eBay (for guitar purchase)

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: GUEST,Lanfranc at the orifice
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 06:45 AM

I've bought two guitars on eBay, a Washburn WG2S and an Outback travel guitar. On both occasions I decided to drive out to meet the vendor to seal the deal.

My intention was that, if the instruments were not as described or unsatisfactory, I could walk away from it (to hell with adverse feedback!) and only be out the cost of a few gallons of petrol.

On both occasions the instruments were just as described, I played them before parting with the cash, and I was eminently satisfied.

I am currently considering selling my 1964 Guild Starfire II on eBay, so I'll find out what it's like from the vendor's perspective.

Caveat emptor is a good motto!

Alan

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: GUEST,P.T. Barnum
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 04:47 AM

Richard -- didn't Dr. Spooner also have something to say about a 'shining wit'?

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 04:27 AM

Ellen, I did. The guy had great feedback, hundreds of them on a wide range of items, including a lot that said the guitar (in each case, and as far as I saw all electrics) was just as described. So I knew he was a trader, with a fringe interest in music and a good reputation.

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: bflat
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:24 AM

My friend and I have had success. He has a great band and is working, a pretty good musician. He bought several times without any trouble. I bought once, a Taylor, no problem. You've got to read the comments from other transactions to give yourself some measure of comfort.

Ellen

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge with no cookie
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 06:14 PM

OK - interrupted twice. The seller had huge amounts of good feedback. The full story on the condition is this: -

1.        It is badly bellied. I measure the belly at about 0.3 inch in the middle of the lower bout with a corresponding depression round the soundhole. Some of the kerfing is no longer perfectly flush, and these things, coupled with the rust on the guitar case fittings leads me to suspect storage in damp conditions. Inside the face, now I have inspected with a mirror, there are many repair patches, and one ladderbrace is quite badly split.
2.        The truss rod turns to no effect. There is a forward bow in the neck, measured in the usual way, of about 0.13 inch. So the truss rod is stripped or broken.
3.        In an attempt (presumably) to fix the action, the saddle has been notched almost down to the bridge plate, and one end broken off.
4.        Some of the inlays on the neck (which look like plastic to me, not mother of pearl) are lifting.
5.        The finish on either side of the upper bout (about by the 18 fret) is badly marked. It looks like scratching rather than the resting of fingers and thumbs.
6.        The finish around the bridge plate has been badly re-lacquered. It looks as if the original finish was sanded off, and there seems to be stray glue. The inner bridgeplate is now a crude piece of plywood. I therefore think the bridge plate has lifted and been less than perfectly repaired.
7.        One machine head is no longer properly attached.
8.        The serial number has been rubbed out.
9.        The slot has been badly filed (or gouged) on the forward edge to take a wider saddle and will require routing to create a flat bottom and even width. This may have to be pretty trickily done to avoid upsetting the tuning at the octave too much (or maybe get it back to where it ought to be).

I have had a bit of a winge at the sellar and he said: -

"Thanks for your prompt E-mail. I'm sorry the guitar isn't quite up to what you expected but it seems future research might reveal some added bonuses. I have been a professional musician for 30 odd years and I have a weakness for old instruments, particularly guitars. However my passion doesn't stretch beyond the playing of them. I have very little knowledge of their construction or weaknesses beyond their playability. I bought the guitar in an auction in Cullompton, Devon. With it was an early Kay electric guitar which I have kept and in fact use on stage. I was unaware of the finer faults which your experience has revealed, I simply found it rather an awkward instrument, although I liked the tone very much. Faced with the option of spending more money on having it re-set etc or selling it. I chose the latter, mainly because it was surplus to requirements.
Regarding its history, I was told it came from a private vendor - not trade, and it had been discovered in a spare room on moving house. I can guarantee you that It comes to you exactly as it came to me, that is I haven't attempted any repairs, improvements or serial number shenanigans!
I wish you luck with it and I hope your misgivings prove unfounded."


Now the trick is this. Apart from the split ladderbrace and the patchwork top, the repairs are likely to cost fron GBP 135 to GBP 300, and since that would include putting new longitudinal braces in, the split in the ladderbrace is not then likely to be a problem. I may even be able to get away without a neck set, and if so take about GBP 65 off the top figure above.

The X-braced ones are very, very, rare, (like only 6 imported to the UK in '62 or '63, and 2 known destroyed) and these ladderbraces are rare or very rare. I've seen two other x-braces and none of these ladderbraces before. The X-braces sold for 99% of the price of the equivalent Gibson at the time. Within 6 months of my wife buying her identical (but x-braced) instrument she was offered 4 times the price of a Gibson D45 for it. Some big names who played our folk club have all much liked my wife's virtually identical (but x-braced) instrument. A J200 owner we know used to prefer it to his J200. I had a good look in Denmark Street the other week for soundalikes - not one. Two soundasgoods (but different), a Collings priced at GBP3,200, and a Santa Cruz at GBP2,700. Her instrument might be worth a bit on the heavy side of GBP 1K, or maybe even 1.5K.

So (I think) if I get this one fixed, and if I could get what it was worth (don't lecture me on supply and demand, I know that) I would still be many many quids in. I was ready to bid up to GBP 750 (thinking it was an x-braced) and it did not come to even a fraction of that. So I still think I'm ahead at the end of the day, but it has caused me a lot of heart-searching as I find each next fault.

I think I'm going to keep it, get it fixed, and still believe I came out on top. But if I'd been bid up to what the market price of an instrument in the stated condition had been, I would have been a lot less happy.

All's well that ends well. (maybe)

If the seller is reading this, I have not yet waived my rights in respect of the misdescription, and if you sugggest I have, I'll post your name!

I'll post back as the repairs get done...

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: Steve-o
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 04:30 PM

I'm six out of seven for instruments on e-Bay. I've bought an SS Stewart archtop, a Yamaha 12-string, a bouzouki, a Yamaha classical, an SS Stewart banjo, and a couple of old Kay archtops. Only got burned on one of the Kay archtops (neck separated from the body), which the seller claimed ignorance about, and I believe she was truly ignorant. It just didn't show up in the pix. If YOU know what you're looking at you will seldom get burned, and it's better to ask for close-up pictures than to ask questions. NicoleC is quite right- the vast majority know exactly what they have, and you should be suspicious of the "...looks like a dreadnought, but I'm not sure..." guys. Sorry your experience with the Hagstrom was so bad- hope you didn't pay much for it.

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: NicoleC
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 01:34 PM

That auction falls under the "gee, I'm going to pretend I don't know anything about instruments" category. The vast majority of dealers on eBay know EXACTLY what they have, and when they pretend not too, I get suspicious. Someone who says they are a professional musician but isn't sure if it's a dreadnought? Did you try to get the seller to take it back based on the fact that he clearly lied to you about the instrument's condition?

I've been mostly happy with my eBay experiences, although I've run into a couple of dorks. But I guess I'm too chicken to purchase an instrument there... although I do a lot of looking!

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 01:15 PM

Hmm, twitchy trigger finger.

3.   The saddle had been notched down to the bridgeplate already and one end was broken off.

4.    The action was indeed rather over a quarter of an inch, not from the face of the fretboard but from the top of the fret, at the octave.

5.    The lacquer on the face adjacent to the

(more to follow - interrupted)

Subject: RE: Ebay (for guitar purchase)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 01:12 PM

Description of item on ebay: -

"A vintage Hagstrom guitar Made in Sweden in the 60's. I believe this is called the dreadnought shape. This is obviously the deluxe edition with mother of pearl inlay all along the fretboard and head stock and inlayed signature. This is a lovely quality guitar,with a rich tone. very similar to the Gibson J45 Deluxe of the same period which was favoured by John Lennon. Damage: one of the machine heads has been replaced. it needs a new set of string pegs. There is a hairline crack at the back of the head stock which I presume is in the varnish since it doesn't appear to be structural. Other than that it's just the odd scratches & wear you'd expect of a guitar this age. It comes with its original case which is very scruffy but functional"

I asked: -

"May I ask you some questions?
Has it been gigged?
How high is the action at the 12th fret?
Are there any rattles or buzzes in play?
How much crazing of the lacquer is there?
Is the neck straight?
Has it got the original nut and saddle?"

I was answered: -

"1. you may
2 not by me
3 slightly less than 1/4" (average)
4 strings 3 & 6 have some buzz although i shouldn't imagine it's serious - for a start it has old strings on.
5 no crazing but a few horizontal varnish cracks around the bridge area
6 there is some slight rippling to the neck but i would say it was straight enough. there is a very slight discrepancy between the 12th harmonic and the 12th note but it seems to tune ok
7 there's no evidence that i can see that the nut or saddle have been replaced - they certainly haven't been since i've had it.

To conclude, neither the fretboard nor the frets are overworn and it is quite playable as is, although for gigging i would recommend it be set up again by someone who knows what they are doing. i'm not a dealer or expert in guitars, i'm shedding this one as it is surplus to requirements.

i hope this helps"

It turns out the guy is a professional musician (he says).

When it arrived: -

1.    It was badly bellied (paerhaps almost half inch belly behind the bridgeblock, and a quarter low in front)
2.    The forward bow in the neck (tested in the usual way) was about an eighth of an inch or a bit more.
3.

Subject: RE: Ebay
From: GUEST,Richard_Bridge
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:45 AM

PT Barnum has obviously read my other posts.

Is he familiar with the alleged rendering by the Reverend Dr Spooner of the expression "Shafts of wit"?

I'll detail all the faults when I get a moment

Subject: RE: Ebay
From: okthen
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:45 AM

I didn't buy the electric martin on ebay for 500$, the photo looked good but at that price you've really got to see it. Anyone any idea if that was a good price? I nearly posted a thread about it but had so many other things to do.

Subject: RE: Ebay
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:02 AM

I haven't bought any instruments on Ebay, but I did by a nylon-string guitar via one of the online classified services. It showed up with the bridge split in two along the saddle slot. And it was NOT damaged in shipping. I had printed a copy of the jpg and the damage was right there in the photo if you knew what to look for. What I had thought was a rather wide saddle was a regular saddle almost lying on its side. The seller didn't say a word about the damage in the ad or in the phone calls I made to arrange payment and shipping. $50 US to replace the bridge.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Ebay
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 07:53 AM

I recently bought a 24 foot steel yacht on eBay, which I'm trying to organise collection of at the moment. Whilst my purchase was amazingly cheap (I was the only bidder who surveyed the vessel), it amazes me how high these bidding duels go. Dead accordions, for example, available in all self-deprecating junk shops for sub fifty quid, seem to go for three times that on eBay.

Subject: RE: Ebay
From: irishajo
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 07:50 AM

I bought a Seagull on ebay. I have no complaints. I'm no guitar expert but it seems fine to me.

Subject: RE: Ebay
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 07:35 AM

I haven't bought an instrument, but I have bought a lot of music books, videos and banjo accessories. All of my experiences have been positive, although I am always anxious until I actually receive the items.

Subject: RE: Ebay
From: GUEST,P.T. Barnum
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 07:31 AM

No, but I just sold some poor sucker a real turkey with a stripped truss rod!

Subject: Ebay (Guitar)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 04:52 AM

Anybody else bought a guitar on ebay?

What was the experience like?

You tell me yours and I'll tell you mine!