Tune Req: The Famous Flower of Serving Men

Subject: Tune Req: famous flower of serving men
From: GUEST,tony toole
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 04:50 PM

has anyone got a tab version of Martin Carthy's guitar accompaniment to this song?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: famous flower of serving men
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 04:55 PM

If you can find v.24#4 ... p.6 of Sing Out! it's in there. Several people here have large collections of SO!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: famous flower of serving men
From: Susan of DT
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 06:28 PM

There are 4 tunes in the DT on the 3 versions of the words. I searched for [famous flower] and got three versions of the song, all of which had at least one tune. Try listening to them here. No tabs tho...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: famous flower of serving men
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 07:32 PM

The DT file FAMOUS FLOWER OF SERVING MEN is apparently a modern collation from a number of sources. No source is named for the first midi; it is, however, that noted by Margaret Olney from Mrs. Belle Richards, Colebrook, New Hampshire, in 1942, and first published in Ballads Migrant in New England (1953). Mrs. Richards' set was called Sweet William, and was given in 3/2 time, not 3/4 as here. The second midi, also unidentified, is a reasonable approximation of the tune Carthy used, though rather simplified; this is not traditionally associated with the ballad, but was borrowed from Hedy West, who sings a song called The Maid of Colchester to it.

Carthy's arrangement was transcribed in Martin Carthy: A Guitar in Folk Music (Doug Kennedy, 1987), but this is out of print.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: famous flower of serving men
From: cimikowski
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 11:58 PM

If anyone out there has this, I'd be willing to pay for a photocopy.
I checked and that back-issue of the magazine is no longer
available.

robert

---

Scan sent by e-mail.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tune Req: famous flower of serving men
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 04:04 AM

hei. I search desperately for a tab of martin carthys famous flower... .
could anyone give me a hand?
i would appreciate... [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Famous Flower of Serving Men
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:57 PM

Further to what Malcolm posted above about the tune Martin Carthy uses, some more information from a recent Guardian interview with Martin:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/apr/17/martin-carthy-interview-ed-vulliamy

The mention of that song raises a question: who wrote that giddy tune to "Famous Flower of Serving Men" which also drives the far more famous instrumental at the end of Fairport Convention's "Matty Groves"? One does not need to know the song to savour the story:

"Well, it was 1966, Swarb and I were in Skopje, doing a festival to say thank you to countries which had supported Yugoslavia. And Hedy West, whom Bob Dylan cites among his influences, was there, messing around with the tune of a song called 'Kate and the Cowhide' from Utah, written in 3/4 time. She sang a version in 9/8, and Swarb and I were flabbergasted.

Well, I went on to use it in an arrangement of 'Famous Flowers' and Swarb joined Fairport and added it to 'Matty Groves'.

That's what folk music is: the intuitive nature of the whole thing among people who love messing about with stuff and coming up with something else to keep the continuity going; people who aren't intimidated by how venerable it is. A song cannot survive if it is not being played – it is either played or it perishes."

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Famous Flower of Serving Men
From: GUEST,robert
Date: 08 Aug 13 - 11:52 PM

The guitar tuning is DGCGCd. The basic chords (names unknown) are as follows:

Chords:

x07070
x09090
x05050
x04040
x04040
x02020
x0(11)0(11)0
x0(14)0(14)0
x00000
200000
320000

There is a DVD that shows a close-up of him playing this song (and 6 others) and you can clearly see the chords he is playing --- Sound Techniques, Guitar Maestros Series 1, available at www.soundtechniques.co.uk.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Famous Flower of Serving Men
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Aug 13 - 04:43 AM

Can't recall Carthy's tune but MacColl sang the superb Aberdeenshire one collected by Gavin Greig on one of his early Folkways Child Ballad ones - presumably included in the Greig Duncan collection as 'Sweet William'.
When she was compiling The Essential Ewan MacColl songbook she said that he used this tune as the basis for a number of his songs, most notably, 'Shoals of Herring'.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Famous Flower of Serving Men
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 09 Aug 13 - 05:29 AM

MacColl's version, titled "Sweet William - The Famous Flower of Serving-Men" released on The English and Scottish Popular Ballads: Vol. 3 - Child Ballads can be heard on youtube, here

Subject: RE: Tune Req: The Famous Flower of Serving Men
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Aug 13 - 05:54 AM

basically MC uses the guitar a bit like Joni Mitchell uses an appalachian dulcimer in this tune.

That is to say he gets the tuning. Then he applies what would be a two finger A7 shape in standard tuning.
The opening riff you can work out just fiddling round moving that shape up and down.
The accompaniment is basically just that A7 shape and ever so often he bonks one of his spare fingers down on the sixth string. I would imagine the bonking interval would be different for different singers - depending on how you punctuate the song.

I'm not making light of the creation of a masterpiece (how Jimmy Page neglected to do a hard rock version of that riff I will never know!). I don't think slavishly copying tab will crack this one for you. Learn the words, grasp the technique, and bonk at will.

Last Wednesday Martin was at the Wizz Jones gig in Sidmouth. He gave me one of those - I know you from somewhere looks and said hello. I said hello back.