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BS: Where do we go from here?

khandu 29 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM
GUEST 29 Oct 02 - 08:50 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 29 Oct 02 - 08:52 PM
Alice 29 Oct 02 - 09:04 PM
michaelr 29 Oct 02 - 09:13 PM
kendall 29 Oct 02 - 09:25 PM
GUEST,Big John 29 Oct 02 - 09:32 PM
mg 30 Oct 02 - 12:12 AM
katlaughing 30 Oct 02 - 12:58 AM
Skipjack K8 30 Oct 02 - 05:26 AM
greg stephens 30 Oct 02 - 06:41 AM
GUEST,steve 30 Oct 02 - 08:51 AM
Pied Piper 30 Oct 02 - 08:58 AM
ballpienhammer 30 Oct 02 - 09:20 AM
Ringer 30 Oct 02 - 09:27 AM
Bobert 30 Oct 02 - 10:16 AM
kendall 30 Oct 02 - 11:00 AM
Art Thieme 30 Oct 02 - 12:13 PM
Art Thieme 30 Oct 02 - 12:14 PM
GUEST,Kim C no cookie 30 Oct 02 - 12:45 PM
chip a 30 Oct 02 - 01:04 PM
Clifton53 30 Oct 02 - 05:56 PM
MAG 31 Oct 02 - 01:57 AM
CarolC 31 Oct 02 - 11:34 AM

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Subject: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: khandu
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM

We have had countless threads regarding the state of the US and the world. Some arguments have been very insightful, while others are just inciting. They have been interesting; perhaps they have somewhat changed the views of others. Discussions have been about: Bush, Blair, Saddam, the sniper, Bin Laden, terrorism, Russia, etc..

As it stands now, Bush is the US president and will remain for at least 27 months. It appears that, at some point, US will attack Iraq, with Blair's blessing.

It also appears that individual rights in the USA are becoming lessened with each passing day, as the "Homeland Security" grows.

I realize that I am speaking more about the USA than anywhere else. That is because I am more familiar with it, since I live here. I know each nation is undergoing it's own travail, which effects us all.

It seems the whole world is angry / fearful. All across the world, people are being murdered for "political" reasons. Every catastrophic event is initially suspected to be an act of terrorism.

This has become a sad place.

I consider many of the Mudcatters as my friends. And, in many of the threads here, I see your turmoil; turmoil which I also feel.

Hence, the question; where do we go from here?

What are you going to do?

I am not asking for what you want others to do. I don't want to hear any "bitching" about what others are doing. Most of us know what they are doing. What are you going to do? What can you do?

I honestly do not know what I can do. At this point, All I know is to live each day as it comes, and in the process, try to be here for those who may need me. I feel rather impotent regarding "the big picture".

It is frustrating.

Ken

.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 08:50 PM

Just remember the world will eventually fuck up and pray that you are on the right side when it ends.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 08:52 PM

I am going to wax poetic, as the sun sets slowly in the west. Then, when night has fallen, and the crickets and bullfrogs have begun their earth-first choir consort... I will begin to sing a very special song! :^)

ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Alice
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 09:04 PM

Ken, I gather as much information as I can from all sides of the political debates, and then I vote on election day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 09:13 PM

khandu -- the main thing I'm doing right now is to get information and opinions from other countries, the stuff the media here don't want to tell us about. A good source is WorldLink TV, which airs news from stations around the world, and has been running the excellent French documentary "The Hidden Wars of Desert Storm".

I try to spread that information to people I talk to; I've taped the above-mentioned film and am passing the tape around; and I have a poster in my car window that says "Regime Change Begins At Home -- VOTE".

And when the excrement contacts the rotor, I'll probably leave this country.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: kendall
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 09:25 PM

I will continue to be on the backs of my elected officials. It might not do any good, but, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I also have that poster in my car window.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: GUEST,Big John
Date: 29 Oct 02 - 09:32 PM

We in Ireland earlier this year re-elected a government depite the fact that we know they are hooks, crooks, chancers, liars and half truth merchants. Last month, on the advice of these politicians, we voted for THE NICE (french city) TREATY which will facilitate the expansion of the European Union to include some former eastern block countries. All very nice BUT since OUR politicians are as described above how are we to know that ALL European politicians are any different? And if this is true, are we not merely enlarging the bowl of SHITE? Hey, Michael, Which Country are you leaving? Do you really expect to find it better anywhere else?. Faraway hills are green.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: mg
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 12:12 AM

We stand up as adults and protect the children and weaker among us. We realize that whatever stand we take, others take another in good faith. And whatever stand we take, we could be wrong and unleash either World War III or rounds of terrorism that will lead us there anyway. We will all be in it together..and there is not another generation, not another ethnic group or social class or gender that will do it for us this time.

mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 12:58 AM

Some of us will try not to buy into the fear with which our so-called leaders have been brainwashing the world, taking each day as it comes, being there for ourselves and others as best we can AND include some time, each day, for concentrating on prayer, meditation, and visualising peace with positive outcomes for all concerned. We will also speak in such a way amongst others, for we know the power of the spoken word.

If we do not turn away from the common consciousness and bring our own creative power to bear for the good of the planet, then we will reap exactly what others sow. War and all that it entails is not the only answer for what ails this planet and its people. We have to let other alternatives take root in our hearts and minds, in order for them to grow and bring about change.

Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 05:26 AM

Is it down to the lake I fear?


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 06:41 AM

On a purely personal level, as Khandu asks: for the last three years, my work has brought me into contact with a lot of Muslims, specifically and coincidentally mainly from Iraq and Afghanistan. I take as much time as possible to talk about religion, politics, history, customs, family gossip blah blah blah, and we drink a lot of tea. It's educating me enormously, and my friends as well I hope. Given that a lot of recent troubles seem to stem from the points of friction between Islam and the West, the more we know about how the other half ticks,and the more we drink tea together, the better for all concerned.
   I can't change the world, but I can change me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: GUEST,steve
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:51 AM

skipjack!

aye aye aye aye aye aye etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 08:58 AM

I'll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin
But I'll no my song well before I start singin

It's a hard
it's a hard
it's a hard
it's a hard rains gonna fall


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 09:20 AM

watch, wait, be prepared. I really don't feel Saddam will let his country become a bigger pile of dust. New regime is the answer there.

The sniper deal occurred less than two hours from my home. I was not afraid. There are always going to be a few who refuse to, or cannot cope, with life on earth.I trust the law enforcement experts to handle crimes;they are well trained.
Watch, wait and be prepared. I feel that whatever any nation has to do to preserve peace, maintain the staus quo and defend against terrorism, then it must be done. When those who wish to destroy us are repeatedly turned back, then perhaps, we will regain our every-day
routines- ever vigilant but not paranoid. I believe there will always be war somewhere. Jealousy, greed and power-seekers breed wars. Could I wave a magic wand and be granted ONE wish, it would be for world peace-ETERNAL!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Ringer
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 09:27 AM

Oh, for crying out loud! Have you any idea just how pathetic you all sound? Forty years ago all angst was directed towards "the bomb"; 85 years ago to the trenches; 600 years ago to the Black Death. Folks have always feared something; today is different only in detail, not in degree. If you want to wallow in despair it's as easy now as it ever has been, but it's still not essential. There's a bright side, for heavens sake: try and look on it, do.

Khandu said, "This has become a sad place", but it's not clear where "this" is. If it's America, I can't really comment, but contrast it with England, which is still a wonderful place to live. If it's the world (and it follows a paragraph about the world) then I totally disagree. In either case I see as much evidence for optimism as I do for pessimism, and I go for optimism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 10:16 AM

Listen to Pacifica, stay of the backs of my representatives and attend peace and antiglobalization marchs. The marches are especially good because of the positive, optomistic and loving energy of the folks that also take the time to stand up and be counted. The marches are more than "bitching" but celebrations of pro-humanism and I come away refreshed and more able to deal with the steady diet of negativism that permeates the media.

Hang in there, Ken. Storms never last. A new day is coming. We've just got to get beyond Bush and his gang but *it will happen*.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: kendall
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 11:00 AM

You can't control the wind, but, you CAN adjust your sails.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 12:13 PM

We will go where we will go.

And that depends on the worth of the ideas put forth, the strenghth of the people pushing those ideas, the amount of backup they have from their people and their troops, the quality and quantity of the forces and weaponry all of these can and do wield. Keep in mind, the old saying, "May you live in interesting times."----That was said to be a Chinese "CURSE". In times of peace this curse would be rather benign. In times of strife and war, this curse would probably be more lethal for both the powerful and the powerless.

For the people, mainly, as I see it, it's a matter of luck !

Some decent advice might be, whether you are in charge, or whether you are poweless and blowing in the winds (whether furious cyclonic rotations or mere zephyrs), do what you can to influence the good and avoid the negative. (Note I resist using the current phrase, "the dark side".) Keep in mind that every coin has two sides. You can rarely do a thing that is good totally and has no other negative repercussions. If you go for a walk for your own health, you are still ending the lives of all the insects and other creatures you never know you have crushed while on your headlong rambles. (This cannot explain and negate the inadvertant bombing and killing of the Australians recently in Afghanistan, but it can create a rationale for those kinds of happenings.)

And never forget the theories of chaos...

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 12:14 PM

I think I said what Kendall said. ;-)

And Bob Dylan too.

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 12:45 PM

Like Alice, I try to stay informed, and then Go Vote.

I have already taken advantage of early voting in my state.

Some of the arguments I have seen popping up have to do more with people's opinions than the actual facts at hand... that is to say, someone puts forth an opinion, but not the facts to back it up. Sometimes it seems like there are those who echo what everyone else is saying, without taking the time to actually research the situation. People like to make assumptions, because that doesn't require any work, or any thought.

Give me the facts. I want the facts. When I have the facts, I'll make up my mind.

Trouble is, it's hard to distinguish what's fact and what's propaganda. It's hard to know who's lying and who's telling the truth, because everyone points fingers at one another.

I don't believe everything I'm told. I never have. I remain skeptical until I have The Facts.

So that's my advice to people - don't believe everything you hear. Don't depend on your best pal, or the 6:00 news, to give you all the information you need. You're going to have to look farther than that. Be informed so you can make informed decisions, and have informed opinions.

I'm also going to add: let's not call people names. It makes bad medicine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: chip a
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 01:04 PM

You can't stop the eagles from flying over your head but you can keep them from nesting in your hair.

Chip


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: Clifton53
Date: 30 Oct 02 - 05:56 PM

Oh your goin Alice!!! Your goin!!! Bang, Zoom!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: MAG
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 01:57 AM

You can get the above "Regime change begins at home" downloadable sign from Moveon.org -- they seem good folks as near as I can tell from a distance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Where do we go from here?
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Oct 02 - 11:34 AM

A while back, when he was still blessing us with his presence in this forum and in this world, LR Mole posted this...

Subject: RE: In honor of Phil Ochs
From: LR Mole - PM
Date: 10 Apr 01 - 12:45 PM

...protest they say protest; it is your diamond duty
Ah but in such an ugly time
The only true protest is beauty.---P.O.


Whatever else you decide to do about the state of the world today, khandu, from what I can see in this limited medium, it looks to me like you're at least doing your part to protest ugliness with beauty.


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Mudcat time: 24 September 2:34 AM EDT

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