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Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz

MairSea 27 Nov 02 - 11:04 AM
IanC 26 Nov 02 - 11:42 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 11:31 AM
IanC 26 Nov 02 - 11:27 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 11:03 AM
IanC 26 Nov 02 - 10:55 AM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 10:36 AM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 10:35 AM
IanC 26 Nov 02 - 10:30 AM
IanC 26 Nov 02 - 10:02 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 09:50 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 09:27 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 09:15 AM
Jeri 26 Nov 02 - 09:12 AM
Jeri 26 Nov 02 - 09:09 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 09:07 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 09:02 AM
Jeri 26 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 08:55 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 08:50 AM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 08:49 AM
Jeri 26 Nov 02 - 08:44 AM
Jeri 26 Nov 02 - 08:42 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 08:32 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 08:26 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 08:23 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 08:14 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 08:13 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 08:09 AM
Nigel Parsons 26 Nov 02 - 08:07 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 08:06 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 08:03 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 08:00 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 07:58 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 07:55 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 07:52 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 07:47 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 07:46 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 07:44 AM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 07:43 AM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 07:40 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 07:40 AM
greg stephens 26 Nov 02 - 07:33 AM
IanC 26 Nov 02 - 07:31 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 07:30 AM
Wolfgang 26 Nov 02 - 07:29 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 07:28 AM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Nov 02 - 07:22 AM
DMcG 26 Nov 02 - 07:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: MairSea
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 11:04 AM

IanC

Many, many thanks for the information. Sorry I have been unable to access Mudcat for many hours computer problems! I will get a proper look later when things are not so busy.   MANY THANKS again.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 11:42 AM

MairSea

There's a copy of "The Volunteer Organist" in Levy. The cover's not online, so I've started it at Page 1.

:-)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 11:31 AM

5+ hours. Well, we've done worse...


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Subject: Lyr Add: Flowers of The Forest (different words)
From: IanC
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 11:27 AM

Well done, DMcG!

A - After The Ball
B - Babes In The Wood
C - Cushie Butterfield
D - Don't Get Married, Girls
E - Eskdale Hare
F - Flowers Of The Forest
G - Grandfather's Clock
H - Henry Martin
I - I Will Give My Love An Apple
J - Jolly Beggarman
K - Kelly, The Boy From Killanne
L - The Lambton Worm
M - Master McGrath
N - Nottingham Ale
O - Our Captain Cried All Hands
P - A Parting Glass
Q - Queensland Overlander (Queensland Rover)
R - Road (And The Miles) to Dundee
S - St James Infirmary
T - Three Jolly Rogues of Lynn
U - Underneath Her Apron
V - The Volunteer Organist
W - What A Friend We Have In Jesus
X - The XXIII February
Y - Ye Cannae Shove Y'r Granny Off A Bus
Z - (I'd Like To Swim In The) Zuider Zee


Here's some notes on "Flowers of The Forest" and another version of the lyrics.

"Flowers Of The Forest"


There are three different songs to the old tune.

Jane (Jean) Elliot (1727-1805) wrote the poem "The Flowers of the Forest: A Lament for Flodden" and published it anonymously circa 1755. It was, at the time, thought to be an ancient surviving ballad. However, Burns suspected it was an imitation, and Burns, Ramsay and Sir Walter Scott eventually discovered who wrote the song. It is the most popular version.

Lament For Flodden
by Jane Elliot (1727-1805) - written circa 1755

I've heard them liltin', at the ewe milkin,
'Lasses a-liltin' before dawn of day.
Now there's a moanin', on ilka green loanin'.
The flowers of the forest are a' wede away.

As boughts in the mornin', nae blithe lads are scornin',
Lasses are lonely and dowie and wae.
Nae daffin', nae gabbin', but sighin' and sobbin',
Ilk ane lifts her leglin, and hies her away.

At e'en in the gloamin', nae swankies are roamin',
'Mang stacks wi' the lasses at bogle to play.
But ilk maid sits drearie, lamentin' her dearie,
The flowers of the forest are a' wede away.

In har'st at the shearin' nae youths now are jeerin'
Bandsters are runkled, and lyart, or grey.
At fair or at preachin', nae wooin', nae fleecin',
The flowers of the forest are a' wede away.

Dool for the order sent our lads to the Border,
the English for ance by guile wan the day.
The flowers of the forest, that fought aye the foremost,
The prime of our land lie cauld in the clay.

We'll hae nae mair liltin', at the ewe milkin',
Women and bairns are dowie and wae.
Sighin' and moanin' on ilka green loanin',
The flowers of the forest are all wede away.

According to The Scots Musical Museum there is a fragment of an old ballad in the Skene Manuscript titled The flowres of the Forrest, and an air so titled appeared in Oswald's collection and several others. However, the old ballad did not survive. The earliest version was the one below, by Mrs. Cockburn. According to the Museum, a man known to Mrs. Cockburn heard a shepherd playing a flute. Fascinated by the air, he learned it was The Flowers of the Forest. He committed the air to memory and communicated it to Mrs. Cockburn. She recognized the tune and knew some lines of the old ballad. He prevailed upon her to write new words.

Flowers of The Forest
Alison Rutherford Cockburn (1712-1794)

I've seen the smiling
Of fortune beguiling,
I've tasted her pleasures,
And felt her decay;
Sweet is her blessing,
And kind her caressing,
But now they are fled
And fled far away.

I've seen the forest
Adorned the foremost,
Wi' flowers o' the fairest
Baith pleasant and gay,
Sae bonnie was their blooming,
Their scent the air perfuming,
But now they are withered away.

I've seen the morning,
With gold hills adorning,
And loud tempests storming,
Before parting day,
I've seen Tweed's silver streams,
Glitt'ring in the sunny beams,
Grow drumlie and dark,
As they roll'd on their way;

O fickle fortune!
Why this cruel sportin?
Oh! Why thus perplex
Us poor sons of a day?
Thy frown canna fear me,
Thy smile canno cheer me,
Since the flowers o' the forest
Are a' wede away.

Mrs. John Hunter, wife of the famous anatomical professor, published a volume of Poems in 1802. Her song, Adieu Ye Streams that Swiftly Glide, appeared in The Lark, in 1765, as a proposed setting to the old air The Flowers of the Forest, and it is the third set to that tune in volume I of Johnson's Museum.

The Battle of Flodden Field took place in 1513. It is frequently said that James IV attacked England when Henry VIII invaded France, to honour the alliance between Scotland and France. In fact, James was married to Henry's sister and a treaty of friendship existed between England and Scotland at the time.

The Battle of Flodden was a disaster for the Scots, with estimates of Scottish losses numbering as high as ten thousand. Numerous nobles were killed in the battle, including King James. The "Flowers of the Forest" in this and the following song are the men of Ettrick Forest in Selkirkshire who fell at the battle.

:-(


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 11:03 AM

What a friend we have in Jesus?


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 10:55 AM

Some more of me notes:

"After The Ball" ... Charles K Harris's (1892) tearjerker was much parodied and it's the popular parody I was thinking about here. Noel Coward used the title for a musical adaptation of "Lady Windermere's Fan" in 1954 and must surely have known about both the original and the parodies.

"Babes In The Wood" ... a traditional song which is much older than the pantomimes based on it. The ballad (with melody?) appears to have been published in Norwich by Thomas Millington in 1595, though Bishop Percy (Reliques) attributed it to Robert Tarleton (1601).

"Henry Martin" (Andrew Barton) ... If lasting ballads of great battles are few, those of more or less mythologized flurries with pirate ships abound, and some seem well nigh indestructible. During the present century, there is hardly a traditional singer of note, from Henry Burstow to Sam Larner, who had not his good version of Henry Martin, a piece that has remained a favourite through many vicissitudes since it was first printed (in 82 verses!) at the outset of the seventeenth century, and sold from cheap stationers' halls in St Paul's churchyard and elsewhere. [...] In the course of time, passing by word of mouth from one country singer to another, the song grew shorter, the long-winded narrative pared down till only a swift account of the piracy remained. Perhaps through mishearing, the captain's name was altered first to Andy Bardan and then to Henry Martin. The piece remains one of the most-sung ballads of our time. (Lloyd, England 259)


Anyone up for "W - Lord, what an ally. The panacea is in prayer." ... DMcG got a good one, but it's not mine!

:-)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 10:36 AM

The last post was of course for the thread name game thread.

Wolfgang (who does thoroughly enjoy these threads)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 10:35 AM

A sincere plea to Mudcat oldtimers / Not ANOTHER alphabet quiz

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 10:30 AM

Well, looks like it ... oh no! not quite. W was a good answer, but not the one I have. Anyone want to try for it?

Summary so far:

A - After The Ball
B - Babes In The Wood
C - Cushie Butterfield
D - Don't Get Married, Girls
E - Eskdale Hare
F - Flowers Of The Forest
G - Grandfather's Clock
H - Henry Martin
I - I Will Give My Love An Apple
J - Jolly Beggarman
K - Kelly, The Boy From Killanne
L - The Lambton Worm
M - Master McGrath
N - Nottingham Ale
O - Our Captain Cried All Hands
P - A Parting Glass
Q - Queensland Overlander (Queensland Rover)
R - Road (And The Miles) to Dundee
S - St James Infirmary
T - Three Jolly Rogues of Lynn
U - Underneath Her Apron
V - The Volunteer Organist
W - ??
X - The XXIII February
Y - Ye Cannae Shove Y'r Granny Off A Bus
Z - (I'd Like To Swim In The) Zuider Zee


:-)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 10:02 AM

Sorry

went to lunch!!!

back in 5 mins!

:-)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:50 AM

L - Lambton Worm. Angles as in fishing and the worm is cut into three halves.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:27 AM

L - Lobachevsky, perhaps?


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:15 AM

I think, Jeri, we're both slightly out. I have reread IanC grammatical construction of the I clue, and I think we ought to go for the version called "I gave my love an apple". He can be very picky when saying whether we're right or not.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:12 AM

Greg, you may be hand delivering your answers but I'm sending them in on courier snails.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:09 AM

Oh heck -
I = I Will Give My Love an Apple


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:07 AM

Of course: "I will give my love an apple"


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:02 AM

Nice one Jeri. Now how about this lad with his silly angles?? I haven't got an inkling what we're on about. And what did Eve do to Adam? Introduced him to knowledge and/or sex? That doesnt seem to lead me anywhere.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM

I think J is The Jolly Beggar.

"He would not lie within the barn nor yet within the byre
But he would in the corner lie down by the kitchen fire"


If he hadn't been so picky about sleeping in the kitchen, she never would have enountered him naked in the night and slept with him thinking he was just pretending to be a beggar.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:59 AM

Invitation to Lubberland (without conviction)

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:55 AM

XXIIrd of February was Ian's and DMcG's collaboration for X. Sounds true too.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:50 AM

I think N and X are done: Ian hasnt adjudicated, but I'm pretty confident about Nottingham Ale and XXIII. K is definitely done.
I dont know about Johnnie faa, I'm not at all confident. I and L are still untouched I think.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:49 AM

Kelly from Killane and
Nottingham Ale have been mentioned

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:44 AM

Oops - and J, if it's not Johnnie Faa


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:42 AM

I believe these remain:
I, K, L, N, and X


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:32 AM

Are J and L the only ones left now?


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:26 AM

And while I'm on the subject, it wasnt on the earth it was on the floor. And far from always being punctual, it's not been running for more than 100 years. Get a grip, IanC!!


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:23 AM

Just done a little research on Grandfather's Clock. I think I'm right: though it has been recorded both as "too large" and "too high" as well, Henry Clay Work's original words are indeed "too tall". And that definitely conforms to the standard pedantic nitpicker's distinction between the meanings of "high" and "tall".


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:14 AM

Though I am well aware,of course, that folk-songs exist in many versions.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:13 AM

Another little item for Pedants Corner: IanC, I think you will find that in your clue for G, it should be "too tall", not "too high".


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:09 AM

G - Grandfather's Clock


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:07 AM

Z could also be "I am a Zider drinker".
DMcG: there is a reference to the Zuider Zee in a song for which I acn't recall the title (Possibly "The windmill's turning") The verse:

In Holland there's a smiling face
Beside the Zuider Zee,
With eye so light, the blues so bright
They shine across the sea
Her eyes forever to the sun,
A tulip in her hair
And when she's sad she starts to sing
To lovers everywhere

CH:
The The windmill's turning
My heart is yearning
In dreams I'm bringing to you our love refrain
The The windmill's turning
My heart is yearning
And in my heart dear, I know we'll meet again

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:06 AM

Well Im flailing about here..if J isnt O no John or Black Jack Davy, how about Johnnie Faa?


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:03 AM

... now running for 2h 20 minutes ... What's the latest position, Ian?


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:00 AM

TI've a bit lost track of the Z situation, but if nobody's said this its Adge Cutler's "I'd like to swim in the Zider Zee", or some variant spelling of that.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:58 AM

Sorry, I've just re-raed the earlier thread for K. My K is, I see, entirey wrong.


(sulks in corner)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:55 AM

K still needs clearing up, I see, since Ian needed Greg to explain his answer

Has anybody here seen Kelly?
K,E,double-l, y
....
Kelly from the Isle of Man


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:52 AM

So we have to share the reward three ways now, do we? (Although IanC has disqualified answers for smaller mistakes before!)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:47 AM

Late entry for Pedants Corner: the Road and the Miles to Dundee


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:46 AM

Road to Dundee I havent got a computer so I had to deliver this by hand


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:44 AM

No, its because you wasted precious seconds typing 'due to the hint'!!

:-)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:43 AM

Only because you're closer to Mudcat Central, DMcG.

Wolfgang :)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:40 AM

due to the hint:
R- Road to Dundee

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:40 AM

R - Road to Dundee


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:33 AM

IanC always resorts to Roman numerals when he's short of X's. I think you have it, DmcG, it's XXIII. congratulations, I've been cheating and using computer searches and got nowhere with Turkish ships and Xmas and things. However, I did find that the Russians sank seven Turkish ships at the battle of Sinope, which was interesting, though not in late winter(Nov 1853).


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: IanC
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:31 AM

Well done ...

E - Eskdale Hare
Q - Queensland Overlander (Queensland Rover)

R's Scottish!

Some notes

"Cushie Butterfield" ...one of George (Geordie) Ridley's classic tyneside music hall songs, written to a tradiytional tune. "Cush" or "Cushie" is a commonly used word for "Cow" in most of rural England and "Butterfield" no doubt also adds to the amusement. George Ridley was born in 1834 and died, at the age of 30, in 1864.

"Don't Get Married, Girls" ... Leon Rosselson's dig at wedded bliss. Leon started writing songs seriously (and humourously) in the early 1950s and hasn't stopped yet. His song The World Turned Upside Down is sung across the globe, and dozens of others are standars on the political song scene.

"The Eskdale Hare" - Written by Gus Gomersall. The only version I have is sung by "Swan Arcade". Eskdale is just south of Scafell Pike in the (English) Lake District.


:-)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:30 AM

W - With God on Our Side (I can't believe we all took so long!)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:29 AM

Q: yes, that must be it, in the DT as Queensland overlanders.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:28 AM

The '23rd of February' describes a battle with seven Turkish Men-o-War but I can't think of an X reference. That must be it, though (Late winter)


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:22 AM

Is Q Queensland Drovers ? Not in DT though.


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Subject: RE: Quiz: Not ANOTHER Alphabet Quiz
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:20 AM

Declan: That sounds right. There is a version of "Lowlands Low", I am sure, which mentions the "Zuider Zee". Can't find it though ...


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