Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun

Subject: Carraig Donn
From: Alice
Date: 06 Jun 98 - 08:50 PM

Carraig Donn

When I learned this song, it was from listening to Mary O'Hara's recording. On the record album jacket notes, it states that it was written by Denny Lane. I have not been able to find the printed lyrics. Can any of you in Ireland who were so helpful with the Spancilhill lyrics tell me how to correctly spell and pronounce the place name and river name in the song Carraig Donn? Thanks.

Alice in Montana

Subject: Lyr Add: CARRIGDHOUN^^
From: Frank McGrath
Date: 06 Jun 98 - 09:51 PM

Hello Alice,
It's nice to write to you again. I watch out for your contributions eagerly. Here is for Carrigdhoun you.

Carrigdhoun

The heath was green on Carrigdhoun
Bright shone the sun o'er Ard-na-Lee
The dark green trees bent trembling down
To kiss the slumbering Own na Buidhe
That happy day t'was but last May
'Tis like a dream to me
When Donal swore, aye o'er and o'er
We'd part no more a stór mo chroidhe

On Carrigdhoun the heath is brown
The clouds are dark o'er Ard-na-Lee
And many a stream comes rushing down
To swell the angry Owen na Buidhe
The moaning blast is sweeping past
Through many a leafless tree
And I'm alone, for he is gone
My hawk has flown, ochone mo chroidhe

Soft April showers and bright May flowers
Will bring the summer back again
But will they bring me back the hours
I spent with my brave Donal then
There's but a chance - he's gone to France
To wear the Fleur-de-Lis
But I'll follow you, my Donal Dhu
For still I'm true to you mo chroidhe.

The song was originally called "The Lament of the Irish Maiden" and was written by Denny Lane from Cork. It is a political song telling of the flight from Ireland of Sarsfield's "Wild Geese" in 1691. The air for Carrigdhoun was the inspiration for the music to the Percy French song "The Mountains of Mourne".

Best Regards
Frank McGrath
Nenagh Singers Circle

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Alice
Date: 07 Jun 98 - 03:32 PM

Thanks, Frank. This is a great companion song to Jackets Green. I had seen it spelled Carrigdhoun on a different recording, but it is spelled Carriag Donn on Mary O'Hara's. I got all the words from listening, just as you posted them, but was a little unsure of those names. Thanks so much. If you know of a source for notation, I need to be able to give the music to my accompanist. Maybe someone has it under the other title.. The Lament Of The Irish Maiden. Thanks again.

Alice in Montana (where it has been too cold lately)

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Fiolar
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 05:21 AM

A bit late in posting this but I have only just found the thread. Accrording to my information it was written by Ellen Mary Patrick Downing (1828 - 1869).The wording of the version I have is just a little different. For instance the first verse is as follows: "On Carrigdhoun the heath is brown, The clouds are dark o'er Ardnalee, And many a stream comes rushing down To swell the angry Ownabwee." etc

Also in both verses the "heath is brown."

Incidentally Carrigdhoun is situated west of Cork City in Ireland. Mike

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 12:17 PM

Thanks, Fiolar, the lyrics the way Mary O'Hara recorded it, the first two verses Frank typed were transposed... it starts with the "heath was brown" verse, then the "heath was green" verse comes next. By the way, I did get the sheet music back in '98 from a generous Mudcatter. The first verse being the maiden's present sad state in the cold season with brown heath, then the second verse remembering a happier past in warmer weather with green heath and trees makes sense to me in the storytelling of the song. I wonder why the confusion now of the author's name?

My, this is an old thread. Feels like a flashback to my past!

Alice

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 03 Jun 00 - 03:48 PM

The Mc Peakes also released a version of it on their LP published in the 1960's. Annraoi

Subject: Tune Add: CARRIGDHOUN
From: OldPossum
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 02:36 PM

Just adding the ABC for the tune, so that it can be harvested for the Great Tune Hunt:

X:9
T:Carrigdhoun
B:Folksongs and Ballads Popular in Ireland, vol. 2, ed. John Loesberg, Ossian 1980
N:filename[ CARRIGDH
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:F
C | C A A3 G | G F F3 F | E>D (C D) (E F) |
w: The heath was green on Car-rig Dhoun, bright shone the sun_ o'-er
G>F F3 C | C A A3 G | G F F3 F |
w: Ard-na-lee; The dark green trees bent trem-bling down to
E>D (C D) E F | G>F F3 C | C B B3 B |
w: kiss the slum_-be-ring Own na Buidhe, That hap-py day T'was
B A A3 G | F A c2 (B A) | (A2 G2) z1 C | C A A3 G |
w: but last May, T'is like a dream to_ me_ When Do-nal swore, aye
G F F3 F | E>D (C D) (E F) | G>F F3 ||
w: o'er and o'er, We'd part no more_ a_ stór mo chroidhe.

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Carly
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 11:12 PM

Thank you for bringing this thread back up. I learned Carrigdhoun from Alan Mackall in about 1975; I assume he got it from the Mc Peakes, but since Alan died ten years later, I'll never know. But I never saw the song in print, and although I was pretty clear on the pronunciation, I had no idea how to spell the placenames. I also sing the brown heath verse first, then the green, and exactly the words provided by Frank McGrath.

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Fiolar
Date: 05 Sep 03 - 08:42 AM

I am a bit late in correcting my wrong thinking that the heath was brown in both verses, but of course Alice is quite correct. Incidentally, Sean Cannon has also recorded it.

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 05 Sep 03 - 12:31 PM

Then there's Horslips' Dearg Doom - but that's hors of a different colour

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Big Tim
Date: 06 Sep 03 - 05:38 AM

According to my info the song was written by Denny Lane (1818-95)from Cork and first published in the "Nation" on 15 February 1845. It was then called "Lament of the Irish Maiden: A Brigade Ballad", shortened to "Carrigdhoun". When Thomas Davis, the "Nation's" editor, saw it he is said to have asked "Why don't you write more songs"?

Lane was a Young Irelander and was jailed at the time of the 1848 Revolt. Later he became a successful businessman.

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Fiolar
Date: 06 Sep 03 - 10:47 AM

Funny that. Ellen Downing also wrote for "The Nation." I don't suppose we'll ever know for certain who wrote it now as there are supporters for both as the author. Whoever wrote it anyway, it's a beautiful number.

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Big Tim
Date: 06 Sep 03 - 02:55 PM

Who was Ellen Downing? Surely the answer is in the files of the "Nation"? It's difficult to access them from foreign parts!

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 02:38 AM

Mary Ellen Downing, born 19 March 1828, died 27 January 1869. Born in Cork. Name in religion: Sister Mary Alphonsus.

"In her mid teens, she became an avid reader of the 'Nation', with a particular fondness for the ballads and lyrics contained therein...her first poem appeared on 10 May 1845". (From: "A Dictionary of Nineteenth-Century Irish Women Poets" by Anne Ulry Colman,Kenny Bookshop, Galway, 1996.

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Fiolar
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 05:46 AM

Big Tim: I presume you have answered your own query.

Subject: RE: Carraig Donn
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 07:01 AM

Yes, Fiolar: I forgot that I had Colman's book! IF the song was in fact published on 15 Feb 1845 (source: Oxford Companion to Irish Literature) and Colman is accurate about the date of Downing's first published poem, 10 May 1845, surely it would rule out Downing as the writer of Carrighdoun?

(According to Colman, Downing, an extremely shy girl, "singularly pretty and attractive", was romantically involved with a young man called Brennan, who got transported for political activities. She stopped writing for the "Nation" in 1847 after the departure of Mitchel: Gavan Duffy and Smith O'Brien being too moderate. Thereafter her work appeared in [Mitchel's] "United Irishman" and assumed a more radical tone. The arrest and transportation of Mitchel, and the 1848 Revolt, created such a strain that Ellen's health was broken. She then suffered intermittently from paralysis until the time of her death - though her mind was always clear. An untitled poem beginning, "Deep in the shadow of my room" records her physical and mental state shortly before her death).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: OldPossum
Date: 08 Sep 03 - 02:58 PM

Thanks for all the comments. If anyone comes across information about who composed the melody, that would be great as well. It doesn't quite have the "feel" of a traditional tune, in my view.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: Fiolar
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 10:29 AM

Big Tim: I across this poem by her entitled "Were I But His Own Wife" and here is the first verse.
"WERE I but his own wife, to guard and to guide him,
'T is little of sorrow should fall on my dear;
I 'd chant my low love-verses, stealing beside him,
So faint and so tender his heart would but hear;
I 'd pull the wild blossoms from valley and highland,
And there at his feet I would lay them all down;
I 'd sing him the songs of our poor stricken island,
Till her heart was on fire with a love like my own."

The reason I posted it is, that it seems to me reading through it, that there is much the same swing to it as in Carraig Donn. I must do a bit more research to try and ascertain who in fact did write Carraig Donn.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 12:18 PM

That's a nice verse. Fiolar: what's your source for Downing as author? Of course Downing may have seen the song in the Nation in February, read it, and became influenced by it, consciously or sub-consciously.                                                         

I think I have exhausted all my resources on authorship. More research tho would be interesting: it would be nice to finally settle with certainty authorship of a classic Irish song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 04:01 PM

Found some more. This from a 1996 book called "Irish Ballads", various authors, published by Gill & Macmillan. The chapter in the book on "Caggigdhoun" was written by John A. Murphy, Emeritus Prof. of History, University College, Cork.

The river Owenabue [Owenboy - on OS maps]runs into the sea at Crosshaven, just south of Cork City. Carrigdhoun and Ardnalee are the "author's inventions, though they may correspond to particular features of the landscape". Denny Lane, whom Prof. Murphy presumes to be the writer, was once incarcerated in Cork Gaol, presumably for political activity. An obit. described his works as "entirely fugutive" (ephemeral). "What a rich irony! If he had written a shelf of scholarly tomes, he would not be as well, and certainly not as fondly, remembered".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: Fiolar
Date: 10 Sep 03 - 06:09 AM

I tried Google on the off chance that there would be some info on the song. Using the full name - Ellen Mary Patrick Downing I found a lot of interesting stuff there. I'll ask my brother who lives in Ireland to see if he can get some information on the song. More later - hopefully.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: Fiolar
Date: 10 Sep 03 - 06:41 AM

I think that some of the difficulty associated with trying to identify an author for much of the songs and poems is that many were written under a pen name. The editors may have known who the author was but I don't know how many other people did.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 04:38 PM

ach nach bhfuil gaelige ar bith ar an amhran seo darab ainm carraig dhonn? Seamus an fhia rua

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: MartinRyan
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 04:59 PM

Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil - ach amháin go bhfuil seans go raibh an fonn á úsáid cheana féin, ar ndóigh. Níor chualas a leithéid riamh, áfach.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: MartinRyan
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 05:57 PM

BigTim

Colm O'Lochlainn's "Songwriters of Ireland" attributes it to Denny Lane and makes no mention of Downing.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: MartinRyan
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 05:59 PM

... as does Welch's "Oxford Concise Companion to Irish Literature".

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: MartinRyan
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 06:22 PM

OK. I've had a look in several of the 19C. collections which include songs from both Lane and Downing. Carrig Dhoun is consistently ascribed to Lane.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 09:11 AM

Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil - ach amháin go bhfuil seans go raibh an fonn á úsáid cheana féin, ar ndóigh. Níor chualas a leithéid riamh, áfach.
I wish I'd said that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: MartinRyan
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 09:33 AM

Jim

Only being polite to our Irish-speaking GUEST! He enquired as to whether there was a set of Irish words to the song. In a nutshell, I said there wasn't, as far as I know!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: GUEST,Se/smus cladhartha as Ceanada
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 01:16 PM

I nanam De/ caithfidh se/ go bhfuil an Ghaeilge (ce/ad teanga na ti/re) ar an amhra/n alainn seo ba chuma gur aistriu/cha/n e/
Se/smus cladhartha as Ceanada

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 07:02 PM

A Shéamus,

Níor chualas leagan Gaeilge riamh - ná trácht ar a leithéid.

Beir bua.

Subject: Lyr Add: LAMENT OF THE IRISH MAIDEN (Denny Lane)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 10:59 PM

From The Ballad Poetry of Ireland, 4th ed., edited by Charles Gavan Duffy, 1845.

LAMENT OF THE IRISH MAIDEN.
A BRIGADE BALLAD.
BY DENNY LANE.

AIR—"The Foggy Dew."

ON Carrigdhoun the heath is brown,
The clouds are dark o'er Ardnalia,
And many a stream comes rushing down
To swell the angry Ownabwee;
The moaning blast is sweeping fast
Thro' many a leafless tree,
And I'm alone, for he is gone,
My hawk has flown, ochone machree.

The heath was green on Carrigdhoun,
Bright shone the sun on Ardnalia,
The dark green trees bent trembling down
To kiss the slumb'ring Ownabwee;
That happy day, 'twas but last May,
'Tis like a dream to me,
When Doinnall swore, ay, o'er and o'er,
We'd part no more, oh stor machree.

Soft April show'rs and bright May flow'rs
Will bring the summer back again,
But will they bring me back the hours
I spent with my brave Doinnall then.
'Tis but a chance, for he's gone to France
To wear the fleur de lis;
But I'll follow you, ma Doinnall dhu,
For still I'm true to you, machree.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

This song is now on You Tube sung by Mary O`Hara, lorgain2.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 12:46 PM

The tune is a variant of 'The Mountains of Mourne", or rather, the 'Mountains of Mourne' is a variant of this tune, I believe.

Back in the '60's I sang in a local GAA group in Scor Seachto, and this was one of our best received songs.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:08 PM

-- both being versions of "The Bendemeer Stream"

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: GUEST,machree01
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:32 PM

Mary O'Hara singing Carraigdonnn
CARRIGDHOUN
(Denny Lane)

         http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GeW75wE-_tg

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 10:37 AM

Seamus, and you are still entertaning the public, representing the Rossas   in that Scor?.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 09 - 03:52 PM

Ar Charraig Donn is fionn an fraoch,
'S is dorcha an speir os cionn Ard na Laoigh,
Is iomadh sruth ag si'neadh si'os
Go h-uisce uaigneach na h-Abhna Buidhe;
An gaoth ag caonadh le chuadh caoin,
I measc na gcoillte si'ghe,
Is mise i bpe'in annseo liom fhe'in,
'S mo ghra'dh ar siubhal uaim, Ocho'n mo chroidhe.

Ba glas an fraoch ar Charraig Donn
'S ba geal an ghrian ar Ard na Laoigh,
Na crainn go le'ir ag cromadh si'os,
'S ag po'gadh min-fhliuch na h-Abhna Buidhe;
'S go deo ba mhe'ara(mhe'anar)mo bheatha ann,
Me' fhe'in 's mo Domhnall di'lis,
'S gur dubhairt se' liom nach scarfadh sinn
Ni'os mo' 'sa tsaoghal seo, Ocho'n mo chroidhe.

Ar Charraig Donn ta' an fraoch ag fa's,
'S an sceach ag sce'ithfeadh ar Ard na Laoigh,
An ghrian geal ag soillsiughadh si'os
Ar e'adan aoibhneach na h-Abhna Buidhe;
Ach domhsa ni' bhfuil ach buairt is bro'n,
Gan radharc mo Dhomhnall di'lis,
Mo le'an indiu gur imthigh thu'(tu'),
Mo mhu'irni'n di'lis, a sto'r mo chroidhe.

Sorry about the apostrophes instead of accents. This was in the album "Irish Traditional Songs" by Deirdre Flynn.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 May 09 - 04:38 PM

Thanks for that version as gaeilge, GUEST? Any idea who did the translation - and when?

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:32 PM

I've no idea, but it seems to be of northern provenance. I am confused about " ag caonadh le chuadh caoin". I'd guess that "caonadh" should be "caoineadh". "Cuadh" should probably be "cuach" for "sigh". I have no expertise. The reason I point to an Ulster translator is "mheura" for "mhe'anar". I altered some of the text because there seemed to be several errors. I think this record album dates back to the 50's. I've had a copy from sometime in the 1960's.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:56 PM

Yes - my guess was for a northern origin, OK. The spelling seems quite old-fashioned i.e. pre-caighdeán. I'll see what I can find out.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 09 - 12:14 PM

P.S.-Dinneen has "cuadha'n" for "moan". "Ag caoineadh le chuadha'n caoin" seems to make sense.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: domo
Date: 30 May 09 - 06:25 PM

This song was a great favourite of Kathleen Behan, mother of Brendan and Dominic. Kathleen finally recorded it in 1978, her only L/P, at the ripe old age of 91. On May 27th (last week) the Cle Club had a special tribute to the Behan family called "Spillin' the Behans", and Niamh Parsons sang a lovely version of it, albeit at short notice. She hopes to record it sometime, with her sister singing harmonies. It was a favourite of her Dad's, which they learned as kids from the singing of Kathleen, You might try this link for a video clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?V=VWSop_JMg&A .
Martin, you missed a great night!
                                     Domo

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: Alice
Date: 31 May 09 - 12:39 AM

It warms my heart to see this old thread again. Nice old times in Mudcat.

Alice

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:06 AM

PPS: I guess "cuadh" is just a variant of "caoi", much like "saoi/suadh" or "smaoinim/smuainim". Archbishop McHale translated a lot of songs. I don't know whether this one fits the time frame or not.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: MartinRyan
Date: 01 Jun 09 - 08:29 AM

GUEST

Initially, my guess was that it might be a fairly recent translation - sort of thing that turns up in songbooks for Irish Courses etc. But your mention of McHale remided me of an tAth Breathnach and his work - might well be that vintage alright. I'll have a look.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 08:03 PM

The Irish translation is by Séamus Ua Creag (J P Craig), 1863–1934, who came from near Glenties in Donegal. It's on pp 62–3 of his book "Ór-Sgeul an Chreidimh" (Derry, 1911), among several other translations. Craig also wrote original songs, among the best known being "Cruacha glas' na h-Éireann", "Tá gleann beag ró-aoibhinn i n-Éirinn" (both also in that book), and I think it was he who wrote "Ní fheicfear níos mó thú, a mhúirnín".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 08:37 PM

GRMA

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 12:04 PM

Gora míle as an eolas san fén leagan Gaeilge.

Many thanks for the info about the Irish version, Guest

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 02:42 PM

I've taken the liberty of updating the spelling of Séamus Ua Craig's translation of Carrigdown. I've made a few minor changes - leaving out a few 'is' to help the flow of the lyrics. I've left the non-standard "Carraig Donn" and "na hAbhna Buí" because they sound better and match the contemporary local pronunciation.

I'm not an Irish scholar, so I welcome any corrections to my revised version.

Carraig Donn

Ar Charraig Donn is fionn an fraoch,
Is dorcha an spéir os cionn Ard na Laoi,
Is iomaí sruth ag síneadh síos
Go huisce uaigneach na h-Abhna Buí;
An gaoth ag caoi le cumha caoin,
I measc na gcoillte sí,
Is mise i bpéin anseo liom fhéin,
Is mo ghrá ar súil uaim, Ochón mo chroí.

Ba ghlas an fraoch ar Charraig Donn
Ba gheal an ghrian ar Ard na Laoi,
Na crainn go léir ag cromadh síos,
Ag pógadh min-fhliuch na hAbhna Buí;
Go deo ba mhéanar mo bheatha ann,
Mé fhéin is mo Dhomhnall dílis,
Is gur dúirt sé liom nach scarfadh sinn
Níos mó sa tsaol seo, Ochón mo chroí.

Ar Charraig Donn tá an fraoch ag fás,
Is an sceach ag sceitheadh ar Ard na Laoi,
An ghrian gheal ag soilsiú síos
Ar éadan aoibhinn na hAbhna Bui;
Ach domhsa ní bhfuil ach buairt is brón,
Gan radharc mo Dhomhnall dil,
Mo léan inniu gur imigh thú(tú),
Mo mhúirnín dílis, a stór mo chroi.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Carraig Donn / Carrigdhoun
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 04 Mar 14 - 02:50 PM

That's my version of Carraig Donn just posted. I neglected to include my signature.

Learaí na Láibe