BS: Is this the American way

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 05:26 PM

Taliesn, go to this site http://www.crua.co.uk find out what your passing comment on, educate yourself a bit more, maybe you won't use generalisations in your arguments.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 05:06 PM

Taliesn, you have not got a clue what your talking about but bless ye you have a go any way.

You rant on about Palestien and Israel and Ireland being an example, how can Ireland be an example, the idiots over here fly the flags of Palestien (IRA/rep/nat) and the Israeli flag (loyalist/prods), they use them to insult each other with. So the Irish American that supports the IRA supports the palestinians and all they stand for, how does America view Arafat?

Quote, I've also met ex-military Brit sand Scots, as well as Irish , mercenaries and they are no less cold-blooded professionals and *for hire*.free-lancers no less. They'll surgically deliver covert shards of hell for the right price anywhere ye please. So spare us the sanctimony

You have met walter mitty when you describe these people. I know what I talk about, the tab of being in the British Army not Scots, British Army is what sells the mercenary but the regiment served in is the main selling point.Ex para's, green jackets, Marines,not the namby pamby regiments, like Scots Guards,Welsh guards etc.

Many of my mate's have taken that route in the early 80's some going to parts of Africa and not coming home. Stop trying to blow smoke up my tail pipe it shows up your ignorance.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 01:45 PM

(quote) "Clean your own yard first." Not to belittle the tit for tat atrocities that are committed on *both* sides causing the N.Irish troubles, but the IRA are hardly a worldwide network capable of buying dirty nukes, bio- and chemical weaponry for use on strategic civilian targets... though I'm sure there are cold-blooded fanatics whom would if they could.

I've also met ex-military Brit sand Scots, as well as Irish , mercenaries and they are no less cold-blooded professionals and *for hire*.free-lancers no less. They'll surgically deliver covert shards of hell for the right price anywhere ye please. So spare us the sanctimony.

Besides ,according to BBC Worldwide I've not noticed any reports of the N.Irish wide-spread attacks so well publicized only a few years ago. Thought *both* sides of the N. Irish issues had finally "evolved" to the bargaining table.

So sorry if the the Isreali/Palestinian *troubles* have stolen your limelight of late ,but then I thought N.Ireland offered a better example of what's a workable peace.

I guess ,according to y'all, this is not the case of late. Guess it's time for the Irish women to grab you *both* by the scruffs of your necks and give ye another good shake to dislodge the remianing hell out of ye.

(quote) "The world and in particular the Middle East will respect you all the more for doing so."

Oh Puh-lease! The Islamic fanatics won't think twice about the course of their self-proclaimed *jihads* until a good 7.5 earthquake comes and swallows up whole cities starting with the Dome of the Rock atop the Waling Wall of Solomon's Temple and working its way from Rhiyad to Baghdad.

Compared to these networks , what remians of the IRA has been eclipsed by the widest of margins on a literally on a biblical scale. Wouldn't imagine seeing a Bosnia nor a Rwanda in belfast now would'ya.

Now kindly sit back down in the cheaper seats and wait yer turn, thank you.

The *only* ones whom can enforce the true law of peace of Islam are from within the Islamic world itself and I'm *still8 straining to see signs of an Islamic equivalet to a Gandhi. There may have already been some cnadidates , but ,no doubt ,they've already been slaughtered or threatened with fatwahs as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 09:29 AM

From http://www.crua.co.uk/index.htm

USA War On Terrorism As the horrific events unfolded in America at the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, I was dumbstruck. The sight of those once mighty building crash to earth taking thousands of lives with them, brought me to tears. The impenetrable Pentagon was in flames, the crowds were fleeing from the WTC covered in dust, we caught the image of a man on crutches hobbling away from the area as quick as he could manage. George Bush said "This was not an act of terrorism, it was an act of war", he pledged to hunt down terrorists, as well as those who harboured and financed them. I totally agree with this, however terrorism does not just come from the Middle East, it is not just financed in the Middle East. If he is going to tackle terrorism, he must tackle it everywhere. So if I understood his message to the world, I can safely assume that when the FBI and other American security agencies finish the task of identifying those who committed this awful crime, they will then start on other terrorist organisations. The IRA, Real IRA and other terrorist organisations that have plagued us here in Northern Ireland for so long have long been supported, harboured and financed by sympathisers in America, remember Noraid and Martin Galvin. So, President Bush, are you truly committed to destroying terrorism. If so, you must not just target the Middle East, you must target the world including your own fine country. Lead by example - Clean your own yard first. The world and in particular the Middle East will respect you all the more for doing so. My condolences and heartfelt sympathy go out to your nation, America is after all our greatest friend and ally.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 07:40 AM

Amy, can you read? I do not troll read the article I posted the site.

Ohh please NC read the posts. Your not being asked to condemn anyone, the original replies were more than sufficient, so the issue really did not need to go this far, did it?

One point though, I do find it amazing that the outrage against people from the Arab world was wide spread and unjustified after 911.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Just Amy
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 09:35 PM

THIS IS A TROLL! Trinity church is an Episcopalian Church not a Catholic Church. It is part of the Worldwide Anglican Community (read Church of England) and therefore would have welcomed the Police with open arms. Don't believe everything posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: NicoleC
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 08:32 PM

Oh please.

There's a difference between criticising America and writing the place off because a couple of Irish folks got offended by an unidentified who may or may not even be a US citizen.

Believe me, I'll stand first in line to criticise my country when there's a reason. But it's either trolling for flames or just outrageous to use an isolated incident that may not have even been instigated by an American, then make vague and illogical connections to other events, and use that as justification for a wholesale indictment of the country.

Sounds like an IRISH problem to be, not an American one. If ya'll are gonna use this as an excuse to be at each other's throats, the problem isn't on this side of the pond.

Random anti-American trolling is not part of the solution, it's part of the problem. You seem to want us to justify "America" in general, not respond to an incident.

Come join us on any one of the BS political threads when there are specifics to discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 07:54 PM

What brought America into both world wars was the attack on American interests. Until then America was quite happy to play isolationism. But Japan had other ideas.

Britain could have pulled out of the ww2 but it seen its involvement as a duty to its allies. It is really a daft point about what europe would be like compared to America if Europe was united like the US, America would be in the mire.

As it is America complains about the way europe does business especially the EU, how would it be if Europe was united like the US, simple America would be the small fish as they would not be able to dominate europe as they try to do.

Please do not be naive to think that any country goes to war without the opinion of gaining or self interest. Why are questions raised about the oil and minerals in Afghanistan. Every thing has its price and rewards America made money in the last war.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 07:42 PM

Your a bit hot headed Taliesn, Just cool your jets there , boyo , and calm your tinderbox of an attitude, yes Karma does comes to all.

Do palestinians not have a point with regards to Israel and the help America has given Israel?

BTW the post was in reply to spaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 07:34 PM

I am not condemning America I am asking a question and in doing so calling attention to actions that do cause problems in Ireland.

Such actions at the Mass are seen as trivial by many butmeans a great deal to people in Ireland. One side uses it as a reason to hate the other and it is pathetic that such issues carry such weight he but they do.

BTW did you ref to sleeping it off, not all Irish drink.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 07:30 PM

(quote) "what gives him the right to declare any country as a threat to world peace when his own country is part of the problem more than it will ever be the solution. "

I'm no Bush supporter, but the ignorance of your statement portrays your own *ideologically correct* selective history a relegates your opinion to even less than your absense of a name.

I am fully aware of the geo-political sins of U.S. policy. *Unlike you* and you species of ideology I also take into account the history of record of what the U.S. has done to help solve world problems, ( not least of which preserving the Euros from destorying each other *twice* in one century ) as well as the breadth & depth of sins of the world's other regimes; past and present.

Honestly consider how much better would the world have been had the U.S. never happened and had just remained a patch work of Euro-colonies. Is Afrcia's history under Euro-colonization any guide?

Get real will you? Unfortunately the political culture of radical Islam will forever go down in history for producing this blot most abhorant as the keynote defining the dawn of the 21st century. Not something anyone should be proud of .

Karma comes to all.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 07:08 PM

I take it you do not go for principles, maybe when Bush goes after the terrorist supporters in his own back yard, and we all know his gungho speeches on those who harbor terrorists, he might be taken seriously.

But as doing it bigger better than anyone eles is an American way, what gives him the right to declare any country as a threat to world peace when his own country is part of the problem more than it will ever be the solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 07:06 PM

(quote) "I take your criticism on the gutter speek, I posted without blanking the bad words out, I do apologise for this. "

And your gesture is appreciated. Now we can talk. ;-)

The turning away is hardly reason to then construe that there is , defacto, a vast undercurrent of "solidarity" and then be outraged. That's all I was calling you account to.

As with the story of the historic Molly Maguires, there were cold-hearted thugs and killers on both sides. Didn't the combined efforts and voiced opinion of the women of Ireland finally tip the balance to the cause to finally force a "cease the viloence" accord? My God if the South Africa of Mandella & LeKlerk could reach an accomodation to save themselves from themselves in order to evolve forward, then Ireland most certainly could.

Are there those "on both sides" whom have yet to contribute to the heeling process forward becasue they still harbor their private vendetta's. "Obviously". That should not take away from the larger momentum going forward.

Now if only the Isreali/Palestinian impasse could learn something from tihs apparent evolution from beyond the Irish Troubles .

There is still something to be learn , right? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 06:51 PM

A small incident and somehow it's been extrapolated into "the American Way."   Yeah..........right.........

Give it a break.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 06:28 PM

I take your criticism on the gutter speek, I posted without blanking the bad words out, I do apologise for this.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 06:17 PM

It is far from a troll, my reasoning is this, the toogood mother has been ripped into for abusing her child,I look at issues such as the financing of terrorists the moral support given to such groups, who murder unborn babies and children. Turning away PSNI members lends such moral support,such should be condemned not trivialised.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 06:09 PM

(quote) "But you moan about solidarity, what were these people showing? "

OK. I can see where this is going. Frankly I was just citing another example of why your obvious outrage in the context of the 9/11 attack on the non-Islamic West is as out of place as mine would be.

Meanwhile I 've not lost a moment's sleep over mine and I suggest you sleep off yours. ;-)

You resorting to gutter-speek already suggests that you need some serious quiet time.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 06:06 PM

I don't think there's much point to this kind of stuff. It's a troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 05:57 PM

But you moan about solidarity, what were these people showing?

Why did your political representatives sing on the white house steps "stand beside me stand beside, until you fix the problem then fuck off from beside me" the American way.

Ask the Kurds about the American way,they were left in the shit by Bush sr now jr is having a go at it. Used and abused.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 05:48 PM

(quote) "Why did you not turn away the out of state people when they came to help on 911? "

That's easy.

Because , my dear droogie ,*that* would *not* be the "American Way". ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 05:41 PM

There would be no problem if there was one wanker in NYC.

I remember stopping a bus load of Americans on the Newry border, NORAID members, people shitting themselves because they saw a LMG, what was the message that went back to America, British troops opressing the poor Irish along with a photograph of the soldier with the LMG.

No explaination was given to what the Americans brought to Ireland, the finance to allow terrorists to be fulltime no need to work they got money from friends in America.

Yes there are some wankers in NYC, should we not expect America to take care of those who support terrorists in Ireland the way America wants other countries to take care of terrorist in their countries or is America excempt.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 05:27 PM

Artbrooks, it also states that it marred the day, so it was an issue to those who felt it marred their day.

America wants to take on terrorism is it only the terrorism that hits America?

The disgraceful meeting by muslims in London on Sept 11 this year was dedicated to the "great day" were Americans not offended that something like this can happen in Britain. The gloating and praising of the attack was widely condemned no excuses.

People still support the IRA, attempt to turn away PSNI from Mass when they are there showing "solidarity" it make it a big deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 05:10 PM

Talisen, "I have had enough trouble dealing with this all-of-a-sudden new found so-called American solidarity with New Yorkers from states ( that will remain nameless) who are known as being on record promoting the taking for granted of an utter disdain , if not hatred ,for New York & New Yorkers in particular and "northerners" or "New Englanders" in general."

Why did you not turn away the out of state people when they came to help on 911?

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: NicoleC
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 05:04 PM

Dead on, Taliesn.

Just 'cause there's a wanker in NYC doesn't mean the "American Way" is the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 04:37 PM

So, according to the URL you provided, a parishioner, identified as "a volunteer" asked them to go away. Other parishioners, identified as "representatives from the Irish Consulate" asked them to stay. This really doesn't sound like an indication of anything in particular to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 04:28 PM

Just cool your jets there , boyo , and calm your tinderbox of an attitude. Since when does the "Amercian Way" take the rap for an Irish community still expresing its *imported* built-in predjudices. Since they were practicing a *thoroughly* Irish born and cultivated predjudice I fail to see where you have any ground to stand on to take this a your cue to launch into such a screed. Methinkst the root of this cultural indignity lies squarely with *your* patch of green earth, me bucko!

Ofcourse it was wrong , which I suppose that means it's grounds for a class action lawsuit then, Ay?, but it also ofcourse has zero to do with the "American Way". It would also be just ducky if those of Irish decent would leave their animosities and private political disputes back from whence they spawned. They have no relevence here.

I know and try to herd kittens.

Thus I , for one of N.Y. Irish decent , find your seizing upon a thoroughly Irish cultural incident being expressed in America as your reason for a knee-jerk screed quite out of line. Suppose theis means the immediate calling in of the "American Way" swat teams then?

(quote) "Considering the British have stood beside America with the "War on Terrorism", the fire, police offiers gave their full support and help are now not welcome what is going on? Are Americans to be considered our friends or users and abusers? "

Oh just where do you get off leaping to this line of tripe because of Irish impolitic behavior. Kindly don't blame others for the home grown bad manners of your own.

I have had enough trouble dealing with this all-of-a-sudden new found so-called American solidarity with New Yorkers from states ( that will remain nameless) who are known as being on record promoting the taking for granted of an utter disdain , if not hatred ,for New York & New Yorkers in particular and "northerners" or "New Englanders" in general.

(quote) " When all terrorism is crushed then we in Ireland can get back to a normal society, and only then can our political objectives be met, ...yada,yada,yada......

..yeah ,pal ,take the rest of that to your local pub will ya please?

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 04:20 PM

Speaking of knickers, I can't wait to get my wifes off -- they're bloody killing me. It's the way I tell em ha ha?

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 03:50 PM

DGYKIAT, "Ireland"

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 03:48 PM

I just come across this sight,through reading about the Irish traveller mother, Toogood. http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishinamerica/news/olstory.asp?article=1833059

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: artbrooks
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 03:22 PM

Sorry, but I don't know anything about this. Could a link or URL to the news story be provided?

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 03:14 PM

Uncle, it has alot to do with the American way, is it the American way to use and abuse, simply put the British troops who go to Irag and fight along side US troops do they deserve the thanks and some loyality as allies of the American people?

If they have to come home and help sort out the mess of N.Ireland and get murdered by an American funded weapon, are the people who funded this living up to the American way? In other words is it patriotic for Americans to fund arms to help terrorists murder their allies?

Mc of H hard to control some volunteers??? is that it can't control won't condemn them.

Here's a point that seems to go missing with some people, if we do not condemn all terrorists we give home to some terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 01:33 PM

Ah well, they say that a stopped clock is more accurate than a slow clock or a fast clock - it's going to be exactly right at least twice a day, and a slow or fast clock will never be exactly right.

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: DougR
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 01:28 PM

Wow! McGrath, sit down! Don't want you to faint and hurt yourself from the fall! This is the second time I agree with you!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 01:28 PM

I don't understand what this incident (however deplorable) has to do with "The American Way. Am I missing something?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 01:24 PM

Sorry it happened. It isn't the American Way. Neither is hijacking and flying airplanes into buildings the Afghan Way. If I'd have been there, I would have raised Hell.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Is this the American way
From: NicoleC
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 12:29 PM

I can't even imagine why they wouldn't be welcome at the service, unless MAYBE the volunteers in question were Irish and had a general problem with No. Ireland authority figures.

That's a big if.

Either way, it's just wrong.

Subject: RE: Is this the American way
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 12:00 PM

It's a bit hard sometimes to control what volunteers do, I imagine.

Subject: RE: Is this the American way
From: mg
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 11:25 AM

That was just plain wrong. I'm very sorry that it happened. mg

Subject: Is this the American way
From: GUEST,Ireland
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 10:55 AM

I get annoyed when people refer to the terrorist (both sides)attacks in N.Ireland as a war, but I get over it and put it down to ignorance.

A year on from Sept.11 an article refers to : FIVE members of the new Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) were told they were not welcome at the Irish community Mass in honor of September 11 victims on Tuesday evening, September 10. A volunteer approached the five members of the PSNI outside the Holy Trinity church on West 82nd Street in Manhattan and told them they were not welcome.

Considering the British have stood beside America with the "War on Terrorism", the fire, police offiers gave their full support and help are now not welcome what is going on? Are Americans to be considered our friends or users and abusers?

When all terrorism is crushed then we in Ireland can get back to a normal society, and only then can our political objectives be met, in a free and democratic manner enjoyed by Americans which at present the British Armed forces are putting their lives on the line to maintain. Fortunately the PSNI officers were invited in by the Irish Consulate, is this the freedom to be maintained and held up as an example to the world. The freedom to deny the right to worship.