BS: Sean Penn's plea...

Subject: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 09:11 PM

Did anyone else read Sean pen's plea? I found the tenure of it very refreshing, and agree'd with it mostly...

    (page C3, The Washington Post, October 19, 2002)

...sorry, no website or blue clicky... but here's an excerpt:

Many of your actions to date and those proposed seem to violate every
defining principle of this country over which you preside: intolerance of debate ("with us or against us"), marginalization of your critics, the promoting of fear through unsubstantiated rhetoric, manipulation of a quick comfort media, and position of your administration's deconstruction of civil liberties all contradict the very core of the patriotism you claim. You lead, it seems, through a blood-lined sense of entitlement. Take a close look at your most vehement media supporters. See the fear in their eyes as their loud voices of support ring out with that historically disastrous undercurrent of rage and panic masked as "straight tough talk."...
Seems he paid $56,000.00 to have it printed in the Washington Post!
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 09:43 PM

Tonight on Crossfire, Tucker laughed as he talked about Barbra Streisand being the Dems' policy advisor. Paul Begala countered with (something like) we'll have her duke it out with 'Jerry Falwell'.

I think this is what North America really needs.....Celebrities running the country! Kill the politicians...long live Queen Wynona!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Dave Swan
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 09:46 PM

Ryder or Judd, he asked, moving the converstation to the musical.

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Dave Swan
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 09:47 PM

Just trying to keep the heat off ya, bro Fielding.

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 09:53 PM

All right, Sean! Helluva lot better way to spend $56,000.00 than buying another BMW. But, you know, he could probably have hired a hit-man for about the same amount.

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 09:58 PM

Yeah, ttr, I not only read it but went out and bought another copy of the Post so I'd have two copies of it. I mentioned this letter on another thread and the fact that he had to spend $56,000 to get an editor to publish a "letter" to the newspaper.

Now, I'd like to see some of those other supposed progressive Holliwood folks follow suit and keep those letters comin'. Heck, they got the dough...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 10:33 PM

Rick, we've already had that with Ray-gun!

Alright, Sean!! At least he was telling it like it is!

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Peg
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 10:38 PM

very cool of him. I got to meet Sean briefly a few weeks ago when he was in my neighborhood working in the latest Ckint Eastwood film...saw Clint upclose but did not get to talk to him...

Did this paper really refuse to print this in a letter??? Because it was from an influential celebrity?
or cuz they knew they could make money?

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 10:43 PM

influential? celebrity?

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 10:49 PM

Peg: The Washington Post edits the carp out of the letters that you send 'em. By the time they finish with your letter, you don't recognize the danged thing. Ask me how I know...

Sean did the only thing he could do and *pay up* to get the real intent of his letter not be edited to the point hat it would read any way that the right winged Washingotn Post wanted it to read...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 02:54 AM

Hey, why not, worked in the UK - Glenda Jackson, Sebastian Coe, David Icke, Giles Brandreth, all these were "celebrities" before they became politicians (or certifiable) unlike Tony Banks who was a politician who really should have had 'as seen on TV' stamped on his back... the man would go on any programme at all for the airtime!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: mooman
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:44 AM

Excellent initiative from a "celebrity" I already knew was committed to common sense.

Any chance of a complete transcipt or blicky to a source as I'd like to have this for my files!

Good on you Sean!

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 07:04 AM

Bobertz, I gotta' tell ya', I doan want no editorials about no carps so if they wanna' edit the carp out of them, it's okay by me!!!   Filthy ass fuckin' fish what got no redeeming social values.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 08:08 AM

Now that ain't so, Spawzer, and I think that was a purdy mean thing to say about carp. Hey, they're fun to catch when you're out catfishin' at night with doughballs and about half drunk and the other half asleep and ya got that line running thru the "y" in a stick ya got poked in the gound and then runnin' down detween your big toe and the second toe... And then...BANG! That ol' carp decides he's gonna just take you, your toes and that doughball for a ride... Now I don't know if that ever happened to you but Iz here to say it happened to me and I spent the next hour gettin' that nasty 14 pound carp in on an 8 pound teat line and, well, I gotta agree that it was a nasty ol' fish but it sure was fun coaxin' the bastard in...

So they ain't useless, just nasty...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 08:32 AM

Mooman: I don't do clicky things but the letter is on page A8 of the October 18th edition of the Wsahington Post. Maybe some blue clicky smart person can handle it from here.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 08:41 AM

Then again, Sean married Madonna, so what does that say about his judgment? *G*

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 09:11 AM

A mistake that was quickly rectified, Sharon!

That's the number one test of basic useful intelligence: do you learn from your mistakes?

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 10:52 AM

Hey Bobert - Ya say ya caught that big ole carp on 8 pound teat line? I've been fishin' since forever and ain't never seen no line made from teat before. Where'd ya get it? Do they have line made out of ass too?

*

And about Sean and Madonna, it only goes to show that even intelligent, thoughtful, talented men occasionally let their penises do their thinking for them.

Q: Why are women dumber than men?
A: Because they don't have dicks to carry their brains around in.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 11:02 AM

Be good, Bee-dubya-ell. Ol" Bobert's trying to use this danged thing with a cast on my right hand. That's my story de-jour and I'm sticken to it.

Bobert

And furthermore, *any* fisherman worth his weight in cut bait can land a 14 pound carp on 8 pound test line but it takes a *real* fisherman to do the same using teat line.

Boobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 11:06 AM

Willie-O: Good point!

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: GUEST,Bardford
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 12:34 PM

Here's a page with a gif file of the article:

Artists Network

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: gnu
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 02:46 PM

Re Sean's judgement re Madonna. Ya know, if I had the chance to marry a good lookin, business-smart, talented, multi-millionaire, I don't think it'd be my dick makin the decision. Course, ya gotta wonder about where the little fellah's goin, ie, everywhere the little money maker's been. I'd have to see the paperwork first, but if all the i's were dotted and the t's crossed, I'd probably sign and stamp it... or, at least, rubber stamp it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 03:21 PM

Well . . . apart from the apparent fascination with Madonna and her various attributes, here's the full text of Sean Penn's letter:--

An Open Letter to the President of the United States of America

Mr. Bush:

Good morning sir. Like you, I am a father and an American. Like you, I
consider myself a patriot. Like you, I was horrified by the events of this
past year, concerned for my family and my country. However, I do not believe
in a simplistic and inflammatory view of good and evil. I believe this is a
big world full of men, women and children who struggle to eat, to love, to
work, to protect their families, their beliefs and their dreams. My father,
like yours, was decorated for service in World War II. He raised me with a
deep belief in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, as they should apply
to all Americans who would sacrifice to maintain them and to all human
beings as a matter of principle.

Many of your actions to date and those proposed seem to violate every
defining principle of this country over which you preside; intolerance of
debate ("with us or against us"), marginalization of your critics, the
promoting of fear through unsubstantiated rhetoric, manipulation of the
quick comfort media, and the position of your administration's
deconstruction of civil liberties all contradict the very core of the
patriotism you claim. You lead, it seems, trough a blood-lined sense of
entitlement. Take a close look at your most vehement media supporters. See
the fear in their eye as their loud voices of support ring out with that
historically disastrous undercurrent of rage masked as "straight tough
talk". How far have we come from understanding what it is to kill one man,
one woman, or one child, much less the "collateral damage" of many hundreds
of thousands. Your use of the words "this is a new kind of war" is often
accompanied by an odd smile. It concerns me that what you are asking of us
is to abandon all previous lessons of history in favor of following you
blindly into the future. It worries me because with all your best
intentions, an enormous economic surplus has been squandered. Your
administration has virtually dismissed the most fundamental environmental
concerns and therefore, by implication, one gets the message that you seem
to be willing to sacrifice the children of the world, would you also be
willing to sacrifice ours. I know this be your aim so, I beg you Mr.
President, listen to Gershwin, read chapters of Stegner, of Saroyan, the
speeches of Martin Luther King. Remind yourself of America. Remember the
Iraqi children, our children and your own.

There can be no justification for the actions of Al Qaeda. Ever. Nor
acceptance of the criminal viciousness of the tyrant, Saddam Hussein. Yet,
that bombing is answered by bombing, mutilation by mutilation, killing by
killing, is a pattern that only a great country like ours can stop. However,
principles cannot be recklessly or greedily abandoned in d1e guise of
preserving them.

Avoiding war while accomplishing national security is no simple task.
But you will recall that we Americans had a little missile problem down in
Cuba once. Mr. Kennedy's restraint (and that of the nuclear submarine
captain Arkhipov) is to be aspired to. Weapons of mass destruction are
clearly a threat to the entire world in any hands. But as Americans, we
must ask ourselves, since the potential for Mr. Hussein to possess them
threatens not only our country, (and in fact, his technology to launch is
likely not yet at that high a level of sophistication) therefore, many in
his own region would have the greatest cause for concern. Why then, is the
United States, as led by your administration, in the small minority of the
world nations predisposed toward a preemptive military assault on Iraq?

Simply put, sir, let us re-introduce inspection teams, inhibiting
offensive capability. We buy time, maintain our principles here and abroad
and demand of ourselves the ingenuity to be the strongest diplomatic muscle
on the planet, perhaps in the history of the planet. The answers will come.
You are a man of faith, but your saber is rattling the faith of many
Americans in you.

I do understand what a tremendously daunting task it must be to stand in
your shoes at this moment. As a father of two young children who will live
their lives in the world as it will be affected by critical choices today, I
have no choice but to believe that you can ultimately stand as a great
president. History has offered you such destiny. So again, sir, I beg you,
help save American before yours is a legacy of shame and horror. Don't
destroy our children's future. We will support you. You must support us,
your fellow Americans, and, indeed, mankind.

Defend us from fundamentalism abroad but don't turn a blind eye to the
fundamentalism of the diminished citizenry through loss of civil liberties,
of dangerously heightened presidential autonomy through act of Congress, and
of this country's mistaken and pervasive belief that its 'manifest destiny'
is to police the world. We know that Americans are frightened and angry.
However, sacrificing American soldiers or innocent civilians in an
unprecedented preemptive attack on a separate sovereign nation, may well
prove itself a most temporary medicine. On the other hand, should you mine
and have faith in the best of this country to support your leadership in
representing a strong, thoughtful, and educated United States, you may well
triumph for the long haul. Lead us there, Mr. President, and we will stand
with you.

Sean Penn
San Francisco

Respectfully submitted for your perusal,

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Cubs
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 02:01 AM

It comes back to a couple of lines I have quoted before on other discussions. The first is from what may be called a folksong (to move this discussion slightly out of the "BS" category), "The worst of men must fight and the best of men must die." The other is reputed to have been said by Golda Meir to Anwar Sadat. I don't remember it precisely, but it was close to, "We can forgive you for killing our grandchildren. We cannot forgive you for forcing us to kill your grandchildren."

How will the "folks" feel about a government that forces our men and women to kill others' grandchildren? How will the "folks" feel about the officials who have been exempt from the killing and have exempted their descendents from the killing but sent fellow countrymen to kill other parents and other parents' children and grandchildren?

I have heard the same lyric in my head ever since the sabers started rattling. The original context of the lyric was worlds removed from the present situation, but it fits the present situation.

Too many martyrs and too many dead;
Too many lies, too many empty words were said
too many times by too many angry men.
Oh let it never be again.

Peace.

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 01:38 PM

This morning's Washington Post carries a story entitled "Actor on a Mission for Peace' relating a recent visit to Bagdad by Sean Penn. After his "Dear President" letter, Norman Solomaon of the Institute of Public Accuracy invited Mr. Penn to accompany him in a visit to Iraq.

Upon returning Penn said,"And if there's going to be blood on my hands (*as an American*), I'm not willing to have it be invisible. I wanted to come to Iraq and see I raqi faces- children, adults, diplomats, anybody that implies- and go home with some impressions that will not let me off the hook... It's not abstarct anymore."

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 05:01 PM

Nice refresh Bobert!

I am reasured by Sean Penn's undying efforts to wake us up out of this fear based trance... Why is it that even the most humane and peace loving actions seem kind of out of place these days? Gosh, it feels like it is just not O.K. to want peace and prosperity for all people... like there is something subversive about mutual empowerment and the gift of love... I think we just have to stand up and love our way right out of this despotic tyranny... and into the "Peaceable Kingdom" we all wish for! ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 07:40 PM

ttr: I know of what you speak, brother, but I think if you were to make the effort to get involved in the resistence movement you'd find that there are lots of folks who have tghe passion that we had in the 60's and early 70's. But it is a pian in the butt to have to rewin the battle of ideas when we thought we had all ready won. I took my son to a rally in D.C. and there were lots of kids and a lot of use gray haired pony tailed types but it felt good to be involved. There another big one coming up in three weeks in D.C. and unless I;m frozen out with ice, my son and I will be at that one, too...

That ought to be about the time that the US attacks Iraq. I reckon right around January 12th.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 07:57 PM

You fellow peacniks make life worth living...
that is, if we can survive Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 12:24 AM

Way to go, Sean!

Good to see someone of celeb status put his money and his mouth where his heart is (even if he's taking the risk of becoming his generation's Jane Fonda). You go, bud!

Subject: RE: BS: Sean Penn's plea...
From: DougR
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 01:26 AM

Hey! Sean Penn for President!

Maybe he would like to run on the Green Party ticket!

Being an actor equips one well for politics. They get such a wonderful grounding in foreign affairs, and such.

Maybe he could persuade that other great professional actor politician, Martin Sheen, to be his running mate! Or Alec Baldwin! Great diplomats all!

DougR