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BS: Another Bush war? (Bush, Iraq)
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Kim C Date: 29 Aug 02 - 02:05 PM Maybe we should just challenge him to a game of Risk. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Don Firth Date: 29 Aug 02 - 02:27 PM General Norman Schwarzkopf, who has had some experience in the Middle East as you may recall, is opposed to going to war with Iraq. So are a great many military experts. In a recent speech, General Anthony Zinni (ret.) listed many reasons to avoid war in Iraq, stressing that the move would only injure U.S. diplomacy with its allies, while causing a fiery chain reaction throughout the Islamic world. General Zinni, who once commanded the entire U.S. military in the Middle East, says he's not the only former general who opposes it. But the Bush administration doesn't want to hear that. Zinni noted that "all the generals see it the same way, but those who have never fired a shot in anger are hell-bent on going to war." Suppose Hussein actually does have a functioning nuke or two and he's sitting there gloating over what he might do with them. I can't think of a better way to guarantee that he would use them than to initiate a war with Iraq. On the other hand, even he can't be so stupid as to realize that, were he to use a nuclear weapon, the whole world would come down on him like a ton of bricks. The first one to use a nuclear weapon opens the door for nuclear weapons to be used in retaliation. Lovely! Armageddon! That'll bring joy to the hearts of the millenialists! The U. S. government has a policy of refusing to talk to people it doesn't like (or can't use). We cut off diplomatic relations, thereby cutting off any possibility of meaningful communication. In the meantime, the disliked person goes his merry way and seems to live a long and fairly productive life not giving diddly-squat whether we like him or not. Castro leaps to mind. And Saddam Hussein looks like another. As a result, other than engendering hostility, we have no chance of exercising any kind of control or influence. This sometimes seems like the policy of a petulant three-year-old. Sure, Hussein's a son-of-bitch and a tin-pot tyrant, but (and I'm sure there are those out there who will say this is painfully naïve of me) other than looming over him and making threats, has anybody actually tried to talk to the man lately? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: NicoleC Date: 29 Aug 02 - 02:39 PM Sorry about the errant HTML code there. I wasn't shouting :) I'm with you in hoping that all the saber-rattling is just that. Even though Saddam was making overtures to the west long before the recent round of threatening, if Bushie can make it look like he's the one that made it happen, it'll be a PR coup. And he's succeeding, because most Americans seem to be swallowing the idea. In my gut, though, I really think that Bush Jr. doesn't take the repercussions of military action in an already inflammatory area very seriously, and he should. I don't think most of his cabinet are taking it very seriously. And that's the truly scary part, not that a war with a little pissant country like Iraq might happen, but that the folks deciding whether or not we go to war aren't really thinking this through. But I hope I get proved wrong. There's something to be said for sending out the champions for single combat to the death, huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: bradfordian Date: 29 Aug 02 - 06:11 PM 29 Aug: George Bush / Dick Cheney what a pair a of war mongers!!! God help the world. Sure Hussian may well be unstable, but hell, if you try and persecute Joe Public before he has committed a cime, the lawyers would have a field day. Even paedophiles have to be caught doing something wrong first! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Bobert Date: 29 Aug 02 - 07:08 PM Well, me and my trusty Wes Ginny slide rule been workin' on that nuclear device thing and no matter how many X's and Y's we use, these are the findings: ***** Our chances of someone building a nuke in a rowboat and floating into the New York harbor increase porportionately with the number of folks we blow up.***** I knew Junior had problems with his figurator and now, in spite of those folks who are comforted having Dick around, I think he might have similar wiring problems! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Amos Date: 29 Aug 02 - 07:13 PM Dang, BO-Bert, when'd'ja lurn that slippery stick trick?? Ah's so i,pressed Ah almoas' droppt mah Texas Instrument, an' ya KNOW thuh Fair Ladies 'ud neveah forgive ya fer makin' THAYUT happen!! **BOSEG** But even my Texas Instrument tells me yer basic parameters are keereckly estimigiggered to about three deshimayuls, so you-all mus' be doin' somethin' righyat ovuh theyah. ":?>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Bobert Date: 29 Aug 02 - 07:45 PM Man, I though my typin' was bad, Amos. How you play musuc with so little dexlecterity anyway? But, et is good to hear that mountin dire-lect. Bo-bert, no, Bobber, no, danged... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: InOBU Date: 30 Aug 02 - 08:20 AM As to what I have to say in this conversation, American policy has been to keep the rest of the world, especially the raw material prodicing world, simmering but not boiling over, well the result of this attemt is now costing us freedoms at home... so the rest of what I have to say about this is... Scales of Revenge Words Lorcan Otway, Tune Traditional, Willy Of Windsburry from the singing of the great Anne Briggs. Oh America's fired a cruse missile, and it's killed my brother's son Now I must put my hopes aside and learn the way of the gun Oh why and how can they do such things, why bring such grief to me Now I will go and seek revenge for my faith and my dignity
Oh some men from Saudi Arabia, have killed my old school friend He was never a part of any war, why bring him this awful end? Oh why and how can they do such things, why bring this grief to me, Now I will go and seek revenge for my friend and for my country
Oh the helicopters came last night, and we fled into the dark But American bullets flew from above, killing my wife, my love, Oh why and how can they do these things, why bring this grief to me, As generations of Afghans before, I'll defend this poor country My son, my son, he will never return, in a foreign war he lies slain He was fighting for his home and hearth, on some barren Afghani plain Oh why and how can they do these things, why bring such grief to me Send troops send troops, to far Iraq, to stop this insanity And here I sit and I watch the world, as blood is shed for blood And I can only wonder why and how can we stem this flood Oh why oh how can they do such things, on justice's bloody path, And who will be left to say in the end, we've balanced the scales at last
Don't stop, don't stop for our martyred dead, or an inch of blood soaked soil, But stop oh stop for the love of your child, in fields of hope now toil Oh how oh why can't we begin, by putting grief behind We can not ever pay for the dead, by paying another in kind.
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: artbrooks Date: 30 Aug 02 - 08:40 AM Larry, the only problem with that song is that the damn thing keeps being timely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: InOBU Date: 30 Aug 02 - 11:13 AM Thanks Art, I hope folks sing it until it isn't. Cheers Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Aug 02 - 08:51 PM "Lets see. There's this one country which is stock-piling weapons of mass destruction and hell bent on attacking another country.
And then there is Iraq..." A letter in Friday's Guardian expands on what Bagpuss said up the thread:
There are analogies between the international situation now and in the 1930s (Searching for a new hero: why America has turned to Winston Churchill, August 29). Then, as now, a minority political clique gained control of a great military and economic power, after an ambiguous and manipulated electoral process. Then, as now, they used propaganda to amplify a burning, but unfocused, sense of popular insecurity and grievance. Minorities were scapegoated - then socialists and Jews, now Muslims. Then as now, international agreements and obligations were set aside, as, increasingly, were aspects of the rule of law, while the major supranational organisation was too weak and disunited to act effectively. Threats and grievances were amplified in the public mind to justify aggression. Thus, domestic opinion was carried along in the rush to re-armament and war, the opposition cowed into silence by the fear of appearing unpatriotic.
(For the rest of that letter, by a Dr EC Hulme of St Albans, Herts, click here.)
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Amos Date: 30 Aug 02 - 09:30 PM Just to keep the record clear, those torched and ruined bodies at the bottom of the WTC were not opinions. I see nothing patriotic about Bush's warmongering stance; but I do think we need to remember there is a material beginning to this confrontation. And if you want to talk about setting aside the rule of law, a few of those passengers might have had a few thoughts on the matter before they were slaughtered. I am not trying to fan the flames of blind aggression or blind compliancxe to creeping facism. But let us please keep all the facts on the table. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Don Firth Date: 30 Aug 02 - 09:40 PM McGrath, thanks for the link to The Guardian. I read the letter, then ran a search for the article it refers to and read it. In fact, I bookmarked the site and I'll be back a lot, because the news services in the States are frequently deficient in giving a global picture of what's really going on (big flamin' surprise!). This I hadn't heard! George W. Bush keeps a bust of Winston Churchill in his office and compares himself to Churchill? Sweet weeping Jesus! We are DOOMED!!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: michaelr Date: 30 Aug 02 - 09:50 PM Don -- we very well may be. As to the news here being deficient, check this out: WorldLink TV. Alternative news AND music! Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: artbrooks Date: 30 Aug 02 - 10:36 PM There are very few people out there who would disagree that Saddam Hussain is a pimple on the face of humanity. However, in the spirit of keeping all of the facts on the table, and not comparing apples to rutabegas, please keep in mind that there is absolutely nothing to link him to the 9/11 attacks. Believe it, if there were we would be hearing nothing else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: NicoleC Date: 30 Aug 02 - 11:48 PM Islam in the Middle East has always been barely tolerated in the US by the status quo, despite it's growing popularity here. When you combine that with the economic dependance we have on the Middle East and the fanaticism that arises anywhere you combine abject poverty with deep religious convictions... well, the boiling cauldron of oil shouldn't be a surprise. In the aftermath of 9/11, it's hard for anyone to maintain perspective about the region when you already have a widespread residual prejudice against people who share the same socio-religious background as a bunch of murders who carefully plan ways to kill anyone they disagree with. So now Iraq has ceased offering anything resembling the olive branch in the wake of the latest grandstanding from Washington. Gee... what a surprise! Since when do petty dictators -- particular fundmendalist Islamic ones, do anything but get stubborn and defiant in the face of Western bullying??? There is nothing that Iraq can do to appease the US, and it's been stated quite clearly that the US wants regime change, not inspectors. Time for a pet peeve -- I hate hearing how Iraq "threw out" the weapons inspectors. The weapons inspectors were withdrawn by the US in 1998 because they said Iraq wasn't cooperating, and we wanted our people out before we bombed them. "Cooperating" in this case meant that the "inspectors" -- US spies -- wanted full access to things like Saddam's private home. Oh yeah, there's a weapons factory in the basement! Then Iraq refused to let the inspectors back in after they were subjected to another round of aerial death. Right or wrong, I'm tired of hearing about how Iraq "kicked out" the inspectors. They did no such thing, it's just propaganda at it's best. Honestly, though, I'm starting to feel a little optimistic about the Iraq situation. Regular people in the US are talking about whether it's right or wrong. Even if Bush goes ahead, as tragic as that will be to the everyday citizens of Iraq who get killed in the process, the fact that a dialogue is taking place is a sign that democracy may be very ill, but it's still alive and it's not going down without a fight. I haven't seen people (other than the usual left or right wing activists) talking seriously about politics in almost a year... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: DougR Date: 31 Aug 02 - 02:56 AM I have read all of the posts in this thread very carefully, and have tried to be as fair in my assessment of them as I can. As most of you know, I am a conservative, and to support the current administration. What I deduce from reading the many posts in this thread, though, is you folks really don't trust Bush and Cheney, right? DougR DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: InOBU Date: 31 Aug 02 - 09:14 AM Dear DougR:... Ahhh duh.... Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: artbrooks Date: 31 Aug 02 - 10:09 AM Actually, Doug, I do trust them...to do what is absolutely wrong from my personal perspective. Where's Harry Truman when you need him? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: GUEST,sorefingers Date: 31 Aug 02 - 10:15 AM Reading the thread scares me silly! Hey it would not have mattered who was in the White House they would still need to do something! GW is no Einstein but he is no coward, how he gets rid of that monster is not an issue. Saddam is a criminal of the worst kind, like a crooked cop he wallows in official authority as he gasses, tortures etc innocent civilians to death. Left to do his dirt he will become something far far worse than Adolf the ashman or Joe the fertilizerman. For the record - nobody seems to notice or care about the economics of the Oil game. US Oil imports from Saudi = 1 million barrels per day ... US Oil imports from Iraq = 8 hundred thousand barrels per day.
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: NicoleC Date: 31 Aug 02 - 11:02 AM Doug, I trust them. To place their personal profit and desires above the good of the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: DougR Date: 31 Aug 02 - 01:03 PM I love you folks, I truly do! Sorefingers, I don't know how you got them and surely sore fingers can cause a lot of discomfort, but I'd suggest in a most friendly way that your fingers in this thread are not what is at risk. You better duck your head! :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Don Firth Date: 31 Aug 02 - 01:19 PM Sense of history, sorefingers. Hitler was a homicidal maniac who had a world view, the backing of most of the powerful people in one of the most powerful countries in Europe, and a massive military machine at his command. Hussein is a petty tyrant in a second-rate country where a lot of people hate him, and his military is a rag-tag, ill-equipped rabble. One of the parallels with Nazi Germany that really bothers me is how they systematically eroded the rights of their own citizens by invoking visions of outside threats, then accused those who questioned this of lack of patriotism. And you just said the magic word. Oil. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Amos Date: 31 Aug 02 - 01:24 PM Energy and water folks -- if we can cure those, the world will reinvent itself in a whole new balance, for better or worse. Being as deeply invested in oil as Bush-head is is kinda like being the king of Buckboard manufacturing in 1902. Y'ever notice how fast buggy whips went out of style? How often do you hear people complain "Why cancha find a really good Conestoga maker when ya need one!!". Mene tekel ipse facto, Georgie boy!! Thy day approacheth. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Peg Date: 31 Aug 02 - 01:37 PM George Bush isn't a coward??? HUH? Why then did he hide his candy ass in planes (or who knows where) for an entire day while Manhattan burned? Small wonder people practically canonized Rudy Giuliani (previously thought a fascist by many New Yorkers) for his leadership at this time; where was our fearless leader? Sorry but I see NO excuse for a president to allow himself to be spirited away while the country is under siege. Where is Jed "I'm not going to the bunker" Bartlet when you need him?
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Bobert Date: 31 Aug 02 - 02:25 PM No, sorefingers, it certainly isn't lost upon anyone, especially oil man Junior Bush Laden, that 75% of Iraq'a oil ends up in the tanks of our beat up Toyotas and Fords right here in the US. Do you really think that the big oil companies don't make a profit on imported oil, or what? If you'll revisit your arguement you'll find what a lot of use have been saying all along. Put two rich oilmen in charge and this crap is what you're gonna get. Ain't rocket science. Now throw in the corporate bed buddies of the folks who make war products and you'll plainly see that working class America has and is about to be severly duped in the name of national security... Mark ol' bobert's words here. When the smoke clears from Junior and Dick's self serving administartion, the country will be emersed in deficits from his perchant for blowing folks up and giving away money to his rich friends and the average worker will be worse off then they've been in 25 to 30 years, with less access to health care, working longer and harder with a totally bungled up Social Security system. Impeach these fool while there's any hope for America... They gotta a go... Save our Country... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Aug 02 - 06:18 PM "GW is no Einstein but he is no coward" As he demonsrated during the Vietnam War?
Keeping out of a war because you think it's wrong and you want no part of it is one thing; but Bush supported that war while making damn sure that he kept out of harm's way, while other people, without the connections and the friends in high places, went out there. I wouldn't say that someone who does that "is no coward." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Amos Date: 31 Aug 02 - 06:28 PM Perhaps managing an international bloodbath will help him overcome his fears! A therapeutic experience!! Therapy is costly, sure, but think of the benefits!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: DougR Date: 31 Aug 02 - 07:50 PM I am trying to remember, McGrath, if you heaped similar words of praise upon our previous president on his behaviour during the Viet Nam conflict. Bush at least served in the National Guard. Heck, with all the money he made from oil, he could even have immigrated to Canada! Bobert, old buddy, I'm so glad you are breaking your posts into paragraphs now. I read all of 'em now! DougR
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Bobert Date: 31 Aug 02 - 09:14 PM Well, danged, Dougie. Makes ol' Bobert all choked up knowin' that you're actaully reading my posts. Really does. Now, I know you're a man of few words. Kinda Kendallish in that way. But Junior is depending on you to do more that crituque mu writing style. You're 'sposed to be defending him. Hmmmmmmm? Maybe ol' Doug has figured out that there us no defense for crappy and mean-spirited policies? Think we got a closet commie here, folks. Come on out, Doug. Come on out... The truth will set ya' free... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war averted? From: GUEST,Taliesn Date: 01 Sep 02 - 05:05 AM Well aparently the collective voice of the Mudcatters has "single-handedly" worked its magic on the White House ( well , it's a nice fantasy anyway ) because Pres. Muppet Dubya's P.R. brigade has apparently taken great effort to "get out that message" that *he* has *no plans* yet. Well gloooooory Be, who'd a thunk it that admitting he was ,indeed , clueless ( the emperor has no plans ) would be considered good P.R. Anybody care to dispute that this all reads like confirmation that he hadn't *Clue One* from the start when he first started to make the "War on Iraq" speeches that were written for him? Should prove interestingppose this glaring "back-peddling" will surface on the Sunday News programs in some form or another. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Sep 02 - 08:37 AM Doug, as I said, it's one thing to evade a war you are opposed to, but getting out of one you are in favour of is something else. And there has never been any hint that Bush at any time opposed the Vietnam War.
Getting a student deferment isn't the bravest way of keeping out of being called up. But on the other hand to go and fight in a war you are opposed to can also be a form of moral cowardice.
But in any case the quote I was commenting on was about Bush, and saying "he is no coward". It wasn't about Clinton, who I'd see as a pretty unsavoury sort of character as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: DougR Date: 01 Sep 02 - 01:35 PM Tailesn: you certainly were correct about the Sunday "talk" shows. They even have the governor of Minnesota on CNN to offer his opinion of the situation. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ole' Bobert or Kendall to pop up next. :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Sep 02 - 02:43 PM Yeah, Taliesn, in response to a lot of bellicose talk, Bush notes that it isn't going over all that well with the diplomatic corps, with the military, and with the public, so suddenly he has "no plans." I thought someone was supposed to beep when they back up like that. Look for some kind of major policy address on September 11th. It'll be interesting. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Sep 02 - 06:39 PM When a politician says they have no plans to do something that is generally taken to mean that they have every expectation of doing it, but it's not convenient at this time to say so.
For example, if Daddy Bush had said "Watch my lips - I have no plans to raise taxes," he'd have been home clear, because he'd have avoided making any commitment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Bobert Date: 01 Sep 02 - 06:49 PM As long as Senior Bush Laden is still breathing you can bet that Junior will do everything he can to nail Saddam. Hey, he's just following orders... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Sep 02 - 07:11 PM Today's Observer has an interesting piece pointing out that at the time Saddam was using poison gas, both against Iranian troops, and Kurdish oppenenys, and killimng thousands of civilians inthe priocess, he was actually having his back protected bythe US. He was seen as the good guy in the war he started against Iran, and a few atrocities like thta weren't seen as too significant:
As Iraq's use of poison gases in war and in peace was public knowledge, the question arises: what did the United States administration do about it then?
Absolutely nothing. Indeed, so powerful was the grip of the pro-Baghdad lobby on the administration of Republican President Ronald Reagan that it got the White House to foil the Senate's attempt to penalise Iraq for its violation of the Geneva Protocol on Chemical Weapons to which it was a signatory.
This made Saddam believe that the US was his firm ally - a deduction that paved the way for his brutal invasion and occupation of Kuwait and the 1991 Gulf war, the outcomes of which have not yet fully played themselves out.
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Venthony Date: 02 Sep 02 - 12:25 AM The level political discourse on this site is so puerile that it sinks beneath any rational response. All I can say is -- as a proud conservative and member-in-good-standing of the GOP -- that no less than Christopher Hitchens, of "Beat the Devil" fame, is one of my very favorite journalists and authors. He says almost nothing with which I agree, but he is rational and convincing and ethical and brilliant -- and a flawless wordsmith; and he makes me think. On occasion, he even moderates my views. You folks, by contrast, seem able only to name-call and hurl vulgar cliches filched from the commonest of the common press. I know some of you read good books, and that the best of you even know how to think for yourselves. So prove it with something besides cynicism, cheap shots and street-corner rhetoric. Sincere best wishes. Tony |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Venthony Date: 02 Sep 02 - 01:16 AM My last post was rude and ill-considered. Bobbert et al just get under my skin sometimes, which of course they have every right to do. Forgive the insensitive and impolite flame. Best to all, Tony
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 02 - 01:44 AM Well, Tony, we all have bad days once in a while. There's a certain art to biting your otngue at the right moments, and NOT at other times!! Better we should all study it! You are certainly not the first, nor the last, to vent more than you wish you had! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Bobert Date: 02 Sep 02 - 10:17 AM Tony, Sorry to have gotten under your skin. Tell ya' what. I'll make you a deal. You come up with book written by a conservative author that you want me to read and I'll read it if you will read Greg Palast's "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy". It's not that I don't have knowledge or ideas here. It's just that there are a lot of folks who have studied history and been around for a few decades in the trenches fighting for the working man, who now look at an administration which is Hell bent on repeating behavior expecting different results... This ain't about the definition os "is" or some Whitehouse intern, it's about the blatent assault on the Bill of Rights and a quick trigger finger. Now, do we have a deal, Tony? Don't confuse my poor typing skills, my severe dyxlexia or my hillbilly act for a lack of intellegence. Yeah, I may read slowly, but I remember well. Regards. the Bobert
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Greg F. Date: 02 Sep 02 - 10:59 AM Correction: Baby Bush did manage to get into the National Guard, thru Daddy Bush's influence, to keep him out of the real war by defending Texans from Viet Cong invaders, but he did NOT "serve". As the official service records clearly indicate, he was AWOL for two thirds of his National Guard stint, and was never prosecuted. Imagine that! - a Real Hero- another chickenhawk. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Sep 02 - 12:07 PM What's "conservative" and "liberal" got to do with issues of whether or not it's right to make a particular war in particular circumstances?
There are people to whom either label (and quite a few more - those aren't the only political options, by a long way) on both sides on this issue. Waving labels like that around just serves to divert discussion into matters of less immediate significance.
And the same applies in respect of all kind of other matters where, for some reason, people seem to think that those labels coincide with divisions of opinion, when they just do not. Capital punishment, global warming, fox-hunting, gun control... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: GUEST,Taliesn Date: 02 Sep 02 - 12:24 PM (quote) "As the official service records clearly indicate, he was AWOL for two thirds of his National Guard stint, and was never prosecuted. Imagine that! - a Real Hero- another chickenhawk." "Chickenhawk George".... I like that one. Has a certain ring to it. "Let me tell ya 'bout a story of a Chickenhawk George, and with his family's wealth, the personality he'd forge. and then one day he woke a head state, just in time for the 2nd Iraq-gate. It's over Oil that is, unfinished bidness, Texas pride " with apologies to the Clampets..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Bobert Date: 02 Sep 02 - 12:27 PM Excellent point, McGrath. The labels tend to be quite misleading and purposely counterproductive. It is the issues that are paramount and not the fraternal squabbling sideshow that tends to push itself into the forefront. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: DougR Date: 02 Sep 02 - 12:52 PM Hey, Greg F., where you been? I wondered when you might show up in this thread. I've missed you! I wasn't aware that one's service records was public information. Where did you find it? It would be interesting to look up several people's service records. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Sep 02 - 12:53 PM McGrath, the Sage of Harlow, has a knack for cutting to the heart of the matter. I don't regard myself as either "liberal" or "conservative," and it tends to get up my nose when I venture an opinion or quote a fact and someone given to kneejerk reactions simply dismisses what I say by calling my a name. It allows them to avoid having to a)answer b)think. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Amos Date: 02 Sep 02 - 01:18 PM Welcome to the sorry assed species of Homo Sap, Don -- avoiding thought is what we do best! If you need your thoughts avoided effectively, call on us!! Bias, conclusive ignorance, black screens, shallow diversions, flippant rejections and glumly endless apathetic nothing applied with the very best modern techniques. Blind spots a specialty. You'll never see your unwanted thoughts again! Call today! Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: Bobert Date: 02 Sep 02 - 02:10 PM Well, the title of the thread is "Another Bush War" so it does stand to reason that Bush might find himself on the main stage of this thread. I don't think is off limits to question: 1. The links between the Bin Laden and Bush families. 2. Bush's military record. 3. The fact that Iraq recives $6B from the US for it's oil. 4. That Bush and Cheney are oil men and continue to have close ties to the industry. 5. That it can be forcefilly argued that an attack on Iraq increases the chance of one day having a family member of a killed Iraqi float a boat with a nuclear device up the Potomac River. 6. That those corporations which will porfit the most from a hot war in Iraq are arms manufacturers which have close ties to the party the now possesses the White House. 7. That, as a result of a hot war in Iraq, the federal budget will continue to tilt further toward the "defense" department and further away from social programs. 8. That perhaps the dialogue on the internet has brought about some reconsiderations for a war on Iraq. 9. That a war on Saddam need not be a war on Iraq, and 10. That perhaps rather than attacking Iraq, Bush could call for a Middle East Peace Summit, including members of the PLO, with the aim of furthering the basic elements of the Saudi proposals. Okay, now 'ol Bobert has put up enough stuff to keep a few folks busy firing back, but, hey, we might have strayed off course and and the "new and improved" Bobert has not once used the following words: Junior, Senior, Bin Laden or knucklehead. And I've followed Doug's advice with the paragraph thing (kind of...). Peace Or no war... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Another Bush war? From: kendall Date: 02 Sep 02 - 02:44 PM Actually, Bush and Churchill do have something in common; Being drunks! The shrub didn't serve in the National Guard, that's why he didn't bash Clinton, and, at least, Clinton wasn' t such a hypocrite as to wear a flight jacket! Tony, I as a democrat, do much more than rant, and if I were you I would remember one of the less appealing sides of your party. The Dirty Tricks dept. It's still at work, even here in Maine. A local democrat rep. to the legislature just bought a summer camp on the beach, and his republican rivals want the secretary of state to declare him unqualified because he "moved out of his district"! This is the kind of nit picking, narrow minded, self serving judgemental crap that we have come to expect from your party. Notice, I am attacking some of your members, not you, even though you painted all democrats as "ranters". |