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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Sep 22 - 07:21 PM Thanks y'all! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 28 Aug 22 - 12:37 PM Brand sings "Shonny fock foin." |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Nigel Parsons Date: 28 Aug 22 - 10:53 AM Mrrzy: From the linked thread: Here Siani fach fwyn. (pronununciation: Shan-ee vach voyn both 'a's are short as in cap/hat, ch is gutteral as in loch, or J S Bach) From second half of that post giving the 'traditional' words to Hob-y-deri-dando. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Mrrzy Date: 27 Aug 22 - 09:02 PM From 7 years ago: Mrrzy, Brand's 1960 book prints the line as "To sing praises of sweet little Jane," thus solving the problem of pronunciation. My problem is how he pronounces it on the record, which I still hear as shelly coch coyne. I believe whoever said it is Welsh for Sweet little Jane. But Brand does not sing Sweet little Jane... |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST,Roger. Date: 27 Aug 22 - 04:00 PM My Dad, Hadyn, was the second of four brothers' Glyn, Dad, Harold and David. All coal miners from the village of Resolfen in the Neath valley. Dad was born in 1906 and along with the others decided to join up in the Royal Welch Fusiliers, (we're not going down those bloody mines again), at the time of the General Strike. All four of them served through WW2 and came out the other side. When I knew them in the 1950's they used to sing Cosher Bailey when they'd had the odd beer or two. So no doubt the song had travelled the world with them and people like them. I can remember singing and hearing it in all sorts of unlikely places when I was in the Merchant Navy. Its just the good old folk process. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST,PB Date: 27 Aug 22 - 04:51 AM Cosher (Crawshay) Bailey really did have an engine, and it probably looked something like this. That sort of design was obsolete even when it was new in 1832, but they kept making whole fleets of these in South Wales for years afterwards. Stubbornness, parochialism, building cost... it didn't matter that they were massively inefficient, the coal was effectively free. You might notice that in the drawing the wheels don't seem to sit on the rails. This isn't a mistake, on most of the South Wales lines the rails were flanged and the wheels plain, an engineering error- rails are stronger when you have the load- bearing element vertical- that lasted from the 1780s to the 1830s for new builds and up to the 1920s in service. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 23 Aug 22 - 10:34 AM Robert Graves, Good-bye to All That (1930) [passage app. written in May, 1915]: “[A very young Welsh soldier] appealed to me as an arbiter. ‘You’ve been to college, sir, haven’t you?’ I said, yes, I had, but so had Crawshay Bailey’s brother Norwich.’ This was held to be a wonderfully witty answer. Crawshay Bailey is one of the idiotic songs of Wales. (Crawshay Bailey himself ‘had an engine and he couldn't make it go,’ and all his relations in the song had similar shortcomings. Crawshay Bailey's brother Norwich, for instance, was fond of oatmeal porridge, and was sent to Cardiff college, for to get a bit of knowledge.) After that I had no trouble with the platoon at all.” |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GeoffLawes Date: 23 Aug 22 - 03:31 AM Crawshay Bailey from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawshay_Bailey |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 22 Aug 22 - 03:47 PM About "look you." Oxford shows that "look you," "look ye," and "look thou" were all quite current between the fifteenth and seventeenth centuries, with some continued use into the nineteenth. It wasn't restricted to Wales. "Look ye" is the only survival, and Oxford deems it "regional" or "archaic," which means you'll rarely hear it. "Look ye" is limited to "Welsh English, esp. in stereotypical representations." OTOH, the reduced form "Looky (here)!" still survives in the U.S., but mainly as a huckster's or carnival barker's expression. Just now I heard an advertising jingle that goes, "Looky, looky, looky! Here comes Cookie! Cook's Pest Control!" |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Nigel Parsons Date: 22 Aug 22 - 02:12 PM With my collection of BBC songbooks from schools broadcasts I thought I'd add the versions there (for those who remember learning them in school) From Singing Together Spring 1977 & Autumn 1984 both the same set of lyrics: COSHER BAILEY Trad Cosher Bailey had an engine, It was always needing mending, And according to her power, She could do four miles an Hour. Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? On the night run up from Gower She went twenty miles an hour; As she whistled through the station Man, she frightened half the nation. Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? Cosher bought her second-hand, And he paint her up so grand, When the driver went to oil her Man, she nearly burst her boiler. Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? Now Cosher Bailey he did die, And they put him in a coffin But one night they heard some knocking, Cosher Bailey only joking. Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? The song was also used in 'Music Time' The Big Balloon Show Summer 1979, but with slight differences in the first verses, and two verses replacing the fourth verse: COSHER BAILEY Trad Cosher Bailey had an engine, It was always wanting mending, And according to her power, She could do four miles an Hour. Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? On the night run up from Gower She went twenty miles an hour; As she whistled through the station Man, she frightened half the nation. Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? Cosher bought her second-hand, And he paint her up so grand, But when he went to oil her Man, she nearly burst her boiler. Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? Oh, the sight it was heart-rending! Cosher drove his little engine At full speed into the tunnel And he shot right up the funnel. Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? Now poor Cosher lies in plaster, His old engine met disaster When he filled her up with water She went faster than she oughta! Did you ever see, did you ever see Did you ever see such a funny thing before? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Nigel Parsons Date: 22 Aug 22 - 12:12 PM There's a much fuller discussion on this, and Hob-y-deri-dando provided by Abbey Sale already on Mudcat: Here |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST Date: 22 Aug 22 - 10:57 AM Now the bees on the Gower They just flit from flower to flower But the bees in Llangollen They don’t care about the pollen. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Joe_F Date: 02 Apr 16 - 05:37 PM Songs that are full of avoidances of expected rhymes are sometimes called "tease songs". However, since most verses of "Cosher Bailey" are not of that character, I suppose one could call the ones that are, "tease verses". |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 16 - 08:11 AM "Cosher" Bailey was supposed to be an engine driver, but the name suggest he was a the "Tough (or Bad) Cop" part of a Tough Cop/Soft Cop duo. As Gene Hunt might have said "We let him off with a Coshing" These days it's probably Soft Cop/Softer Cop. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST Date: 02 Apr 16 - 06:42 AM "And he had a Cousin Willie Who played soccer for Caerphilly When he started playing rugger He looked such a silly billy" Is there a technical term for the action in the last line above, i.e. when you put in a different word to the one expected (as in "billy" instead of the expected "bugger")? Although one thinks of "euphemism" or "double entendre", I think these are subtly different. Whatever this technique is called, I occasionally use it in some of my own (very amateur) songs, e.g. I met a girl on a Tuesday night, her hair was coloured black I'd heard from all the men in town, she was good in the ...dance hall The dots indicate a slight pause before "dancehall" (the audience is presumably expecting to hear "sack" at the end of the 2nd line). I always think think it is funnier if the rude word is not actually spoken or sung. I wonder is this a very British thing, or does it occur in other English-speaking countries, or indeed elsewhere in Europe or even further afield? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST,Celia Date: 09 Feb 16 - 06:13 PM i've got a cousin Mike He rides a motorbike He can ride around the Gower In a quarter of an hour With fond memories of my university rugby team!! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST,Bill the sound Date: 28 Oct 15 - 01:41 PM I always thought the tune came from an old Welsh folk song Claddu'r mochen du (burial of the black pig _ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Brian Peters Date: 28 Oct 15 - 12:08 PM I never heard 'look you' or 'boyo' in Merthyr. 'Boy bach', yes. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Mr Red Date: 28 Oct 15 - 12:04 PM also very plausible. Look see which the Munmuth lass insisted was THE construct not look you. And very telling is the look that Worcestershire (Worcester/Malvern) locals would use & which I have come across in the Eastcombe region of Stroud from an old lad I recorded. see Godfrey Jellyman of Brownshill, Stroud although I seem to have edited the look out. I will try to find it again. and re-instate it. But it is all grist to the mill that we call the Folk Process |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: MGM·Lion Date: 28 Oct 15 - 11:54 AM Almost certainly, I should say, Brian. Ewan, in "The Shuttle and Cage", gives "Did you ever see...?" But, as I said in my last post, it's a long-established way of singing it. ≈M≈ Ewan MacColl recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSk7Po1sVF8 |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Brian Peters Date: 28 Oct 15 - 11:33 AM "Was you ever see..." Is it possible this is an English invention intended to parody South Welsh patois, like "Look you, Boyo"? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 28 Oct 15 - 10:18 AM My impression (or theory) is that most of the '60s rugby repertoire dates back to 1939-45. And in some cases, of course, earlier. (A few established WW2 items, like the scabrous version of "Brian O'Lynn," have dropped out of circulation.) |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: MGM·Lion Date: 28 Oct 15 - 10:07 AM No, Brian. It's earlier than any Bert influence -- which would have been from mid-late 1950s iirc. I remember the "Was you.." version being sung on a coach carrying the football club I used to play for when I was 16, 67 years ago now. Don't know where & how my team-mates [many of whom happened to be at St Paul's School, as a cousin of mine who was there was main organiser, tho I went to Hendon County myself] got their version from: but, I repeat, their version which has stuck with me ever since, was definitely "Was you ever see..." ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Brian Peters Date: 28 Oct 15 - 09:33 AM "Did you ever see... Is, IMNSHO, the rugby song version, and that may well date from the LP of rugby songs in the 60's (ish)." I don't think so. My grandmother in Merthyr, born in the 1890s, sang 'Did you ever see?', as did everyone else in the family, and she most certainly would not have heard any recording of rugby songs. I think Bert Lloyd may have printed the 'Was you ever see' version somewhere, hence it's ascendancy in the folk world. Always struck me as a very odd construction that I never heard in Valleys conversation. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Mr Red Date: 28 Oct 15 - 08:36 AM Did you ever see Did you ever see Did you ever see Is, IMNSHO, the rugby song version, and that may well date from the LP of rugby songs in the 60's (ish). Long live the Folk Process we are a living tradition! Mea culpa (he said quietly) |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 28 Oct 15 - 08:30 AM > these misunderstand the nature of a truly traditional artefact. Of course. But the crux is whether there is a viable oral tradition operating within some "community" that passes artefacts on with continuous alteration, sometimes improving, more often diminishing. Those who take pop versions of traditional songs as definitive may not know or care what "folk tradition" means, but they know what they like and they don't want to see it changed. For them, at least (meaning almost everybody, since pedants like us and serious, historically minded interpreters, make up close to 0% of the English-speaking population), there's only one "Tom Dooley" and only one "Shule Aroon." Would it were otherwise. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: MGM·Lion Date: 28 Oct 15 - 07:39 AM Sorry -- but disagree, Lighter. Those you mentioned may have used stuff creatively, for their own purposes; and have produced works of which various opinions may be held in any way . But I don't think any of them would have claimed that they had produced THE version to end all versions, and we can all go home now, thank you very much. The fact that you appear to think some people [who, precisely?] might accept their versions as such, merely demonstrates [if it be in fact the case, which you will gather I beg leave to doubt] that these misunderstand the nature of a truly traditional artefact. Can't see what you find in any way 'romantic' in my holding this view. Seems to me hard stonecold incontrovertible fact·of·the·matter. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 28 Oct 15 - 07:05 AM > is it not a vain, mistaken, and indeed almost culpable, form of effort, to try and establish a definitive or 'correct' version of any traditional artefact...? You're such a romantic, Mike. Burns did it a number of times. So have lesser talents, The Kingston Trio, e.g. Millions love the results, so those adjectives seem not to apply. If "oral tradition" and "folk recomposition" were still in vigorous operation, "definitive" versions would of course be inconceivable - except for those (like readers of Burns and emulators of "folk" groups) who accept them as such. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: MGM·Lion Date: 28 Oct 15 - 05:07 AM But, as I never tire of saying: we will all have our favourite renderings; but is it not a vain, mistaken, and indeed almost culpable, form of effort, to try and establish a definitive or 'correct' version of any traditional artefact...? ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 27 Oct 15 - 10:57 AM Two songs-forms here, mainly distinguished by their refrains. The lyrics are interchangeable, but the "Was you ever see?" form seems to be ousting the other. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST,M Date: 27 Oct 15 - 10:04 AM Oh I've got an Uncle Rupert He plays outside half for Newport In a game against Llanelli He got kicked in the shins (kicked pronounced with 2 syllables) And another vote for:- Was you ever saw Was you ever saw was you ever saw such a funny thing before. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Snuffy Date: 27 Oct 15 - 08:23 AM Was you ever saw Was you ever saw was you ever saw such a funny thing before. That's the way I learned it 50-odd years ago |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: MGM·Lion Date: 27 Oct 15 - 07:55 AM Sorry -- I meant Mr Red, of course. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: MGM·Lion Date: 27 Oct 15 - 07:54 AM Mr Read -- I learnt it early on as Was you ever see Was you ever saw Was you ever see Such a funny thing before |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Oct 15 - 07:16 AM ...an upmarket one? Posher Bailey I'll stop now. Honest. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Oct 15 - 07:03 AM ...or maybe a drug dealer? Pusher Bailey... |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Oct 15 - 06:32 AM Is there a Jewish verse about Kosher Bailey? Just askin... :D tG |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Mr Red Date: 27 Oct 15 - 06:11 AM Ih Welsh the line is - Llais a derin yn y llwyn - "a voice like a bird in the grove (glen?)" is that "yodelling in the valley"? To use another euphemism! And a Girlfriend in Monmouth, many years ago, insisted she knew the Cosher Bailey chorus as: Was you ever saw Was you ever saw was you ever saw such a funny thing before. Which has that comfortably convincing rhyme, and consistent tense and is sufficiently unusual to look like a literal translation from the Welsh. Just pointing out............ |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 26 Oct 15 - 07:55 PM Mrrzy, Brand's 1960 book prints the line as "To sing praises of sweet little Jane," thus solving the problem of pronunciation. Which on the LP sounds to me like "Shawny fawk foyn." |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: MGM·Lion Date: 26 Oct 15 - 05:25 PM And he had a Cousin Willie Who played soccer for Caerphilly When he started playing rugger He looked such a silly billy |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Splott Man Date: 21 Nov 14 - 03:42 AM Ih Welsh the line is - Llais a derin yn y llwyn - "a voice like a bird in the grove (glen?)" Splott Man |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Mrrzy Date: 20 Nov 14 - 11:01 PM OK, then, how does Brand *pronounce* Siani fach fwyn? I still hear shelly coch (like loch) coyne. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST Date: 20 Nov 14 - 07:06 PM Is there another thread about this? It's Hob a derry dando of course, but it's obviously Welsh as muxed ip as My Hen Laid A Haddock. Now - if "Jane" is supposed to come to the glen to sing about *dear sweet Jane" it's reasonable to suppose that "come to the glen" is also a foxed phrase from Welsh, meaning something else entirely. Welsh speakers- what was it? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 20 Nov 14 - 05:20 PM Brand sings, "To sing the praise of Siani fach fwyn." Welsh for "dear sweet Jane." See Hugill's "Shanties from the Seven Seas" (1961) for another version. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Mrrzy Date: 20 Nov 14 - 11:55 AM Can anybody tell me if this is what Oscar Brand sings as the chorus to Crusher Bailey? I found these lyrics at In Harmony's Way, which is a great name for a music site. Jane, Jane, come to the glen, To sing of praise to Johnny Fach Foyn. (I hear Shelly Cock Coyne.) Jane, Jane come to the glen, To sing of praise to Johnny Fach Foyn. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Lighter Date: 19 Nov 14 - 08:34 PM Graves calls it "one of the idiotic songs of Wales." |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: Big Al Whittle Date: 19 Nov 14 - 08:21 PM the song is mentioned in Goodbye to All That by Robert Graves. he was fighting with a Welsh regiment in the first world war, and the song was a favourite among the troops. he called it Crawshey Bailly. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST,Jen Date: 19 Nov 14 - 06:58 PM Cosher Bailey's brother Stuart He played inside half for Newport When he saw the forwards rucking Well he thought that they were (joking) |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Cosher Bailey From: GUEST,paddy Date: 10 May 12 - 02:58 PM Now the version i know (please excuse spelling i was drunk looking for this song) is closest to Guest train guards.but Crusher Bailey is how i know it. crusher bailey had a car it could do 5 miles an hour but it only had one door wasnt he a sill billy. (the first verse i dont get myself but it gets funnier) did you ever see did you ever see did you ever see such a funny thing before crusher baileys sister grace had an awfully ugly face wasnt it a pity she only had one (knee cap) chours crusher baileys uncle mathew was always climbing statues one day he climbed up venus fell and broke his (big toe) chours crusher baileys sister lily owned a flat in piccadilly she ran an instatution teaching young (elecution) chours any way my spelling has gotten so bad its not even funny now,its just sad.But the song goes on like that for a few more versus. is that what any one is looking for? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Melani Date: 24 Sep 03 - 12:07 AM The verse about the Prince of Wales refers to an incident that occurred when Charles was about 13 or so--somehow temporarily on his own, he ducked into a pub to get out of the rain and away from pursuing press. Once in the pub, he thought he had to buy something, and the only thing he could think of was cherry brandy. (This is the official version.) Of course he was underage, and the press made a big deal out of it, much to the Royal Family's embarassment. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Deckman Date: 23 Sep 03 - 11:30 PM To "Guest Train Guard" ... Roy Guest, from England, came to Seattle, Washington (USA) in 1958-59. We became good friends and traded many songs. He taught me the version you just printed. I've always had great fun with it! Thanks for posting it and cheers from the NorthWest corner of America! Bob(deckman)Nelson |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Gareth Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:13 PM Mrr - Thats Hob y Deri Dando - a related shanty - see the threads in the heading. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: GUEST,Mrr (thought I had a cookie here) Date: 23 Sep 03 - 01:55 PM I know a CRUSHER Bailey, is it the same? Crusher Bailey had a sister(harry diddy dumby) Laughed likke blazes when you kissed her (let us sing again boys), saw her coming to the water (Jane sweet Jane), (something I can/t remember) Jane Jane come to the glen, who'll sing praise of shellicock hoyt, jane jane comne to the glen, who'll sing praise of shellycock hoyt) - or something... |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: GUEST,Train Guard Date: 23 Sep 03 - 01:24 PM The connection with the Taff Vale Railway has already been mentioned. A few verses. Cosher Bailey had an engine, And it always needed mending, It did nineteen miles an hour, On the night run up from Gower.... (Did you ever see, Did you ever see, Did you ever see, Such a funny thing before...?) Cosher Bailey's brother Norwich, He liked his oatmeal porridge, And he went to Cardiff College, For to get a bit of knowledge... Cosher Bailey went to Oxford, To attend his matriculation, But he met a pretty barmaid, And he never left the station... Cosher Bailey went and died, So they put him in his coffin, Till they heard someone knocking, Cosher Bailey...only joking! Well, the devil wouldn't have him, And it really was no wonder, So he sent him back to earth, To make a hell upon the Rhonnda |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Gareth Date: 23 Sep 03 - 12:32 PM This fine cultural Ballad has been the subject of discussion in Folk info - Click 'Ere as we say in the Valleys for the thread. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: EBarnacle1 Date: 23 Sep 03 - 11:51 AM Oscar Brand, in "Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads," lists the song as "Crusher Bailey." His derivation agrees with what is said above. |
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Subject: So who wrote it? From: Steve Parkes Date: 23 Sep 03 - 10:53 AM I read somewhere in a book on railways/locos that CB was chief engineer for one of the old railway companies; he built a tunnel, and gave himself the honour of driving the first train through it ... or at least as far as it would go before the chimney hit the roof. No idea what book it was (it might be one of mine, but there's a lot to look through), or even if the story was true and not just a railway myth. Steve |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Gareth Date: 24 Sep 02 - 07:26 PM Not a bad condensed history Ced2 - But remember the Crawshay's of Merthyr were not noted for thier love of Social Progress. The castle at Merthyr - Cyfarthra Castle was built, crenelated as a safe refuge for the Crawshay's, to protect them from thier workers if they ever rebelled. Richard Crawshay is burried in the picturesque village of Llanfoist - his grave was fenced off with an Iron Cage - ostensible to protect his corpse from those who would have burnt or mutilated it.
Gareth But the Devil would not have him,
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Bernard Date: 24 Sep 02 - 06:57 PM Mrs. Jones, she had a mangle She did wind it with an 'andle When she turned it at full power She did twenty sheets an hour...
Cosher's older brother Diar
Cosher had a sister Ella |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: GUEST,Ced2 Date: 24 Sep 02 - 03:59 PM Not sure who wrote the proper words (as opposed to the risque words as in "brothers Morgan, Matthew etc) but one source gives the tune as being from an old Welsh folk tune "The Black Pig". Cosher was a real person, an ironmaster who built (or had built) the Taff Vale Railway in 1846. According to local legend Cosher drove the first train and got the loco stuck in a tunnel. The Taff Vale, was at one time the most profitable railway in the U.K, (at a time when Britain was at war and good steam coal required to fuel the navy's ships was at a premium). Cosher died in 1872. His railway was at the centre of the infamous row in the early 1900's that led the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants to be central to the formation of the committee for Labour Representation (Labour Party) to seek immunity from punitive punishments dished out when the Taff Vale Company took them to court during a most acrimonious dispute. One of the Taff Vale locomotives now over 100 years old is currently pulling trains on the Worth Valley Railway in West Yorkshire. This is not the loco that got stuck, it was built by Dubbs & Co in Glasgow in 1898? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 24 Sep 02 - 02:13 PM Robert Graves refers to the song in his WW1 autobiography Goodbye To All That. I think I recall that he gave the name as Crawshaw Bailey. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: GUEST,Valleyboy Date: 24 Sep 02 - 02:57 AM Nearly s2p, Well it seams the Prince of Wales Came to see our lovely Vales He got drunk in Tonypany On a glass of Cherry Brandy Theres lovely for you, Isn't it. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Peter Kasin Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:00 PM Have also seen the name as "Crusher Bailey" in a version of Hob Y Deri Dando. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Micca Date: 23 Sep 02 - 06:20 PM Fretless, if you can fit it to Cosher Bailey by cutting the repeats you may as well have the other "extra verse"...hee hee Come, into the garden Maude And don't be so particular Come, into the garden Maude And don't be so particular If the grass is cold and wet, If the grass is cold and wet, If the grass is cold and wet, We'll do it perpendicular. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: fretless Date: 23 Sep 02 - 03:26 PM Micca, That could be it. It's got the right elements and if you drop the repeats it fits the Cosher Bailey meter. Nice to have that question solved after 37 years. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Micca Date: 23 Sep 02 - 12:41 PM Fretless, I think the verse you are referring to is an "extra verse" in" Landlord, fill the flowing bowl" and goes thus: If I had another brick I'd build by chimney higher If I had another brick I'd build by chimney higher That would stop my neighbour's cat, That would stop my neighbour's cat, That would stop my neighbour's cat, From pissing on my fire |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Schantieman Date: 23 Sep 02 - 12:35 PM One of the verses I used to sing as a Scout was:
Now he had a brother Rupert Steve
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: songs2play Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:43 AM I'm sure there was another verse ending- Oh there was a prince called Charlie And he visited The Valley He got drunk in Tonypandy On a glass of Cherry Brandy. With reference to Prince Charles ? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: fretless Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:23 AM The thread linked by Snuffy has all the verses I remember hearing (and a few more) except one: about a cat on the roof, a chimney, and putting out the fire. I only heard it once, at a hostel in Scotland or Ireland back in '65. It was too beery that night for me to remember more. |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Mr Red Date: 23 Sep 02 - 10:06 AM everyone wrote it. Which verses sopecifically? |
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Subject: RE: Help: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Snuffy Date: 23 Sep 02 - 09:48 AM This thread traces how Cosher Bailey developed from versions of Hob Y Deri Dando. WassaiL! V |
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Subject: Cosher Bailey: Who wrote it? From: Mr Happy Date: 23 Sep 02 - 08:11 AM any one know the composer of 'Cosher Bailey'? i'm looking for more verses as well + similar compositions. |
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