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Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel

DigiTrad:
UNRECONSTRUCTED REBEL


20 Jun 98 - 12:44 AM
John Nolan 20 Jun 98 - 01:58 AM
Benjamin Bodhra/nai/ 20 Jun 98 - 08:53 PM
rich r 21 Jun 98 - 04:20 PM
Brad 23 Jun 98 - 11:46 PM
Sorcha 24 Jul 00 - 12:43 PM
Joe Offer 24 Jul 00 - 02:15 PM
chico 25 Jun 05 - 05:01 AM
GUEST,Lighter at work 25 Jun 05 - 09:05 AM
Amos 25 Jun 05 - 09:48 AM
GUEST 25 Jun 05 - 10:02 AM
Le Scaramouche 25 Jun 05 - 10:14 AM
Charley Noble 25 Jun 05 - 11:04 AM
Joe Offer 26 Jun 05 - 02:29 AM
Richard Bridge 26 Jun 05 - 04:58 AM
Le Scaramouche 26 Jun 05 - 05:47 AM
Amos 26 Jun 05 - 10:54 AM
GUEST,Art Thieme 26 Jun 05 - 11:50 PM
GUEST,southern raised 05 Dec 05 - 11:08 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Dec 05 - 12:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 06 Dec 05 - 04:03 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 Dec 05 - 04:48 PM
robomatic 06 Dec 05 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,steve 17 Feb 11 - 09:50 PM
J-boy 17 Feb 11 - 10:56 PM
GUEST,tg in VA 13 Nov 11 - 07:51 PM
Lighter 13 Nov 11 - 08:15 PM
Greg F. 13 Nov 11 - 08:16 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Nov 11 - 10:03 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Nov 11 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,Civil War Nut 30 Mar 13 - 08:08 PM
Amos 30 Mar 13 - 08:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 30 Mar 13 - 09:46 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 30 Mar 13 - 09:50 PM
Lighter 31 Mar 13 - 09:00 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 31 Mar 13 - 01:23 PM
Greg F. 31 Mar 13 - 02:03 PM
michaelr 31 Mar 13 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,Lighter 31 Mar 13 - 04:26 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 31 Mar 13 - 04:40 PM
michaelr 01 Apr 13 - 06:26 PM
Amos 01 Apr 13 - 06:32 PM
Lighter 01 Apr 13 - 07:42 PM
michaelr 01 Apr 13 - 08:02 PM
Lighter 02 Apr 13 - 08:07 AM
Greg F. 02 Apr 13 - 08:23 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Apr 13 - 12:02 PM
Greg F. 02 Apr 13 - 05:16 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Apr 13 - 07:45 PM
Greg F. 02 Apr 13 - 08:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Apr 13 - 11:42 AM
Greg F. 03 Apr 13 - 12:41 PM
Lighter 03 Apr 13 - 01:11 PM
Greg F. 03 Apr 13 - 05:06 PM
Amos 03 Apr 13 - 06:04 PM
Greg F. 03 Apr 13 - 08:08 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Apr 13 - 08:42 PM
Amos 04 Apr 13 - 12:14 AM
mg 04 Apr 13 - 01:02 AM
Lighter 04 Apr 13 - 08:51 AM
Greg F. 04 Apr 13 - 09:07 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Apr 13 - 11:54 AM
Greg F. 04 Apr 13 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,gillymor 05 Apr 13 - 08:30 AM
Lighter 05 Apr 13 - 08:45 AM
Jim Dixon 10 Apr 13 - 03:45 PM
Jim Dixon 10 Apr 13 - 04:35 PM
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Subject: Unreconstructed rebel
From:
Date: 20 Jun 98 - 12:44 AM

Dia dhaoibh

In the song Unreconstructed rebel on the DT db there seems to be two lines missing from one of the verses, like this one: We got three hundred thousand Befo' they conquered us. They died of Southern fever And Southern steel and shot; And I wish it was three million Instead of what we got.

Anyone know the other two lines?

Bui/ochas

Benjamin Bodhra/nai/


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: John Nolan
Date: 20 Jun 98 - 01:58 AM

Three hundred thousand Yankees
Lie dead in Southern dust...

The most withering verse I know (suitable only for singing to historical societies really, as a measure of the bitterness of that time) goes,

And when the war was over
I joined the Ku Klux Klan
And for the Glorious Union
I still don't give a damn
I love to see a nigger
A-hanging from a tree
But if it was a Yankee
It's all the same to me.

That came from an old book in an Atlantan library.


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai/
Date: 20 Jun 98 - 08:53 PM

Thank you sir!!


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: rich r
Date: 21 Jun 98 - 04:20 PM

Here's a few more verses and verse variants for "The Unreconstructed Rebel" (I'm A Good Old Rebel, The Song of the Rebel Soldier, The Old Unreconstructed)

I hates the Yankee nation and everything they do
I hates the Declaration of Independence, too
I hates the glorious Union- 'Tis dripping with our blood
I hates their striped banner, I fit it all I could.

I followed old Mas' Robert for four year, near about
Got wounded in three places and starved at Pint Lookout
(alternate: I fit with Stonewall Jackson, of that there is no doubt
Got wounded in the Wilderness, and starved at Camp Lookout)
I cotched the roomatism a campin' in the snow
But I killed a chance o' Yankees, I'd like to kill some more.

Oh we routed Hooker's Army for the bold Confederacy
And we rode beneath the Stars and Bars in Stuart's Cavalry
We fought against the Yankees and we whipped 'em where we could
And if they would of turned us loose we might have beat 'em good.

Now I hate your starry banner for it's gory with my blood
As for your constitution, suh, to me that's same as mud
We fought that out in Kennesaw amidst the stones and dust
And we got ten thousand Yankees there before the rest got us.

Now I hate your Freedman's Bureau and I hate your boys in blue
That chicken-snaggin, scalawaggin, carpet-baggin' crew
For I am jist a Rebel, suh, and that is all I am
I won't be reconstructed, and I don't give a damn!

We sunk the ship at Sumpter, we broke her plumb in two
And we showed the bully Yankees just what we aimed to do
At a little crick called Bull Run, we took their starry rag
To wipe our horses down with, and I ain't here to brag.

We whupped the best they sent us, and we whupped 'em fair an true
We whupped their German immigrants and they Eyetalians too
We whupped Frogs and Square Heads and all their furrin might
But when the wen and got the Micks, we knew we'd got a fight.

There aren't many left of us who rode out at the start
And them that are, are weary, weak in body, sad of heart
But we fit a fight to tell about, and I am here to say
I'll climb my hoss and folla Marse to hell come any day.

Shout: To hell with you and your federalized abolitionist army!

There is also an alternative second line to the verse cited above by John N - that makes it even more vile if that is possible.

And when it come to lynchin' I was the right-hand man.

I have seen some reports that the song may have started out more as a mocking satire rather than the bitter protestation of defeat that it has become. The most commonly used tune appears to be derived from "Villikins & His Dinah"

rich r


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Brad
Date: 23 Jun 98 - 11:46 PM

The first verse:

Oh, I am a good ol' rebel, yes that's just what I am; For this dear land of "freedom" I do not care a damn; I'm glad I fought against it; I only wish we'd won; And I won't be reconstructed for all the things I've done.


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Subject: Tune Add: UNRECONSTRUCTED REBEL ^^
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Jul 00 - 12:43 PM

T:UNRECONSTRUCTED REBEL
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q: 1/4=130
K:D minor

F2| "Dm7" G2 A2 c2 d2 | "Am" A4 G2 A2 | "Dm" G2 F2 "A7" D2 ^C2| "Bb" D4 z2 c2 | "F" c2 A2 c2 d2 | "C" f4 e2 e2 |"Dm" A2 d2 "A7" d2 ^c2 | "Bb " d4 z2 c2 | "F" c2 A2 c2 d2 | f4 "C#dim" e2 e2 | "Dm" A2 d2 "A7" d2 ^c2 | "Dm" d6 D2 | "Dm7" G2 A2 c2 d2| "Am" A4 G2 A2 | "Dm" G2 F2 "A7" D2 ^C2| "Dm" D8-|D6||

This tune is similar to Joe Bowers but not exactly the same. Lyrics already in DT. ^^


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Subject: RE: Tune Add: UNRECONSTRUCTED REBEL
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Jul 00 - 02:15 PM

I can't get this one to play. ABCMUS says there's an incomplete tempo specification. Can one of you ABC specialists tell us what's wrong?

Also, I'm thinking it's not a good idea to start a separate thread just to add a tune for a song. If there's an existing thread for the song, that's a good place to put it. A thread for adding one tune is not likely to generate a lot of discussion, so the thread is likely to drop off the Forum Menu after just a day. If Susan and I miss it that day, it might get lost. If you plan to post a number of tunes, it might be an idea to start a single thread and post a number of tunes to it. Just change the subject title for each message.

I have mixed feelings about how to post lyrics. I think Stewie's train songs and Conrad's collection of songs would have worked better in one thread, rather than a bunch of separate threads - if the songs are interrelated, it's probably best to post them in a single thread.
On the other hand, Alan's Penguin songs were in separate threads, and that made it easier for Malcolm and others to add their wonderful comments - but note that Alan provided links to tie all the Penguin songs together, and he had that word Penguin in the thread title to help.

I don't have a really good, solid answer about this- but I do have the impression that isolated song and tune postings tend to get lost. Better to put many songs or tunes in a thread full of interrelated songs.
Handling song requests is a different matter. A request should go in a separate thread, unless there is already an existing thread for that particular song - and the lyrics posted in response should go in the request thread (preferably with ADD included in the SUBJECT title).

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: chico
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 05:01 AM

Chords


      C    G       Am Dm       Bb          E7    Am
Oh, I'm a good old Rebel, now that's just what I am,
    C          G       Am   E7   Am      E7    Am
For this "Fair Land of Freedom" I do not care a damn!
      C    G    Am    E7    Am   E7       Am
I'm glad I fit against it, I only wish we'd won,
    C       G      Am Dm       Bb   E7    Am
And I don't want no pardon for anything I done.


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: GUEST,Lighter at work
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 09:05 AM

Seems to me all these Klan and lynching stanzas, along with the Frogs and Squareheads, etc., are pretty idiosyncratic and come from the 20th Century. Lynching reached its peak around 1900, and the presence of "Frogs" and "Squareheads" in the same line - plus the "Eyetalians" and "Micks" - makes me suspect this stanza, and maybe the whole series of them, was written in the 1920s or '30s when the KKK was at the height of its influence with a rabid anti-immigration platform. (Immigration was a major political issue in the '20s.) "Frogs" and "Squareheads" were words widely used overseas during World War I.

I believe that the version in question was printed for the first time (and the only time as collected from supposed tradition) in Frank and Ann Warner's collection.

The more familiar version is sung variously to the tunes of "Joe Bowers" (the most traditional tune), "Son of a Gamboleer," "The Yellow Rose of Texas," and, if I'm not mistaken, "The Bonnie Blue Flag."


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 09:48 AM

Frank Warner begins this song with "Ah'm a good ole Rebel sojer..." if I recall aright.

A


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Subject: looking for song
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 10:02 AM

I heard a song containing the line "she strolls through the garden trailing butterflies" but can not remember the title. I have searched everywhere and do not even know if the song is new or old! Does anyone know this song? If so, please send the lyrics and title to
Thank you!!!


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 10:14 AM

Are there any recordings of the more unsavoury verses?


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jun 05 - 11:04 AM

To specifically address the question of what lines are missing from Frank Warner's version, according to my memory his verse starts:

Three hundred thousand Yankees a stiff in Southern dust;
We got three hundred thousand a-fore they conquored us;
They died of Southern fever and Southern steel and shot,
And I wish we'd got three million instead of what we got!

There are a lot of variations of this song.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 02:29 AM

The Traditional Ballad Index Calls this "The Good Old Rebel":

Good Old Rebel, The (The Song of the Rebel Soldier)

DESCRIPTION: "I'm a good old Rebel soldier, and that's just what I am, And for this Yankee nation I do not give a damn!" The rebel tells of his history in the Confederate army. He scorns the Reconstruction governments, and proclaims, "I won't be reconstructed!"
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1866?
KEYWORDS: Civilwar soldier political
HISTORICAL REFERENCES:
July 21, 1861 - First Battle of Bull Run/Manassas. Confederates under Beauregard and Johnston rout an inexperienced Federal force under McDowell.
Aug 29-30, 1862 - Second Battle of Bull Run/Manassas. Lee's army takes Pope's force in flank and rolls it up.
Apr 7 and Sept 8, 1863 - Federal attempts to retake Fort Sumter and Charleston Harbor. Both failed.
May 1-4, 1863 - Battle of Chancellorsville (which would appear to be the "Battle of the Wilderness" referred to in some texts, since Stonewall Jackson is mentioned in the immediate context). Lee defeats Hooker, but Jackson is killed
May 5-7, 1864 - Battle of the Wilderness. Lee's army mauls the Federal force under Grant and Meade, but the Federals refuse to retreat
May 11, 1864 - Battle of Yellow Tavern. Confederate cavalry commander J.E.B. Stuart mortally wounded (he died May 12).
1865-1872 - The era of the Freedmen's Bureau. Its purpose was to help former slaves to make the transition to freedom, and to give them as many opportunities as possible. Most Southerners fought it tooth and nail, and finally the Radical Republicans abandoned it in 1872
FOUND IN: US(SE,So)
REFERENCES (13 citations):
Randolph 231, "I'm a Good Old Rebel" (3 texts, 3 tunes)
Randolph/Cohen, pp. 216-217, "I'm a Good Old Rebel" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 231C)
Warner 193, "The Song of the Rebel Soldier"; 194, "An Old Unreconstructed" (2 traditional texts plus assorted floating stanzas and a copy of a printed text plus mention of 6(?) more, 1 tune)
BrownIII 391, "The Good Old Rebel" (2 texts plus a fragment and mention of 1 more)
Hudson 118, pp. 259-260, "I'm a Good Old Rebel" (1 text)
JHCox 77, "I'm a Good Old Rebel" (1 text)
Silber-CivWar, pp. 88-89, "Oh, I'm a Good Old Rebel" (1 text, 1 tune)
Lomax-ABFS, pp. 535-540, "Good Old Rebel" (2 texts, 2 tunes)
Lomax-FSNA 133, "The Good Old Rebel" (1 text, 1 tune)
Botkin-SoFolklr, p. 716, "I'm a Good Old Rebel" (1 text, 1 tune)
Darling-NAS, pp. 351-353, "I'm a Good Old Rebel" (1 text)
Silber-FSWB, p. 290, "The Good Old Rebel" (1 text)
DT, UNRECON MOONSHI5*

Roud #823
Notes: Cox lists several early printers and claimed authors. The most common attribution is to Major Innes Randolph (CSV), but is from a book published by Randolph's son in 1892. An 1890 text is attributed to J.R.T.; another, printed 1903, dedicates it to "Thad. Stevens, 1862" and claims it was sung by "Harry Allen, Washington Artillery, New Orleans, LA."
A dedication to Stevens makes a perverse sort of sense; Stevens was a humorless anti-Southern abolitionist. The 1862 date makes little sense, however. Still, something caused the song to go into oral tradition. I think we must simply regard the matter as uncertain.
"Marse Robert" is, of course, the soldiers' nickname for Robert E. Lee.
Point Lookout was a Federal prison camp in Maryland. It was an unpleasant place (the prisoners were housed in tents, and water was sometimes scarce), but the army that produced the Andersonville prison camp had no grounds for complaint!
The "darkies dressed in blue" were Blacks who joined the Federal army; their performance was not spectacular, but this was mostly the fault of bad officers. Needless to say, the Confederates hated them above all -- but at the end of the war they too were putting Blacks in uniform!
The Warner text "An Old Unreconstructed" appears to belong with this piece; the lyrics are different, but the spirit and the meter are the same.
In that song, the rebels claim that their cavalry was always superior to the Federals'. This was certainly true in the early years of the war, but by the time of Brandy Station (June 9, 1863), the two forces were equally competent (the Confederates had better officers, but the Federals had better weapons), and by 1864, with Southern horses running out and Sheridan in charge of the Federal cavalry, the Union horse was probably superior.
The "cowardly blockade" refers to the Federal blockade that largely cut off the Confederates from the outside world. It was not "cowardly"; blockade was already recognized under international law. Nor did it automatically cut off the Confederates from munitions; the blockade did not really begin to bite until 1863, by which time the Confederates were fairly well equipped with weapons (often captured from the Unionists). More important was the complete Confederate failure to industrialize.
The "German immigrants" referred to are probably the Federal XI corps, composed primarily of German refugees, which suffered the worst casualties at Chancellorsville and was routed at Gettysburg. These troops were held in very low esteem by both sides. Except for some Irish formations (none larger than a brigade), I know of no other Federal forces composed entirely of "furriners." - RBW
File: Wa193

Go to the Ballad Search form
Go to the Ballad Index Instructions

The Ballad Index Copyright 2005 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 04:58 AM

What an unpleasant song!

But historically important, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 05:47 AM

Historicaly important and made quite a stir when it appeared because of the swear words IE damn.


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Amos
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 10:54 AM

The song is far more pleasant than the actuality it derived from, Richard. In fact, it is quite spirited and reflects a certain spiritual tenaciousness which is one of my favorite parts of the best of human nature.

'Course in some contexts that just looks like pigheaded obstinacy, but ya never know....


A


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 26 Jun 05 - 11:50 PM

Frank Proffitt sang this song for about 3 or 4 of us off in an out of the way alcove on the second floor of Ida Noyes Hall at the University Of Chicago Folk Festival---the first one---February 4th or 5th, 1961. We knew we were hearing a rarity, and a real human, emotional document from a terrible time. Frank wasn't certain if he should sing it "up North"---so we went into the small out of the way room. That county in North Carolina (was it Boon County?) sided with the North during the Civil War----and talking about that fact led us into talking about this song -- and his ultimately singing it for us. That was the only time I ever heard it sung out loud in any setting.

Also, in that same alcove, the next year of the festival, 1962 if I'm remembering right, Roscoe Holcomb retuned my guitar to an open chord and did his intensely high-lonesome version of "On Top Of Old Smoky" fretting the guitar with a knife he took out of his pocket.

I can see it and hear it vividly while I'm writing this! Amazing times.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: GUEST,southern raised
Date: 05 Dec 05 - 11:08 PM

Oh I am a good ol' rebel now thats just what I am
And for this Yankee nation I don't give a damn
I'm glad I fought again' her I only wish we'd won
I aint ask any pardon for anything I've done
I hates the yankee nation and everything they do
I hates the Declaration of Independance too
I hates the glorious Union 'tis drippin' with our blood
I hates this striped banner I fit it all I could
I rode with Robert E. Lee for three years there about
Got wounded in four places and starved a Point Lookout
I cotched the roomatism a campin' in the snow
But I killed a chance o' Yankees, I'd like to kill some more
Three hundred thousand Yankees is stiff in Southern dust
We got three hundred thousand
Before they conquered us.
They died of Southern fever
And Southern steel and shot;
And I wish it was three million
Instead of what we got.
I can't take up my musket and fight 'em now no more
But I aint gonna love 'em now that a certain sure
And I don't want no pardon for what I was and am
I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn
Oh I am a good ol' rebel now thats just what I am
And for this Yankee nation I do not give a damn
I'm glad I fought again' her I only wish we'd won
I aint ask any pardon for anything I've done
I aint ask any pardon for anything I've done


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 12:41 AM

Francis D. Allen, 1874, "Allan's Lone Star Ballads, a Collection of Southern Patriotic Songs," contains a number of songs written after defeat. "The Unreconstructed Rebel" is not one of them. The 'Reconstruction' followed defeat, and reached its height a few years after defeat. For this reason, I doubt that the song was written before the 1870s. Authorship by Major Innes Randolph probably is the the best we can do.

I agree with Lighter that the worst versions seem to be from c. 1900, for the reasons he gives.


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 04:03 AM

Art, please excuse my ignorance of your body of work.

But is there a book you have set these recollections down in? That was just amazing to read.

I would love to read more.

all the best

al


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 04:48 PM

Southern raised- Source? Quite similar to the one printed in Colliers Weekly, 1914, words by Innes Randolph, as reproduced in the Contemplator (DT credited). Tunes cited are Lily of the West and Lakes of Ponchartrain. Midis at Unreconstructed Rebel

Besides Villikins and his Dinah, any others used?


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 05:22 PM

In 1982 I was motorcycling through Civil War sites and battlefields and came upon a group of re-enactors commemmorating what I recall as Richmond's 350th anniversary as Capitol of Virginia. I was allowed to 'jine' up as a Texas volunteer (despite the fact that I am from Massachusetts) and around the campfire we sang songs. The reason I bring this up is that one version of The Unrepentent Rebel began with the lines:

"I'm glad I fought agin 'em, I only wish we'd won
And as for you damn Yankees sir, I hope I shot your son!"


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: GUEST,steve
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 09:50 PM

i myself and all my kin has served this country in each and everything it has fought all the way back to the start here,and back into europe....300,000 yankees lie dead in southern dust.......i wish it was 3 million...................


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: J-boy
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 10:56 PM

Which "country"? The CSA?


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: GUEST,tg in VA
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 07:51 PM

This is the way it was passed down to me:

Oh, I'm a Jolly Rebel
        Yes, by God, I am
And for this land of freedom, suh
        I do not give a damn

I'm glad we fought agin 'em
        But I wish to hell we'd won
I don't ask your pardon
        for anything I've done

I fought with ol' Marse Robert
        Four years or there about
I wandered in the Wilderness
        And fought at Point Lookout

I caught the rheumatism
        A campin in the snow
But I killed a lot of Yankees
        And I wish I'd killed some mo

Three hunderd thousand yankees
        Lie buried in our dust
It took four years of fightin'
        For them to conquer us

They died of Southern Fever
        and Southern shot and shell
But I wish there'd been ten thousand more
        God Damn their souls to hell!

I hates the Spangled Banner
        The Constitution too
I hates the Freedmens Bureau
        With Niggers dressed in Blue

I hates the Bald headed eagle
        With all his fire and fuss
But those low down thievin' yankees
        Great God I hate em worse

I hates the Yankee Nation
        And everythin they do
I hates the Declaration
        of Independence too

I hates the glorious union
        They's drippin with our blood
And I hates the stupid banner
        I fought it all I could


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:15 PM

The original version was written by Innes Randolph (1837-1887), a Virginia lawyer and a topographical officer on Gen. J. E. B. Stuart's staff. He'd graduated from law school in Poughkeepsie, N.Y.

The self-conscious rural dialect (in contrast with Randolph's other verse) and crudely overt sentiments indicate that he intended the song as an affectionate satire of some of his less sophisticated wartime acquaintances rather than as some heart-felt cry of his own.

Of course, many people just don't "get" irony.


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 08:16 PM

I'm hoping they revise the South Carolina automibile license plates to
"Birthplace of Secession" or "Birthplace of Treason".

Lets be sure we're explicit about what these peckerwoods are proud of.

That and white supremacy, of course.


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Subject: RE: Unreconstructed rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 10:03 PM

Dunno what South Carolina license plate is referred to. A Free Masons' plate is available for an extra $30. A "Gone Fishin' plate is available for an addition of $75, and a Veteran" plate has no extra charge (It does not confine itself to those who wore grey).


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Subject: Lyr Add: WE KNOW THAT WE WERE REBELS (C Prentice)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 11 - 06:01 PM

Lyr. Add: WE KNOW THAT WE WERE REBELS
Or. Why Can We Not Be Brothers?
Clarence Prentice

Why can we not be brothers? the battle now is o'er;
We've laid our bruis'd arms on the field, to take them up no more;
We whu have fought you hard and long, now overpower'd, stand
As poor defenceless prisioners in our own native land.

Chorus-
We know that we were rebels,
And we don't deny the name,
We speak of that which we have done
With grief, but not with shame !

But we have rights most sacred, by solemn compact bound,
Seal'd by the blood that freely gush'd from many a ghastly wound;
When LEE gave up his trusty sword, and his men laid down their arms,
It was that they should live at home, secure from war's dire harms.

And surely, since we're now disarm'd, we are not to be dreaded,
Our old chiefs who on many fields our trusty columns headed,
Are fast within an iron grasp, and manicled with chains,
Perchance, 'twixt dreary walls to stay as long as life remains !

O shame upon the coward band, who in the conflict dire,
Went not to battle for their cause, 'mid the ranks of steel and fire,
Yet now, since all the fighting's done, are hourly heard to cry:
"Down with the traitors ! hang them all ! Rebel dog shall die !

We know that we were Rebels, we don't deny the name,
We speak of that which we have done with grief, but not with shame !
And we never will acknowledge that the blood the South has spilt,
Was shed defending what we deem'd a cause of wrong and guilt.

Allan's Lone Star Ballads. A Collection of Southern Patriotic Songs Made During Confederate Times. Compiled and revised by Francis D. Allen. Burt Franklin, New York, 1874. Reprinted 1970.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: GUEST,Civil War Nut
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 08:08 PM

The "official" lyrics to this song should be those in the 1898 book of Innes Randolph poems compiled by his son Harold Innes. This book can be viewed on the web. There have been many other verses written, I have written several myself, it is a simple task. I have heard it sung to many different tunes: Joe Bowers is a catchy tune but too happy sounding, as is Yellow Rose of Texas; I prefer the dripping hatred when sung to "Son of a Gambolier" which is attributed to Charles Ives (1895) who is famous for stealing lines from earlier songs. Does anyone know an earlier version of that melody?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 08:52 PM

ANother couplet that seems to have wandered off, not sung by Waner, is:

"At a little creek called Bull Run
We used their starry rag
To wipe our horses down with,
And I ain't here to brag."


A


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE GOOD OLD REBEL (Innes Randolph)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 09:46 PM

The original, 1898, Innes Randolph book.

The Good Old Rebel

Oh, I'm a good old Rebel,
Now that's just what I am;
For this "fair Land of Freedom"
I do not care a dam.
I'm glad I fit against it-
I only wish we'd won,
And I don't want no pardon
For anything I've done.
2
I hates the Constitution,
This great Republic too;
I hates the Freedmen's Buro,
In uniforms of blue.
I hates the nasty eagle,
With all his brag and fuss;
The lyin', thievin' Yankees,
I hates them wuss and wuss.
3
I hate the Yankee Nation
And everything they do;
I hate the declaration
Of Independence, too.
I hates the glorious Union,
'Tis dripping with our blood;
I hates the striped banner-
I fit it all I could.
4
I followed old Mars' Robert
For four year, near about,
Got wounded in three places,
And starved at Pine Lookout.
I cotch the roomatism
A-campin' in the snow,
But I killed a chance of Yankees-
I'd like to kill some mo'.
5
Three hundred thousand Yankees
Is stiff in Southern Dust;
We got three hundred thousand
Before they conquered us.
They died of Southern fever
And Southern steel and shot;
I wish it was three millions
Instead of what we got.
6
I can't take up my musket
And fight 'em now no more,
But I ain't agoin' to love 'em,
Now that is sartin sure.
And I don't want no pardon
For what I was and am;
I won't be reconstructed
And I don't care a dam.

"Poems" by Innes Randolph, 1898, Williams and Wilkins, Baltimore. "Compiled by his son from the original manuscript."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Mar 13 - 09:50 PM

Verse 3: Declaration, not declaration.
Verse 5: dust, not Dust


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 09:00 AM

The presumed original words, credited to "I.R.," is visible here, set to the tune of "Joe Bowers":

http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/levy-cgi/display.cgi?id=093.168.002;pages=3;range=0-2

Randolph's song was reprinted in the Cedar Valley (Iowa) Times (Apr. 4, 1867), with a note that it was allegedly "the present popular song in the South."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 01:23 PM

The words in the sheet music are identical t those in the little bok of poems. Only the title differs.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 02:03 PM

he song is far more pleasant than the actuality it derived from, Richard.

Which actuality is that, Amos?

The actuality of slavery?

The actuality of taking up arms against the United States government, i.e. treason?

The actuality of the Ku Klux Klan & its murderous activities?

The actuality if thousands of lynchings of Black folks?

The actuality of the de-facto nullification if the 13th, 14th, and 15th Ammendments for over a hundred years?

And which of the above actualities is one of your" favorite parts of the best of human nature", pray tell?

Or the actuality that a portion of the Southern population of the U.S. to this day sing this song and mean it literally?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: michaelr
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 02:21 PM

Which tune does this version use?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 04:26 PM

Recorded Live in Hell.

Be that as it may. The tune sounds to me like it was "inspired" by "Joe Bowers."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Mar 13 - 04:40 PM

Whatever, that version requires earplugs


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 06:26 PM

That happens to be the first (and to date, only) recording of the song I've heard. I had no idea it was an old song.

I think it suits the lyrics quite well in that it conveys an unhinged sort of wildness, which I think is what Amos was talking about, too.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 06:32 PM

The actuality of grungy, bloody, murderous warfare, Greg. For the rest, my post is self-explanatory.


A


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 07:42 PM

This guy uses the "Son of a Gambolier" tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERyLNa-WBQU

Here's Ry Cooder singing it to "Joe Bowers":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvBCnHPM4Y

I knew a CW re-enactor back in grad school (1975) who sang the song to "The Yellow Rose of Texas" as well as to "Son of a Gambolier."

"Joe Bowers" is rather similar to the the usual tune of "The Lily of the West."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 08:02 PM

Both those links go to the same video, Lighter.

The Quicksilver tune sounds more based on "Gambolier" than "Joe Bowers".


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 08:07 AM

Very weird! But if you paste the second address into the search field and search, it will take you to the right place.

Another tune halfway between JB and SOG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioRx7MeKi4g


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 08:23 AM

The actuality of grungy, bloody, murderous warfare, Greg. For the rest, my post is self-explanatory.

The song ain't about warfare, Amos. And your post is by no means "self explanatory.

So here's a chance for you to explain how, for you, the sentiments expressed in the song represent the "best of human nature".

You have the floor.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 12:02 PM

Don't bother, Amos. Your previous posts are clear to me, anyhow.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 05:16 PM

Well then, Q, perhaps in the absence of Amos you'd be kind enough to explain to me which sentiments expressed in the song under discussion represent "the best of human nature".


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 07:45 PM

No


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 08:45 PM

So I guess his posts aren't so clear to you after all then?

Or is it possible that the sentiments expressed in the don't quite represent "the best of human nature" after all?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 11:42 AM

I am reminded of a kids song I heard in Texas. Boys poking cowpies with sticks. Can't quite remember it, but something like:


Stirring cowpies in the pasture,
Worms are wrigglin, and bye and bye,
Cowpies holey, flies are risin
See they fly up, to the sky.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 12:41 PM

OK, Q, lets try a slightly different tack.

Lets assume there is a song featuring an unrepentant member of the Wehrmacht or Schutzstaffel in which he expresses vicious hatred of the Allies, the Geneva Conventions & the Nuremberg Trials, wishes he had killed more Russians and Poles, makes light of feeding Jews into the ovens and states proudly that he joined a neo-Nazi group after the war.

Would this song also represent "the best of human nature"?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 01:11 PM

Randolph's song, to which Amos and Q refer, isn't much like that, and it's usually performed in a spirit of sheer cussedness and perversity. Its wide appeal undoubtedly comes from the repeated "I do not care a damn!" rather than from any reactionary politics.

The song takes exaggerated shots at symbols of U.S. Government authority, including the uniformed Freedman's Bureau and even the "Yankee Eagle," which doesn't seem worth a sane person's "hatred" for its purely imaginary "squall an' fuss."

As statements of (white) democracy, both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were held in high regard by Confederate intellectuals. (Except for incorporating slavery, secession, and Jesus, the CSA Constitution was much like our own.) The song contains not a word of overt racism (which Randolph could easily have included, had he a mind to.) The hyperbolic, deadpan wish that "it was three million instead o' what we got!" reveals - to the educated Victorian readers of Randolph's serious poetry - just how crude and uncivilized this character really is.

On the other hand, the derivative song printed by the Warners is a different kettle of fish. It has no subtleties. It does bear some resemblance to the imagined SS song. Its offensive intentions are blatant and inarguable.

More significantly, however, it appears to have been reported only once. Nor, as far as I know, has it ever been recorded or performed on a public stage. (If it has, its place in American pop culture nevertheless remains at zero.)

So, yeah, Randolph's song can be misused by those who want to. To me, that doesn't make the song itself offensive. The other one, however, is beyond the pale.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 05:06 PM

Hi, Lighter-

In the main, I agree with you, though I don't quite see Randolph's original words being quite as benign as you seem to. The comments about the U.S. Constitution & Declaration of Independence, among others, could also be taken at face value - & it doesn't seem that Major James Innes Randolph, Topographical Engineers, CSA, meant the song entirely as a burlesque of an ignorant Confederate peckerwood.

be that as it may, nowhere did Amos, or Q in defense of Amos, make even remotely clear they were referring to the original poem/song.


As for how the song is performed, viewed & received, do take a look
at a few of the dozens of versions on YouTube & be sure to read the comments. Quite enlightening.

Best,

Greg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Amos
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 06:04 PM

Greg:

Are you being a thorn in the bewtocks intentionally? Or is it just a bad day?

The defense of self-determination in the face of overwhelming force is certainly one of the finer aspects of the human spirit when facing overwhelming odds.

Furthermore it may have escaped your attention that for many of the rank and file of the CSA, the casus belli was the right of States to define their own path. While I have no axe to grind for States' rights when it comes to slavery, or secession either, I do respect the spark of self-determination behind those issues. That is really all I meant, and I don't think it is worth all the argument as it is purely a personal opinion.


A


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 08:08 PM

No, Amos, despite the current neo-confederate resurgence in popularity of the old 19th century lie, the Civil War was not fought over "states' rights" nor the right of self determination. [ Nor was the KKK was not a social club, on the off chance you believe that, as well.]

And "defense of self-determination in the face of overwhelming force"
cannot be divorced from the context in which that defense was, or is, mounted, and what it was mounted to defend.

If you consider that makes me a thorn in the bewtocks, I'm comfortable

By the way, you haven't commented upon the song "I'm A Good Old Wehrmacht Soldier".

Have a nice evening.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 08:42 PM

Don't know how many Confederate peckerwoods there were, but the Union troops were more numerous, hence there must have been more rural soldiers on the Union side.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Amos
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 12:14 AM

Greg:

It's a very different thing to say a war was "fought over" an issue. Economics being what they are, the War of Secession was fueld by the slavery issue, I agree. What I said, however, was that many CSA ordinaries were motivated not by slavery but by the right of the STate to determine its own path. Surely the difference is obvious?

A


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: mg
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 01:02 AM

There aren't many left of us who rode out at the start
And them that are, are weary, weak in body, sad of heart


whoever wrote those words knew what he or she was talking about...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 08:51 AM

Those lines are about trad fans, aren't they?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 09:07 AM

... many CSA ordinaries were motivated not by slavery but by the right of the State to determine its own path...

And the path that the states in question had chosen was that of supporting and perpetuating slavery, of subjugation of Black folks free or slave and of bearing arms against the government of the United States.

Surely that is obvious as well.

What should be equally obvious is the many times the rank and file have not the slightest idea - or an erronious idea - regarding WHY they are actually at war - I give you Viet Nam and Iraq as two examples of many.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 11:54 AM

Masie, git the swatter. Thet pesky fly is back.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 05:22 PM

Cute. Got anything cogent and/or substantive to say?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 08:30 AM

Lighter, thanks for the links at 7:42 P.M. on 4/1/13. I hadn't heard it in awhile. BTW,it was Hoyt Axton, not Ry Cooder, singing.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 08:45 AM

You're welcome. "Son of a Gambolier" seems to be sung by Hoyt Axton, but "Joe Bowers" is Ry Cooder.

A sample of a version sung to a tune resembling "Get Along Home, Cindy, Cindy":

http://www.emusic.com/album/idlewild-2/promontory/12028849/


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Subject: Lyr Add: RECONSTRUCTION SONG
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 03:45 PM

This is the oldest version I can find with Google Books. I have not found any information about when, where, etc., the play was performed.

From a play, The Tragedy of Abraham Lincoln, or, The Rise and Fall of the Confederate States by Hiram D. Torrie & Selden Whitaker Crowe* (New York: Dr. C. W. Selden, 1881), page 62:


RECONSTRUCTION SONG,
Air, "Joe Bowers."

"Oh, I'm a good old Rebel,
Now that's just what I am;
For this fair land of freedom
I do not care a damn.
I'm glad I fought against it,
I only wish I'd won,
I don't want any pardon
For anything I've done.

"I hate the Constitution,
This great republic too;
I hate the Freedman's Bureau,
In uniforms of blue;
I hate the nasty eagle,
With all its brag and fuss;
The lying, thieving Yankees,
I hate them worse and worse.

"I hate the Yankee nation,
And everything they do;
I hate the Declaration
Of Independence too;
I hate the glorious Union,
'Tis dripping with our blood;
I hate the striped banner,
I fought it all I could.

"Five hundred thousand Yankees
Lie stiff in Southern dust;
We lost three hundred thousand
Before they conquered us.
They died of Southern fever,
And Southern steel and shot,
I wish it was ten million
Instead of what we got.

"I cannot raise an army,
To fight 'em any more;
And I will never like them,
Now that is certain sure.
But I don't want any pardon
For what I was and am;
I won't be reconstructed,
If I do, may I be damned."

[This song is sung by Jeff Davis at the very end of the play.

[* The authors' names are supplied by the cataloguer; they are not printed in the book.]


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Subject: Lyr Add: O I'M A GOOD OLD REBEL.(I. Randolph)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 04:35 PM

From sheet music at The Lester S. Levy Sheet Music Collection. (There is no publication data.)


O I'M A GOOD OLD REBEL.
A Chaunt to the Wild Western Melody, "Joe Bowers."
Respectfully dedicated to the Hon. Thad. Stevens.


By IR*

O I'm a good old rebel,
Now that's just what I am,
For this "Fair Land of Freedom"
I do not care at all; [sic]
I'm glad I fit against it—
I only wish we'd won
And I don't want no pardon
For any thing I done.

I hate the Constitution,
This Great Republic, too,
I hates the Freedman's Buro,
In uniforms of blue;
I hates the nasty eagle,
With all his braggs and fuss,
The lyin', thievin' Yankees,
I hates 'em wuss and wuss.

I hates the Yankee nation
And everything they do,
I hates the Declaration
Of Independence, too;
I hates the glorious Union—
'Tis dripping with our blood—
I hates their striped banner,
I fit it all I could.

I followed old mas' Robert
For four year, near about,
Got wounded in three places
And starved at Pint Lookout;
I cotch the roomatism
A campin' in the snow,
But I killed a chance o' Yankees,
I'd like to kill some mo'.

Three hundred thousand Yankees
Is stiff in Southern dust;
We got three hundred thousand
Before they conquered us;
They died of Southern fever
And Southern steel and shot,
I wish they was three million
Instead of what we got.

I can't take up my musket
And fight 'em now no more,
But I ain't a going to love 'em,
Now that is sarten sure;
And I don't want no pardon
For what I was and am,
I won't be reconstructed
And I don't care a dam.


[* The "I" is engraved superimposed on the "R"—or is it the other way round? Does the monogram represent "I. R." or "R. I."? Except that the poem is attributed elsewhere to Innes Randolph, I wouldn't have a clue.]


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