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Origin: Cosher Bailey

DigiTrad:
COSHER BAILEY'S ENGINE


Related threads:
(origins) Lyr Add: Hob-i-derry Dando (65)
Lyr Add: Hob y Deri Dando (yr Cyrnric and Saxon (17)
Lyr Add: Verse to Cosher Bailey - recent oil news (28)
Lyr Req: Hob Y Derri Dando - Welsh Words (35)


Mr Happy 23 Sep 02 - 08:11 AM
Snuffy 23 Sep 02 - 09:48 AM
Mr Red 23 Sep 02 - 10:06 AM
fretless 23 Sep 02 - 10:23 AM
songs2play 23 Sep 02 - 10:43 AM
Schantieman 23 Sep 02 - 12:35 PM
Micca 23 Sep 02 - 12:41 PM
fretless 23 Sep 02 - 03:26 PM
Micca 23 Sep 02 - 06:20 PM
Chanteyranger 23 Sep 02 - 10:00 PM
GUEST,Valleyboy 24 Sep 02 - 02:57 AM
Keith A of Hertford 24 Sep 02 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,Ced2 24 Sep 02 - 03:59 PM
Bernard 24 Sep 02 - 06:57 PM
Gareth 24 Sep 02 - 07:26 PM
Steve Parkes 23 Sep 03 - 10:53 AM
EBarnacle1 23 Sep 03 - 11:51 AM
Gareth 23 Sep 03 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Train Guard 23 Sep 03 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,Mrr (thought I had a cookie here) 23 Sep 03 - 01:55 PM
Gareth 23 Sep 03 - 03:13 PM
Deckman 23 Sep 03 - 11:30 PM
Melani 24 Sep 03 - 12:07 AM
GUEST,paddy 10 May 12 - 02:58 PM
GUEST,Jen 19 Nov 14 - 06:58 PM
Big Al Whittle 19 Nov 14 - 08:21 PM
Lighter 19 Nov 14 - 08:34 PM
Mrrzy 20 Nov 14 - 11:55 AM
Lighter 20 Nov 14 - 05:20 PM
GUEST 20 Nov 14 - 07:06 PM
Mrrzy 20 Nov 14 - 11:01 PM
Splott Man 21 Nov 14 - 03:42 AM
MGM·Lion 26 Oct 15 - 05:25 PM
Lighter 26 Oct 15 - 07:55 PM
Mr Red 27 Oct 15 - 06:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Oct 15 - 06:32 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Oct 15 - 07:03 AM
Dave the Gnome 27 Oct 15 - 07:16 AM
MGM·Lion 27 Oct 15 - 07:54 AM
MGM·Lion 27 Oct 15 - 07:55 AM
Snuffy 27 Oct 15 - 08:23 AM
GUEST,M 27 Oct 15 - 10:04 AM
Lighter 27 Oct 15 - 10:57 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Oct 15 - 05:07 AM
Lighter 28 Oct 15 - 07:05 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Oct 15 - 07:39 AM
Lighter 28 Oct 15 - 08:30 AM
Mr Red 28 Oct 15 - 08:36 AM
Brian Peters 28 Oct 15 - 09:33 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Oct 15 - 10:07 AM
Lighter 28 Oct 15 - 10:18 AM
Brian Peters 28 Oct 15 - 11:33 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Oct 15 - 11:54 AM
Mr Red 28 Oct 15 - 12:04 PM
Brian Peters 28 Oct 15 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,Bill the sound 28 Oct 15 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,Celia 09 Feb 16 - 06:13 PM
GUEST 02 Apr 16 - 06:42 AM
GUEST 02 Apr 16 - 08:11 AM
Joe_F 02 Apr 16 - 05:37 PM
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Subject: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 08:11 AM

any one know the composer of 'Cosher Bailey'?

i'm looking for more verses as well + similar compositions.


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 09:48 AM

This thread traces how Cosher Bailey developed from versions of Hob Y Deri Dando.

WassaiL! V


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:06 AM

everyone wrote it.
Which verses sopecifically?


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: fretless
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:23 AM

The thread linked by Snuffy has all the verses I remember hearing (and a few more) except one: about a cat on the roof, a chimney, and putting out the fire. I only heard it once, at a hostel in Scotland or Ireland back in '65. It was too beery that night for me to remember more.


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: songs2play
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:43 AM

I'm sure there was another verse ending-

Oh there was a prince called Charlie And he visited The Valley He got drunk in Tonypandy On a glass of Cherry Brandy.

With reference to Prince Charles ?


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Schantieman
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 12:35 PM

One of the verses I used to sing as a Scout was:

Now he had a brother Rupert
Who played outside-half for Newport
And the day they played Llanelli
He got kicked right in the belly (make it rhyme!)

Steve


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Micca
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 12:41 PM

Fretless, I think the verse you are referring to is an "extra verse" in" Landlord, fill the flowing bowl" and goes thus:

If I had another brick
I'd build by chimney higher
If I had another brick
I'd build by chimney higher
That would stop my neighbour's cat,
That would stop my neighbour's cat,
That would stop my neighbour's cat,
From pissing on my fire


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: fretless
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 03:26 PM

Micca, That could be it. It's got the right elements and if you drop the repeats it fits the Cosher Bailey meter. Nice to have that question solved after 37 years. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Micca
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 06:20 PM

Fretless, if you can fit it to Cosher Bailey by cutting the repeats you may as well have the other "extra verse"...hee hee

Come, into the garden Maude
And don't be so particular
Come, into the garden Maude
And don't be so particular
If the grass is cold and wet,
If the grass is cold and wet,
If the grass is cold and wet,
We'll do it perpendicular.


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:00 PM

Have also seen the name as "Crusher Bailey" in a version of Hob Y Deri Dando.


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: GUEST,Valleyboy
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 02:57 AM

Nearly s2p,

Well it seams the Prince of Wales Came to see our lovely Vales He got drunk in Tonypany On a glass of Cherry Brandy

Theres lovely for you, Isn't it.


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 02:13 PM

Robert Graves refers to the song in his WW1 autobiography Goodbye To All That. I think I recall that he gave the name as Crawshaw Bailey.


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: GUEST,Ced2
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 03:59 PM

Not sure who wrote the proper words (as opposed to the risque words as in "brothers Morgan, Matthew etc) but one source gives the tune as being from an old Welsh folk tune "The Black Pig". Cosher was a real person, an ironmaster who built (or had built) the Taff Vale Railway in 1846. According to local legend Cosher drove the first train and got the loco stuck in a tunnel. The Taff Vale, was at one time the most profitable railway in the U.K, (at a time when Britain was at war and good steam coal required to fuel the navy's ships was at a premium). Cosher died in 1872. His railway was at the centre of the infamous row in the early 1900's that led the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants to be central to the formation of the committee for Labour Representation (Labour Party) to seek immunity from punitive punishments dished out when the Taff Vale Company took them to court during a most acrimonious dispute. One of the Taff Vale locomotives now over 100 years old is currently pulling trains on the Worth Valley Railway in West Yorkshire. This is not the loco that got stuck, it was built by Dubbs & Co in Glasgow in 1898?


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 06:57 PM

Mrs. Jones, she had a mangle
She did wind it with an 'andle
When she turned it at full power
She did twenty sheets an hour...

Cosher's older brother Diar
Wished to join the village choir
But the vicar said 'no fear!'
'We don't want no Diar 'ere!'

Cosher had a sister Ella
Who did have a fine umbrella
And she thought so much about it
That she never was without it
Then one day she had a date
With her best friend's cousin's mate
T'would have been a tale of folly
If she hadn't had her brolly...


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 07:26 PM

Not a bad condensed history Ced2 - But remember the Crawshay's of Merthyr were not noted for thier love of Social Progress.

The castle at Merthyr - Cyfarthra Castle was built, crenelated as a safe refuge for the Crawshay's, to protect them from thier workers if they ever rebelled.

Richard Crawshay is burried in the picturesque village of Llanfoist - his grave was fenced off with an Iron Cage - ostensible to protect his corpse from those who would have burnt or mutilated it.

Gareth But the Devil would not have him,
And he gave him coal and patches
To set up his own on Barton (?Dowlais?) Hatches


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Subject: So who wrote it?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 10:53 AM

I read somewhere in a book on railways/locos that CB was chief engineer for one of the old railway companies; he built a tunnel, and gave himself the honour of driving the first train through it ... or at least as far as it would go before the chimney hit the roof. No idea what book it was (it might be one of mine, but there's a lot to look through), or even if the story was true and not just a railway myth.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 11:51 AM

Oscar Brand, in "Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads," lists the song as "Crusher Bailey." His derivation agrees with what is said above.


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 12:32 PM

This fine cultural Ballad has been the subject of discussion in Folk info - Click 'Ere as we say in the Valleys for the thread.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: GUEST,Train Guard
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 01:24 PM

The connection with the Taff Vale Railway has already been mentioned.

A few verses.

Cosher Bailey had an engine,
And it always needed mending,
It did nineteen miles an hour,
On the night run up from Gower....

(Did you ever see,
Did you ever see,
Did you ever see,
Such a funny thing before...?)

Cosher Bailey's brother Norwich,
He liked his oatmeal porridge,
And he went to Cardiff College,
For to get a bit of knowledge...

Cosher Bailey went to Oxford,
To attend his matriculation,
But he met a pretty barmaid,
And he never left the station...

Cosher Bailey went and died,
So they put him in his coffin,
Till they heard someone knocking,
Cosher Bailey...only joking!

Well, the devil wouldn't have him,
And it really was no wonder,
So he sent him back to earth,
To make a hell upon the Rhonnda


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: GUEST,Mrr (thought I had a cookie here)
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 01:55 PM

I know a CRUSHER Bailey, is it the same? Crusher Bailey had a sister(harry diddy dumby) Laughed likke blazes when you kissed her (let us sing again boys), saw her coming to the water (Jane sweet Jane), (something I can/t remember) Jane Jane come to the glen, who'll sing praise of shellicock hoyt, jane jane comne to the glen, who'll sing praise of shellycock hoyt) - or something...


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:13 PM

Mrr - Thats Hob y Deri Dando - a related shanty - see the threads in the heading.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Deckman
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 11:30 PM

To "Guest Train Guard" ... Roy Guest, from England, came to Seattle, Washington (USA) in 1958-59. We became good friends and traded many songs. He taught me the version you just printed. I've always had great fun with it! Thanks for posting it and cheers from the NorthWest corner of America! Bob(deckman)Nelson


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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it?
From: Melani
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 12:07 AM

The verse about the Prince of Wales refers to an incident that occurred when Charles was about 13 or so--somehow temporarily on his own, he ducked into a pub to get out of the rain and away from pursuing press. Once in the pub, he thought he had to buy something, and the only thing he could think of was cherry brandy. (This is the official version.) Of course he was underage, and the press made a big deal out of it, much to the Royal Family's embarassment.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: GUEST,paddy
Date: 10 May 12 - 02:58 PM

Now the version i know (please excuse spelling i was drunk looking for this song) is closest to Guest train guards.but Crusher Bailey is how i know it.
   crusher bailey had a car
   it could do 5 miles an hour
   but it only had one door wasnt he
   a sill billy.
   (the first verse i dont get myself but it gets funnier)
   
   did you ever see
   did you ever see
   did you ever see
   such a funny thing before

   crusher baileys sister grace
   had an awfully ugly face
   wasnt it a pity she
   only had one (knee cap)

   chours

   crusher baileys uncle mathew
   was always climbing statues
   one day he climbed up venus
   fell and broke his (big toe)

   chours

   crusher baileys sister lily
   owned a flat in piccadilly
   she ran an instatution
   teaching young (elecution)

   chours

any way my spelling has gotten so bad its not even funny now,its just sad.But the song goes on like that for a few more versus. is that what any one is looking for?


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: GUEST,Jen
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 06:58 PM

Cosher Bailey's brother Stuart
He played inside half for Newport
When he saw the forwards rucking
Well he thought that they were (joking)


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 08:21 PM

the song is mentioned in Goodbye to All That by Robert Graves. he was fighting with a Welsh regiment in the first world war, and the song was a favourite among the troops. he called it Crawshey Bailly.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Nov 14 - 08:34 PM

Graves calls it "one of the idiotic songs of Wales."


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 11:55 AM

Can anybody tell me if this is what Oscar Brand sings as the chorus to Crusher Bailey? I found these lyrics at In Harmony's Way, which is a great name for a music site.

Jane, Jane, come to the glen,
To sing of praise to Johnny Fach Foyn. (I hear Shelly Cock Coyne.)
Jane, Jane come to the glen,
To sing of praise to Johnny Fach Foyn.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 05:20 PM

Brand sings, "To sing the praise of Siani fach fwyn."

Welsh for "dear sweet Jane."

See Hugill's "Shanties from the Seven Seas" (1961) for another version.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 07:06 PM

Is there another thread about this?

It's Hob a derry dando of course,
but it's obviously Welsh as muxed ip as My Hen Laid A Haddock.

Now - if "Jane" is supposed to come to the glen to sing about *dear sweet Jane" it's reasonable to suppose that "come to the glen" is also a foxed phrase from Welsh, meaning something else entirely.

Welsh speakers- what was it?


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Nov 14 - 11:01 PM

OK, then, how does Brand *pronounce* Siani fach fwyn? I still hear shelly coch (like loch) coyne.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Splott Man
Date: 21 Nov 14 - 03:42 AM

Ih Welsh the line is - Llais a derin yn y llwyn - "a voice like a bird in the grove (glen?)"

Splott Man


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 05:25 PM

And he had a Cousin Willie
Who played soccer for Caerphilly
When he started playing rugger
He looked such a silly billy


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 07:55 PM

Mrrzy, Brand's 1960 book prints the line as "To sing praises of sweet little Jane," thus solving the problem of pronunciation.

Which on the LP sounds to me like "Shawny fawk foyn."


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 06:11 AM

Ih Welsh the line is - Llais a derin yn y llwyn - "a voice like a bird in the grove (glen?)" is that "yodelling in the valley"? To use another euphemism!

And a Girlfriend in Monmouth, many years ago, insisted she knew the Cosher Bailey chorus as:

Was you ever saw
Was you ever saw
was you ever saw such a funny thing before.

Which has that comfortably convincing rhyme, and consistent tense and is sufficiently unusual to look like a literal translation from the Welsh. Just pointing out............


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 06:32 AM

Is there a Jewish verse about Kosher Bailey?

Just askin...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 07:03 AM

...or maybe a drug dealer?

Pusher Bailey...


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 07:16 AM

...an upmarket one?

Posher Bailey

I'll stop now. Honest.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 07:54 AM

Mr Read -- I learnt it early on as

Was you ever see
Was you ever saw
Was you ever see
Such a funny thing before


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 07:55 AM

Sorry -- I meant Mr Red, of course.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Snuffy
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 08:23 AM

Was you ever saw
Was you ever saw
was you ever saw such a funny thing before.

That's the way I learned it 50-odd years ago


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: GUEST,M
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 10:04 AM

Oh I've got an Uncle Rupert
He plays outside half for Newport
In a game against Llanelli
He got kicked in the shins (kicked pronounced with 2 syllables)

And another vote for:-
Was you ever saw
Was you ever saw
was you ever saw such a funny thing before.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 10:57 AM

Two songs-forms here, mainly distinguished by their refrains.

The lyrics are interchangeable, but the "Was you ever see?" form seems to be ousting the other.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 05:07 AM

But, as I never tire of saying: we will all have our favourite renderings; but is it not a vain, mistaken, and indeed almost culpable, form of effort, to try and establish a definitive or 'correct' version of any traditional artefact...?

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 07:05 AM

> is it not a vain, mistaken, and indeed almost culpable, form of effort, to try and establish a definitive or 'correct' version of any traditional artefact...?


You're such a romantic, Mike.

Burns did it a number of times.

So have lesser talents, The Kingston Trio, e.g.

Millions love the results, so those adjectives seem not to apply.

If "oral tradition" and "folk recomposition" were still in vigorous operation, "definitive" versions would of course be inconceivable - except for those (like readers of Burns and emulators of "folk" groups) who accept them as such.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 07:39 AM

Sorry -- but disagree, Lighter. Those you mentioned may have used stuff creatively, for their own purposes; and have produced works of which various opinions may be held in any way . But I don't think any of them would have claimed that they had produced THE version to end all versions, and we can all go home now, thank you very much. The fact that you appear to think some people [who, precisely?] might accept their versions as such, merely demonstrates [if it be in fact the case, which you will gather I beg leave to doubt] that these misunderstand the nature of a truly traditional artefact. Can't see what you find in any way 'romantic' in my holding this view. Seems to me hard stonecold incontrovertible fact·of·the·matter.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 08:30 AM

> these misunderstand the nature of a truly traditional artefact.

Of course. But the crux is whether there is a viable oral tradition operating within some "community" that passes artefacts on with continuous alteration, sometimes improving, more often diminishing.

Those who take pop versions of traditional songs as definitive may not know or care what "folk tradition" means, but they know what they like and they don't want to see it changed.

For them, at least (meaning almost everybody, since pedants like us and serious, historically minded interpreters, make up close to 0% of the English-speaking population), there's only one "Tom Dooley" and only one "Shule Aroon."

Would it were otherwise.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 08:36 AM

Did you ever see
Did you ever see
Did you ever see

Is, IMNSHO, the rugby song version, and that may well date from the LP of rugby songs in the 60's (ish).

Long live the Folk Process we are a living tradition! Mea culpa (he said quietly)


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Brian Peters
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 09:33 AM

"Did you ever see... Is, IMNSHO, the rugby song version, and that may well date from the LP of rugby songs in the 60's (ish)."

I don't think so. My grandmother in Merthyr, born in the 1890s, sang 'Did you ever see?', as did everyone else in the family, and she most certainly would not have heard any recording of rugby songs.

I think Bert Lloyd may have printed the 'Was you ever see' version somewhere, hence it's ascendancy in the folk world. Always struck me as a very odd construction that I never heard in Valleys conversation.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 10:07 AM

No, Brian. It's earlier than any Bert influence -- which would have been from mid-late 1950s iirc. I remember the "Was you.." version being sung on a coach carrying the football club I used to play for when I was 16, 67 years ago now. Don't know where & how my team-mates [many of whom happened to be at St Paul's School, as a cousin of mine who was there was main organiser, tho I went to Hendon County myself] got their version from: but, I repeat, their version which has stuck with me ever since, was definitely "Was you ever see..."

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 10:18 AM

My impression (or theory) is that most of the '60s rugby repertoire dates back to 1939-45.

And in some cases, of course, earlier.

(A few established WW2 items, like the scabrous version of "Brian O'Lynn," have dropped out of circulation.)


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Brian Peters
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 11:33 AM

"Was you ever see..."

Is it possible this is an English invention intended to parody South Welsh patois, like "Look you, Boyo"?


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 11:54 AM

Almost certainly, I should say, Brian. Ewan, in "The Shuttle and Cage", gives "Did you ever see...?" But, as I said in my last post, it's a long-established way of singing it.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 12:04 PM

also very plausible. Look see which the Munmuth lass insisted was THE construct not look you. And very telling is the look that Worcestershire (Worcester/Malvern) locals would use & which I have come across in the Eastcombe region of Stroud from an old lad I recorded. see Godfrey Jellyman of Brownshill, Stroud although I seem to have edited the look out. I will try to find it again. and re-instate it.

But it is all grist to the mill that we call the Folk Process


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Brian Peters
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 12:08 PM

I never heard 'look you' or 'boyo' in Merthyr. 'Boy bach', yes.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: GUEST,Bill the sound
Date: 28 Oct 15 - 01:41 PM

I always thought the tune came from an old Welsh folk song
Claddu'r mochen du (burial of the black pig _


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: GUEST,Celia
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 06:13 PM

i've got a cousin Mike
He rides a motorbike
He can ride around the Gower
In a quarter of an hour

With fond memories of my university rugby team!!


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 06:42 AM

"And he had a Cousin Willie
Who played soccer for Caerphilly
When he started playing rugger
He looked such a silly billy"

Is there a technical term for the action in the last line above, i.e. when you put in a different word to the one expected (as in "billy" instead of the expected "bugger")? Although one thinks of "euphemism" or "double entendre", I think these are subtly different.

Whatever this technique is called, I occasionally use it in some of my own (very amateur) songs, e.g.

I met a girl on a Tuesday night, her hair was coloured black
I'd heard from all the men in town, she was good in the ...dance hall

The dots indicate a slight pause before "dancehall" (the audience is presumably expecting to hear "sack" at the end of the 2nd line).

I always think think it is funnier if the rude word is not actually spoken or sung. I wonder is this a very British thing, or does it occur in other English-speaking countries, or indeed elsewhere in Europe or even further afield?


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 08:11 AM

"Cosher" Bailey was supposed to be an engine driver, but the name suggest he was a the "Tough (or Bad) Cop" part of a Tough Cop/Soft Cop duo. As Gene Hunt might have said "We let him off with a Coshing"

These days it's probably Soft Cop/Softer Cop.


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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey
From: Joe_F
Date: 02 Apr 16 - 05:37 PM

Songs that are full of avoidances of expected rhymes are sometimes called "tease songs". However, since most verses of "Cosher Bailey" are not of that character, I suppose one could call the ones that are, "tease verses".


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