Sorry if I am taking up to much space. Please let me know. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 31 Aug 08 - 09:39 AM Edwin- Take all the space you want. You're certainly making a major contribution to this forum. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 31 Aug 08 - 01:58 PM Thanks for the information, Edwin. Much to think about. I'm listening to singers of all kinds with more acute ears these last few days. My wife brought the two aforementioned books by Cornelius Reid home from the library yesterday. The Bel Canto book is a slim but highly informative volume and A Dictionary of Vocal Terminology : An Analysis is a BIG volume (8 ½ by 11 and an inch and a half thick—about 450 pages of fairly small print). Weighs a ton! I'm going to be doing some intense and extensive reading for awhile. Also, I'm going to have to do a bit of fairly critical analysis of some of what Reid says that flies in the face of things I have been taught and that I know from experience do work. For example, on page 277 of the Dictionary, after a fairly long discussion, he states that "'Placement' is a concept without basis in fact" and "should be eliminated if training procedures are to be constructive." And at one point, he states that telling a singer to "place" the tone is as pointless as telling a violinist to put the tone of his instrument up against the ceiling. But—I can do it. I can feel it. And I can hear it. More important, perhaps, is that when I do it, others can hear it. And I can hear whether or not other singers are doing it. Classical singers, almost universally. Folk and popular singers, some do, some don't. But it makes a big difference in both the quality of the tone and in projection: being able to sing, even fairly softly, and bounce the sound off the back wall of a sizable auditorium. As I recall especially hearing him live, Richard Dyer-Bennet's placement was spot on, and even when he sang softly, his voice rang clearly through the whole concert hall. Not a function of power. A function of good placement. Comments? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 01 Sep 08 - 10:48 PM By all means be critical of all the theories of voice. As I said earlier, vocal terms, concepts, processes tend to vary from teacher to teacher, and from one school of voice to another. The main reason is that a lot of words in singing and the teaching of singing are metaphors. The voice does not really go "up' or "down." Voices do not really differ in "size." Voices are not really "warm," "dark," "somber," "light," "heavy," "bright," or "velvety." These are all metaphors. The word "register" is taken from the vocabulary of the pipe organ. There are no "stops" by which the "registration" of the voice can be changed. The "chest" does not have a voice; neither does the "head." The diaphragm, though real, does not really "sing." (Actually, my teacher told me to sing from my b_lls.) A sound cannot be "false"; it is a sound. Metaphors give us a way of thinking about things. In using metaphors, we are like the hard sciences where there are "black holes," "electron clouds," and light may be thought of as "waves" or "particles." Metaphors are helpful when we have a way of figuring out what they refer to or point to. That is easy enough when the thing the metaphor points to is out in the world for all to see or hear. But when the thing pointed to is inside our bodies it is hard to figure out what the metaphor is pointing to. Unfortunately, a lot of what happens in singing is inside our bodies (where in our bodies, depends on the school of singing). When we disagree about matters of the voice, we may really be disagreeing about the metaphors we are using; not about what the metaphor is pointing to. Whether or not we use a metaphor does not depend on what is "real", "correct," or "true." (Our use of a metaphor depends on whether it suits us.) These three words are about what the metaphor is referring to, not about the metaphor. The problem is we may not know exactly what we are referring to. So, how to choose a voice teaching technique? Dyer-Bennet suggested two rules of thumb: a) your voice (actually your throat or vocal apparatus) should not hurt or be hoarse at the end of a session, b) after many sessions your range should increase or at least stay the same; your range should not decrease. I will add that the method must in same way make sense to you or at least feel comfortable to you. Of course, having a good teacher, one you get along with, helps. (When I first met my tai chi teacher he made sense to me and he was good. I have been with him for 25 years.) Dyer-Bennet did not distinguish between power and placement. He distinguished between power (volume) and clarity. (Note that we can easily point to a loud voice or a clear voice. Placement happens inside the body so it's hard to point to.) In one discussion of projection, Dyer-Bennet slammed his hand down on the piano and said: "That is loud. It can be heard all the way to the back of the auditorium. But it is not clear." Then he sang a soft "ah." "That," he said, "is clear." He also said: "When a director tells an actor 'I can't hear you' he doesn't mean he can't hear the actor. He can hear the actor BUT he can't understand what the actor is saying." For Dyer-Bennet, projection was a matter of the clarity of one's sound. (In another RD-B story, someone told Andres Segovia: The sound of your guitar is small but it is far.) Now we are somewhere: we need a voice technique that will give us a clear voice. But will we study the coordination of registers (a metaphor) or study voice placement (another metaphor)? RD-B sang There's a Hole in the Bottom of the Sea. But he never sang There's a Hole in the Bucket. That was Harry Belafonte, I think. (Belafonte wanted to emulate RD-B but couldn't really master the guitar. Besides, he preferred to move around the stage.) |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 02 Sep 08 - 09:04 PM There are no frets on the vocal folds to change their length, nor are there any reels or turnbuckles that one can control directly to change their tension, so the only way one can sing a particular pitch is to hear it clearly, either from an outside source or in one's "mind's ear," and then try to duplicate the sound with one's voice. This, of course, is the same way we learn to speak in the first place: hear, then imitate. Hopefully, the "semi-voluntary" muscles involved will make the desired adjustments and the tone produced will duplicate the desired pitch. Rather like shooting from the hip; at first you miss a lot, but accuracy improves with practice. The same holds true for almost all aspects of the vocal mechanism. Both Edna Bianchi and the second voice teacher I studied with, George Hotchkiss Street (Pure and Easy Tone Production : Fundamental Principles of Singing; I didn't know at the time that he'd written any books, and I wish I could get my hands on a copy of this!) stressed that one cannot control the voice directly in the same way one can, say, flex one's biceps muscles, and any attempt to do so will invariably a) not work, and b) produce counterproductive tension. The only way one can get at it is indirectly, and this means that the teacher has to try to communicate with the pupil through metaphor and imagery. A lot of it on the part of both teacher and pupil is trial-and-error. It's the choice of the metaphor/imagery that can be the stumbling block. An image that a teacher uses may quickly convey what the teacher is trying to get at to one pupil, but could sound physically impossible ("Sing from your stomach") or downright silly to a second pupil. Such images are, of necessity, a bit fuzzy around the edges. Re: Placement. To convey the idea, Mrs. B. had me hum, and take note of the way I could feel the vibrations around my nose and forehead (the "mask"). Then she had me sing vowels preceded by nasal consonants—"m" and "n"—that produced the same sensations. So when Mrs. B. told me to place the tone in the mask, I knew what she meant and I could duplicate it. What my throat and surrounding muscles were doing, I don't know, but I know I had to keep my throat as relaxed as possible or the tone dropped out of the mask. She did keep telling me to smile as I sang, or at least, lift my upper lip above my teeth. I'm not sure, but assessing the sensations in my mouth and throat when I do this, I think it tends to open the throat and lift the soft palate, perhaps increasing the opening into the nasal passages. She was quite emphatic, however, that when she referred to "nasal resonance" (the by-product of of "placing the voice" or "singing in the mask"), she did not mean that it should sound "nasal," or as she put it, "nosey." If I place the tone in the mask, as she taught, I produce a singing tone. If I don't, I'm simply shouting. As I said above, I can feel the difference, and I can hear the difference, both directly (echoing back) and when I record and play back. And others can hear it too. I know full well, of course, that my voice—my vocal mechanism—is in my throat, not in my "mask." It is the tone, which, by some trick of thought, affects those semi-voluntary muscles that allow it to go (or be "placed") in the mask. As to falsetto and head voice being the same thing: I can do an easy octave jump by singing a note in what I consider my "normal" voice and then popping it into falsetto—the same thing a person does when he yodels. In fact, with a little practice, I could probably yodel up a storm, but that's just not my thing! But my yodel-break is clean and definite, and there is a clear and distinct difference in quality between my normal voice and my falsetto. I've seen photographs of the vocal folds (taken with a laryngoscope or similar device) singing in the various "registers," and there is a distinct difference between what happens in "normal" singing tones and falsetto. In falsetto, the folds clamp tight together on either end, leaving an oval opening about midway. Comparing what are identified as "head tones" with falsetto tones, there is a distinct difference between both the sound produced and the position of the folds. And about everything I've heard or read about the voice, although often disagreeing about the nature or registers, what they consist of, and how many there are, agree that head voice and falsetto are two distinctly different things. So at this point, I'm highly skeptical of Reid's contention that head voice and falsetto are the same thing. This would mean that on the many records I have of Richard Dyer-Bennet, and the times I have heard him in person, he is singing almost exclusively in falsetto. Granted, Dyer-Bennet's voice was not as powerful as most operatic tenors, but I have never heard the kind of power he could muster when he wanted to (for example, his recording of Lonesome Valley, Dyer-Bennet Records No. 1) coming out of someone singing in falsetto, nor have I ever heard a countertenor (which some folks claim Dyer-Bennet was, but having heard several and knowing two personally, I strenuously disagree) who had the power he did when he wanted to use it. I also have problems with the idea that the break or transition between chest voice and head voice/falsetto occurs on or about E above middle C for both male and female voices. This would mean (according to Reid) that female singers, especially sopranos, sing almost exclusively in falsetto. When compared with the evidence of my own ears (Natalie Dusay, Renée Fleming, Cecilia Bartoli, Marilyn Horne), I find this very hard to accept. But I'm open to being persuaded if the evidence is compelling enough. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:57 AM Don- Let's just go back to the question that started this particular series: How to sing in the higher ranges of the bass range, that is, to the F or G above middle C? I will try an analysis from the Reid perspective. Whether you buy it or not is up to you. In your note of 27 Aug 08 you say you can go up to the B flat below middle C but above that its uncomfortable for you. In your note of 28 Aug 08 you say you can sing the G above middle C in falsetto. There's something interesting going on here because you should be able to take your chest register up to the E above middle C (so Reid would say). Some questions in my head: Are you pulling your larynx down as you go up? Are you singing with a fixed or tight lanryngeal position all along your range (there should be some natural movement—but not much)? Are you singing in a voice too large for you? You say you have a falsetto. (Let's leave aside questions of falsetto vs. head register; Reid would say they are the same. Let's take Reid for now.) How high can you take it: C or D or even E above C above middle C? We would have to make sure that you can sing it ("oo" vowel, soft, breathy) without bringing in the chest register (metallic, sharp edge). Can you sing this pure falsetto one note at a time down to F above middle C? Ok, back up again to C or D. Sing a falsetto "oo" vowel, then without changing the shape of the throat, change the vowel to an "ah." The same thing one note at a time down to the F above middle C. Now start again at high C from ""oo" to "ah" but now gradually crescendo on the "ah" without bringing in the chest. Keep the shape of the throat the same. Now try doing the "oo" to "ah" with crescendo down to the D above middle C without bringing in the chest. It's ok if you can do this only until the F above middle C. Now, let's go down to the A below C below middle C. On a medium soft "ah" take an octave jump to the A below middle C without changing the shape of the throat. The octave jump should be as soft as you can make it (no scooping). Instead of the octave jump "ah" you can sing "hah". It may or may not go into falsetto; just kept the higher A soft. If the higher A shifts to falsetto that's ok. Move up one note at a time, medium soft lower "ah" (firm chest sound, though) to soft higher "ah." The "ah" should be the same vowel sound at both ends. You can go up to the G below middle C. Then move the octave jumps downward. Then start over again on the falsetto side. There's a logic, albeit Reid-ian, to these exercises. First you isolate the falsetto (high "oo"). Then you strengthen it along its range ("oo" down to F above middle C). Then you gradually bring in a little chest ("oo" to "ah"). Then bring in even more chest ("oo" to "ah" then crescendo on the "ah") but making sure the head predominates. Then you bring the chest and head together, making sure the chest doesn't overpower the head (octave jumps, medium soft bottom "ah" to soft octave "ah" moving up into head register range (above F above middle C). Note the basic tools of Reid: Vowel sound, pitch, and volume. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 04 Sep 08 - 01:59 PM Thanks, Edwin. I'll work on this and then I'll get back to you. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 04 Sep 08 - 08:40 PM What did Dyer-Bennet think of his own voice? This is what he would say: "My voice is pretty good but it is not that good." Sometimes he would add: "I got away with murder." Don- You may want to start the octave jumps lower, say, G below C below middle C. You have difficulty at B below middle C, so on the octave jump if you have to break into a falsetto go ahead. Just be sure to keep the upper note soft. Don't squeeze the tone, use open "ahs." To loosen up your larynx, move it up and down (without making a sound). It helps if you swallow. Kermit the Frog does this very well. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:08 PM Edwin and Don- You are probably aware that some of us (if not many of us) were quite intimidated by the idea of singing before RDB. We thought he was perfect and frequently he was. When he wasn't he wasn't pleased. However, he was also interested in what other singers were doing, whether they were perfect or not, and he was only judgmental about those who were commercially popular but were not singing as well as they might. He credits my mother with several songs that he learned from her, and my mother while an avid singer of folk songs was quite limited in terms of how well she could sing. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Barry Finn Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:49 PM Charlie, your mother, after meeting her, I don't think was limited in anything that she put her hand or mind to. I'm not surprized that RDB credits several songs from your mother. I recall the night I sang a Georgia Sea Island shanty for her, it was a rare song & had it's origins in a slave song & after finishing she added a verse that I can't for the life of me find anywhere else. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:16 AM RD-B was concerned about tone whether of the voice or of the guitar. (When I first saw his guitar--a Ramirez--I was surprised to see that it had a break in the neck about three inches from the body. The neck had been glued back together. But then again it is the body that determines the tone,not the neck.) When I first met him he had already had his major stroke. He could still play because "the muscles in my left hand still remember even though I can't feel anything." I suggested that he learn to play lefty so that his feeling right hand would be at the frets. "No," he replied, "It is the right hand that produces the tone." "You must always play your guitar at A=440. It sounds best at that pitch. It was made to be played at that pitch, " he would also say."But," he continued,"you don't have to keep it at that pitch.You can always loosen the strings, " here he mimed loosening his guitar strings, and then he leaned back and stretched his legs, "and let yourself go and relax." |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 10 Sep 08 - 09:32 PM Here's another story RD-B shared with me: Richard Dyer-Bennet's father's name was originally Dyer. (A 1941 Time magazine article says that RD-B's father was related to a British baronet named Sir John Dyer.) RD-B's father had a very close friend whose family name was Bennet. This close friend was an only child and he had no children. He was concerned that the Bennet name would end when he died. For the sake of his close friend, RD-B's father went to court and had his name changed to Dyer-Bennet. RD-B's father was a professional soldier, an officer. His unit took part in World War I. His unit was decimated. Only seven or eight men survived. Because of his war experience, RD-B's father gave up soldiering to become a farmer in Canada in 1919. RD-B's father separated from his mother a few years later. (His mother took RD-B and his brother and moved to California in 1925.) Knowing what we know now about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder—it was known as "shell shock" then—it is likely that the trauma of war experienced by RD-B's father made it difficult for him to maintain his relationship with his wife and kids. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 11 Sep 08 - 08:16 PM Edwin- Not a family story that was ever conveyed to us. Thanks for posting it. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin T. Decenteceo Date: 14 Sep 08 - 10:23 AM Here are my comments on the Cornelius Reid Project CDs and DVD. This is a set of 5 CDs and a DVD. In his notes, Dr. Don Maxwell (Project Director) says: "There are excerpts from lessons demonstrating the use of exercises, the coaching of songs and arias, and Reid's own comments on how the principles he sets forth are put into practice. In one discussion Reid compares his ideas and theories with those of F. M. Alexander. The DVD includes portions of a vocal master class given in conjunction with the American Center for the Alexander Technique." The voices in the set are all classically trained voices, that is, they are set to the vocal standards of the recital hall or to opera. There is one excerpt of a male singing an "alternative pop/rock song" (I had to ask my daughter what kind of song it was.) But it is presented as a pre-Reid song excerpt. In a subsequent excerpt the male sings an aria. There are male and female voices. The females are sopranos and mezzos; the males are tenors, baritones, and basses. (In Reid's view, these terms are about the size of a voice, not about the pitch range. Ideally, all voices should have a range of at least two-and-a-half octaves.) The folksinger who tries to study these voices may have to be of one mind with those who say: To dance jazz dance, you need to train in classical ballet. To play folk or jazz guitar you need to study classic guitar technique. However, I think that as a general matter of "conditioning" the voice or "keeping the voice in shape," these exercises may still be useful, even if the singer uses a different vocal style. The vocal exercises seem to repeat themselves. To use Reid vocal terminology, there are exercise for 1) isolating the chest register and head register, 2) strengthening the chest and the head register, and 3) joining the chest and head register. In the coaching sessions (involving arias), time is spent of the concept of "doing without doing." The notes say, "The discs document gradual vocal development over extended periods of time as well as astonishing progress in as little as five days." That may be beside the point, however. The point is to know what particular exercise to use at a particular point in a voice lesson so that a problem in the voice at that time is solved. As Reid says in the DVD: "There is no lesson plan." Thus, the exercises do not simply repeat themselves; they are done at a particular point to achieve a specific vocal goal. To a singer/teacher trained in Reid's methods or vocal concepts, the set may serve as a standard or quality check. But someone who is not familiar with Reid's methods and sounds may have difficulty seeing--or more correctly, hearing--the reason for the exercises. Reid's recorded comments ought to help BUT the sound of Reid's speaking voice is not often clear. (Perhaps the set was engineered to have the singing voice stand out.) I tried different CD/DVD players and different settings of whatever equalizer was available in my player (including a PC and a laptop) to try to make Reid's voice clear. I was not always successful. Sub-titles in the DVD would have been a great help. When Reid talks while the student is singing, his voice is not clear at all. It is possible to "sing along" with the exercises. But one should not try to sound like the students doing the exercises. They sing opera or art song after all. But the particular vowel, the particular volume, the particular pattern (the arpeggio) could be followed. When the student gets into a range that is too high or too low, the listener may stop but join up again when the exercise is within his/her range. It would be helpful to listen to the set while at a piano or keyboard so that the listener knows what pitch Reid starts at, or more precisely, what pitch range Reid is working in. In Reid's system pitch is important because the head and chest register have their respective pitch ranges. Don't worry too much about how you hold your body (Dyer-Bennet would have us sit down while doing vocal exercises). Don't worry about your breathing either. Don't worry if you go off pitch. Don't even try to correct your pitch. When you are learning a new vocal adjustment your pitch may go wrong. This is fine; you are simply learning to use your muscles in a different way. That problem will correct itself. (A rule of thumb: when you are working the head register, your pitch may go sharp; when you are working the chest register, you pitch may go flat.) So, when you are "singing along" you don't always have to match the pitch of the singer. Once in a while, you'll make ugly sounds. That's fine, too. (There are some ugly sounds in the set.) Also, while the throat or voice box should not jump about, neither should it be held down rigidly. Furthermore, the shape of the throat should not change as you move up or down or change consonant or vowel. Again, don't do this rigidly. Find a shape of the throat that you can maintain while changing pitch, intensity or vowel or consonant sound. Above all, sing with joy. Dyer-Bennet would say: Even though you are only doing vocal exercises, you should always remember to sing. After writing these last paragraphs I can see that the set would be helped by some brief notes on Reid's techniques. But no theoretical discussions, please. As a scientist once proposed (in order to solve scientific disputes): Don't listen to what I say; look at what I do. Reid says a lot of things in his books. This set of CDs and a DVD is Reid "doing." |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Don Firth (computer still in the shop) Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:29 PM Thanks for the comments, Edwin. It sounds like the DVD and the CDs could be quite helpful. I was about to ask how one could obtain them and how much they cost, but I note you've already answered that in your post of 28 Aug 08 - 02:26 a.m., above. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin T. Decenteceo Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:11 PM RD-B and I would sometimes discuss philosophical topics. As a graduate student at that time, I was interested in the ideas of T. S. Kuhn, Michael Polanyi, and S. C. Pepper, all of whom influenced thinking in the sciences. At one session I brought up the ideas of Pepper. His major work is World Hypotheses. Pepper argued that philosophical thinking can be grouped into world hypotheses or world views that are based on root metaphors such as the metaphor of the machine or the organism or the on-going event. These world views are very self-contained. Each one claims to be able to understand all if not most of the events in the world. Because the world views are very different and all-encompassing, you simply cannot say that one world view is better than another. Pepper influenced thinking not only in science, but also in psychology, art, aesthetics, logic, ethics, general value theory, and metaphysics. Sometimes his ideas come up in discussions on post-modern thought. One author goes on to claim that Pepper should be considered one of the greatest philosophers of the 20th century. Pepper was also "a Renaissance man who made all knowledge his province, and he taught his readers to see their world with the same vast scope." After a long discussion of Pepper's ideas, RD-B suddenly asked me: "Ed, are your referring to Stephen C. Pepper? Stephen Coburn Pepper?" Puzzled, I said: "Yes." "I was married to his daughter!" Pepper taught at the University of California, Berkeley. RD-B studied at Berkeley. RD-B would come to Pepper with a question. Pepper would reply: "Dick, that is a two pipe-bowl question." He would proceed to light his pipe and lean back in his chair, prepared to discuss RD-B's question for the amount of time it would take to smoke two pipe bowls of tobacco. RD-B would later be divorced from Pepper's daughter and then later he would meet Melvene Ipcar. -0- A student at Stony Brook asked RD-B: "Do you believe in marriage?" RD-B replied: "Of course, I do. That's why I married again!" |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:24 PM We were oblivious growing up to our uncle's earlier marriage. Nice to finally get some details. Were there children from this marriage as well? Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:45 PM Charley, RD-B didn't say anything about children from that marriage. I didn't ask either. That line about his marriage and his story about Pepper was all that he brought up. He did mention Pepper's daughter's name. I hope I didn't offend anyone by bringing up that story. I might have since it seems it wasn't talked about. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 18 Sep 08 - 10:03 PM Edwin- Not to worry. It's the details we never asked about because it did seem an awkward question. I do have fond memories of stopping by the Dyer-Bennets in the early 1970's, on one of my periodic trips back and forth from Michigan to Maine, and being impressed how tuned in he was on all the issues we were protesting with regard to the Vietnam War. I had assumed he was only interested in 1000 year old folk songs. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Art Thieme Date: 18 Sep 08 - 10:58 PM What a fascinating thread this has become and is! Thanks to you all. As one who simply sang without ever knowing anything about that which you speak of here, it is all a revelation. I literally "followed" my guitar or banjo with my voice. I would play the chord or the individual note a short fraction of a second before I sang it. Either that, or I 'knew' from a chord what relative note I desired to get---so I just WENT AND GOT IT! (Hope that makes some sense.) My ten-note range got me a long way in the 40 years I sang folk songs. (Twelve notes on a good day.) Without my instruments to follow, I was lost. Thanks to you all again. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:59 PM RD-B had one rule on what he would say about a song before he sang it: What you say must add to the song. If it doesn't, it is better to leave the song alone. If RD-B had comments to make about a song, he would tune his guitar first (or at least check the tuning.) It was clear that his mental and physical preparation to sing a song began before he made his comments. Then he would make his comments. Having made his comments he would proceed directly to the song. (Examples of his comments are found in his Richard Dyer-Bennet Song Book.) If RD-B had to cough or clear his throat he did not do it between songs or between lines of a song. He did it in the middle of a line or a word. Thus he did not go: "Alas, my love, you do me wrong [cough] to cast…" Instead he sang: "Alas, my love, you do me wr—[cough]—ong to cast…" The mind disregards the cough because it is paying attention to the word "wrong." Put another way, the mind is actively making sense of the song, in this instance the word "wrong." The cough in the middle of "wrong" doesn't make sense, so the mind disregards it, that is, the listener doesn't hear it. One fascinating thing to see during an RD-B performance was how he would tune his guitar in the middle of a song. Bear in mind that RD-B didn't look at his left hand during a song; he looked at his listeners. (When I knew him he already had the stroke that made his left side unable to feel anything.) During a song, RD-B would sense that a string was off pitch. He would figure out which string it was and by how much it was off pitch. Still singing the song, and without looking at his left hand, he would quickly reach over with his left hand and give the offending tuning key the correct twist. He would continue to sing as if nothing had happened. During his performances, RD-B experienced a variety of mishaps: his suspenders would snap free, he would walk onto the stage with his shoe lace untied, or his fly would be open. A unique incident happened while he was singing in the Philippines during the latter days of World War II. (With just his guitar, RD-B was easy to move around in a Piper Cub, to entertain service men.) As he was singing, a moth flew into his mouth. There really was no choice: he swallowed it. To RD-B, the main point was the song. Nothing—not even the singer--could be allowed to distract the listener away from the song. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Big Al Whittle Date: 23 Sep 08 - 01:45 AM Gosh what an odd sound! surely the guy was a natural tenor, he had that upward lilt that Josef Locke said made tenors irresistable to women. Of coure as a sixties type person, I had come across the name (along with Niles) in many songbooks, but I had ever really checked him out. (Well lets face it you couldn't just check people out with the flick of a switch before the internet.) When you think this was possibly the major repository of folksong people looked to, you realise what a leap of imagination - people like Pete Seeger and Ewan MacColl made. When you look at that repertoire - you realise that this was definitely a stopping off place for 'the tradition' - one that is neglected and swept aside. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Sep 08 - 09:05 AM Edwin- "One fascinating thing to see during an RD-B performance was how he would tune his guitar in the middle of a song." One of my earliest memories of RD-B in concert was the exact opposite of this. He had begun a ballad and was part way into it when he realized his guitar needed retuning (few in the audience were aware of that!). He stopped, retuned the guitar, and began the ballad from the beginning. I, being more used to informal house party folk singing, found the experience extremely awkward. This may have been a unique experience or one that persuaded him to subsequently retune as he was singing. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 28 Sep 08 - 07:58 PM Sometime in the'50s RD-B participated in a psychological research on performers and other creative artists. The research, conducted by well-known psychologists and psychiatrists, was undertaken because a number of young artists in Manhattan had been confined for mental health problems or had committed suicide. According to RD-B, he understood both the need for the research and also why the young artists were having problems. He said, "Sometimes when I am performing I feel like I am going crazy." |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 28 Sep 08 - 08:41 PM Hmm! I wonder. I seemed to have been able to bring off performing okay (I did a lot of it), and most of the time I really enjoyed it, but there were occasional times when I was up in front of an audience when I suddenly thought, "What the hell am I doing here???" Anybody else? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Big Al Whittle Date: 29 Sep 08 - 04:01 AM Dunno, do you live in Manhattan Don? Is it just artists from Manhattan who were committing suicide. Perhaps the tall buildings have something to do with it. I generally know why I am there. Its something to do with 'that's what I decided to do with my life', for better or worse - and occasionally if feels very much for worse. On the other hand, I've had a long stretch away from playng professionally - three years now since I got ill. And I miss the whole lifestyle. Particularly, I can't stand being a civilian at Christmas, and sitting at home watching Its a Wonderful Life and The Great Escape on the tv with all the other schmucks. I hate Christmas dinners and everything being closed and nowhere to go and gig. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Don Firth Date: 29 Sep 08 - 03:33 PM Manhattan? No, I live in Seattle, the land of frozen loggers, geoducks, and the occasional erupting volcano. The "what am I doing here!??" thing happens only on rare occasions and fortunately doesn't last more than a few seconds. No big deal. A long stretch away from playing professionally? Yeah, me, too. Bummer!! "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak," as they say. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 05 Oct 08 - 12:32 AM When an artist is no longer making money for a recording company, his/her records are no longer produced. RD-B wanted people to hear his songs. So he decided to produce his own records. The decision to risk coming up with his own recording company was re-constructed for me by RD-B. Here is his discussion with his manager (probably Harvey Cort): RD-B: How many people buy records? Manager: [Gives a number.] RD-B: Of that number, what per cent buys records of folk songs? Manager: About ten per cent. RD-B: Of that number, what per cent have heard of Dyer-Bennet? Manager: Maybe ten per cent. RD-B: Of that number, what per cent would be willing to buy my records? Manager: Around ten per cent. RD-B: Can I make a living from that ten per cent? Manager: YES! |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST,Edwin Decenteceo Date: 11 Oct 08 - 11:11 PM RD-B was involved in a bar room brawl. He (very proudly) told me about it. When RD-B tells a story, he doesn't just sit still. He acts out the story. I don't remember now where it happened, whether at the Village Vanguard or at the Ruban Bleu. He performed in both. He would do one set at one place and then race across town to do another set in the other place. The brawl started when one member of a group of drunken patrons approached the piano player who was performing at that time. The drunk wanted to play. This was not allowed by the management. The drunk was persistent. RD-B approached the piano to help to explain the policy. The drunk pushed RD-B to the floor. "All hell broke loose," as the saying goes. One participant was Burl Ives who was hit on the teeth by a swung chair. The chair broke into pieces. But Ives' teeth survived. (Ives's had played football in college.) Another participant was Melvene Dyer-Bennet who jumped on the back of another drunk who was about to hit RD-B. The drunken group abruptly left after the first few blows. But Ives, apparently more experienced in these matters than the others, said that they would be back. Ives armed himself with a chair and stood guard near the door. The drunks did come back. One had a kitchen knife that he threw at Ives. The knife buried itself in the chair that Ives held. The fight continued. Eventually the drunks left. Not a mirror was left unbroken. Tables and chairs were scattered all over. Bottles, broken or spilled, were on the floor. Melvene tended to the cuts, scratches and bruises of RD-B and his friends. All the other patrons had fled at the first signs of combat. But a group of British sailors stayed. They thought, it seemed, that this was how the locals spent their evenings: there was no reason to leave. The bar manager did not report the brawl to the police. That would have been bad for business. The next night plywood had replaced the mirrors. RD-B and his friends were back to perform. Leadbelly was there, too, but he had missed the brawl. He listened to RD-B's account of the brawl. "The next time something like that happens, this is what you should do," Leadbelly said. (He had been jailed once on the charge of murder. He had also been jailed for knifing another man.) Leadbelly took a chair and held it so that its legs faced outwards much like a lion tamer holds a chair before his lions. Then he took a bottle of beer by the neck and smashed its base on the edge of a table. Then Leadbelly approached RD-B, crouching slightly, chair in one hand and broken beer bottle in the other. From the other end of the room came the manager's anguished cry: "Jesus Christ! Not again!" |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet help From: GUEST,CJWilson Date: 13 Sep 13 - 03:37 AM Have a 12 inch red shellac Concert Hall Society Release CHC-13.(1085-88)../RDB Beethoven I bought it for the the color, the original liner notes, and could not believe it had RDB, Strosfogel, etc! The entire Scotch poems and line up from the concert hall is in there, in love with RDB now. The paper has possibly German writing on it..Scotch Songs.. Concert Hall Cont Recording Microgroove... Does anybody know if this was an overseas club release? I've dated it to early 50's (maybe earlier?) Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stilly River Sage Date: 13 Sep 13 - 02:43 PM I'm looking forward to reading the answers! |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Thomas Stern Date: 13 Sep 13 - 03:47 PM The CONCERT HALL SOCIETY releases are listed in the discography (above). The society issued 78rpm albums on a subscription basis, usually limited to 3000 copies. Later some of these recordings were released on LP (unlimited). Many were also issued in Europe. The Dyer-Bennet album of BEETHOVEN's Scottish Songs dates from 1946, initially as 4 12" 78rpm disks in an album, reissued as a single 12" LP. The BEETHOVEN Irish Songs as 3 10" 78rpm, no LP reissue. I am not aware of any European release of either album. Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: GUEST Date: 14 Sep 13 - 12:31 AM So this is what I have: Concert Hall CHC-13 SIDE 1: Scottish Songs (Schottische Lieder) 12"- Red 33 LP Blue label. CHS#85- 4 Faithfu'Johnie, Sweet Were the Hours, 2.Oh How Can I Be Blithe and Glad, The Lovely Lass at Inverness,Could This Ill World Have Been Contriv'd,Sunset Side 2:Again My Lyre, On the Massacre of Glencoe, The British Light Dragoons, O Mary at Thy Window Be-Bonny Laddie, ending with Highland Laddie on side B. So if it was reissued as a single, is it not rare then? The liner notes are larger than legal size, red black and white. ..talks about the symphony players, and has a separate poem lyric list..(Sir Walter Scott). Thanks again. Even Library of Congress has given missed signals, and can not tell me! Would love to email somebody pictures |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Thomas Stern Date: 14 Sep 13 - 12:32 PM The album is NOT particularly rare. It IS listed at the Library of Congress, and in many other library/archive catalogs. [Library of Congress online catalog listing] What information, other than what has been given, are you seeking? Thomas |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 14 Sep 13 - 07:07 PM Thomas- Glad to see you are still posting here. Cordially, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Thomas Stern Date: 16 Sep 13 - 10:11 AM Hi Charley, Best wishes! For those interested in Richard Dyer-Bennet's performance of the BEETHOVEN settings, in addition to the Concert Hall albums, he recorded these songs on his own label. Copies show up regularly on the various sites for old recordings. Dyer-Bennet 7000 Beethoven Scottish and Irish Songs 1958 Richard Dyer-Bennet, Natasha Magg, Urico Rossi, Fritz Magg, Faithfu' Johnie On the Massacre of Glencoe Bonnie Laddie, Highland Laddie Sunset The Lovely Lass of Inverness The Pulse of an Irishman Once More I Hail Thee Morning a Cruel Turmoiler Is The Morning Air Plays on My Face The Return to Ulster Oh, Who My Dear Dermot Again My Lyre Best wishes, Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Stilly River Sage Date: 16 Sep 13 - 11:27 AM Is the question simply was the album reissued in Germany, and does the record show that reissue? |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Sep 13 - 11:45 AM Everything on the Dyer-Bennet label is available at Smithsonian Folkways - which means it's also available on Spotify. It's titled Richard Dyer-Bennet, Volume 7: Beethoven Scottish and Irish Songs. -Joe, just back from Scotland and craving more Scottish music- |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Thomas Stern Date: 16 Sep 13 - 03:52 PM Hi Stilly River Sage, As far as I know, the CONCERT HALL Scottish Songs was only issued in the USA. The German sub-title was part of the package. If anyone knows of any European release of these DYB albums, I would appreciate receiving the details. The catalog numbers on the Euro releases of other material usually differed from US nos. Joe - thanks for reminding folks about the availability of all of the Richard Dyer-Bennet albums on his own label on CD from Smithsonian. Dyer-Bennet RECORDS released one album by AKSEL SCHIOTZ which is NOT available from Smithsonian. Any Aksel Schiotz fans ??? Best wishes, Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: keberoxu Date: 21 Apr 16 - 07:51 PM A belated comment to Thomas Stern on the previous post: According to the Paul Jenkins biography of Richard Dyer-Bennet, that long-playing vinyl album of Aksel/Axel Schiotz was recorded about the year 1960. I took the trouble to look this up, knowing Schiotz's tragic career turn, and being acquainted with the recordings of both singers. My surmise is correct. Dyer-Bennet became acquainted with Schiotz through a recording. This Danish native discovered as an adult that he had a singing voice, he was singled out from a chorus. Already well educated, he went about getting training in classical singing. This was between the two wars, and by the time Denmark was troubled by the Second war, Schiotz had a career going; he supported the resistance through recordings and, I seem to recall, radio broadcasts (elsewhere I have had to look up Schiotz's story). The recordings, like the rest of his career, stopped when Schiotz was in his vocal prime; he sang tenor, not the big Italianate operatic tenor roles, but Mozart which is something else again, and he was masterful in the oratorio repertoire of Handel, Haydn, et al. He also sang Lieder with an endearing Danish accent. But when Dyer-Bennet went looking for the artist whose recordings had so impressed him, he uncovered the tragedy, already well-known to those of Schiotz's circle. The Dane's life had been saved by surgery on the acoustic nerve, where there was a tumor. Many years later this sort of brain-nerve trouble would be the death of him. For now, it was merely the death of his career, as the resulting nerve damage made neuro-muscular control of his jaw muscles hopelessly flawed. Schiotz did pursue therapy and rehab with enough success to teach, rather than perform; he could vocalize in the baritone range, the tenor high notes were a thing of the past. Dyer-Bennet must have been a stubborn fellow because he was resolved to record Schiotz, regardless, and so he did. I suspect that it is very hard to find this recording anywhere, since it documents an artist who can no longer perform in public and whose singing will never again be what it was. At least, Schiotz and Dyer-Bennet remained lifelong friends. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Thomas Stern Date: 22 Apr 16 - 08:31 AM Hi Keberoxu, I had the privilege of auditing a master class Axel Schiotz gave at the University of Colorado in the 1960's. Even with the severe damage, he sang with great expressiveness and beauty. A marvelous teacher. In addition to his time at the University of Colorado, he taught at San Francisco State College, University of Minnesota, in Toronto, and Copenhagen. For those interested in classical singing, his delightful and informative book is well worth seeking. The Singer and his Art Harper & Row/Harper-Collins, 1969; Hamilton 1971. for songs of the Scandinavian countries: The Aksel Schiøtz Anthology of Nordic Solo Songs, edited by Gerd Schiøtz. Edition Egtved Denmark. For voice and piano. Swedish words; English translations and commentary, including information about the composers and poets. Pref. in English. Includes index. vol. 1, 1984. ISBN 87-7484-020-7. Denmark 100pp. vol. 2, 1985. ISBN 87-7484-021-5. Sweden 94p. vol. 3, 1984. ISBN 87-7484-023-1. Finland vol. 4, 1984. ISBN 87-7484-022-3. Norway vol. 5. 1986. ISBN 87-7484-025-8. Iceland/Faroe Islands 62p. ALL his recordings 1933-1946 are available in an 11-CD set released by DANACORD - available at bargain price. Previously released as 9 single CDs and a 2-CD set. Complete notes included. The Complete Aksel Schiøtz Recordings 1933-1946, vol. 1-10 Vol. 1: DACOCD 451 - Oratorio and Mozart arias 1940-45 Vol. 2: DACOCD 452 - Schubert "Die schöne Müllerin" and rare Grieg works. Vol. 3: DACOCD 453 - Schumann "Dichterliebe" and songs by Brahms, Grieg and Bellman Vol. 4: DACOCD 454 - Hidden treasure records, incl. unfinished "Müllerin" and Mozart test recording Vol. 5: DACOCD 455 - Romances by C.E.F. Weyse and Scandinavian lute songs Vol. 6: DACOCD 456 - Danish Golden Age incl. excerpts from Weyse film 1940 Vol. 7: DACOCD 457 - Songs of summer 1938-40 Danish recordings Vol. 8: DACOCD 458 - Romances by Peter Heise and recordings with newly found Norwegian broadcasts Vol. 9: DACOCD 459 - "Farinelli" and light orchestral songs, incl. rare popular music Vol. 10: DACOCD 460 - The complete Carl Nielsen recordings His recordings are well documented in the Danacord albums, and print discographies: Aksel Schiøtz discography by Knud Thage Petersen, 1948 Nationaldiskoteket. Aksel Schiotz, a discographie. Copenhagen, 1966. One of his daughters BIRGITTE GRIMSTAD has had a successful career as a folk singer, many recordings, and work in children's TV in Denmark and Norway. Best wishes, Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Thomas Stern Date: 22 Apr 16 - 01:12 PM online Aksel Schiotz discography: http://www.the-discographer.dk/opera/aksel-index.htm Cheers, Thos. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: keberoxu Date: 30 May 16 - 04:09 PM This thread has turned into an appreciation of singers of traditional music who are formally schooled in some way, along with a lot of information on singing and being trained in singing. I am very grateful for this thread, it is not only informative but most of it is quite positive and constructive. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: keberoxu Date: 30 May 16 - 09:51 PM And regarding Richard Dyer-Bennet: Big Al Whittle, I know what you mean. I never did hear this artist live, only on recordings. It seems to me he had one of those very character-ful voices that the microphone, and the recording studio, do not reproduce nicely. I can well imagine that his sound in public, in a room or a hall, might have something you can't pin down, that just doesn't get onto recordings. It impresses me to see the repeated statements of how persuasive his singing was in public. Some artists are like that. It happens in opera too, oddly enough, for example in some specialties like the comedies, the Italian opera buffa. You might have a singer who is masterful on the stage, who is wonderful with the text, and who gets away with a minimal voice that could never be used to sing the big tragic operas. In fact there are old recordings out there of such Italian singers. One soprano, who shall remain nameless, from a really long time ago: her recordings make your teeth grit, but it was said of her live performances that she played her voice like a violin. Mr. Dyer-Bennet, from an interview or two of his that I read, thought highly of chamber music and of singers of classical music in an intimate setting: he raved about Phyllis Curtin at the Marlboro Music Festival, for example, and she was classical to the core. |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: Charley Noble Date: 31 May 16 - 08:58 PM Yes, this is one of those wonderful Mudcat threads that should be published. Not only does one learn interesting details about a performer and his life but you also learn about his impact on others. And I had never heard about the Greenwich Village brawl, that Edwin kindly mentioned: 11 Oct 08 - 11:11 PM above. :-) Charlie Ipcar |
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Subject: RE: Richard Dyer-Bennet From: keberoxu Date: 01 Jun 16 - 01:22 PM ...with Leadbelly, yet. That is a classic of a story, especially the manager's punch-line! |
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