BS: What have the Irish ever done for us

Subject: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Mad Ma
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 07:55 AM

Well does anyone else think they are overrated? A decent beer (G) and a couple of good tunes and songs. Hardly conquering the world is it?

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Search for "done for us" threads

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Declan
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 08:03 AM

Ask not what the Irish have done for you, ask what you have done for the Irish !

A paraphrase from one of the people (JFK) the Irish have given to US!

We may not have conquered the world (yet!) but for a small island we've managed to have a fair amount of influence in many parts of it.

But not as much as 'ull 9as.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: mack/misophist
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 10:19 AM

My mother and my wife will never cease to thank the Irish for one of their inventions, although I tend to think it's a little over-rated....soap. The Romans thought it was dangerous, the Irish thought the Romans were dirty. And that's how it all started.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,The O'Meara
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:21 AM

The Irish have given us:
40 million of our citizens
John Kennedy, Chester Arthur, James Buchanan, Andrew Jackson, Ronald Reagan, etc.,
The roots of much of our traditional music,
The workers who built many of our big buildings and all of our railroads,
Guiness, Harp, Bushmill's and Jameson,
Celts,
Boston,
The soldiers in most of our wars,
Barry Fitzgerald
Ella Fitzgerald (well, maybe not...)
The Irish Tenors,
The biggest non-holiday celebration in the world,
Priests, cops, firemen, lawyers; the glue that holds our society together,
Halloween,
The Clancy Brothers, Dennis Day, Carmel Quinn, Tommy Makem, Seamus Kennedy etc,
Dance,
Conversation and literature,
A few million other things,
and me.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Mur
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 11:34 AM

What have the Irish ever done for us? To find your answer all you need to do is to read the long list of policemen & firefighters who lost their lives on 9/11. A very high percentage of those brave people had Irish names.   No greater love......
Mur

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:12 PM

And don't forget DeForest Kelly! Otherwise known as Doctor "Bones" McCoy. Definitely one of the oddest actors of all time...but, man, could he raise an eyebrow!!!

Also, without the Irish we would never have had Eric Bogle's song "Plastic Paddy", not to mention green beer.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:14 PM

My Daddy came from Belfast, I think that's a plus, you can think what you like. You filthy rotten swine you.

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:28 PM

G B Shaw, W B Yeats, R B Sheridan, Dean Swift etc, etc, etc.
Jim McLean

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Gareth
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:31 PM

Green Beer ???? Hmmmm !!! CLICK 'ERE

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: DougR
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:39 PM

John McCormick
Sean O'Casey
James Joyce
Christopher Lynch
Ernest Ball (I think)
John Ford
Francis Ford
and what The O'Meara said.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Bert
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 06:03 PM

Big Mick

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Just Amy
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 06:43 PM

The extremely potable and delicious Pierce Brosnan! Yum!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Just Amy
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 07:09 PM

Did I say Pierce Brosnan?

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Alice
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 08:24 PM

How The Irish Saved Civilization a very interesting history of the preservation and dissemination of historic written texts.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 10:05 PM

Ireland has given several of my friends a place to go every Summer so they can bore me to tears talking about it for the rest of the friggin' year! Maybe next year they'll get on the wrong plane and wind up in Hull.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: weerover
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 01:20 AM

What Jim McLean said plus Beckett, Joyce and Jameson's

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: alanabit
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:02 AM

Why has Oscar Wilde's name not appeared on this thread yet? One should also add that Ireland have remained undefeated against England at football for over fourteen years - which is gratifying to Scots and Welshmen. It has also given thousands of tenth generation Americans an absurd excuse to make bogus claims about their nationality!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:41 AM

The Dubliners and Terrorists, (Both Loyalist and Republican)

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:42 AM

30 years of Murder and death on both sides

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:55 AM

Possibly inventing reels(but it might have been the Scots). Definitely not jigs and hornpipes.
Contributing an appreciable input to the rich tapestry of American folk music(but not "much" "most"of it).
Conquering and retaining the majority of Scotland, to this day (not always the downtrodden nation).
Being extremely adept at creating myths about itself.
Holding up the flame for better food, better farming. more civiised company, more wit, more extraordinary road signs, some very close friends, my daughters boy friend, a load of music and musicians that I worship, Guiness Murphys Beamish(but not that awful red stuff)sea food west cork east cork north cork south cork cork city I could write all day but I wont.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: mooman
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:56 AM

An excuse for Guests to post stupid nonsense.

Apart from that, innumerable positive things.

moo

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 07:02 AM

Tell that to the thousands who were killed and their families that 30 years of Murder and death is nonsense

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: mooman
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 07:27 AM

Idiot Anonymous Guest,

You are patently trolling.

For every person of either side (lets just call them callous violent bigots rather than "Irish" please) who has engaged in any act of terrorism or murder there are many thousands of Irish people who have no part or interest in violence whatsoever.

So go and take your pointless trolling and stupid generalizations elsewhere. Expect no further response from me

mooman (Irish, citizen of the world, human being, and trying hard not to lose my temper)

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 07:37 AM

I'm glad someone saw fit to remember James Joyce ,but the shoe not dropped would be the Irish contribution to Literature & Poetry.
Seamus Heaney won the Noel Prize for Literature/Poetry in the early 90's.
Then lest we forget master actors of the english word in the likes of now-eparted Richard Harris & Peter O'Toole.

Even more important though was the saving of recorded written knowledge , and thus "civilization" itself , by the Irish monks while the rest of Europe was plunged in destroying one another in a centuries-long orgy of multiple Warlord-militarism during the appropriately named "Dark Ages" where literacy ,forget actual writing skills, wasn't exactly included as a "survival skill".
True the Germans perfected the Euro-version of Chinese printing by sohpisticating its engineering into the mechanical press ,but where would they be without the original templates of knowledge preserved by the dutiful hands of those Irish monks' fineart of calligraphy.
Considering that Thomas Jefferson declared that he preferred a nation with a free press and no gov't than one with gov't but no free press ,the improtance of the written word becomes a wee more apparent and the Irish have most certainly given us a far more enriched literature .

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 07:44 AM

If the Irish hadn't existed, they would have had to be invented.

Guest, I feel sorry for you. You apparently can't let go of hate anymore than some of Provos and Unionists can. But if you want to look at "30 years of Murder and death," you might also want to look at the 800 preceeding years. I suggest that you look especially hard at the middle of the 17th Century.... Or look up the Penal Laws. Or go to West Cork and visit the Famine pits in the graveyards. Or ask yourself why artillery was used in Dublin in 1916 when tear gas was available. Or look into the Black and Tans.

What I find amazing is that the Irish -- and I have relatives by marriage in Cork, Dingle, and Dublin and have met many more on numerous trips there -- are not more vengeful. These days the bulk of them seem to want to see the Good Friday Accords work.

Guest, you are anonymous, which makes me suspect a certain lack of courage. I suspect, though, that you are from the UK. Without meaning any offense, I must point out that England's government was responsible not only for making a mess of governing Ireland, but for such other events as the Highland Clearances, the removal of the Acadians, giving smallpox-infected blankets to the American Indians, shooting down protesting Indian Indians....

Guest, you also make the mistake of assuming that the troubles in Northern Ireland are the fault of the Irish. They aren't, unless Northern Ireland is no longer part of the United Kingdom....

What have the Irish ever done for us? Others have been eloguent on the subject. As far as I'm concerned -- there's my wife....

As the Aleut story tellers say, "That is all."

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: weerover
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 08:25 AM

Agree with the sensible responses to Guest (and their tone) - we don't need shouting matches here

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 08:28 AM

I think that the Irish, are a great people and that Guest who wrote about the murder and many thousnds that died has point, however if guest upsets people then he should go away.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:06 AM

I tried to stay away but Rapaire with respect you are way off wrt the troubles in Ireland. If you confine it to just the North you have an amazing lack of understanding.

Ever heard of Charles Haughey, the former Taoiseach,who got caught up in the arms to the IRA scandal in 1970, just an example for the point I'm trying to make. We all have to accept our fair share of blame for the troubles in N.Ireland from the leaders to the man on the street north and south of the border.

There is hardly a country in this world were an Irish man has not been involved in some kind of construction,music,literature or other enterprise to the betterment of all. To accept our part of good to the world we have to accept our failings and hiding behind half truths only demeans the great achievements and contributions of others.

I just realised have I stuck up for guest,if so sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: mooman
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:12 AM

There is hardly a country in this world were an Irish man has not been involved in some kind of construction,music,literature or other enterprise to the betterment of all. To accept our part of good to the world we have to accept our failings and hiding behind half truths only demeans the great achievements and contributions of others.

I can live with this as it isn't a blanket condemnation as implied by some.

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Guest Mad Ma
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:41 AM

I would like to distance myself from the "other guest". I agree with Ireland comments (2 above) I started this thread not to begin any arguments. I am Irish, and wanted to find out international opinion of us outside the fighting drunken stupid paddy stereotype.

MadMa

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:23 AM

I am quite aware of the problems in the South as well as in the North of Ireland. I've also expressed the opinion that if the Celtic Tiger continues to roar as it has, the problem of the Six Counties will be solved by purchase, not guns.

My own country, the United States, has had its share in the Troubles, too.

I'd like to see everyone let go of their hate and give peace a chance.

Mad Ma, I respect the Irish and find the stereotypical picture of the Irish absurd. I got a huge laugh out of being in Dublin on St. Patrick's Day, 1978, with a bunch of Knights of Columbus. Most of them seemed to think that it was going to be a day of drunken revelry...after church, after the parade, they discovered WHEN the pubs closed.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:28 AM

When I saw this thread I thought here we go,how long will it take someone to turn a well meaning thread into a political rant. What we have given the world or have our fair supply of is people who can start a fight in an empty room.

Without the desire to offend why did the likes of Oscar Wilde, Wellington etc put their Irishness on the back burner many of our literary greats adopted the mantle of the English upper classes. Some even out Englished the English in their accents and mannerisms, as I say nothing to offend just a funny point. Did we give the world contraryness?

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:32 AM

There is no country on earth that doesn't have a history of violence. However, one of the nicer things about these threads is that people more or less agreed in other ones to steer clear of the contentious stuff, and not get so emotionally charged. Some people, like Guest and Ireland apparently, only see the Irish in one dimension: that of the Troubles.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if, for once, people would just be allowed to discuss things Irish without all the Troubles crap? I'm not saying don't post anything negative about the Irish. I'm just saying, check the Troubles and drunken, violent stereotypes at the door for once, and concentrate on the whole of Ireland and all of the Irish, rather than those people like Guest and Ireland choose to focus on whenever they post to threads with the "I" words in the title.

Just a thought, echoing McGrath's (I think) in another "what have the...threads".

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:55 AM

Sorry to disagree again, the celtic tiger has turned into a celtic kitten,the boom that you talk about came at a price the Irish government is up to it's neck in debt.

For a laugh read this Celtic Tiger

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:59 AM

Idiot Anonymous Guest,

You are patently trolling.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:09 AM

Second thoughts Guest I do not need this shit in my life, you have been rumbled by Big Mick in other threads,and from the shadows you snipe with your brand of crap. Now you stoop to condemning yourself while you have ago at me. Bet your lonely cause I cannot see how anyone would converse with you in person, but you impose yourself on message boards.

You are dragging this thread into the mucky place you dwell in I'll not help you, g'wan f--k off, some chance.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Declan
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:16 AM

The death of the Celtic tiger has been widely acknowledged by most people who know anything about the Irish economy for about a year now. However the Irish National debt has fallen dramatically in the last 15 years. While there is a slowdown in growth in the economy, and as a result cutbacks in Government expenditure, it is continuing to grow at a slower rate.

The article linked to above, written by someone who I have never heard of, is giving a very predjudiced view of the state of the Irish economy and while I wouldn't necessarily totally disagree with all of what is said in the article, I wouldn't view it as either a very well researched or reasoned article. "I have no idea what the bosses have done" - you'd think someone who thought themselves fit to write a commentary would have gone and found out.

If you want a balanced view of whats happening in Ireland, I would repectfully suggest that you're likely to find it in places other than the site you've linked us to here.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:33 AM

Declan I did say for a laugh. I have forgotten the source but this is what I am on about.

Opposition parties in the Republic of Ireland are demanding a full statement from the Irish Finance minister amid warnings that the national debt could reach €40 billion next year.
The Economic and Social Research Institute has said that the figure is in addition to the €500 million in borrowings that will be needed to balance the public finances before the end of this year.

Labour`s Brendan Howlin has said that it is time Charlie McCreevy came clean.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:36 AM

Well for starters Paddy and Mick have given us lots to laugh at.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:39 AM

Frank Carson, sorry if he has been mentioned before.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:47 AM

John Keane, Padraic Colum, Peig Sayers....

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:02 PM

On behalf of all Irishmen I would like to apologise for the following:

1. Harp, surely one of the worst lagers in the world, mind you I think that we have atoned enough by making Guinness.

and

2. Pierce Brosnan, surely one of the most wooden actors of all time.

Anyways apart from that were brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:13 PM

Ireland this is also a music Site, please contribute to a musuc thread or are you here to constantly stick your nose in and while your at it give it a wipe.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: mooman
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:18 PM

Model fan behaviour at international sporting events...

Cara Dillon (Oh yes...definitely Cara!)

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:31 PM

The interesting thing is that, apart from the trolling efforts of one of the several anonymous GUESTS who have popped up on this thread (it really gets bloody confusing you obtuse eejits), the tone has been so enthusiastic.

The general pattern with these threads - eg (USA, Dutch, Belgium...)is that the compliments are accompanied by a fair number of sneers and raspberries, and we haven't had those here. I suppose now I've said that, someone is going to leap in to provide them.

As for the troubles and the stuff associated with that, fair enough to raise this, because it's part of the picture. But it is better to see it as part of the picture, the way Ireland puts it, rather than just thrown into the conversation from cover by some faceless wimp.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 01:43 PM

We gave the world the dunkle, place were guest slid from.

The comedians who took Canada by storm at the comedy festival. Want to hear what they say about you yanks, oh something awful.

The guy who built the pyramids paddy McPahro.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 02:51 PM

Don't forget that great man Paddy O'Furniture.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 04:21 PM

The great constellation of O'Ryan the Hunter.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: mooman
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 04:26 PM

Not to mention Patti O'Doors....

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 04:32 PM

And the Formula 1 driver Sean O'Lacey

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: bazza
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 04:42 PM

Lots of people including me ,apparently 60%of the English have irish blood in them .The british colonized the world Paddy populated it

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Barney McCool
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 05:26 AM

Belfast applying for, THE CITY OF CULTURE,well we all need a wee giggle now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Mad Ma
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 05:47 AM

Barney,

Seeing as yopu brought it up, don't forget

Cork - European City of Culture in 2005

MadMa

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: IanN
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 05:58 AM

Credit for "inventing" Guinness. No credit at all for then turning it into the insipid, pastuerised, over chilled rubbish that now passes for what was once a great beverage (apart from bottled Guinness Extra which still resembles something with taste). And another thing, there's absoloutely no need for the two-stage pour - it's a marketing gimmick.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Declan
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:08 AM

Ian N,

I agree with you about the chilling, but round about here Guinness isn't Pasteurised and is all the better for it.

And the two stage pour is absolutely essential to get a decent pint of it. If you slopped up Guinness in one go in this country the way I've seen it done in some pubs in England, you'd probably get a punch in the nose. And you'd deserve it.

I'm currently suffering from the effects of far too much of the stuff last night. The things we do to ourselves in the name of enjoyment!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:17 AM

o'cano- a construction set closely modelled on the scootish McCano.

the irish c

Mick Donalds

o'neills tune book

pat o'cake,pat o'cake, bakers man

irish whine- notably jimmy's son's & butch mills

bing crosby songs

a language that the strangers do not konw

sharon shannon

percy french

john mccormick

to be or not to be sure!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:20 AM

Let's not forget the Rose of Tralee Festival, an oogler's paradise.

Or Kerrygold lorries, which, by blazing down the middle of the road from Inch Strand to Dingle, have caused innumberable people to repent.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Ireland
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:36 AM

Know what you mean,nearly fertilized a few fields myself while there 2 years ago.

Big aggy down the road
Mucker
what about ye
As fast as two men and a little boy
all kinds of sayings,wee lad.

Year 2525 is that the right title? yer man from Bally castle 'o' wrote it.

The Irish sea

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: IanN
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:38 AM

Ahh Declan

Until about 2-4 years ago Guinness in Ireland was brewed as a "real" ale & was cask-conditioned & dispensed via the gravity method (rather than the trad. English handpump). Irish Guinness is now brewed as a keg beer and kep under a blanket of nitrogen to keep it "fresh" & is pasteurised to kill any "live" products left following the brewing process. The only difference between Irish Guinness & the Guinness brewed in London & Warrington is the water used.

When Guinness was real the two, or even three, stage pouring process helped settle the beer (it's never been strictly necessary but with gravity dispense it is harder to control the flow that with a hand-pump). Now it is dispensed via Nitrokeg there is nothing to settle. By dispensing into the side of a glass the build up of froth is minimised & there is no need for a two-stage pouring process (a head still develops as a consequnce of the nitrogen). I had an argument with a seasoned Guiness drinker over this so I poured one pint "traditionally" & one in one go & he couldn't tell the difference.

I used to drink a lot of Guinness but I decided to limit myself to 3 meals a day!

Incidently, the best pint of Guinness I ever had was in Paris!! I wasn't fortunate enough to visit Ireland when they still brewed it "real".

Slainte!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:54 AM

Maureen O'Sullivan's 'Welsh' accent in How green Was My Valley.

BJ

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Declan
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 08:00 AM

I'll take your word for it on the brewing process Ian, I am no expert on the process, alhough I am very familiar with the end product.

I remember going to England for the first time in the early 80s and discovering how different (and horrible to my taste) the Guinness was there compared to Dublin (and the locals assured me this was a comparitively good pint). I was informed that the difference was that Dublin Porter was brewed with Liffey Water, which led me to think that these people must never have seen (or smelled) the Liffey !
As a total aside I overheard someone saying on a bus the other day that they had met some US tourists in Dublin for Paddy's day who were very impressed that the river had been died Green for the Festival. (It hadn't!)

Whatever changes they have made to the process seems to have standardised the quality of pints a lot more. Its harder to get an exceptionally nice pint, but the bad ones (and they can be really disgusting) are much fewer now as well.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: HuwG
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:01 AM

Reading histories of Britain's relations with Ireland, I hope that the Irish have given us a conscience when it comes to history. I don't think there is a nation on Earth than can claim never to have committed crimes against humanity, but (contrary to Hegel) I think it possible to learn from the victims, rather than accept the glib statement that history is written by the victors.

Phew ! Got that off my chest ..


I do enjoy Guinness, in moderation (after about five or six pints, it tends rather to act as mental ballast);

I also enjoy much Irish music (instrumental and sung). However, there are a number of songs, from both sides of the sectarian divide in Northern Ireland which I would not sing, and which, for their expressed sentiments and provocative use, I would put in the same class as the "Horst Wessel Lied" [that said, the most offensive thing I ever sung was The Ould Orange Flute, which has the virtue of offending both sides equally.

(Other than undergoing Northern Ireland training, while in the forces briefly, the "Troubles" have affected me indirectly; a good friend had to leave Northern Ireland, after she replied to a question from Gerry Adams as he was touring an art gallery, and received several bullets in the post.)

------

Note that whatever the Irish have given us, it should be remembered that they took St. Patrick from Wales in the first place.

------

My favourite screen dialogue, from Blazing Saddles

Howard Johnson : Who are all these people anyway ?
Bart (Sherriff of Rock Ridge) : They're just ordinary poor people; Negroes, Chinese, Irish. All they want is to settle down, make a home for themselves, earn a decent living. What would it cost you to let them stay ?
Howard Johnson : OK, OK, we'll let the negroes and the Chinamen stay ... but we won't have the Irishmen !

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: IanN
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:05 AM

I was in Dublin a couple of weekends ago for a wedding & had been looking forward to trying some decent Guinness (you're right that bad pints are very frequent over here & I tend not to drink Guinness anymore). The wedding was in a hotel (the Four Seasons, Ballsbridge) so I wasn't entirely suprised that the ale wasn't up to much. I then thought I'd better try a pint somewhere else (purely for reasons of research you understand) so I went to O'Donaghues (I was told that was where ther Dubliner's drank so I figured it should be a decent pint) but to be honest I couldn't tell the difference.

I think I'll stick to real stouts & porters from now on - there are many good ones available over here if you know where to go.

Overall though Dublin was great - the people were nearly as friendly as in my favourite city, Glasgow!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Mr Happy
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:15 AM

my grandaddy who sailed over with horses from castleblaney, co. monaghan to liverpool, met grandma & the rest is history!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 11:05 AM

My sympathies with those people who, like myself, have to drink Guinness in foreign parts. Its never quite the match of an Irish pint. By the way when I say Irish, I mean one poured anywhere outside Dublin.

Slainte

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: IanN
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 11:13 AM

Allan see my above message - it's no different in Ireland!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,The O'Meara
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 02:00 PM

1. Maureen O'Hara

2. Went to Ireland in '85. Guiness was a whole new category of drinking substance, there was nothing else near it. The locals said "Guiness doesn't cross water." They were right. Sorry to hear it's taken the same uniformly neutral path as McDonalds hambugers. I'd rather take my chances on an occasional bad pint.

3. What the Irish and the Scots have done best over the years is to leave Ireland and Scotland. They are really good at it.

O'Meara

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,The Burren Ranger
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 08:38 AM

have I missed the following in the above lists ?
U2...Van The Man...Enya...Solas...Richard Harris...Jameson Whiskey....Billy The Kid...Jessie James....John Philip Holland (inventor of the Submarine)...Mohamed Ali (his Grandfather was a John O'Grady from Ennis in Co. Clare)...
more anon...
TBR

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Barney McCool
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 03:44 PM

Burke and Hare, aghhhhhh

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,The Burren Ranger
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 04:45 PM

..and how could we forget Bram Stoker (who gave us Dracula)...Shakleton (The Sth Pole Explorer)....Samuel Beckett...
more anon..

TRB...
PS: Burke & Hare??...Scots, surely.....

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:01 AM

John Spillane from Cork, one of the very best of the newer batch of singers. I'm off to see him playing in Copenhagen tomorrow. Yippeee!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Miken
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:47 AM

Frank O'Conner, Edna O'Brien, Sean O'Faolain. J.M.Synge

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,The Burren Ranger
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 05:48 AM

Allan,
Yeeeess!   John Spillane!!...his album ' Wells of the World' is one of the best Irish albums of the 90's. I agree...he's A STAR in the making...
TBR

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: belfast
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 08:54 AM

Brian O'Nolan, Flann O'Brien, Myles na gCopaleen. To name but one.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Marc
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 09:17 AM

WHISKEY!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Gerard Farrelly Dublin
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 09:40 AM

This Tiny Little Island hasn't given much to the world apart from - saints, scholars, writers, actors, artists, musicians, labour and a sence of how to enjoy life when one has had very little for such a long time. All this, out of the many years of oppression through to the present day. Yes we are a 'fighting people' in a host of many ways.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Barney McCool
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 02:59 PM

Sorry Burren Ranger, but the two body-snatchers were Irish, Burke and Hare,no doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Barney McCool
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 03:02 PM

Not forgetting big Aggie Dunwoody up our street the best coort from Delilah.

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:13 AM

Hi Ireland,

I think Wellington put his "Irishness" a bit further than the back burner if his quotation on the subject is anything to go by:

Someone once in passing referred to the Duke of Wellington as being Irish. His reply was, "Just because a man is born in a stable does not necessarily make him a horse."

Subject: RE: BS: What have the Irish ever done for us
From: GUEST,Philip II
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:15 AM

Many of them took pity of my ill-fated Spanish sailors on the Western shores. God bless the Irish for that.
By the way, Captain Cuellar mentioned the Irish girls were beautiful...(oh, I'll have to hear mass again today, a priest, a priest!)