Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief (Samuel Lover)

Subject: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Alice
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 12:10 AM

I am looking for any corrections and chorus in versions you may know of the following song, which one source I found on the 'net says was written by Samuel Lover.

I have the song on a tape by the Johnsons, sent to me by a Mudcatter (thanks a bunch). I found these lyrics on a google search. The song on tape has a CHORUS of something like
With me fal lala la lala
Me fal lala la lalay
With me fal lala la
Rum diddle dum dow
Me fal lala la lalay.

The only other mention of this song in a Mudcat search was by Phillipa in a thread back in '98 about songs of the young and old.

I would like to know if anyone can confirm that it was written by Samuel Lover and if these lyrics are correct.

The Whistling Thief
Site says this version from an album by Danny Carnahan and Chris Caswell called, New Leaves on an Old Tree


There's Pat come over the hill
His darlin' fair to see
Not whistlin low but shrill
His signal sure to be
His signal sure to say
If you're mother it won't allow're
then come steppin out side to steal
a kiss behind the barn

There's Mary beside the door
a-waiting for her dear
Her mother's beside the hearth
The whistlin's caught her ear
Oh, Mary, listen now,
There is somebody whistlin sure
Oh, Mother it's only the wind
a-whistlin through the door

I've lived for quite a long time
in this old house, my dear
But the wind to whistle like that
I never yet did hear
But Mother you know the fiddle
It hangs close beside the chink
And the wind upon the strings
is playin a tune, I think

The dog is howling now
The fiddle can't play the tune
But Mother - the dog is only
howlin at the moon
But how can he see the moon
when he is old and blind?
Blind dogs don't howl at the moon
and fiddles don't play in the wind

And now I hear a pig
uneasy in its mind
But mother you know they say that
pigs can see the wind
That's true enough by day
but then you may remark
A pig no more than we
can see anything in the dark

I'm not the fool that you think
I knew all along that it's Pat
Go home, you whistlin thief
and do get away after that
And Mary go to bed
don't play upon me your tears
I may have lost my youth
I haven't lost my ears!

So lads when courtin go
and for your sweethearts wait
Take care - don't whistle too loud
in case the old woman you'd wake
For the day when I was young
sure forget it I never can
I learned the difference between
A fiddle a dog and a man.

.
Alice Flynn

Subject: Lyr Add: THE WHISTLING THIEF
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 01:25 AM

I don't know if Samuel Lover composed it or not. There's a song sheet (The whistling thief. H. De Marsan, Publisher, 54 Chatham Street, N. Y. [n. d.]) in America Singing: Nineteenth-Century Song Sheets collection, with these lyrics.

THE WHISTLING THIEF.

When Pat came o'er the hills his colleen fair to see,
His whistle, loud and shrill, his signal was to be.
Oh! Mary, the mother cried, there's some one whistling sure.
Oh! Mother, you know, it's the wind that's whistling through the door.

(whistles: Garry Owen.)

I've lived a long time, Mary, in this wide world, my dear,
But the wind to whistle like that, I never yet did hear.
But, Mother, you know, the fiddle hangs close behind the chink,
And the wind upon the strings is playing a tune, I think.

(dog barks)

The dog is barking now, and the fiddle can't play that tune.
But, Mother, you know that dogs will bark, when they see the moon.
Now, how can he see the moon, when you know he's old and blind?
Blind dogs can't see the moon, nor fiddles be played by the wind.

(Pig grunts)

And now, there is the pig uneasy in his mind.
But, Mother, you know, they say that pigs can see the wind.
That's all very well in the day, but then I may remark
That pigs, no more than we, can see any thing in the dark.

Now, I'm not such a fool as you think; I know very well it is Pat.
Get out! you whistling thief, and get along home out o' that.
And you, be off to your bed, and don't bother me with your tears;
For, tho' I've lost my eyes, I have not lost my ears.

MORAL.

Now, Boys, too near the house don't courting go, d'ye mind?
Unless you're certain sure the old woman's both deaf and blind;
The days when they were young, forget they never can;
They're sure to tell the difference 'twixt wind, fiddle, pig, dog, or man.

H. DE MARSAN
PUBLISHER OF SONGS AND BALLADS
PAPER DOLLS TOY BOOKS &c.
54 CHATHAM ST N.Y.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 05:20 AM

There're 7 editions of "The Whistling Thief" ("When Pat came o'er the hills, his colleen fair to see... [or collin for to see]") in the Bodleian Library Broadside Ballad collection, with "I wish your mother would come" (To the tune of: The whistling thief).

This is the Result of search for "whistling thief" at The Fiddler's Companion:

WHISTLING THIEF, THE. English, Scottish; Jig. England, Northumberland. G Major. Standard. AABB. Kerr (Merry Melodies), Vol. 3; No. 253, pg. 28. Williamson (English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish Fiddle Tunes), 1976; pg. 29.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Big Tim
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 05:54 AM

Recorded by Seumas Ennis in 1955. Sleeve note by Peter Kennedy says "the great songsmith Sam Lover wrote this now classic love song and Seumas really gives us the feeling of what courtship was really like for the sweethearts of local farm lads..."

A maybe more accessible, and much more musical, version was recorded by the Johnstons (with Paul Brady) on their first album (1967), re-released recently. The sleeve note for this included setting the song in "a lonely cottage in the wild countryside of West Kerry...they don't make songs like this any more". Lover was born in Dublin in 1797, died 1868. He was a sort of forerunner of Percy French, putting on shows featuring, songs, stories, monologues, etc.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Alice
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 11:06 AM

It is the Johnston's that I have including the Chorus "With me fal la la la...." on the tape. Their rendition also includes whistling, dog barking sound, pig grunting sound. I like their addition of the chorus between verses.

Alice

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: masato sakurai
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 11:58 AM

Alice, I posted the version because I thought it might be the original by Samuel Lover (19th-century composer).

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Alice
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 12:14 PM

Masato, thanks for posting the Library of Congress copy. I have gone to that site in the past. The reference to Samuel Lover I found on a page regarding Samuel Lover at http://www.pgil-eirdata.org/html/pgil_datasets/authors/l/Lover,S/life.htm

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Alice
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 12:32 PM

From link above, W.B. Yeats wrote: "Samuel Lover had a deal more poetry in him than Lever. It gives repose and atmosphere to his stories and crops up charmingly in his songs.'The Whistling Thief', for instance, is no less pretty than humorous. But at all times it is the kind of poetry that shines round ways of life other than our own. It is the glamour of distance, and is the same feeling that in a previous age crowded the boards of theatres with peasant girls in high-heeled shoes, and shepherds carrying crooks fluttering with ribbons. At the same time it has a real and quite lawful charm.' "

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Alice
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 01:03 PM

When it comes to singing through the different versions at the Bodlein Broadside archive, I find that the earliest dated, published while Lover was alive, is easiest to fit the words to the tune. date 1864 Click here. Masato, thank you for posting results.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Genie
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 01:57 PM

So glad there's a thread here for "The Whistling Thief." I've been hearing David Ingerson singing this from time to time here in the Portland, Oregon, area over the past few years and it's a delightful song. The lyrics David sings are only very slighly different from these two versions. (BTW, "wind" is pronounced to rhyme with "blind" in this song.)

So glad to find the lyrics. Thanks to Alice, Masato, and Big Tim for the info.

Genie

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 06:27 AM

I've an LP of the Johnstons, of which this is one've the tracks.

They seem to be singing;

Here's Pat come over the hill
His coleen fair to see
A whistling overture
His signal's sure to be
......

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:27 PM

The Johnstons do a good recording of this song, I find this version by The Duncan Cameron Band very good,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnfwZjdphtY

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:37 PM

Seán 'ac Dhonncha recorded the tune a number of times, definitive enough as far as I am concerned.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: GUEST,Barbara Ellen
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 05:03 PM

I thought The Whistling Thief IS Cucunandy or Cucanandy--and written by Elizabeth (Beth) Cronin. Which is Lover or Cronin ? I though Alan Lomax had it down as Cronin. It is a slip jig in 12/8 time.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Taconicus
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 08:32 PM

One correction to the Corries version you posted:

Verse 1, line 6:
If your mother it won't alarm

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Taconicus
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 08:44 PM

Sorry, I meant the Caswell/Carnahan (not Corries) version.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 02:30 PM

The oldest copy of THE WHISTLING THIEF that I can find with Google Books is in Songs of Ireland and Other Lands (New York: D & J Sadlier & Co., 1847), page 76.

There, it is attributed to Samuel Lover (1797-1868).

The lyrics are very close to those posted by Masato above, except that it inserts "(Shrill whistle)" after line 2.

I notice a parallel structure between this song and OUR GOODMAN/FIVE NIGHTS DRUNK/etc.

In both cases, an illicit tryst (or series of trysts) is being concealed.
1. The husband/mother notices something which makes him/her suspicious, and mentions it to the wife/daughter.
2. The wife/daughter offers a lame explanation of the phenomenon that has caused the suspicion.
3. The husband/mother points out a fatal flaw in the wife's/daughter's explanation. Nothing further happens until a new phenomenon presents itself, and then the sequence repeats, with a new explanation, and a new objection to that explanation.
The sequence repeats several times.
With each repetition, the concealed tryst comes a little closer to being fully exposed, which is what gives the story its dramatic tension.

So I'd say Lover took his inspiration from the drunken-nights story, which goes back at least to 1714.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief (Samuel Lover)
From: GUEST,santa
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 07:15 AM

The BBC TV ancestors program "Who do you think you are" featured choirmaster Gareth Malone, in which he was presented with and sang a song written by his umpty-grandfather called The Whistling Thief. As posted above. Dan Lowery(?) had been a leading Irish singer in Liverpool in the mid-1800s before moving to Dublin and becoming a leading impresario there. My immediate reaction to the tune was that I'd heard it before, in Geordie music hall. The thread above mentions "Geordie haud the bairn" but it is also used in "I wish Pay Friday wad come", the words being dated to 1870.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief (Samuel Lover)
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 09:10 AM

And Dan Lowery's music hall in Liverpool is mentioned in the song Whip Jamboree (noted by Sharp from Watchet singer John Short).
Derek

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Whistling Thief (Samuel Lover)
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Sep 15 - 02:42 PM

He actually had two - the Malakoff Music Hall in Cleveland Square, off Paradise Street, and the Nightingale Palace of Amusement on Bevington Hill [Annals of the Liverpool Stage, by R J Broadbent, pub 1908]