Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha.
Date: 25 Oct 02 - 06:42 AM

And once again fair play to you Derrymacash, a great tribute to oul Albert.
And I will really get your dander up by saying,
dont forget Thomas Moore`s "Let Erin Remember",
"On Lough Neaghs banks were the fisherman strays,in the clear cool eve declining,
He sees the Round Towers of other days in the waves beneath them shining". Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Áine
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 05:11 PM

Bhuel, a Aidan a stór -- Larry's out of town for a few days, so I'll be his 'front man' so to speak, and thank you for him . . .

I was hoping that you would see this thread, knowing where you come from, and I was also hoping that you would be willing to help with a song or two(?) for the CD. With a talent like your own to spread the word for Brian and the fishermen, we'll be doing all right!

Slán go fóill, Áine

Subject: Lyr Add: ALBERT'S FAREWELL TO THE LOUGH
From: Aidan Crossey
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 04:54 PM

I've been lying low as regards the Mudcat for a wee while, but I'm delighted to see this thread and Larry's follow-up getting so much action!

I don't want any of the following to be construed as a puff-piece, however I'd just like to add a few bits and pieces. Some of you may know that I edit the website "Pay The Reckoning" http://www.paythereckoning.com

where I've taken the opportunity to load up a lot of my original tunes and writings, as well as some stuff I've collected over the years.

I was born in Derrymacash, on the southern shores of Lough Neagh in an area known as "The Montiaghs" (after Mona Tí - land of the turf); my granda had been an eel-man in his early days and many of his "butties" - men like Albert Parkes, Jem McAlinden, Andy Hogan - were fishermen for eels in season and pollans in their season.

Many of my tunes are inspired by the experience of growing up in this area. I was surprised, looking back, just how many tunes I've written with the Lough, its wildlife and its lore as inspiration:

The Wee Lough (a reference to Lough Gullion, a small lake where some Lough Neagh eel fishermen from the Montiaghs also had a base)
Raughlan
Derryadd Bay
The Dabchick
The Dollaghan (a species of trout only found in Lough Neagh)
McGurran's Shore
Albert's Orange Eel
The Hairy Eel
Mick Doran's (Mick was a fisherman of my da's generation who was tragically drowned along with my cousin Seamus Crossey - there won't be their likes again!)
The Sconce

Also some of the stuff I've written or collected in the "Rants and Raves" section of Pay The Reckoning is directly connected with the Lough, or has the Lough as its backdrop - e.g. James Haughian's "Bonny Green Tie" and my own "The Ballad Of Joe Donnelly" and "Liverpool, Be Damned".

Anyway, thanks to Larry for his song. I learned recently that Albert Parkes, one of the oul stagers, a decent man and a great one for the crack, had passed on. I have a tape recording (courtesy of the mudcat's ard mhacha) of him and Jem McAlinden in conversation on a Northern Ireland radio show. It forms the basis for the following which goes to the tune of "The Croppy Boy".

The reference to the tra-doo comes via a mate of mine, Sid Blaney, who wrote a cracking short story some years back set in and around the Lough, called An Trá Dubh (The Dark Shore).

ALBERT'S FAREWELL TO THE LOUGH

The name is Parkes, from the bleak Bay Shore
I've fished the Lough for sixty years or more
I've baited hooks and I've run the lines
And I've lived through bitter and cruel times

I never larned for to write nor read
For books or larning I had no need
I need no map, no plan nor chart
For the coul' Lough water I know by heart

I spent my youth on a bed of straw
Where the flays did nibble and the varmins gnaw
And damn the feeding to grace my plate
There was only purters in the house to ate

And any money I ever gained
Was spent on porter and rum in Kane's
If I had money then I'd spend it free
And all were welcome for to drink with me

Money made, aye and money spent
And body broken, aye and body bent
But boys the crack when we made a haul
Down in McCorry's or the oul' Bay Hall

And orange eels, aye and hairy too
And eels that grunted, boys and eels that crew
And fairy weemen who were heard to cry
That wee Lough Gullion would not run dry

But now there's eels that we cannot sell
The oul' eel-fishing, boys, is gone to hell
You'd make more money signing on the broo
Than you'd ever make from the oul' tra-doo

My name is Parkes from the bleak Bay Shore
I've fished the Lough for sixty years or more
And done no harm, aye and caused no grief
And spurned no man cos of his beliefs

But now my time it is at an end
I'll never venture on the Lough again
I'm setting out for a distant shore
And I'll put my boat out on the Lough no more

Come all you boys from the Bay to Crow
From Derryadd and round to Kinnego
When you are out on the tear in town
Drink a health to Parkes who's buried in the ground


I think a CD of songs and tunes about the Lough would be great idea. There's been a few albums lately which are very local in nature - Gerry Lavery's "A Walk Through O'Hanlon Country" (songs from mid-Armagh) and Padraigin NiUallachain's An Dealg Oir (songs from South-East Ulster) to name but two. It's about time the Lough had its own collection. I'd be more than happy to play a part in such a project, in any small way.

Finally, if there's any way in which I can use Pay The Reckoning to "further the cause" perhaps the agitators could get in touch ... I could, for example, put up a separate page! PM me here or e-mail me at [e-mail]

.

All the best!

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 04:23 PM

What a memory I Have , the URL thingy for our Humble Website is as follows Http://loughneagh.pro.ie . If there is any of you who reads Books nowadays I can mention Two Books for the very Serious Student of Irish History with the Lough Neagh [ reputed to be for many instances The Great Famine Stopper ] as central feature . The First Book was Writen by our Grandfathers' Law Speaker The Great T. M. Healy Q.C. . It was him who fought our claim to Irish Public Right on Lough Neagh to The House of Lords in Year 1910 . The name that is upon this 485 Pages Book is " STOLEN WATERS " . A few Years Later he wrote a Precis [ 192 pages ] of it for us simple minded People .[ Perhaps I should say Ordinary , Uneducated People our Elders of then till read ] The second Book called " THE GREAT FRAUD OF ULSTER " in year 1917. I also recommend a Book by the Name of "The Land War of Year 1770 " when one of the Chichesters [ Third Lord Donegall abouts ] by RACK RENTING directly caused 400,000 Presbyterians { Mostly] when the 99 years [ three lives Leases ] all fell due ,to flee to America . StoneWall Jacksons People were tenants of that Chichester , and at the start of the War for American Independance , Did he not Aclaim ," By The Eternal , THey shall NOT Rest on our Land " and made sure they did not .Harrumpt. I believe he also stated that, after the War Was Won, that they were The Most Resolute Faction forneinst the British Crown . These People came from Scotland wie high hopes but were skint alive , as much as the displaced natives who were scarcely tolerated to exist in the badlands , by the alleged Landlords AKA Promise Breaking Undertakers , Established Church and RENT and CESS Extracters/ Enforcers . Good Luck in Finding any of These Books .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 07:19 PM

Brian... many thanks for the compliments. I am off to Chicago tommorow, thought I was going to spend the day in court today, but spent most of the day running around. I may be able to drop into mudcact in the morning, then I will e-speak with you all on Sunday. Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 06:48 PM

Please All, I am a bit Overwhelmed with all this and I most likely owe several of you answers . As I am 65 years old I am not great at this machine as some of you may suppose but I am good at the Emails in and out and looking up stuff but all these other things are not at me Hands as yet . O,cuinn will be down soon [ Some of these days ] and we shall send Larry some stuff as he has Requested . Mean time I am steadily printing out all Emails to search for the People I owe Answers to . I very pleased with Larry's Song . I believe he is away for the weekend making moves on our Behalf , A Great FRIEND of those in Great Hunger for Freedom . Best to All .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:00 PM

Please do! Cheers Lor

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Áine
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 11:43 AM

Here is Larry's new song, Lough Neagh -- Agus a Lór, may I please add it to Mudcat Songbook?

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 11:37 AM

I have that song in a German songbook from 1975 and the notes to the song are interesting for they provide a quite different angle (if you read the before last verse, you'll see what the note means):

The song has originated from the conflict of the fishers of Lough Neagh with the state-owned Toome Eel Fishery. They defend their traditional way of living against the EEC (now: EC) and monopol interests with their price and market controls (my translation)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 10:10 AM

New song on the way! I was going to run it past Brian... but I have to run off to work, and I may not be able to get back to this tread until Sunday... so, look for it on the new song post... Larry

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 12:19 PM

Around the year 1910 There was a court case that went as Far As the House of LORDs . For the many of you who dont know , that place Was and is the Highest Court in The Land . These LORDS , Barons Earls and others of the Landed Gentry Decided that the LORD's Donegal/ Shaftesbury Title to Lough Neagh and the Bann was righteous and that there was no Irish Public Right of Anything in the Lough regardless of Massive and Open Native Possession of all things from Antiquity . Our People Fished away, ducking and diving and all moves possible to continue their way of life . In year 1962 and also year 1964 Two Courts of the Queens Justices [ I am Being Sarcastic Here ] spewed the usual Drivel and do you know what ?? that not Twenty Years after the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of year 1948 [ not even Mentioned ] the Usual Drivel was being Spewed out again TWICE . I was there . The Fishermen Decided Not to Waste their Time at The House Of LORDs in the Cold Cold Winter of 1964/65 . Mind you that was near 1968 when we were Forgotten till Date . Visualise if you will their state of Mind . They had No Irish Rights and the only Rights were held by Five Jewish London Fish Merchants , the 1905 Lease of 5,000 years based on the 1661 Royal Charter . These Five owned the Tenancy and the paying of THE RENT of The Toome EEL Fishery which had just Lawfully beaten the crap out of them in the Courts of the Queen whose predecessor had issued The Royal War Prize Charter in The First Place . At this time one could smell in the Political Air a change of Events but this miasma of CIVIL RIGHTS InCOMING did not affect the Dickensian Courts of British Justice. Enter upon the Scene , the Belfast priest ,now of Toome who had been aware of the Court Case by talking to Fishermen NEAR TOOME . He must have at some stage told them to stop Kerning , Rymming ,Whinging and Crabbing and Girning ,moaning and groaning about their Long Lost IRISH RIGHTS and to be Practical and accept the UNACCEPTABLE . He urged them to gather their two or three hundreds of pounds apiece ,which they did along with about 600 other people ,their friends of the Lough Shore Communities and so bought out The Five [who it may be surmised also smelt the wind and took off ]and so They stepped back to Serfdom in under The Absentee English Landlord System of Tenure for the First Time and have been paying the RENT Since . All Well Homogenised by modern English Business Procedures so making the Reward for the Military SERVICES of a WarLORD palitable to their simple minds being Blessed by The Presence of A Priest ,an ancient Irish Requirement in any Project . You Know . They knowed it was wrong as they must have believed that "there was nothing else FOR It ". Even Today They Do Not Know who owns THEIR Co-Operative Shares but would like to, but he is not letting them know.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Ireland
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 10:17 AM

If the priest was to support your cause what actions could he take, are you saying because he is a priest he should automatically hold your views and not have an opinion of his own?

I agree with you on priciple but cannot help but feel that Dermod has a point "there is a touch of the hound scenting the hare" and that does not keep with democracy either.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 09:53 AM

To All , May I inquire if any of you have managed to get our Saga intill any Paper yet . or have any personal contact Information with personages like Katherine Boo to whom I could write . On Google rap in the name Rev. Oliver P. Kennedy and you will see where the this Seventy Years Old Roman Catholic Priest has been RE appointed by a Stormont Protestant Minister for a FOURTH six Year Term to aid this Subsidary British Government in keeping the 341 years Dispossessed in their Place . I would like Direct Comments and Opinions from many of you on his Participation in leading this Miserable Tribe of INDIGENOUS IRISH NATIVES the Unheard of Path of being Lead back to in Under The Absentee English Landlord System of Tenure wherin he ,as far as I percieve, now occupies the unspeakable Rank of the LANDLORDS AGENT . Or are you Priest Ridden Too, afraid to speak against      M. C. The Bishops of Ireland Have NO Trocaire on the Indigenous of their Own Country . Have you no Misgivings at all, at all . Two of his Cohorts have also been Appointed while We The Faction of Believers in our Forefathers Ancient Irish Rights are rejected and so without Representation on the Fishery Conservancy Board . Four men of our way of thinking were interviewed and Rejected . So much for Democrasy in the North .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 04:13 AM

Two questions, please:
1. Any eel songs - other than Lord Randal?
2. What is an eel stew called in those Northern parts, assuming it's anything other than "eel stew"?

Regards

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 03:11 AM

Have enjoyed reading through this thread, and the thread on "Follow me up to Carlow", both extremely informative.

InOBU's calls for demonstrative action on the part of the of Irish-American community were very amusing. Member Ireland's question regarding "native Americans", was interesting, particularly when viewed in conjunction with something stated by Brian earlier:

"Are we not Indigenous People Entitled to Indigenous Rights .Ask Doctor Julian Burger of The Indigenous Section of The U. N. In Geneva ."

I haven't had a chance to look into the site for the UN Indigenous Section to find out what Dr Julian Burger has to say but if this should go all the way to the International Court of Justice in the Hague, and if the courts ruling goes in favour of the indigenous tribe of eel fishermen - a pretty interesting precedent will have been set.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Oct 02 - 10:16 PM

Hi Dermond. By your use of the word but, in asking to hear from fisherfolk, I assume you may have missed that Brian is in fact, a Lough Neah Fisherman. As to hearing from the other point of view, I agree it would be nice to hear from our friend Tony, (we Quakers don't use titles, so no disrespect) But, I figure Tony Cooper has his hands full at the moment... but, who knows maybe he is a folk music fan!
Cheers Larry
Brian! it has been a good week here as well, though buisy and a bit frightening, my Genie is down in Verginia - near to all the shootings, walking about, as she has no car, right near highway 95, the expected staulking grounds of the sniper. BUT, she is now on a bus back home... I know how painful it is to write a big letter and have the computer eat it! Happens to my best work as well! Speak to you all tommorow. Nite.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Áine
Date: 21 Oct 02 - 08:33 PM

A Bhrían,

Here's my email address, in case you're feeling eloquent again on the morrow ;-) -- [e-mail] (my grandmother's family came from County Derry).

Oíche mhaith a chara, Áine

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 21 Oct 02 - 08:25 PM

I am feeling a bit Peeved at the moment I have just spent this last hour writing a letter to Aine . Waxed Eloquent I did . but on hitting the Submit Message Panel It did not work , several times . So I am away till my Bed . see you tomorrow Aine . Best Regards .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 21 Oct 02 - 03:11 PM

Fibula - I have to agree there is a touch of the hound scenting the hare in some of the posts since your original, most useful contribution. But I am assuming music is not yet a blood sport. I have greatly enjoyed reading Mr Hannon's posts. But the discussion would benefit from some input from the Toome fishermen. As another noted Irishman, George Bernard Shaw, put it - the best way to get to the merits of any case is to hear it argued with extreme bias on either side. Larry, as a former judge, would probably go along with that.

Dermod

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Áine
Date: 21 Oct 02 - 03:00 PM

A Bhrían,

Larry (InOBU) is a Quaker. He left the 'r' off the word. ;-)

I have a question about the 'roaches' -- If these fish are uneatable, then why in the world were they ever introduced into the Lough?

I know that may seem like a silly question to a man like yourself; but, when my daddy taught me to fish, we never took home anything that Mama couldn't cook, or was too small -- we always threw 'em back in the water.

Le meas, Áine

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 21 Oct 02 - 01:48 PM

Quakes ????   I never heard tell of anyone called that afore . However , I will now Kerne about an Act " THE GOVERMENT " done in the Seventies . Favouring the Existence of TOURISTS and the Angling Lobby and STEADFASTLY Ignoring The LOUGH NEAGH FISHERMEN . They Introduced a fish called ROACH in the Lough Neagh System . These Fish are uneatable and are tossed out on the Land for the Granny Gulls till ate . As said to me the other Day by a LOUGH NEAGH Fisherman in person . They have Reached PESTENSIAL Numbers like the Bull Frogs in Australia . ROACH are Caught by the Netfull with No other fish amongst them . Or one catches Other Fish and no Roach . Their Numbers are still Growing . What the end of it will be no one knows . They inter breed with Rudd and Bream producing Hybrids .It was a bad Doing of them .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Oct 02 - 12:08 PM

One of my fellow Quakes has a studio, and plays a number of instruments, I have been speaking to him about a few new song projects, this being one.
Cheers Larry
PS Fibula, granted Tony is not riding about on a charger, sword in hand, to bully folks into giving him rent, he does not have to, Arther did it for him! Now, he just sits back and reeps the benifit!

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 21 Oct 02 - 05:31 AM

er, folks, I posted the links for the sake of clarity because dermod asked about he co-operative. Just for the record, I'd like my involvement to end there. Arthur Chichester was a murdering warlord, no doubt about it, but I would not equate a 63 year old aristocrat in Dorset with Chichester, and some posts would seem to suggest a comparison.
I hope you reach a peaceful solution.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 08:33 PM

Hi Ireland:
As you are new to Mudcat, I will give you a short bio... Yes, I would have campained for the Lacota re" Mt. Rushmore, as I am, in point of fact, a judge in an Algonquin court, the Court of the Golden Hill Paugeesukq Nation. I have worked with Innu in Canada in trying to stop Hydro Quebec from stealing native land, and I have defended in Native mother's rights cases in stoping out adoption of Native children. Nope, I am not Native, my tribe, as it was refered to in the film, The Last September, is Anglo Irish - an odd wee rather unique collection of rare fellows. Drop me an email at InOBU@aol. com and I will send you a copy of my band's CD, "Nil sasta ach Amadain" the band is Sorcha Dorcha. The CD is half and half traditional tunes and my own ballads which are informed by my work as a political scientist for a number of communities. There is Yvettes Song, about Innu history and rights, The New Saint, about Roma rights, Amadou Diallo about an African in New York, shot 33 times by the police - by accident, (this is getting to sound like a comercial for the CD!) Well, drop me an Email with an adress and I will pop one in the mail.
It is a little thanks as your interest has helped me help Brian to put forward more of the story, and improve my understanding of the problems facing the fishers of Lough Neagh...
Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 06:38 PM

Thank You Ireland , I was Composing The third Letter as you had sent your Reply . While I am HERE May I URGE All to Fully READ ALL this Stuff Especially all The BLUE Clickys .PACE YOURSELVES I have The Impression that People flick over all too Quickly . It is 23:27 P.M. Here in Ireland . So Good Night to you All . It has been a GOOD WEEK .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 06:22 PM

One must Remember that fishing was/is for FOOD and that Angling for Sport and Tourism is a Sport probably only a couple of hundred years in Practice . For anyone interested Look up "SALMON Survival " on Google to see how long people have been on the River Bann. Also should be accepted is that every Water in Ireland was a FOOD Source . The Prime ones being built near by The Gentry who could spot the Local Natives Stealing HIS FISH ??? and with his dogs and his shotgun have some jolly sport seeing them off his property .{ PEASENT Shooting you know old boy ] In My Comments on here I have only Stated that the Fisher People paid THE RENT which eventually got till himself . I did not imply Amount but I believe it is several Thousands of Pounds . Never the less whether it is a Million or a Penny it is the Principle that Matters ,the implied Ownership Recognition by/of the Legally Enforced Servitude of the Subjugated .Gift of Royal Favour. Now if all RENT ceased from the Fishermen It would Affect The Landlord Little . He has 9,000 Acres of Land and possibly has shares in a big company with the Initials      P. W. C.   C as in Cooper . He is believed to be one of the Secret Rich ,he never joined the House of LORDS till the Last Day ,making only one Speech and it was not about Indigenous Native Irish People you can surmise .Not having any Parliamentary Duties He was not Obliged to provide information to The LORDS Interests Register .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Ireland
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 05:48 PM

Brian, I think what you are doing is right and just, it is pathetic that these people can sit on their butts making money from a source they should not have in the first place.

I am interested in what you post,for me any way it is educational, thanks for taking the time to reply.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST, Brian F. Hannon
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 05:30 PM

For "Ireland" a short history of Events simple as Possible to make a point , First The Nine Years War 1594-1603 . Ireland Reduced . Irish Law and Documents and Native Possession as Zero . Right . All Irish [ REMAINING ] now Tenants of The English in legal Context . 300 years of what ever youse would like to call it , Slavery , Subjugation , Servitude . Year 1900 ABOUTS . By Political Action and The irish LAND [note LAND ] Acts . It is generally Accepted/Believed that MOST of IRELAND was ALLOWED to be bought back by the Irish Farmers Tenants from the Absentee English LandLord Classes . But a dirty deed was done by THE GOVERMENT who paid only two thirds of the LAND Purchase Price so Burdening The Just Emancipated Raggedy Assed Dirt Farmers with one third of the Purchase Price . This was Spread over many years till the 1950's and even the 1960's in some cases till they were clear .A real Sneeky trick that kept our people down while in Debt . Now for the LEAST of Ireland, that Portion that was allowed to be kept by some Gentry . It was generally accepted that the "POOR Reduced" Big HOUSE People would be allowed to keep their Big House and Two Hundred Acres of Land usually the Gardens , Parkland ,Woods and a bit of adjacent River for a spot of Fishing . I make the point that The Irish LAND Commission MISSED the 102,790 acres LOUGH NEAGH as it was NOT LAND . So leaving our poor miserable Tribe [WHATEVER }LOUGHLESS and Mostly Landless as a few of us did get a few Boggy Acres on the Lough Shore . The Duke of Westminster still has 5,000 acres in Fermanagh that is in the North and The Duke of Devonshire has A Castle ETC and 8,000 acres in Lismore in the South along with five miles of SALMON RIVER as well. Even Mount Juliet of THE GOLF and the Fishing is An Estate of a mere 1500 acres and there are Such Estates as that all over Ireland Especially in The Pale . It makes One wonder just how much was Returned . Not LOUGH NEAGH For Sure .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 04:38 PM

I used the Word Tribe merely to Identify the Fisher People as a group to give us an Ethnic touch. It does not signitfy too much . The livelihood of Fishing in Lough Neagh is a tradition that is pretty imbedded in those Families who fish in LOUGH NEAGH . There are not many Newcomers who wish to do so . As a matter of fact mainly by Education many have advanced to Better Work . Leaving The Lough to those to whom it is more inbred in their Bones. Also The Lough is Steadily Declining due Pollution . Which is Kept at Bay by a continuous Supply of new water from the Ten or so Rivers inflowing 1/ The Maine , 2/ The Six Mile Water 3/ The Blackburn 4/ Crumlin 5/ Glenavy ,6/ The Tunny Cut ,now a naturalised Canal which drains Portmore Lough and a lot of low lying Ground there 7/ the Closet River [what a name ] 8/ The Upper Bann flowing from The Mountains of Mourne 9/ The Blackwater which even recieves water from The South 10/ The Lower Back River [Small] 11/ The Ballinderry 12/ The Moyola . AND The LOWER BANN RIVER which carries all out to The Atlantic Ocean . Also There is plenty of Wave Action and Wind keeps Everything on the Move . and the Third Factor The HEAT of an Very HOT Summer which we normaly Dont Get . We would get the Green Algae is the Right Combination occured Sic : LITTLE Rain , No Wind and Hot Weather for many WEEKS . We get such a Combination about every 15 years or so. The State of the Water is TOLERABLE Normally . Fishing in the Lough is normally done by those who live within three miles of it or nearer if possible . When The Tourist Bumf refers to Fishing in Lough Neagh they are Refering to ANGLING in the Rivers that I have Listed . Angling is too Dangerous out on the Lough .It being 15 miles long and 10 miles across . It could be tried by a few small boats with one Large Normal Boat Riding herd for Safety . See next Letter .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Ireland
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 11:28 AM

I know this is off topic but can I ask Larry if he has campaigned for the right of the Ogalala Nation or "native Americans", with regards to the Mount Rushmore monument on what is their sacred place. Just interested,no offence meant.

Brian when you use the word tribe, does that mean that only people in that tribe would be in your opinion those who should be allowed to fish on the lough? Or does the problem affect the wider population of Ireland in general?

I wonder what would happen to the landlord if every one was in the position to stop fishing,and stop the funds going to this parasite.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 09:05 AM

Up till year 1930 all the Fishermen had was their FISHER COTE about 15 feet in length and powered by Oar and Sail . In year 1931 , which must have been a Good Fishing Year , some the Fishermen got their Boats fitted with Inboard Englines for the First Time with a few feet added on to such lucky fishermen . Duffs of Drumany Ardboe specialised in this Great step forward and fitted many as the years passed . Usually A FORD Engine second hand of a certain type . Up to Present Year 2002 English Law Proscribes the Boats not to be any longer than 26 feet . No Government Grant is a Fisherman Dares build his new boat any longer than this. There are Few Boats above the Limit . Sort of an Extension of Penal Law The £5 Horse .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Áine
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM

Here's an article from the The Age website, giving a few more 'details' on ol' Tony the Earl. No wonder Brian and his fellow fishermen are in such a lather about this fella:

An English nobleman follows his family motto

By CHARLOTTE EDWARDES AND CHRIS HASTINGS
LONDON
Monday 28 January 2002 (World News)

The 10th Earl of Shaftesbury's friends can hardly believe the transformation. From a shabbily dressed loner who would spend every lunch and supper at the same restaurant accompanied only by several bottles of red wine, the aristocrat, 63, has become a cocktail-drinking bon viveur dressed in leather trousers and open-necked pink silk shirts. His neck is adorned with a gold chain. The reason for Lord Shaftesbury's sudden change in outlook is his new fiancee, Nathalie Lions, 27, a French lingerie model. She is, he insists, of impeccable lineage.

"Her family is from the Haute Savoie - The House of Savoy - which is very close to Geneva," he says.

It is this distinguished breeding, perhaps, which makes the twice-divorced earl (family motto "Love, Serve") so relaxed about the fact that his Miss Lions has so far cost him, in his own words, "a million pounds in two years". Only the other day, he said, "she came to me and said, 'Darling, can I have a cheque for 50,000?'."

What Lord Shaftesbury appears not to know is that suggestions are being raised that his innocent betrothed may have, in the past, posed for pictures which could not, in all conscience, adorn the walls of St Giles House in Dorset, the earl's family seat.

Photographs of a stunning young French model by the name of Nathalie Lions appeared in Penthouse magazine as a "Penthouse Pet" in February 1991. The pictures were said to have been taken when the model was only 16, which would make her current age 27 - the same age as the earl's fiancee.

While he was himself struck by the superficial similarities between the two women, and the fact that they share the same name, the earl insisted this weekend that his companion and the glamour model were not related.

"Hand on my heart, I don't think it's her," he said, after being shown one of the Penthouse pictures. "I do recognise some of her features, but I have known her for some time and I just don't see her in that photograph. I know her as well as anyone - apart from her parents, that is."

Lord Shaftesbury met Miss Lions in Geneva in 1999. It was, said the earl, a difficult time in his life - his French mother was dying after a long illness and he was going through an acrimonious divorce from his second wife, Christina, whom he had married in 1976.

"It was awful," he said, "then I met Nathalie. We liked each other very much. After my divorce came through we caught up. We hope to get married next spring, but we haven't decided where in France yet."

"Having been divorced twice, it's jolly nice to know you can still find someone who really loves you."

Such is the depth of the earl's affections that he does not hesitate in acceding to Miss Lions' requests for additional funds. He had recently asked why she needed more money.

"I said to her: 'But my love, why do you need another cheque?' And guess what she said? She said she wanted a new car - an Audi Quattro." (emphasis added)

The earl, who is planning to move to France, added: "My sister and her husband are delighted. All my friends are delighted."

Subject: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 08:01 PM

It was the item from AMOS That I was directing my Question to for Clarity . I was not sure whether he was refering to Us or The LandLord . Lignite is a mineral and as such is claimed by The Goverment who claim all mineral rights in the North . But in the Early Seventys He tried to claim THE WATER of LOUGH Neagh . But he was foiled by even a couple of his Distant Cousins in Stormont who said that we cant have that and took legal advice on it . A Bill was passed through Parliament all the way from the old Stormont Goverment till The House of LORDS and even signed by the Queen . The water is Held by The EHS Dept now .It was very Discretely done .I have often wondered how this Bill and the 1661 Charter meshed . If you are particularly interested in the Lignite Question . I have material on it . Just Ask .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Ireland
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 06:16 PM

Did the absentee landlord, get money from the lignite aswell?

I honestly didn't know about this,so much for natural resource's.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 05:46 PM

Please Clarify a point for me ,, Are you refering to The Absentee Lord or The Fisher People . Thank You .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 05:34 PM

Good Question , Lough Neagh being a Property . Follow this Line of Thinking . As an Example if One owns a Property in a normal country one has the liabilities , responsibilitys , up keep, Painting , Cleaning ,etc etc of it As well as the Beneficial PROFITS of it . But NOT LOUGH NEAGH . The Care of Various Bounties of the Lough are the Responsibilities of a selection of Goverment Departments , WATER for Human Consumption, Industry , Amenity , , Fishery Dept for Fish , Ramsar for the Birds and Wild Life , Tourist Board for Fishing , especially For The Remnant SALMON Shoals which may still be caught by The Lucky Tourist up the Lough Basin Rivers .ETC ETC ETC . Even the Uncultivatable Lough Shore which are usually not more than three hundred yards and the width of the adjacent farm is marked out as one of them area of Natural Interest, a Fringe of Land Protected all around the LOUGH and are supposed to be Grazed LIGHTLY by the Farmer Owners leaving for Cover for Birds . All paid for By The TAX and RATES Payers of the Country . If one of you will read all that Stuff marked by the Blue Clickys , a perceptive Person would appreciate that Some Goverment Depts would like The Indigenous Native Irish Fisher People of LOUGH NEAGH TO DISAPPEAR . More Fish for The TOURISTS and the Assines of the Royal Charter . He also gets Royalties from Sleeket GUN Clubs usually Town Business Men who hunt from the Islands and some Shores belonging to People of ""Yeoman Stock "", Ye Ken . and Royalties for Tens of Thousands of Tons of SAND and Gravels pumped up from the Lough Bed by Barges . " THE REASONABLE Stuff " of The Clicky Blues is subtile manervoues of the Yeoman Stock keeping The Ascendancy . If you Know what I Mean .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 05:06 PM

Yes... he takes care of Nathalie, so that there can be pin - up photos in the engine repair shops, whithout which, fellows who repair out boards would have to ask their mums to needlepoint, "Home Sweet Home" or "Be Good or Be Gone" doylies to frame and put on the walls, causing an excess of work for their mums, who instead can shuttle tea to the workers, thereby speeding the work on the outboards, thereby increasing the productivity of Lough Neagh Fisheries, other than that.... I would have to ask Brian what Tony does for his share!
Larry

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Ireland
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 04:30 PM

Who is responsible for the up keep of the lough, does this fella do anything to earn his money.

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 03:57 PM

To Fibula Mattock , Thank you for putting up The Priest's Written Statement wherin he WROTE his Admission of the Fact .                QUOTE : The Co-operative subsequently negotiated the Purchase of the Title to the Scale Fishing Rights on Lough Neagh . This is Dated 22 June Year 2000. This was a surprize to some fishermen who held the Belief that the Scale Fishing Rights were theirs by Native Ownership ,A view held By their Lawyer The Great Paddy Duffy{R.I.P.] of Brocagh . Please be so good as to put up the Volume Two of The Same Inquiry where The Priest and his two Cohorts Mc Ilroy and Tennyson arrived on the fifth of September year 2000 to Stormont to Give their Evidence . But only The Priest Spoke . It is at the very back of the Vol Two . It shows us the Depth of his Patriarchy when even his Cohorts did not speak . THIS MATTER OF SCALE FISH WILL BE INQUIRED INTO , BELIEVE ME .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 11:52 AM

Áine! Do you have a Fax? This article is great, though it needs a new headline! BLOODSUCKING PARASITE INVADES THE WATERS OF LOUGH NEAGH, and after sucking the Fisherfolks dry, gives the cash to his 27 year old French Porn model girlfriend!!!! That is the title I'd give the piece!

Here is the scoop folks... and folkies...

Shaftesbury (no kidding) the parasite who inherited the Lough, at a randy 63, has fallen for the lovely 27yearold, Nathalie Lions, a Penthouse Model who has modled electric sex toys (sorry folks, this is hard news!) Well, at the shoot she asked the photographer if he had any batteries handy in order to try the toys out! Well, after two divorces (he just traded in his wife of 22 years for this newer model...) well, Anthony Ashley-Cooper (His people MUST have worked at one point, making barrels... when did his people go wrong and place themselves on the Royal dole???) Well any Tony Cooper, (the English Lord, not the very Tallented Derry musician) has spent ONE MILLION POUNDS on his sweetie, which would be a nice gesture if we did not ask ourselves how many cran of fish did Brian and Co. have to haul from Lough Neagh for him to fufill the wishes of his cutie... "She came to me and asked 'Darling, can I have a cheque of 50,000 pounds?" so Tony says with a laugh... he is laughing because he never had hands cut a thousand times by trawl lines as he struggled to feed his family, no, he just finds his cash magically desposited in his bank, not far no doupt from his 100 room kip, and 9,000 achers of prime land near Wimborne, Dorset, and the 102,790 acres of precious waters of Lough Neagh... Now, I think we should wish Tony well in his marriage, and as a wedding present, give him peace of mind, by helping him understand that it is far better to live off the modeling revinues of his new wife, then the hard work of fisherfolk in Ireland. After all, there is much less wear and tear on his wife from her work, where his Lough is over worked, and shows it! Nathalie is still thriving, and he could put some of the money he makes off her, aside to buy a new one when she wears out, you can't buy a new Lough Neagh, now that King Charles is long dead and gone.

Larry

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Áine
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 11:31 AM

A Lór,

Any chance you could get that fax from Brian scanned and put into a .txt file to send to me? I'd like to put some information, as well as link to Brian's website, on my own website.

Go raibh maith agat a chara chóir, Áine

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 10:39 AM

Fax number on the way! Check you email, Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 10:23 AM

Jeeves , LARRY , that remark reminds me of a News Item last year . An Amusing little story about our Absentee English Landlord while on HIS GRAND TOUR of Europe . I will need a Fax Number in order to send the Four Sheets to you for till read . You may regale all our friends here with it to what ever degree you like .

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 12:44 AM

Keep the information coming, Brian! It is great food for poetry and song! When times get tough, it is time to get singing! All the best, Larry

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: GUEST,Brian F. Hannon
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 05:31 PM

In the Year 1593 Ireland was in full Bloom of Irish Culture. The Irish Gaelic was Spoken in evey Townland and The Law of Our Brehons was in Full Glory.

Then in Year 1594 - 1603 The Nine Years War. In Year 1607 September the 14th, According to English Perception of property Ownership, the Last of The Irish Vacated The Property. The Tyrone, The Tyrconnell and The Maguire. Leaving nothing but the peasentary, who dared not claim to own even the ground that they were standing on.

This War was carried off by The Four Warlords, Essex, Mountjoy, One Cromwell, and one Arthur Chichester of DEVON, A Person of Particular Note, who coveted The Wealth of The Bann and Lough Neagh River System and The Vast Shoals of SALMON who arrived into the Lough Every Late Winter. He, By his Own Hand, Wrote Two Letters to his C.E.O. in London with his Opinion of The Irish Problem.

Herewith these Two Letters    THE "Confessions" of an ETHNIC CLEANSER WARLORD year 1601 in Northern Ireland, Head of Queen Elizabeth The First's NAVY in Lough Neagh from Masserene Fort, 14 May 1601. Recorded in State Papers Irish 355 and 356.

Start of First Letter . . I have launched the great boat and have twice "VISITED" TYRONE with her, and after with lesser boats, We have Killed, Burnt, Spoiled [Crops growing or saved and food stuffs] all along the lough shore, to within four miles of Dungannon [The Chiefs House]. From whence she returned yesterday, in which journey we have killed above a hundred, of all sorts besides such as we have burnt, how many I know not, WE SPAYRED NONE, of what Quality or Sex so ever Man, Woman, Child, Horse, Beast whatever we found that may have been of use to them and it hath bred such terror in those people, who heard not a drum nor saw not a fire of a long time [We may presume that this remark was some Colloqualism of those times], the Last SERVICE {???} was upon a Patrick O'Quinn, whose house, townland we burnt wife, so, childer and people slain and himself [It was reported to me] of a hurt received in flying from his house. End of First Letter.

After a Busy Summer he wrote a SECOND Letter on the 8th of October 1601, also from Masserene [Beside Antrim Town] Recorded in State Papers Irish 111. Start of Second Letter    "I have Found Said and Writen that it is FAMINE that must consume the Irish as our Swords and other Endeavours work NOT that SPEEDY EFFECT, which is expected {BY WHOM ???) HUNGER would be a Better, because a speedier, weapon to employ against them than the SWORD. They are the most Treacherous Infedels in the World. We have too mild spirits and good conscience to be their Masters. No Course {BLA ,BLA,BLA) will bring the country into quiet bu FAMINE, which is well begun and will daily increase. End of Second Letter.

ARTHUR CHICHESTER, LORD DEPUTY in Ireland [Highest Official of Queen Elizabeth The First [was of PURITAN Parentage and as you have read lived by the Sword . . He was Generous in such "SERVICES" to the Irish. It is by THE ROYAL WAR REWARD CHARTER earned by such work, that his Heir in year 1661 recieved it from King Charles The Second by their Line of Lords to this year 2002. The PRESENT ABSENTEE [GET THAT] will receive his   "ROYALTIES" from the Bonded Irish Indigenous Elements. An Unbroken Line of Feudal Fishing Rights unmoderated by any concepts of Equity as generally understood today. Like the 1948 Declaration of Human Rights, 1968 Civil Rights and now the Current Conceptual Expectations of INDIGENOUS Peoples as is being MOOTED in The Marble Halls of the U.N. in GENEVA.

Who will provide Justice for the LOUGH NEAGH Fisher People who have been 341 years in Legal Limbo and are now Skewered back in under the Powers of a Peer of The Realm from year 1965 as like Tenants of Old, all manervued by an Unexpected Patriarchial Organisation in year 1965 and Silence to Date from them.

line breaks and formatting added for clarity by mudelf ;-)

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Áine
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 02:49 PM

A Lór,

PMs sent to Kevin, Amos and Big Mick. 'Course Amos has already answered here -- but, he gave me a call a minute ago to tell me that he is definitely in on the Free Lough Neagh! CD; it'll just be a while 'till he has the time to lay a track down. He's almost finished with the the master for Vol. 1 of the Mudcat Sampler CD -- which he says is 'just blowin' my socks off!'

Now, if we could just get half of those great 'Catters to lend their voices and hearts to the fishermen of the Lough, we'd have something that would 'blow the eels off the eejits of Toome', wouldn't we? ;-)

Slán go fóill, Áine

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 02:38 PM

Hmmmm, whouldn't it be grand to send Lord Chitch the rent he wants in the form of ... fish? Great big stinking boxes of his share of the catch? I just had this great immage of Jeeves... "M'lord... the mail has arrived... I believe it is the rint, M'Lord..." There on a silver tray, a leaking, reeking box of eels, and a stack of boxes in the hall, crans of eels going gamey... I'd pay to see that! Larry

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 02:26 PM

Aine:

I am awful short on disposable time. I am editing the first prototype Mudcat Sampler CD and am faling behind in several othe rprojects as a result. So I can't commit to do a song or CD for this idea just now. But give me some time and let me get these backlogs off my plate, and we'll do something, okay??

A

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: Áine
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 02:25 PM

A Lór, consider the PMs on their way!

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Toome Eel Fisheries - Free Lough Neagh!
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 02:12 PM

Whoops... I am mixing up Jim Mullin and Pat Campbell. Pat Campbell I believe is related to the Campbell from the song Sons of Molly. I just emailed him about Lough Neagh, as well as my old pal Owen Rodgers from Tyrone... Aine... I did! I have been runing about like crazy on one thing and another... we will get a moment to catch up soon, God Willing! Would you like to do the PM to Kev and the others? I will email the popular halfwit Also Peg, she has a great voice and would be a great contribution to the CD. I will also ask Mary Courtney from Morning Star and Ray Collens - the clear voice of Belfast...
Larry