Tech: Power Supply supply has died.

Subject: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 07:47 PM

Has fallen off its perch indeed. (I posted this on anther thread and for some strange reason write "Sound Supply", which doesn't make much sense.)

My son's computer has just died, and it seems to be the Power Supply. Unfortunately it's a Patriot, made by a company that's died; that wouldn't matter, too much, but the case is such that a normal sized sound supply unit won't fit. I've run down an equivalent replacement, but the South-Eastern USA, which is where the supplier is, is a long way off, and I'm hoping for something a bit nearer home.

I've been advised that the best thing might be to buy a new case with a power supply built in, and then transfer all the bits and pieces from the existing case into it. The thought of doing that does not appeal.

Any suggestions? (And don't say he needs to get a new computer - that costs a bit more than is currently available. More than it would in America for example.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 02 - 07:58 PM

And the computer in question is a Patriot CX300, with the part being a MXM145TF1. A minitower, set up so that the Power Supply cannot be more than 12cm deep - which is where the problem lies, since the standard ones are a couple of centimetres more.

Searches for Patriot doesn't help much.The company folded, and most of the stuff you get if you type Patriot in Google now tends to be sites featuring raving lunatics with a gun fetish. But that's potentially controversial thread drift (and I exaggerate a littel, not that much). Computers is what it's about here please.

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 12:00 AM

McG -

Putting your part number MXM145TF1 into an IE search got me at least these two:

Picasso
Procase

It appears that what you need is called the "microtower" size. I can't say that I know anything about either of the two companies above, but it looks like the part number you have is still available from a few places.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 02:22 AM

Hi, Kevin-
An alternative would be to buy a new case and power supply combination, which often costs about the same as the power supply alone.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 03:02 AM

Using the search string "micro ATX" I found:

Search MicroATX
5 different power supply suppliers, $18 - $38 US.

And:

Micro ATX 145BK $25 US - add $1 if you need the power cord.

Cases that came up easily (in the same search result) ran $46 - $52 US - a couple of choices.

I did find:

Monster - a "user's description" of mounting stuff in a $49 case.

The part number given indicates a 145 Watt "Micro ATX" power supply. The "micro ATX" part of it describes a "form factor" that should be standard enough to fit interchangeably with any other with the same description. There were a couple of lower powered units listed, but you'd probably want at least what came in the machine. If you get a good price, a little more won't hurt you, but I doubt that you'll find anything over about a 180W in this form factor - for a bargain price, at least.

These are all "mail-order" so they should be able to get them to almost anywhere - but don't forget the shipping charges when you're figuring what it will cost you.

If you're just wanting to fix this one up "until..." you might find a "used" power supply at almost any (local?) place that does repairs - but it's sometimes a good idea to know what the "mail order $$$" is before you talk to these guys.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 03:29 AM

I've tried seaching a few likely UK sources. Try searching Watford Electronics for ATX power supply. The search should yeild several results including 2 145W Micro AXT units, either of which may do the job.

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 04:10 AM

I'll yield to Guest on this one.

My search for "Micro ATX" + anywhere in or near the UK - shows a lot of cases (from about 12£ (Moretec) on up to 190£ (the top at RipNet-UK), but I was unable to find anyone that lists power supplies separate from the case.

I suspect that the "right" dealer might have them, but they're a pretty low priced item to list(?).

I was about to suggest getting a cheap case - and considering the option of:
1. Put your machine in the new case, or
2. Rip the power supply out to use in your machine - and throw the case away (or maybe put it on ebay?)

Good luck hunting -

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 07:06 AM

Thanks folks - I'm feeling more optimistic about this now.
All the possible suppliers of things that sounded possible I'd found by myself seemed to to be in places like Alabama, and a bit short on details.

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: Willie-O
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 07:56 AM

Micro and mini cases, as you have seen, don't fit standard sized parts but the reverse is not true--all your components will fit in a mid- or fulll-sized case. It's not much more work to put everything in a different case than it is to replace the power supply in the same case, especially a small cramped one.   

People are throwing out 486's and sometimes PENTIUMS all over the place. I've picked up a couple at the dump. OLne of them a working P200.


W-O

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 09:54 AM

Wille-o. I think you need to be a little careful. I know some ATX cases have mountings to take a Mircro ATX motherboard but I'm not convinced they all have.

McGrath seems to have made it clear that he doesn't want to replace the case but it would be my route together with a higher wattage power supply. Rather than spending on a Micro ATX power supply, for an extra £10-15 you could probably get something which would allow a much greater range of upgrades in the future.

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: GUEST,Curious
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 11:08 AM

it might be of use to list the EXACT dimensions of the
needed P/S....and the EXACT type/size of cable connectors...

12 cm converts to 4.72 inches...but what is the LxWxH?

and does the system require 110/220 volts??

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 11:40 AM

When adding a power supply - go with the most powerful one. It has been my experience that the older machines were under powered by the time 2CD's and 2HD's were configured in.

The difference, for me, between the 35.00 and 80.00 transformers has been, clearer CD burning, and no more computer crashes.

It is not difficult.

There is no need for a new tower.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 11:47 AM

I would recommend the 450 watt units found through ZiffDavis (aka PC Magazine)

http://zdnetshopper.cnet.com/shopping/resellers/0-11659-1411-4854854.html

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply has died.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 12:07 PM

Right measurements - 12.5cm wide (but there's room for 15cm), 6cm high (but there'd be room for 10cm) and 10cm deep (and there'd be room for 12cm or maybe 13 at a pinch); system requires 230 volts.

Ideally I'd prefer to have a rather higher rating than 145 watts, - I gather that extra watts just means that you've got them in reserve if you ever need them. I noticed in the Watford site they give a range of wattage rating. I don't know what the useful upper limit would be, the price difference doesn't seem very great.

One reason I'm cautious about mail order, especially from overseas, is the need to get the connections right. The connection to the motherboard is a 20 pin ATX one, which seems standard; the connection to the hard disc is a "Mol ex" plug - and then from that there are two other sets of wires going off a) to a Mol ex plug that goes to the CD-drive, and b) a small Berg plug that goes to the floppy. And there are spare connections going to two other Mol ex plugs which aren't used for anything.

As GUEST 09:54 AM said, I'm reluctant to try moving to a new case, because there seems a lot of chances to screw things up, what with all the different items involved. Especially the motherboard. The only thing I've done inside the case previously has been putting in extra memory, and I think putting in a new Power Supply seems about as much as I'd feel reasonably confident of doing as the next step. And it looks as if it should be possible to get something that would enable me to do that.

But I'm feeling increasingly indignant at the firm who sold the computer having the gall to want to charge £159 for supplying and plugging in a unit that costs around £20, and probably a lot less to them. (And at the same time, to produce the unit for that kind of money must mean that somewhere, out in China or wherever, there are people putting them together who must be working for a pittance.)

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 12:09 PM

It looks as if gargoyle has already asnwered my query in the second para while I was writing it. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 12:33 PM

McGrath, the higher wattage units at the Watford site (at least the ones I saw) were standard ATX units that I think would be too large for your case.

A consideration if you were trying to cram in a much larger unit than the one you are replacing could be heat generated and airflow.

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 04:16 PM

Yes, after I posted there I checked again and realised that the more powerful ones were probably standard sized. I've found a couple of sites with micro-sized ones with higher wattages, but they're all a long way away.

And the airflow point is worth thinking about too. There might be a reason they left a fair bit of space round the unit they used. (Or it might just be that that was the size they came in.)

I've found a place in a nearby town where they have what might be a suitable one. It's the right sort of size, but that's not the only consideration - but the bloke on the phone didn't know too much about computers, which isn't too encouraging in a computer store...I should find out tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 06:57 PM

Good luck McGrath. You will probably find the task of replacing easy and wonder even more about the outrageous price you were quoted.

One little bit of advice, as a "just in case", though you probably already know as you have fitted memory in the past. Make a good contact between you and the metal case to safely discharge any static you have before risking contact with any components within the computer.

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 17 Nov 02 - 09:35 PM

McG

You might be interested in the info at HowStuffWorks. It's pretty basic, but might help you feel a little more confident about getting what you want. Click through the menu for some simple help on how big a unit you need - and I think if you go far enough you get some on how "standard" the box sizes are.

(There are a couple of pop-ups, but apparently harmless)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 01:13 PM

I went out and picked up the Power Supply I mentioned from a place in Stortford £18 plus VAT , with a wattage of 180 instead in place of the old one's 145. I put it in without frying myself or the machine, and it's alive again. I haven't connected it up to the monitor and all, to check it's OK, but it was whirring away happily when I plugged it in, and the lights went on, so I am optimistic.

And the PCWorld repair people wanted to charge £159!

Thanks to everyone for holding my hand and making helpful suggestions. Including unnamed GUEST - and I'm normally very suspicious of them. ("Who was that masked stranger?)

Subject: RE: Tech: Power Supply supply has died.
From: jeffp
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 02:06 PM

Congratulations, Kevin. It's just a short step now to building your own and de-mystifying the whole thing!