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BS: Bloody WalMart

DougR 13 Dec 02 - 05:52 PM
Midchuck 13 Dec 02 - 07:31 AM
NicoleC 13 Dec 02 - 03:04 AM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 11:40 PM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 10:47 PM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 10:30 PM
DougR 12 Dec 02 - 01:15 PM
Amos 12 Dec 02 - 11:59 AM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 11:09 AM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 10:46 AM
Wilfried Schaum 12 Dec 02 - 02:58 AM
Alice 11 Dec 02 - 11:57 PM
Alice 11 Dec 02 - 11:53 PM
Alice 11 Dec 02 - 11:50 PM
DougR 11 Dec 02 - 09:47 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Dec 02 - 05:15 PM
GUEST,fiddleronthehorse@yahoo.com 11 Dec 02 - 05:06 PM
DougR 11 Dec 02 - 04:25 PM
Kim C 11 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM
Amos 10 Dec 02 - 06:07 PM
DougR 10 Dec 02 - 04:18 PM
Coyote Breath 10 Dec 02 - 12:32 PM
Amos 10 Dec 02 - 12:12 PM
DougR 10 Dec 02 - 12:05 PM
Amos 09 Dec 02 - 11:58 PM
DougR 09 Dec 02 - 08:40 PM
Amos 09 Dec 02 - 08:34 PM
saulgoldie 09 Dec 02 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 07 Dec 02 - 04:38 PM
GUEST,not the same one 06 Dec 02 - 07:26 PM
kendall 06 Dec 02 - 07:21 PM
GUEST 06 Dec 02 - 04:44 PM
DougR 06 Dec 02 - 04:35 PM
Genie 06 Dec 02 - 04:15 PM
chip a 06 Dec 02 - 01:59 PM
NicoleC 06 Dec 02 - 12:55 PM
SharonA 06 Dec 02 - 10:08 AM
Genie 06 Dec 02 - 03:34 AM
Peg 06 Dec 02 - 01:29 AM
Coyote Breath 06 Dec 02 - 01:13 AM
DougR 06 Dec 02 - 12:40 AM
kendall 05 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM
Cluin 05 Dec 02 - 08:18 PM
Cluin 05 Dec 02 - 08:17 PM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 04:01 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Dec 02 - 04:00 PM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 03:53 PM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 03:45 PM
NicoleC 05 Dec 02 - 03:43 PM
Cluin 05 Dec 02 - 03:37 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 05:52 PM

Alice: I would be hard pressed to blame Wal-Mart for what happend to the vendor you referred to. Anyone in business should recognize the danger of devoting too much of the business to one client, regardless of who it is. Lose the client and you are up the proverbial creek wihtout a paddle. If your argument is that vendors make the mistake of relying too much on Wal-Mart and run the risk, of ruin, I certainly would agree with you.

Nicole: you have heard the story, probably, about the efficiency expert the owner of a ice cream store brought in to evaluate his business. He was selling ice cream cones for a nickel (five cents U.S.) and customers qued up four abreast in a line that extended for blocks buying his ice cream cones, but he was going broke. The expert advised him that his ice cream cones were costing him ten cents to produce, so he would have to raise his prices. The business owner told him he was crazy. "That," he said, "would screw up my volume!"

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:31 AM

If you get bored dumping on WalMart, you might take some time off and dump on Home Depot, which represents all the same problems in the hardware and building supplies field...or Staples, which is the same in office supplies/computers.

All we can do is buy from smaller retail businesses that are willing to treat us as real human beings, whenever we can. The bitch of it is that sometimes the monster places are the only ones that have what we need on hand. But if they do, you can't find it and no one who works there can either.

Home Depot is a wonderful place to just wander around in, and look at stuff. It's only a pain in the butt if you're trying to find something in particular.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 03:04 AM

I had the same issue when I was in sales. I had a perfectly good, big account ("S"), who suddenly decided that 4% gross profit margin was too high for them, even though that was bare bones for us. They demanded 1 1/2%. Well, cost of doing business was about 2%, as it was through most of the industry. I said no way.

Of course, they found some salesperson with dreams of having a big account in such a glamourous industry -- volume, volume, volume! One little shop after another either went out of business, or refused to sell to them after a while. None of them could really service the client or provide good quality at that price point. The end users at this big company were the ones that suffered. Eventually, said client started buying from me again at the regular pricing when they just couldn't get their 1 1/2%.

With a store like Walmart, there will always be another vendor or salesperson ready to take that sucker bet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:40 PM

"Dropped flat" was a poor choice of words on my part. Wal Mart did not end their vendor status. I meant they continued to be Wal Mart vendors, but the result of being vendors was that their business suffered instead of being more profitable.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:47 PM

Buying from LOCALLY OWNED businesses is good policy in economic development for any community. "Buy Local" is becoming a watchword from Britain, to US to Australia.

Here is a bit of Western Australia's Buy Local policy.
Western Australia's Buy Local Policy.

More links to articles on local economic development are on the left side of the link to the page above.

QUOTE newrules.org
"...such policies help maintain long-term economic
                            health and stability. Although big box developers claim their projects will generate new
                            jobs and boost tax revenue, numerous studies have found otherwise. These big stores
                            usually force dozens of local businesses to close, destroying about as many jobs and as much
                            tax revenue as they create.

                            Much more of a dollar spent at a local store stays and multiplies in the local economy.
                            Local merchants support a variety of our local businesses, such as banks, printers,
                            accountants, and small manufacturers. Chain stores centralize these functions at their head
                            offices and keep local spending to a minimum.

                            Consumers have options about where to shop and the community as a whole is not overly
                            dependent on any one company. Corporate retailers tend to be fair-weather friends and
                            routinely abandon stores when the economic winds shift. Wal-Mart currently has more
                            than 350 vacant outlets nationwide." END QUOTE


Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:30 PM

No, Doug, I didn't say they dropped both of them. I said one lost much of its long time clients in trying to meet the price points and supply for Wal Mart Quality of the products was not the issue. One of them lost many of its long time customers because selling to Wal Mart was seen as a conflict in areas where the National Parks are located, so the park concessions began cutting back on orders from the shirt company that had become a Wal Mart vendor. As the profit margin with Wal Mart is slimmer because of the price points they demand, the volume did not make up for the National Park and souvenir shops in destination resorts that were set aside because of Wal Mart. The other company, the one that I went to Bentonville with as their freelance artist, eventually closed in part because of Wal Mart vendor rules being constantly changed.

Wal Mart has an internal revolving door of buyers. One month you're dealing with one person who has an idea to, as a real example, put "western" art on shirts in all the ladies apparel departments in the Rockies. It projects that they'll buy X number of dozens of garments. They write the order, all the vendor's other clients are put on the back burner, the buyer at Wal Mart gets transfered to another division and the new buyer says, No, I've got a different idea. The constant internal changing of personnel making the buying decisions and the changing of rules of what stores you could sell to, etc., are a notorious Wal Mart "game" in the manufacturer's industry. People who have been burned by Wal Mart are an example for others to be leery of becoming a vendor.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 01:15 PM

Alice: the two examples of vendors that you gave in a post on December 11: they supplied goods to Wal-Mart and after a year or two, WM dropped them. Is it possible that the goods they supplied Wal-Mart were not selling well?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:59 AM

Good point, ALice. It'd be interesting to trace the volume of cash into and out of a local area attributable to one WalMart -- obviously the gross revenues far exceed the salaries, but they also have to pay rent, local utilities and taxes, and local maintenance services, for example.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:09 AM

Another reason vendors take a big risk in selling their products through Wal Mart is the incredibly thin profit margin that they have to settle for in the promise that they will get big volume. The price points Wal Mart demands are extremely low, but as I said, manufacturers get wooed by the promise of huge volume. When the manufacturer has to cut back their own overhead to give Wal Mart the wholesale price demanded, while gearing up for a big volume order, they do things like buying tees from Hong Kong instead of USA (Russell Mills that made Jerzees from US cotton with US workers can't sell as cheap as Hong Kong).

The US garment workers and mills that used to make apparel have been drastically affected by this. The affect of Wal Mart, a business that has one fourth of the volume of the US defense budget, is like a huge domino falling on many areas of US manufacturing jobs, not just the locally owned shops.

Regarding local economy effect (Mom and Pop stores) the money from local purchases stays in the local town economy longer than the money spent at huge corporate stores. The dollars spent at a locally owned grocery will go to a local bank, locally anchored endeavors. The money spent at Wal Mart immediately goes out of your town to their headquarters. I don't think people realize how many things are affected by purchasing from the big box stores and Wal Mart.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:46 AM

My experience of doing a sales presentation in Bentonville (in the message before this thread split to page 4) was an inside peek into an organization I would never work for. Companies strive to become vendors for Wal Mart thinking they can really make big bucks. What can happen, as in the case of the apparel company I freelanced for, is that they promise a big order, the company puts all their effort into producing samples and production for Wal Mart, and after the initial order they change buyers internally or the rules regarding to which stores the vendor can sell. I've seen two companies gear up to be Wal Mart vendors, invest alot of time and money, set aside their smaller customers, and then after a year or so get dropped flat by Wal Mart. One company became a fourth of the size it was previously, the other company went out of business.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:58 AM

Thank ye all for the good information.
WalMart is now trying to get a foot into Germany, with really big advertising. Maybe they have lower prices, but as a union man I won't buy there and will tell my fellows what I have learned here.

Wilfried


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:57 PM

So, how does Wal Mart keep those prices down? One way is to save money on payroll by having people stay in the store overtime without pay.

...'STEVEN GREENHOUSE: Would they actually order you to work off the clock, or was it
                            something you did that they really didn't know about?

                            FARRIS COBB, No, they knew. They all knew. That's what they would tell me that, um,
                            you have to do this for the company.
                           
                            ANDREA FLEISCHER: Russell Lloyd, a former judge, represents Farris Cobb, Liberty
                            Morales and 19 others in class action lawsuits filed in six states throughout the South.

                            RUSSELL LLOYD: Each of these individuals has been pencil whipped. A little here, a little
                            there, no claim is more than - worth more than two, three, four thousand dollars.

                            ANDREA FLEISCHER: But Lloyd calculates that for just one store in Texas with 250
                            employees, saving one hour of overtime per person per week quickly adds up.

                            RUSSELL LLOYD: That's 250 hours a week. That's a thousand hours a month. In one
                            store. That's roughly twelve thousand hours a year, he's getting free labor. Out of that one
                            store, and there's three hundred and some odd stores in Texas.

                            ANDREA FLEISCHER: That kind of arithmetic for the state of Texas alone, could mean 30
                            million dollars in savings in one year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:53 PM

This is from the transcript that I linked to in the previous message:

..."ANDREA FLEISCHER: Jon Lehman, who is now one of several former Wal-Mart managers
                            working for the union, says what happened to Sidney Smith sounds like something right
                            out of the "Managers Tool Box To Remaining Union Free" - a confidential document that
                            Lehman says is given to every Wal-Mart manager with a toll free number direct to
                            corporate headquarters.

                            JON LEHMAN: And that brought the jet in with the labor relations guys in there And they
                            interview all the managers, they interview the associates.

                            They start talking about anti-union, "We don't need a union." They start showing videos.
                            They start going through personnel files looking for dirt on any associate that is, is a union
                            supporter, so that they can get 'em out legitimately. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:50 PM

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the recent report on NOW with Bill Moyers about WalMart and the lawsuits against them. Quotas that are required have caused managers to make employees work UNPAID overtime. Actions taken to keep unions out are also questioned.

OFF THE CLOCK

I've been to Bentonville to do a sales presentation to the Wal Mart Headquarters buyers. It was a weird world, a unique experience. The entry lobby is filled with rows of folding chairs. Vendors (99% or more male) dressed in black or grey business suits sit waiting for the clock to show time for them to enter the sales cubicles to meet buyers. When the time comes, a locked gate opens... everyone rushes in to their cubicle make their presentation. I was there with the owner of a sportswear company from Colorado who used to buy design work from me. I was the only person wearing colors in the large entry room filled with suited vendors! I was dressed in a teal sheath with fuschia jacket and teal high heels, matching fuschia purse and an art portfolio under my arm. The minute I stepped into the front door, all eyes in the vendor room turned to me. GAPE... a person not dressed in a dark business suit! I had a grin through the whole thing, it was so strange. As we left I finally noticed another woman in the herd... she was wearing a navy blue suit and had blended in perfectly with all the guys.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:47 PM

No, Guest Fiddler, I, for one have not heard that one. Hilarious!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:15 PM

*in his best Homer Simpsons Voice*

Mmmm... Price Club...

:-P~~~~~~~~~~


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,fiddleronthehorse@yahoo.com
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:06 PM

Have you guys heard this one yet?

                   MAL-WART:
   YOUR QUALITY SOURCE FOR CHEAP PLASTIC CRAP


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 04:25 PM

Sorefingers: you posted a message on December 4 reporting that Wal-Mart sells fake Sony products and Levi Jeans. Surely you jest. If Sony and Levi Strauss suspected that, the whole world would hear about it. And so would Wal-Mart's lawyers.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

Nashville still has a locally-owned men's clothing store. Levy's has been in business continuously since the 1850s.

Of course.... they do have a niche market. It's all expensive designer stuff. Ferragamo and the like.

My thing is this: for things that I want to wear a long time, I buy from Lands End or LL Bean. I have a coat from LL Bean that I've been wearing for 10 years, a jumper I've worn every summer for the last 8 years or so, and several pairs of trousers from both places. Trendy, funky, fun things, that cost a lot at a department store, I buy at a discount place for half the price.

And food.... well, I don't skimp so much on food. I try to eat healthy, and make Mister eat healthy, and it ain't cheap to do that. We've figured out that we spend about the same amount of money on groceries no matter what store we go to - including Wal-Mart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 06:07 PM

Right you are, Doug. But it was Price Club which gets notoriously crowded at certain times of the week and seasons of the year, this being one.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 04:18 PM

Amos: the Wal-Mart you describe is not at all like the one I shop at. I suppose it is that crowded at times, but I don't recall seeing the conditions you regularly find yourself in at yours. Anyway, you live in San Diego don't you? You must have lots of options over there just as we do in Phoenix. I think many of the criticizms made here about putting little stores out of business applies less to cities than it does smaller towns. Or maybe one is less aware of it in cities. So many stores, so many choices.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:32 PM

Well the old Sam's Club in Earth City (really!) Missouri is now InCahoots a GIANT cowboy dance club which books up-coming local and well established names and charges reasonable rates. HUGE dance floor, claimed to be biggest in the midwest. We go there to dance couples style country dancing with the occasional line dance for variety. Never paid more than 12 bucks each and that was to see Toby Keith. We've danced to Terry Clark's music, The aforementioned Keith, Tim McGraw, Alan Jackson and so on. They usually are near to their 3,500 person capacity and with their dollar a bottle long necks nights they make a LOT of money. Good use for an Old Sam's, hey?

They also have dance lessons for an hour or so before the first band starts up.

Oh, I just bought two pair of boot-leg Rustlers for $8.88 each!

There is no such thing as overtime at our Walmarts.

Management here in Washington RARELY fires anyone as I mentioned before but they lie about what your hours will be.

They hired a friend of ours to work midnight to 7 and within a week they had her on days working the cash register. She quit. The original hours she wanted were necessary because of her husband's schedule and because they need someone with their autistic son 24/7 and they can't afford to hire any help.

Management knew this from the git-go. Usually they "work with you" about scheduleing, they have with my friend, Nancy, we think that some admin type looking at her needs vis-a-vis her son feared that somehow Walfilth would end up having to cover some of their costs in that area. Who knows?

My friend Nancy was fired from a job when she told them she had to have her Thyroid removed due to cancer. Did it the day before surgery. They claimed she wasn't qualified for family medical leave. Of course she hadn't ASKED for such leave and had worked out her schedule so she could be back to work after what amounted to a four day weekend. This same company (Code Three) had allowed her to take TWO weeks leave to travel out to Wyoming just two months earlier. It was the inclusion of the word "cancer" that actually got her fired.

We learned the details at a later date. There wasn't a thing we could do about it. Turns out a nurse in her doctors office VOLUNTEERED the information that, worst case scenario, she would be out for as long as three months. Nancy was back, looking for work, by the next Wednesday, less than a week after telling them she had surgery that Friday for Thyroid cancer.

She is fine now but crappy decisions like that are common in "business"

and sorry for the thread drift!

CB


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:12 PM

Jesus, Doug R, what's the matter with your ears?

You, perhaps, enjoy being swept up in crowds of people in a semi-hypnotic trance of material acqusition, doing a mass dance of sucking up material wares and goods far beyond their needs? I am all for celebrating the amazing productivity of our economy, but that doesn't mean I enjoy heavily crowded race-mills of overloaded carts, being elbowed by shoppers who are made oblivious and semi-hypnotized by the objects around them, and aisles lined with bleeping games and inane television shows being broadcast on floor models. If you get off on these things, go hang out at Wal Mart!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:05 PM

In spite of what "drawbacks," Amos? :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:58 PM

Sorry, DougR -- a meant "in spite of the drawbac ks" -- the crowding and the sense of being swept along in a miullstream of material acquisition which had no end....

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 08:40 PM

What other drawbacks, Amos?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 08:34 PM

I am just back from an expedition to Price Club, a warehouse store with huge aisles lined with open boxes of everything from cigarettes to fancy collections of power tools in a plastic case, wines and tires and jeans and frozen burritos, flowers and camping gear -- you name it. The aisles are crammed with wide-eyed people of all kinds and levels of life, psuhing carts overflowing with all kinds of food, drink, tools, gimmicks, apopliances, clothes and books.

And I should add that even though the consumer spirit was enervating and the crowds were tiresome and the lines slow, there was an undercurrent of -- I dunno -- a sort of celebration of all the good survival and well-being that those wagons of food and stuff represented. And it made for good spirits throughout the place even while people were fretting over which color shirt or which brand of wine to buy.

In any case it was certainly a peaceful -- meaning cooperative and pleasant-- activity, and a celebration of plenty, and I found I could enjoy it for those reasons in spite of the other drawbacks.

A
A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: saulgoldie
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:10 PM

Just returned from a week and a half trip (and boy, are my arms tired, etc...), so I'm ketching up. I didn't read each and every post here thoroughly. However, it does appear that no one has yet mentioned the Walmart case of forced labor with denial of overtime pay that is pending against them. Surprised am I that it has not figured in the discussion, what with all the folk music concern for workers and their rights. The other issues are all important (and not quite that simple, BTW). But having to work (to avoid getting fired) and not get paid for a portion of that time is about as basic as issues go, methinks. Won't shop there until the folks I trust give them a white glove inspection (not like the Denny's case where it was "over" until the next time, and then until the next time, yet again).

If anyone cares, yes it is quite nice to be "unplugged" (or should I say "un-wired?") for a spell, even if you miss your fellow 'Catters a wee bit (and I did).


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 04:38 PM

"I watched Wal-Mart devastate my grandparent's very small, mountain town. At first they were excited about having a big
store locally, instead of having to drive 40 miles into the city. But this town, never wealthy, is even poorer than ever. The main
drag is shut down, all the shops have closed, and now everyone HAS to shop and work at Wal-Mart. Even the grocery store
is gone. Meanwhile, the $ spent at Wal-Mart leave their small town and fill corporate coffers, and the schools and churches
are dependant on the charity of the big store because the local citizens can't afford to support their fund-raising efforts
anymore."

I read many reports like this over the years.

Folks don't expect evil MaulWart money sucking nor do they seem to understand how it removes up to 80% of local economic ingrowth. Put it this way, the money that used stay in a MaulWartbilghted city is now taken away to Waltonmoneybags Arkansas and so on.

It may be fun to buy that lemon Table Lamp - made in China for a few cents - but as well as falling apart in a few months the money you spent is now in a fat lazy Wartsqueezer's pocket, far far away in Switzerland!

Shop local and BOYCOT MAULWART !


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,not the same one
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 07:26 PM

Guest, check out Part I of this thread. There was a post there on just the kind of research data you asked about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: kendall
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 07:21 PM

Profit profit profit. Tell it to St. Peter. He'll be impressed.
As a matter of fact, I have a good friend who works for Goodwill Industries and he says that L.L.Bean gives literally TONS of goods to them. They also donate Millions of dollars to charity. Screw Wal Mart and the greedy bastards who run it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:44 PM

Either there's too many or not enough. We got Eagle Hardware which appeared to wipe out a truly excellent locally owned store, then I learned the locals were retiring and no one wanted to take over. Then Home Depot opened up right next to Eagle, then Eagle became Lowe's. Walmart and K-Mart opened up at the same time. I just figure at some time the market here will be over-retailed and a few of the big boxes will be turned into indoor rec centers.

I don't know how many good jobs we're losing versus poor jobs we're gaining, has anyone done hard research on the issue.

As far as shooting them all, except for doug's kid, sounds like a very palestinian approach. That's sure to work, now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:35 PM

Like any good Republican, I shop at Neiman Marcus, Nordstrum's, Dillard's and sometimes, but not often ...at Robinson-May. I walked by a Penny's and Sears store a few times but I only window shopped.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Genie
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:15 PM

Sharon, the soda pop I'm talking about is the store brand stuff. Coke, Pepsi, etc. cost 50 cents to $1.00 in the stores machines (depending on size of can/bottle.) Safeway in the NW raised their price last year from 2 cents to 3 cents, and in San Diego, I can't find any pop in store machines for less than 50 cents

You thrift store and garage-sale shoppers, I'm with you. It's a great way to find real treasures at bargain prices and promote re-use of stuff (minimize the need for landfills) at the same time. For clothing, dishes, books, and a lot of household goods and tools, I buy almost exclusively second-hand.

Genie


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 01:59 PM

I get lots of my stuff from yard sales, flea markets and thrift shops too. The pickings are much better around here as gentrification sets in. That's a subject for a whole other thread!
Poor folks use what they have till it's worn out. In a poor area the yard sales etc. don't yeild much. You won't find L.L.Bean or such stuff at a flea market in a depressed area of the U.S. When a family living six miles below the poverty level sells something it's likely used up.
Now in comes wallmart and runs out the local small businesses. What little choice there was is gone. Work oppertunities are gone. Even if wallmart pays the same as the old job, not everyone wants to make that trade. The guy who did tire changing, brakes, grease and oil with no benefits in a three man shop may not give a damn about working for a big, faceless joint where your check comes from far away. And his wife and kids can't come in and have a picnic on the workbench at lunchtime.
My point is just that in a real rural or depressed area, when the big outfits come to town there's a much bigger impact than when they come to a more affluant area. When one big guy sets up shop in a little town it can be years before another one thinks it's worthwhile moving in. So, during this period you have almost no choices. The big store can be about as callous as they want and get away with it.
But all I do is complain! I really don't see a change of any kind ahead. Just more and more of the same.
: ), Chip


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 12:55 PM

Boy, folkies are a cheap bunch! I shop at thrift stores, too, although the pickings aren't nearly as good here as they were when I lived in LA and could hit the Goodwill nearest Beverly Hills!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 10:08 AM

30 CENTS FOR A CAN OF SODA??? 25 CENTS????? We're lucky to find a soda machine around here that'll dispense a can for 75 cents!! Most are $1 or above.

As for writing congressmen, I was referring to complaints about unfair employee treatment and hiring practices and the like – the stuff that some here are alleging goes on at WM that is illegal. Besides, the local representatives and other local government officials would be in a position to discourage or disallow the rezoning of property for the construction of yet another Wal-Mart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Genie
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 03:34 AM

Khandu, thanks for those suggestions!  LMAO!

SINSULL, Kendall, You're absolutely right!   WalMart is a Communist/Terrorist plot to destroy small businesses throughout the US and then go under themselves leaving us (deservedly) without a hardware store, bakery, toy store, whatever. And Wal-Mart really is the anti-Christ organization!

Norval, thanks for the stats on Wal-Marts' "job creation!"

Nicole, your story actually beats mine about the Safeway checker who got out a calculator when I handed him 2 10-cent-off coupons!  (He couldn't figure out how much to subtract without using the calculator.)

And, Doug R, I DON'T go near a Wal-Mart!  At least not in.  Funny thing:  Alberton's is right next door to a Wal-Mart near my house, and Wal-Mart's outdoor pop machine charges 30 cents for a can of soda, to Albertson's 25 cents!    (Albertson's isn't exactly "mom and pop" these days, but they're closer to it than Wal-Mart is.)

You folks who love Wal-Mart for its low prices, think about this:  Do you always buy the cheapest brand of a product, or are you willing to pay more for quality?  Why not be willing to pay a little more for a quality community and a quality society, where there aren't a few megacorporations owning everything?

Sharon, why write our representatives in Congress about this?  Wal-mart's operations are not illegal.  Better to vote with our feet and our wallets, and encourage others to join us.

But, Steve, if any store allowed buskers in the parking lot, I might patronize them!   That's really letting the wealth "trickle down!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Peg
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 01:29 AM

good point CB! I buy about 80% of my clothing at thrift shops; great way to save and get very good quality labels! I go through my shoes pretty hard from all the walking and hiking I do and can't be buying flimsy plastic crap at Payless. I hunt the bargain racks and sales and often get new shoes at a fraction of their regular price. Then again I have small feet and can get my size leftover. I am wearing a pair of $140 Fluevog boots that cost me $50. Since new clothing for women is so expensive and much of it poorly made I would rather get something second hand and know the label is a quality one...and vintage clothes? They don't make stuff like that anymore; army surplus, old cashmere, vintage leather, etc. Great stuff and a great way to reduce, reuse and recycle!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 01:13 AM

I own a real nice L.L. Bean flannel/plaid shirt I bought for $2 at a local second hand store. Got real nice Dockers slacks, shirt and shoes. Second hand stores, resale shops, garage and yard sales. The shoes were seconds bought for $25 at Family Shoe Outlet in Washington, Missouri. I buy food at Save-a-Lot, owned locally, Seitter's Market (also local) and get my van serviced at Purcell's (local) and my hardware and tools from New Haven Lumber (local) and Numerous household stuff from Dollar General, a locally managed market and eat out (when I can afford it) at the Front Street Grill or the Colony House or the Hill Top lounge (25 cent MUGS of draft beer during their three hour long happy hour - terriffic hamburgers too) In other words I rarely shop at Waljunk. When I do it is for medicine, hunting gear (we have NO local sporting goods store but I buy my deer and turkey tags from the local hardware store) and bluejeans. There ARE cheap blue jeans at Dollar General but only "relaxed fit" and I prefer straight leg bootjeans. They sell "Rustlers" for $9.96. Oh yeah, I also buy my AT&T phone card minutes from Walsmell. I guess what I'm rambling on about is Walmart occasionally has a use but I find that because I must drive fifteen miles one way (about a gallon of gas for the van) I don't save anything by going to the big blueandwhite thing shop. I do buy videos from them but no one else around here has EVER offered videos for sale and its about 50 miles to the nearest Blockbuster. Got O Brother for $9.96 too!

CB


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 12:40 AM

Well, Kendall, Wal-Mart learned a long time ago that you don't make a profit by giving away stuff, including toys! :>) What did LL Bean contribute by the way? *G*

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM

On the local news they just showed a big table. At this time of year, K Mart, Ames and Bradlees used to fill those tables with toys for poor children. Guess what Wal-Mart is doing....NOT A GODDAMN THING. But, that's just business; yeah right, tell it to those kids Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:18 PM

Whoops. Typo. Should be "T-shirts".

Or maybe I was right the 1st time?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:17 PM

Wow, T-shits with Fat Bastard lines.

Available at yer local Wal-Mart. Get `em B4 they drop in price.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 04:01 PM

...depending on the ethnic origin of the baby...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 04:00 PM

"Seriously, is cat the other other other white meat?"

No... according to a t-shirt one of my band mates has, BABY is the other white meat

LOL!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:53 PM

Nicole: Green eggs and ham for real, huh? *bleah* True enough that the big plants can survive a setback better than a small place... and that holds for the discount superstores, too, I guess. A conglomerate like WM (emphasis on "glom"!) can deal with an economic downturn better than a Mom-and-Pop store, and not just because of the number of people who prefer to shop at one place or the other but also because of the great difference in investment options available to ride out a bad year or a recession. I'm not sure that any amount of local support for one's local shops can overcome that investment factor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:45 PM

Nicole sez: "I'm glad you have a choice. Lots of folks just don't any more; it's getting harder and harder." Yep, that was one point behind my story of the town I moved from. Some of the choices I used to have there don't exist there anymore, but not just because of discount superstores' "pandering to the desires of the masses to acquire more STUFF". Those businesses that closed could've been replaced by others, but when the post office and the commuter train service were pulled out of town, even though more people were moving out of the city to that community and swallowing up farmland for housing developments, the message was sent that the community had better start looking to some other centralized location besides the center of town for its needs. That location became the shopping-center-strip-mall-fast-food district outside town, since residents of the community had to drive to find services anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:43 PM

True! But the big plants aren't immune either -- they just clean up and go back to work when it happens; the little shops just can't survive that kind of event. Hardly a month goes by when one of the big meat distributors doesn't recall 100,000 pounds or so of contaminated meat. Yuck. It always seems to be pre-made hamburger patties, too.

My Mom lives in rural, rural, RURAL Alabama. The meat at her local grocery store is tinged kinda... green... She survives by subscribing to one of those door-to-door frozen meat delivery plans. 100 pounds of chicken or beef at a time!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:37 PM

Seriously, is cat the other other other white meat?

Seems unlikely.


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