Charlie Poole's Banjo Style

Subject: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,bdatki
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 03:25 PM

Hello,

I know that Charlie Poole used a 3 finger picking style. I am trying to learn how to pick some of his songs, but I am only used to frailing, not fingerpicking. Does anyone have any transcriptions or tab of the patterns he used for the banjo?

Thanks!

bdatki

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 03:31 PM

Sorry to sidetrack this, but I just want to let everyone know that I will be airing a special on the music and life of Charlie Poole on my radio program TRADITIONS this Sunday 11/10 over WFDU-FM.   The program will be broadcast at 4pm Eastern Time over 89.1FM in the NYC area, or you can listen in on the internet at www.wfdu.fm .

My guest will be Kinney Rorrer, author of "Rambling Blues: The Story and Songs of Charlie Poole".   Kinney is related to Posey Rorrer, the original fiddler in the Poole's North Carolina Ramblers.

Sorry for the "non-commercial" interuption!

Ron Olesko
WFDU-FM

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,bdatki
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 03:39 PM

That sounds interesting, thanks for the heads-up. I'll try to listen in over the internet.

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 04:36 PM

There are no transcriptions that I know of. It was a deceptively simple style-- don't be fooled by people who say that he did a precursor of bluegrass 3-finger rols.
The most common pattern is : thumb on 4th string index on 2nd and middle on 1st-- try:

count 12341234

      TIMIT I

good luck-- email me privately at [e-mail] for my own ideas on how it's done. Kinney R (who you'll hear on Ron O's program) plays more notes than i do but I think we both have the same idea.

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,bdatki
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 05:08 PM

Thanks Mr Peterson. So he played chords and used that pattern? I shall try it out!

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: Mark Ross
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 05:17 PM

I think the roll was more like(in dropped C, classical banjo tuning);


4 2 1 5 1 2 3 and then double time it. It is alternated with;

4 1&2plucked 3 1&2plucked.

In G tuning substitute a 3 for the four



It's called a minstrel roll.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 05:20 PM

There are transcriptions in a book called "Banjo Songs". yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,bdatki
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 06:04 PM

Thanks everyone. Is dropped C the same as Double C, or is it gCGBD. Thanks

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: Mark Ross
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 07:19 PM

It's

            gCGBD

From what I hear, he never capoed, just moved the chords up and down the neck. I guess he would retune the 5th string as necessary.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,bdatki
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 07:46 PM

Ah, thank you

Now I'll have to learn the drop C tuning chords. They look like finger-hurters.

bdatki

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 08:05 PM

Isn't "banjo style" an oxymoron??

Seriously, I like playing in 'Ward's High Atmosphere,' eCGCD, which I believe is actually a C9.

Anyway, for I (that's a Roman 1) I use either 00000 or 00005, for IV I use 06557 and for V, 08779. The relative minor, I think (no banjo in reach), is 00200. Simple folk soul that I am, those are the only chords I ever use; mostly I playing melodies or runs-and-fills.

CC

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: 12-stringer
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 01:15 AM

I visited Dock Boggs once in the late 60s, and he played me his take of Charlie Poole banjo. He used a regular C tuning and a single barred position that he just slid up and down the neck. He played it in the key of F, starting on the 5th fret with the regular barred C, I believe. I don't remember the tune, which at the time I had never heard before (i.e., it wasn't on the first County LP of Poole), but it was a bright 3/4 piece, with lyrics, and the picking was different from Mr Boggs' regular style.

I was much taken with the style but could not have done a 3-finger roll if my life depended on it. I did work out "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" in a pretty crude 2-finger version, which mostly shared that chord position with the original.

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 08:18 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 09:16 PM

From what I read in Kinney Rorer's book, Charlie Poole did more that just play simple roll accompaniments, "Poole's three-finger roll had now evolved to a higher level and was pointing without question to the development of bluegrass music with twin fiddles and banjo breaks."

Does this mean Poole group was one of the first "bluegrass" groups?

-Richie

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Nov 02 - 09:57 PM

Pete Seeger's famous Banjo book, "How To Play The 5-String Banjo" (at least the first half of it) is in C tuning for anyone who wants to pick it up.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 11:38 AM

Richie--
This is the argument (friendly) I have with Kinney-- he wants to move Charlie Poole into the Bluegrass ancestry and hence make him "more important" than seeing him as a one of a kind phenomenon as I do; seldom imitated never duplicated. IMHO his picking style and contrapuntal runs was a completely different route than Bluegrass. It is possible to play bluegrass without ever listening to what others in the band are doing. You can't play Poole's band style that way.

to Bdatki-- look at what 12-string is saying. For the left hand, make that chord in which your index finger is barring the 4th and 3rd string, middle finger is 1 fret higher and ring finger is 2 frets higher. Play that chord ANYWHERE. Now move it 5 frets higher-- you've got a IV chord for where you started. Move it 7 frets higher and you've got a V chord for that key. Even simple right hand patterns will get you sounding a lot like Poole-- either the way I suggested or Mark Ross' minstrel roll. (Try both!) and have FUN

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 12:36 PM

Banjo Song Book, Tony Trischka -- has a small transcription of "Flop Eared Mule". yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,bdatki
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 12:37 PM

Thanks. This explanation has helped me. Now knowing that I only need one chord shape I should be able to do it a bit easier. I don't know too much about the I IV V stuff, what fret would I start at to be in the same key that Charlie played in most of the time?

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 11 Nov 02 - 01:50 PM

one of his favorite keys was G. So--

the G chord will be (4321 string) 7789 (bar at the 7th)
the C chord is 0012 (no "bar" at all)
the D chord is 2234 (bar at 2nd fret)
try Baltimore Fire, Goodbye Booze, Hungry Hash House this way. Just to drive you nuts, Don't let your Deal Go Down was played in F so the circle-of-fifths progression was D (bar at 2nd) G (bar at 7th) C (no bar) F (bar at 5th) -- easier to do than explain. Where to you live-- this is fun to do f2f! (I am in eastern PA near Phila)

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: GUEST,bdatki
Date: 12 Nov 02 - 01:02 PM

Thanks. Right now I am just strumming to get used to the barre chord , but I have it the progression worked out for Don't Let Your Deal Go Down, singing it is a lot of fun

Too bad I am quite a ways away (I am in Tidewater Virginia). I will work on Don't Let Your Deal Go Down since I know the words and have a copy of that.

Thanks again!

Subject: RE: Charlie Poole's Banjo Style
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Dec 13 - 02:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyADGjml7twhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyADGjml7tw

OR CLICK HERE