Obit: Myra Hindely

Subject: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 02:54 PM

Astonished at the way the tabloids have treated her today.

'Hell' is a Christain concept, as is 'forgiveness.' Most of the dailies appear to have missed the connection.

Ashamed to be English

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST,fed up to the teeth with liberal do-gooders
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 03:48 PM

At least you didn't add RIP. She was an example of why capital punishment should be reintroduced. Thouroughly bad to the bone.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 03:55 PM

Yeah! good news indeed (I was one who walked the moors poking and proding looking for the shallow graves of the (30+) little children that bitch killed...

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Dead Horse
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 03:59 PM

I would have had her cremated,   60 years ago.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:07 PM

Nobody said she was innocent, and nobody said she was blameless. What they did say was that had things been different, particularly as far as the ability of politicians who are elected by a minority of the population is concerned; she would have been out long ago on parole.
Because of politicians, who quoted "public outcry" as their justification, she served longer than the time recommended by the trial judge. What I find really strange is how the public outcry about the poll tax, was ignored, while the possible public outcry about Myra Hindley, is cited as the reason to refuse her, her human rights. We all, even the most vile amongst us have human rights.

Giok

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: rock chick
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:18 PM

She wasn't human, so deserved nothing, she didn't treat those children with any humanity. Hell is her home now she gone, but what about the parents and families who never knew where their children were left to rot, their suffering never goes, her has. Should have hung them years ago and saved all our taxes.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:26 PM

The police could only charge her and Brady with 5 murders, they still think there are 25 other victims somewhere... Yeah, they have rights so do those children and their parents.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: C-flat
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:27 PM

It's hard to find forgivness when the crimes are so utterly evil. Only her keepers can have any insight as to wether she had truly repented and was no longer a threat to society. I believe that if she had been paroled, as she wished, we would have read about her death sooner, either at the hands of a relative of her victims, or a headline seeker.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: okthen
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:27 PM

I'll shed no tears for her, but had she been hanged she would have been remembered as the "last woman to be hanged".Hindley spent 36 years behind bars, knowing she would never be free, a long, drawnout punishment.Also this week, a man freed from a life sentence for a murder he didn't commit and always denied, even when offered parole, in 1990, if he admitted guilt.Had he been hanged there could never be compensation.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:32 PM

Well I'm afraid I'm an unreconstructed dogooder pinko liberal, and no I dont think she should have been hanged burned or any other fate some have wished for her. I can experience this anger like anyone else, but I dont think it's any business of the state to act out our fantasies of revenge on our behalf.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: rock chick
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:37 PM

I agree okthen, with the hanging, there are some who may have been innocent, but they were GUILTY without a doubt therefore should have been hung.
Her long drawn-out punishment is over, those families will never be over their pain.

She doesn't even deserve this thread.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 04:54 PM

Quite so rock chick, she does not deserve mention.. Brady will follow in her footsteps sooner the better.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 05:03 PM

If it is wrong to kill, it is wrong to kill. Whether it is done by an individual or the state. Capital punishment is barbaric, as are those who advocate its restitution. If we are talking degrees of guilt, then what about Harold Shipman, whose crimes are equally horrific, or is it not so bad to kill old people?

Giok

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: pavane
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 05:23 PM

Where did the other 25 possibles come from? Was this public knowledge? I never saw any mention in the press (not that I accept the press as the final authority!).

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 05:29 PM

Possibly from the fertile mind of a GUEST??

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: harvey andrews
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 05:32 PM

I have no brief for Hindley, but can someone explain how the phrase do-gooder has come to mean do-badder? And what phrase do we use for those like Hindley who do bad?

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 05:36 PM

your mind is infertile

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: alanabit
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 06:11 PM

I can feel that same anger as anyone else about her unspeakable crimes. My two small children are sleeping next door and I feel the same horror of child killing as you do.
Dragging a pathetic and defenceless woman out of a prison cell and breaking her neck is a pretty sordid human act too. But we are better than that, aren't we?

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: pavane
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 06:31 PM

Putting a live child into the oven and turning on (and lighting) the gas doesn't seem to be the most humane treatment. And that was only one victim.

By the way, I missed the BBC program on Suzy Lamplugh. But earlier this year, an exhumation and DNA evidence proved that a Port Talbot man was guilty of at least three murders in South Wales in the early 1970's. One double murder (Llandarcy) involved a friend of Mrs Pavane. What is the link? Suzy had noted that she went to meet a Mr Kipper. The exhumed murderer was a Mr Kappen. Coincidence?

And the police had been convinced for nearly 30 years that someone else was guilty of the Llandarcy murders, but couldn't prove it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Ireland
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 06:49 PM

No matter if we say good or bad of Hindely it will make no difference to her, she will never hear or know about it. I mostly agree with rock chick the thread should not have been raised,if was to gain sympathy for Hindely, but it is interesting to learn others views on capital punishment.

I do not go for capital punishment as I believe people should be allowed to repent and leave God to the punishment. Was that woman really repentant and as such how is she explaining herself to the big man.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Gareth
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 07:29 PM

If you can't say anything good about a deceased, then say nothing. On Myra Hindley I say nothing.

Slight change of emphasis, The Moors murders were committed before the abolition of Capital Punishment in the UK for civil murder. They were detected and tried after abolition.

Obviously Capital Punsihment was a great deterent to Hindley and Bradey.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: boab d
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 07:46 PM

To be honest its a great releif for society to be rid of an evil cow like that. Honestly you hear people saying that well she's been in prison long enough. If you think so if it was one of your family would you be so forgiving. I think not. If someone did this to a member of your family no matter how long ago you wouldn't want to see them breath without suffering every second for the pain and anguish that they caused you. 35 years for killing 5 CHILDREN enough time to reflect and repent. In my eyes if you take a life without justification then you should never be free. The reason being that for every person that is killed there is at least one of me and you sitting mourning until it is our time to go.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Ireland
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 07:48 PM

How many have people have been put to death in America over the years, it shows that the death penalty is not a deterrent to some. I wonder if we carried out the punishment of offenders as they did in the past, bit of a go on the rack, touch of disemboweling etc would the thought of such a death deter people.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 07:52 PM

Well they did all that stuff in the 15th century, and wasnt it quiet and peaceful as a result? Not.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST,allen woodpecker
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 07:53 PM

I don't normally comment on non-music threads, but I have an interest is psychology and serial murder, and would like to contribute this small piece.
Hindley has been vilified so widely in this country, it is all-pervading. She has been THE bogeywoman of the last 25 years, against which all other murders, etc are compared. The main reason for this is twofold. Obviously the horror of the acts themselves (has anyone else heard the Lesley Ann Downey tapes) is the main one, but the second is sexuo-political (hey I just made up a new word!). Women are perceived as being life givers, not life takers. Women do commit sexual and serial murders, but they are VERY rare. For this reason, Hindley was the hate figure of the C20th.
Whilst she was always the benchmark of evil, Brady himself has never been considered in the same way. Again 2 reasons. Firstly, he's a man, and it's not so shocking to existing social morés. Secondly, he has the "defence" of being absolutely, undeniably, and irretrievably crazy. People tend to judge him less harshly on this basis. Accepted opinion has it that the Moors Murders were the result of a folie á deux in which Brady was the initiator. Whilst Hindley became his willing pupil, she almost certainly would not have become a murderer of her own accord. Brady, on the other hand, was a threat who went through several stages of murderous evolution before the infamous events happened. I'm not speaking as an apologist for her, just as someone with an interest in the case. I would question the guest who mentions in excess of 25 murders. I've never heard of this, but more importantly, the rule of law is such that she was charged with 5 murders, and only 5. Final point (phew!) I wonder who the next tabloid bogeywoman will be. I fully expect Rose West will have to assume this particular mantle. What the victims families have had to go through has been terrible, but no matter how vehement the abuse or vitriolic the opinions now, Hindley herself has passed beyond caring (if she ever did). The press should be encouraging support for the families, rather than wishing hell on a pile of bones.
a.w.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Ireland
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 08:30 PM

Is the sexuo-political label still being used today? Has there not been execution of women in the states? Now days I think it is an old fashioned perception that people hold such a view.

The keeping of Hindley as the bogeywoman over the years has reminded us that women are just as evil as men so are many shocked to hear of evil deeds carried out by women?

The next bogeywoman will be the girlfriend of the scun who murdered the two young girls in England during the summer. I am going on the age of the victims to make my choice.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 08:35 PM

The detectives at the time attributed more missing children to Brady, but could not obtain enough evidence to prosecute him. It is fairly evident that he murdered before he even met Hindley. The burden of proof being required, they only prosecuted him with the known murders they had evidence of. Unfortunately, even though they searched miles of moorlands they did not find one of the missing children at the time.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 09:43 PM

I had never heard of her until this thread. I was a kid when it happened and we didn't get much international news. Now, on google, I've read more than enough.

I don't think it was a bad thing that she stayed in prison until she died; I certainly wouldn't have wanted her free.(The very thought of Charles Manson going free is horrifying!) However, I don't believe that it would be healthy for me or my family, if we counted one of us among her victims, to spend so much hate on her and wish great suffering to her with her every breath. It would keep us in a constant negative state of stress and, if we allowed it, she would have harmed our family, again, in the detrimental effects on our health. Just something to think about. I feel badly for the families that her death has obviously brought all of this to the forefront, again. It must be very hard for them.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 06:11 AM

I'm with Rockchick, no other way.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 07:04 AM

I also feel that Myra Hindley has been vilified far more than Ian Brady, and my only reservations about her being freed earlier was due mainly to the enormous amount of money that it would have cost the taxpayer to try and ensure her personal safety. I obviously can't in any way condone her actions, but I do believe that we have to consider that part of the reason for a prison sentence is to make the guilty party a fit person to be releasd back into society. In cases like this, I often end up feeling that a large percentage of society want revenge rather than justice. This was very apparent with the two young boys who killed James Bulger.

In some ways this has come at a bad time, because I think that much of the hate for Myra Hindley could now become re-focussed on Maxine Carr. It's already quite noticeable that the public are more intent on her than her boyfriend Ian Huntley.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST,allen woodpecker
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 07:04 AM

Quick reply re. Ireland's comment. Yes, fundamentally women are as capable of evil (and good). But in point of fact, women form a minute percentage of serial killers. It's not unknown, just much rarer, which is why they are almost always more infamous.
As far as the Soham case is concerned, this point is absolutely crucial. At this time, Ian Huntley has been charged with NO OFFENCE, he is merely suspected of an offence. The girlfriend of this "scun" has been chared with obstructing the course of justice. Neither has been proven guilty of any offence. Don't wish to be judgemental, Ireland, but the gangs of egg throwing, rabid, self righteous tabloid reading assholes outside the courts are the scum here. If Huntley did kill those girls, his punishment will find him out. Until then, he MUST be presumed innocent. A very recent case his shown a man released from prison after 25 years for a crime he didn't commit. If in fact Huntley did not kill them, then whoever did is still at large. If after due legal process Huntley is convicted, he can justifiably be referred to as scum.
a.w.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Ireland
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM

"At this time, Ian Huntley has been charged with NO OFFENCE, he is merely suspected of an offence."

(Sky News)
Friday November 15, 02:32 PM
The trial of Ian Huntley and Maxine Carr,*charged*in connection with the murders of Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells, will take place at the Old Bailey. Mr Justice Moses said the trial should be moved out of East Anglia because of concerns that jurors might have links to the police investigation.

Do you know something the rest of the country does not woodpecker?

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: fat B****rd
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 09:22 AM

I was going to keep out of this because although I know my own mind it's easy to be made to look well meaning but in the wrong on the 'Cat. But in this case Rot in Hell, Myra.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: GUEST,allen woodpecker
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 10:01 AM

Ah sorry, Ireland. Typed that last posting in a bit of a drunken stupor. More haste, less speed (and more typos). What I should of course have said is that he has only been charged with the offences, he has not been convicted of any offence. I really should have stayed off the drink last night. Thankyou for pointing out the small but vital cock-up. I hope you know what I meant, even if what I wrote made very lttle sense. I've now had a coupla hours kip, and can now think properly again (oh joy). To recap. Huntley and Carr charged but not convicted. Presumption of innocence still applies. I'm not an apologist of any sort, but everyone MUST assume this innocence until conviction, rather that congregating outside courts shouting for the return of hanging - an absolutely disgusting, holier-than-thou attitude. This is the same behaviour that saw intimidation of paediatricians during the big paedophile scandal of last year. If Huntley killed Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, then no amount of punishment, unpleasantness, and harrassment will be enough for him, but we should have the social decency to wait for the verdict. Mark my words, though, Carr's involvement will receive vastly more hate, vitriol and attention in certain sections of the press, no matter what the details of her conviction. It's an interesting parallel with the Moors Murders, actually, as Huntley already has the Brady like "crazy" tag, due to his Sectioning, while Carr is seen as a monster. Yours in peace and sobriety, a.w.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: cyder_drinker
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 11:41 AM

Burn in hell, bitch.
She's been in prison, at the expense of taxpayers, for far too long. Had she been let out, I have no doubt that she would not have lived anywhere near as long as she did.
Good riddance to bad rubbish. Hope Brady dies in pain too.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Ireland
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 11:53 AM

I was offering imo an alternative to West, I do agree with you on the egg chuckers and all that though.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Firecat
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 03:38 PM

Two words. GOOD RIDDANCE!

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: fogie
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 06:50 AM

Do you all recognise the person you were 36yrs ago?
What is a life sentence for, but time for reflection on what has been done, and what you can do about that unchangeable fact?
Who creates the mind of an aberrant? themselves, their upbringing, their society, genetics, chance?? God ?
Assuming for argument there is no God how would you deal with something that you have done wrong? Can you, and do you want to make amends' are you able to in prison?
Who can know what a person in prison really thinks, and what their motives are?
What does the public seem to "need" icons of "evil" for? They are surely very important to us psychologically, for I certainly seem to carry round more sinners than saints for my reflection.
The deviants in society, provoke more complex reflection than do the good. I put this down in my own case to not having a God to sort things out in the end.
I know the Brady Hindley saga, and such acts repel me ,yet I still look forward to the next Hannibal film, and such things fascinate me. It's almost as if I need to guard myself against such thoughts and use my emotional response to these events as a sounding board of how far into chaos I'd be willing to drift. Presumably this is akin to dreaming, pretend reality at a distance.
I read in the Observer yesterday that Tom Lehrer stopped composing his songs when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace prize "after bombing Cambodia into submission" Murders like Brady's we can sort of cope with and despise, but wars deaths are generally beyond our ken and we see them in another colder more statistical way.
Hindley is gone , she has been punished, I would like to know if and how she came to terms with her deeds... but then if she was able to come to terms, forgive herself, and be forgiven what's to stop us all going outside the bounds of society, whatever that is at a particular date in time. I guess that that's the prospect that scares me.
This and the Crumb thread have been very thought provoking. By posting this i'm trying to understand what I feel about it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Ireland
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 09:47 AM

If a person truly reflects on their deeds while in jail, would they not come to the conclusion that they did do wrong and deserve to be were they are? It was the potential of what Hindley could do based on her actions in the past that kept her in jail.

When people prove they are a menace to society in particular towards the most precious, children, they deserve to lose their rights to be part of it. Should we blame those who jailed this murderer and those who kept her in jail for protect us from a potential evil? It was Hindley and Brady who proved to the rest of us that they are not fit to be among us.

As for Hindley's spirit that is up to God to handle in whatever way he see's fit,Hindley has said she is going to heaven as she believes in a compassionate and loving God who loves unconditionally. One big flaw in this way of thinking, this woman has forgiven herself has asked God for forgiveness but has she asked it from the families of her victims?

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 09:57 AM

The year after B & H were convicted, Raymond Morris , a known "child-molester" was sent down for the murder of seven-year-old Christine Darby; he was also generally believed to be responsible for the deaths of two other young girls, even though he was never charged. He applied for leave to appeal last year. In view of the police's record for locking up the wrong people (Bridgwater four, Birmingham six ... the list goes on), and the fact that he hasn't given up after all this time, it's disturbing to consider not only the possiblity of the man spending thiry-four years locked up (and mostly on his own, for his own safety) when he didn't do it; but the real villain has gone scot-free all this time.

Subject: RE: Obit: Myra Hindely
From: MairSea
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 10:13 AM

I am afraid that my very first reaction was the she has not died, it is just a way of releasing her by the do-good brigade! This way she gets to live the rest of her life in freedom and peace!

I agree that 'forgiveness and repentance' are Christian concepts but if she has repented then why does she not prove it by releasing the information that she has refused tovgive for so long - the burial places and the names of the other children not yet found and laid to rest?

Look at all that time and money wasted - Brady is having the last laugh now - his 'secrets' have supposedly gone to the grave with his infatuated disciple. Now we have the other two emulating this tryst in East Anglia!

I hope she is dead and burning in Hell!