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BS: Its' official Bush is a moron

DougR 23 Nov 02 - 06:38 PM
Bobert 23 Nov 02 - 06:44 PM
Rick Fielding 23 Nov 02 - 07:00 PM
catspaw49 23 Nov 02 - 07:08 PM
Amergin 23 Nov 02 - 07:30 PM
DougR 23 Nov 02 - 07:54 PM
kendall 23 Nov 02 - 10:44 PM
DonMeixner 23 Nov 02 - 11:08 PM
Joe Offer 23 Nov 02 - 11:39 PM
Bobert 23 Nov 02 - 11:45 PM
DougR 24 Nov 02 - 12:10 AM
Amos 24 Nov 02 - 12:15 AM
Little Hawk 24 Nov 02 - 12:22 AM
Little Hawk 24 Nov 02 - 12:32 AM
Boab 24 Nov 02 - 03:43 AM
Metchosin 24 Nov 02 - 04:33 AM
Genie 24 Nov 02 - 04:39 AM
Metchosin 24 Nov 02 - 05:18 AM
DougR 24 Nov 02 - 07:45 AM
Willie-O 24 Nov 02 - 07:56 AM
kendall 24 Nov 02 - 09:44 AM
Amos 24 Nov 02 - 09:47 AM
mmb 24 Nov 02 - 10:08 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 24 Nov 02 - 11:27 AM
Little Hawk 24 Nov 02 - 12:01 PM
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Bobert 03 Dec 02 - 02:49 PM
Amos 03 Dec 02 - 05:12 PM
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Subject: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 06:38 PM

No, I didn't post this to bitch about the Canadian government official calling Bush a moron. I want to propose that we make Francois Ducros an honorary Mudcatter! So many catters share her opinion of Bush, it seems only the right thing to do. Also, her morale could probably use a boost about now, and that just might do the trick.

Rick, how about you or one of your fellow Canadian catters trying to find a way to present her with a Mudcat T-shirt? I'll pay for it, if you will present it. :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 06:44 PM

Ahhhh, yir Freudian slip is showin' there, Doug.

But gotta agree with ya' about Bush. You've finally convinced me. You win, dog gone it...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 07:00 PM

DOUG....YOU LEAVE ME THE FRIGGGGG OUTTA THIS!! I'm probably already on a dozen FBI lists, for even KNOWING Little Hawk, and I'm sure the RCMP, knew that I lived in a rooming house 30 years ago where there was "suspected drug activity"!

As far as I'm concerned, George Dubya Bush would give Einstein a run for his money intellectually!

(well maybe Dan Quale actually)

Just kidding

Honest

"Oh say can you.....

Rick


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 07:08 PM

Sorry Doug, but in a press release, the Moronic Officials Of Kingdom States (MOOKS), also raised an issue and lodged a formal complaint against Canada as well. They state that they are a basically harmless organization and that a Moron with an agenda compromises the generally stupid but reasonably harmless position of Mooks everywhere.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amergin
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 07:30 PM

yeah you should listen, him, Doug....Ole Spaw's quite an authority on such matters....BG


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 07:54 PM

Shucks shoot, Rick, you're no fun. I've already warned the Mounties to keep an eye on all you left-wing Canadians already. You really have LITTLE to risk! :>)

L.H., how about you? You seem the adventurous type.

Mooks huh? Maybe I better get the FBI to look into them too. *G*

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: kendall
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 10:44 PM

Just remember Doug, Time wounds all heels.
Actually, I can't say he is a moron. What he is is a guy who desperatly needs to succeed at something. He has failed at everything he has put his hand to.His latest failure, the war on terrorism.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DonMeixner
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 11:08 PM

Bush may be a Moron but Ashcroft is the Anti-Christ and will lead us all to literal and spiritual ruin.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 11:39 PM

Doug, I'm really proud that you've come to see the light, and that you'd start a thread like this...
Yes, he IS a moron. Makes Dan Quayle look like a Mensa candidate.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 02 - 11:45 PM

Ya' know Joe, that ain't Menza but Mensa!

Jus' funnin' with ya.

Heck, I don't have a clue hoe that stuff is spelled. All I know is that I'm a onth late in paying my dues. See, they'll take anyone these days who has a pulse...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:10 AM

Uh, Joe. I'm only acting as reporter here. I didn't say I agreed with her. Personally I think Bush is a moron like a fox.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:15 AM

Doug --

Explain the fox part, wouldja?

I am really curious to know what it is you see that looks like applied intelligence on his part.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:22 AM

(Chuckle!...snort!) Doug, you are my favorite conservative, cos you have a good sense of humor....

I think this little brouhaha is damned funny. Chretien, of course, is falling all over himself trying to repair the "damage", and making a big deal out of what is actually the sort of thing that happens all the time off camera. He doesn't want to sack a possibly useful employee, but he doesn't want to look anti-Bush either. Ah, the glorious hypocrisies and shameless ass-covering we find in politics!

You should hear what they say when the microphones are turned off! Rick could tell a few tales about that...but he is far too judicious to do so...

Still lookin' for gigs south of the border, eh, Rick? :-)

I jest. Hey, man, there was "suspected drug activity" just about EVERYWHERE 30 years ago. Illegal drugs, I mean. As for legal ones, well, they are a complete epidemic at this point. The War on Drugs is probably the most unsuccessful war of all time, except maybe for Saddam's attempt to take Kuwait and hold it.

So, Doug, you want me to present Francois Ducros with a Mudcat T-shirt? Well...I would...but I'm busy right now trying to set up a discreet weekend with Diana Rigg. Oops! Wasn't sposed to talk about that... Okay, I didn't say that...I meant...um...I have to "feed the pigs" is what I meant to say. Yeah, that's it.

But I think you're right. She does deserve at least a T-shirt (Ducros, I mean. Diana Rigg deserves anything she bloody well wants!). I'll think about how I can fit it into my schedule.

I'm going on a trip to Trinidad shortly, for 3 weeks, so you won't have me to kick the political Right around any more for awhile...

But I should be back by mid-December if all goes as expected, so hang in there... :-)

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:32 AM

Amos - Well, I know it's debatable, but Bush has proven rather foxy in winning a very disputed election (as we all know) in 2000, and in gaining control of Congress in 2002.

This may, of course, prove less about Bush than it does about how disorganized and rudderless the Democrats are. Like I said, it's debatable.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Boab
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 03:43 AM

I think if the Lady had chosen to pinpoint the moronic content of the Bush mob, a good wide spread of paint spray would have resulted in a whole platoon of brightly coloured morons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 04:33 AM

speaking of slips, when I first looked at this thread I thought it read "Bush is a mormon".


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Genie
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 04:39 AM

DonMeixner ("Bush may be a Moron but Ashcroft is the Anti-Christ..."  Nah.  It's Jerry Falwell.  I'm convinced.

LH, off to Trinidad shortly, for 3 weeks, eh?  Awww!  POOR BABY!!!
But you're right about that off-camera stuff.  Why is the public so "Shocked!  Just shocked!" when a microphone happens to catch a glimpse of the reality of politics?

 But I should be back by mid-December if all goes as expected, so hang in there... :-)

Yeah, Amos, I think Dubya, despite being intellectually challenged in some areas, is a lot smarter as a politician than lots of folks thought, and a lot smarter than some Dems I know.

Genie


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 05:18 AM

Sort of like the pot calling the kettle black, I think Ms. Ducros should loose her job for her inappropriate remark. What a stupid thing to say during that conference to a reporter. Her private opinions should be just that. Now I wonder if Chrétien will do the appropriate thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 07:45 AM

Metchosin: glasses. You need glasses! :>)

Amos: well, I think Bush has turned out to be a pretty effective persuader with our allies. I don't think a moron would be quite as effective.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Willie-O
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 07:56 AM

Hey, a moron can be just a few points below "dull normal". It's not like she called him an imbecile or an idiot.

But I agree it was an inappropriate remark for a chief of communications; in that job, you're not supposed to become the story. You're supposed to get the right spin out.

Since Chretien doesn't seem in any hurry to cosy up to Dubya personally, I wonder why he keeps indicating we're going to help invade Iraq. Fat lot of good it did us last time we joined one of those little parties. Got four of our own guys blown up by some cowboy sposed to be on our side.

Willie-O


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: kendall
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 09:44 AM

Bush finally apologized, under duress, for our "friendly fire" which killed a group of Canadian slodiers; But, did he ever even mention the Aussies killed in Bali by that bomb?


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 09:47 AM

Well I find him stupid in the extreme, and Ibelieve his elicitation of response has been through bully-boy tactics. I also think he is the most unpatriotic president we have ever had.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: mmb
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 10:08 AM

This is sort-of cross-posted, but is even more relevant here than on the thread where I posted it last night when I got in from John McCutcheon's Clearwater (FL) concert. His most recent topical material is posted to his website (www.folkmusic.com , with an mp3 icon in the left frame of the link to The Music) - and contains some of the abso-dam-lutely hysterical political stuff that had a packed house of 500 laughing, cheering, singing (nay, bellowing!) along and on their feet more than once.
    Most relevant to this thread is the song described as a "Collaboration," of which his co-collaborator-in-chief is totally unaware. The lyrics are nothing but excerpts from Bush speeches.    John says there is no way he could make them all up; "Can you imagine how hard (all this) was to memorize?"
    "Ashcroft's Army" appealed to our sense of patriotism, since its stated purpose is to help recruit us all as Domestic Spies.
    And speaking of Patriotism, in addition to reminding us all of the true genesis of "This Land is Your Land" by throwing in some of the verses that have been expurgated from elementary school music texts and current popular consciousness, he performed a new song recalling what it "used to" feel like to remove his cap, place hand over heart, look up at the flag, and join in with the National Anthem. Oh, for the Age of Innocence!
    Enjoy!   M.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 11:27 AM

moron (i)n.(i) 1.) A mentally retarted person, specifically one having a mental age between 7 and 12 years, or an intelligence quotient between 50 and 75. 2.) A remarkably stupid or oafish person. (American Heritage)

Seems to me that this definition applies more to the individualls that would choose to vote for Bush. I'm supprised and amazed that the people who would wish such a disaster upon our country and the world can even read...


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:01 PM

My friend BDiBR (Blind Drunk in Blind River) thinks that "moron" is a word of praise. He calls stupid people (like his brother Don) "less-ons", meaning that they are less "on" the mark than he is.

Don: "Hey, you flippin' MORON! Did you drink the last beer?"

Shane: "Got that right, you flippin' LESS-on! Whyncha go ta th' Beer Store and buy some more, ya loser?!!

Don: "What did you call me?"

Shane: "I called you a LESS-on, flipface!"

Don: "What the flip is that sposed ta mean, y' flippin' retread??"

Shane: "I mean...you are LESS on than me, BOLTHOLE!!! Whaddya think I mean, eh?"

And so on.....isn't life great in the small towns and suburbs of Canada?

Maybe Ducros was actually complimenting Bush. I am surprised that this would not have occurred to Jean Chretien...

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 12:39 PM

Actually Ducros was probably comparing Bush to a prominent glacial geomorphological feature, the moraine, or maybe something to do with yachting, the mooring. This is all too deep for me.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, in Moronland


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 05:31 PM

I just knew you all would have fun with this thread. Call it my Thanksgiving gift to liberal Mudcatters. :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 07:03 PM

http://www.zeeprime.com/bush.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 07:58 PM

What do you want to bet that the shrub won't insist he saw something?


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 09:16 PM

Well, thankee, Doug fir the Thanksgiving gift to the "liberals"... Now, what did you get me? Hunnh, Doug? No Green Party teeshirts, please. I've got a drawer full of 'em, thank you. How's about making a few calls and get Junior to quit? Yeah, that would make a nice Thanksgiving gift.....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 09:18 PM

more on the moron!


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: leprechaun
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 10:42 PM

LH - Isn't Diana Rigg just a little young for you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 11:01 PM

As a service to the general public, allow me to announce that Diana Rigg was born Jul 20, 1938 - Doncaster, England. I'm guessing Little Hawk is 47 years old, so he's too young. She'll be just fine for me, though. She's ten years older than I am, but I can deal with it. People say I'm quite mature for my age.
Can't say the same for Little Hawk... [chortle]
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,Tom Hamilton
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 11:34 PM

That's great to Know, however most politians are anyway


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 12:18 AM

Uh, Joe. Pardon, but Diana Rigg is much closer to MY age than either you or L.H.! I suspicion that she would put both you and L.H. into the hospital due to her experience and expertise. Now an old foggy like me, wise in the ways of satisfying beautiful ladies, that's a different story. We are blessed because WE lived through the Depression, and we learned early on what was required, and how to deliver it.

DougR *G*


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 12:27 AM

hhhahahahha


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 12:34 AM

Y'know, I don't think Bush is dumb. Frankly, he's of a pretty typical intelligence level. From his mispronunciations and inaccuracies, it's obvious that he doesn't do a great deal of reading. I think he lacks the basic curiosity about "what makes things work" that distinguishes the politico of higher intelligence : For Bush, things just are the way they are, the way they always have been, the way they always will be. He has a kind of easy humor and confidence that are rather endearing, the kind of middle-management guy who might have worked at Enron, popular with his underlings and competently managing his area while the whole shooting match was sliding down the tubes. I'll bet he'd be a good guy to have a beer with after work, and what he lacked in wit and perception, he would make up for in humor and camaraderie. He's just an average guy, and I think that's why he appeals to average guys. It's sort of like we were all sitting around the table at happy hour in Bennigan's, drew cocktail straws to see who would become President, and GW won.

Guys like Clinton, Gore, Ralph Nader might be sharp, but you wouldn't meet em for a beer, especially Clinton if your wife came along. Bush said about Reagan "he wasn't bogged down by a lot of complexities that just confuse people." I think this says a lot about Bush...complexities aren't layers of fact or meaning that may have a crucial bearing on a situation, they are "confusers". But he's not stupid, he's merely average. Go to work and look around. There are probably several people in your office with as much skill and competence as George has, they just lack the power and the confidence.

In a country that has been viciously attacked by a group of religious fanatics, where the economy has hit the skids, where the real world seems strange and scary, a simple guy who presents things as black-and-white issues is somehow reassuring to the average American. We aren't looking to the future or we'd want a visionary. We're looking for a competent mechanic to keep the ship of state afloat and steaming along, and maybe plug the holes as they pop up. And I think that's the way GW is seen...he's a Plugger.

Kind of sad though. When what we need is a Lincoln, what we get is the Maytag Repairman. And we're ready to settle for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Boab
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 12:59 AM

A well heeled bearer of "weapons of mass destruction"---moronic or not--- typically CAN move a lot of people, particularly of the creep variety.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 01:03 AM

LEJ - that is a sensationally good post!

Guys - No, no, Diana is not too old for me. No sireee. She is ten years older, but as far as I am concerned, that is no impediment whatsoever. STAY BACK! She's mine!!! Hah! Hah! Hah! (maniacal laughter...)

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 11:17 AM

Ebbie, you cut me to the quick with that ha ha ha ha post. *Sob*

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:12 PM

Oh, no, no, DougR. You misunderstand me. My laughter was purely admiring. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:20 PM

As of tonight the North American media are still obsessing over the "moron" comment. The latest problem that has arisen (in their minds, I mean) is that the Iraqui news agency has gotten hold of the "moron" story and is telling all Iraq about it! The fear now is that this may give people in Iraq and other distant countries the idea that the USA is "not liked" and that Bush is "not respected".

MY GOD!!! Think of what could happen if such ideas got around!!!!!

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

I can't believe these news people. Are they living in some kind of bizarre dream world? How can they take themselves seriously at all? What are they getting paid for? The "Lucy Show" made more sense.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:35 PM

Little Hawk, I watched part of the TV show, 'The View' this morning. They had a short discussion about it. The concensus was that we have a god-given right to call anyone a moron we want to- and worse things than that. It goes with the territory. As one of the panelists said, summing up: "And if Bush can go around calling Putin 'Pootie', what's he got to complain about? What a moron!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:57 PM

I seriously hope that Bush the Lesser is not all upset about being called a moron. It's certainly bad diplomacy on the part of Ducros, but Bush is being called MUCH worse by folks he *should* be worried about, namely registered voters.

Of course, he could be pretending to be in a snit because he wants to invade Canada! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: kendall
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 10:34 PM

You are right, Doug; we learned what they want, and we know how to deliver it, but, they don't want it from US! LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 10:54 PM

Were I the Prime Minister....and you'd better be glad I'M NOT!!

I'd instruct Madame Ducros to immediately start calling EVERY foreign leader a Moron, (with TV cameras running) hence getting us off the hook!

Ummmmmm, personally I can't remember all the names of the world leaders.....ummm who can we ask.....Oh Mr Bushhhhhh?

Seriously Doug, I'm sorry you're having to put up with all this stuff from "Soviet Canuckistan" but with any luck Kendall, Little Hawk and I will get drafted under the new *N.A.G.S.D.C.L Statute that's before Congress at the moment. If I get the chance I'll blow them both away with either my AKG 47, my little Armalight, my D-28, or my M-35.

*North American Geriatric Shit Disturbers Conscription Law.

Moronthislater


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 11:34 PM

Hey - I used to drive an M-35!
(crap - I fear I'm in a rhyming mood again)

Rent Canadian Bacon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 06:17 AM

I find it amazing how Bush received so many votes,the magority of Mudcatters say they don`t support him.
With the gift of hindsight and realising your mistake, are you all being truthful?.
In Ireland it seems every person I speak to regards him with a loathing which was once reserved for Hitler and Stalin.
The fact that he conned his way in to the White House is one of many reasons why he is a hated figure here. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Troll
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:57 AM

I think there must be TWO George Bushes.
One is the moron that everyone seems to think him.
The other is the evil, fiendishly clever manipulator who engineered such things as the death of Paul Wellstone.
I mean, it couldn't be the same guy, could it?

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 11:38 PM

Since Bush gained the White House even though he didn't win the popular vote, it's not that unlikely that someone you talk to didn't vote for him. Tweedledee and Tweedledum both got about 49%... even if Gore had won there'd still be a heck of a lot of people that didn't vote for either of 'em!

Given the generally liberal bent of musicians, I'd say the votes around MudCat went... maybe 20% to Bush?


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 01:10 AM

Well it is true that in human terms he could pass for an average guy, I submit that he has climbed the bully pulpit fully aware that he is not up to the level of thought needed to steward the post through even peaceful times.

Hey, LEJ!! Nice to see your clarion voice around here after so long!

But he is a deep, ground-water idiot, not a drooling social misfit sort of idiot. Not a skin-deep idiot.

This man is dense to the bone.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 11:28 AM

Well relax everybody. Madame Ducros is gone. Oh, to be a fly on the wall behind the scenes, and hear the backroom BOYS desperately trying to do 'damage control'...but all the while laughing their fool heads off at how little even the supposed SMART American politicos know about Canada.

Our politicians may be corrupt and Machiavellian, (well it IS a neccessity isn't it?) but someone with Bush's APPARENT limitations would simply not rise high enough to be in a position to be elected leader. The "illiterate" tag would dog him everywhere he went beyond Mayor of some small town.

Chretien is acting EXACTLY like a guy who'll never run for election again. He simply doesn't give a shit anymore.

Rick


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 02:11 PM

Ebbie: I'm much relieved. :>)

Rick: I hope you, Kendall and LH don't get too shot up over there. The Three Muskeeters to the rescue! I see it in my mind's eye and I ...(hard to explain)...I'll try though ...laugh hilariously! I trust you and LH will keep a close watch on Kendall. I read somewhere that Llamas run wild in Iraq and we wouldn't want ...oh you know.

I haven't heard any reports of Bush being too upset over being called a moron. Rather, I read in one of the Texas newspapers online that he told Ari to send the lady his thanks. That's one of the nicest things he's been called in a long time. :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: PeteBoom
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 02:17 PM

Crossing the border this weekend on my way to pipe band practice with two other guys, the guard on the Canadian side (third time in succession we had him check us!) ran through his usual bit, then recognized the bunch of us and said - "Oh, its you guys again. Have anything to declare?"

We said "Ducross is right." HE said, "Damn right she is, have a good practice, guys." =)

Pete


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 05:23 PM

Maybe it takes some big small bit
To run slipshod across pro quo quit
But whether duh(b) is smart or dumb
He's played a joke on every one

Stuck in place by family
Oil and war uncivilly
Learned vengence found him ruling
Helps industry invent new tooling

Duh(b) is on a brutal team
A frontman average is their scheme
To have his comp'ney and a beer
Affords Big Brother's loving cheer

And what of those who for him voted
With flags and warring conscience coated
Will they read between the lines
Misunderstanding all the signs...? ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bluesmike
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 07:24 PM

What's got me beat is most of the worlds leaders plus our own little banana republic boy scout are lining up for the privelege of giving the shrub a head job for solidarity.
They say we get the politicians we deserve and I'm getting paranoid just trying to work out what I did that was THAT bad.
Michael


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: diesel
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 11:11 PM

This one's doing the rounds out our e-mail way;
rgds
Diesel
>Subject: From the White House!!
>
(We take you now to the Oval Office.)


George: Condi! Nice to see you. What's happening?
Condi: Sir, I have the report here about the new leader of China.
George: Great. Lay it on me.
Condi: Hu is the new leader of China.
George: That's what I want to know.
Condi: That's what I'm telling you.
George: That's what I'm asking you. Who is the new leader of China?
Condi: Yes.
George: I mean the fellow's name.
Condi: Hu.
George: The guy in China.
Condi: Hu.
George: The new leader of China.
Condi: Hu.
George: The Chinaman!
Condi: Hu is leading China.
George: Now whaddya' asking me for?
Condi: I'm telling you Hu is leading China.
George: Well, I'm asking you. Who is leading China?
Condi: That's the man's name.
George: That's who's name?
Condi: Yes.
George: Will you or will you not tell me the name of the new leader of China?
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: Yassir? Yassir Arafat is in China? I thought he was in the Middle East.
Condi: That's correct.
George: Then who is in China?
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: Yassir is in China?
Condi: No, sir.
George: Then who is?
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: Yassir?
Condi: No, sir.
George: Look, Condi. I need to know the name of the new leader of China. Get me the Secretary General of the U.N. on the phone.
Condi: Kofi?
George: No, thanks.
Condi: You want Kofi? George: No.
Condi: You don't want Kofi.
George: No. But now that you mention it, I could use a glass of milk. And then get me the U.N.
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: Not Yassir! The guy at the U.N.
Condi: Kofi?
George: Milk! Will you please make the call?
Condi: And call who?
George: Who is the guy at the U.N?
Condi: Hu is the guy in China.
George: Will you stay out of China?!
Condi: Yes, sir.
George: And stay out of the Middle East! Just get me the guy at the U.N.
Condi: Kofi.
George: All right! With cream and two sugars. Now get on the phone. (Condi picks up the phone.)   
Condi: Rice, here.
George: Rice? Good idea. And a couple of egg rolls, too. Maybe we
should send some to the guy in China. And the Middle East. Can you get Chinese food in the Middle East?


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 02:41 PM

Hey DougR and Little Hawk,

I'm baaaaaaack!

Had a little interval and a small campaign there. (I won)

It's a good thing W's such a moron, otherwise Garp D!khed and Tom D'ashole wouldn't be able to walk all over him.

Oh wait.....

They're toast


The RATs LOST!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 03:58 PM

So good to hear from MavICK again. (Nothing personal, of course.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 09:13 PM

Yes Ebb, nice to hear from you too, (actually I had completely forgot about you)

Too bad about the massive RAT losses and the apparent disintegration of the DNC.

I guess you can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time.

But you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

The RAT message finally bit 'em in the @$$ and the voters didn't want to hear Mondale's "Look at 'em, we're gonna tax their @$$e$ off."

The RAT message:

"We want a more expensive bigger government with more do-nothing union thug bureaucrats to sap the crap out of your work-a-day paychecks so we can have ineffective social programs to buy the votes from the parasites."


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 10:53 PM

Welcome back, Mav, I've needed a wee bit of help from time to time! I don't know if you have met Bobert yet. Now a word or warning. Bobert is mine!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 11:43 PM

Thanks Doug,

Bobert is mine!



Not a problem, I'll be happy to look on and cheer.



I always had a good time with the other Mudcatters who always treated me with the utmost respect.

mav out


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Kaleea
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 03:30 AM

As Bugs Bunny would say, "What a maroon!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 02:32 PM

It is possible that Bush's idiocies are symptomatic of a deeper disorder.

The following from the Toronto Star (an even-handed, thoughtful paper if ever there was one!):

Bush Anything But Moronic, According to Author
Dark Overtones in His Malapropisms


by Murray Whyte


When Mark Crispin Miller first set out to write Dyslexicon: Observations on
a National Disorder, about the ever-growing catalogue of President George W.
Bush's verbal gaffes, he meant it for a laugh. But what he came to realize
wasn't entirely amusing.


Since the 2000 presidential campaign, Miller has been compiling his own
collection of Bush-isms, which have revealed, he says, a disquieting truth
about what lurks behind the cock-eyed leer of the leader of the free world.
He's not a moron at all - on that point, Miller and Prime Minister Jean
Chrétien agree.

But according to Miller, he's no friend.

"I did initially intend it to be a funny book. But that was before I had a
chance to read through all the transcripts," Miller, an American author and
a professor of culture and communication at New York University, said
recently in Toronto.

"Bush is not an imbecile. He's not a puppet. I think that Bush is a
sociopathic personality. I think he's incapable of empathy. He has an
inordinate sense of his own entitlement, and he's a very skilled
manipulator. And in all the snickering about his alleged idiocy, this is
what a lot of people miss."

Miller's judgment, that the president might suffer from a bona fide
personality disorder, almost makes one long for the less menacing notion
currently making the rounds: that the White House's current occupant is, in
fact, simply an idiot.

If only. Miller's rendering of the president is bleaker than that. In
studying Bush's various adventures in oration, he started to see a pattern
emerging.

"He has no trouble speaking off the cuff when he's speaking punitively, when
he's talking about violence, when he's talking about revenge.

"When he struts and thumps his chest, his syntax and grammar are fine,"
Miller said.

"It's only when he leaps into the wild blue yonder of compassion, or
idealism, or altruism, that he makes these hilarious mistakes."

While Miller's book has been praised for its "eloquence" and "playful use of
language," it has enraged Bush supporters.

Bush's ascent in the eyes of many Americans - his approval rating hovers at
near 80 percent - was the direct result of tough talk following the Sept. 11
terrorist attacks. In those speeches, Bush stumbled not at all; his language
of retribution was clear.

It was a sharp contrast to the pre-9/11 George W. Bush. Even before the
Supreme Court in 2001 had to intervene and rule on recounts in Florida after
a contentious presidential election, a corps of journalists were salivating
at the prospect: a bafflingly inarticulate man in a position of power not
seen since vice-president Dan Quayle rode shotgun on George H.W. Bush's one
term in office.

But equating Bush's malapropisms with Quayle's inability to spell "potato"
is a dangerous assumption, Miller says.

At a public address in Nashville, Tenn., in September, Bush provided one of
his most memorable stumbles. Trying to give strength to his case that Saddam
Hussein had already deceived the West concerning his store of weapons, Bush
was scripted to offer an old saying: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me
twice, shame on me. What came out was the following:

"Fool me once, shame ... shame on ... you." Long, uncomfortable pause. "Fool
me - can't get fooled again!"

Played for laughs everywhere, Miller saw a darkness underlying the gaffe.

"There's an episode of Happy Days, where The Fonz has to say, `I'm sorry'
and can't do it. Same thing," Miller said.


"What's revealing about this is that Bush could not say, `Shame on me' to
save his life. That's a completely alien idea to him. This is a guy who is
absolutely proud of his own inflexibility and rectitude."

If what Miller says is true - and it would take more than just observations
to prove it - then Bush has achieved an astounding goal.

By stumbling blithely along, he has been able to push his image as "just
folks" - a normal guy who screws up just like the rest of us.

This, in fact, is a central cog in his image-making machine, Miller says:
Portraying the wealthy scion of one of America's most powerful families as a
regular, imperfect Joe.

But the depiction, Miller says, is also remarkable for what it hides -
imperfect, yes, but also detached, wealthy and unable to identify with the
"folks" he's been designed to appeal to.

An example, Miller says, surfaced early in his presidential tenure.

"I know how hard it is to put food on your family," Bush was quoted as
saying.

"That wasn't because he's so stupid that he doesn't know how to say, `Put
food on your family's table' - it's because he doesn't care about people who
can't put food on the table," Miller says.

So, when Bush is envisioning "a foreign-handed foreign policy," or observes
on some point that "it's not the way that America is all about," Miller
contends it's because he can't keep his focus on things that mean nothing to
him.

"When he tries to talk about what this country stands for, or about
democracy, he can't do it," he said.

This, then, is why he's so closely watched by his handlers, Miller says -
not because he'll say something stupid, but because he'll overindulge in the
language of violence and punishment at which he excels.

"He's a very angry guy, a hostile guy. He's much like Nixon. So they're
very, very careful to choreograph every move he makes. They don't want him
anywhere near protestors, because he would lose his temper."

Miller, without question, is a man with a mission - and laughter isn't it.

"I call him the feel bad president, because he's all about punishment and
death," he said. "It would be a grave mistake to just play him for laughs."


Copyright 1996-2002. Toronto Star Newspapers Limited

© Copyrighted 1997-2002 www.commondreams.org


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 03:18 PM

Ouch

Sometimes this conflict feels almost of biblical proportions. I've never felt that way about the world before.

OTOH, I've never been this old and cynical before- so disregard. As a friend of mine says, he grew up with all the doomsday scenarios of the 50s and 60s drummed into him- and he's not going to worry ever again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: diesel
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 03:37 PM

We have an expression for that type of clear writing and the message it sends goes something like :

Oh Fuck !

Thanks Amos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 03:56 PM

Ard Mhacha's comment on the shrub's standing in Ireland is interesting.

I may be just projecting my own views onto my compatriots, but a possible explanation is that a belief in international institutions and the rule of international law is an important component of the founding myth of modern Ireland (disgust at the imperial powers' exclusion of the Sinn Féin delegation to the Paris Peace Conference of 1919, Dev's commitment to the League of Nations, the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty sponsored by Ireland, participation in UN operations such as the Congo and supprt for the the decolonisation of Africa, the European Court of Justice and Mary Robinson's outstanding pleadings there, the European Union as a joint rejection of war by France and Germany etc. etc.).

The Bushniks' amply-displayed contempt for both law and institutions when they're not made by and for Americans (Kyoto, the International Criminal Court etc. etc.) sets efforts to introduce the rule of law into the conduct of international relations back anywhere from fifty to a hundred years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 06:36 PM

The Bushniks' amply-displayed contempt for both law and institutions when they're not made by and for Americans (Kyoto, the International Criminal Court etc. etc.) sets efforts to introduce the rule of law into the conduct of international relations back anywhere from fifty to a hundred years


GOOD! We fought a revolution to throw off an empire. We like our sovereignty why would we embrace "internationalism" now?


We have immigrants from every culture in the world who come here to enjoy the liberty and independence available here.



Now if only we could set political correctness (suppression of speech)back fifty to a hundred years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 06:59 PM

MAV....I am glad you are back, but don't be a complete jerk so soon, okay? A rule of law among nations is not an empire, for chring out loud.

I concur completely about undoing the rapant and silly business of political "correctness", oxymoron that it is. But let's differentiate between the things that make sense amd the things that do not. It is not as though we are on a separate planet, after all!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: diesel
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 10:40 PM

Hey MAV

One thing to throw off an Empire, another to take it's place.
If you think being subjugated feels bad enough that you want to make your own path in life, what makes walking over others any the better for it.

It's amongst other things called arrogance - and it ain't liked. The british have it in bundles, the French in packets, and the Americans in their daily life - so much so they think they have a right to it...which only proves the point.

Diesel


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:01 PM

Amos,

don't be a complete jerk so soon, okay?


I'm no more being a jerk than any of the other posters on this thread, have a look back, reflecting on the title. I represent the opposing point of view.


A rule of law among nations is not an empire, for chring out loud


It is if it undermines our American Constitution and allows our citizens to be bullied by third world dictators (The UN).


let's differentiate between the things that make sense amd the things that do not


Like what? The lie of "global warming", whether or not Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and North Korea pose a threat to western civilization? The belief that CO2 is a pollutant?


It is not as though we are on a separate planet, after all


The US has been attacked in a big way, we WILL NOT become used to it, if other countries wish to.....so be it. We live in freedom, and promote it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: toadfrog
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:24 PM

No, Mr. Mhacha, we aren't liars. You are mistaken about that. There is more than one type of person in the United States. The kind of people who belong to Mudcat are mostly not the kind who voted for Bush. Just as I'm sure there are many hundreds of people in Ireland who don't throw bombs or send their daughters off to join the Magdalen Sisters.

Troll: You have a point there. I think the answer is, some people believe Bush is a moron because they think he really believes all the stuff he says about "good science" and "fair" taxes. But I give him more credit than that. I think he's intelligent enough to realize that it's all bullshit, what he says, and cynical enough to say it anyway. And I never suggested that he "engineered the death of Paul Wellstone." But I think some of his more far-out supporters may just be capable of that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:25 PM

Obviously Baby Bush is not the only sociopathic personality in this thread; the prodigal Limbaugh wannabe seems to have returned.

Let's don't feed the sociopathic trolls, folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:37 PM

Amos: Interesting article. I'm a bit surprised that you seem to accept the writer's analysis of GWB based on the fact that the writer succeeded in getting a newspaper to print his opinion. After all, that's all it is, isn't it? His opinion? I don't believe he offered any scientific analysis to back up his argument. I think it's horse pucky, but if you accept it as fact, okie dokie. That's your right.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:52 PM

diesel,

One thing to throw off an Empire,another to take it's place. If you think being subjugated feels bad enough that you want to make your own path in life, what makes walking over others any the better for it

Where exactly is the American Empire? We liberate and leave. Are you implying we now occupy and control Germany and Japan etc? Did we steal their natural resources and enslave their people?...Please.

When it comes to oil, we developed it for the murdering savages and then WE PAY THEM FOR IT! Probably a big mistake.

When we do decide to develop our own vast untapped offshore resources and alternate energy technology (should it EVER become necessary) they can go pound sand.

It's amongst other things called arrogance - and it ain't liked. The british have it in bundles, the French in packets

True enough, we don't like it either, the French have a lot of damn Gaul...they can't even get plumbing figured out, even after being shown how. They have absolutely nothing to be snotty about.

and the Americans in their daily life

There's a difference, it's called confidence. We have the freedom to make our own way, to create wealth from a position of poverty and we have no real infrastructure of social classes. American workers are the most productive in the world, and our stock market is the envy of the financial world. We should be ashamed? I think not.

We got to be the world's only superpower by the cooperative effort of individuals of all races and the opportunity to succeed (economic freedom). The rest of the world is envious (resentful) because we did it without the help of their phony socialism.

We have bailed out Europe several times now, most recently in Bosnia. Europe, who gave us Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Musolini, and they have the BALLS to look down their nose at us? (Arrogant bastards) By the way, I hear Europe is currently on the verge of economic collapse.

Even our poor are the richest in the world. Most Americans regardless of class have color tvs, air conditioning, automobiles, computers.

so much so they think they have a right to it

We do have a right to it (confidence). Our rights come from the creator, not from a government or other men. Certainly not from other nations. We WILL NOT let those rights be taken.

Perhaps you should read the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights (US Constitution) available in your local set of encyclopedia. That is what makes American conservatives tick.

mav


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 12:18 AM

That's very nice honey, you used "sociopathic" twice in a single short post. Is it your latest word of the day?

The only sociopaths are the socialists. They have the whole rest of the world, leave U.S. the hell alone.

"W" said, "Either you are with us or......." I think we got your number.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: diesel
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 12:25 AM

Thanks MAV - you've just proved yourself into my point - and I assume don't even realise it.

Should try read what you say - makes Bush seem a gentleman.

Diesel

PS We could argue out our points adinfinitum or adnauseium but I'll just back off and listen.....a while


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 06:52 PM

you've just proved yourself into my point

(inhale whispering slowly to self) "Proved myself into his point"...?

You're not from around here are you?

makes Bush seem a gentleman

President Bush IS a gentleman, a nice contrast to rapist X42.

Perhaps instead of your display of attitude, you would care to refute anything I have stated.

By the way, I'm not particularly religious. It's just that that's the way our history unfolded, and how our founding documents are laid out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 07:43 PM

Hmmm. I miss Doug already, and it's only been a day. Intelligent conversation and debate appears to be in very short supply right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: MAV
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 08:21 PM

Yes ma'am,

It appears you are correct. Nothing but ad hominem attacks.

Anything in particular you would like to discuss?


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 08:35 PM

Don't feed the sociopathic trolls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 08:45 PM

Conversation on Yahoo

"Whiney Old Farts in Pampers
   sit around crying about their chimp being called a moron, whine about bubba getting head,
   whine about having to pay their taxes, whine about colored people wanting to vote, whine
   about arabs holding their oil, whine about people wanting kenny boy in jail, whine about
   having to go after their favorite supporter osama bin laden, whine about having to do an
   independant investigation for all those people who lost family on 9-11, whine about being
   busted selling weapons to saddam hussein, whine about not having prayer in school, whine
   about their children seeing sex on violence while parading a blowjob across it for 2 years.

   goddamnit you stupid fvcking whiney ass conservatives, grow up. bush IS a moron, maybe
   you can't handle that but your "misunderestimating" his capacity for stupidity obviously.

A Response
"Don't worry lefty, we all know klintoon was a joke. "


A Reply
   hahaha funny thing is I voted against clinton


   maybe you pedophile old men in diapers need to see if you can get your cocks re-attached
   after mullah falwell got them off so you could finally get some instead of envying bubba.

    Posted as a reply to: Msg 3186 by Tuncia_Kid

The official resigned !

6:37 PM 11/26/2002


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 09:39 PM

Nicole:

Tant pis; on va chercher du raison d'ailleurs.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 12:56 AM

MAV!

Can you read? Are you dense?
Could you build a stouter fence?
Your Point of view has nothing to it
but love it or leave it... as you screw it

Shout all day for rule of law
Wipe out lefties there McGraw
Kick some liberal ass and gloat
Oblivious to your mighty mote

Wave yer six-gun riding past us
Your mighty steed...is ignoramus
And still the dust it sticks to you
In love with Rush's big to-do

Sit tight, high strung 'patriot'
Read some science, toss "True Grit"
Study up your "Bill of Rights"
And let compassion see your sights

Bully pulpit martyrdom
Shout it louder! deaf and then some
Rabble rouser gets the queue
Of anxious nasties just like you!

If some discourse you'd request
All might do their level best
But Mighty Righty listens not
He loves to fight, and's never caught

Little man I wish thee well
Though ner a spate o raising hell
You deserve a break from this
Hug somebody... find true bliss

But these assertions that you make
Are psycopathic paths to take
The future that you fear to tread
Will tread on you and all you've said.
ttr

P.S. "Get with the program... MAV!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha.
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 06:51 AM

So MR Frog up the line refers back to Ireland and the Magdalen Laundry, at about the time the scum-bags were operating the Laundry they were sill lynching Blacks in the US, and as for the bombs, remember that the terrorists are the guys with the small bombs. And what the hell has this got to do with your conniving chimp?. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 02:56 PM

Amid the rancor and invective, Mark Crispin Miller offers a more reasoned analysis worthy of attention in this interview found at http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/2002/07/19_Mark_Crispin_Miller.html. This book ofhis sounds like a fascinating presentation.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 03:58 PM

Amos, that was amazing, enlighting, and bloody frighting, makes you wonder who are the evil manipulators behind this plonker. Ard Mhacha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 04:01 PM

and even bloody frightening. Ard Mhacha,


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 06:25 PM

Amos, BULLSEYE! You set your sites pretty high don't you! Thanks, I found it reassuring... ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 12:14 AM

Amos: Mark Crispin Miller! Wow! I'm impressed!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 12:54 AM

This Mark Crispin Miller, DougR?

"How will all this bombing keep us safe from further terrorist attacks? Won't it only make them even likelier? Why should merely cracking down on terrorism help to stop it, when that method hasn't worked in any other country? Why are we so hated in the Muslim world? What did our government do there to bring this horror home to all those innocent Americans? And why don't we learn anything, from our free press, about the gross ineptitude of our state agencies? about what's really happening in Afghanistan? about the pertinence of Central Asia's huge reserves of oil and natural gas? about the links between the Bush and the bin Laden families?

"Ask such questions now, and, while you probably won't get the answers that you're looking for, you're likely to learn something quite important from the current climate--that terror serves to sabotage democracy, by making thought itself seem like a crime against the state. Ask those questions, and you will surely be accused of siding with the enemy--just the sort of answer that Al Qaeda's goons would also give you, if you asked them certain tactless questions. Outside of your armchair, then, there really is no place for intellectuals to hide, in this new world of terrorists both foreign and domestic, and fearful yahoos high and low."


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: TIA
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:11 AM

Mav, I'm only taking issue with you because I can never get through to the radio blowhard who is using your lips. Global warming is real. This is the consensus of all actual scientists without political agendas. The exact causes and extent of consequences are still being investigated, but to call it a myth is silly, and dangerously ignorant. And yes, CO2 can be a pollutant. Anything can be a pollutant if present in quantities or in places where it is harmful (i.e. noise pollution, light pollution, nutrient pollution...). As Mr. radio know-it-all has often pointed out, "if ozone is so wonderful (in reference to the ozone hole), why is it a pollutant?" Easy answer -- because it's in the wrong place! At ground level, it's hell on lungs, but high in the atmosphere, it blocks UV. I'd love to explain this to your mentor, but he's unreachable to all except the choir, and I suspect that he would be unreceptive to the opinion of a scientist without agenda, but in disagreement with his.

Guess this wasn't on the topic of the thread (but my button got pushed), so I'll state on-topic that he almost certainly is not a moron in the psychological (albeit it now-antiquated) sense -- of mental age 7 to 12 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 12:27 PM

TIA, please don't feed the psychopathic, racist trolls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: TIA
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 01:20 PM

You're right of course. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 06:32 PM

Guest Johnc's link above leads to a juvenile on-line game site called Outwar which involves creating and operating the character of a Thug in the service of an entitiy known as MyBitch.

His association with the Bush camp makes them look more like morons than ever.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:15 PM

Ebbie: I never dreamed anyone would take my remark about Amos' source seriously.

Mav: You a troll? Must be since you don't espouse the liberal pov. Well, that's not my definition of a troll so I'll continue to read your posts. You do push the envelope a bit more than I do, but what he hey?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:16 PM

Hey, time to remind my Cat friends of the name of this thread, "It's official Bush is a moron" and this from my pal, DougR.

But, heck, I'm startin' to think that as dangerous Junior is he probably isn't a moron. There, Doug, I said it.

I mean he has gotten about 15% of the population to vote for him and his boys.

And he does have one hand in the pocket of "Southern Man" and the other slappin' *Southern Man* on the back fir votin' his redneck butt in, or attemptin' to, since we all know that Junior didn't get voted in by anyone other than his daddy's Supreme Court.

And he has *Redneck America* all charged up for a big ol' war against Iraq. Hey, perfect timing, since NASCAR season is over.

And he...

Nevermind.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:21 PM

interesting report today -- the inspectors are going to site after site and checking them out rigorously. WMD count = 0 to date.

One may therefore ask why the Shrub says the progress is "not encouraging".

He keeps on asking like he believes facts he won't articulate.

This may not be moronic, technically, but it sure makes him look highlyillogical and kinda blood thirsty, since he offers no explanation.

Wodda maroon....


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:37 PM

Now, Amos, yer overlookin' a few things here.

First, it's Junior's *JOB* to sell an invasion of Iraq. The military industrial complex bought his butt and danged if they're gonna just let the boy go off every night chasin' women and snortin' coke like back in Junior's good ol' days. No, Sir, Amos.

And no more *pretzel incidents* either (wink, wink...)

Nope. It's work, work, work. (Get on that drum there, boy, and don't quit pounding til *WE* say so!!!)

Yeah, don't let the *Junior Smirk* fool ya 'cause behind that smirk you'll find all the I.Q.'s that are required to get thru college with a 2.3 GPA or to have figured out a way to embezell $800,000 from Harkin Oil as he drove it into the ground...

Gotta give credit where it's due, Amos...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:15 PM

Amos, since the administration said all along that NOT finding any WMD was going to be considered a breach of the agreement, it doesn't matter if the inspectors don't find any. Ironic, isn't it? If Saddam IS innocent of the charges (which I kinda doubt), they'll consider that proof he's guilty. And ya'll though witch-hunt tactics went out of style a couple of centuries ago.

Personally, I doubt if Saddam is twidling his fingers while the US builds up forces in Qatar. He knows what's coming and is no doubt planning whatever retaliation he can muster. Anyone who still thought that the fundamentalist Islam terrorists movements were stupid or poorly orchestrated might have to eat their words -- the al Qaeda attacks on Israel very neatly -- and hopefully only very nearly -- subverted the Arab support for a war on terror. By declaring that he has joined the so-called war on terror, Sharon will use that excuse even more to justify killing stone-throwing Palestine children, alienating Israel even more from it's neighbors.

But really, it's way too soon to say anything about the inspectors -- they haven't had a chance to do much yet. Of course, it'd be nice if the administration stopped beating the war drums just long enough to be able to hear what the inspectors DO have to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:32 PM

Well, Nicole, reminds me of an old MASH episode where every day "Charlie" flys over in his old sputtering bi-plane and attempts to drop a bomb on the MASH unit and like Hawkeye gets a pool going as to how close the bomb will actually fall to the unit.

Well, since 1992, the same thing has gone on over the supposed "No Fly Zone" except in this case "Charlie" is on the ground with his 50 years old technology and fires his 50 year old gun at the menacing F-16 flying above him and bombing him and his 50 year old gun every day.

So now Junior is all bent out of shape becuase the game continues. Bottom line. The F-16's could satnd still, not fire back and give Saddam a hundred shots at it and not one would be close.

But now Junior gets up in front of the TV cameras and huffs and puffs abvout the Iragis shooting at his F-16's as if they might hit one!!!

Yeah right, Junior...

Yeah count me as being on board, Prezzy. Yeah, send my kid over there to get his butt blown up while blowin' up some Iraqi kids. Yeah,, bomb the crap out of....

And then bomb the crap out of....

And...

And...

Yeah. makes me feel real secure knowin' that we can just bomb our troubles away...

Real secure...

Yeah, like I've said before, Junior won't stop this maddness until the Amnerican people won't go to Boss Hog's malls for fear of gettin' their butts blown the heck up....

This rant? Over..

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:33 PM

Doug, did you even bother to read the excerpt I quoted? I'd love it if you answered the questions one by one...

As for MAV not being a troll, remember the definition of 'troll'? Up here in Alaska, a troller dangles bait in front of potential fish in hopes of a bite. MAV, on the one hand says the nastiest things he can formulate (Don't you LOVE his cute paraphrased names?) and on the other, seems to want his opinions to be taken seriously. If you respect his mindset and his tactics, I'm disappointed in you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:34 PM

Darn. I suspect that should have gone to DR in a PM. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: no moron here
From: Neighmond
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:44 PM

He'd like us to THINK he's a moron


He's slicker than a damnded snake and about as straight too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:18 PM

I note that the troll-apologist didn't attempt to claim he wasn't a racist or a psychopath. That's progress of a sort, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 10:43 PM

Maybe he just doesn't think you're worth responding to,Greg. Or perhaps he's taking your advice to heart. At any rate, flame is not the way to destroy a Troll.
Those of you who ex[ect Mr. Blix to find anything in Iraq will likely be disappointed. A quick check of his record LAST time around shows that.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 01:11 AM

Ah, yes. The US is suddenly trying to undermine Blix's authority. All part of the rhetoric about not accepting the verdict of the inspectors... unless, of course, they say exactly what the US wants them to.

Of course, there was a different tune coming from the US administration in Jan of 2000, when they pushed for his appointment. A snippet from an old UN newswire Jan 27, 2000:

Some Question Blix's Resolve
Some observers criticized Blix's appointment and questioned his potential to strictly enforce UN weapons regulations on Iraq. Paul Leventhal, president of the Nuclear Control Institute, said Blix's tenure at the IAEA was marked by timidity. "I believe his track record at the IAEA suggests that he tends to bend to political will rather than come up with independent findings," Leventhal said. "That gives me real concerns as to how strong a chief inspector can be."
Under Blix's leadership, the IAEA came under fire for failing to detect Iraq's clandestine nuclear weapons program despite carrying out routine inspections of nuclear facilities. "If the approach of the IAEA is now going to guide the new commission, I think the world will have to be highly skeptical about the kind of conclusions this commission reaches," Leventhal said (Barbara Crossette, New York Times, 27 Jan).
...
But US officials praised Blix, saying he would do an excellent job leading the new commission. John Ritch, the US ambassador to the IAEA, said Blix should not be blamed for the agency's failure to detect Iraqi weapons. "To criticize Hans Blix for [Iraq's] secret nuclear program is scapegoating," Ritch said. "Blix was burned. But what he did after the Gulf War is what counts. The IAEA dismantled Iraq's nuclear program" (Crossette, New York Times).
Holbrooke also commended Blix. "We think he is an excellent choice," the US diplomat said. "We are very moved by his willingness to undertake such a difficult task at this stage in his long and illustrious career" (Reuters/CNN Interactive). ..."


Hmmm. Convenient change of tune. Which spin shall we believe today?

Personally, I'm skeptical about comparing routine inspections of a US-funded military ally (Iraq in the 80s) with a microscopic level inspection of the US's enemy of the month.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 01:42 AM

Ebbie: Mav's got some rough edges to some of his posts, I admit. But he may believe that's the best way to get his points across. People here say pretty much what they want to, I think, and not everyone is going to agree with them.

Yes, I read the exerpts you posted, but before I answer any of the questions posed I need to find out just who in the heck the person quoted is! I've never heard of him.

I don't know what most of the recent posts have to do with Bush being a moron anyway. Most of it is rehashed rhetric from other threads. Bobert is getting carried away with his liberal pov, but that's okay. He needs to exercise his nimble fingers on the keyboard from time to time and that's what he's doing. Nothin' new though.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:03 AM

Well, speakin' of "nuthin new", Dougie, yir guy's rhetoric is getting to soundin' like a stuck record. It is so obvious that he is going to have his war come Hell or high water.

I mean, even before the inspectors he was putting out *his* conditions, many of which are arbitrary in nature, for justifictions for war.

Yeah, I know it's tiring hearing a few of us tell the same stories over and over but exactly was has changed over the last several months in your guy's drum beat? Nothin! So bare with us, Doug.

Incidently, the peace movement got a shot in the arm (not literally) yesterday with a front page article in the Washington Post about just how far it has come in such a short time and how much of the organizing is being done by folks with service aged grandchildren and not young hippies.

Hmmmmm? It may not be too late fir you to get on board, Doug. And what a great way yo meet some fun folks...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:36 AM

Interesting article today in the UK press. Apparently three US Presidents have been subjected to similar comments:

Eisenhower - Allied Supreme Commander who master-minder the defeat of Nazi Germany and the liberation of Europe.

Ronald Reagan - Who brought the "Cold War" to an end and saw the collapse of Soviet Communism by showing it to be the bankrupt sham and confidence trick that it actually was.

George W Bush - Who has suceeded in making the United Nations live up to and face its responsibilities.

If all the above are/were really considered to be morons, just think what could be accomplished by men of insight and vision - whenever you guys get around to electing one. For the present I think the trio mentioned above have done a pretty good job making the world a better and a safer place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:41 AM

Jeeze -- putting Reagan and Bush, the Doughnut Hole of the American Right in the same category as Ike is about as scurrilous and irresponsible as you can get, Teri.   Abraham Lincoln was called an idiot too. It's not a reliable litmus test.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:09 AM

And now for a musical interlude in the Bush camps...

The other day I was browsing the Web and came across a site called "The Music of the Masons". (Freemasons, that is). Curious, because I've heard that the Masons claim such illustrious members as Mozart and Beethoven, I opened the site, and guess what was on the title page. Against a backdrop of the stars and stripes, there was good ole George Bush! Along with a transcript of his address to the nation following the Sept 11 attacks.

I was a little shocked. THIS is "The Music of the Masons"? Could it be that he's neither a 'moron' or a 'mormon' but a 'mason'? Is that why the rest of the world follows his lead, like rats following the Pied Piper? Hmmmmmm, I think I'd rather be shovelling snow than pondering this too deeply!


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:56 AM

Well, GUEST, Junior is tryin' to improve his vocabulary and has started in the middle of the dictionary. Thus, lots of "m" words floating 'round him these days.

Yo, T... You really think that Ronnie Raygun was a great president? Hmmmmmm? He was a lucky president in that during his watch (and I use that term loosely...) the Soviet Union imploded. Meanwhile, back at the ranch (literally speaking...) Ronnie held out the "credit card" and shamed the Dems. when it comes to big, big governemnt and big, big spending. So what's wrong with that, you ask. Same thing as if you or I do the same. Someone's got to pay the bills, which ended up being us in the 90's.

Now we got another "Just Say Charge It!" president with the credit card out with big, big governemnt and big, big spending and no one particularilly interested in paying as we go. History certainly repeats itself. Funny thing, the American working stiff ain't got a clue..... YET! But he will when the bill collectors come knocking on his door in a couple of years. But not to worry. Junior and his media boys will place the blame on some Dem. scapegoat;.

And the beat goes on...

And the beat goes on...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:00 AM

Hi Amos, the guy who wrote the article lumped them together, read for yourself:

They'll have to think again about the Quiet American
By Mark Steyn
(Filed: 01/12/2002)


The brand new film of The Quiet American is at least as much a travesty of Graham Greene's novel as the old 1958 film was. Back then, the book was too anti-American. Forty years on, it's not anti-American enough. So Greene's ambiguous naif blundering around colonial Vietnam has been oomphed up: the eponymously quiet American played by Brendan Fraser is now, as Peter Bradshaw puts it in The Guardian, "a CIA kingpin whose fresh-faced Ivy League mask falls away at the end to reveal a coldly ideological functionary".

Hmm. A genial Ivy League mask hiding a coldly ideological kingpin. Who does that remind you of? Of all the strains of anti-Americanism available these days, the new Quiet American at least takes the view that the blundering naivety is an artful pose. Off-screen, most anti-Americans won't even go that far. On Tuesday, Franoise Ducros, the Communications Director for the Prime Minister of Canada, was forced out of her job because she'd been overheard at the Nato summit disparaging the intelligence of President Bush. This is not quite the official position of Her Majesty's Government in Ottawa.

It's fine for the French Foreign Minister to accuse the White House of "simplisme", because those idiot Americans are far too simplistic to know what simplisme means. It's safe for "senior British civil servants", in this newspaper, to dismiss Bush as "a bear of little brain", because those frightful Yanks are too ill-educated to recognize such a subtle intellectual literary allusion. It's okay to sneer at the President, as is done routinely at dinner parties in London, Paris, Winnipeg, all the great cities, as "not the brightest bulb in the chandelier", because such concepts as metaphor and analogy are almost certainly unknown to the birdbrain.

Had she done any of the above, Franoise Ducros would still have her job. But instead she cut to the chase. "What a moron!" she scoffed, speaking in Prague to a CBC reporter. The CBC guy barely noticed the remark: I mean, what's the big deal? Everyone knows Bush is a moron, don't they? But Miss Ducros happened to be overheard, and the Canadian government was concerned that, moronic as Bush might be, even a moron knows the term isn't a compliment. Miss Ducros' job is to get her boss press coverage, no easy thing when your boss is the Prime Minister of Canada, and the only coverage she got out of the Nato meeting came when Saddam Hussein publicly endorsed her opinion of Mr Bush and she temporarily displaced Celine Dion as the most famous Canadian in Baghdad. Granted that, on the question of war with Iraq, Canada's doing its usual routine of insisting the sidelines are the moral high ground, the government's not yet ready to be Saddam's PR agency. So Francie Ducros bit the dust.

There's something apt about the way Miss Ducros' remark was seized on by Saddam, one delusional superiority complex reaching out to another. I was in the Gulf six months ago, and I came to the conclusion that a majority of the people I met - somewhere between 55 and 70 per cent - were, to use the technical term, nuts. That's to say, they believed things that no rational person could believe. You'd be talking to an attractive, westernised, educated Bahraini lady doctor and she'd suddenly start babbling on about how there was no plane that crashed into the Pentagon on September 11, all the footage had been faked by the government. "But I know someone who saw it from his office window," I said. "He just thinks he saw it," she replied. "The Americans know how to do these things."

John Derbyshire of America's National Review thinks the Middle East needs a massive invasion of psychiatrists. Well, about halfway through this last week in Canada, I realized I was beginning to feel about my homeland exactly the way I'd felt in Araby: these guys are nuts. Quebec's biggest English-language radio station, CJAD, conducted a listener poll on the question "Is George W Bush a moron?" Every single person said yes, he's definitely a moron, except for two who thought he was merely an idiot. On the letters pages, it was the same, except for Art Peel of Hamilton, Ontario, who complained that calling Bush a moron "does a disservice to the mentally challenged, most of whom are kind, gentle people".

Exactly. Most Canadians and most Europeans are kind, gentle people but, Bush-wise, they're the ones who are mentally challenged. The "moron" line is simply inadequate: no rational person can believe a twice-elected Texas Governor, successful US President and overthrower of the Taliban is a moron unless a majority of Americans are morons, too. And in that case how come the morons have a global dominance unparalleled in history? As with those wacky Arabs and their Zionist conspiracies, Euro-Canadian anti-Americanism is a psychosis.

In fairness to the late Ayatollah Khomeini, when he dubbed the US the Great Satan he at least understood that America is a tempter, a seducer: his slur attempts to explain its appeal. Calling America the Great Moron, by contrast, is just feeble. I happen to like moral clarity myself, but I can appreciate that for some tastes Bush's habit of dividing the world into "good" and "evil" and using these terms non-ironically might seem a little simplistic. But it's nowhere near as simplistic as dividing the world into "I'm right" and "you're stupid".

For Republicans, this is an old song. "President Reagan's library burned down. Both books," drawled Gore Vidal from his exile in Italy. "The tragedy was he had not finished colouring the books." This is the guy who won the Cold War. In the 1950s, Eisenhower was a smiling dummy who cared most about his golf. This is the fellow who won the Second World War. But long after everything else has crumbled away the intellectual arrogance of the anti-Americans is indestructible. "A man like George W Bush is simply not possible in our politics," I was told by an elegant, cultured Parisian this spring. "For a creature of such crude, simplistic and extreme views to be one of the two principal candidates in a presidential election would be inconceivable here. Inconceivable!" Two weeks later, Jean Marie Le Pen made it into the final round of the French election.

In The Quiet American, Graham Greene treated these cliches more fairly than most: the American may not understand the Vietnamese, but the worldly Englishman is mired in his jaded passivity. Whether these stereotypes were ever true, today they've been subtly modified. The Rest of the West is more mired in jaded passivity than ever, but it's no longer worldly, just hopelessly parochial: George Monbiot, The Guardian's unreliable predictor of mass devastation in the Hindu Kush, doesn't have a clue about the Afghans nor the Anglican bishops about the Iraqis; all they're doing is projecting their sad little Left-wing salon chit-chat halfway around the globe in a kind of sissy-boy cultural imperialism.

The American is still quiet but the Euro-Canadians get noisier in proportion to their impotence. American naivety transformed Japan and Germany. Anglo-French worldliness gave us Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and thereby September 11. If it takes centuries of "experience" in the region to invent Pakistan, then how much worse can a blundering Yank moron do?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Richie
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:53 AM

I've never posted on a political tread so...

I'm a registered independent, I support President Bush and voted for him in the last election.

I'm against terrorism, and murders like Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. I think it's time for the world to unite against terrorism. When left alone Saddam Hussein attacked Kuwait, when left alone Osama Bin Laden has murder thousands of innocent people.

I don't think Bush is a moron.

-Richie


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 12:30 PM

Thanks for the article Teribus. Some interesting points in there. I may not think Bush II is the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, but Comments like "moron" are never intended to realisitically indicate a guess at a person's actual IQ. Presidents are also not the sum of their administration; the Prez may not be brilliant, but that's why Presidents have advisors and staff.

I'm not likely to hop on the bandwagon about how Reagan ended the Cold War or Bush II defeated the mighty Taliban.

I mean, really. The Taliban wouldn't be in power if we hadn't put them there in the first place; defeating the Taliban is like me bragging about how I beat up a 3 year old kid. The 3 year old may or may not have deserved a bloody nose, but it's no indication of my "power."

The Soviet Union simply collasped under the weight of it's own arrogance. It was foolish of them to think they could out-spend us when they had no real economic infrastructure to speak of. For all the talk of "Communism," they were a totalitarian oligarchy. Communism was simply the state religion. Which is not to say Reagan didn't try, and he did help speed up some symbolic issues, like the Berlin Wall. But the collapse of the Soviet Union was no triumph, it was simply fated to be. Of course, Reagan will go down in history with the "credit" -- someone has to get it -- but I was a raging Reagan fan back then and even I didn't think that Reagan really had a whole lot to do with it. The Republican rewriting of history lauding Reagan as one of the great presidents is kinda sad. Personally I though Bush Sr. was a better President, even if I disagreed with his politics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 01:14 PM

Bobert: thanks for the invite. I know the marchers are nice folks and all that, but my feet hurt if I march too much. When I hear of thousands of marchers, though, I wonder why they are not working.

In your post yesterday you commented something about the Iraqis not being able to down a F-16 if it stood still, or something like that. Bobert, an F-16 cannot be "still" in flight. It can't go backward either. You sounded a bit disappointed the Iraqis haven't shot down one of our planes, or one of Tony's. You weren't implying THAT were you?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,Richard H
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 02:18 PM

Bush is the first person who has managed to make Saddam look good. Surely that counts for something?

A few years ago Saddam was regarded as a not-nice guy even by Muslims. Today people all over the world seem to be saying, "Hey, in comparison with Bush, he ain't so bad after all."

To turn a perceived despot into an underdog, oppressed hero in just a year took some doing - and George did it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 02:49 PM

Doug:

Well, danged! Of course I know that the F-16 can't stop in mid air! Heck, I may be a Wes Ginny hillbilly but I ain't stupid. Geeeze.

The point I was making yesterday was that this little decade long game that the F-16 pilots and the Iraq's on the ground hasn't brought one plane down and I reckon after 10 long years that the Iraqi's ain't gonna suddenly get better at the game. So for Junior to use this little beneign game as a motivation for attacking Iraq is no better than Kennedy's excuse when a Viet Namese fishing boat *may or may not* have fired a bullet from a WW I rifle at a US destroyer.

Now, today, the other half of the *twidle-dee-twiddle-dummer* (your choice...) releases a report that Saddam is a bad man. Hmmmmmm? Like that's, ahhh, NEWS? Well, maybe to the guy who just woke from a coma who has missed the last few months of drum pounding but to no one else. Oh well, can't say that your tax dollars aren't at work 'cause Junior's PR folks are spendin' 'em like there's no tomorrow. Oh, that's right. Maybe there won't be. Word on the street is that Saddam has nuclear waepons and he's plannin' on attackin' the US and UK with 'em any day now.....

Give my boney Wes Ginny butt a break, folks.

And while yir at it, beam me up....

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 05:12 PM

Well, the article does not exactly lump Ike and Bushhead together; let's be very clear about the differences. Ike went to war, in what can only be called a legitimate cause; Bush has never gone to war but wants others to do so on grounds he will not specify. Ike warned the American poeple to beware the military-industrial complex; Bush forced people to embrace and support it. Ike was a well-read, mild-mannered, gentleman fromt he Midwest; Bush is an arrogant, semi-literate twit from Texas, except the Texans I know say he just pretends to be a Texan. Eisenhower was a good strategist and a proven general before he was tapped for politics; Bush was a general good-for-nothing and miscreant before he decided that qualified him for politics. Eisenhower was relatively thoughtful and quite articulate, and Bush is thoughtless, reacts primarily to his own anger and the dictates of his coaches, and cannot compose an articulate sentence to save his life.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 05:19 PM

Amos, you've made your case: the two are amazingly alike! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 05:39 PM

Troll-

( I'm assuming you're not a 'guest' at all but the same fellow that's been around for quite a while)

At any rate, flame is not the way to destroy a troll.

Not my intent to flame at all - I'm trying to be objective.

Do a search and read this individual's posting history. He/She has repeatedly made unequivocally racist and white supremecist statements. Additional views She/He expresses and the manner in which they are expressed certainly indicate a sociopathic and possibly a pshchopathic personality; preposterous statements and assertions that would embarrass many if not most thinking political conservatives.

It is, of course, possible that She/He posts without really believing the spew; in that case She/He is simply a vicious buffoon- immature and obnoxious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 05:54 PM

Teribus, thanks but no thanks! If by lifting a press column you think to gain credit (from intelligent folks), then you are making a big mistake, even though it slobbered a slimey gooey totaly false impression of the issues raised by e-events, to wit - one man and his character.

It is not about G W's intelligence, that is not the issue. We all know he is as clever as most and more than many including the fat pig of Radio Brainwashing, Mr Bumm Tushraw.

Instead it is about getting out of reality by various 'preppy' tricks - making up words- which may influence softies and old women. See the Yahoo chat (above) for clarification.

Nor is it about courage, he took on Saddam after Osama had been driven into oblivion, allbeit from the safety of the Bunker. No, I am not being ungracious here, just what I hear every other person I meet comment! G W cares about his butt, and why shoulden't he! It is not 1942 and this is not the Lufwaffe bombing London. We do not expect US service men to leap out of trenches under fire and bayonette the Taliban! Or do we? Courage under fire takes a special kind of character, the kind we expect every one who dares claim the title of defender of the colors. Enough said!

But alas confusion, the whole debate is riddled with leftovers from the last leader including some deepfelt anger towards the Freepers for the way they butchered an innocent, if randy, man. But leaving that aside, even in war time and under the scrutiny of the newly formed SS I have no fear at all in saying, I defend this president's character as much as I did the last while ever keeping a truthfull eye wide open. In short the hype demands an eraser.

No better place to debunk hype than your elevated views of Ronnie Reagan. Look - chum (Canadian/British/Euro pet name for an intelligent person who is pretending to be a dog) - the USSR was falling apart, the Iron Knickered Witch of the North, Maggie (Atilla the Hen) Thatcher had already secured the absolute end of it all with one British hand-held anti-aircraft missile when her minnions delivered it to Mr Osama Bin Laden way way back there; it was yet a time when the Bin Ladens and Bushes were swapping parties (and business leads) for Oil Barrons from all over the Globe including a couple of suckers from Argentina, but alas that was not going to last when they found all that unexplored/undiscovered oil in Kazhakstan and locality. They had what we Euro/Canadian/British call 'a falling out', a family row. Did that cause 9-11? We don't yet know but I bet some American-historian down the road will be seriously wondering. I know I am, how about you Terribus?

Backing up a little, in case your memory is still a little blurred, it was around the same time that the USA armed Saddam Hussein with Chemies and other efficient tools for settling social unrest among Kurdies, Osama helped here as well while the US had to it's own man on the ground for their sightly different adgenda, but nobody was looking at the other fellow's maps - and why would they being good buddies. Now who was it that arranged all this mayhem and .....gassing?

Now I admit G W had nothing to do with these things, he was still a young fellow running around having a good ole time at the country club and occasionaly at college. In between these bouts of normality he grabbed a few shots of whatever there was to enliven the boredom of being a young rich kid. Who wouldn't, not me, but hey only if I could afford the life style. Can you?

Lets face facts, if there was no wad of dough to bank then this turkey he would probably be a fast food manager not the president of the USA: now don't get yer knickers in a twist here, this is what the folks I meet tell me and who am I to argue, being a Euro/Canadian/British leftie.

Naw none of this is relevant so long as Saddam now gone wrong, now a threat to world peace - I am not making this up !- now the owner of Scud Missiles, of hidden nuclear thingies ( more Britishisms ), of other frightening chemicals and so on, is about to attack somebody, well anybody. Saddam likes attacking things; did he not get the Maddest-Maddog prize at the Dictators-who-attack-things Ball in Mecca last year?

So somebody oughter get rid of this monster, we should have gotten rid of it long, long ago. How about when we first knew he had gassed thousands of Kurd civilians? This is why Tony Blair now want's the Brits to invade Iraq, and hey if we are going to meddle lets do it properly. So how about Kuwait and democracy? How about Saudi and civil rights? Heck lets take the whole darn thing for democracy - and the oil would start to be handy around 2025-50, well there or there abouts...more Britishisms, sorry!

Yup that is what we must do, especially with the need for new enterprise(=a job) for the likes of Ron the E person who stole more old ladies savings than 'E Deal' the online day trader in a trailer house under any Interstate; you know the fellow with an MBA, the one on the TV add for more wire in yer telephone line.

When it comes to brains he who wrote your pasting along with Erie-E-Deal-4-U wrote the book Terribus, it makes me jealous. How can one person get away with so many lies and still sound like he/they is telling the truth?

Perhaps the kind that says 'Quiet American'

Terribus you should have known better, ...Yanks are loud.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 06:04 PM

In Terror War, 2nd Track for Suspects
Those Designated 'Combatants' Lose Legal Protections
By Charles Lane
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 1, 2002; Page A01
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58308-2002Nov30.html

The Bush administration is developing a parallel legal system in which
terrorism suspects -- U.S. citizens and noncitizens alike -- may be
investigated, jailed, interrogated, tried and punished without legal
protections guaranteed by the ordinary system, lawyers inside and outside
the government say.

The elements of this new system are already familiar from President Bush's
orders and his aides' policy statements and legal briefs: indefinite
military detention for those designated "enemy combatants," liberal use of
"material witness" warrants, counterintelligence-style wiretaps and searches
led by law enforcement officials and, for noncitizens, trial by military
commissions or deportation after strictly closed hearings.

Only now, however, is it becoming clear how these elements could ultimately
interact.

For example, under authority it already has or is asserting in court cases,
the administration, with approval of the special Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Court, could order a clandestine search of a U.S. citizen's
home and, based on the information gathered, secretly declare the citizen an
enemy combatant, to be held indefinitely at a U.S. military base. Courts
would have very limited authority to second-guess the detention, to the
extent that they were aware of it.

Administration officials, noting that they have chosen to prosecute
suspected Taliban member John Walker Lindh, "shoe bomber" Richard Reid and
alleged Sept. 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui in ordinary federal courts,
say the parallel system is meant to be used selectively, as a complement to
conventional processes, not as a substitute. But, they say, the parallel
system is necessary because terrorism is a form of war as well as a form of
crime, and it must not only be punished after incidents occur, but also
prevented and disrupted through the gathering of timely intelligence.

[...]






There ya go folks -- with the flick of a wrist the Bush boys can turn you from an AMerican citizen into a dishrag on mere suspicion alone. Anyone remember the Star Court? THe Spanish Inquisition? Salem? Various lynchings by mobs in the Southern and Western territories of the United States? Well, these precedents are become OFFICIAL in order to save us all from terroristas. Except for the official terroristas, of course...they don't qualify. If the powers that be ever do turn these remarkable and ill-gotten powers oin each other, it will be a hoot to watch. Meanwhile. your bill of basic rights has become optional, I guess.

These guys may not be morons but that doesn't mean they're not psychotic.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 06:45 PM

Speaking of war, there's a big story that's received ZERO coverage in the US news. Although it's authenticity cannot be verified (and I'm inclinded to belief Osama is not the actual author), the Osama bin Laden "Letter to America" is a very clear statement from Islamic extremists on what their point of view is and why they are anti-West.

Since these folks ARE our enemies -- "war on terror" rhetoric or not -- I think that's is very, very sad that no one in the US press seems to feel like this deserves attention. (Of course, one of my local news stations is bragging about how they don't cover international news... *sigh*) It appears that folks would rather speculate on "why they hate us" than get the story from the horse's mouth.

History of the letter HERE

Text (translated) of the actual letter HERE

It's quite long, but very lucid. Sandwiched between the religious fervor and general hatred are some very, very relevant points.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:05 PM

Thanks for the link, Nicole C.

I read it. Given the premise, it makes a number of good points. However, I would be very surprised to learn it was written by bin Laden or any other 'foreigner'. I suspect that it was written by an American, perhaps a convert to Islam, or possibly just an opportunistic person. There are several places where the phrasing seems uniquely 'western'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:08 PM

Ebbie, if you read the report, this was originally written in Arabic and posted on a Saudi web site, then was circulating among Islamic extremists in England before the press got their hands on it. It was, however, translated by a Brit, but the translator is unknown.

It's clearly designed for western ears, but then again, that's the premise. Something about it bugs me, too; maybe it's the translation. I don't know how well Arabic translates -- I gather that it's a very concise language, using far fewer words to get across a concept than English. If so, translationg could be "loose" by nature.

I think I'd like to see how a scholarly translation stacks up against this one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:37 PM

Nope, Ebbie, I'm fairly confident you are wrong. I think it was written by Bobert. I'm just surprised that sucker hasn't taken credit for it. He's a case, isn't he? And he can spell when he really wants to! :>0

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 12:00 AM

Actually, Nicole, I think you are being sensitive to something in the copy that is genuinely jarring. If it was translated by some in house Foreign Desk expert uit might account for the terribly strained mixture of sectarian stridency and secular semantics. There's certainly a lot of tough and sometimes righteous talk there, but it rings off-key somehow.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 05:52 AM

Guest sorefingers:

"Teribus, thanks but no thanks! If by lifting a press column you think to gain credit (from intelligent folks), then you are making a big mistake, even though it slobbered a slimey gooey totaly false impression of the issues raised by e-events, to wit - one man and his character."

Before making the above comment you should have read what I posted and Amos's response. Then read the beginning of my post where the article appears. The article was "lifted" only to let Amos read it for himself - no thought at all on my part to gain credit from intelligent folks (such as yourself??). Reading through your post though brings home one point made in the article that your attack clearly demonstrates:

"...it's nowhere near as simplistic as dividing the world into "I'm right" and "you're stupid"."

As for:

"It is not about G W's intelligence, that is not the issue."

Am I missing something in the title of this thread???


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 09:56 AM

Terribus, agree to disagree. The article is on a public forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 10:06 AM

Ya wanna know how dumb this Bush fella is? I'll tell ya. He hasn't bought that Condolezza Schwartz a copy of these here Mudcat CDs yet!! It would make her day, and he ain't lifted a finger!! Talk about OB-tuuuse!! I swan!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 10:26 AM

I have read the letter Nicole has linked to with great interest for I previously only had read about that letter.
Especially the second part (what they want from the 'West' to stop) gives me ample reason to oppose them. What they demand is so much in contradiction to how I prefer to live that I'd go to great lengths to prevent them coming close to their aims.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 11:22 AM

Wonder if they would change their tune if we sent them those terrific Mudcat Sampler CDs??


Wolfgang -- well said, and fully agreed!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 11:43 AM

LOL, Amos!

After digesting the letter (in my sleep, where I do my best thinking), I am more convinved that the letter is a) NOT written by bin Laden or those close to him, b) is written by an Arabic speaking Islamic fundamentalist and c) the translation is not very good and has been westernized.

The most compelling reason for a) is that bin Laden is quite good about passing messages to the press. He would not have just posted a letter on a web site that was intended for western ears, it would have been delivered anonymously to al Jeezera per his normal mode of operations. Secondly, bin Laden is very western-savvy. The refutation of the Jewish claims on Israel in the letter is entirely based on religion. In the West, however, a strong legal precedent exists for the concept of ownership by possession. But the fact that the Palestinians had been living there for thousands of years, many of those when the Jewish hadn't, isn't even mentioned. Bin Laden would not have missed such an easy argument.

This point also speaks to point b). A western writer would not have missed that point; it would have been given equal billing with the religious one.

The translation seems poor because of the use of words like "revenge." Islam does NOT allow revenge -- it does, however, allow (and require) self-defence. The use of a word like revenge is a loaded one in English, but does not really convey the original concept defined just prior to it's use. Self-defense would have been a better word, but it doesn't speak very agressively in English. Then, he writer makes a compelling argument against the idea that people in a democracy can ever be considered civilians, but follows up with the idea that killing civilians is permitted in Islam. Other than the fact that killing civilians is specifically prohibitted in the qaran, it makes no sense to make such a statement following an argument that Americans are NOT civilians because they control the actions of their government.

The westernization of the translation seems most apparent in the topic of women. There appears to be a gap in the text. On other subjects, the writer is very verbose. On this one, there is only a short paragraph. Why? The paragraph which refers to the exploitation of women for commercial means being a limitation rather than a freedom is very much mainstream Islam. Although most feminists would not be happy with the proscribed role for women in the Qaran, it is MUCH more pro-female than the Old or New Testament. Yet, we know that fundamentalist Muslims do not share this generally pro-female view with the rest of Islam. Are there paragraphs missing, removed to appeal to the western audience that the translation is for? I suspect the paragraph on women was followed up by more fundamentalist views. Elsewhere, the author didn't pull any punches about anti-Jewish or anti-western statements; it makes no sense that the writer would have done so about women.

Anyway, that's my general concept on the authorship. I am inclined to this the author is a Saudi who believes in the fundamentalist movements and may be involved in it, but is not in a leadership position.

As a HUGE fan of pluralistic societies, I can't say that the world view expoused in this letter is something I'd like to come anywhere near. But there are legitimate grievances about Western actions that we can and should address. By doing so, the West can help avoid the spread of this kind of sentiment and the violence -- and death -- that follows in it's wake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 12:02 PM

Wow, Nicole!! I am impressed. A taxing task, and a very sharp analysis.


NOW go order your Mudcat CDs!! You earned 'em!!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 12:19 PM

I already DID order my Mudcat CDs. It's not my fault I don't have 'em yet! :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 12:20 PM

Doug, and others:

While I found myself agreeing with some of the points of the Osoma Letter, I did not write it.

Actually, Osoma and John Ashcroft have a lot more in common than I do with Osoma. Both are right winged extremists. Make no bones about Osoma. If he were the President of the United States he would kill millions of people for their sins against Allah: prostitution, drug use, alcohol use, homesexuality, etc. I think Ashcroft, if left to his own devices, would severely punish folks for what he sees are the same sins.

No, this is a sobering letter and one that really makes one stop and think about how we are seen by those folks who really *are* our enemies and how, other than diverting our focus toward hot wars, can they be defeated.

One important step, I believe, would be the "Emergency Middle East Peace Summit" that I have offered as a step to derail the recruitment bonaza that our failed foriegtne policies have created for Osoma and Co..

A second step, the creation of a Department of Peace. See previous thread.

But, probably the most important step and the most difficult is for the *working class* to take back democracy and get the folks out of power who are nothing more than corporate employees. 9 out of 10 winners in the recent election were canidates who *spent to the most money*. (keep an eye on Luisiana Saturday and you'll see how it works...)

Unfortunately, there is little that the *working class* can do to stop Bush's plans to attack Iraq. Maybe the deaths of our kids and grandkids will jump start a movement large enough to leave a "No more Bush's" imprint on our collective value system.

Yeah, we're going to have to deal with these basic flaws some where down the road because until we do become a caring neigbor rather than the greedy one that we are now, the future will be paved with Osomas.

Bobert

P.S. Thanks, Nicole, for posting the link, though the reading wasn't too *fun*.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 04:55 PM

Bobert --

You can cheer yourself up by ordering an EXTRA set of Mudcat CD's to send to Saddam.

Or to send to DougR!! Imagine that!!! LOL!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 07:36 PM

The most recent reports I have heard are that the audio tape supposedly made by Bin Laden was not genuine. I seriously doubt he wrote the letter either. Any "nut" could write such a letter and the press would likely print it. Particularly so if the press that did so was not very careful in their research. That could be the reason you haven't seen anything about it in your newspapers Nicole.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 08:10 PM

You must be right Doug. The US newspapers and media know better, and we should only concern ourselves with what they choose to report on. Anything else must be, by definition, irrelevant and untrue.

And before Amos says it... my local newspaper hasn't reported on the Mudcat CDs either. They must be fake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 08:21 PM

Nicole...I am stunned. I think I have just lost every ounce of faith I ever had in the press.   They haven't reported these incredible CDs??? The NEWS of the HOUR!!! The PINNACLE of ARTISITIC ACHEIVEMENT???

Oh, woe!! The Fourth Estate, Overrun with PHILISTINES!!!

QUICK!!!!

Let them know!!! Right away!!!

Maybe the cultural affairs deskman was sick this week or sompn....


:>)


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM

Doug:

First of all, it doesn't matter who wrote the letter. It pretty much sums up the issues that seperate the two sides.

Secondly, "investigative" journalism is DEAD in America. One of the last American investigative journalist, Greg Palast, was sent packing for diggin' in the wrong places. The only ones left are holed up at Pacifica which has five FM stations around the country. Other than that, your guys own the rest of the media.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Troll
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 12:02 AM

Yeah Greg, it's me.I lost my cookie. Got it back though.
Bobert, just because the "rest of the media" doesn't happen to hew to the same line as Pacifica, it doesn't mean that they are all owned by "your guys", whoever That may be. It simply means that they have different editorial policies than does Pacifica. There is nothing wrong with that. It happens all the time in free societies. It is only in the totalitarian societies that all the media follow the same editorial policy.
The fact that investigative reporters for branches of the media other than Pacifica are not investigating the things that YOU think they should be investigating is not an indication of their demise.
It is merely an indication of your political bias.
Regarding your "Emergency Middle East Peace Summit", I will ask again the question I asked when you first brought it up.
How do you plan to force (yes, that's right. Force) the various countries to attend. Saddam won't sit down with Israel, the Ayatollas won't sit down with Saddam, etc.
I await your answer.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 12:17 AM

Just a thought... before talking about "forcing" folks to attend, *asking* them first might be most appropriate.

But as the largest economy in the world, it's quite simple. Attend, or we don't sell you anything, give you any military aid, or buy anything from you. Period.

Would suck if the Sauds didn't show up though...

But there's asking and there's asking. Deputizing significant and well-respected allies (like the King of Jordan) to approach countries with which they have good relations would be more diplomatic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 07:22 AM

Hi Nicole, thanks for the link to the letter, makes frightening reading - I agree with your assessment that Bin Laden is an unlikely author.

If it fairly accurately sets out the points of difference and remedial actions required, the the proposed "Emergency Middle East Peace Summit" is a non-starter, since one the main remedial actions appears to be that the state of Israel must cease to exist.

Wolfgang - I agree whole-heartedly with your opinion - very well put.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 10:08 AM

Troll:

I guess you weren't around during the 60's and 70's when the media went out and snooped around and a week didn't go by when there was a major documentary on the tube.

What reporters do these days is take press releases that are written by whom? The Government! Yeah, they scramble a few sentence, make a couple calls and write the stories. The Gulf war is a prime example of that. The government spoon fed the media and consequently we were provided with the *government's* spin on the events. The *governemnt* has allready had meetings with the press on the upcoming Iraq War and told the media that, in essence, "You'll get what we give you." Yeah, there's more to investigative journalism than atytending one government "press conference" after another.

GUEST:

I hope that you were being flip about the destruction of Isreal but, depending on which GUEST you are, you may be perfectly serious. While I'll be the first to admit that with every suicide bomber or Palestinian shot down by the Isreal military, a ceasation of violence becomes harder to visioulize BUT, it must come and will come at some point in time. I believe that the US missed a good opportunity when it rejected the Saudi Proposal. This could have been a framework for waht I have been suggesting. Throw in some good old fashined diplomacy, Nicole's "leverages" and a couple billion bucks worth of good PR and I'd venture we wouldn't be on the eve of spending $200B and exercising the most anti-human foriegen policy option.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 10:32 AM

From the "Bin Laden" Letter:

"The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily."

Now if that fairly reflects current Al-Qaeda thinking - nothing short of the erradication of the state of Israel will satisfy them. Later on in their letter they even castigate Arab regimes who are prepared to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a sovereign state, and declares them enemies.

Any real dialogue with these guys, who have attacked you and continue to plan attacks against you irrespective of your actions and intentions, seems well nigh impossible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 11:09 AM

Aw, c'mon now folks...

*ALL* politicians are eejits...that, or complete and total megalomaniacs who could give a rats ass about anything but their own power base (coughcoughbillclintoncoughcough).

We'd be a lot better off if we the people decided that political positions should earn about what a Manager at McDonalds earns...

Then, no one but those who really care about doing the real work would have anything to do with it.

S'why I voted for that wacko Nader.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 11:59 AM

Yeah, right.

"Hey Osama you want fries with that?"

And that would be the competence level you'd get in government with a low wage. Either that, or those so obsessed with wielding power that you'd want them as far away from it as possible.

Come to think of it, kind of like the situation now.

But I'm interested in how the "leverage" factor would work. How are you going to stop mega-national corporations dealing with those countries on your shit list. Think they'll stop making the easy bucks because Dubya says so?

Most of the turmoil going on in the world today has a healthy contribution from/because of big business. It's they who call the shots. It's they who made rich lunatics like Osama.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 12:22 PM

Well, GUEST, I don't think anyone wants to invite Al Qaida to a peace summit. One need not meet all the demands of a radical fringe in order to stabalize the region, or at least get it on that track. Al Qaida simply won't survive in any meaningful way if the region develops a more friendly attitude toward the west and they can't gain new recruits.

As for the leverage I mentioned, there are legal precendents for economic embargoes. But it'd really be best to avoid that kind of thing since it hurts Americans, too. For our erstwhile allies, withdrawing military aid alone could be a powerful incentive.

It's true that corporations like the Carlyle Group routinely break the law and deal with countries and people with whom it's illegal. But it's also true that we don't make any attempts to investigate or punish those companies which do, and frequently reward them with government contracts. Cleaning up corruption and crime starts at home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 01:55 PM

MAKE THE PIE HIGHER
By George W. bush

I think we all agree, the past is over
This is still a dangerous world
It's a world of madmen and uncertainty
and potential mental losses

Rarely is the question asked
Is our children learning?
Will the highways of the internet
become more few?

How many hands have I shaked?
They misunderestimate me.
I am a pitbull on the pantleg
of opportunity.
I know that the human being
and the fish can coexist

Families is where our nation finds hope
where our wings take dream
Put food on your family!
Knock down the tollbooth!

Vulcanize society!

Make the pie higher! Make the pie higher!

Composed by a Washington Post journalist of
actual bush quotes

Sung by Joan Baez in concert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:01 PM

If we could start a Carlyle scandal, it owuld do a lot to make the Burning Bush pull in his horns some, wouldn't it?

Love to see the expose on that one!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:10 PM

My exact point, Amos, about how the media is asleep at the wheel. And where do all these arms that folks are using against each other and us come from? The good ol' US of A. Yeah, they set up a number of dummy corporations and play the pea under the shell game but the US is the No. 1 supplier of the world's supply of arms.

Might of fact, many of the bullets that will rip thru our kids bodies when Junior attacks will have "Made in the USA" all over 'em.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:30 PM

A pitbull on the pantleg of opportunity, indeed!! LOL!! Thanks for the grin, Jaze!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:56 PM

I'm sure that line alone will go down in infamy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 04:23 PM

"I am a pitbull on the pantleg of opportunity." Who, among his illustrious writers, do you suppose wrote that gem?? I mean, that's more than just a mangle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 04:25 PM

I would say, judging from the quality, that it was a piece of native rather than imported code...

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 05:07 PM

Well, I like it. Both images suit him. Neither one very complimentary...


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 07:13 PM

Did this show up around here yet?

Sung to the tune "If You're Happy And You Know It Clap Your Hands"


If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq.
If the markets hurt your Mama, bomb Iraq.
If the terrorists are Saudi
And the bank takes back your Audi
And the TV shows are bawdy,
Bomb Iraq.
 
If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq.
And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.
If the smoking gun ain't smokin'
We don't care, and we're not jokin'.
That Saddam will soon be croakin',
Bomb Iraq.
 
Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq.
From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections;
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions,
Bomb Iraq.
 
While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq.
Yay! the clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq.
If the ozone hole is growing,
Some things we prefer not knowing.
(Though our ignorance is showing),
Bomb Iraq.
 
So here's one for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq.
From his favorite little laddy, bomb Iraq.
Saying 'no' would look like treason.
It's the Hussein-hunting season.
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 07:26 PM

Yer amazing, Amos, bomb Iraq...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 12:44 AM

Bobert: you have the weirdest ideas. Do you live at a unusually high altitude there in West Virginia?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Troll
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 01:09 AM

Yeah Bobert, I was around in the 60's and 70's and I remember the reports and documentaries etc. They appeared like mushrooms in a cow pasture after a good rain and disapeared about as fast as hash brownies at a love-in to make way for the next "scandal of the week".And in many cases they were forgotten in the rush to scoop the opposition. There was no follow-up. It was tabloid journalism at its finest.
And because we no longer have that kind of sensationalism, investigative reporting is dead?R.I.P.
And just who are the billions in PR t be spent on? Saddam?
I can see it now..."Attend the Emergency Peace Summit next month. All the best dictators will be there! Don't want Kim Il Jung to think you aren't with it? Come to the Emergency Peace Summit!"
Yeah! That ought to work just fine.
Refuse to sell or buy from them? Someone else will step in to meet the demand. Witness France and Iraq.
I realize that some will say that this is refusing to "think outside the box", But I think it's simply a bad idea. I don't have to eat an entire egg to know if it's bad or not . One bite will usually suffice.
Come up with a good, concrete plan to bring all the parties togetherand I'll concede that you may have something.
In fact, I'll even give you a starter. How about "Be at the summit next month or we will turn your capital into a slag heap thereby removing you and yours from the equation."
A trifle extreme perhaps but it gives you a baseline of sorts.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:44 AM

Nicole, As long as there are nations within the region (Iran & Iraq) that refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist, then any peace summit is doomed to fail, because you have no starting point for any negotiation or compromise.

As for Al-Qaeda, they are the ones who, if the letter states their case succinctly, desire the destruction of the United States but also the overthrow of many of the governments of countries in the middle east. Al-Qaeda, Hizbolla, et al, will not simply go away - that is why they have to taken on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 09:34 AM

Amos - great parody! Really gave me a chuckle ... it SOOOOO moronic!

Thanks - daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 12:15 PM

It is not necessary that every nation agree at the same time to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. A peace summit simply needs to take a step towards that goal. If the Palestinian Authority made believable and enforceable agreements to try to control terrorism, that would be a very good start.

As for Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah, they will go away when they no longer have support, not when anyone associated with them is sitting in a jail in Cuba.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Troll
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 12:36 PM

Lurker, you speak as though Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah were entities unto themselves. They are not. They are organizations made up of individuals and as long as any of those individuals remains at large they present a danger.
Their "patrons" if you will, simply allow them to conduct world-wide operations. Their existance is not dependent on these patrons; they only increase the extent of the carnage.
As long as a few people beileve in their goals, organizations like Al-Qaeda will exist and be dangerous.

troll


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 01:32 PM

Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah are organizations formed around misery and alienation. Surely we as world citizens and international peace keepers can initiate compassionate change all over the world. The first step, is to stop picking fights...IMHO... When it is said that "pride precedeth a fall", I would be found thinking of arrogance and self-righteous behavior. Are we smart enough to admit how moronic our foriegn policy appears these days? Or, are we so moronic that even the thought that we might be "setting a bad example"... makes us lash out with spiteful violence?;^) ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 03:05 PM

TTR: When you ask, "Are we so moronic, ...our foriegn policy moronic ...etc.," are you suggesting that moronic is the norm? If so, GWB being a moron would not be so bad would it? *G*

Troll: Bobert and others have been on this "Summit" jag for quite awhile. As though there haven't been joint meetings up the kazoo between Israel and the Palestinians already with absolutely no satisfactory result. The fact that many of the leaders who would be invited to attend would not even sit down a the same table together has nothing to do with it. They just should, that'a all, or so Bobert and his followers seem to think. Keep in mind, though, that Bobert suffers from a high altitude malady and it affects his thought process. *G*

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 06:46 PM

Hiya DougR! I feel nervous brandishing the term moronic, yet, since the thread is all about it, I've simply incorporated it into a 'snake eating it's tail' metephor... I am not in any way saying or implying that everyone is moronic... It seems you took my words out of context, and did your own little spin. Could you do me a favor, Doug..., would you please reread my previous post? Then, instead of simply having a little 'duck shoot' with it,... maybe try to find the good hearted meaning that I know is contained therein... Thanks, and Happy Holidays! ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 07:25 PM

ttr: Ya gotta forgive, Doug. His lexdexia kicks in arounf the holidays and it renders him incapible of *actual reading*. Yeah, he looks at a page of words and only sees a handfull of 'em. Worse yet, he won't ake his meds! Bad Dougie... Bad...

Speaking of being off the meds, troll has forgotten to take his memory pills again. He thinks that the 60's documentaries were merely "sensationalistic" and *tabloidish* as compared to today, where investigative reporting has been fine tuned into an art. Give me a break, troll. No one, other than perhaps you, sees it that way. Don't believe me? Start you a thread entitled "Contempory Investigative Reporting by the American Press". Not only do they not report much news any more but it is so squewed toward the right.

I'm sure that you have no respect for Walter Cronkite but I heard him a couple of years ago talking about just this. He mentioned that news has moved toward "entertainment" and talked about the difficulties that they had in the 60's paring down *real news* into the 20 some minutes they have to do their half and hour segment.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Troll
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 11:42 PM

Bobert, I recieved my degree in Journalism from the University of Florida in 1969. I had then and have now a great deal of respect for Mr. Cronkite.I agree that the news has moved toward entertainment but television is not the only medium by which the news is disceminated. There is good, solid investigative reporting going on all the time in the print media.
I guess that the problem there is that too many people don't have the time to read anything but the sports page.
Radio and TV are passive as far as the listener/viewer is concerned. Print demands involvment and attention to detail.
There was much good reporting in the 60's and 70's but there was a lot that was garbage;just like it is today. The problem is, Bobert, that they aren't investigating the things you want to see investigated, and, when they do, they aren't arriving at the conclusions you would like to see.
Therefore, your claim that,aside from Pacifica, there is no investigative reporting anymore.
That couldn't be because Pacifica caters to your biases could it?
NAH.

troll

BTW, I don't take memory pills. I do, however, take medication for both severe depression and a mild bi-polar condition. And they take care of our problem nicely, thank you!

troll *G*


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 06:36 PM

troll: Well,you are right in accusing me of having biases. I own up to them, but I don't have (and you have not accused me of having) prejudges. I scour the Washington Post dialy and also skim thru the right winged Washington Times.

My point is that a lot of what is written depends on Press releases and press conferences and "unidentified sources within the_________ (fill in you own agency). The governemnt should not hold the position of *producing* the bulk of the news thru their actions with the media. That's lazy on the media's part...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: NicoleC
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 04:12 PM

Troll, I agree about the quality of print media vs. TV and radio, but I don't think that folks don't have time to read anything but the sports page, I think they don't make the time. If you look at the TV ratings, every night there's a whole lotta TVs turned on and brains turned off by people who insist that they don't have time -- time to cook, time to shop, time to spend with their family, time to go to church or work at a local charity...

I Do see, occassionally, some great investigative reporting, but it's rare. When it comes to the government though, the press usually chooses to only report, unquestioningly, that that comes out of the mouth of Ari Fleisher. Investigation the government just doesn;t happen, and while investigative journalism on the content of diapers may be important to some folks, I think that the biggest value of a free press comes from informing citizens about the governemnt they vote, or are being askedto vote, for.

It's not a GWB problem because it's been growing for years, but it has certainly gotten a lot worse lately.

Fascinating article here on radio programming:
Talking Back to Talk Radio


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 04:48 PM

...and why do americans enlist to their fancies...
with sit-coms and violent sexy romancies?
It's sad, but it's simple, said a teen pinching pimple;
Problems predicted presenting no chancies...

...so where is the hope that all people can cherish?
with happier joyousness rich but not garish...
In attics and basements, wings waiting replecements
Who've learned how to love through the bullisly bearish...


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 06:21 PM

From the Calgary Herald, Letters to the Editor, Dec. 8, 2002:

"I guess choosing the word "moron" to describe George Bush was probably a little undisciplined, but give Francoise Ducros a break; she was probably tired and searching for an efficient term.
It is quicker to say "moron" than it is to say, "war-mongering, anti-environment, big money-loving, isolationist, pompous, civil rights-steamrolling, dictatorial, imperialistic, anit-intellectual, silver-spoon-sucking, 'compassionate conservative,' cowboy simpleton."

Too bad the writer included cowboy, but otherwise he is right on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 07:58 PM

Ahhh, GUEST, I'm gonna have to question the "compassionate conservative" for Junior is neiter. He has no compassion. None. There is only one person in the world that he cares about and that is "himself". And he is the most "liberal" politcian in modern times, in that he want to *change* so many things. Conservative, on the other hand, have respect for the status quo. Junior has no need for the status quo, None. Might of fact, he is on record of saying something along the lines that he'd be happy if he were just a dictator. Yeah, he laughed afterwards but folks don't say that lind of stuff if it hasn't crossed their minds...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:39 AM

Gail Sheehey diagnosed Bush as dyslexic. He later went on record as saying "The woman who knew I had dyslexia -- I never interviewed her."    I pretty dyslexic rebuttal, actually.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: DougR
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 09:02 PM

Bobert! Take your medication!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Its' official Bush is a moron
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 10:53 PM

DougR !!!

Time for your stimulants!!!

A


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 26 May 9:02 AM EDT

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