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Origins: Orange Blossom Special

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ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL


Related threads:
Help: Orange Blossom Special Harmonica (26)
Lyr Req: The Orange Blossom Special Don't Stop ... (7)


Paul Castle 22 Oct 02 - 05:00 AM
masato sakurai 22 Oct 02 - 05:46 AM
Leadfingers 22 Oct 02 - 12:57 PM
Skipjack K8 22 Oct 02 - 06:54 PM
masato sakurai 22 Oct 02 - 08:13 PM
Gary T 22 Oct 02 - 11:53 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 23 Oct 02 - 11:11 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 23 Oct 02 - 11:16 PM
Mr Happy 24 Oct 02 - 08:34 AM
Rick Fielding 24 Oct 02 - 09:37 AM
GUEST,Donald 10 Jul 06 - 09:12 AM
clueless don 10 Jul 06 - 09:38 AM
Cats at Work 10 Jul 06 - 10:49 AM
Cool Beans 10 Jul 06 - 12:00 PM
GUEST,donald 11 Jul 06 - 04:48 AM
Peace 11 Jul 06 - 06:13 AM
Splott Man 11 Jul 06 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,Martello Pete 22 Sep 06 - 04:21 PM
Louie Roy 22 Sep 06 - 05:07 PM
GUEST 01 Oct 06 - 10:37 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 01 Oct 06 - 11:20 PM
GUEST,River 16 Jun 10 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,Jonathan Hewlett 22 Oct 10 - 09:10 AM
Geoff the Duck 22 Oct 10 - 03:09 PM
GUEST,max the flute 30 Nov 11 - 06:41 PM
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Subject: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Paul Castle
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 05:00 AM

Doing some research into the origins of this classic fiddle
tune, written in the thirties by Ervin T. Rouse and Chubby
Wise, I've been told (by more than one source) that
"the melody was based on an older Irish song".

Any ideas?

Although I've not read it yet, I am aware that there is
a book called 'Orange Blossom Boys: The Untold Story
of Ervin T Rouse, Chubby Wise and the World's Most
Famous Fiddle Tune' by Randy Noles.

Anyone know if there is any reference to this in the book?

Paul Castle
The Rosinators


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: masato sakurai
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 05:46 AM

I haven't heard of the Irish connection. This is from The Fiddler's Companion:

Result of search for "Orange Blossom Special"
ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL. Bluegrass, Breakdown. USA. A Major. Standard. AAB + vamp. "One of the most popular fiddle tunes in modern history" (C. Wolfe, Devil's Box, Dec. 1982). Composed by Ervin T. Rouse (c. 1938), inspired by the railway train called the Orange Blossom Special's christening and inaugural run (from Miami to New York). Co-authorship is often credited to Florida fiddler Robert Russell "Chubby" Wise (1916-1996), although the copyright is in Rouse's name, supposedly due to Wise's assertion that 'there was no money in fiddle tunes and that Rouse could copyright it himself, for all the good it would do' (Wise drove a cab at the time). Wise himself maintained that he and Rouse were at the Jacksonville Seaboard Railroad Station when the train came through on its maiden run from Miami. Rouse suggested that they write a tune and Chubby agreed. The two went back to Wise's house and wrote the piece in forty-five minutes, while his wife cooked them breakfast. The tune was recorded by Ervin and his brother Gordon in New York in June, 1939, but the tune did not become a hit until Bill Monroe's recording of it in 1942 (with Art Wooten on fiddle). The first recording, however, appears to be that of Tommy Magness', who recorded "Orange Blossom Special" with Roy Hall's group in 1938. It was unissued at the time, says Jim Nelson, perhaps to avoid legal problems with Rouse and his record company, RCA Victor. He thinks Magness probably learned the tune directly from Rouse, but that he definately taught it to Wooten. Magness is credited with popularizing the melody and introducing the famous double-shuffle into the tune. There are persistent rumours that Wise or Magness lost their rights to "Orange Blossom Special" in a poker game. Source for notated version: Blaine Sprouse (Brody). Brody (Fiddler's Fakebook), 1983; pg. 210. Rounder 0117, "Blaine Sprouse." RCA Camden CAL-719, Bill Monroe- "The Father of Bluegrass Music." Mercury SRM 1-1058, Vasser Clements- "Superbow." Mercury SRW 16261, The Stanley Brothers- "Instrumentals Country Styfle." United Artists 9801, "Will The Circle Be Unbroken" (various artists). Stoneway 104, Chubby Wise- "Chubby Wise and His Fiddle." Gusto 104, Scotty Stoneman- "30 Fiddler's Greatest Hits." Starday SLP 268, Curly Fox (1963). Caney Mountain Records CLP 228, Lonnie Robertson (Mo.) - "Fiddle Favorites," c. 1971-72.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 12:57 PM

Orange Blossom Special was an English blue grass/Folk group of the late sixties and early seventies.Any one else remember them?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 06:54 PM

I've tried JC before for a midi of OBS, but with no luck. Anyone got another midi source?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: masato sakurai
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 08:13 PM

There're several midi sites. See Google's search results of "Orange Blossom Special: midi".
~Masato


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Gary T
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 11:53 PM

From the RCA album "60 Years of Country Music":

A novelty fiddle instrumental originally known as "South Florida Blues," the song was re-titled in the mid-1930s by the manager of the Rouse Brothers in conjunction with the christening of the Seaboard Railroad's New York-to-Miami train called the "Orange Blossom Special." Ervin Rouse later added lyrics to the tune for a 1939 Rouse Brothers recording.
__________

After reading this, and then listening to Johnny Cash's vocal rendition, I found the title "South Florida Blues" quite fitting.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 11:11 PM

Long Steel Rail – The Railroad in American Folksong, Norm Cohen, University of Illinois Press, Urbana, 1981, p.453-458.





Have patience this WILL connect into "Orange Blossom" but, the yodel part…. (which was stumbled upon) ties in slightly.... to the yodel thread currently posted, so here are some excerpts….(have we considered adopting an APA or MLA style for references – or do we continue – catch as catch-can ….to make it folksy?)





"As for Rodger's distinctive yodel, he was not the first country singer to yodel on record, that honor fell to Riley Puckett three years before Rodgers made his first recording. But Rodger's melding of the twelve-bar blues format with the yodeling chorus was probably original – at least, original on record (Jimmie Rodgers, "Brakeman's Blues" recorded Feb. 14, 1928 (Victor master 41738); released on Victor 21291; reissued on RCA Victor LPM 2112; Jimmie the Kid. An almost identical stanza appears in Sam McGee, "Railroad Blues," Champion S16804, Decca 5348; reissued on County 511: A Collection of Mountain Blues. And to Ralph Peer, the astute talent scout, publisher, and manager who "found" Rodgers and helped build him up, goes the credit for originating the term blue yodel as he had earlier first applied the terms hillbilly and race to the phonograph business."



p. 454 "….In their now-classic bluegrass instrumental, "Orange Blossom Special" the Rouse Brothers change this couplet:

Look-a-yonder comin', comin' down the railroad track,

Look-a yonder comin', a comin' down the rail road track;

It's the Orange Blossom Special, it's a-bringin' my baby back."



p. 455 "Rouse Brothers, "Orange Blossom Special," recorded June 16, 1939 (RCA Victor master BS-037358), in New York City; released on RCA Bluebird B-8218; reissued on RCA Victor LPV-532; The Railraod in Folksong. For an account of how this piece was composed, based on the recollections of fiddler Chubby Wise, who was present at the time, see Ivan M. Tribe, "Chubby Wise: One of the Original Bluegrass Fiddlers," Bluegrass Unlimited, 11 (Feb., 1977), 10-12. Wise recalled that he and Ervin Rouse put together the instrumental part of the composition one evening after seeing the Seaboard Air Line's new streamliner, the Orange Blossom Special, Later, Ervin and his brother Jack added lyrics and copyrighted the song."



Sincerely,

Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 11:16 PM

OK...LaughKat --- you have the night shift and now you to work tonight....Here is another try-

Long Steel Rail – The Railroad in American Folksong, Norm Cohen, University of Illinois Press, Urbana, 1981, p.453-458.

Have patience this WILL connect into "Orange Blossom" but, the yodel part…. (which was stumbled upon) ties in slightly, to the other thread currently posted, so here are some excerpts….(have we considered adopting an APA or MLA style for references – or do we continue – catch as catch-can ….to make it folksy?)

"As for Rodger's distinctive yodel, he was not the first country singer to yodel on record, that honor fell to Riley Puckett three years before Rodgers made his first recording. But Rodger's melding of the twelve-bar blues format with the yodeling chorus was probably original – at least, original on record (Jimmie Rodgers, "Brakeman's Blues" recorded Feb. 14, 1928 (Victor master 41738); released on Victor 21291; reissued on RCA Victor LPM 2112; Jimmie the Kid. An almost identical stanza appears in Sam McGee, "Railroad Blues," Champion S16804, Decca 5348; reissued on County 511: A Collection of Mountain Blues. And to Ralph Peer, the astute talent scout, publisher, and manager who "found" Rodgers and helped build him up, goes the credit for originating the term blue yodel as he had earlier first applied the terms hillbilly and race to the phonograph business."

p. 454 "….In their now-classic bluegrass instrumental, "Orange Blossom Special" the Rouse Brothers change this couplet:

Look-a-yonder comin', comin' down the railroad track,
Look-a yonder comin', a comin' down the rail road track;
It's the Orange Blossom Special, it's a-bringin' my baby back."

p. 455 "Rouse Brothers, "Orange Blossom Special," recorded June 16, 1939 (RCA Victor master BS-037358), in New York City; released on RCA Bluebird B-8218; reissued on RCA Victor LPV-532; The Railraod in Folksong. For an account of how this piece was composed, based on the recollections of fiddler Chubby Wise, who was present at the time, see Ivan M. Tribe, "Chubby Wise: One of the Original Bluegrass Fiddlers," Bluegrass Unlimited, 11 (Feb., 1977), 10-12. Wise recalled that he and Ervin Rouse put together the instrumental part of the composition one evening after seeing the Seaboard Air Line's new streamliner, the Orange Blossom Special, Later, Ervin and his brother Jack added lyrics and copyrighted the song."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 08:34 AM

,.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 09:37 AM

Now granted, Scotty Stoneman is my favourite American fiddler, and his version of "...Blossom.." is great fun, but if you wanna hear a virtuoso performance of the tune, that in my opinion has never been matched, hunt down "Graham Townsend from (somewhere in) Vermont". It's a bit tasteless, too fast by half, and has an ending that needs to be heard to be believed. To really cloud the waters, Graham talks over the first minute of the tune, thanking people for coming to the show and flogging his albums.

If you can find this album, you'll enjoy it (even with all the excesses)

Rick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,Donald
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:12 AM

Have any of you guys got the ABC for this fiddle tune? I can't find it anywhere

Any help greatly appreciated - ta


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: clueless don
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 09:38 AM

Being something of a "traditional music Philistine", I became familiar with this tune through the recording by the (rock?) group "Seatrain" (or was it "Sea Train"?). I could stand to hear some more traditional recordings of it, but the Seatrain version will always be my reference version.

Don


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Cats at Work
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 10:49 AM

Leadfingers - My English Teacher was the fiddle player of the Orange Blossom Special band!! I was 11 at the time! His name was Roger Churchyard and I remember seeing them on Opportunity Knocks. He left teaching to become a full time musician.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Cool Beans
Date: 10 Jul 06 - 12:00 PM

Seatrain's fiddler was the estimable Richard Greene.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,donald
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 04:48 AM

........ but has anyone got the ABC for this tune? (please?!)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Peace
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 06:13 AM

One of the most bizarre stories in all of popular music is the history of "Orange Blossom Special," arguably the century's best-known fiddle tune. The man credited with its ownership, Ervin T. Rouse, endured tragedy, alcoholism and mental illness. He spent his last years fiddling for tips in isolated taverns at the edge of the Florida Everglades, and died all but unknown. The man who claimed co-ownership, Chubby Wise, achieved fame as the seminal fiddler of the bluegrass genre, but struggled to overcome personal demons and to heal the scars of childhood abandonment and abuse. This fascinating book uncovers how their legacies are forever linked with the legendary diesel streamliner which inspired the tune six decades ago, as it roared through American history, bringing wonder and hope to every stop. Includes a Collector's CD of rare, unreleased original recordings of "Orange Blossom Special" by Bluegrass Etc., Byron Berline, Dennis Caplinger, Buddy Emmons, John Henry Gates, The Hellcasters, Gary Morse, Benny Martin and Mike Stevens. Also features the original Rouse Brothers recording from 1939, a live performance by Chubby Wise, and six vintage bonus tracks.

Randy Noles is a publisher of city/regional magazines in Florida. During his 25-year career, he has won awards for investigative reporting, feature writing and commentary. Born in Tuscaloosa, AL, he has lived in Orlando since 1967. He is married and has two children.

"If you go back and listen to Ervin and Gordon Rouse's original 1939 recording, it's easy to hear 'Orange Blossom Special''s beauty, elegance and power. It bonds the romance of rambling around on trains with the mystique of a far-away land known as Florida. It is pure country music; it is pure Americana."

from the foreword by Marty Stuart


(Not the ABC notation. Sorry.)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Splott Man
Date: 11 Jul 06 - 07:01 AM

The Swedish pop instrumental group The Spotnicks recorded Orange Blossom Special in the 60's. A lot more twang than their contemporaries, The Shadows.

Incidentally, Cats & Leadfingers, I knew the Orange Blossom Sound from their days of running Dorking Folk Club. I recently bumped into their subsequent fiddler Mike French at Tredegar House Festival, still playing strong. Bassist Mike Artes is playing with the Betty Daviles(?) Band in Surrey.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,Martello Pete
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 04:21 PM

Thanks for all the information about "Orange Blossom Special".
But has anyone heard a recording by a group of Guitar players?

Separate Question: What is a 12 String Guitar please?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Louie Roy
Date: 22 Sep 06 - 05:07 PM

Guest Donald if you play by ear I can send you an MP3 of the Orange Blossom Special if that would help.I'll need your email address you can PM me with it Louie Roy


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 10:37 PM

Twelve string guitars are 6 string guitars that the strings are paired up with additional strings.
The three thicker strings are each paired with a string that is tuned one octive higher.
The three thinner strings are paired with duplicate tuned strings.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 01 Oct 06 - 11:20 PM

Currently - on acoustic keyboards (live) I am using the "clickity-clack" bass progression of "OBS" with melody line and verse of "Wabash Canon Ball"

Deffinate 110 percent HIT! Thankyou, Dick, Susan and Max.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,River
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 05:57 PM

My father was Chubby Wise's mentor. Together they played their fiddles whenever Chubby came to town. In later life, Chubby called on my brother often and they, too played 'Orange Blossom Special'. I am looking for a free download of Chubby's version to include in a family reunion and have had no luck. Hopefully, someone reading this can help!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,Jonathan Hewlett
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 09:10 AM

You can hear the original recording of the song in 1939 by the Rouse Bros on the LP, The Railroad in Folksong. I have the record, and that song is AWESOME!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 03:09 PM

Guest,River - Found this on YouTube.
Any use?
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Orange Blossom Special
From: GUEST,max the flute
Date: 30 Nov 11 - 06:41 PM

Hi,
Would anyone out there know if this tune is still in copyright, or if it's now in the public domain?
Cheers
max


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