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BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3 (Bush, Iraq)

Amos 09 Sep 02 - 10:05 AM
Amos 09 Sep 02 - 10:00 AM
Amos 09 Sep 02 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,Kiwi Folk Singer 09 Sep 02 - 05:25 AM
Amos 09 Sep 02 - 12:32 AM
Amos 09 Sep 02 - 12:17 AM
Bobert 08 Sep 02 - 08:39 PM
NicoleC 08 Sep 02 - 08:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Sep 02 - 08:09 PM
Amos 08 Sep 02 - 06:52 PM
DougR 08 Sep 02 - 06:04 PM
Amos 08 Sep 02 - 06:00 PM
DougR 08 Sep 02 - 05:39 PM
Amos 08 Sep 02 - 05:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Sep 02 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Richard H 08 Sep 02 - 02:18 PM
Amos 08 Sep 02 - 01:20 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Sep 02 - 01:04 PM
Peg 08 Sep 02 - 01:00 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Sep 02 - 12:51 PM
Bobert 08 Sep 02 - 12:49 PM
Troll 08 Sep 02 - 09:32 AM
kendall 08 Sep 02 - 06:56 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 08 Sep 02 - 02:25 AM
Amos 08 Sep 02 - 01:46 AM
GUEST,Richard H 08 Sep 02 - 01:32 AM
GUEST,Clint Keller 08 Sep 02 - 12:16 AM
Peg 08 Sep 02 - 12:02 AM
Ebbie 07 Sep 02 - 11:58 PM
Bobert 07 Sep 02 - 11:27 PM
DougR 07 Sep 02 - 09:40 PM
kendall 07 Sep 02 - 07:45 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 07 Sep 02 - 04:04 PM
NicoleC 07 Sep 02 - 03:26 PM
GUEST,Clint Keller 07 Sep 02 - 02:57 PM
Ebbie 07 Sep 02 - 02:44 PM
GUEST,Clint Keller 07 Sep 02 - 02:39 PM
kendall 07 Sep 02 - 02:30 PM
Bobert 07 Sep 02 - 01:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Sep 02 - 01:23 PM
Amos 07 Sep 02 - 01:09 PM
Amos 07 Sep 02 - 01:00 PM
Peg 07 Sep 02 - 12:41 PM
DougR 07 Sep 02 - 12:28 PM
kendall 07 Sep 02 - 12:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Sep 02 - 11:23 AM
Amos 07 Sep 02 - 11:12 AM
Bobert 07 Sep 02 - 10:46 AM
DougR 07 Sep 02 - 01:09 AM
NicoleC 06 Sep 02 - 11:22 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:05 AM

This thread being nearly 100 posts in length, a FOURTH segment can be found over here.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 10:00 AM

Apparently the real scoop on Iraq's efforts to build nuclear weapons is being provided by defectors from Hussein's nuclear program.

The analysis found here in the NY Times is infomrative.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 09:30 AM

Kiwi,

I'm terribly sorry but it seems to me the notion that George Bush OR the CIA organized the destruction of last September to be abysmally paranoid and unreal. THere have already been published interviews with those who organized it.

I concur with your opinion about the Environmental Summit, generally, but let's not go over the edge just because we're a bunch of tree-hugging pink-and-green commie punks here!! LOL!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: GUEST,Kiwi Folk Singer
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 05:25 AM

"Weapons of Mass destruction"."Bully States" Has Bush ever looked in a mirror. Perhaps the CIA organized the Sept 11th. attack so that Bush could grab the moral high ground and invade Afganistan for it's oil and gas pipe line. Better beat the Russians and the Chinese. Now he is turning his attention to another oil reserve. It would have been much better for him to have supproted the Earth Environmental Summit than make a world wide energy grab for his own personal vested interests.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 12:32 AM

Not to sound too much like an Enquirer reader, but the wire services are carrying an interesting story on an interview with Saddam's ex-mistress which has plenty of juicy gossip in it.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 09 Sep 02 - 12:17 AM

Jeez, Bobert, we only got put on the list 24 hours ago and I been demoted from VP to State already!!!! But, what the hey, if that's what you need, I'll play ball. I guess I'm responsible for the State of Things, but not the State of Affairs, right? Cuz, well, you understand, I don't go in for them. :<>)

Anyway you're off to a riproaring start. Good idea keeping DougR up close where you can keep an eye on him...

LOL!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 08:39 PM

Well. If elected, I'm gonna follow Amos's advice in recodifying the nations laws. And while I'm at it we're gonna have to reorganize the government a tad.

First of all, the electorial college is out. Gone. History. Kaput...

Now for Vice President, I want Little Hawk, not because of any other reason but the simple fact that the rest of you guys the country needs else where.

Dept of Interior: Ebbie, whop will save them trees and owls fir our kids.

Transportation: Fionn (think trains and monorails)

State: Amos, hands down

Defense: Kendall. Ya need amna man who says a lot with so few words because that gonna translate to, ahhh, not a lot of fightin' with folks. Heck, he'll just tell out adversaries stories and bring 'em to theur knees in laughter. Hard to aim them rockets when you're laughin'. Right

Eduction: This is Kats without a second thought. Just don't make me learn to do no bluey things. Them is fir kids. And smart folks...

Department of Laughs: The Spawzman hisself. Hey, don't laugh (no... do) becuase this is gonna be a very not so serious department.

Health: McGrath, because of smartness and we're gonna need that in a nation that charges way too much for so little in return. And doctors are gonna have to be trained in actaully diagnosing, sonething that the medical profession is lacking these days...

Department of Peace: NicoleCastle. Go get 'em. You can do it! Make peace fashionable.... I know you can do it

Press Secretary: This one is easy. Ya' gotta have someone who can mix it up and satnf tall: Peg

Special Advisor to the President: Waht, did you peek? Okay, the cat's out of the bag, so to speak. My friend....DougR. Who else? Hey, I don't have to follow hus advice but I do very much want to know what's on his mind....

Other advisors: Teliesn, Jerry Rassmussen, Bill and Rita, Greg and Kate (sans the chainsaw, than you), troll #1 and troll # 36, Chance (guitars)....

Still taking application for unfilled positions

Yeah, we're gonna need someone for Commerace. Must have socialist tendacies and think that worker owned businesses are the way of the future.

Welfare: Forget it. We won't need it. We're gonna up the minimum wage to a point where everyone will want to work...

Did I leave anyone or anything out?

Heck, last night I didn't have a clue Uz was gonna be in charge so Iz kinda feeling it out as I go.

But one heck of a cabinet!!!!

Thank you for your support.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: NicoleC
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 08:19 PM

Uh, folks, the Prez doesn't get to pick the Speaker of the House. That'd mean Doug was the senior member of the majority party of the House. Green Prez, Republican Congress... nothing would ever get done. Sounds about right for the government :)

If we're gonna start a what-would-you-do, just the domestic agenda:

1) Flat tax, no deductions of any kind.
2) Single-payer healthcare system, not including cosmetic and fertility services; private health insurance companies welcome to compete. (Yeah, yeah, I know. The country's not ready for it. This is fantasy.)
3) Elimination of all subsidies and special tax breaks for fossil fuel energy providers and makers of equipment that uses it.
4) Redirect tax incentives as grants and funds -- temporarily -- to energy companies and makers of equipment who invest research and development into renewable energy sources. (Like the CA Fuel Cell Partnership.) Big help for early adopters, no help for laggards. Additional funds for national public awareness campaign, similar to the highly successful recycling and forest fire campaigns.
5) Forget the rhetoric and actually work toward a more flexible, smarter military. Billions for failed projects are gone, but enlisted men need to get salaries that can support a family. The fact that many of our enlisted men have to use food stamps and welfare to support a small family is shameful.
6) Moritorium on genetically engineered foods pending thorough safety trials. Medicinal plants grown in clean-room conditions excepted; they've already undergone clinical trials.
7) Work with existing NGO gun clubs and safety organizations to establish a basic gun safety licensing test along the same lines as a driver's license test.
8) Strengthen National School Lunch Program to provide *healthy* meals, not just any meal. A bagel for breakfast and a piece of pizza for lunch does not meet the mandate to provide nutricious food.
9) Roll back direct government influence of non-citizen groups, like corporations and special interest groups. These groups are free to influence voters, but since they do not have the same responsibilities as citizens they should not have the same priviledges.
10) Increase public interest in government by reaching out to teenagers and college students and other groups which are either typical disenfranchised or will be entering the voting pool soon.

Egad, I could go on and on...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 08:09 PM

"taxation per se will never be treated as anything but a civil issue".

I know it's drift, but I get curious. Would that mean that not paying your taxes could never be a matter for criminal prosecution? Al Capone would have backed that one all right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 06:52 PM

Hot DAMN!!! We done found the MIDDLE GROUND!! Oyez, Oyez!!

Now I have to go find a grinning psychic and slap her face.

Why?

My mother always told me to strike a happy medium...

(Duck and exit stage left)...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: DougR
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 06:04 PM

Uh, is this the Amos that has been posting regularly to the Mudcat? If so, we agree on something at least. :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 06:00 PM

I can think of a few really good reasons for one.

We could use a healthy cleansing of the complex and highly corrupt collection of implanted, over-grown, intertwined, over complicated laws governing the country, and we for sure could use an overhaul to the process by which they are generated by slicing and swapping pork. That ain't the way policy should be born. One good idea would be to do a healthy skeptical review to detemrine where States' rights had been eroded by the Federal mandates and restore them.

A second would be to institute a Constitutional limit on total taxation and a commitment that taxation per se will never be treated as anything but a civil issue.

If we at the same time dropped all the protective exceptions and variations in the tax code in favor of a low, direct simple assessment, paid by all individuals and all institutions equally, we'd probably skyrockett the Federal revenues, at a guess, and would certainly stimulate the economy. Then we could put all those out-of-work IRS accountants to work finding sources of inefficiency and fat in the Federal budget. Yeehaw.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: DougR
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 05:39 PM

Uh, sorry Peg. I'm retired.

Richard H., your last post leads me to believe you have not read all of the posts in this thread. Bobert and DougR on the same ticket? Not likely. :>) Bobert just included me in the group because he needs somebody to pick on. By then, Bush would be history so he wouldn't be around (unless, ((gasp!)) Bobert is talking r-e-v-o-l-u-t-i-o-n!).

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 05:13 PM

Well, I'd suggest the first thing we do, if we is gonna pursue this war thing, is find out who the war is against and then see if we can get some dialogue going. This bomb plantiing and such has just got to stop.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 04:32 PM

But you'll note the people who planted that bomb nade sure to get off the plane so as not to be killed themselves. That makes it all completely different...

Otherwise of course any war on terrorism would have to start at home, and that wouldn't do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: GUEST,Richard H
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 02:18 PM

Begging leave to petition the new Bobert/DougR US Administration:

Sirs,

On October 6, 1976, two anti-Castro terrorists got off a Cubana DC8 aircraft in Barbados, leaving on board an activated magnetic bomb.

The bomb exploded shortly after take-off. All 15 crew and 58 passengers were killed despite brave efforts to get back to land.

The Florida-based group "El Condor" said the attack was to teach Caribbean countries not to be too friendly with Castro.

The perpetrators were arrested in Venezuela but "escaped" back to America. It is believed that these terrorists were "trained, directed, financed and protected" by the CIA. Dr. Orlando Bosch certainly has a long association with the CIA and apparently "lives in Miami with total impunity and is still active in terrorism."

Addressing the UN on Nov 15 last year after 9/11, the Barbados Foreign Minister expressed our deep-felt sympathy and understanding for the American people, and referred to the Cubana incident: "Although the masterminds of that attack were identified and apprehended, they were never punished for their crime, but instead encouraged to remain actively engaged in their campaign of terror."

The governments of Cuba, Barbados and Guyana (there were 11 Guyanese students on board) have repeatedly asked the USA to let these terrorists be put on trial but they remain under US protection.

So, how about it, Prez Bobert and Speaker Doug? Are you willing to show the world you're serious about dealing with terrorists no matter whose side they're on?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 01:20 PM

No, it was Bobert who got named as Prez. First thing we'll do is expand the parking lot in theback of the White House for all them 1975-1989 Chevettes and Pintos, I reckon. And LUV trucks!!   Peg, I am pure-dee honored. If nominated, I will run, and if elected I will serve.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 01:04 PM

With Joe Offer for President I take it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Peg
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 01:00 PM

I wanna be Secretary of State. Has a nice ring. And I am cuter than Madeleine (but Colin I have to say gives me a run for my money; Now if they would just let the poor man DO HIS JOB).

Amos: Vice President Kendall: Chief of Staff McGrath: Deputy Chief of Staff Nicole: Press Secretary katlaughing: EPA Director Fionn: National Security Adviser DougR: Speaker for the House


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 12:51 PM

Now if Bush were a statesman he'd announce on September 11 that the USA was in favour of universal arms inspections to verify the facts about what weapons of mass destruction are in existence, and who has them, and what can be done to make sure they are never used.

He'd say it was crazy for the idea of such inspections to be seen just as some kind of punishment only to be imposed on countries with a bad record. They should be part of a regular system of arms control. After all, we've got a system of roadworthiness tests for all vehicles in the UK and I imagine there's something similar in other countries. They aren't just imposed on drivers who have had crashes.

Bush would then announce that the USA would start the ball rolling immediately by opening itself to independent inspection; and of course Tony Blair's representative would immediately follow suit. If Iraq didn't open up in face of that, then would be the time when tough talking would be appropriate.

Bush won't do it of course. But then I said "if".


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 12:49 PM

Thanks, Peg. And I'm sure if get the job, I won't have to look too far for cabinet members, yourself included. And I know in my heart that the folks here a Mudcat would do a hundred times better than the idiots and thieves that are in there now. Double-damned-guarenteed!

Bobert

P.S. We'll evn keep DougR around as an adviser. What ever he thinks on an issue we'll just do the opposite. Just funnin', Dougie...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Troll
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 09:32 AM

Fionn, Saddam agreed to the inspections to stop the war. He signed an agreement on behalf of his country.
Of course he doesn't like it and of course he wants to avoid it. I am sure that if the conditions you outlined were applied in the US for the same reasons as are the conditions in Iraq, that, no, I wouldn't like it.
No one ever said that Saddam had to like the inspections. He simply has to comply with them. He has shown that he cares very little for anything save his own power and that he is willing to sacrifice his own people to maintain and increase that power.
Quite frankly, I don't care what Saddam thinks. He has proved to be a danger to the region and our allies there in the past and there is absolutely no proof that he has changed his ways.
I am, however, quite willing to wait and see what proofs (if any) the President offers on 9/11 before either endorsing or condemning the decision to "take Saddam out."
That's more than most on this forum seem willing to do.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: kendall
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 06:56 AM

Doug, there is ALWAYS a choice. Even testosterone poisoning can be overcome.In my opinion, that beady eyed phoney is gearing up to protect the republicans in the upcoming congressional elections. PERIOD! How many countries that are unfriendly toward us have weapons of mass destruction? Why do we have the knife out for Iraq? Where is the proof that they have anything that can threaten us? Who gathered it, the CIA? They couldn't find their own ass with both hands! They couldn't whip Iran, how the hell are they going to survive a war with us? It's madness. In war, the first casualty is truth. I have not believed anything my government has said since the Gulf of Tonkin non incident.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 02:25 AM

What's George got that I haven't got? Why is his adgenda for the warring world so much more ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 01:46 AM

Oh, be the first one on your block
T'have your body brought home in a box!


Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme mierde vieux, n'est-ce pas?

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: GUEST,Richard H
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 01:32 AM

Quote from National Geographic, July 2002: "In 1993 a United States military force, originally despatched to Somalia as part of a UN humanitarian peacekeeping mission in the midst of a horrific famine, concluded that the Habr Gedir leader, Mohamed Aideed, was the principal source of local disorder and launched an intensive manhunt to arrest or kill him.

"Uniting in the face of this assault on their leader, the Habr Gedir fought back, culminating in the Oct 3, 1993, battle in South Mogadishu - the subject of the recent film 'Black Hawk Down' - in which 18 Americans and as many as 1000 Somalis were killed.

"The shock of American casualties quelled any appetite among the Western powers for further intervention."

It seems US leaders have a great liking for war but not for the unpopularity associated with bringing home young Americans in body bags.

The answer is to (1) bomb them suckers from way up in the sky; (2) get locals to fight for you on the ground. The Afghan Northern Alliance weren't too impressed with this in the early stages.

In Iraq there doesn't seem to be much military local opposition to Saddam. So we're talking bombs.

Unfortunately Saddam's sojers aren't likely to parade across the desert. Women and children and world public opinion are their only protection against bombing.

So which will Bush opt for - heavy civilian casualties or the risk of body bags?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 12:16 AM

Well, Doug, I'm past military age myself, and it's good to know that your grandsons and their generation are available to die for us. That'll keep the Iraqis from overrunning my home here in North Idaho.

After all, we're too old to die.

Clint


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Peg
Date: 08 Sep 02 - 12:02 AM

Bobert for President!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 11:58 PM

Spoken like a good Republican, DougR.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 11:27 PM

Doug: Now listen very carefully when your guy speaks before the United Nations on Sept. 11th. Hmmmmm? Is there any reason what so ever that he has chosen that date? Yeah, he had had a tean of P.R. men and women workin' 'round the clock toward this presentation.

Listen for evidence. Not the same stuff we allready know. In case you've forgfoptten what we allready know you can scroll up for a gentle reminder. Yeah, Junior will most likely have his little slide show that will show, if you think about sacrificing one of your grandkids, really ain't... ahhh... nithin' new at all for that matter.

Sure, he's gonna sounfd convincing. Heck, he ought to. He's spent more tax payers money on this little speech than all the Mudcatters combined will pay in taxes over their lifetime just getting Junior ready to go out and sell us this war...

But sell he will do, and for the media, ahhh, they'll say that he did a great job. But they are owned by the folks who stand to profir from Junior's war so waht the hack they 'sposed to say?

But, 'ol bobert knows the deal.... And it's fixed toward a conclusion that is gonna get alot of folks hurt real bad... but don't worry... they will die.

This is the stupidist, immoral, anti-human act to occir in the lives of over half the American population yer we are powerless to stop this man? And given the lack of real information when the Gulf of Tonkin was voted will represent the worst decision in over 50 years, I am ashamed tonight to be an American. I am embarreassed. What, to save one liar of a Presifent to face the reality that he stole democracy from my country?

Screw him. He is the traitor...

Bobert

P.s. So much for Bobert's patience... Time to mobilize against this madman...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: DougR
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 09:40 PM

Naw, Clint, they don't want old guys like me.

Kendall: I don't want my grandsons to have to fight either, but there may be no choice. As to evidence, well, let's wait and see what Bush has to say to the nation next week, and to the U. N. I have a feeling though if Saddam toted a suitcase nuke up the Hudson himself there wouldn't be many on this forum that would approve of our taking him out. You would, I know, but you are an exception.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: kendall
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 07:45 PM

I have an 18 year old grand son. I don't want him to die in Iraq to fatten the coffers of big oil. Make no mistake, it is about oil.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 04:04 PM

Troll, does it ever cross your mind how you'd feel about an UNSCOM-type mission comprised of, say, Russians and Chinese, having carte blanche to do an inventory of WMDs in the US?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 03:26 PM

You've got a good point though, Clint. I think the question is relevant. If you aren't willing to die for a cause yourself, how can you say it's right or moralor ethical to send others to die for it.

While a Malthusian discussion on how older men always reduce the population of young men by war, the Chickenhawk Database is not. It's just a little list of warmongers who declined the honor of fighting for their country when it was their turn.

Chickenhawk Database


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 02:57 PM

Sorry about that last troll-like post. I got to brooding about people who want to solve problems with blood & death, and I lost it a bit. I'd be better off if I had Bobert's good nature.

Clint


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 02:44 PM

Just for argument's sake, suppose that it was Mexico - or Canada, heaven forfend- that was a belligerent nation with a deplorable human rights record and suspected of having grandiose global plans. Suppose further that across the seas somewhere is a powerful nation that is going to stop Mexico/Canada before its plans can reach completion. Would the US protest?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 02:39 PM

Well, I hate to nag, but I really want to know: Is DougR going to go over to Iraq in case of a war and risk death or mutilation, or is he one of those chicken hawks? Does anyone know him?

Like Bobert said, this ain't a video game.

Clint


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: kendall
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 02:30 PM

If SAaddam gets caught red handed about to launch a WMD on any of our allies, I would say, "ice the bastard" Personally, the evidence just doesn't add up. I know Bush just squeeked through college, but, is he really that gullible? THERE IS NO EVIDENCE! Every other country in the world says so! It looks to me like "Resident Bush" is having a "Wargasm"


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 01:33 PM

Thanks for the assist, Peg. You know, sometimes I think Doug really does think that there are only a couple of hundred of us. He really needs to get out more.

And, yes, Doug. It is millions and that's just in this country. For straters you can go back to the 2000 Pesidential Selection and figure 100% of those who voted for the Green Party. Then, You can take another 10% to 20% who voted for Bore because they were scared to death of anoth Busgh with his finger on the trigger, and right there you have millions.

Now, I don't remember seeing your face at the Moritorium in 1970 against the Viet Nam War, but there were one hack of a lof of folks that came out of the woodwork for that demonstartion. But, in addition to the usual cast, there were people like my mother with her white gloves on and my Republican father with his suit and tie. Yeah, that sight scared the heck out of your guys.

And mark my words, if Junior goes and gets things all messed up, it won't take as long this time to get the moms and pops on the front line. You see, we;ve seen this movie before and it was lousy the last time, too.

And thank you Amos for writing some very difficult words. People think of what Junior has in mind is some kind of video game, but it ain't. Like you say it is folks getting blown up, it is widows and fatherless kids, and it very much is "unconscionable pain".

And for what? So one man can try to carve out a legacy. So one man acn keep that sleeping dog (the 2000 Seledction) under porch. So that the oldsters from the WWII can get one more case of the jollies?

Like I said, count me out. I'll be in the streets like the last time and time.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 01:23 PM

In the United Kingdom al the opinion polls show people overwhelmingly against an attack on Iraq in these circumstances. The fact that Blair is fervently supportive of Bush is in indication of the way that democracy is in a pretty shaky condition here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 01:09 PM

As a footnote on the ways of people at war, the following letter from General Washington to General Sir Howe, the British Commander, is interesting and informative. It appears a dog belonging to the British General chased off into the woods after a rabbit or deer, and ended up on the Colonial side of the lines, and was duly captured by an American soldier and delivered to Washington's camp.

Octr 6. 1777

General Washington's compliments to General Howe. He does himself the pleasure to return him a dog, which accidentally fell into his hands, and by the inscription on the Collar appears to belong to General Howe.

Ole Bushwah would never have thunk the thought! ' Course them desert dogs don't swim well, anyway.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 01:00 PM

Troll:

I disagree with your assessment of Washington's tactical intiatives. The Delaware==>Trenton fight is a classic case in point, a guerrilla battle which completely reversed expectations and dependned on high flexibility and unpredictable mobility.

One discussion supporting this perspective can be found here, FWIW.

Of course, military people are renowned for their stupidity and history is full of the same lesson being taught over and over. It seems, at least, that Lt Gen Von Ripen learned it, anyhow!

A

Regards,

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Peg
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 12:41 PM

Clearly it is millions of people who do not support this war effort, and they are the same people that have been protesting other senseless invasions, bombings and attacks p[erpetrated by the USA for years now. Been on a college campus lately? If you see an anti-war rally with, say, two hundred students, and figure there must be at least, oh, a thousand other campuses with similar numbers of people engaged in similar activities...well, that gets you at least into the high thousands...

Not counting those who share this opinion who not attend rallies but do things like write letters or discuss things online (as we are doing) and yes, I would say "milions" is a safe bet.

There are millions of war-mongers, too. And no doubt, before all this is over, there will be millions of corpses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: DougR
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 12:28 PM

Bobert: "Millions of people?" Come now, I think you are allowing the fact that the majority of the mudcatters probably agree with your POV get in the way of logic. Thousands, maybe. Hundreds? :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: kendall
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 12:12 PM

There is nothing scarier than ignorance in action. Goethe'


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 11:23 AM

And does anyone anywhere seriously think going to war with Iraq will do anything to reduce the possibility of another September 11 in the future?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 11:12 AM

Danged indeed,. Big Bobert. This surely is the hootenannyfrom hell, and there probably will be blood on the sand before it is over. Arms and legs, too, no longer attached. Some human brain fragments, once supporting something resembling thought. Families without parents, and children in endless grief -- who may well grow up seeking to revenge their clans, BTW. Hot steel fragments opening intestines to the daylight and bones snapping under the weight of collapsing buildings. Inconsolable widows.

Hot blood and ruined human guts. And lots and lots of pure, screaming, unstopping, unconscionable pain.

This is what is being discussed here.

Let's face that part of it squarely, while we sling our cool, abstract polysyllables around on points of policy.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 10:46 AM

Prozak, Doug! Heck no! My drug of choice is life! And an occasional pull on the peace pipe...

I'm just beginning realize that your guy is so intent on carving out some level of "legitamacy" for an office he wasn't elected to... that between the p.r. folks and Rumsfield, he is winning over more folks than I'd like to see toward supporting his amateurish foriegn policy.

Well, my friend. You all go off and have your little war but leave me out. It's wrong! There are more intellegent ways to achieve a much more peaceful planet than continuing a cycle of failed human behavior...

And the worst thing about it is that no one in any position of authority is talking about alternatives. No, they're just lining up behind one check list or another before we initiate the insanity. That's further proff that democracy, as practiced in the US these days is a failed system because there's no one speaking for the millions of folks who see things pretty much the way I view them...

Danged...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: DougR
Date: 07 Sep 02 - 01:09 AM

Bobert, you on Prozak? :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bushwah and Bush War: Part 3
From: NicoleC
Date: 06 Sep 02 - 11:22 PM

I think the whole "no-fly" zone is kinda hysterical in a dark, sick way. The no-fly zone doesn't mean no-fly, it's an arbitary chunk of Iraqi airspace that the US and Britain flies in a shoots down anything bigger than a kite. Violating the so-called no-fly zone is violating a creation of the US and Britain (but not the UN).

Occassionally, somebody from Iraq goes out there in a plane. Foolhardy, but my guess is that young male idiots who join the army for battle glory are the same in any language or culture. Most of the time the "violations" are Iraqi anti-aircraft shooting at US and UK aircraft who are flying over IRAQI territory.

Ironically, both Iran and Turkey violate the no-fly zone to conduct their own target practice in Iraq, but we aren't saying that's provocation for all-out war. It's not a peace zone, it's zone in which the US and UK continue to conduct war, and control an area which is essentially fair game for anyone who wants to take a pot-shot at Iraq. Your tax dollars at work.

So, bombing in Iraq is back in the news. Sorry to say, but we've been bombing something in Iraq at least once a week for the past 10 years. Something like 1100 missiles a year to about 350-400 targets.

Ironically, both Iran and Turkey violate the no-fly zones to conduct their own target practice in Iraq, but we aren't saying that's provocation for all-out war. It's not a peace zone, it's zone in which the US and UK continue to conduct a low-level war, one which has no real objective and no strategy.


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