Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?

Subject: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: khandu
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 08:43 PM

For eons, I have tried to figure how Stephen Stills makes his acoustic guitar sound the way he does. The sound I am speaking of can be heard on "Blues Man" from the first "Mannassas" album. It can also be heard a bit on "Suite:Judy Blue Eyes" as well as on "Word Game".

It sounds as though the strings are awfully loose. What is his method?

I'll give a khandu khiss to any female who can answer and a "Thanks" to anyone else!

khandu

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 09:04 PM

Well, I've read that when they recorded "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" (about Judy Collins, BTW), Steve tuned all his strings to E.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: khandu
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 09:09 PM

Surely not!

khandu

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Pene Azul
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 09:41 PM

According to this article (Guitar Player Jan. 1976):

For tunings on the electrics and acoustics he uses standard, open E, open D, and a "Bruce Palmer Modal tuning," with the strings E, E,E, E, B, and E, working from the bass strings first. This tuning was used for his interludes on "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" (Crosby, Stills, and Nash, Atlantic, At S-8229).

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 10:14 PM

WOBH! Neat tuning! Neat sound! The doubled bass E's give it a thrummy sound like an old DC-3 getting ready for take off.

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST,Hobart Kreebleman
Date: 24 Sep 02 - 10:28 PM

How does he do that? He's too stupid to know better.

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: khandu
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 10:24 PM

After reading the responses, I tuned my guitar to the E-E-E-E-B-E tuning. Very strange, but I can hear possibilities there. It will take a bit of time to make good use of it. However, it still did not sound like Stills. Perhaps I need new strings to give it that unusual sound.

Thank you all for your input!

khandu

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 10:50 PM

E modal is one thing but D model is another. Try it, it's versitile and fun to play, not to mention all ya ' gotta do is drop your E strings to D and then to get to an Open G drop the A... Easy...

Bobert

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 25 Sep 02 - 11:43 PM

From the Guitar Player article Jeff linked to:

Stills got into a bidding war with a Japanese instrument reseacher over his 1942 Martin D-45. Stills paid $8,000 for the guitar...

For what Stephen paid for that D-45 in '76, he could have bought 12 brand new D-28's. Elderly Instruments currently has a 1941 D-45 for $135,000. That is the equivalent of about 70 brand new D-28's at today's prices. I'd say Stephen got a bargain.

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Sep 02 - 12:10 AM

I think you drop the G string to F#, Bobert--

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From:
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 12:41 AM

yes it's eeeebe unless yer bustin strings then do ddddad it's a lot easier on the pipes of whoever attempts nashes vocal parts

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 09:43 PM

Well, that is interesting indeed. So are there many chords to be gotten out of a setup like that? I'm going to try it out and see.

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 10:05 PM

Ellen McIlwaine does some VERY powerful material with all six strings on her acoustic tuned to the same note, eg "Sidu" on her Spontaneous Combustion CD.......
(Recently toured New Zealand and Australia with her, so heard that many times over a month)

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST,kirk
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 08:35 PM

try daddad, it sounds cool

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Karin
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 09:34 PM

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/the_basics/guitar_tunings.html

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: open mike
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 12:58 AM

or dadgad...for which i am sure there are many references here.
There is a section about alternate tunings on Mary McCaslin's page
HERE

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST,philly
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 05:33 PM

how did csny play teach your children? i cant find tabs that are close to the real way they played that song. Where they in regular tuning?

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Mar 10 - 10:12 AM

I worked with Stephen several times and learned a lot from him. He used the Bruce Palmer tuning EEEEBE for several of his greatest songs. The powerful chiming sound you hear in the studio recordings, and not hear when he performs live, is the combination of using a condenser microphone, usually a Neumann U-87, with lots of audio compression, usually, back then, a Urei.

Condensers are very fragile and not used live very often. Stills chooses not to use compression live for his own reasons.

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 13 Mar 10 - 11:00 AM

Certainly one of the best guitarists produced by the Colonies, and somewhat under rated I think. I tried to work out ' 4 and 20' many years ago, I worked it out in standard tuning but the fingering was strange, then the penny dropped, he was tuned to EADFBE

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST,Mitch
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 08:46 PM

teach your children was in Dadgbd just the standard double drop d because it was written by Graham Nash who didnt have the knowledge of the crazy tunings Steve & Dave were playing with

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST,Matt
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 01:55 PM

I wouldn't say that Graham Nash didn't have any knowledge of the tunings that Stephen and David were working with...He worked with them every day in the same studio while producing the first CSN album, the CSNY album, toured with them, and then went on to work with David throughout the 70s as the Crosby&Nash duo act. I'd say he was well aware of the tunings but decided not to employ them in his own songs.

Subject: RE: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 06:53 PM

hmm==have been listening to S.S. in my vehicle today.
and the music has a very metalic sound...Stills Alone from 1991

i was thinking that he had a D-35-s...any one confirm that??

Subject: RE: Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Marc Bernier
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 08:20 PM

I'm sorry, but I think that was the most interesting Thread I'v read on Mudcat in a long time.

Subject: RE: Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 08:59 PM

Well, okiaty... I talked a little bit about tunings 5-6 years ago... Here's one fir ya'll...

First of all, I go backwards from the high E string to the bass E string...

It's EBEBBE...

It's got that definite E Modal sound to it that Stills is so famous for playing... I just like those Bs because they give it more modal-ly sound...

Just remember... I do stuff backwards so start on the high E string...
EBEBBE!!!

This tuning absolutely rocks and so I'd recommend that if yer gonna try it then try it on yer second geetar 'cause yer not gonna want outta it no time soon...

I swear it!!!

B~

Subject: RE: Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 11 - 06:25 PM

I found a tab for 4 + 20 and Blues man..

Starting from the 6th string (low)

EBEEBE

The E on the 4th string and the E on the 3rd string are the same and eases the playing of 4 + 20 quite a bit..

This may be the tuning of Suite Judy Blue eyes also..

try it..

enjoy,

RJ

Subject: RE: Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: open mike
Date: 19 May 11 - 09:32 PM

i see this...Stephen Stills Signature Series Martin D-45 SS
"The Southern Cross." (there is also something about a southern cross inlaid pick guard?)

Subject: RE: Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 08:16 PM

Years ago I read that SS did Suite Judy Blue Eyes in open D - or G (sorry, it's been years). I just know it was an open tuning. I tried it and got the voicing to sound exactly like the recording.

Subject: RE: Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: evansakes
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 10:53 AM

Years ago I worked out a way to play Suite: Judy Blue Eyes, Bluesman, 4 + 20 and Word Game using DGDDAD. On the root chord you either finger the 5th string at 2, 7 or 11 but I think most of the time I just damped it with a spare finger. The G of course comes into it's own on the four chord (when you fret the 2nd string at 2)

If you play the four lower strings open and fret the top two at the third fret you get that classic Stills chord....the one he uses all the time in 'Judy'.

Can't remember whether the originals were in D or E....if they were in 'E' I probably used capo 2 (though D isn't so hard on the old voice....)

Subject: RE: Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST,axeman033
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 10:58 PM

Subject: RE: Steve Stills tuning
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 07:37 PM

axeman033                                                                            does anyone know isnt it so from stills alone if so please help me; whats the tuning and or the chords also everybodys talking same album

Subject: RE: Guitar: How does Stephen Stills do that?
From: GUEST,SmarterthantheAverageBear
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 05:39 PM

Well I've been playing the Drop D tuning and know the open G tuning as well, yet, when I tried the suggested "EBEEBE" Tuning at first, I pretty much got the "Stephen Stills Sound" from the jump especialy on 'The Word Game'..

Although I must say everyone here has some nice variations that could be some of Stephen's 'play' on the the tuning aforementioned..

Now, I can't seem to get enough of experimenting, as it's really opened me up to so many new possibilities and new compositions..

Thanks to everyone here except the idiot that wrote that "he's too stupid to know better"..well there's always an Ass in every group..so we all know who that is now..lol