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Lyr Req: Hook and Line (and related songs)

Richie 19 Nov 02 - 11:46 PM
Richie 20 Nov 02 - 07:06 AM
Richie 20 Nov 02 - 07:27 AM
Richie 20 Nov 02 - 09:55 PM
kytrad (Jean Ritchie) 20 Nov 02 - 11:14 PM
Richie 20 Nov 02 - 11:17 PM
Pinetop Slim 20 Nov 02 - 11:19 PM
Richie 20 Nov 02 - 11:45 PM
Richie 21 Nov 02 - 12:08 AM
Richie 21 Nov 02 - 12:27 AM
Stewie 21 Nov 02 - 01:51 AM
Stewie 21 Nov 02 - 02:09 AM
Stewie 21 Nov 02 - 03:18 AM
Richie 21 Nov 02 - 07:55 AM
Stewie 21 Nov 02 - 09:53 AM
Richie 21 Nov 02 - 10:05 PM
Richie 21 Nov 02 - 11:00 PM
Richie 22 Nov 02 - 10:35 AM
Richie 22 Nov 02 - 11:15 PM
raredance 23 Nov 02 - 12:05 AM
raredance 23 Nov 02 - 12:30 AM
Richie 23 Nov 02 - 12:31 AM
raredance 23 Nov 02 - 12:43 AM
Richie 23 Nov 02 - 12:52 AM
raredance 23 Nov 02 - 12:59 AM
Richie 23 Nov 02 - 07:17 AM
kytrad (Jean Ritchie) 23 Nov 02 - 05:15 PM
Richie 23 Nov 02 - 07:18 PM
Richie 24 Nov 02 - 08:06 AM
Richie 24 Nov 02 - 12:43 PM
Richie 24 Nov 02 - 09:56 PM
Stewie 24 Nov 02 - 10:33 PM
Richie 25 Nov 02 - 12:09 AM
Stewie 25 Nov 02 - 01:39 AM
Richie 25 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM
Richie 25 Nov 02 - 10:59 PM
GUEST,Bill 20 Mar 07 - 03:36 PM
Artful Codger 09 Apr 10 - 05:23 PM
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Subject: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 11:46 PM

Looking for lyrics to this song family: Hook and Line, nothing much in the DT.

"Shout Lula"
"Shout Lou," Samantha Bumgarner
"Shout Old Lulu"
"Banjo Sam,"
"Mr. Catfish," Marvin Gaster
"Shout Lulu"
"Hook and Line" Dykes Magic City
"Jackfish" (got Kididdles version)
"Seven and A Half" mainer's Mountaineers
"Just From Tennessee" Uncle Dave Macon
"Shout Oh Lulu" Roy Acuff

Any info or history would be appreciated,

Thanks,

-Richie


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Subject: ADD: The Jackfish
From: Richie
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 07:06 AM

Lyr. Add: THE JACKFISH
Appalachian Dance Tune

That old Jackfish swimming up the stream,
I asked that Jackfish what did he mean.
Just baited a hook to catch a shad,
The first thing he bit was my old Dad.

Sing fal de rol de ee-do, ee-do I-do
Fal de rol de ee-do, ee-do-I.
Fal de rol de ee-do, ee-do I-do,
Fal de rol de ee-do, ee-do-I.

Fishpole broke and I got mad
And down to the bottom went old Dad.
I grabbed that Jackfish by the snout,
And turned that Jackfish wrong side out.

Sing fal de rol de ee-do, ee-do I-do
Fal de rol de ee-do, ee-do-I.
Fal de rol de ee-do, ee-do I-do,
Fal de rol de ee-do, ee-do-I.

Notes: From Kididdles. Related to the 'Hook and Line' family of tunes. The chain pickerel, Esox niger , also called a jackfish, black pike, green pickerel, green pike, and justjack by swampers, is an exciting fish that loves to jump, and more than one fisherman has been surprised by a slap in the face by a flying jackfish. A solitary fish, it prefers quiet waters with heavy vegetation, where it stalks its prey. The chain pickerel is a popular gamefish in the northeast and is caught by ice fishermen during the winter, but the world angling record for the chain pickerel was set in Georgia in 1961 at nine pounds, six ounces.

Does anyone know the source of these lyrics? Any other versions?

-Richie


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Subject: ADD: The Shad
From: Richie
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 07:27 AM

I dug through Sharp's EFSSA and found this:

Lyr. Add: THE SHAD

Bait a hook to catch a shad,
The first thing he bit was my old Dad.

Pulled her away with all my might,
Trying for to get the old man out.

Fishpole broke and I got mad
And down to the bottom went old Dad.

Notes: Sung by Mrs. Laura V. Donald at Dewey, Va. June 10, 1918. From Cecil Sharp's EFSSA (with tune: pentatonic mode, G major).


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Subject: ADD: Shout Lulu
From: Richie
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 09:55 PM

From Ceolas: A Fiddler's Companion

SHOUT LULU. AKA - "Shout Lula," "Shout Lou," "Shout Old Lulu." AKA and see "Hook and Line." Old-Time, Breakdown. USA; east Tenn., southwestern Va., north Georgia, north Carolina, Ohio. G Major. GDAD. AABB. Art Rosenbaum (1989) says "this song is much more current in the tradition than its absence from printed collections would suggest." A banjo piece and dance tune, it was the repertoires of Dock Boggs and John Dykes (of the Dykes Magic City Trio) under the title "Hook and Line." Rufus Crisp, Woody Wachtel, Roscoe Holcomb, Pete Steele, Ralph Stanley, and Fiddlin' Cowan Powers 1877-1952? (Russell County, southwest Va.) played it as well as Uncle John Patterson (Carroll County, Ga.), a sometimes Skillet Lickers hanger-on who learned to pick the tune on the banjo "on his mother's {champion banjoist Bessie Patterson} lap when he was three years old" (Rosenbaum).
**
When I get sick and I have to go to bed,
Send for Lulu to hold my head.
Shout, Lulu, shout, Lulu, shout, shout.
**
Shout, little Lulu, sing and pray,
You gonna die some rainy day,
Shout, Lulu, shout, Lulu, shout, shout.
**
Shout, little Luly, shout your best,
Your old grandma's gone west!
Shout, Lulu, shout, Lulu shout, shout.
**
How many nickels will it take
To see little Lulu's body shake?
Two little nickels and a dime,
We'll see little Lulu shake and shine.
Shout, Lulu, shout, Lulu, shout, shout.
**
Shout little Lulu, shout your best,
Granny's got her head in a hornet's nest,
Shout, Lulu, shout, shout, Shout Lulu, shout, shout. (Rosenbaum/Bruce)
**
Source for notated version: banjoist W. Guy Bruce (Trion, Chattooga County, Georgia) [Rosenbaum]. Rosenbaum (Folk Visions and Voices: Traditional Music and Song in North Georgia), 1989; pg. 140. Columbia 146-D (78 RPM), Samantha Bumgarner (Asheville, N.C.) {as "Shout Lou"}. Folkways FA 2492, New Lost City Ramblers - "String Band Instrumentals" (1964). Gennett 6373 (78 RPM), 1928, G.B. Grayson (E. Tenn.). Marimac 9060, Jim Bowles - "Railroading Through the Rocky Mountains" (1992). Old Homestead OHCS 191, "Dykes Magic City Trio" (East Tenn.).

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:14 PM

Gimmie the hook and gimmie the line,
Gimmie the gal they call Caroline;
Sal went a-fishin and she fished all day,
Caught a little hogfish and let it git away.

Dad said this was just dittywords, thrown in occasionally when some banjo picker was practicing on the particular run in that tune. It was a simple tune with few notes, so was a good "learning piece."
It probably was a longer song- but these lines were all we ever heard.


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:17 PM

There's a "Roustabout Song" in the DT. Shout Lula is related to "Roustabout" but I'm not sure about the song in the DT which appears to be an original composition based on a folk song.

Anyone have any lyrics to "Roustabout," especially intersted in African-American versions?

Also the "Hook and Line" songs might originate with a minstrel song called "My Old Dad." The lyric appears in both the "Jackfish" and "The Shad" songs posted above. Any info on this?

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:19 PM

If I've got it right -- and you know I often don't -- your dad was a dulcimer player. Did he play with banjo-pickers? It strikes me that the dulcimer is awful hard to play in an ensemble setting. Any tips on how to accomplish that?


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:45 PM

Kytrad- It's seems likely that the lyrics you shared are related.
Here are some notes from the Henry Reed Collection on the Hog-eye man:

For comparison, see Bayard, Hill Country Tunes, #75 "Hog Eye an' a 'Tater"; Sharp, English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians, vol. 2, 360 (#250) "The Hog-eyed Man" (Clay County, Kentucky), 361 (#251) "The Jackfish" (Callaway, Virginia)

Although a "hogfish" is a salt water fish it could be related to "hogeye" somehow. Note that "The Jackfish" was included in the tunes compared.

Pinetop- Without "Drifting to Far From Shore" my grandfather, Maurice Matteson, played the lap dulcimer and Appalchian folk zither. He did "ballad bagging" programs from the folk songs he collected mainly from Nathan Hicks, Beech Mountain, NC. He was a contemporary of Niles, Mellinger Henry, etc.

-Richie


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Subject: ADD: Ain't I Glad to Get Out of the Wilderness
From: Richie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:08 AM

Lyr. Add: AIN'T I GLAD TO GET OUT OF THE WILDERNESS (American Memory)
H. DE MARSAN, Publisher of songs & ballads; 60 CHATHAM St. N. Y.
A highly popular Song and Dance, sung at the principal Ethiopean Concert Saloons. Arranged by M. W. TURNER, the Celebrated Violinist and Banjoist.

Music-- Tum, Tum, Tum, Tum,

Chorus Ahaa--Ahaa--Ahaa--Ahaa.

Solo-- Way down south in Beaver Creek,
In Beaver Creek, in Beaver Creek,
De niggers--dey grow about ten feet,
Way down in Alabam.

Chorus-- O aint I glad we get out of the wilderness,
Out of the wilderness,
O aint we glad we got out of the wilderness,
And left old Alabam.

[Symphony with Dance as above.]

Solo-- Dey wet de ground wid bacca smoke,
Wid bacca smoke, wid bacca and smoke,
When out of de ground dar heads do poke,
Way down in Alabam.

Dance & Chorus-- Oh aint I glad, &c.

My wife's dead, an I'll get anuder one,
I'll get anuder one, I'll get anuder one,
My wife's dead, an I'll get anuder one,
Way down in Alabam.

Dance & Chorus-- Oh aint I glad, &c.

Solo-- I met a catfish in de ribber,
In de ribber, in de ribber,
I golly, it made dis nigger shiver,
Way down in Alabam.

Chorus and Dance-- O aint I glad, &c.

Solo-- I steered right straight for de critter's snout,
De critter's snout, de critter's snout,
Turned de catfish inside out,
Way down in Alabam.

Dance & Chorus--Oh aint I glad, &c.

Solo-- Oh here we go now altogether,
All together, all together,
Nebber mind de wind or wedder,

Dance & Chorus--Oh aint I glad, &c.

Notes: Also "Down in Alabam," "Out of the Wilderness," "The White Horse." "Old Abe Lincoln Came Out of the Wilderness," "Johnny Stole a Ham," "Old Yeller Dog," "Old Blind Dog."

The original melody of the tune now better known as "The Old Grey Mare (Came Out of the Wilderness)," which begins: "The old gray mare, she ain't what she used to be, Ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be-

It is likely that the tune is older than the 1858 date since it closely resembles a contemporary revivalist hymn--they may have had a common folk ancestor. Bayard (1981) calls it a good example of a popular tune which became traditional (or, if it was a traditional tune reworked by Warner, then a folk tune which became a popular one, which again reverted to folk form). Mark Wilson relates that a parody figured prominently in the famous Lincoln-Douglas campaign of 1860, probably the "Old Abe Lincoln Came Out of the Wilderness" version popular in Civil War times.

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:27 AM

The AIN'T I GLAD TO GET OUT OF THE WILDERNESS has lyrics used in at least three songs:

(First Verse) 1854 lyrics to "Keemo Kimo:"

In South Carolina de darkies go,
Sing song, Kitty, can't you ki' me, oh!
Dat's whar de white folks plant the tow.
Sing song, Kitty, can't you ki' me, oh!
Cover the ground all over with smoke,
Sing song Kitty, can't you ki' me, oh!
And up de darkies' heads dey poke.
Sing song, Kitty, can't you ki' me, oh!

(Second verse) Doc Watson's "Sing Song Kitty:"

Way down yonder on Beaver Creek,
Sing song kitty can ya kime-e-o.
The gals all grow to be six feet,
Sing song kitty can ya kime-e-o.

(Fourth Verse) "The Jackfish" (Posted above)

Fishpole broke and I got mad
And down to the bottom went old Dad.
I grabbed that Jackfish by the snout,
And turned that Jackfish wrong side out.

-Richie


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Subject: Lyr Add: JUST FROM TENNESSEE (Uncle Dave Macon)
From: Stewie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 01:51 AM

Here is how I hear Uncle Dave's 'Just From Tennessee' - subject, as usual, to confirmation by other ears. I'm not certain of the 'eats greens' stanza, but the remainder should be pretty accurate.


JUST FROM TENNESSEE

Spoken: Hello folks, just as soon as I get the epiglottis and diaphonics of my throat cleared up a little, I'm gonna sing you a song. Now I'm gonna give you (a little of) the variations of 'Cotton-eyed Joe'.

Instrumental

Spoken: Hot dog! Ready and rarin' to go!

Listen, good people, to what I say
Just from Tennessee in my weavin'(?) way
Born(ed) in Warren County, raised in Tennessee
If you don't like my looks, don't look at me
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away
Whooo!
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away

Been to Muscle Shoals and I been to Beaver Dam
I've seen no place like Alabam
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away

I got a girl, says she's so tall
She sits in the parlour with her feet in the hall
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away

I got a girl, says she eats some greens
She shakes her wicked foot and she shakes it mean
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away

Coffee in the pot, there's sugar in the bowl
Papa won't eat without jelly roll
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away

Just one thing, and I don't understand
Why a bow-legged woman likes a pigeon-toed man
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away

Just one thing that makes me unhappy
I haven't got a daughter for to call me pappy
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away
Whooo!
Shout Lula, shout I say
Shout Lula, I'm gwine away
Whooo!

Source: transcription of Uncle Dave Macon 'Just From Tennessee' recorded on 13 April 1925 in NYC and issued as Vo 5075 in February 1927. Reissued on Uncle Dave Macon 'Early Recordings 1924-1925' Old Homestead OHCD 4184.

--Stewie.


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Subject: ADD: Hook and Line
From: Stewie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 02:09 AM

Here are the Dyke's Magic City Trio lyrics. The recording is mostly instrumental - lengthy instrumental passages between stanzas.

HOOK AND LINE

Gimme the hook and gimme the line
Gimme that girl they call Caroline

Shout, Lula, shout, shout
What in the world are you shoutin' about

I took my hook and give it a flip
Caught that pretty girl by the lip

Shout, Lula, shout, shout
Shout, Little Lula, shout, shout

Shout, Little Lula, shout, shout
Shout, Little Lula, shout, shout

Shout, Little Lula, shout your best
Your grandmother's gone to rest

Source: transcription of Dyke's Magic City Trio 'Hook and Line' recorded on 10 March 1927 in NYC and issued in September 1927 as Br 128. Reissued on Various Artists 'Old-Time Music from South-West Virginia' County CO-CD-3523.


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Subject: Add: Shout Lula
From: Stewie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:18 AM

Here is my transcription of Grayson and Whitter's recording. I recall reading somewhere that many of the lyrics for 'Shout Lula' were quite risque and it was a favourite of kids for that reason. There is a hint of that in this dance version. There is a spirited banjo rendition by Mrs Louise Foreacre on Mike Seeger's collection 'Close To Home' [Smithsonian/Folkways SF CD40097] that shares some of the G&W lyrics. Does anyone have any scurrilous verses?

The bits in square brackets in the following transcription are spoken or yelled.


SHOUT LULA

Shout, Little Lula, shout, shout
Tell me what you're shoutin' about

[Swing, Wilbur, swing. Whoa]

How many nickels will it take
To see Little Lula's body shake
It takes a nickel, it takes a dime
To see Little Lula's body shine

[Shout Lula! Yee-haw! Shake that thing! Swing that girl, Henry! Wow!]

Shout, Little Lula, shout, shout
Tell me what you're shoutin' about

Shout, Little Lula, shout and sing
Your old grandmother's gone to swing

[Whoop that fiddle!]

Shout, Little Lula, shout your best
Your old grandmother's gone to rest

[Come on, Lula, swing! On my way somewheres. First couple out! Swing!]

Shout, Little Lula, shout, shout
Tell me what you're shoutin' about

[Whooo! Swing, Lula, swing! Shout Lula! Yee-haw! Say, Henry when you gonna pass that bottle?]
['Bout ten minutes.]
['Bout time.]

[Shake that thing!]

Shout, Little Lula, shout, shout
Tell me what you're shoutin' about

[Whooo! Come on, Lula, shout, Lula, shout]

Shout, Little Lula, shout and sing
Your old grandmother's gone to swing

Source: transcription of G.B. Grayson & Henry Whitter 'Shout Lula' recorded on 10 October 1928 in NYC and issued as Gnt 6373 in March 1929. Reissued on Grayson & Whitter 'Complete Recorded Works Vol I' Document DOCD-8054.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 07:55 AM

Thanks Stewie, Any other lyrics or info on "Jackfish" or "Hook and Line" or "Shout Lula"?

Here's a bit of info mainly from Ceolas and Folk Song index on Roustabout-

ROUSTABOUT: "Shout Lu/Lulu," "Shout Little Lulu/Lulie." Old-Time, Breakdown. USA; southwestern Va, western N.C. C Major/G Major (Dent Wimmer): D Major (Dan Tate). GDGD. AABB. Ancient sounding African-American banjo song sometimes played on a gut-string fretless gourd banjo.

The tune is known as a banjo song and employs a special tuning on that instrument: gCGBD or "Standard-C", "Single-C", "Drop-C","C-tuning" Used to be one of the most widely used banjo tunings, and is a "standard" in bluegrass as well as old-time music. C-tuning was the basis for most of the 19th century banjo methods and the written banjo literature. Nowadays, many old-time pickers use "Double-C" for tunes that were formerly more often heard in "Standard-C" (e.g. Mississippi Sawyer, Soldier's Joy, Arkansas Traveler, Turkey in the Straw, to name a few in the canon). Tuned up to D, this becomes aDAC#E.

How can you be so mean to me,
Been so good to you.
Wish to the Lord I'd never been born,
Died when I was so young;
Never be here to eat this salty meat,
Or hear your lying tongue.
Who's Gonna shoe your pretty white foot,
Who's gonna glove your hand;
Who's gonna kiss your ruby red lips,
When I'm in a far off land.
Papa will shoe my pretty white feet,
Mama will glove my hand;
Nobody's gonna kiss my ruby red lips,
'Till you return again. (Tom Carter & Blanton Owen)

Sources: Fuzzy Mountain String Band (North Carolina), who had the tune from Gaither Carlton {d. 1972} (Deep Gap, N.C.) [Brody, Spandaro]. Brody (Fiddler's Fakebook), 1983; pg. 236. Spandaro (10 Cents a Dance), 1980; pg. 32. Heritage XXXIII, Dan Tate (Fancy Gap, Va.) - "Visits" (1981). Kicking Mule 213, Susan Cahill- "Southern Clawhammer Banjo." Rounder 0035, Fuzzy Mountain String Band- "Summer Oaks and Porch" (1973). Rounder 0057, Dent Wimmer (Payne's Creek section, Floyd County, Va.) - "Old Originals, Vol. 1" (1978. Learned from the Smith boys {John, Dink, and Dan} of Green Creek, Va.).

REcording info: Roustabout (Related To - Shout Lulu)
1. Cahill, Susan. Southern Clawhammer, Kicking Mule KM 213, Cas (1978), cut#A.07
2. Cockerham, Fred. More Clawhammer Banjo, County 717, LP (1969), cut# 2
3. Creed, Kyle. New River Jam: One, Mountain 308, LP (197?), cut# 15
4. Creed, Kyle. 39th National Folk Festival, NCTA NCTA 77, LP (1977), cut#A.03
5. Creed, Kyle. Liberty, Heritage (Galax) 028 (XXVIII), LP (1977), cut#B.05 (Roust-a-bout)
6. Fuzzy Mountain String Band. Summer Oaks and Porch, Rounder 0035, LP (197?), cut# 5
7. Holt, David. It Just Suits Me, June Appal JA 0038, LP (1981), cut# 12
8. Roberts, Dink. Black Banjo Songsters of North Carolina and Virginia, Smithsonian SF 40079, CD (1998), cut#28
9. Tate, Dan. Visits, Heritage (Galax) 033, LP (1981), cut# 12
10. Tenenbaum, Molly. And the Hillsides Are All Covered with Cakes, Cat Hair, Cas (1994), cut# 11
11. Wimmer, Dennis O. "Dent". Old Originals, Vol. 1, Rounder 0057, LP (1978), cut# 4

I also asked about the Roustabout Song - Bustin, Dillon.
1. Paton, Caroline and Sandy. New Harmony, Folk Legacy FSI-100, LP (1987), cut# 10.

Sandy Paton- Any info on Roustabout Song?

-Richie


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHOUT LITTLE LULU
From: Stewie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:53 AM

Richie

Here's a short one recorded by Lomaxes:

SHOUT LITTLE LULU

A whole heap of nickels and a whole heap of dimes
A-going to see my Lulu gal a whole heap of times

Shout, Little Lulu, shout your best
Your old grandmother's in hell I guess

I'd give a nickel and I'd give a dime
To see my Lulu gal cut a monkeyshine

Source: Duncan Emrich 'American Folk Poetry: An Anthology' Little, Brown and Co p 64. Recorded by Alan and Elizabeth Lomax from the singing, with banjo accompaniment, by Pete Steele at Hamilton, Ohio, 1938. Library of Congress record LP21.

I have some info on Dink Roberts' 'Roustabout' which I will post for you tomorrow.

--Stewie.


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Subject: Lyr Add: FISH ON A HOOK
From: Richie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:05 PM

Lyr. Add: FISH ON A HOOK
Sung by Dan Tate at his home in Fancy Gap, Carroll County, VA.

Fish on a hook, fish on a line,
Fish no more 'til the summer time.

Throw my hook to the middle of the pond.
Fish for the girl with a josy on.

Fish on a hook, fish on a line,
Fish no more 'til the summer time.

See that catfish a-going upstream,
What in the hell does a catfish mean?

Fish that catfish by its snout,
Turn that catfish wrong side out.

Fish on a hook, fish on a line,
Fish no more 'til the summer time.

Notes: From "Far in the Mountain" CD

-Richie


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE JACKFISH
From: Richie
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:00 PM

Lyr. Add: THE JACKFISH

That old Jackfish swimming up the stream,
And I asked that Jackfish what did he mean.
I grabbed that Jackfish by the snout,
And took that Jackfish wrong side out.

O de lor de lor gal, sindy, sindy,
Lor de lor gal, sindy, sue.

Notes: Sung by Mr. Ebe Richards at St. Peter's School Calloway, Va.,
Aug. 18, 1918. From Cecil Sharp's EFSSA No. 251, pg. 361


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHOUT LULA
From: Richie
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:35 AM

Lyr. Add: SHOUT LULA

Banjo intro-

Shout Lula shout, shout, what in the world you shoutin' bout,
(Banjo fill)
Shout Lula shout, shout Grandma's done run out.
(Banjo fill)

Shout Lula shout, shout your head, your Grandma has gone to bed
(Banjo fill)

How money will it take to see little Lula body shake,
Take a nickel, take a dime to little Lula's body shine

(Banjo solo)

Shout Lula shout, shout, what in the world you shoutin' bout,
(Banjo fill)

Notes: From Frank Lee, who lives on Deep Creek in Bryson City, NC and performs Old-Time mountain music, a program features Frank playing and singing "Riley the Furniture Man" and "Shout Lula".


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Subject: Lyr Add: DRY WELL BLUES
From: Richie
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 11:15 PM

Since "Shout Lula" seems to related to blues and work "hollers" perhaps the "Lula" originally refers to Lula, Mississippi or the Lula women from that town. Here's the lyrics to "Dry Well Blues" by Charlie Patton.   

Lyr. Add: DRY WELL BLUES

Way down in *Lula, hard livin' has done hit
Way down in Lula, hard livin' has done hit
Lord, your drought come an' caught us, an' parched up all the tree

Aw, she stays over in Lula, bid that ol' town goodbye
Stays in Lula, bidding you the town goodbye
'Fore I would come to know the day, oh, the Lula well was gone dry

Lord, there are citizens around Lula, aw, was doin' very well
Citizens around Lula, aw, was doin' very well
Now they're in hard luck together, 'cause rain don't pour nowhere

I ain't got no money and I sure ain't got no hope
I ain't got no money and I sure ain't got no hope
**....come in, furnished all the cotton and crops

Boy, they tell me the country, Lord, it'll make you cry
Lord, country, Lord, it'll make you cry
Most anybody, Lord, hasn't any water in the bayou3

Lord, the Lula womens, Lord, puttin' Lula young mens down
Lula men, oh, puttin' Lula men down
Lord, you outta been there, Lord, the womens all leavin' town

Notes: by Charley Patton,recording of 1929-1934, from "Charley Patton: Founder Of The Delta Blues" (Yazoo L-1020).


*At the time he recorded this song, Patton lived in Lula, Mississippi
** can't understand lyrics here.


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: raredance
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 12:05 AM

As to the fish, in Canada the much larger northern pike (Esox lucius) is also often referred to as a "jack". I think the sportfishing record for that species is around 46-48 pounds. There was a 1960's recording of Jackfish, with words pretty similar to those in the second post way up at the top, by the Modern Folk Quartet. It may have been called "To Catch A Shad" on the album, but I don't remember for certain. None of this adds anything to the origins of the song.

rich r


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Subject: ADD: The Catfish
From: raredance
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 12:30 AM

THE CATFISH

A.
1. Catfish, catfish, goin' up stream,
Catfish, catfish, where you been?
I grabbed that catfish by the snout,
I pulled that catfish wrong side out.
Yo-ho! Banjo Sam.

2. As I was goin' thro' the field
a blacksnake bit me on the heel.
I grabbed my stick and I done my best,
And I ran my head in a hornet's nest.
Yo-ho! Banjo Sam.

3. And I was goin' down the road,
I met a terrapin and a toad.
The terrapin he began to sing,
The toad he cut the pigeon wing.
Yo-ho! Banjo Sam.

B.
I saw a catfish going up stream,
I asked that catfish what did he mean;
I caught that catfish by the snout,
I jerked that catfish wrong side out.

C.
Catfish, catfish, swimming up stream,
Ask that catfish what he means;\
Ketch that catfish by his snout,
Turn that catfish round side out.

D.
Catfish swimming down the river,
Nigger threw out his line.
Catfish said to the nigger,
"Aha, you didn't ketch me that time"

The above four texts appear in the Frank C Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore with the following (slightly edited) annotation:

The A text, the only one that has more than one stanza, is to be found in "Mountain Songs of North Carolina" (G Schirmer) by Susannah Wetmore and Marshall Bartholomew. the catfish stanza is known in Kentucky (as a stanza of "Turkey in the Straw"), South Carolina, and Texas, and has become "jackfish" in Virginia (Sharp, where it is called a jig and has a chorus); the snake and the hornet's nest found their way to the minstrel stage more than a hundred years ago (i.e before 1850)and have been reported more recently from South Carolina and Alabama, and Talley ("Negro Folk Rhymes") reports the hornet's nest ; the terrapin and the toad are linked together in unnumbered Negro songs.


rich r


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHOUT LULA
From: Richie
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 12:31 AM

-rich r

I love to fish and have caught jackfish and northern pike. I caught an 18 lb 6 oz Northern in Lake of the Woods, Ontario on a Johnson weedless spoon with pork trailer.


SHOUT LULU- Banjo

Shout little Lulu shout, shout,
Shout little Lulu shout about.

How many nickles will it take,
To see little Lula body shake,
Takes a nickel, takes a dime
To little Lula's body shine.

Shout little Lulu shout, shout,
What in the world you shouting about?

Shout Lula shout, shout your best,
Grandma's gone to rest.


Notes: Played on banjo. Doc Watson and Clarence Ashley 1960-1962
1994, Smithonian Folkways, CD SF30029/30. Very similar to Frank Lee's version which you can hear on his web-site.

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: raredance
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 12:43 AM

OK Richie, but when my youngest son was 10 he caught a 43 inch 22 lb northern in Lake-of-the-Woods on a walleye slip sinker rig with a leech! A year later he caught a much smaller 42 inch one trolling a crankbait. Of course it was dad the boat driver that put him in position for both.

rich r


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 12:52 AM

Rich r

Thanks for your post and fish stories. Someone has been asking for "Banjo Sam" lyrics in a previous post.

You wouldn't mind if I came and visted you for a week! Actually I'm a bass fisherman here in NC. Sounds like you're a pretty good "jackfish" guide.

Anyone have any "roustabout" songs to tie in with these?

-Richie


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Subject: Lyr Add: LULU
From: raredance
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 12:59 AM

Meanwhile back at the songs.

LULU

1. I went a-fishin' an' fished for shad;
First I caught was my old ad.
Jerked him up an' he fell back,
Next one bit was a great big cat.

2. I'll give you a nickel
An' I'll give you a dime
To see little Lulu
Cut her shine.

3. My old missus promised me
That when she died she'd set me free.
An' now she's dead an' gone to hell;
hope the devil will chunk her well.

4. Shout, little Lulu,
Shout your best,
Fur your ole grandmaw's
Gone to rest.

5. The bull frog's up
In the bottom of the well;
He swore by God
He'd gone to hell.

6. He jumped in the fire
An' scorched his hand;
If he ain't in a hot place
I'll be damned.

7. Love you fur a nickel,
Love you fur a dime;
Lulu, get your hair cut
Just like mine.

This is also from the FCBCNCF. The annotation for this one includes:

A medley, as are so many of the traditional songs of the Southern mountains. Since our text was published in 1909 Henry has reported a briefer version from Avery county (Journal of American Folklore). Perrow (JAFL) prints a song from Kentucky containing our first stanza with "Dad's old lip" for "my old ad" and suggests that our "ad " should be "dad" - the granddaddy of all fish.

"Lulu" Reported in JAFL (1909) by Louise Rand Bascom from the mountain country of North Carolina. Miss Bascom notes that the last two lines are "like the popular song which used to be sung everywhere,
      Johnny get you hair cut.
      Johnny get you hair cut,
      Johnny get you hair cut,
      Just like mine."


rich r


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 07:17 AM

rich r thanks for your posts,

Here are some of my notes on the "Johnny Get Your Hair Cut/Granny Will your Dog Bite?" songs which also date back to the mid 1800's:

OTHER NAMES: "Betty Martin," "Boatin' Up Sandy," "Brad Walters," "Chippy/Gippy Get Your Haircut," "Hog Eye and a Tater," "The Hog Eye Man," "Hog Eye," "Jake Gilly," "Old Mother Gofour," "Old Granny Rattletrap," "Pretty Betty Martin," "Very Pretty Martin," "Sally in the Garden," "Tip Toe Fine," "Fire on the Mountain," "Gate to Go Through;" "Buck Hord/Hoard" "Johnny Get Your Hair Cut," Incorrectly named for "Old Jake Gillie."

RELATED TO: These branches and connected groups-
1) "Hog-Eye" songs
2) "Betty Martin; "Tip Toe Fine" "Johnny/Chippy Get Your Hair Cut" songs
3) "Fire on the Mountain" songs
4) "Sally in the Garden" songs                     


RECORDING INFO: 1928 recording of Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers (Sally in the Garden); Armstrong, Sarah. Hill Country Tunes: Instrumental Folk Music of Southwestern Penn, Amer. Folklore Society, fol (1944), 71 (Johnny Get Your Hair Cut); Fraley, J. P. and Annadeene. Gallynipper, June Appal JA 0058C, Cas (1990), cut# 8; Fraley, J. P. and Annadeene. Maysville. Old Time Fiddle Tunes, Rounder 0351, Cas (1995), cut#A.06; Jarrell, Tommy. Rainbow Sign, County 791, LP (198?), cut# 8; Lamb, Dwight. Dwight Lamb, American Heritage, LP (196?), cut# 13; Lamb, Dwight. Joseph Won a Coated Fiddle, Rounder 0429, CD (1999), cut# 20; Mabus, Joel. Clawhammer, Fossil, Cas (198?), cut# 10b; Milnes, Gerry. Old Time Fiddling of Braxton County. Vol 2, Augusta Heritage AHR 013, Cas (1992), cut# 5; Parrish, Pete. Galax International, Heritage (Galax) 067, LP (1988), cut# 11; Robertson, Lonnie. Fiddle Tunes - Ozark Style, Vol. 2, Caney Mountain CLP-233, LP (1980), cut# 11; Walters, Bob. Old Time Fiddler's Repertory, University of Missouri --, LP (1973), cut# 1; West Orrtana String Band. West Orrtana String Band, Revonah RS-924, LP (1976), cut#B.07; Wine, Melvin. Vintage Wine, Marimac AHS 6, Cas (1993), cut#B.06; Augusta Heritage AHS6, Melvin Wine - "Vintage Wine." Missouri State Old Time Fiddlers' Association, Dwight Lamb (b. 1937) - "Old Ladies Pickin' Chickens." Missouri State Old Time Fiddlers' Association, Bob Walters (1889-1960) - "Old Time Fiddler's Repertory" (1976). Revonah Records RS-924, "The West Orrtanna String Band" (1976). Voyager VRCD 344, Howard Marshall & John Williams - "Fiddling Missouri" (1999).

SOURCES: Dance to the Fiddle by Bayard; Traditional Music in America, Folklore Associates, Bk (1940/1965), p 36a; ); Collins, Sherman. Fiddle Book, Oak, Bk (1967), p 82; Bob Walters (1949, Burt County, Nebraska) [Christeson, Phillips]; Sherman Collins (Pawnee County, Oklahoma) [Thede]. R.P. Christeson (Old Time Fiddlers Repertory, Vol. 1), 1973; No. 1, pg. 3. Ford (Traditional Music in America), 1940; pg. 36. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), 1994; pg. 102. Songer (Portland Collection), 1997; pg. 87. Sweet (Fifer's Delight), 1964/1981; pg. 58. Thede (The Fiddle Book), 1967; pg. 82; Cohen/Seeger/Wood, p. 67, "Hog-eye;" Darling-NAS, pp. 254-255, "Hogeye"

NOTES: This melody is popular under several titles, however, the title "Granny Will Your Dog Bite" also is a floating title. It was frequently played at Mid-Western fiddle contests. R.P. Christeson says his version is dissimilar to the tune of the same title in Ford (1940), but is similar to "Tip Toe, Pretty Betty Martin" in the same book. Bayard (1981) notes the resemblance between this tune and the "Betty Martin" variants, many listed as alternates above. The tune was recorded for the Library of Congress by musicologist Vance Randolph from Ozark Mountain fiddlers in the early 1940's. See also related tunes "Gate to Go Through" and "Old Coon Dog."

Ford (1940) said that "occasional verses" were sung by fiddlers while playing the tune, and indeed, various verses have been collected from both white and black sources. (Ford's collection area was the Mid-West, often Missouri, and Thede printed Oklahoma versions). Charles Wolfe (1991) remarks the tune has been collected widely from Mississippi to California, and notes that Ray Browne (writing in The Alabama Folk Lyric, 445) heard it often as a banjo tune popular more with blacks than whites.

From 3rd Maine Volunteers Home Page: "Granny" was a popular fiddle tune in the 1850s, and was adapted by Military Fife-and-Drum Corps on both sides of the Civil War. It is a regular part of the repertoire of the 3rd Maine Regimental Field Music (F&DC) Reenactment Unit. It has a really kickin' rudimental drum beat to it - particularly the bass, which really thunders. One set of lyrics used by 3rd Maine are: "Granny will yer dawg baht?; Hellfahre, no!"

On the Ken Burns Civil War series, a historian recalls how when one Volunteer Regiment had all of its musicians shot down in battle, one enterprising infantryman with a fiddle approached the Commanding Officer with the offer to "fiddle the boys in" on the next charge... which he did, to a rousing rendition of "Granny". It was his last tune.

The inherent problem with "Granny Will your Dog Bite" is that the name has been used for so many tunes and related songs. The "Granny Will your Dog Bite" lyrics appear in everything from "Devil Went Down to Georgia" to a book of nursery rhymes.

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 05:15 PM

This may be relevant...Bessie Jones and I used to share stages together, from early sixties into seventies, and we used to do play-party games- she'd sing hers and I'd sing one from our family that matched it. She had many "shout" songs, and always explained that the word, "shout" in a game or song meant, "dance." Younger members of her family and community would sometimes be with her, and as she sang they'd sing with her, clap hands and dance or "shout."


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 07:18 PM

-Kytrad, good piece of info.

We've got some good lyrics here. Does anyone have more "Banjo Sam" lyrics.

Here are some recordings:

Watts, Wilmer & the Lonely Eagles: Banjo Sam, JEMF/Arhoolie

Bob Coltman: Before They Close the Minstrel Show- Banjo Sam JD-202;
Recorded 1975

Jones, Grandpa: BEAR 15788, Everybody's Grandpa - 5-Cd Boxed Set/Book, CD-1: Banjo Sam

Also since "Roustabout" is a related song, I'd like to put some lyrics here. I know Bill Monroe did a version and Flatt & Scruggs. I'll put some info on in my next post.

Thanks,

-Richie


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Subject: Lyr Add: ROUSTABOUT
From: Richie
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 08:06 AM

Here's a version of "Roustabout" from the bluegrass sites, I assume it's by Monroe or Flatt and Scruggs or both. Does anyone have the source?

Lyr Add: ROUSTABOUT

Refrain: Well, it's a long long way
It's a long long way
To the Gulf of Mexico

Well, I make my home on the Mississippi
I'm a roustabout on a Steamboat line
Let's hit the deck on a Monday morning
Let's make the lock on a Saturday night

Well, I have me a gal way down in Vicksburg
And she used to stop every time I passed
Then she made off with a little rich man
With a new silk suit and a little mustache

* Refrain

Does anyone have info or lyrics to the hollers, "Levee Camp Holler"
"Steel Laying Holler," or "Roustabout Holler" which may be related?

These lyrics are quite different than the Roustabout posted above from A Fiddler's Companion. All my source indicate Roustabout is closely related to "Shout Lula."

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:43 PM

One of the oldest uses of the "Jackfish/Catfish" lyric is "Turkey in the Straw," which was "undoubtedly in American folk tradition before the 19th century," says Bronner (1987), and that popular theater and minstrel groups during the 19th century helped consolidate and spread its popularity (it was often called "Old Zip Coon" in minstrel tradition). Fuld reports the title "Turkey in de Straw" appeared in 1861 attached to the tune through new song lyrics, copyrighted by one Dan Bryant, the melody labeled only an "old melody." Here's the "Catfish" verse with chorus:

Met Mr. Catfish comin' down stream.
Says Mr. Catfish, "What does you mean?"
Caught Mr. Catfish by the snout,
And turned Mr. Catfish wrong side out.

Turkey in the straw, turkey in the hay,
Roll 'em up and twist 'em up a high tuckahaw
And twist 'em up a tune called Turkey in the Straw.


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 09:56 PM

Here are some lyrics from Hush, Little Baby. Verses 4 and 5 have the "hook and line" lyric:

Hush, Little Baby
                                 
1.Hush, little baby, don't say a word, Papa's goin' to buy you a talkin' bird;
2.If that talking' bird don't sing, Papa's goin' to buy you a diamond ring;
3.If that diamond ring don't shine Papa's goin' to get you a hook and a line;
4.Hook and line don't catch you a fish, Papa's goin' to get you a silver dish;
5.If that silver dish gets broke, Papa's goin' to get you a nanny-goat;
6.If that nanny-goat should go dry, Papa's goin' to get you a butterfly;
7.If that butterfly fly away, Papa's goin' to rock his baby all day.

How does this relate to our 'Hook and Line' thread?

Richie


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Subject: Lyr Add: ROUSTABOUT
From: Stewie
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 10:33 PM

Richie,

Here is the 'Roustabout' info I promised, albeit a bit later than anticipated.

Here are the lyrics to Dink Roberts' [1894-1989] version of 'Roustabout':

ROUSTABOUT ("Buffalo")

Where you been?
You - roustabout
Say, when you go a-courtin'
Yea, when you go a-fishin'
Carry a hook and line
Yea, when you go a-courtin'
Court with a willin' mind
Yea, who been here since I been gone?
Little bitty girl with the red dress on

Source: transcription in booklet in Various Artists 'Black Banjo Songsters of North Carolina and Virginia' Smithsonian/Folkways SFCD 40079.

The notes by Cece Conway and Scott Odell to this piece read in part:


Along with 'Coo Coo', this ['Roustabout'] is one of the important showpiece tunes in the black banjo repertory ... This tuning [gCGBD] ... was also used by the earliest minstrels. The song is likely a reminder of the older uses of this tuning that was current when whites first learned the banjo from blacks in the 1830s and later when the 5-string banjo appeared ...

Dink says that he learned this song at age 15 from his family in the Piedmont. He took it with him when he moved to Mt Airy in Surry County to farm and to work on the railroad. The 2-part structure with the striking key change is found in other black versions and also in Fred Cockerham's. An outstanding white banjo player, Fred grew up and lived most of his life in Low Gap, not far from Mt Airy, but did not remember any black musicians in the area; nor is there any indication that he and Dink ever heard each other play. Some black players, including John Tyree and Rufus Kasey, call this tune 'Hop Light' or 'Hop Along Lou', echoing the refrain used in some versions, including Cockerham's. To the best of Fred's memory, Mal Smith brought 'Roustabout' to the area from Virginia in the first quarter of the century and called it 'Long Steel Rail'. The likelihood of a Virginia source is strengthened by the complex and closely related versions of black players Rufus Kasey, Josh Thomas and others from Virginia, many of whom were working on or near the railroads during this same period.
[Cece Conway and Scott Odell, pp25-26 in booklet to SFCD 40079]


I have John Tyree's recording of 'Hop Along Lou' on Various Artists 'Virginia Traditions: Non-Blues Secular Black Music' Global Village CD 1001, but it is an instrumental piece only.

Here is my transcription of Fred Cockerham's version:

ROUSTABOUT

Roustabout, oh roustabout
Where have you been so long?
Oh I been and I been with a forty dollar man
Honey, I'm goin' back again
Hop high, hop high, hop high
Oooo, baby, oh hop high you Lulu girl

Where did you get those brand new shoes
Shoes that you wear so fine?
Well, I got my shoes from a railroad man
My dress from a driver in the mine
Hop high, hop high, hop high
Oooo, baby, oh hop high you Lulu girl

Who's gonna shoe your pretty little feet?
Who's gonna glove your hand?
Mama will shoe my pretty little feet
Papa will glove my hand
Hop high, hop high, hop high

Source: transcription of Fred Cockerham 'Roustabout' on Various Artists 'More Clawhammer Banjo Songs & Tunes From the Mountains' County LP 717.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 12:09 AM

Thanks for your excellent post Stewie,

Here are some other lyric sources:

IN THE PINES: Leadbelly
Tell me, where did you get them pretty little shoes
And the dress you wear so fine?
I got my shoes from a railroad man
Got my dress from a driver in the mine

IN THE PINES: Bill Monroe
I asked my captain for the time of day
He said he throwed his watch away
A long steel rail and a short cross tie
I'm on my way back home.

JOHN HENRY: Virginia Version
Who's going to shoe your pretty li'l feet?
And who's going to glove your hand?
Who's going to kiss your dimpled cheek?
And who's going to be your man?
Who's going to be your man?

My father's going to shoe my pretty li'l feet;
My brother's going to glove my hand;
My sister's going to kiss my dimpled cheek;
John Henry's going to be my man,
John Henry's going to be my man.

Where did you get your pretty li'l dress?
The shoes you wear so fine?
I got my shoes from a railroad man,
My dress from a man in the mine,
My dress from a man in the mine.

The "Long Steel Rail" (perhaps Norm Cohen could comment on this) is part of the "Ruben/Ruben's Train" family which include the related
Long Steel Rail; Train 45; Ruby (Are You Mad at Your Man?); Vestapol; Seventy Four; Nine Hundred Miles; Longest Train I Ever Saw; Train Is Off the Track; One Hundred Miles songs.

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Stewie
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 01:39 AM

Richie,

Some other bits and pieces related to material raised earlier in this thread:

1. Harpgirl posted Wilmer Watts & The Lonely Eagles' version of 'Banjo Sam' in this thread CLICK HERE The penultimate stanza that she gives, beginning 'I went a-fishin' an' fished for a shad', is not from the Wilmer Watts version, but a stanza from 'Lulu' in Brown 'North Carolina Folklore III, 222. Norm Cohen who gives the transcription in the marvellous booklet for 'Paramount Oldtime Tunes' was unable to decipher the last 2 lines of the final stanza - and who could blame him:

Throwed my hook ..... shad
.................. my old dad
Throwed my hook in the middle of the hole
Catfish got my hook and pole
Hello Banjo Sam

In relation to the 'Lulu' stanza from Brown III, Cohen noted that the editors of 'North Carolina Folklore III' discuss whether 'ad' or 'dad' is correct, the latter referring somehow to the grandaddy of all fish. Cohen goes on: 'Dan Emmett's composition titled 'Old Dad', published in 1844, leaves no doubt in my mind that "dad" is the original locution, though whether it is indeed a fish, or a father, or some other stock minstrel figure is not clear to me. The fourth stanza of "Old Dad" is related to one stanza of Wilmer Watts' "Banjo Sam":

My mudder once did 'spres a wish
Dat I should go and cotch some fish
I bate my hook to cotch a shad
But the first fish bit was my old dad [Nathan, 446]'

Cohen also noted: 'The "banjo walk, banjo talk" verses are reminiscent of "Jawbone" by Pope's Arkansas Mountaineers (Victor 21577) ... and Carter Bros & Son (Okeh 45289). On the former the words are "Jawbone walk, jawbone talk/Jawbone eat with a knife and fork". "De Old Jawbone" was also a composition of Dan Emmett, published in 1840, but whether it was the source of the minstrel song or borrowed from an earlier folksong is not obvious'.

2. In John Fahey's transcription of Patton's 'Dry Well Blues', your missing line in stanza four is: 'The old weather done come in, parched all the cotton and corn'. The Fahey transcription varies in a number of places from the one you posted, but he is defeated completely by the first 2 lines of the final stanza. I can post the Fahey transcription if you would like it.

3. A transcription of Roscoe Holcomb's version of 'Hook & Line' is given in John Cohen's booklet accompanying the LP version of 'High Lonesome Sound' Folkways FA 2368. There are some blanks here also - it beats me why Cohen didn't simply ask Roscoe what he was singing:

HOOK AND LINE

Gimme the hook and gimme the line
Gimme that gal you call mine

Sal went a-fishing on a hot summer day
.............. over, and the fish got away
Throw away the hook and give away the line
.................... fish some time

I'm goin' to California where they sleep out every night (x2)
You low down woman, you sure don't treat me right

Source: transcription in booklet for Roscoe Holcomb 'The High Lonesome Sound' Folkways FA 2368. This is also reissued on CD: Roscoe Holcomb 'The High Lonesome Sound' Smithsonian/Folkways SFCD 40079.

John Cohen noted that, according to Roscoe and other eastern Kentucky musicians, 'Hook & Line' was the most popular banjo tune used for square dancing in that locale. It was affectionately known as 'Hook and String' and was also a fiddle piece. The Library of Congress check list gives 5 recordings from 1937 and 1938, all from East Kentucky. Roscoe's performance was as he played it for dances. He said that when everyone would get real tired, he'd break into the old Jimmie Rodgers tune, 'California Blues' ('Blue Yodel #4), and the dancers would get tickled, start laughing and find new strength to dance on. [Info from John Cohen's notes for 'High Lonesome Sound'].

There is another Kentucky version of 'Hook and Line' by Bill Cornett on Various Artists 'Mountain Music of Kentucky' Smithsonian/Folkways SFCD 40077.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM

Here's more info on 'Old Dad' and related tunes:

Old Dad first appeared in printed form in an 1844 collection by Dan Emmett called, Old Dan Emmett's Original Banjo Melodies, Second Series. Emmett used the tune, put his own words to it, and called it Old Dad, which is how it is known today in southwest Virginia.

Emmett did not claim the song as his own composition and, though the words may well be his, it is likely that the tune was already well-known, and may in fact be of British origin. Krassen (1983) says the title "Old Dad" appears to be local to Grayson County, (Southwestern) Va. Interestingly, the famous Norwegian classical violinist Ole Bull, who concertized during several tours to the United States in the mid-19th century, lent his name to the Ole Bull Violin Instruction Book; A Complete School for the Violin....., published in 1845, which contains (among the "Ethiopian Melodies") a tune called "Old Dad." Bull was known to play fiddle tunes as encores to his performances, and often featured regional pieces from his concert venues, though it is not known whether he played "Old Dad" or not.

Other names for the tune include "Stony Point," "Wild Horse," "Wild Horses at Stony Point," "Buck Creek Girls," "Booker's Bluff," and the most common title among northern fiddlers: "The Pigtown Fling."

Stony Point may refer to a battle of the same name fought during the American Revolution on July 15, 1779. The earliest link of that title with this particular tune is a Civil War era publication called Winner's Music of the Dance (1866), where the tune is called Stony Point Reel. Given the connection with Dan Emmett and the minstrel stage, Stony Point (or, Old Dad) must have been quite popular with Civil War fiddlers.

Buck Creek Gals is a southwest Virginia, eastern Kentucky, Arkansas tune in the repertoire of Fiddlin' Cowan Powers 1877-1952 (Russell County, southwestern Va.) and recorded by him in 1924 for Victor, though not issued. The title appears in a list of traditional Ozark Mountain fiddle tunes compiled by musicologist/folklorist Vance Randolph, published in 1954. To Randolph, who says Ozark fiddlers consider the tune "ancient and difficult to play," the tune "sounds like common old 'Stoney Point.'" Wolfe (1982) identifies a tune by this title as a driving banjo tune recorded in the 1920's by eastern Kentucky musicians.

Pigtown Fling is the common New England title for this widely known tune, although it was collected by Shaw in Colorado as "Pigtown Hoe Down." It is called "Pigtown" in County Donegal, Ireland, where it is played as a highland, although Perlman (1979) says it was originally a Co. Kerry polka, also called "Pigtown." Linscott (1939) identifies this tune as "an Irish reel sometimes known as 'Keltons.'" Chet Parker, a hammered dulcimer player from western New York, called it "Buffalo Breakdown."

"Wild Horse" was another NC, Va, name to the tune. Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers recorded "Wild Horse" on Columbia 15279-D in1926, released later on County 509, "Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers, Vol. 2"

Does anyone have Emmett's original lyrics to "Old Dad" ?

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr. Req: Hook and Line
From: Richie
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 10:59 PM

Well, I have to admit working on this thread got me in a fishin' mood, so I got on my Ranger boat and went to a local lake, it was a beautiful 60 degree day so I baited my hook with a shad and along came this huge, grandad bass and well... I had 'em but my fishpole broke and I got mad... And down to the bottom went old Grandad.
(I really did go fishing!)


Thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread, I've learned something now as usual have more questions than before.

Here's a roustabout version:

This was a cotton-loading coonjine song heard frequently on the docks at New Orleans by the black roustabouts that worked on the steamboat.

Catfish swimmin' in de river
Nigger wid a hook and line
Says de catfish, Lookyere, Nigger,
You ain' got me dis time.

Come on, bale (spoken) - got yuh!

Notes: From COONJINE IN MANHATTAN- 1939

-Richie


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hook and Line (and related songs)
From: GUEST,Bill
Date: 20 Mar 07 - 03:36 PM

Looking for lyrics to: "We'll All Go Down to Rouser's", "My Father and Mother Were Irish", "Old Man's Dead", and "Granny Will Your Dog Bite".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hook and Line (and related songs)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:23 PM

HOOK AND LINE

Hook and line to catch a shad,
First think I caught was my old dad.

Pole broke and I got mad,
Right to the bottom went my old dad!

Shout a nickel, shout a dime,
Shout little Lulu any old time.

Shout little Lulu, shout your best,
Your old grandmother's in a hornet's nest!
(Spoken:) Yes sir!

Shout, shout, shout, shout!
What in hell are you shoutin' about?


Source: Old-Time Mountain Banjo (p. 11), by Art Rosenbaum

It's the first tune in Rosenbaum's tutor, though in short order he progresses it from brush-thumb to a more typical basic frail, including hammering on and pulling off. He uses a double C tuning (gCGCD, aka. C modal). Of course, you could capo/tune to double D (aDADE).


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