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Tech: Digital Tradition in Windows

Joe Offer 04 Jun 98 - 02:54 PM
Susan of DT 04 Jun 98 - 08:00 PM
Joe Offer 04 Jun 98 - 09:11 PM
dick greenhaus 04 Jun 98 - 10:21 PM
Joe Offer 05 Jun 98 - 05:00 AM
Joe Offer 05 Jun 98 - 06:05 AM
Joe Offer 04 Sep 99 - 05:55 AM
dick greenhaus 04 Sep 99 - 11:56 PM
Joe Offer 05 Sep 99 - 03:38 AM
Jon Freeman 05 Sep 99 - 09:53 AM
John in Brisbane 05 Sep 99 - 08:07 PM
Jon Freeman 05 Sep 99 - 08:54 PM
John in Brisbane 06 Sep 99 - 12:00 AM
Joe Offer 06 Sep 99 - 12:23 AM
j0_77 06 Sep 99 - 12:31 AM
Joe Offer 06 Sep 99 - 02:11 AM
j0_77 06 Sep 99 - 02:38 AM
Joe Offer 06 Sep 99 - 03:24 AM
Jon Freeman 06 Sep 99 - 08:01 AM
Rincon Roy 20 Feb 00 - 10:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Win95
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jun 98 - 02:54 PM

Well, I tried to transfer messages from another thread, and it looked really good in MSIE. Then I got a message Allan C. who said that he couldn't see the messages in the thread. Sure enough, I turned on Netscape, and the thread was invisible. Dunno why.

In another thread, Wilma asked for help installing the Digital Tradition database on Windows 95. Wilma, let's see if we can boil it down to a couple of mouse-clicks for you. You could say it takes just one double-click on GO.bat, but it actually takes a bit more to get to that point.

1. Download the Digital Tradition Database, spring98.zip, and save it in a new folder, all by itself.
2. Double-Click on the MY Computer icon, and go to the appropriate folder and find your saved file. Use a ZIP program to unzip (uncompress the file). Sorry - I can't give you specific instructions on unzipping, since there are so many different unzip programs. WinZip seems to be the most popular.
3. Once your Zipped file has been expanded into several files, find the file called GO.bat and double-click on it. Sit back and watch the database install itself. this may take a few minutes. When it's done, the database will be running, and you can start finding songs. type the letter "Q" at the main Digital Tradition menu, and you'll quit your program.
4. Now, go to the file called FOLKSONG.bat and right-click on it (point to it and click the right mouse button). Choose create shortcut from the menu that pops up, and a shortcut to the Digital Tradition will show up on your Desktop. If you become a real addict, you can drag that new icon onto your "Start" button, and you'll always have ready access to the database.

You can get cute and change the icon for the database - I have a musical score icon that I use.

The two main things to remember are this:
A. Click on GO.bat to install
B. Click on Folksong.bat to run the program.
That's all there is to it. Good luck.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Windows
From: Susan of DT
Date: 04 Jun 98 - 08:00 PM

Go.bat includes an unzip program.
Once you have the files copied into a folder, you should be able to use Run on the start menu to run go.bat in the right folder.
While I have Win95, I always install a new version from DOS since I like DOS a LOT better that win95. In DOS:
copy to a directory, go to that directory, type "go" - very simple.


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jun 98 - 09:11 PM

The unzip program that's provided with the Digital Tradition is just fine, Susan. One problem, though - it's zipped in with everything else. Unless we go to a self-extracting file, you have to already have an unzip program. Ya can't unzip without a zipper.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Jun 98 - 10:21 PM

Joe- Thanks for the lucid explanation. I keep getting intimidated by Windows, which keeps trying to run my computer without telling me what's happening.

All those sippers sound like a prospective new verse for the Strip Polka.


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jun 98 - 05:00 AM

Strip Polka? Now, there's a classic song, Dick. It's in the database, but I notice there's no attribution. Words and music were by Johnny Mercer, who recorded it in 1942. It was also recorded by Kay Kyser and the Andrews Sisters.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: Lyr Add: ZIP (Rodgers & Hart)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Jun 98 - 06:05 AM

Dick, I think this is the song you were thinking of:

ZIP
Lyrics by Lorenz Hart
Music by Richard Rodgers
from the 1940 musical "Pal Joey"


Verse
I've interviewed Leslie Howard.
I've interviewed Noel Coward.
I've interviewed the great Stravinsky.
But my greatest achievement
Is the interview I had
With a star who worked for Minsky.
I met her at the Yankee Clipper
And she didn't unzip one zipper.
I said, "Miss Lee, you are such an artist.
Tell me why you never miss.
What do you think of while you work?"
And she said, "While I work
My thoughts go something like this."

Refrain 1
Zip! Walter Lippman wasn't brilliant today.
Zip! Will Saroyan ever write a great play?
Zip! I was reading Schopenhauer last night.
Zip! And I think that Schopenhauer was right.
I don't want to see Zorina.
I don't want to meet Cobina.
Zip! I'm an intellectual.
I don't like a deep contralto,
Or a man whose voice is alto.
Zip! I'm a heterosexual.
Zip! It took intellect to master my art.
Zip! Who the hell is Margie Hart?

Refrain 2
Zip! I consider Dali's paintings passé.
Zip! Can they make the Metropolitan pay?
Zip! English people don't say clerk, they say clark.
Zip! Anybody who says clark is a jark!
I have read the great Kabala
And I simply worship Allah.
Zip! I am just a mystic.
I don't care for Whistler's Mother,
Charlie's Aunt or Schubert's brother.
Zip! I'm misogynistic.
Zip! My intelligence is guiding my hand.
Zip! Who the hell is Sally Rand?

Refrain 3
Zip! Toscanini leads the greatest of bands.
Zip! Jergen's Lotion does the trick for his hands.
Zip! Rip Van Winkle on the screen would be smart.
Zip! Tyrone Power would be cast in the part.
I adore the great Confucius
And the lines of luscious Lucius.
Zip! I am so eclectic.
I don't care for either Mickey –
Mouse or Rooney make me sicky!
Zip! I'm a little hectic.
Zip! My artistic taste is classic and dear.
Zip! Who the hell's Lili St. Cyr?

Alternate verses include:
I've interviewed Pablo Picasso/and a countess named di Frasso
Hearing rhumba bands will drive me to drink/Mrs Perkins isn't red, she's just pink.
That Stokowski leads the greatest of bands.
My artistic taste is classic and choice/Who the hell's Rosita Royce?


I would like to add that I'm not old enough to understand all of the names in this song.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: Digital Tradition in Windows 95/98
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Sep 99 - 05:55 AM

I just downloaded the Spring 1999 database, and I see it's changed a bit. Apparently, if you choose the link that allows you to Download the entire database (6.6MB)(click here), you don't really have to do anything to install the database once you've unzipped it. My instructions above are still good, but you no longer have to run the go.bat batch file to set up the database. It appears that even the tunes are unzipped, and I'm not sure I like having thousands of tune files running loose on my hard drive - why the change, Dick? Might it be an idea to have the database available as a self-extracting file next time, so people don't have to bother finding an unZip program?
Here's big news:
There's a new program, Donkeywork.exe (click), that operates the database as a slick little Windows 98/98 program. You just download the Donkeywork file into the same folder/directory where you have the database files. Double-click on the Donkeywork program, and it will set itself up, because it's a self-extracting file. Now, find the donkeywork.exe file. Drag it onto your "Start" button, and you'll find a Donkeywork icon on your Start button next time you use it (if you don't want it on your start button, right-click on the donkeywork.exe file and choose to "create shortcut" on your desktop - you can then use that shortcut to run the program.
Runs like a charm.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Sep 99 - 11:56 PM

Joe- The unzipped tune files are a result of setting Digitrad up for CD-ROM operation. Next edition will go back to zipped tunefiles in download versions.

Sometimes it's hard to keep things straight.


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Windows
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Sep 99 - 03:38 AM

Has anybody else tried the Donkeyworks search engine? I think it's really nifty. Even Dick gives grudging approval, but I don't think it's quite enough to lure him away from DOS and make a Windows man out of him (grin).
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Sep 99 - 09:53 AM

Joe, I have just downloaded the Donkeyworks search engine. It seems pretty good to me.

As a complete sidetrack, one of the songs I seached for was Napoleon Bonaparte. I noticed that it mentions Tommy Flynn. I don't know what happened to Tommy Flynn but I believe he used to sing in a pub called the Ship Launch in Bangor, North Wales in the late 60s.

We have a 3 day session in Bangor twice a year and this song is often sung at the end and some people stand up on chairs while singing it and drink a toast to Tommy Flynn at the end. The only thing is, the version given is a bit different to what they sing now. I can't remember all of it but it now has a line something like "And now I'm on a desert isle where the rats the devils do me afright"


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 05 Sep 99 - 08:07 PM

I just love my old fashioned version of the DT and have given it quite a flogging. I downloaded Donkey as soon as the link was posted a few months ago and I revisited it last night because I have never been able to figure out how to get the DOS version to print.

But I must admit that my confidence was dashed somewhat when I tried searching for Slieve (Sliobh)Gallen Braes. When I restricted the search to just Titles it did not appear under searches for slieve, gallen, braes, sli* or gall*. It materialised quite happily in the full text search.

The new font sizing feature is good for screen display, but the font sizing doesn't carry through to the print function. Furthermore it inserts hard carriage returns as per the screen view when it prints to paper, hence printed text is squashed into a narrow column adjacent to the left margin. The File Save function allows you to manipulate the text in Word/Notepad, but it's a pity that you need to go through the extra step.

I must add that I have not been through the Help file properly - there may be answers there.

Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Sep 99 - 08:54 PM

John, the help file doen't go into much detail and I don't think that it will answer all of yor problem.

I have tried your example and found that the searches in the "Titles" for the words slieve, gallen and braes will all find the song you were looking for - the only thing I can guess at is that you were trying to do a case sensitive search at the time.

the program does not appear to support the use of wildcards such as "*" but tries to match a substring without them eg, a search for "lie" would find the word "slieve" - the help file does explain a little about this and the use of "+" to search for more than one word.

I only loaded the program today (and I have never used the dos program) but apart from possible "user friendly" advantages of Donkeywork, it also has makes a nice "gigantic song book" that you can just sort of flick the pages with - I spent a couple of hours today just browsing the list of all songs - you just move through the list and the selected song is displayed.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 12:00 AM

I've just loaded the Donkey program on a different PC and as John says the search for "slieve" worked fine. You can change the print font under the File Print menu, but the formatting is unduly influenced by the font selection used in the viewer. Regards, John


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 12:23 AM

I've had a rather nasty system crash. It took me six hours to get this computer running after I tried to install a new version of MS Money on a hard drive that didn't have enough space.
I think I'm going to join Dick and go back to DOS. Darn.
-Joe Offer, limping-
(sympathy gratefully accepted)


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: j0_77
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 12:31 AM

Go Bat in widows works fine but when I then clsik on the Folksong Bat get a sharing violation message - same problem as mentioned above cant stop the lyric scrolling to the bottom nor print a song -


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 02:11 AM

Hi, j) 77 0 - does the sharing violation have something to do with both windows and DigiTrad wanting to use the LPT1 printer port? If that's the case, the message should let you choose which program uses it - choose Windows.
As for the printing problem - on the digiTrad meny, you can scroll down beyond what's visible on the screen, and you'll find some help stud and a useful opiton called "Disk Show," I believe. That option makes a text file called show.txt in your digitrad directory - it has the songs you last looked for. click on that show.txt file and notepad will open, and you can edit and print the lyrics.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: j0_77
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 02:38 AM

Thanx Joe ...don' t know bout the printer problem but i suspect it's a result of Microsoft policy to get rid of DOS - for example there are drivers on the w95 cdrom for my hp printer BUT no dos drivers - here's the catch hp supplies drivers but on 5" not 3" disk- so I am screwed.

Sharing Violation is a weird one - have any other thoughts?


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 03:24 AM

I'll have to think on that one, j0 - right now, I'm working with a crippled computer, so I'm limited in what I can do. Maybe somebody else is familiar with that sharing violation. I've seen it, but can't recall where.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 08:01 AM

jO_77, If you need HP drivers for DOS, it might be worth visiting the HP web site. Most manufacturers offer pretty good support with drivers available for download.

I thought that the sharing violation would have something to do with you requiring Share.Exe but I had a quick look at Microsoft Support. It seems to be another Mirosoft mess up. They deleted share with Windows 95 service release 2 so it looks as if even Windows 95 itself is not consistant - I give in - good luck!

A couple of comments regarding Disk Space and the song database. Donkeywork makes its own database dw_apr99.dat so as far as I can see if you only wanted to run DonkeyWork and not use DOS, you could safely delete Apr99.ask and save free up 11Mb of disk space. DonkeyWork also builds its own listing of titles and categories so futher smaller savings could be made.

The database includes a lot of small files that seem to only exist for playing the sound samples which I would imagine could be deleted if you only want the words. I have just had a look at the number of files 4K or less and Explorer reports around 3300 in this diretory that take up 2.83 Mb. The trouble is that my system allocates disk space in 4K units (even a file that is say 2 bytes long occupies 4K on the hard disk) so in reality they take up around 13 Mb - quite a difference!

Jon


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Subject: RE: Help for Wilma - Digital Tradition in Winows
From: Rincon Roy
Date: 20 Feb 00 - 10:02 AM

refresh


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