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Choosing a Child Ballad for Study

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GUEST,Russ 24 Oct 02 - 11:09 AM
boldreynard 24 Oct 02 - 09:58 AM
Hrothgar 24 Oct 02 - 05:20 AM
GUEST 23 Oct 02 - 08:47 PM
Joe Offer 23 Oct 02 - 08:33 PM
Willie-O 23 Oct 02 - 08:08 PM
GUEST 23 Oct 02 - 07:47 PM
GUEST 23 Oct 02 - 07:33 PM
Susan of DT 23 Oct 02 - 07:29 PM
GUEST 23 Oct 02 - 07:19 PM
Malcolm Douglas 23 Oct 02 - 07:11 PM
GUEST,julia 23 Oct 02 - 04:41 PM
GUEST 23 Oct 02 - 04:30 PM
Don Firth 23 Oct 02 - 02:24 PM
sharyn 23 Oct 02 - 01:55 PM
EBarnacle1 23 Oct 02 - 01:55 PM
Malcolm Douglas 23 Oct 02 - 01:28 PM
MMario 23 Oct 02 - 01:13 PM
Sorcha 23 Oct 02 - 12:54 PM
Sorcha 23 Oct 02 - 12:53 PM
Wolfgang 23 Oct 02 - 12:50 PM
IanC 23 Oct 02 - 12:49 PM
IanC 23 Oct 02 - 12:46 PM
Sorcha 23 Oct 02 - 12:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 11:09 AM

Consider Matty Groves (Little Musgrave, etc.). I am fascinated by the different "takes" on the basic story that the different versions give. Sort of like Kurosawa's Rashomon. In some versions Matty is the seducer, in some the Lady. In some versions it's love, in some it's lust. In some versions the cuckolded husband cannot wait to get his hands on Matty, in some he is oddly reluctant.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: boldreynard
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 09:58 AM

I am partial to "Bonnie James Campbell" (Child 210: also Bonnie George Campbell, James Campbell, and many other names I'm sure) for all it leaves unsaid.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Hrothgar
Date: 24 Oct 02 - 05:20 AM

Why not start at Number 1 - "Riddles Wisely Expounded?"

Forty million different versions, mythology, folklore, symbolism - the works.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 08:47 PM

Hey, that child_# is great! Wish I had known that before. Does that work with anything else? Have to try it out.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 08:33 PM

Our Song Origins & Info list in QuickLinks will give you a good place to start.
If you put child_# (include the underline) in our search box, you'll pull up all the Child Ballads we have (or click here).
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Willie-O
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 08:08 PM

I recommend "The Battle of Harlaw". Precisely because you can read it right off the page, and it rocks! And the lyrics are relatively easy to interpret, and tell a great ironic tale. (One brother says to the other, "There's HOW many thoosand Hielandmen? Hold on, I think we should just wait under this tree for awhile, I seem to have forgotten me armour. I'll just send for it...")

W-O


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 07:47 PM

?? Child # 12 brought up nothing. Child 12 brought up six. child 12 (no caps) brought up 7.

One I pointed out, "The Wee Little Croodlin' Doo," is there.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 07:33 PM

I just remembered a book that has some decent interpretations of the balllads too. Try:

Ballads into Books: The Legacies of Francis James Child, ed. Tom Cheesman and Sigrid Rieuwerts.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Susan of DT
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 07:29 PM

Once you know Lord Randal is Child #12, you can search for that and get the 7 variants in the DT. This new supersearch seems to have messed up the ability to search just for #12 - yielded lots of strange stuff - but Child #12 generated the right list. So remember if it is over 305, use DT #__ rather than Child #__


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 07:19 PM

Try a search through Sur La Lune Fairy Tale Pages.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 07:11 PM

For a Scottish set of Randal, current among children in the early 20th century, see   Willie Doo   at   http://www.folkinfo.org/forum.asp


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: GUEST,julia
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 04:41 PM

Where are you taking that class? What kind of a class is it? Wish it were my assignment...


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 04:30 PM

"Lord Randal" - "Billy Boy" reminds me of a Scottish-English version called "The Wee Little Croodlin' Doo which is in Branson. That name always made me laugh. Also don't forget the many American versions of Lord Randal. And Canadian. Malcolm Douglas pointed out versions in the Max Hunter Collection, but Lomax, Randolph, etc., etc. have more.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 02:24 PM

Don't forget that one of the variants of Lord Randal is the comic song Billy Boy. Don't think so? Read the lyrics of both songs side by side and it becomes obvious.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: sharyn
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 01:55 PM

I would say listen to some and pick one you like -- don't pick it by reading: listen until you hear a ballad that haunts you, then read Child's notes about it, ask other people for versions of it (ask here), see where it leads you. Maybe there is one you heard in childhood -- e.g. "The Cherry Tree Carol" or "Barbara Allen." Or maybe you have a favorite singer (Dick Gaughan, Kate Rusby, June Tabor): investigate which ballads they sing until one grabs you. It should be fun.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 01:55 PM

I've long been a fan of Sir Patrick Spens. The little bit they teach in school tells almost none of the tale shown in the various versions of Child, McKenzie, etc.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 01:28 PM

You want to lose the "htt" from that link, Sorcha!

Lord Randall

The second form Ian mentioned is usually called Henry my Son. The third is an unusual example, not found anywhere else, so it might not suit the plan. You might want to consider instead the Music Hall parody Green and Yeller, which has itself entered tradition. There's a set in the DT here, though Pete Seeger has (wrongly, I think) given it the title Henry my Son.

For some fairly recent examples from tradition in the USA, see The Max Hunter Folk Song Collection:

Lord Randall
Jimmy Randolph
Sweet Angia


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: MMario
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 01:13 PM

The there's the Henry Martin/Andrew Barton series - which according to some notes I was reading recently shows a nice progression from a political song about actual events to a semi-generic pirate/privateeer song


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:54 PM

Hmm. Wonder why that didn't work? Anyway, use the alpha index and you'll find it.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:53 PM

Good suggestion; Lord Randal and it's Child #12. And don't forget the Contemplator site.


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:50 PM

DT spells Lord Randal

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: IanC
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:49 PM

Amazing! "Lord Randall" doesn't bring up a version on DT!!!


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Subject: RE: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: IanC
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:46 PM

Could I suggest Lord Randall ... there are lots of them with signinficant variant groups (always makes it easy to study) and this is one.

Look up:

Lord Randall
Henry my child
The Wild Wild Berry

That should give you a start.

:-)


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Subject: Choosing a Child Ballad for Study
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:40 PM

Found this buried in the Child Ballad site, thought it might get more attention with a thread of its own......

Subject: RE: Child Ballad site
From: GUEST,TracyFSU - PM
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 12:35 PM

For my Lit.380 course, I need to choose a CHild Ballad, play it for the class, then explain what the ballad means. I'm having a hard time choosing 1, being he has so many. Also, my knowledge on the subject in limited. Any suggestions? It would be greatly appreciated.


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