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BS: Bloody WalMart

John MacKenzie 02 Dec 02 - 05:36 PM
curmudgeon 02 Dec 02 - 05:47 PM
Kim C 02 Dec 02 - 05:49 PM
SINSULL 02 Dec 02 - 05:50 PM
Amos 02 Dec 02 - 06:21 PM
wysiwyg 02 Dec 02 - 06:29 PM
Deckman 02 Dec 02 - 07:07 PM
Deckman 02 Dec 02 - 07:09 PM
DougR 02 Dec 02 - 07:09 PM
Tinker 02 Dec 02 - 07:13 PM
Neighmond 02 Dec 02 - 07:20 PM
SINSULL 02 Dec 02 - 07:22 PM
Clinton Hammond 02 Dec 02 - 07:44 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 02 Dec 02 - 07:51 PM
harpgirl 02 Dec 02 - 08:16 PM
khandu 02 Dec 02 - 08:23 PM
wysiwyg 02 Dec 02 - 08:26 PM
NicoleC 02 Dec 02 - 08:28 PM
khandu 02 Dec 02 - 08:30 PM
wysiwyg 02 Dec 02 - 08:32 PM
Jeri 02 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM
Neighmond 02 Dec 02 - 08:39 PM
harpgirl 02 Dec 02 - 08:43 PM
Bobert 02 Dec 02 - 08:45 PM
SINSULL 02 Dec 02 - 08:48 PM
Neighmond 02 Dec 02 - 09:09 PM
Rick Fielding 02 Dec 02 - 09:27 PM
kendall 02 Dec 02 - 09:34 PM
GUEST,Norval 02 Dec 02 - 10:05 PM
Art Thieme 02 Dec 02 - 10:53 PM
DougR 03 Dec 02 - 01:52 AM
Mudlark 03 Dec 02 - 02:24 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 03 Dec 02 - 02:30 AM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 03 Dec 02 - 02:36 AM
SharonA 03 Dec 02 - 09:30 AM
Kim C 03 Dec 02 - 10:13 AM
sed 03 Dec 02 - 10:26 AM
kendall 03 Dec 02 - 10:37 AM
JudeL 03 Dec 02 - 10:47 AM
JudeL 03 Dec 02 - 10:50 AM
GUEST 03 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM
BanjoRay 03 Dec 02 - 11:05 AM
Coyote Breath 03 Dec 02 - 11:49 AM
wysiwyg 03 Dec 02 - 11:52 AM
CarolC 03 Dec 02 - 12:26 PM
kendall 03 Dec 02 - 01:17 PM
DougR 03 Dec 02 - 01:29 PM
Bev and Jerry 03 Dec 02 - 01:43 PM
chip a 03 Dec 02 - 03:39 PM
Clinton Hammond 03 Dec 02 - 04:06 PM
chip a 03 Dec 02 - 04:24 PM
Amos 03 Dec 02 - 05:02 PM
Kim C 03 Dec 02 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,soorefingers 03 Dec 02 - 06:18 PM
Amos 03 Dec 02 - 07:32 PM
ballpienhammer 03 Dec 02 - 08:44 PM
artbrooks 03 Dec 02 - 08:48 PM
curmudgeon 03 Dec 02 - 08:55 PM
Amos 03 Dec 02 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 03 Dec 02 - 11:31 PM
DougR 03 Dec 02 - 11:44 PM
Amos 03 Dec 02 - 11:48 PM
Clinton Hammond 04 Dec 02 - 01:22 AM
GUEST,Managing director of Wallmart 04 Dec 02 - 04:47 AM
GUEST,sorefingers 04 Dec 02 - 10:24 AM
JedMarum 04 Dec 02 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,Ma'am 04 Dec 02 - 10:55 AM
Amos 04 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM
chip a 04 Dec 02 - 11:03 AM
Peg 04 Dec 02 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,Ma'am 04 Dec 02 - 11:26 AM
Amos 04 Dec 02 - 12:13 PM
NicoleC 04 Dec 02 - 12:29 PM
GUEST,Kim C no cookie 04 Dec 02 - 01:12 PM
Blues=Life 04 Dec 02 - 03:08 PM
chip a 04 Dec 02 - 03:14 PM
Cluin 04 Dec 02 - 03:16 PM
chip a 04 Dec 02 - 03:23 PM
Cluin 04 Dec 02 - 03:29 PM
SharonA 04 Dec 02 - 03:42 PM
SharonA 04 Dec 02 - 03:46 PM
wysiwyg 04 Dec 02 - 03:47 PM
John MacKenzie 04 Dec 02 - 04:32 PM
Amos 04 Dec 02 - 04:42 PM
catspaw49 04 Dec 02 - 05:00 PM
Amos 04 Dec 02 - 07:04 PM
DougR 04 Dec 02 - 07:24 PM
Amos 04 Dec 02 - 07:37 PM
Banjer 04 Dec 02 - 07:39 PM
NicoleC 04 Dec 02 - 08:03 PM
Amos 04 Dec 02 - 08:24 PM
curmudgeon 04 Dec 02 - 08:40 PM
Clinton Hammond 04 Dec 02 - 11:57 PM
Marion 05 Dec 02 - 01:55 AM
chip a 05 Dec 02 - 10:39 AM
catspaw49 05 Dec 02 - 10:45 AM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 11:03 AM
Amos 05 Dec 02 - 11:08 AM
chip a 05 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM
Big Tim 05 Dec 02 - 11:50 AM
NicoleC 05 Dec 02 - 12:52 PM
Amos 05 Dec 02 - 01:30 PM
NicoleC 05 Dec 02 - 01:58 PM
Amos 05 Dec 02 - 02:05 PM
John MacKenzie 05 Dec 02 - 02:29 PM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 02:41 PM
Amos 05 Dec 02 - 02:56 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Dec 02 - 03:12 PM
NicoleC 05 Dec 02 - 03:14 PM
NicoleC 05 Dec 02 - 03:16 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Dec 02 - 03:17 PM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 03:27 PM
Cluin 05 Dec 02 - 03:37 PM
NicoleC 05 Dec 02 - 03:43 PM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 03:45 PM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 03:53 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Dec 02 - 04:00 PM
SharonA 05 Dec 02 - 04:01 PM
Cluin 05 Dec 02 - 08:17 PM
Cluin 05 Dec 02 - 08:18 PM
kendall 05 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM
DougR 06 Dec 02 - 12:40 AM
Coyote Breath 06 Dec 02 - 01:13 AM
Peg 06 Dec 02 - 01:29 AM
Genie 06 Dec 02 - 03:34 AM
SharonA 06 Dec 02 - 10:08 AM
NicoleC 06 Dec 02 - 12:55 PM
chip a 06 Dec 02 - 01:59 PM
Genie 06 Dec 02 - 04:15 PM
DougR 06 Dec 02 - 04:35 PM
GUEST 06 Dec 02 - 04:44 PM
kendall 06 Dec 02 - 07:21 PM
GUEST,not the same one 06 Dec 02 - 07:26 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 07 Dec 02 - 04:38 PM
saulgoldie 09 Dec 02 - 02:10 PM
Amos 09 Dec 02 - 08:34 PM
DougR 09 Dec 02 - 08:40 PM
Amos 09 Dec 02 - 11:58 PM
DougR 10 Dec 02 - 12:05 PM
Amos 10 Dec 02 - 12:12 PM
Coyote Breath 10 Dec 02 - 12:32 PM
DougR 10 Dec 02 - 04:18 PM
Amos 10 Dec 02 - 06:07 PM
Kim C 11 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM
DougR 11 Dec 02 - 04:25 PM
GUEST,fiddleronthehorse@yahoo.com 11 Dec 02 - 05:06 PM
Clinton Hammond 11 Dec 02 - 05:15 PM
DougR 11 Dec 02 - 09:47 PM
Alice 11 Dec 02 - 11:50 PM
Alice 11 Dec 02 - 11:53 PM
Alice 11 Dec 02 - 11:57 PM
Wilfried Schaum 12 Dec 02 - 02:58 AM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 10:46 AM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 11:09 AM
Amos 12 Dec 02 - 11:59 AM
DougR 12 Dec 02 - 01:15 PM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 10:30 PM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 10:47 PM
Alice 12 Dec 02 - 11:40 PM
NicoleC 13 Dec 02 - 03:04 AM
Midchuck 13 Dec 02 - 07:31 AM
DougR 13 Dec 02 - 05:52 PM

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Subject: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:36 PM

I'm pissed off at WalMart, when we were on holiday in the US I spent hundreds of dollars in what I thought was a wonderful store. When my grandson was born, I used them to send flowers to my kids in Vermont. So here we are Christmas, and I order a couple of CDs and a Wisconsin cheese gift package, about $50 bucks. They cancelled my order, they only accept cards issued by US banks, assholes. Why did they take my plastic in September but not in December? I wrote them and complained all I got back was a form type letter, and it was obvious that they hadn't really read my complaint mail. Well GOD ROT them.

Rant rant.......Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: curmudgeon
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:47 PM

Walmart is economic evil incarnate.

In their never ending quest for world domination, they must have some UK outlets. If so, contact one of them and raise Hell; check for outlets on the continent; demand economic equality for EU members. Also check for stores in Canada, a Commonwealth country.

Do all you can to get your order processed and then never consider doing business with them again. And let everyone you know exactly how you've been treated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Kim C
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:49 PM

Maybe they took it because you were physically here in the US, I dunno. I know a lot of companies won't ship overseas but it seems like a corporation as large as WalMart would have the means to do that.

If there's something particular you're looking for, maybe I can help. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:50 PM

WalMart is a Communist/Terrorist plot to destroy small businesses throughout the US and then go under themselves leaving us (deservedly) without a hardware store, bakery, toy store, whatever. I won't set foot in one and gladly pay a bit more to "Mom and Pop" for the privilege of dealing with someone who cares.
RANT OVER
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 06:21 PM

Wow!! You guys are all a buncha pinko long-haired hippoes!! I'm calling the Bush hotline today!! Mebbe reward, who knows!! LOL!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 06:29 PM

Wow! Folkies are so NEGATIVE!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Deckman
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:07 PM

SINSULL ... Perfectly said! Me too. Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Deckman
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:09 PM

Actually, another way that I say it is: ... anyone who shops Walmart deserves them! Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:09 PM

Yep, Susan, you're right. Those folks berating Wal-Mart don't take into account that the store hires thousands of employees who, without that job, would be in tough shape. The fact that MY son is one of them has NOTHING whatsover to do with my statement (well maybe just a little bit). :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Tinker
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:13 PM

Amos,
Even the bastillion of conservative capitalism, The Wall Street Journal, ran a front page article (month ago??) on how poorly Walmart treats it's employees. In fact they even hinted it might be in violation of the law... The low, low prices seemed to be tied to some low, low behavior.....


Tinker


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Neighmond
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:20 PM

I AM a small town merchant and Wal-Mart IS a pain in our collective arse...my solace is that I can provide technical service, theoretical advice and custom work that those two-by-twice dime store hoods could never hope to accomplish.

While they are buisily scratching up watch backs and gouging bracelets and breaking spring bars (pins that hold a watch bracelet on) I have the power cell changed, the movement cleaned and electronically timed, the case cleaned and the gaskets and seals pressure tested. In 1/2 the time. Always.

Always.

P. S. I can tell the customer the difference between elinvar and invar hairsprings, and how to carry a pocket watch to minimise positional variations in time, how to settle a mantle clock and ten ways to realise better performance from anything that tells time of day. Always.

Always.

P. P. S. I would Looooooooove to see Wal-Mart build ANYTHING they will gurantee for 20 years. God knows I have. Always.

Always.


Amos...
Tell Mr. (Not pres. , since he supported legeslation contrary to the constitution he ceaced to be president in my eyes) Bush the tush he's fired. I voted him in I can sure-gawd vote him out!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:22 PM

Damn! If my mailman reads this, he's liable to report me to the GOVERNMENT and it will go on my permanent record! I forgot this is an open forum. But I did say Communist plot so that's in my favor right? But I also mentioned terrorists. I'm doomed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:44 PM

"Walmart is economic evil incarnate"

Bollox...

Walmart is the American dream made flesh and blood...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:51 PM

I just read where Walmart reported 1.43 BILLION dollars in sales this past Friday. That is BILLION and they made it in one day.   That is more then some of us Mudcatters make in a year!

President Shrub... I mean Bush must be happy.

Ron


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: harpgirl
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:16 PM

...since this is a BS thread...Neighmond, can you give me some advice on how to fix my cuckoo clock?

As for Walmart....I'm ambivalent. I don't own any stock outright, but I may have it in one of my mutual funds. I go there for rock bottom prices. But I shop the Dollar General and Family Dollar more often for even better prices and smaller venues. It employes a lot of folks but it has put small retailers out of business. I talk to ex-employees in the WC system and I don't like what I hear, nor do I like what I hear about racism in the stores. I'd like it a hell of a lot better if the Walton family would give most of their money away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: khandu
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:23 PM

My buddy, Ranger Dave, sent me this in e-mail today!



Things to do at Walmart, while your spouse/partner/significant other is taking his/her sweet time shopping:

1. Get 24 boxes of condoms & randomly put them in peoples carts when they aren't looking.

2. Set all the alarm clocks in Housewares to go off at 5 minute intervals.

3. Make a trail of tomato juice on the floor to the rest rooms.

4. Walk up to an employee and tell him/her in an official tone, "Code 3 in Housewares," ...and see what happens.

5. Go to the Service Desk and ask to put a bag of M&M's on lay away.

6. Move a 'CAUTION - WET FLOOR' sign to a carpeted area.

7. Set up a tent in the camping department and tell other shoppers you'll only invite them in if they bring pillows from the bedding department.

8. When a clerk asks if they can help you, begin to cry and ask 'Why can't you people just leave me alone?

9. Look right into the security camera and use it as a mirror while you pick your nose.

10. While handling guns in the hunting department ask the clerk if he knows where the anti-depressants are.

11. Dart around the store suspiciously while loudly humming the theme from 'Mission Impossible'.

12. In the auto department practice your look using different size funnels.

13. Hide in the clothing rack and when people browse through say "PICK ME!   PICK ME!!!!!!"

14. When an announcement comes over the loud speaker assume the fetal
position and scream "NO! NO!   It's those voices again."

And last but not least......

15. Go into a fitting room and yell loudly ..."Hey! We're out of toilet paper in here!"

Try it!

khandu


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:26 PM

I always did love that khandu. Sick bastard. Just our type.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:28 PM

Bob, you nailed it. Anyone who shops at WalMart deserves exactly what they get, which is shoddy merchandise and generally unqualified staff who vent their lousy day on you.

Unfortunately, Wal-Mart is one of the few places not inside a mall that I can still shop at around here. So I do most of my shopping online. But before I came to that decision, I went to Wal-Mart one last time...

True story: One day I was standing in line behind an older gentleman who was picking up a couple of small items. The total was $2.80. The gentleman handed the cashier a $5 bill, and she hit the "charge" button. Stumped, she asked the man to charge the purchase instead. He declined. She rings the manager. Decisively, the manager tells her to open the register and give him his change and they'll work it out later. So far so good, right?

The cashier can't figure out the change, whining about how hard it is. Irritated, the manager yells, "Don't you know how to add?! It's about $3!" The gentleman and I looked at each other, dumbfounded. He quietly suggested that the change should be $2.20.

The manager turns on him and stares blankly for a moment, then yells, "No, it's $3.20! Give him $3.20!"

The cashier handed the man $3.20, he shrugged, and left the store.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: khandu
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:30 PM

I am honored, WYSIWYG, truly honored! ;-)

khandu


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:32 PM

:~)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM

I think #5 would be funnier if it were a gallon of milk instead of M&Ms. Still laughing my ass off.

I've done #11 although I wasn't trying to be silly. I've also sung along with the muzak, heard someone else singing along and formed an impromtu duet.


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Subject: RE: Cuckoo for cuckoo clocks
From: Neighmond
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:39 PM

Is it stopped entirely, or runs off and on, or doesn't quail?

I cut my teeth on cuckoo clocks-I love 'em!

Cuckoos are simple as a rule-they are made to adjust all of the error out by hand after the repairs are done.

What is the movement (works)? is there anything stamped on them?

I'll sure do as I can.

Chaz


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: harpgirl
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:43 PM

Neighmond I am going to have to examine it to answer your questions!
my momma bought it in switzerland...

khandu...you are about to surpass the shallow running crankbait in the funny dept....I loved your list!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:45 PM

Welcome, Susan, to the Bill Clinton/Newt Gingrich "Welfare Reform Program".

Long on "Get you butt to work."

Short on "Training."

Now as fir Wal-Mart. They are so big and strong that they have the ability to drive the competition out, then put the screws to ya'. They did it in the town I own my business in and they've done it all over. Move in, crush the mom's and pop's and then rob yir butt with a bunch of cheezy products.

I aviod them like a radiation pit, myself...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 08:48 PM

I have a somewhat demented relative who, when approached in any department store re: opening a charge account, runs away madly screaming "Charge" ala "Arsenic And Old Lace". Always gets a reaction...


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Subject: To harpgirl
From: Neighmond
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:09 PM

swiss? likely Regula 25 (34), Hubert Herr or some such

How old is it?

C


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:27 PM

Jeez Khandu, even if you didn't write those...that's yer finest Mudcat Moment so far!(from a humour point of view)

10. "While handling guns in the hunting department ask the clerk if he knows where the
anti-depressants are".

MY GAWD CAN YOU YANKS BUY GUNS ANYTIME YOU WANT??!! Whadda constitution you must have!

Well sadly, I'm immature enough to do virtually anything that's in that list EXCEPT that if I got caught they might put me in a cell with Wynona Ryder, and that gal's too experienced a crook. She might force me to be her 'fancy boy'!

Shoot 'em all except Doug's kid!

Rick


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: kendall
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:34 PM

Doug, it's true that Wal-Mart hires many people, but, guess where those people came from? The mom and pop stores those bastards put out of business!They don't bring prosperity, they just move people around. Wal- Mart is the anti-christ.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,Norval
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 10:05 PM

Todays EDMONTON JOURNAL (Alberta, Canada) has 2 letters to the
editor complaining about Wal-Mart. An interesting comment
from these grumblers, paraphrased, follows:

"Studies of Wal-Mart's long and well documented history
indicate that for every 100 jobs created by Wal-Mart 150 are
lost in the community. Many of these 100 new jobs do not
provide a living wage."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 10:53 PM

And the damn place has isles that are always blocked and too narrow for my wheelchair. Add to that the holiday congestion and the fact that somehow people in wheelchairs apparently become invisible to clerks amd you have a not very fun experience.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 01:52 AM

My, my, my. If I was you folks, I just wouldn't go near a Wal-Mart store!

Rick, I do appreciate your suggestion that my chil' not be gunned down. I would miss him sorely.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Mudlark
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 02:24 AM

All moral issues aside, I'm just no longer strong enough to live thru a WalMart shopping experience. The walk from the back of the constantly crowded parking lot is enough to do me in. Then there is "The Greeter" to get past, and the need eventually for a large fuzzy dog with flagon of spirits tied around his neck to rescue me, after I've succumed to the endless aisles of towering merchandise, plastic gleaming in the hard glare of the flourescent lights.

Doug, ask your son if it's still true that the employees have to sing the company song every morning? How does he like working there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 02:30 AM

The UK chain ASDA are owned by WalMart, they are trying to buy Safeways as well, if they do, it will give them about half the UK supermarket share.In the UK 78 percent of all food consumed is bought from only 4 companies.I suggest anyone that has recieved bad treatment from them should burn down their nearest store, there is usually a petrol filling station nearby.The UK farmers hate them, as they charge around 40p for a litre of milk, but the farmers recieve only about 4p per litre!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 02:36 AM

and another thing, the prices might be a bit cheeper, but they are usually so far that if you have not got a car, you are knackered, poor people cant afford cars, so cant save the money on the cheap food.supermarkets are a big load of shit, if you ask me.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:30 AM

Geez, I shop at Wal-Mart all the time. I am a terrible, terrible person. Sorry, but the temptation is just too great, with one Wal-Mart 1.7 miles from my apartment and another 1 mile away in the opposite direction!

I don't understand the comment about racism. In the two local Wal-Marts, there are many employees of color; I haven't counted or anything but the employees of various colors may well outnumber the employees of Caucasian-American ethnicity.

So far I've only seen one obviously physically handicapped employee and one obviously mentally challenged employee, but of course I can't guess which employees are not-so-obviously handicapped or challenged. I agree with Art that the aisles are not kept clear for access via wheelchair or motorized cart; in some cases, it's not easy to maneuver a regular shopping cart through them! Many's the time I've had to walk several yards out of my way to find an opening between pallets that would allow me to cross an aisle, and walking's not always a picnic for me either!

I also agree that the "greeter" is intensely annoying.

As for the complaints about employee mistreatment, the taking of jobs from other sectors of the marketplace, the practices that put mom-and-pop stores out of business, and similar "moral issues": it's cathartic to complain, but these complaints are wasted here. If you really want the situation to change, write your congressman! ...a lot!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:13 AM

I think most of these complaints are valid for just about every large chain discount department store, including K-Mart and Target. I understand now that Target is getting into the Superstore business. It's all sort of funny to me, though, because when I was a little kid, in Louisville, KY, K-Mart had superstores in the early 70s. The grocery was on one side, the department store on the other. It ain't a new idea.

The concept of one-stop-shopping is pretty appealing - but the problem, as my dad put it, is "the store's so damn big you spend all day wandering around and can't find anything." And where he used to live... well, before there was Wal-Mart, there really wasn't anyplace to shop. Any mom-pop stores had already long gone by the wayside.

Here in Nashville, most of the privately-owned clothing stores are chic boutiques that someone like me can't even afford to breathe the air in. So if I want clothes, I pretty much have to go to a chain store, or mail order them from somewhere.

There are some things Wal-Mart hasn't touched around here. We still have those chic boutiques, privately owned hardware stores, gift shops, restaurants, etc. Nashville still has a local grocery chain that does very well, thank you. BUT this is a major metropolitan area with room for an awful lot of stuff. I realize not every community is like that.

It's a double-edged sword, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: sed
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:26 AM

What would really help me better appreciate WalMart would be if they allowed streetsingers to perform and sell their recordings and broadsides outside their zillions of stores. Can you imagine this: I get on my bicycle and travel for the rest of my life from WalMart to Walmart staying in motels every night and eating at restaurants, all on the proceeds giddily offered by smiling Walmart customers.....?
-Steve 'hallucinating happily' Sedberry


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:37 AM

Doug, I DONT go to Wal-Mart. In fact, I just returned from L.L.Bean. Sure the prices are higher, but, at least they pay a living wage, with bonuses, AND, the merchandise is excellent quality. Ask Wal-Mart how long their clothing is guaranteed for. L.L. Bean clothing is guaranteed for life, if you are not satisfied FOR ANY REASON they takes it back. One guy returned a sleeping bag that he bought in 1936 because the zipper broke. He got a new bag.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: JudeL
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:47 AM

In the uk ASDA has recently been taken over by Wallmart. Previous to this it was known for selling reasonable quality at cheap prices. Our local one has just undergone a rebuild, and is now about half as big again as it was before. A couple of things I used to like were the fact that they rarely changed the layout so I knew where stuff was and I could get the essential grocery shopping done relatively quickly (I hate shopping and stopped using Tescos after they kept swopping stuff round almost every week) another thing I liked was that they usually didn't use "piped" music. I can't yet find anything in my new store and ended up running out of time and going home without half of what I would have bought, and they have this irritating voice droning on at you about what a wonderful store they are and why don't you buy this that and the other. AAAhhhhhh.... I just hope this is not a sign of things to come, but I rather think (judging by the comments on Walmart above) that it may be.
One good thing, because of the multicultural nature of the population round here and the density of supermarkets I doubt if the'd get away with racist policies as 1) they'd have NO staff, 2) they'd pretty soon have NO customers and 3) they'd be taken to court very quickly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: JudeL
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:50 AM

Oh and since the introduction of the Disability Discrimination Act firms in general are a lot more wary of being seen to discriminate against those with disabilities as they know it could cost them loads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM

There was an article in the local newspaper several years ago concerning a deceased, elderly lady who enjoyed her daily trip to the WalMart immensely. When she passed away, her husband had the following inscription placed on her gravestone: "She's probably at the WalMart."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: BanjoRay
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:05 AM

I was totally astonished when I used a US Walmart this summer while I was over at Galax, Virginia for the Old Fiddler's Convention. I bought a case of beer, and when I went to pay for it, they wanted to know my date of birth - I took my hat off and showed them my lack of hair (I was 60 this september) and asked them if that proved I was old enough to buy beer. They said they still wanted my date of birth, so I made some ridiculous date up and they let me buy the beer. Unbelievable! Hooray for the American way!
Cheers
Ray


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:49 AM

Ok fellow folkies here are a couple of Walfart tidbits.

My long-time (and long suffering) girlfriend Nancy recently got a job with...the dread Walthing. She is in the Bakery. She thought that she would be baking. Reasonable. Wel everything they bake is frozen and made in the mines of Bentonville (or somewhere). Sure she "bakes" she plops the stuff into a walk-in oven (Hansel and Gretel come to mind) and the stuff bakes. Well it ain't the worst job but she and I have hated Walstuff from day one. She says its like "sleeping with the enemy". The store's manager's name is Blaise. which, from what I see going on there should be spelled Blase (I can't make accents over the es). She says there are many employees who just wander around looking busy, they don't do a thing. She has one friend whose job is to travel about the store with a shopping cart and pick up stuff "mislaid" in one department and return it to the correct place. She "missed" the pound of hamburger that was in the sporting goods department for a month, though. I heard of someone opening deer "scent" bottles and letting them dribble all over stuff. Oh my! and there's the guy who went to work for Walburp, punching in each day, going home and relaxing then coming back in time to punch out. He managed this for three months before they asked him to leave! They didn't fire him, by the way. We know a person who hasn't worked for the Walthing for almost a year but they still carry her as being "on leave" and she still has her benefits! Walmuck is non-union (duh) and periodically various unions try to change that. A new campaign is about to begin. We shall see. An historical note: this specific Walshite is the very first "Supercenter", ever.

When my ex first saw Walcrud she said: "Gee, 'Stuff Are Us"."

Walcrap doesn't pay a living wage, it is only marginally better than unemployment comp or welfare. They haven't a clue about how to deal with customers, yet management insists that each and every employee greets each and every customer as they come in, usually with "How may I help you?" They have "pep rallies" each morning before they open the doors getting the wage slaves who work for them to jump and cheer and clapp in unison. Employees must wait SIX months for health benefits. The chain is very flexible when it comes to hours an employee works and allow an employee to log as little as 36 hours a week and qualify for benefits. Of course the employee must pay for these benefits.

It is our experience, here in a small Missouri town, that the Walmonster provides the majority of jobs. This sound OK until you realize that amny of their employees (as my girl friend) are NAFTA refugees. We have lost four major employers here in the last four to five years. A common phrase heard here in Franklin county, Missouri. "
Well, I can always get a job at Walmart".

May God judge them as they shgould be judged and please, let me know so I can watch.

CB


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:52 AM

Sed, you get to sleep at WalMart. They welcome overnighter campers at the 24-hour Superstores. In the parking lot of course.

Ours has not knocked out our viable small-town economy for the town 15 miles away, but they did take out two Ames stores (and in fact the whole chain I thinik), by opening wherever Ames was doing well and undercutting prices. They'd hire extra staff to give better service till the Ames went away, then raise prices and cut staff.

Our is now like a huge general store. People sit around in it and visit.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 12:26 PM

This happened to me in the McDonalds inside our local WalMart...

I ordered a cup of Minute Maid orange juice. The counter person said it was probably frozen, but that they would get it thawed out for me. She took my money. Then she dissapeared into the back. When she returned, she said they couldn't thaw out the orange juice. So I asked for my money back. Then the manager came to the counter and said they would give the orange juice to me frozen.

I told the manager that I didn't want the orange juice frozen. He suggested again that I should take the orange juice frozen. I said I wanted to drink the orange juice, and that I couldn't drink frozen orange juice. He said it would thaw out eventually. I said "I'm thirsty now! He looked at me like I was crazy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 01:17 PM

Carol, that type of ass***e knows who to mess with and who not to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 01:29 PM

Mudlark: My son is a night manager and I don't think they do the Wal-Mart yell, or whatever it is they do, at night. He has been with Wal-Mart for ten years so I guess he must like it. I think he will get a kick out of reading this thread anyway.

BanjoRay: Are you SURE you were in a Wal-Mart? I didn't think Wal-Mart sold alcoholic drinks. They don't here in Arizona anyway I don't think.

Kendall: ok, fess up. How much did LL Bean pay you to advertise them on the Mudcat? I suppose they will have to hire extra help to service the huge crowds that likely will soon decend upon them.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 01:43 PM

We believe all these horror stories and could add some more. But, it seems to us that fifteen or twenty years ago, when Sam Walton was running the show, things were different. Service was excellent and employees were happy and well paid.

Anybody else have this impression?

Bev and Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 03:39 PM

Like sheep to the slaughter, we keep on shopping.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 04:06 PM

"we keep on shopping"

Beats making everything yourself by a long shot...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 04:24 PM

At Wallmart, Clinton! :)

We've recently had the local (20 miles away) Wallmart supersized, have another (40 miles away) being built and got a Home Despot (right here in town). Previously we had choices. Now the choices are dwindling fast. Besides, it just plain pisses me off to hand even more money to someone who already has so damn much! Yes I know I do that at the gas pump and everywhere else, but wallmart is pissing me off today. tomorrow Exon, then the world!
Chip


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 05:02 PM

Gee, I've always enjoyed the chaos in Walmarts and the towering piles of Stuff to Have of Little Merit... maybe once every eight to twelve months! The greeters I've seen were older folks, decent and friendly, and of course I never lost any revenue because Walmart moved in.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 06:14 PM

I have a couple of friends, a husband and wife, who both work at Wal-Mart, although at different stores. I don't know how much they earn, but they own a house and two cars, and get to do fun things once in awhile. The husband also earns extra money on the side as a photographer. He was full-time self-employed, but took the Wal-Mart job for the insurance. Those of you who are self-employed in the US probably understand that.

Neither one of them seems to complain about their jobs any more than the next person, and I'm sure it's a lot less stressful for the wife, who used to be a retail manager and now is another drone in the hive. I know she works hard, though, and probably because some of the people around her don't - but isn't it like that a lot of places?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,soorefingers
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 06:18 PM

Gee a squeaky clean Oklahoma enterprise, imports cheap plastic junk from Asia and labels it made in the USA then marks it up by 1000 % - still half the cost of home grown weed duh - and we are still taken in!

Naw I don't, and let the traders here note, more folks everyday are being hit on the head by WartMauls cheap shoddy crap as it falls apart.

Groceries? Ok well they do tend to sell you underweight cans so that would explain why they can undersell every store in the nation .. but I am not fooled.

At the top of the curve facing fast falling returns the mega cutomer bashing giant holds the Stock Market on the brink of the final melt down, the final bubble, the last one before we finaly awaken to the greying of the west as it halts it's mad crash into end days of worshipyouth culture, hucksters, antisag for yer jaw, pampers for freepers, liposucktion, etc etc.

While yet they sold Taiwanese PIRATED Video, Software - even Microsoft
Winderz, folks were Mauled out of it totaly oblivious to the con, but hey we learned and now we know.

Giok they are Woolworths without the bubblegum, the smell or even a hint of that kind of charm. Another world that blighties have yet to suffer, totaly false, totaly stealing and without the slightes bit of remorse. Think fatexcondrugdealer/murderer singing saved songs in a TV church on line, think so slimey even the market pickpocket would blush.

That is WartMaul USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 07:32 PM

Oh, bitter, bitter!! Hey, ya know, it is a buyers' market out there, and that billion dollars was handed over freely by millions of people, no?

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 08:44 PM

..got the cheapest CDs in town! No parkin' meters! Good cinnamon rolls! Love the French Bread! Cheapest fishing tackle around, too!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 08:48 PM

Some of the employees who aren't Doug's kid are somebody else's kid, and working hard for low wages as well. Even if we can buy guns on-site, let's not shoot them, ok?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: curmudgeon
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 08:55 PM

Amos is quite right when he says "...it's a buyer's market." But when WalMart has pushed every competitor out of existance, it will be a seller's market, and what will you do then?

Get out your old history tomes and read up on the Robber Barons of the Gilded Age. Learn about trusts and monopolies and what the intent was.

Go to WalMart to save a few coins, or even a couple of dollars, and then look at where you may have to work when your job disappears.

What's wrong with this picture?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 08:59 PM

BOYCOTT WALMART!!!

BUY YOUR MUDCAT SAMPLER CDS FROM DICK GREENHAUS AT CAMSCO INSTEAD!!

OYEZ!! REVENGE OF THE FOLKIES IS HERE!! F-L-O-O-O-D DICK!!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:31 PM

I have no complaint with WalMart...

Like a salmom fisherman who hooks the spawning bruts on nothing more than a piece of yarn...I must sincerely say...

WalMart has fattened my wallet on the likes of your kind....and I praise their name.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:44 PM

Garg: you're a treasurer.

Artbrooks: good on! For a group so opposed to violence (ostensibley) there sure are a lot of folks posting here that want to take the lives of innocent Wal-Mart folks. Makes one wonder about all this pacifism stuff you hear so much about here on the Mudcat.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 11:48 PM

DougR:

Join the Revolution!! Order YOUR Mudcat CDs from CAMSCO immediately!!

You too, Garg!!

It's only fair after all you've put us through!! :>)


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 01:22 AM

Well, I was at Walmart tonight...

Hadda return something that broke after 3 weeks of use (Sony product, it's defect had nothing to do with Walmart) and while I was there found the 2nd Season of The Simpsons on DVD for 38 bucks... (45 anywhere else...)

Sure I mighta waited in line for a few minutes... and then had to wait while the chick in the Electronics department waited on others before she could get my new PlayStation2 controller out of the locked cabinet... but so what... patience... good grace... it got me far... And that wait gave me time to FIND the 2nd Season Simpsons...

The customer service counter isn't supposed to ring up new purchases... But I get the idea that because I was gratious and patient with the chick from the Electronis department, and joked around a bit with her about how busy she was when she DID get to help me... when she lead me back to the Service Desk with my stuff, she told the girl there, "Let this dude pay for the DVDs here too..." (Her words, not mine!)

So... well... I donno... maybe ya get what ya put into it eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,Managing director of Wallmart
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 04:47 AM

I think Wallmart is a wonderful caring organisation that offers a delightful breath of fresh air shopping experience..I am pleased to tell you we have now bought the British ASDA foodstore chain so we can spread our wonderful crushing influence even further....and we operate an equal opportunities policy to all whinging pseudo leftwing whetback folkies so please feel free to shop at my stores we are here to serve you whether you like it or not..

Gobshite Grumble

MD of ASDA the company that likes to make world domination its byword...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 10:24 AM

Naw, you may get two day old doughnuts for half price, 1 Dollar a dozen, but did you know the local Doughnut Shop sells them fresh for 90 cents a dozen? Taking it easy on the MaulFarters here since their regular price for a 90 cent box of Doughnuts is 2 dollars and fifty cents. BTW The last time I saw their crummy doughnuts was at a function for seniors where we played. Made me near puke when I noticed the date on the box. Nuff said about WartMaul's slimey have a good day bullcrap.

They con you with a shoddy fake Sony and then kick your ass with a Pirated DVD, yeah you got a bargain! Think of it this way you can buy jeans with a Levis label there, that look feel and smell like the real thing, but don't wash them! When they do rip, and you have to take an hour of your time plus the expense of going to the store to exchange the defective goods, put it down to bad product. Same thing with the lemon Sony or the locking DVD disk.

Whatever you put it down to, WartMaul conned you a second time. You have now spent nearly twice as much as you would have done if you shopped in the local store - even with their inflated prices - and you still don't have Levis. May I tell you a little secret? Ok then here goes ' the pair they exchange are also fake'.

Talk about being ripped off!


Travelling to and from stores with defective goods is not my idea of saving or getting deals, more like getting screwed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: JedMarum
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 10:51 AM

What?? A Walmart thread and no post from Big Mick???

Does the court order extend to public posting, Mick??


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,Ma'am
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 10:55 AM

Oh, for heaven's sake. I swear, people will complain about anything. Show me some hard data that Walmart's employees aren't treated well instead of just hearsay. People need those jobs, and many are glad to get them.

And Walmart has plenty of competition. Where I live it has to compete with the likes of Meijer, KMart, several grocery store chains, department stores, etc. You're telling me the rest of the chains are going to shut down because of WalMart? Give me a break. Walmart fills a niche and that's all it does.

As far as shoddy merchandise, I've paid much more for items of the same quality. It's a toss-up as far as I'm concerned.

Let's move on to the evil that is JCPenney, now, shall we?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM

Well, Dick and I are in FIRM AGREEMENT that we will NEVER let Wal Mart take over distribution of the beautiful MUDCAT SAMPLER CDs!!

Some things are just too true, too good, too pure, too beautiful to be handed over to the commercial pimpers.

The MUDCAT SAMPLER CDs qualify on all those counts.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 11:03 AM

I don't like Walmart. See my previous posts. But......can anyone prove that they actually sell counterfeit Levi jeans? I doubt it. Do you think Levi's (another giant) would sit around letting that happen?
Cheap, shoddy shit for sure but counterfeits?
:), Chip


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Peg
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 11:21 AM

too right about L.L. Bean Kendall! An excellent company with impeccable customer service and fie products.

The people saying people with jobs at WalMart are lucky to have them are ignoring what has been said several times in this thread, which is that WalMart's crushing of locally-owned competitive stores (drugstores, fabric stores, hardware stores, discount clothing stores, housewares, you name it) has FORCED people to get jobs at WalMart because there is no longer anywhere else to work!

I go to WalMart about once a year; when camping in western NY; there is simply nowhere else to get stuff like tents and citronella oilin the middle of nowhere. This evil giant has destroyed smalltown America, in my opinion. My own hometown's downtown business district has been a ghost-town for years and I blame mall culture and superstores for that. Of course, consumers who do not make the connection between where and how they spend their money and their own local economy have allowed this to happen...and soon they won't have a choice.

Shop with Mom and Pop! Buy locally-grown and raised food! For pete's sake, support small business owners before this country's economy implodes even further!!!

Peg (who shops for food at the Farmer's Markets from May thru November)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,Ma'am
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 11:26 AM

So blame mall culture and superstores. Don't blame Walmart. It's a product of the culture, which is a product of the PEOPLE.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 12:13 PM

SHow 'em what you REALLY care about!! Shop at CAMSCO MUSIC for those impeccable Mudcat Sampler CDs!!

(well, they're a little bit peccable, but who's counting? Spaw?)

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 12:29 PM

Oh for heavens sake. Can we please stop posting that ridiculous link that supposedly goes to an online game but really tries to upload malicious code?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 01:12 PM

Mister brought up an interesting point last night. A lot of the things we buy, including but not limited to clothing and electronics (and cars too!) are manufactured in the same factories, but different labels get put on them. Jeans you might buy at Target or K-Mart or Wal-Mart or Penneys, maybe have all been made in the same place - but the ones with the designer label on them will have a bigger price.

Same with electronics - the "generic" brands come out of the same factories as name brands.

So really it's all the same stuff you can buy nearly anywhere.

Stepping into the role of Devil's Advocate.......I can only talk about Nashville, because I don't know about anywhere else... but I've lived here nearly 30 years, and there haven't been too many Mom-Pop shops here in that time. Like I said before, we still have lots of privately-owned shops of all kinds - except for books and records. The only Mom-Pop book and record shops are 2nd hand places. The old Mills Bookstore wasn't put out of business by Wal-Mart - they closed because of competition from chain bookstores, and from another locally-owned bookstore that happened to be bigger.

Another thing to consider is that maybe sometimes Mom & Pop are looking for a good reason to retire.

Like Amos said...... companies like Microsoft and Wal-Mart are huge because people buy their stuff.

Stepping down now. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Blues=Life
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 03:08 PM

Boy, am I tired of all this crap, regarding a living wage at WalMart. Can any of you WalMart Bashers understand the concept of "entry level jobs?" Not everyone deserves to make $30K a year, especially teenagers on their first jobs! If you want to, you CAN advance at WalMart, and make a decent living. For example, my wife started working at WM 7 years ago as a part-time, third shift, pre-Christmas temp. She just wanted to earn some money so she could go back to school, finish her BA, and get a job. 7 years later, she still doesn't have a college degree, and is still working at WM. And I can hear you thinking, "See what evil old WalMart is doing! Taking away her chance at a good job and an education!" Um, that's fine, but instead of taking out loans for 2 1/2 years of higher education, and then hoping she could land a job, she has been moving up within WM, and is due to become a store manager sometime after Christmas this year. What other company doesn't give a damn if you have a college degree, but only cares if you can do the job, and will reward you for that ability? Also, she can take the training she has received and get a job with any other retail business. One small problem with that. None of the others pay as well. Plus, she really enjoys the work.
So although she hasn't paid for her college education, it looks like she'll be paying for our childrens'.
Yeah, so you hate WalMart. Shut up and don't shop there. No one is making you go.
Blues


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 03:14 PM

"Boy am I tired of all this crap......"
Shut up and don't read it (?)
:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 03:16 PM

Oh, eat my farts.

I don't shop there but I got dragged in there last month by someone who does. And I saw something verrrrrrrrrry scary:

An extra-large teddy (as in sexy lingerie) in (no kidding) camoflage-pattern green.

*shudder*

I'm still having nightmares.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 03:23 PM

So was it the size or the camo you didn't like? Just who is it you're maligning here anyway? Our noble military or our weight challenged sisters?
: )
Chip


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 03:29 PM

"By god, Earline. Yew shure are lookin' sexy tonaght in thet thar thang. Let's go do it in the tree stand!... Grab them pork rinds too."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 03:42 PM

Cluin: Oooh! I'll have to check my local Wal-Marts and see if they have one in stock! hee hee hee

Seriously, it'll match the camouflage-green fuzzy blanket that I already have on my bed. Come to think of it, I bought that at Wal-Mart, too... Really! I did!

Yeah, I have to go along with those who are pointing out that WM is not the only demon in town. Mom-and-Pop stores have struggled to compete with big chain stores for as long as there have been big chain stores. Farmers' markets and neighborhood grocers have been struggling to compete with supermarkets for as long as there have been supermarkets. WM just happens to be the latest in a long line... and they do have lower prices than their competition carrying the same quality merchandise. Note, for example, the post above that mentioned that the Ames chain couldn't compete (and, around here, the local Jamesway and Bradlee stores couldn't compete with Ames before that, and so on...).

Besides, Wal-Mart seems to treat its employees better than the other discount chain stores do, and they seem to have a policy of keeping their stores cleaner and maintaining a more customer-friendly atmosphere overall. Yes, there are some employees who can't put a round peg in a round hole, but that's true all over (including at the Mom-and-Pop stores!).

Comparing Wal-mart to a high-end specialty business like L.L. Bean or a dime-store business like Woolworth's or a general store of yesteryear is, IMO, comparing apples and oranges. These four are different types of businesses with different target customers and different marketing strategies. As others have said, if one does not prefer to frequent the discount-superstore type of business, one need not shop at Wal-Mart.

Personally, I can't complain too much about Wal-Mart; it helps keep the company I work for in business, so it indirectly helps me from being laid off from my job!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 03:46 PM

Hmmm... should've said Wal-Mart helps keep me from being laid off from my job. It helps me stay employed at my job. There, that sounds clearer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 03:47 PM

Here in buck-hunting territory, a girl occasionally needs a little help competing with the buddies at the hunting camp when Buck Day rolls around. Or have you not heard Debby McClatchy's song on the topic? I think it would be a riot.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 04:32 PM

Well I'm glad I started this one, even if it only give Amos a chance to push his agenda ;¬]>*BG*
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 04:42 PM

My agenda? SHOP CAMSCO!!! You'll never find MUDCAT CDs at Wal Mart!! We're holding the line on this one!!!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 05:00 PM

I don't care a lot for them myself, but that's more on a basis Mick would address. Problem is folks, we be broke! So when we went to buy new bikes for our kids, they were by far the best price and brand. We couldn't have afforded a specialty shop........So let me ask you this........

Ever buy from Elderly or another on-line source for things that could be had locally?

Have you had your oil changed as a Fas-Lube joint instead of a private garage?

And if you need a part for your car, do you go to NAPA or a locally owned private store.....or do you go to Autoworks or Autozone?

Do you buy your gas from a full service station owned by a local dealer (yeah, they still exist) or do you buy price?

Did you get your new plumbing/electrical/flooring/etc. from locally owned stores or did you go to Lowes or Home Depot?

The list could go on and on. Wal-Mart was a different place when Sam was alive, but that's another debate entirely. But as to products being fake or whatever........If you believe that many things don't come from exactly the same factories, you probably still believe in the Easter Bunny. See all that windshield washer solvent at lots of different prices? Do you know how many companies actually make the stuff? Don't guess higher than four.

I buy a lot from Mom&Pop ops when I can, buy all my gas at the local station with local ownership.......We try to support local businesses, but within 10 miles of the closest Wal-Mart you can find Target, K-Mart, Meier, and many others including the big hardware joints. If you can afford not to patronize them, don't. We just can't afford not to..........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 07:04 PM

So, Spaw, man, where ya gtonna buy your Mudcat CDs from? I believe I have an email around here with a vow of yours on it....

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 07:24 PM

It is nice to see some voices of reason in this thread for a change. Not everybody can afford to go to a Dillard's, L.L. Bean, or Neiman Marcus to shop. Mom and Pop everything began disappearing years ago as somebody already pointed out. Soon they will completely disappear. How many of you frequent a Mom and Pop video store? There used to be one on every street corner. Unless you live in a very small town, you probably don't have many of those around anymore do you? Why? They disappered because they could not compete when Blockbuster, Hollywood Video and other like giants moved in. That's just business.

People shop where they can buy what they want at the lowest price possible, and stores like WM are awfully hard to compete against because they have huge buying power at the wholesale level. Wal-Mart serves a useful function and several of you, including Spaw in his last post, have pointed that out.

Another business that was once operated almost totally by Mom and Pop operations that will soon be a thing of the past is Travel Agencies. The airlines have stopped (most of them) paying commissions to agents. Agents are then forced to charge the client a fee for selling them a ticket. A lot of people who have been use to getting the service of travel agents for free don't like that. So what do they do? They book on the Internet. You can book a trip around the world on the Internet. Want to blame the Internet for the disappearance of the Mom and Pop travel agencies? The airlines? That's just progress, my friends. Nothing ever stays the same in business.

Sometimes it appears to me that too many of us Mudcatters look at the glass and see that it is half empty instead of half full.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 07:37 PM

Well, for that HALF-FULL feeling, folks, ya gotta hear them MUDCAT CDs. They brighten up your horizons in NO TIME!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Banjer
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 07:39 PM

Spaw, a word of advice my friend. Go to your local Dollar Store, if you have one. The sign on the window of a local one here says, "EVERYTHINGS a Dollar". Load up your shoppimg cart til it won't hold another thing and then go to the register and hand the lady a dollar. When she gives you a funny look point out that the sign says, Everythings a dollar and tell her "everything I want is in this cart! Can't hurt to try!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 08:03 PM

I gotta be honest folks, I have never found a single thing at Wal-Mart that I couldn't get elsewhere of a superior quality for a similar price. I pinch pennies so hard they scream -- if you want to find quality service and competitive prices, you need to think beyond mini-mauls and big Mauls.

Unless you don't think the hours you spend wandering around Wal-Mart looking for the accessory which they deliberately "merchandise" on the opposite end of the store counts. Time is my most precious commodity of all. Every hour I don't spend dodging screaming kids and have my ankles whcked by a shopping cart is an hour I can spend reading, playing or listening to music, or spending with my friends and family.

I don't really see the consolidation of all spending at giant monolithic corporate big boxes as "progress." It becomes about the lowest common denominator and lowest price, and selection or quality becomes irrelevant. I don't WANT sheets that last year in which they rub you raw. I don't want panty hose that are guarenteed to run the minute you put them on, when I can spend twice as much and have them last for years. I defy you to find more than one species of eggplant at a Super Wal-Mart at the peak of summer, when 10 or 15 varieties are ripe and waiting for half the price at a farmer's market or local produce stand.

I don't think it's progress to use your market clout to muscle your vendors into having to lower their prices so far, they close down American factories and send the jobs overseas. Of course, if your local textile mill shuts down, you can always get a job working for less money at Wal-Mart. Good thing prices are cheap there; it's the only place you can afford to shop.

Money is kinda funny. I know folks that claim they are broke -- some that really ARE -- yet they spend hundreds every month on sodas, garbage "convenience" food and disposable products. They can't buy school books for their kids, but they have a 32" TV and cable. I spent $10 on fabric remnants and old table cloths at a local thrift store to make napkins and paper towels several years ago when I was really, REALLY broke (I was working part time for minimum wage and living in LA), and haven't spent a penny on paper napkins since. I know folks that spend more than that every month on paper towels.

Sorry, I don't think Wal-Mart and the kind of products they sell are "cheap." I think they are very, very expensive in the long run. If your cheap Wal-Mart shirt costs half the price and lasts half as long... the savings is...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 08:24 PM

I applaud Nicoles brilliant analysis. On the other hand the MUDCAT CDs will give you MUCH more enjoyment than any other CD you could buy!!

What ARE you waiting for???


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: curmudgeon
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 08:40 PM

I guess that living in the sticks does have its advantages.
I get strings and picks from Gary's Guitars.
I get my oil changed at Price's Sunnyside Garage. he always checks the fluids and tire pressure - no charge. I also get all of my repairs done there.
I get parts from Robbins.
I get gasoline at Lee Circle Market or Islington Street Getty.\
Plumbing and electrical supplies, and hardware in general from Gooch's Log Home Hardware.
Lumber comes from Fernald's Saw Mill.
Groceries come from Market Basket, a MA-NH chain.
Meat from Lee Circle Grocery.
Fish from Lo' s Oriental Market
I did buy a cofee maker from K-Mart.

I realise that urban folk do not always have the choice of vendors, nor do most suburbans, but rather than squander too much time in one of these HUGE stuporstores, take a closer look at your community. You might be pleasantly surprised -- Tom


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Dec 02 - 11:57 PM

Hey Amos... how about you SHUT UP ABOUT THE STUPID FECKIN MUDCAT CDS!?!?!?!?!?! Anybody who cares has already heard ya...

As far as Mom & Pop stores go... they're the last of the breed, the ones you see now... soon they will be just a memory... it's called "Survival Of The Fittest"... and it bothers me not at all...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Marion
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 01:55 AM

Sed said: What would really help me better appreciate WalMart would be if they allowed streetsingers to perform and sell their recordings and broadsides outside their zillions of stores...

I've busked in front of a Walmart, Sed, and I lasted an hour till someone cared enough to kick me out. Made good money too. In fact, the first few months I was playing fiddle I would always go over to the Walmart next door after closing to practice (to spare the people in my apartment building, and because Walmart had good lighting and rain shelter and tables in front).

Once when I was in the US I was amused to see a sign on front of a Walmart saying, "For gun returns please go directly to the service counter". I guess that's a big problem in the States, eh? Someone comes in looking angry and waving a gun and you can't tell if they're there for a massacre or if they're just dissatisfied with the merchandise?

Marion


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 10:39 AM

Spaw,
Don't try telling me the easter bunny isn't real. I've met your kind before. Next thing, it's santy and I know damn well santy's real cause I pay for his presents every year!
And yes, I know products made in the same factory are marketed under different brand names. Sorefingers' post seemed to suggest that Walmart is selling cheap counterfeits made elsewhere and calling them Levis. A very different thing.
NicoleC,
You're right about the quality/cost issue but poor folks can't always come up with the bucks to buy a superior, longer lasting product. So you buy three cheap shirts in three years rather than one good one that lasts three years.......or single wides, or old used cars etc. I call it the poor man's installment program!
Wallmart is not the problem. The problem is the spread of the few huge outfits (like wallmart) squeezing out all the smaller outfits at all levels of business. Weather it's gasoline, modular housing, wallmart or groceries, it's the same thing. The bigger you get the better the giverment likes you and the more favorable treatment you'll have from them come tax time. Or antitrust time. For me, the problem with all this is the consolidation of too much power in too few hands. And in the end, too few choices for the rest of us.
Answers? Hell, I don't know......I guess I'll just ride this train till it wrecks then see what's next!
: ),
Chip


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 10:45 AM

Chip, my only response to your post, especially the last larger paragraph is...........BINGO!!! You got it!!! I dunno' either......I wonder if it isn't a case of us bringing on the Walmarts as opposed to Wal-Mart taking over........You hit it square in your post!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 11:03 AM

Nicole: Where on earth do you find pantyhose at any price that lasts for years? I can't find any that don't snag and/or run within the first couple of wearings no matter where I buy them.

For that matter, where do you find these items of superior quality at prices similar to WM's? I'd certainly rather have superior quality without paying more, so I'd love to know!

I'm a bit puzzled about your statement that shopping at WM takes too much time. Doesn't it take more time to drive to multiple Mom-and-Pop specialty stores and farmer's markets, find a parking space at each location, and go through the check-out procedure at multiple registers? Also, doesn't it cost more in gasoline and wear-and-tear on the car?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 11:08 AM

Gee, CH!! Ya wake up, didja? SOrry to disturb your rest, there, mate!

Order yours yet? Feelin' guilty?


OK, OK, I promised allanc I'd give it as rest, and I will -- and in exchange he's gonna see if he can do something about "What Has WalMArt Ever Done For Us" threads which have added so MUCH redeeming value to the fairgrounds here. At least we have something real to offer in the Mudcat Sampler CDs.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM

Clapping hands for Amos!
: ), Chip


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Big Tim
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 11:50 AM

How much to Walmart pay their staff? In the UK, Safeway pay minimum wage, £4.20, for the first three months, then £4.60.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 12:52 PM

LOL, Sorcha! Well, I fortunately get to avoid panty hose any more, but I always had excellent luck with Hanes Sheer Energy. If you get the Hanes catalog (or go online) you can buy "seconds" for half the price, which usually meant that one leg was 1/8" longer than the other. Big deal.

I guess the time issue depends on your situation. I do all my grocery shopping at the local coop. There's an amazing fish market that has local fresh fish on the way home. My coop has an excellent bulk foods section, where I buy all my staples, and local organic produce, but if I want a bigger selection, I go across the road from my office on my lunch break to hit the farmer's market. Once upon a time I used to "subscribe" to a farm for $50 a month -- once a week I picked up a box of seasonal produce, and I had to split the box with someone because I couldn't eat it all.

If I need clothes, I have a handful of local shops that I go to... I just make a shopping circle and I'm done. That happens once or twice a year. But there aren't any clothes I want at Wal-Mart anyway. The 5 and dime by my house sells underwear, socks and kitty litter, candles and knick-knacks for less than wal-Mart. I have an Ace franchise next to it if I need to fix something around the house. My pharmacy is near my office; another lunch break trip once a month. I don't have any local shops for books or music and the big chains don't carry much of a selection, so I buy from Amazon.

There's aren't big lines and cash registers at any of these places. As a matter of fact, I wish they had MORE customers.

That pretty much covers my shopping needs. What else do you really need? My car is a diesel so I hit the truck stop next to the freeway every two weeks. If I *must* go to the Maul, I just park at the light rail station near my house and take it to the mall downtown. No fuss, no parking spot woes, no driving around.

I honestly don't understand this culture of needing to go out and buy things every weekend. What does Wal-Mart have that's so special you would want to shop there all the time anyway?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 01:30 PM

Nicole,

{psychobabble on}

I think it is a psychological gimmick -- being surrounded by mountains of glitzy shiny stuff and loud noises and crowds makes some people feel like they are actually having stuff. People who are slightly less numbed out and less meat-headed can have stuff just by walking down the street, psychologically speaking -- in other words they can enjoy the experience by direct appercetion rather than through the intermediary of lugging all that glitzy mass and big boxes around. THe more numb you get, the more force and mass it takes to convince you you are experiencing anything. My own belief is that the same is true of other things like information -- you get numb enough, all you can garner information from is loud advertising. Those who are a little more alive can get it from other sources up to and including the environment itself by direct perception.

(/psychobabble}


Regards,


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 01:58 PM

Yeah, Amos, I know what you mean. Seems like folks can't walk out of a Wal-Mart or Target or Costco or other monolithic store with less than $100 spent. Of which, they really only needed the toilet paper that they originally came in for.

Wal-Mart *IS* merchandising king. They make you walk past aisles and aisles of "hey, it's only $4.88!" to get to the batteries you need to make your gizmo you just bought in electronics to work. 5 or 6 "hey, it's only $4.88!" items later, you've busted your budget on more stuff you don't need.

Fact is, we live in a society where buying things and eating things are the Prozac of the masses. It's starts when you are a baby -- baby cries so you give it something sweet -- continues when you are a toddler -- toddler is tired and fussy in the store, let's buy him a TOY -- is rampant by the time you get to high school and your social position is based on your wardrobe and car -- and by the time you have your own disposable income, you're hooked. Is it any wonder we live in a land full of overflowing garages, credit card debt and obese people frantically trying to lose weight while burdened by the habit of compulsory and habitual eating?

I may hate Wal-Mart, but it's just a symptom. You can't really blame Sam Walton for being a success by pandering to the desires of the masses to aquire more STUFF, even if it isn't worth having. I think Woolworth's started the trend, although it might actually be Sears, the original mass-market merchandiser.

I watched Wal-Mart devastate my grandparent's very small, mountain town. At first they were excited about having a big store locally, instead of having to drive 40 miles into the city. But this town, never wealthy, is even poorer than ever. The main drag is shut down, all the shops have closed, and now everyone HAS to shop and work at Wal-Mart. Even the grocery store is gone. Meanwhile, the $ spent at Wal-Mart leave their small town and fill corporate coffers, and the schools and churches are dependant on the charity of the big store because the local citizens can't afford to support their fund-raising efforts anymore.

It's an old coal-mining town. You'd have think they'd learned their lesson about the company store the first time around.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:05 PM

Saint Peter, doncha call me --- 'cuz I can't go!

I oweeeeee mah soul to that company store!


Being independent of mind is always a harder row to hoe, but it certainly has benefits, like steering clear of this sort of mass hypnogoguery!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:29 PM

Amos, that's two posts, and you never mentioned the wonderfull Mudcat CD from Camsco. Next time you post, don't forget to mention the magnificent Mudcat CD from Camsco. OK.
Giok
PS Don't forget to mention the orgasmic Mudflap CD from Camsco.
PPS Do you know that Dick's flooded?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:41 PM

Heh heh! You have a point, Nicole! I'm certainly guilty of going to WM and coming out with more stuff than was on my list. But one of my reasons for going there (or to K-Mart or, when it was open, to Ames or Bradlee's or Jamesway) is that I make that shopping circle with a cart instead of a car.

I did live in a small town for 13 years that had everything within easy walking distance of my apartment: a post office, a Mom-and-Pop market, a Mom-and-Pop 5&10, a Mom-and-Pop discount movie theater, a Mom-and-Pop pharmacy that rented videos, a Mom-and-Pop chinese restaurant, a Mom-and-Pop pizzeria, a Mom-and-Pop family restaurant, a train station, a bus stop in front of the apartment building, and more. And my workplace was only 7 blocks away! Still had to drive to buy clothes and gas and farmers' market veggies, but that was about it.

The Mom-and-Pop market and 5&10 closed because of the deaths of one Mom and one Pops and the retirement of the surviving spouses. The chinese restaurant was closed because they were serving cat meat, and the family restaurant had a fire. The post office closed as part of government cutbacks. The Philly transit authority stopped sending commuter trains to that station because of their own economic woes (they kept the bus line, though). The movie theater and pizzeria are still there, and the pharmacy is still a pharmacy though it sold out to the Eckerd's chain. The workplace is still there, too... but they laid me off, I had to look elsewhere for work, and when I found it I moved elsewhere 6 years ago to (a) be closer to the new workplace and (b) get away from the respiratory irritants where I was living (the pollution from the street, the residue and fumes in the air from surrounding farms with farmers' markets, and the mold and cigarette smoke in the apartment building)!

Now I have to either walk too far to get into the current town with what Mom-and-Pop shops it has (not nearly as diverse!), or else drive. Sometimes I do drive into town and walk to some of the shops (notably the two thrift stores) and carry stuff back to the car, but it really is more convenient (and easier on my arthritic body!) to wheel one cart up to my car than to carry bags for blocks. Also, because of my respiratory problems, it's better for me to shop in one air-conditioned environment than to walk in and out of stores where the outside temperature and humidity are vastly different from the inside, and where I have to breathe auto exhaust fumes from the street. So there ya go, that's why I prefer the superstores and supermarkets (in addition to the discount pricing and the sales)!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 02:56 PM

SOrry, Giok, I have been advised that my exuberance was being over-wrought!! Guess some folks don't like waking up from a deep sleep. But thank you for carrying on the GREAT TRADITION.

I didn't know Dick was flooded!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:12 PM

An aside... sorry...

But Sharon...

"The chinese restaurant was closed because they were serving cat meat"

I gotta call "Bollocks!"

You mean to tell me that the folks runing the restaurant found it easier to creep around the neighbourhood at night with flashlighs, trank guns and baseball bats chasing cats than to go to the butcher and buy meat?

I somehow doubt it very much...

Back to yer petty Walmart bashing folks...

:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:14 PM

Sharon (did I call you Sorcha?), I'm glad you have a choice. Lots of folks just don't any more; it's getting harder and harder.

We have this huge swap meet locally, and it's spawned a local trend of having these little light-wieght stand-up carts that fold up and you leave them in the back of your car. Very handy for big shopping at the farmer's market, especially if you want melons or winter squash! But these little guys are everywhere now, and very popular with the aging crowd and mom's with toddlers who want to keep a hand free to hang on to their kid.

If you are in rural or semi-rural country, I highly recommend checking out Community Supported Agriculture. Small farmer's benefit from a steady source of income and don't have to compete through distribution with the mega-farms in Chile and Mexico, and you get incredibly fresh produce -- usually picked that morning. Most grocery store produce is at least a week old. Some farms deliver; other's have various local drop-off points, and their customers get to have a say in what crops they plant.

So Cal gets blamed for being la-la land, but this kind of stuff really goes on in No Cal. We even have a local small dairy that has decided to give up selling to the big milk brands, and has gone back to home delivery of morning-fresh milk!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:16 PM

Clinton, in some places cats are raised for meat just like chickens or cows. I kid you not. I used to live in Koreatown, and yes, those ARE dead cats hanging in the window...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:17 PM

Well, if they call it food, then why not eh...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:27 PM

Clinton: LOL! Honestly, I don't know if the chinese-restaurant story is true, but that was the story going 'round at the time! I was just glad that I always ordered the shrimp & veggies platter from that place.

BTW, the family-owned meat-packing plant in that town in which I used to live is one of the ones that had to be closed down and cleaned because of a listeria contamination earlier this year. I'm afraid that the "Mom-and-Pop" label does not always indicate superior quality!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:37 PM

Seriously, is cat the other other other white meat?

Seems unlikely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:43 PM

True! But the big plants aren't immune either -- they just clean up and go back to work when it happens; the little shops just can't survive that kind of event. Hardly a month goes by when one of the big meat distributors doesn't recall 100,000 pounds or so of contaminated meat. Yuck. It always seems to be pre-made hamburger patties, too.

My Mom lives in rural, rural, RURAL Alabama. The meat at her local grocery store is tinged kinda... green... She survives by subscribing to one of those door-to-door frozen meat delivery plans. 100 pounds of chicken or beef at a time!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:45 PM

Nicole sez: "I'm glad you have a choice. Lots of folks just don't any more; it's getting harder and harder." Yep, that was one point behind my story of the town I moved from. Some of the choices I used to have there don't exist there anymore, but not just because of discount superstores' "pandering to the desires of the masses to acquire more STUFF". Those businesses that closed could've been replaced by others, but when the post office and the commuter train service were pulled out of town, even though more people were moving out of the city to that community and swallowing up farmland for housing developments, the message was sent that the community had better start looking to some other centralized location besides the center of town for its needs. That location became the shopping-center-strip-mall-fast-food district outside town, since residents of the community had to drive to find services anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 03:53 PM

Nicole: Green eggs and ham for real, huh? *bleah* True enough that the big plants can survive a setback better than a small place... and that holds for the discount superstores, too, I guess. A conglomerate like WM (emphasis on "glom"!) can deal with an economic downturn better than a Mom-and-Pop store, and not just because of the number of people who prefer to shop at one place or the other but also because of the great difference in investment options available to ride out a bad year or a recession. I'm not sure that any amount of local support for one's local shops can overcome that investment factor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 04:00 PM

"Seriously, is cat the other other other white meat?"

No... according to a t-shirt one of my band mates has, BABY is the other white meat

LOL!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 04:01 PM

...depending on the ethnic origin of the baby...


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:17 PM

Wow, T-shits with Fat Bastard lines.

Available at yer local Wal-Mart. Get `em B4 they drop in price.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:18 PM

Whoops. Typo. Should be "T-shirts".

Or maybe I was right the 1st time?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM

On the local news they just showed a big table. At this time of year, K Mart, Ames and Bradlees used to fill those tables with toys for poor children. Guess what Wal-Mart is doing....NOT A GODDAMN THING. But, that's just business; yeah right, tell it to those kids Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 12:40 AM

Well, Kendall, Wal-Mart learned a long time ago that you don't make a profit by giving away stuff, including toys! :>) What did LL Bean contribute by the way? *G*

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 01:13 AM

I own a real nice L.L. Bean flannel/plaid shirt I bought for $2 at a local second hand store. Got real nice Dockers slacks, shirt and shoes. Second hand stores, resale shops, garage and yard sales. The shoes were seconds bought for $25 at Family Shoe Outlet in Washington, Missouri. I buy food at Save-a-Lot, owned locally, Seitter's Market (also local) and get my van serviced at Purcell's (local) and my hardware and tools from New Haven Lumber (local) and Numerous household stuff from Dollar General, a locally managed market and eat out (when I can afford it) at the Front Street Grill or the Colony House or the Hill Top lounge (25 cent MUGS of draft beer during their three hour long happy hour - terriffic hamburgers too) In other words I rarely shop at Waljunk. When I do it is for medicine, hunting gear (we have NO local sporting goods store but I buy my deer and turkey tags from the local hardware store) and bluejeans. There ARE cheap blue jeans at Dollar General but only "relaxed fit" and I prefer straight leg bootjeans. They sell "Rustlers" for $9.96. Oh yeah, I also buy my AT&T phone card minutes from Walsmell. I guess what I'm rambling on about is Walmart occasionally has a use but I find that because I must drive fifteen miles one way (about a gallon of gas for the van) I don't save anything by going to the big blueandwhite thing shop. I do buy videos from them but no one else around here has EVER offered videos for sale and its about 50 miles to the nearest Blockbuster. Got O Brother for $9.96 too!

CB


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Peg
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 01:29 AM

good point CB! I buy about 80% of my clothing at thrift shops; great way to save and get very good quality labels! I go through my shoes pretty hard from all the walking and hiking I do and can't be buying flimsy plastic crap at Payless. I hunt the bargain racks and sales and often get new shoes at a fraction of their regular price. Then again I have small feet and can get my size leftover. I am wearing a pair of $140 Fluevog boots that cost me $50. Since new clothing for women is so expensive and much of it poorly made I would rather get something second hand and know the label is a quality one...and vintage clothes? They don't make stuff like that anymore; army surplus, old cashmere, vintage leather, etc. Great stuff and a great way to reduce, reuse and recycle!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Genie
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 03:34 AM

Khandu, thanks for those suggestions!  LMAO!

SINSULL, Kendall, You're absolutely right!   WalMart is a Communist/Terrorist plot to destroy small businesses throughout the US and then go under themselves leaving us (deservedly) without a hardware store, bakery, toy store, whatever. And Wal-Mart really is the anti-Christ organization!

Norval, thanks for the stats on Wal-Marts' "job creation!"

Nicole, your story actually beats mine about the Safeway checker who got out a calculator when I handed him 2 10-cent-off coupons!  (He couldn't figure out how much to subtract without using the calculator.)

And, Doug R, I DON'T go near a Wal-Mart!  At least not in.  Funny thing:  Alberton's is right next door to a Wal-Mart near my house, and Wal-Mart's outdoor pop machine charges 30 cents for a can of soda, to Albertson's 25 cents!    (Albertson's isn't exactly "mom and pop" these days, but they're closer to it than Wal-Mart is.)

You folks who love Wal-Mart for its low prices, think about this:  Do you always buy the cheapest brand of a product, or are you willing to pay more for quality?  Why not be willing to pay a little more for a quality community and a quality society, where there aren't a few megacorporations owning everything?

Sharon, why write our representatives in Congress about this?  Wal-mart's operations are not illegal.  Better to vote with our feet and our wallets, and encourage others to join us.

But, Steve, if any store allowed buskers in the parking lot, I might patronize them!   That's really letting the wealth "trickle down!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: SharonA
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 10:08 AM

30 CENTS FOR A CAN OF SODA??? 25 CENTS????? We're lucky to find a soda machine around here that'll dispense a can for 75 cents!! Most are $1 or above.

As for writing congressmen, I was referring to complaints about unfair employee treatment and hiring practices and the like – the stuff that some here are alleging goes on at WM that is illegal. Besides, the local representatives and other local government officials would be in a position to discourage or disallow the rezoning of property for the construction of yet another Wal-Mart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 12:55 PM

Boy, folkies are a cheap bunch! I shop at thrift stores, too, although the pickings aren't nearly as good here as they were when I lived in LA and could hit the Goodwill nearest Beverly Hills!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: chip a
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 01:59 PM

I get lots of my stuff from yard sales, flea markets and thrift shops too. The pickings are much better around here as gentrification sets in. That's a subject for a whole other thread!
Poor folks use what they have till it's worn out. In a poor area the yard sales etc. don't yeild much. You won't find L.L.Bean or such stuff at a flea market in a depressed area of the U.S. When a family living six miles below the poverty level sells something it's likely used up.
Now in comes wallmart and runs out the local small businesses. What little choice there was is gone. Work oppertunities are gone. Even if wallmart pays the same as the old job, not everyone wants to make that trade. The guy who did tire changing, brakes, grease and oil with no benefits in a three man shop may not give a damn about working for a big, faceless joint where your check comes from far away. And his wife and kids can't come in and have a picnic on the workbench at lunchtime.
My point is just that in a real rural or depressed area, when the big outfits come to town there's a much bigger impact than when they come to a more affluant area. When one big guy sets up shop in a little town it can be years before another one thinks it's worthwhile moving in. So, during this period you have almost no choices. The big store can be about as callous as they want and get away with it.
But all I do is complain! I really don't see a change of any kind ahead. Just more and more of the same.
: ), Chip


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Genie
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:15 PM

Sharon, the soda pop I'm talking about is the store brand stuff. Coke, Pepsi, etc. cost 50 cents to $1.00 in the stores machines (depending on size of can/bottle.) Safeway in the NW raised their price last year from 2 cents to 3 cents, and in San Diego, I can't find any pop in store machines for less than 50 cents

You thrift store and garage-sale shoppers, I'm with you. It's a great way to find real treasures at bargain prices and promote re-use of stuff (minimize the need for landfills) at the same time. For clothing, dishes, books, and a lot of household goods and tools, I buy almost exclusively second-hand.

Genie


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:35 PM

Like any good Republican, I shop at Neiman Marcus, Nordstrum's, Dillard's and sometimes, but not often ...at Robinson-May. I walked by a Penny's and Sears store a few times but I only window shopped.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 04:44 PM

Either there's too many or not enough. We got Eagle Hardware which appeared to wipe out a truly excellent locally owned store, then I learned the locals were retiring and no one wanted to take over. Then Home Depot opened up right next to Eagle, then Eagle became Lowe's. Walmart and K-Mart opened up at the same time. I just figure at some time the market here will be over-retailed and a few of the big boxes will be turned into indoor rec centers.

I don't know how many good jobs we're losing versus poor jobs we're gaining, has anyone done hard research on the issue.

As far as shooting them all, except for doug's kid, sounds like a very palestinian approach. That's sure to work, now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: kendall
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 07:21 PM

Profit profit profit. Tell it to St. Peter. He'll be impressed.
As a matter of fact, I have a good friend who works for Goodwill Industries and he says that L.L.Bean gives literally TONS of goods to them. They also donate Millions of dollars to charity. Screw Wal Mart and the greedy bastards who run it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,not the same one
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 07:26 PM

Guest, check out Part I of this thread. There was a post there on just the kind of research data you asked about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 04:38 PM

"I watched Wal-Mart devastate my grandparent's very small, mountain town. At first they were excited about having a big
store locally, instead of having to drive 40 miles into the city. But this town, never wealthy, is even poorer than ever. The main
drag is shut down, all the shops have closed, and now everyone HAS to shop and work at Wal-Mart. Even the grocery store
is gone. Meanwhile, the $ spent at Wal-Mart leave their small town and fill corporate coffers, and the schools and churches
are dependant on the charity of the big store because the local citizens can't afford to support their fund-raising efforts
anymore."

I read many reports like this over the years.

Folks don't expect evil MaulWart money sucking nor do they seem to understand how it removes up to 80% of local economic ingrowth. Put it this way, the money that used stay in a MaulWartbilghted city is now taken away to Waltonmoneybags Arkansas and so on.

It may be fun to buy that lemon Table Lamp - made in China for a few cents - but as well as falling apart in a few months the money you spent is now in a fat lazy Wartsqueezer's pocket, far far away in Switzerland!

Shop local and BOYCOT MAULWART !


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: saulgoldie
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:10 PM

Just returned from a week and a half trip (and boy, are my arms tired, etc...), so I'm ketching up. I didn't read each and every post here thoroughly. However, it does appear that no one has yet mentioned the Walmart case of forced labor with denial of overtime pay that is pending against them. Surprised am I that it has not figured in the discussion, what with all the folk music concern for workers and their rights. The other issues are all important (and not quite that simple, BTW). But having to work (to avoid getting fired) and not get paid for a portion of that time is about as basic as issues go, methinks. Won't shop there until the folks I trust give them a white glove inspection (not like the Denny's case where it was "over" until the next time, and then until the next time, yet again).

If anyone cares, yes it is quite nice to be "unplugged" (or should I say "un-wired?") for a spell, even if you miss your fellow 'Catters a wee bit (and I did).


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 08:34 PM

I am just back from an expedition to Price Club, a warehouse store with huge aisles lined with open boxes of everything from cigarettes to fancy collections of power tools in a plastic case, wines and tires and jeans and frozen burritos, flowers and camping gear -- you name it. The aisles are crammed with wide-eyed people of all kinds and levels of life, psuhing carts overflowing with all kinds of food, drink, tools, gimmicks, apopliances, clothes and books.

And I should add that even though the consumer spirit was enervating and the crowds were tiresome and the lines slow, there was an undercurrent of -- I dunno -- a sort of celebration of all the good survival and well-being that those wagons of food and stuff represented. And it made for good spirits throughout the place even while people were fretting over which color shirt or which brand of wine to buy.

In any case it was certainly a peaceful -- meaning cooperative and pleasant-- activity, and a celebration of plenty, and I found I could enjoy it for those reasons in spite of the other drawbacks.

A
A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 08:40 PM

What other drawbacks, Amos?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:58 PM

Sorry, DougR -- a meant "in spite of the drawbac ks" -- the crowding and the sense of being swept along in a miullstream of material acquisition which had no end....

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:05 PM

In spite of what "drawbacks," Amos? :>)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:12 PM

Jesus, Doug R, what's the matter with your ears?

You, perhaps, enjoy being swept up in crowds of people in a semi-hypnotic trance of material acqusition, doing a mass dance of sucking up material wares and goods far beyond their needs? I am all for celebrating the amazing productivity of our economy, but that doesn't mean I enjoy heavily crowded race-mills of overloaded carts, being elbowed by shoppers who are made oblivious and semi-hypnotized by the objects around them, and aisles lined with bleeping games and inane television shows being broadcast on floor models. If you get off on these things, go hang out at Wal Mart!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:32 PM

Well the old Sam's Club in Earth City (really!) Missouri is now InCahoots a GIANT cowboy dance club which books up-coming local and well established names and charges reasonable rates. HUGE dance floor, claimed to be biggest in the midwest. We go there to dance couples style country dancing with the occasional line dance for variety. Never paid more than 12 bucks each and that was to see Toby Keith. We've danced to Terry Clark's music, The aforementioned Keith, Tim McGraw, Alan Jackson and so on. They usually are near to their 3,500 person capacity and with their dollar a bottle long necks nights they make a LOT of money. Good use for an Old Sam's, hey?

They also have dance lessons for an hour or so before the first band starts up.

Oh, I just bought two pair of boot-leg Rustlers for $8.88 each!

There is no such thing as overtime at our Walmarts.

Management here in Washington RARELY fires anyone as I mentioned before but they lie about what your hours will be.

They hired a friend of ours to work midnight to 7 and within a week they had her on days working the cash register. She quit. The original hours she wanted were necessary because of her husband's schedule and because they need someone with their autistic son 24/7 and they can't afford to hire any help.

Management knew this from the git-go. Usually they "work with you" about scheduleing, they have with my friend, Nancy, we think that some admin type looking at her needs vis-a-vis her son feared that somehow Walfilth would end up having to cover some of their costs in that area. Who knows?

My friend Nancy was fired from a job when she told them she had to have her Thyroid removed due to cancer. Did it the day before surgery. They claimed she wasn't qualified for family medical leave. Of course she hadn't ASKED for such leave and had worked out her schedule so she could be back to work after what amounted to a four day weekend. This same company (Code Three) had allowed her to take TWO weeks leave to travel out to Wyoming just two months earlier. It was the inclusion of the word "cancer" that actually got her fired.

We learned the details at a later date. There wasn't a thing we could do about it. Turns out a nurse in her doctors office VOLUNTEERED the information that, worst case scenario, she would be out for as long as three months. Nancy was back, looking for work, by the next Wednesday, less than a week after telling them she had surgery that Friday for Thyroid cancer.

She is fine now but crappy decisions like that are common in "business"

and sorry for the thread drift!

CB


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 04:18 PM

Amos: the Wal-Mart you describe is not at all like the one I shop at. I suppose it is that crowded at times, but I don't recall seeing the conditions you regularly find yourself in at yours. Anyway, you live in San Diego don't you? You must have lots of options over there just as we do in Phoenix. I think many of the criticizms made here about putting little stores out of business applies less to cities than it does smaller towns. Or maybe one is less aware of it in cities. So many stores, so many choices.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 06:07 PM

Right you are, Doug. But it was Price Club which gets notoriously crowded at certain times of the week and seasons of the year, this being one.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Kim C
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

Nashville still has a locally-owned men's clothing store. Levy's has been in business continuously since the 1850s.

Of course.... they do have a niche market. It's all expensive designer stuff. Ferragamo and the like.

My thing is this: for things that I want to wear a long time, I buy from Lands End or LL Bean. I have a coat from LL Bean that I've been wearing for 10 years, a jumper I've worn every summer for the last 8 years or so, and several pairs of trousers from both places. Trendy, funky, fun things, that cost a lot at a department store, I buy at a discount place for half the price.

And food.... well, I don't skimp so much on food. I try to eat healthy, and make Mister eat healthy, and it ain't cheap to do that. We've figured out that we spend about the same amount of money on groceries no matter what store we go to - including Wal-Mart.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 04:25 PM

Sorefingers: you posted a message on December 4 reporting that Wal-Mart sells fake Sony products and Levi Jeans. Surely you jest. If Sony and Levi Strauss suspected that, the whole world would hear about it. And so would Wal-Mart's lawyers.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: GUEST,fiddleronthehorse@yahoo.com
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:06 PM

Have you guys heard this one yet?

                   MAL-WART:
   YOUR QUALITY SOURCE FOR CHEAP PLASTIC CRAP


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:15 PM

*in his best Homer Simpsons Voice*

Mmmm... Price Club...

:-P~~~~~~~~~~


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:47 PM

No, Guest Fiddler, I, for one have not heard that one. Hilarious!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:50 PM

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the recent report on NOW with Bill Moyers about WalMart and the lawsuits against them. Quotas that are required have caused managers to make employees work UNPAID overtime. Actions taken to keep unions out are also questioned.

OFF THE CLOCK

I've been to Bentonville to do a sales presentation to the Wal Mart Headquarters buyers. It was a weird world, a unique experience. The entry lobby is filled with rows of folding chairs. Vendors (99% or more male) dressed in black or grey business suits sit waiting for the clock to show time for them to enter the sales cubicles to meet buyers. When the time comes, a locked gate opens... everyone rushes in to their cubicle make their presentation. I was there with the owner of a sportswear company from Colorado who used to buy design work from me. I was the only person wearing colors in the large entry room filled with suited vendors! I was dressed in a teal sheath with fuschia jacket and teal high heels, matching fuschia purse and an art portfolio under my arm. The minute I stepped into the front door, all eyes in the vendor room turned to me. GAPE... a person not dressed in a dark business suit! I had a grin through the whole thing, it was so strange. As we left I finally noticed another woman in the herd... she was wearing a navy blue suit and had blended in perfectly with all the guys.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:53 PM

This is from the transcript that I linked to in the previous message:

..."ANDREA FLEISCHER: Jon Lehman, who is now one of several former Wal-Mart managers
                            working for the union, says what happened to Sidney Smith sounds like something right
                            out of the "Managers Tool Box To Remaining Union Free" - a confidential document that
                            Lehman says is given to every Wal-Mart manager with a toll free number direct to
                            corporate headquarters.

                            JON LEHMAN: And that brought the jet in with the labor relations guys in there And they
                            interview all the managers, they interview the associates.

                            They start talking about anti-union, "We don't need a union." They start showing videos.
                            They start going through personnel files looking for dirt on any associate that is, is a union
                            supporter, so that they can get 'em out legitimately. "


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:57 PM

So, how does Wal Mart keep those prices down? One way is to save money on payroll by having people stay in the store overtime without pay.

...'STEVEN GREENHOUSE: Would they actually order you to work off the clock, or was it
                            something you did that they really didn't know about?

                            FARRIS COBB, No, they knew. They all knew. That's what they would tell me that, um,
                            you have to do this for the company.
                           
                            ANDREA FLEISCHER: Russell Lloyd, a former judge, represents Farris Cobb, Liberty
                            Morales and 19 others in class action lawsuits filed in six states throughout the South.

                            RUSSELL LLOYD: Each of these individuals has been pencil whipped. A little here, a little
                            there, no claim is more than - worth more than two, three, four thousand dollars.

                            ANDREA FLEISCHER: But Lloyd calculates that for just one store in Texas with 250
                            employees, saving one hour of overtime per person per week quickly adds up.

                            RUSSELL LLOYD: That's 250 hours a week. That's a thousand hours a month. In one
                            store. That's roughly twelve thousand hours a year, he's getting free labor. Out of that one
                            store, and there's three hundred and some odd stores in Texas.

                            ANDREA FLEISCHER: That kind of arithmetic for the state of Texas alone, could mean 30
                            million dollars in savings in one year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:58 AM

Thank ye all for the good information.
WalMart is now trying to get a foot into Germany, with really big advertising. Maybe they have lower prices, but as a union man I won't buy there and will tell my fellows what I have learned here.

Wilfried


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:46 AM

My experience of doing a sales presentation in Bentonville (in the message before this thread split to page 4) was an inside peek into an organization I would never work for. Companies strive to become vendors for Wal Mart thinking they can really make big bucks. What can happen, as in the case of the apparel company I freelanced for, is that they promise a big order, the company puts all their effort into producing samples and production for Wal Mart, and after the initial order they change buyers internally or the rules regarding to which stores the vendor can sell. I've seen two companies gear up to be Wal Mart vendors, invest alot of time and money, set aside their smaller customers, and then after a year or so get dropped flat by Wal Mart. One company became a fourth of the size it was previously, the other company went out of business.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:09 AM

Another reason vendors take a big risk in selling their products through Wal Mart is the incredibly thin profit margin that they have to settle for in the promise that they will get big volume. The price points Wal Mart demands are extremely low, but as I said, manufacturers get wooed by the promise of huge volume. When the manufacturer has to cut back their own overhead to give Wal Mart the wholesale price demanded, while gearing up for a big volume order, they do things like buying tees from Hong Kong instead of USA (Russell Mills that made Jerzees from US cotton with US workers can't sell as cheap as Hong Kong).

The US garment workers and mills that used to make apparel have been drastically affected by this. The affect of Wal Mart, a business that has one fourth of the volume of the US defense budget, is like a huge domino falling on many areas of US manufacturing jobs, not just the locally owned shops.

Regarding local economy effect (Mom and Pop stores) the money from local purchases stays in the local town economy longer than the money spent at huge corporate stores. The dollars spent at a locally owned grocery will go to a local bank, locally anchored endeavors. The money spent at Wal Mart immediately goes out of your town to their headquarters. I don't think people realize how many things are affected by purchasing from the big box stores and Wal Mart.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Amos
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:59 AM

Good point, ALice. It'd be interesting to trace the volume of cash into and out of a local area attributable to one WalMart -- obviously the gross revenues far exceed the salaries, but they also have to pay rent, local utilities and taxes, and local maintenance services, for example.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 01:15 PM

Alice: the two examples of vendors that you gave in a post on December 11: they supplied goods to Wal-Mart and after a year or two, WM dropped them. Is it possible that the goods they supplied Wal-Mart were not selling well?

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:30 PM

No, Doug, I didn't say they dropped both of them. I said one lost much of its long time clients in trying to meet the price points and supply for Wal Mart Quality of the products was not the issue. One of them lost many of its long time customers because selling to Wal Mart was seen as a conflict in areas where the National Parks are located, so the park concessions began cutting back on orders from the shirt company that had become a Wal Mart vendor. As the profit margin with Wal Mart is slimmer because of the price points they demand, the volume did not make up for the National Park and souvenir shops in destination resorts that were set aside because of Wal Mart. The other company, the one that I went to Bentonville with as their freelance artist, eventually closed in part because of Wal Mart vendor rules being constantly changed.

Wal Mart has an internal revolving door of buyers. One month you're dealing with one person who has an idea to, as a real example, put "western" art on shirts in all the ladies apparel departments in the Rockies. It projects that they'll buy X number of dozens of garments. They write the order, all the vendor's other clients are put on the back burner, the buyer at Wal Mart gets transfered to another division and the new buyer says, No, I've got a different idea. The constant internal changing of personnel making the buying decisions and the changing of rules of what stores you could sell to, etc., are a notorious Wal Mart "game" in the manufacturer's industry. People who have been burned by Wal Mart are an example for others to be leery of becoming a vendor.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:47 PM

Buying from LOCALLY OWNED businesses is good policy in economic development for any community. "Buy Local" is becoming a watchword from Britain, to US to Australia.

Here is a bit of Western Australia's Buy Local policy.
Western Australia's Buy Local Policy.

More links to articles on local economic development are on the left side of the link to the page above.

QUOTE newrules.org
"...such policies help maintain long-term economic
                            health and stability. Although big box developers claim their projects will generate new
                            jobs and boost tax revenue, numerous studies have found otherwise. These big stores
                            usually force dozens of local businesses to close, destroying about as many jobs and as much
                            tax revenue as they create.

                            Much more of a dollar spent at a local store stays and multiplies in the local economy.
                            Local merchants support a variety of our local businesses, such as banks, printers,
                            accountants, and small manufacturers. Chain stores centralize these functions at their head
                            offices and keep local spending to a minimum.

                            Consumers have options about where to shop and the community as a whole is not overly
                            dependent on any one company. Corporate retailers tend to be fair-weather friends and
                            routinely abandon stores when the economic winds shift. Wal-Mart currently has more
                            than 350 vacant outlets nationwide." END QUOTE


Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Alice
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:40 PM

"Dropped flat" was a poor choice of words on my part. Wal Mart did not end their vendor status. I meant they continued to be Wal Mart vendors, but the result of being vendors was that their business suffered instead of being more profitable.

Alice


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: NicoleC
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 03:04 AM

I had the same issue when I was in sales. I had a perfectly good, big account ("S"), who suddenly decided that 4% gross profit margin was too high for them, even though that was bare bones for us. They demanded 1 1/2%. Well, cost of doing business was about 2%, as it was through most of the industry. I said no way.

Of course, they found some salesperson with dreams of having a big account in such a glamourous industry -- volume, volume, volume! One little shop after another either went out of business, or refused to sell to them after a while. None of them could really service the client or provide good quality at that price point. The end users at this big company were the ones that suffered. Eventually, said client started buying from me again at the regular pricing when they just couldn't get their 1 1/2%.

With a store like Walmart, there will always be another vendor or salesperson ready to take that sucker bet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: Midchuck
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:31 AM

If you get bored dumping on WalMart, you might take some time off and dump on Home Depot, which represents all the same problems in the hardware and building supplies field...or Staples, which is the same in office supplies/computers.

All we can do is buy from smaller retail businesses that are willing to treat us as real human beings, whenever we can. The bitch of it is that sometimes the monster places are the only ones that have what we need on hand. But if they do, you can't find it and no one who works there can either.

Home Depot is a wonderful place to just wander around in, and look at stuff. It's only a pain in the butt if you're trying to find something in particular.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bloody WalMart
From: DougR
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 05:52 PM

Alice: I would be hard pressed to blame Wal-Mart for what happend to the vendor you referred to. Anyone in business should recognize the danger of devoting too much of the business to one client, regardless of who it is. Lose the client and you are up the proverbial creek wihtout a paddle. If your argument is that vendors make the mistake of relying too much on Wal-Mart and run the risk, of ruin, I certainly would agree with you.

Nicole: you have heard the story, probably, about the efficiency expert the owner of a ice cream store brought in to evaluate his business. He was selling ice cream cones for a nickel (five cents U.S.) and customers qued up four abreast in a line that extended for blocks buying his ice cream cones, but he was going broke. The expert advised him that his ice cream cones were costing him ten cents to produce, so he would have to raise his prices. The business owner told him he was crazy. "That," he said, "would screw up my volume!"

DougR


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