Redneck is an insulting word

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 01:28 PM

Add. to FloraG post:

"It's not just rednecks who'll vote for Romney." John O'Sullivan, 28 August 2012.
"...a Mitt Romney victory. But be of good cheer: only a tiny preportion of his victory total would come from snake-handling rednecks or stump-toothed bootleggers from the hills. Nor will evangelicals anxious for Governor Romney to provoke a Middle Eastern..." (Have to subscribe to get the rest)

"Redneck" put in Search brings up a several columns of the past few years. The most recent:

"US goes sweet on Honey Boo Boo," Tony Allen-Mills, 26 August 2012.
"...un-American class warfare. For every television viewer who has tuned in to mock the eye-popping antics of a gruesomely unglamerous redneck family from the wrong side of the railway tracks in McIntyre, Georgia, there has been another who has found a more poignant..."
(Carried on Canadian cable, but I haven't watched it)

Also one on "You might be a redneck" gags.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 28 Aug 12 - 04:06 AM

Saw the term redneck used as a headline in the British Times today. Obviously no one in editorial has read this thread.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 09:17 AM

Thanks, brucie... I read the link and found it pretty interesting... I think that most folks who have been around a while have a little redneck in 'um...

I know I do... I like moonshine... I like trucks... I used to drive a race car (mini-stock)... I say "sir and I say mam"... I got my guns and I like 'um... I've sung many a country song in my day... Been is more than a few fistfights... Been drunk and hope to been drunk again... Can lean on the hood of truck for an hour talking with other folks who have at least a little (or a lot) of redneck in 'um about redneck stuff...

Rednecks, however, ain't into talking politics... No sir... They talk about building stuff, their cars and trucks, fishing, boats, dumb crimes that people do, sports, sports and more sports...

The folks here who are eat up with right winged politics are more than likely closer to what Krinkz calls "pantywaists"... Yeah, if a redneck does vote, he'll more than likely vote against his own interests, i.e. Republican and that's kinda a shame 'cause real rednecks ain't senseless... Okay, a tad undereducated, i.e. misinformed, but a real redneck ain't gonna go on and on about political stuff...

Hey, how about them Panthers last night???

B;~)

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 27 Aug 12 - 03:26 AM

We need more red necks and fewer pantywaists.
(:-( ))=

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Tony
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 02:02 PM

Speaking of red, I remember reading that Pinkerton agents would get enraged when strikers called them "pinks," because it implied an association with "reds," or communists, not with the red neck of the farmer.

I agree with the Wikipedia article, that "redneck" in the US today is derogatory. Foxworthy does use it humorously and includes himself in the group, but his jokes always characterize rednecks as people who are stupid, slovenly, and inbred.

And speaking of Chris Rock's use of the N word, I think the funniest comedy routine I've ever heard is his explanation of what that word means.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Aug 12 - 01:34 PM

Great article about the term 'redneck'.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 09:19 PM

And it's up against the wall, Redneck Mother
Mother who has raised her son so well
He's 34 and drinking in a honky tonk
Kickin' hippies asses and raising hell...

Heck of a song, ya'll... Written originally by Ray Wylie Hubbard, has been covered by everyone and if yer ever playin' to a bunch a bikers, which I have on occasion, play it... They all know it and will sing along on the chorus... Especially if they been drinkin'...

B~

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Aug 12 - 07:41 PM

Resident Redn**k hater:

"Don't get all carried away with Abe Lincoln... There was a lot of George Bush in him...

Southern, redneck, emotional and dumb..."

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 02:28 PM

I found that link, too. The song I remember is presumably a variant.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:52 PM

Found it, Charmion- or at least an 1894 version, sheet music, Levy Sheet Music, Johns Hopkins.
https://scholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/25356

"I'd rather be a Nigger than a Poor White Man," composed by Harry Earle.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 01:39 PM

On a range, a red flag is raised to tell innocent passers-by that the firing point is active and those who wish to avoid getting shot should remain behind the firing point.

Q, I have been googling for references to "The Druther Song" but so far have drawn a blank. I dimly remember seeing it in a shabby old book very long ago -- circa 1968, when my memory was very effective but my understanding of what I should commit to memory rather less so.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 12:37 PM

Red has several usages, some may not be evident to someone outside the U.S.
Red flags or red lanterns mean danger, or stop.
'Raise the red flag" was originally used to indicate readiness for battle.
Red is used to indicate hot temperature, red hot passion, etc.
"Red" applies to Communists, as noted by McGrath.

Wiki notes that 'red' was applied to Republicans in 2000; on election night all broadcast networks used that color to mark Rebublican election results. The GOP uses a red logo on its website, but it has not been officially adopted.
Blue was used for Democratic results.

A red light is often associated with a house of ill-repute.

Red is associated with the Devil.

Occult meanings.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 10:41 AM

"Am I right in thinking that red is not a popular colour in the USA. "

It must get confusing. If someone gets called a "Dirty Red", how do they know if they are being accused of being a Communist or a Republican?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: kendall
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 07:34 AM

You should know, Dick. LOL.I wasn't very clear in my post. The red necks of the miner strikes were hard working, honorable men; now, they are hillbillies and Bubbas.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 21 Aug 12 - 04:57 AM

I am always surprised at how much a common language can differ. In GB we would call strike breakers ' black legs' as the miners had dirty legs coming out of the pit.

Am I right in thinking that red is not a popular colour in the USA. ( red flag etc).

I wondered what the reaction from people in the USA was to the opening ceremony of the olimpics when we celibrated our national health service - one of our best loved institutions of the 20 century.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 09:43 PM

Webster's dates it to 1830.
OED quotations:
1830- "A name bestowed upon the Presbyterians in Fayetteville."
1893- "A name applied by the better class of people to the poorer inhabitants of the rural districts." A. Shands, "Some Peculiarities of Speech in Mississippi."
And many more.

Charmion, I would like to see the song. I remember it as a saying when comparisons were made between poor whites and Blacks. The poor whites often were in direr straits, in the minds of white southerners and southwesterners.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 09:18 PM

'Druther be a [disenfranchised African-American person] and work like heck
Than a poor Georgia cracker with a long red neck ...

Street song, circa 1880

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 08:51 PM

Kendall, it goes back a helluva lot longer than that.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: kendall
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 08:09 PM

I believe the word Red Neck originated in West Virginia during the coal miners strikes. The strikers all wore red bandanas around their necks so they wouldn't shoot each other.
Look up the Battle of Blair Mountain.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:42 PM

BTW, I thought that it is appropriate to say that I went to see Ray Wylie Hubbard week before last... He, for those who don't know about him, wrote "Redneck Mother", one of the finest honky tonk beer joint songs out there... Actually, had a nice talk with him...

B~

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: meself
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 12:58 PM

I don't have any mileage in this matter, so far! Thanks for the info., wasn't aware of that one. So - anyone else?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 12:36 PM

In my little world, "reg" is pronouced with a hard G and means a member of the Regular component of the Canadian Forces.

Your mileage may vary.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: meself
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 12:04 PM

Going 'way back up the thread: I'm curious about the (supposed) term "reg" - I've never heard it in my life, despite having spent much time in Ontario. Questions: 1) Has anyone else heard this term? 2) What is its derivation? 3) Is it pronounced as spelled, or like the diminutive of 'Reginald', i.e., 'rej'?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 11:16 AM

Shitkicker is a long established US term See Steinbeck.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 11:15 AM

If you're in the sun a lot, and wear a baseball type cap instead of a hat with a full brim all the way around, you're going to have a red neck unless you turn the cap around, with the bill at the back.

But I've seen posts highly critical of people who do just that - especially African-Americans. I don't understand. Maybe the logic is that African-Americans don't need to worry about red necks, so they shouldn't be allowed to turn their caps backwards? It's too philosophically complex for me.

Peter

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 11:13 AM

Another shitkicker heard from.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Sawzaw
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 11:10 AM

Bobert is fond of going back over 100 years to Thomas Jefferson quotes to back up the angry, hateful remarks he posts on Mudcat to stir up shit.

Then he can feed his HPD by claiming to be a victim.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Charmion
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 09:50 AM

Rednecks are people who have the poor taste to spend their days out of doors with their pale, European-descended skin exposed to the elements. Or am I missing something in the cultural interpretation?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 07:10 AM

I thought a redneck was someone who forgot their sun tan cream on the odd occasion we get good enough weather.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Ole Juul
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 06:45 AM

Two questions:

I've never heard the word "shitkicker" used in this part of the world. What country is it from?

I live in an area where there are a lot of rednecks, in both the cultural and political sense. The term is sometimes even used with pride. What does the OP suggest I call them?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 06:30 AM

Another shade of bigotry.
Poor uneducated whites are fair game.
Any other ethnic group is out of bounds.
(:-( P)=

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Allan C.
Date: 20 Aug 12 - 06:01 AM

They prefer "crimson about the collar" actually; but nearly everybody calls them "rednecks".

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 02:01 PM

Us po white trash cain't hep our rednecks. All we wants is our biskits and sorgum.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 11:57 AM

It's politer than shitkicker. Same connotation.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 11:52 AM

If Sawz, the resident shit-stirrer, had to go back a 100 years to find some shit to stir, he would...

Normal, and...

...yawn...

B~

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 11:46 AM

Responding to a 10 year old thread in order to stir up enmity is interesting...................

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 10:44 AM

Generalizing. It's a form of bigotry. You people. You're all alike. Every damned one of you.
(:-( 0)=

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Aug 12 - 10:10 AM

Guess Who:

If the rednecks want out that bad then don't let the door hit ya'll on the way out... Ya'll allready have the highest divorce rates, the highest obesity rates, the highest health care costs, the dumbest people, the most per cpaital federal tax dollars returend to ya'll so ya'll becoming a drain on the rest of the country.... Yeah, if ya'll want out then fine with me... I rather live in an ara where people ain't brought up thinking that the government owed them everything while criticizing the hand that feeds 'um...

I mean, these people couldn't survive 30 days without the northweat and west coast paying in the bigass $$$s that in turn got dooled out to them... Bunch of ungratefull crybabies as far as I can see.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 12:03 AM

Redneck is an insulting word,
Beauty is a blossom,
And if you want your finger bit,
Stick it at a possum.

Chorus)
Fod !!!

(A rare version of a good old trad song as sung by Frank Warner.)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Cluin
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 11:37 PM

When your house don't have no curtains, but your truck does.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Redbeard
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 11:18 PM

My favorite Foxworthy thing was "you know you're a redneck when your house is on wheels and your car's up on blocks". At least it is the only one that I can remember. Anybody got any more?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 11:52 AM

Q:     How can you tell if you've offended a redneck?

A:     The Tire iron upside yo' had oughts to be yer first clue!

Chris Rock's humor is liberally sprinkled with "The 'N' Word", Jeff Foxworthy's main claim to fame is his collection of "You know your a redneck if..." jokes. Chis Rock is black, Jeff Foxworthy is white. Actually, C.R. is more a shade of "Burnt Umber", and J.F. is "Desert Tan", speaking in colors of paint I've used in the past.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: JJ
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 09:21 AM

I recall a "proud to display the national colors" country song of 1975 with a chorus that went something like:

With my red neck
White socks and
Blue Ribbon beer...

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Cluin
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 03:46 AM

Then you got that prime gig as Ronald McDonald?

;D

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: jimmyt
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 10:22 AM

Good piont, Cluin. Me for one! I was the token white guy with a giant red afro playing trumpet in an all black soul band for a while! A beautiful sight I was ! (sorry, can you say black and afro?) grin

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 12:58 AM

Naw. Afro-American went out of favour when it came to mean an American sporting an afro. There were too damn many honkies wearing them in the 70s.




ooops.. forgot the smiley.

;)

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: jimmyt
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:05 PM

Case in point, porky, what damn difference does it make? Afro-Aerican was a very acceptable term for many years...all the sudde it wasn't PC? I suggest this is exactly the type PCstuff that turn most people away from the whole concept. Recently I mentioned the word oriental in referring to A Korean friend in our area, and my daughter-in-law told me it is no longer PC to say oriental. (I guess this is now somehow a derogatory term)hould say Asian. Well that sure doesn't differentiate Turkish people, Israelis, Indians Koreans, Japanese etc. Seems like by making the trm more " all encompassing" it is more tasteful? I don't get it.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Porky the Buffet Slayer
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 09:52 PM

A recent Larry Sanders show? A new Larry Sanders show hasn't been produced in almost five years. BTW Dick, the correct terminology is "African American," not "Afro-American."

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 02:19 PM

I may lead a sheltered life, but the most prevalent use of the word nigger that I've heard over the past few years has been by Afro-American comedians. And the most recent switch in meaning is when the black comic says to the white comic " You my nigger! " implying spiritual kinship, I suppose. On a recent Larry Sanders TV show, Mr. Sanders (White) replied to the black comedian, "You my Caucasian"

and I guess Redneck is better than the related "Shitkicker"

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: T-Mac
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 12:17 PM

Having been without power for six days, I haven't seen this thread, but being from the South I can't restrain myself from posting.

A black guy who was very mad at me once called me a redneck interspersed with a long line of other attention grabbers and I'm pretty sure he wasn't being complimentary at the time. I had a similar experience growing up in Florida in the 60's when a black classmate called me a cracker. Between the two, I took more offense at the time of being called a cracker than I did a redneck. I'm guessing the big difference was that the two events happened about 35 years apart. Interestingly, my sister and I now take great pride in considering ourselves Florida Crackers, as do many native Floridians (ok, cut me some slack, and don't argue the "native" definition).

So I guess all the comments about it being a matter of perspective are right.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: BusbitterfraeScotland
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 08:37 PM

However I try my best to understand those who do, I sometimes have to grit my teeth and bite my tongue.
I'm sorry if I have upset anyone on this thread but that's just the person I am.

As I say we are all diffferent.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: BusbitterfraeScotland
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 08:31 PM

I just can't any form of Politcal correctness.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Redbeard
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 07:33 PM

that is "into a rrrrr......."

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Redbeard
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 06:45 PM

....so I was sitting in my outhouse one frosty morning when it was about 5 degrees out, thinking about how I was going to get to work that day. My truck was still up on blocks because the front rotors hadn't arrived yet from special order and my car was frozen in a snowbank. Outside of Ithaca, NY, 1978 or so. Brand new septic system last year, an engineering marvel of a sandfilter that was bigger than my slightly tilted house. Then the hand dug well had run dry and I had to get my shovel, hammer, and some nails and make good use of the scrap lumber pile out behind the deserted chicken coop. So here I was...sitting and thinking as they say...when all of a sudden for the first time in my life I wondered, "Could I possibly be turning in a..."

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: jimmyt
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:17 PM

How about Gross Uninformed Egomaniac Simpering Trashmouth?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:20 PM

White Anglo-Saxon Pissants?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Amos
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:37 AM

WASS, meaning White Anglo-Saxon Scientologist??? LOL!! This could grow into quite a list -- WAS Buddhists, Zarathustrians, Mystics, Agnostics, Janists.... talk about drawing up class lines!! :>)


A

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:10 AM

Doesn't address Curmudgeon's point about redundance--I don't get why an oxymoron unless tautology was meant--ASP is not redundant, nor ASC, nor ASS, for L. Ron Hubbard.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,cooter
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:37 PM

Twelve Days of Redneck Christmas

On the first day of Christmas,
My true love gave to me:

Parts for my '60 GTO

On the second day of Xmas etc.
Two plush dice
Three fishin' lures
Four wheel spinners
Five table dancers
Six wheel spinners
Seven resslin' tickets
Eight cases Lone Star
Nine blue heelers
Ten tins Copenhagen
Eleven packs of Red Man
Twelve days in Branson

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:01 PM

REDNECK GIRL
(Bellamy Brothers)

Key of A
Intro: AAAADDAAAAAADEED (or improvise)
(A)Redneck girl likes to (D)cruise in Daddy's (E)pickup truck (A D F#m E
And a red(A)neck girl plays er (D)hard when she's (E)down on her (A)luck(D) F#m E)
(F#m)Living for a Friday after(D)noon   E
(F#m)She's gonna show one ol' boy that (D)we can (E)move
And I (A)pray that someday I will (D)find me a (E)redneck (A)girl(D) F#M E

(A)Redneck girl likes to stay out (E)all night (A)long(D) F#M E
            A                              D            E   A D
(F#m) She (E)makes sweet rock n' roll while she listens to the country songs
(F#m)She's a waitin' for that moment of surren(D)der (E)
(F#m) Her hands are calloused but her (D) heart is (E)tender

And I (A)pray that someday I will (D)find me a (E)redneck (A)girl(D) F#m E
Oh (A)give me a give me a(D)give me a (E)redneck (A)girl(D) F#M E
   (repeat without the oh)

Solo: F#M, D, E, F#m, D, E

Oh (A)give me a give me a (D)give me a (E)redneck (A) girl(D) F#m E (repeat without the Oh)

(A)A redneck girl got a (D)name on the (E)back of her (A)belt(D) F#M E
She's got a (A)kiss on her lips for her (D)man and (E)no one (A)else(D) F#m E
(F#M)A coyote's howling out on the (D)prairie E
(F#m)First comes love (D)then comes (E)marriage

And I (A)pray that someday I will (D)find me a (E)redneck (A)girl(D) F#m E
Yeah (A)give ma a give me a(D)give me a (E)redneck (A)girl(D) F#m E
(repeat line)
(You've got to) give etc.
(repeat line)

Hope I haven't messed the chords too much, but this Bellamy Brothers song can be found on Cowpie.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: MMario
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 06:40 PM

and white NON-anglo-saxon Protestants

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 06:37 PM

WASH, where H = hate-mongerers.

WUSS, White Undecided Shit-Stirrers.

~S~

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 06:35 PM

Curmudgeon: WASP distinguishes between WASC (White Anglo-Saxon Catholics,) WASJ White Anglo-Saxon Jews. WASAT (White Anglo-Saxon Atheists,) WASAG (White Angl-Saxon Agnostics) and WASU (White Anglo-Saxon Undecideds.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: curmudgeon
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 06:01 PM

Please excuse my error; WASP is an oxymoron!

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: curmudgeon
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:48 PM

WASP is a redundancy. How many non-white Anglo Saxon Protestants do you know?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Just Amy
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:30 PM

Guest Q

I love that song!

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:52 PM

Well, calling someone a WASP is pretty divisive, but the caps are just because it's an acronym-- White Anglo Saxon Protestant. Calling them a wasp would just be making a stinging comment. *G*

~Susan

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:37 PM

I prefer the term "Farmer Tan" myself. We used to refer to anyone who spent a lot of time outside (whether they were a golf pro and the local country club) or a farmer who had a deep red tan on their face, neck and arms and were ghostly white when they took their shirt off as having a "Farmer's Tan." People with a "Trucker's Tan" had a deeply tanned left arm from resting it on the window sill, and a much lighter tan on their right arm. Except in the U.K., of course, where the right arm had the dark tan.. :-) I find the term Redneck most in country music, as a humorous, not necessarily offensive term'

It does depend in some ways, how the word is used. There was a thread on the folk music special on PBS, where a guest kept saying, You WASPS are so conceited that with your little WASP minds you can't think about anything but money. It seemed like every sentence had WASP in caps at least a couple of times. I think the level of offensiveness of a word has some relationship to the intensity of the bigotry and persecution a group has suffered. I think the term Kike is more offensive than pencil pusher.

One thing that you can be sure of is that the term redneck is not a compliment, coming out of most people's mouths. It's as deragotory as "conservative" on Mudcat or "liberal" at a Republican convention.
Labels divide. They are meant to divide. They are meant to imply an unearned (and not real) superiority over another group. In the echelon of really offensive terms, redneck would be way donw my list... just after fatso.

Farmer Tan Rasmussen

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

A honky tonk redneck song, from George Strait.

You Sure Got This Old Redneck Feeling Blue

Oh, (G)I recall some (D)barroom brawls
That I (C)got myself in(G)to [C walkdown G]
Just a (Am)stitch or two (D)got me back to(G)gether
But what's it take to (D)ease the ache
That (C)came with losing (G)you. [C walkdown G]
I (Am)thought I was tough but goodbye's too much
This (D)healin' is takin' forever.

Chorus:
Woman, you (G)sure got this old redneck feelin' (Am) blue
What's (D)goin' on inside me I ain't (C)used to goin' (G)through
This old country (Am)boy's hillbilly (Dm)heart is breakin' in two
Yeah, you (D)sure got this old redneck feelin' (G) blue.

I've never seen anyhing hit me quite like this
You know the pain and loneliness they keep hangin' with me
Oh, this goodtime Joe took quite a blow
Oh, why'd you call it quits
It'll take some time to mend my mind and put me out of my misery.

Cowpie.
Several good ones by Johnny Cash.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Amos
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:38 PM

The point was that BOTH sides of the discussion, when polarization has occurred, need to rethink how they communicate, and that the side wielding the apparent power is not likely to gain cooperation when they insist the change must happen all on the other side of the table.


Very rational observation, this!

A

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:31 PM

Communication, according to the classic Shannon-Weaver model, needs both a receiver and a sender; the message received is interferred with by static.

Static can be physical, cultural, mental, environmental, or ever prejudicial. Our minds can fill in for data missed during the transmission to static (e.g., you "know" what is meant when I write "f**k that" even though I was talking about the hay in the loft and meant "fork that"). Or we can hear what we expect to hear: the classic case was the recent one in which the word "niggard" was used and umbridge was taken by a hearer who didn't know what the word meant.

I early posted a list of words used for abuse; I can add to it (of course -- we all can). But I would no more call someone a "kike" or a "nigger" than I would call a Catholic in Northern Ireland a "tadg."

You have to be aware of the context in which you use words; they can hurt or get you hurt. There's no point in hurting anyone else unnecessarily, and getting yourself hurt without good cause is just plain stupid.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:18 PM

Yeah, really presumptuous to assume a Bishop and his staff have a damn thing to learn, especially when they ask for help with it.

It was a meeting, not a rant, and the tone in general was exploratory and prayerfully reflective, not demanding. The agenda was increased communication and resulting cooperative efforts toward an agreed-on and mutually beneficial agenda. I guess I musta really been awful, too, since they agreed that we should do it again on a regular basis and include more of the people I had been advocating for. The part that was offbase was a small but bothersome part, and it will be a great teaching lesson when I finish processing it, because they really DID want to "get it." It's OK with me if they don't get it all at once. Next time we meet we'll laugh about that part.

The point about that, in my comments above, was that criticizing how people talk when you have lost hope they will talk to you is not a real effective strategy for improving communication. The point was that BOTH sides of the discussion, when polarization has occurred, need to rethink how they communicate, and that the side wielding the apparent power is not likely to gain cooperation when they insist the change must happen all on the other side of the table.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Jim Bob
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 12:59 PM

Up the down staircase?
In many cases the up is redundant.

"I had come to teach them something." This smacks of my way or no way.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Amos
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 12:47 PM

LOL, TN!! Naww, lay and fertilize are probably independent variables (see the Condom thread). :>) I gotta say this whole "words can hurt people" thing has gotten a tad out of hand, in my humble opinion. Try holding your palm up in front of your face and intoning "The terrible power of words" into it a few times, and check it for damage. Most people aren't real good at even reading maps let alone drawing them, I guess. Here's a toast to old Korzybski. And a health and a healing to all.

A

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,TNDARLN at work
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 12:29 PM

Mebbe so, Amos, but those of us here in RedneckLand mostly don't talk about "fertilizing" [organic or otherwise] and "ministries" in the same sentence. ;o)

And "lay" ministries? Ain't that what them Catholic folks are so worked up about? Or are we talkin' egg production here?

Who raised up this discussion, anyway?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Amos
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:39 AM

THe use of words is based on agreements and inherited reference of meanings. In mainstream English, raising a crop is not accompanioed by the "up" preposition, although I can imagine that being a local variant. To raise up is sometimes applied to children, barns and other buildings, to the elevation of spirits from the dead, and to elevation in hierarchies.

Perhaps if raising crops was the image you wanted to evoke, the expression "cultivating", "nourishing", "encouraging", or even "fertilizing" lay ministries might have won more understanding.

A

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:06 AM

Tam, it has nothing to do with political correctness. It is used so that you can talk about the word and its meaning and history, without causing pain to people for whom the word itself evokes painful reactions. Some people have simply decided never to release that word from their lips, out into the air and the ears and minds of people in present time. But maybe there is a reason for the purposes of discussion that you want to refer to the word and all the associations it has. Then you would use it the same way you would say, "My little girl said the F word the other day and I was so embarrassed!" If you choose not to use the F word yourself, for whatever reason, see?

We in the US have some pretty hard divisions to live with, and communication to have across lines that still exist, though in a different form operationally than they did not so long ago. Policital correctness in institions, where communication rules are enforced, and which many of us despise, is not the same as individual sensitivity to the power words can have to hurt or heal.

Where it makes sens to look, IMO, for clarification of appropriate word usage, is to the culture that is being discussed. I ran across this in a meeting Monday, called at my request for discussing communication that had gone awry across a certain cultural barrier I straddle on a daily basis. I met with the one group (who has the power in this particular situation) to discuss why they were not being understood by the people in the other group who they were trying to deal with... and why the people they were trying to deal with keep saying, "They aren't listening, they don't HEAR us, they don't GET it."

In the middle of this meeting about communication and the importance of hearing people within their own frame of reference, and adapting to their way of saying things, one of the people present criticized me for my use of a pharase that was completely accurate to the culture I had come to advocate for. I used the term "raising up lay ministries," and they infomred me that this smacks of hierarchical thinking, as if raising some above others. We went around and around.... and they didn't HEAR nme, or even see that what he was doing WAS the problem. I was so offended that they wanted to tell me how to talk, and would not listen to what I meant by the phrase, that I shut down completley for awhile. I had come to them to teach something they had asked to know, and they pulled rank as soon as they got uncomfortable, and I was confused enough not to call them on it as it happened.

It wasn't until I was back home that I realized what I had been feeling as I used that phrase was all about raising up a crop out of the ground.

Were this individual to make the effort to bridge the gap, instead of insisting that we do all the work of adapting and building the bridge, he would not be acting politically correct. He would be THINKING, and dealing with reality, and possibly making contact with people he would actually like to be able to be himself with. Instead, the people have closed their minds andf hearts to him. It's on him to build that bridge, since he's inadvertently torn it down repeatedly.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: leprechaun
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:29 AM

Bobert's a bitter person for it. So there.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:18 AM

Tam, all part of the "politically correct" nonsense in North America. I know you haven't gone as far down that road in Scotland. All part of the Hear No Evil, See No Evil, Speak No Evil disease. If you close your eyes and ears and don't talk about it, it isn't there.

Also apparent from reading over this thread is that everyone puts his own definition to the word "redneck."

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 12:55 AM

Tam -

Sorry if you took that out of context, but that "usage" was a direct reference to immediately preceding posts. I agree that it's a clumsy, artifical, contrived, and somewhat silly way to put it; but in this case it was, perhaps, appropriate to this thread, and there are few ways to put such things that won't offend someone. (But that's the subject of this thread, isn't it?)

John

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 12:31 AM

Supposed to be a music site. Got to get some redneck songs in here.

Lyr. Add: REDNECK MOTHER
(Jerry Jeff Walker)

He was (G)born in West (C)Virginia,
His (D)wife's name's Betty Lou Thelma (G)Liz
(G)And he's not responsible for what he's (C)doing
'Cause his (D)mother made him what he (G)is.

(G)Up against the wall Redneck (C)Mother,
(D)Mother, who has raised her son so (G)well.
(G)He's thirty-four and drinking in a (C)honky tonk.
Just (D)kicking hippies asses and raising (G)hell.

Sure does like his Falstaff beer,
Likes to chase it down with that Wild Turkey liquor,
Drives a fifty-seven GMC pickup truck;
He's got a gun rack; "Goat ropers need love, too" sticker.

Well,
M is for mudflaps you give me for my pickup truck
O is for the oil I put on my hair
T is for T-bird
H is for Haggard
E is for eggs, and
R is for REDNECK.
(Audience- Put them all together, they spell mother---)

From Cowpie. Search at Redneck Mother

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 12:01 AM

Mary: Ain't nothin' redneck 'bout none of them stuff. Believe me, I know the difference 'tween rednecks and country of mountain folk (of which I hold membership...).

All the stuff you memntioned, I can relate to 'cause I'm a folkie mountain kind of man and I'll have to admit to going thru a period of my life that was purdy rednecky, but I pulled out in time. Whew!
And a btter person fir it! But I don't recommend the little experiement that I put myself though and was danged lucky, blessed or whatever to get out of it...

Meanwhile, alternative medicine, mountain crafts, mountain music and above all, spendin' time with the Lord, is where it's at!!!

Bobert

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: mg
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 11:49 PM

Just Amy and Bobert:

How about Appalachian music
Whittling in the rocking chairs
Love of family
Deep religious sense, which others might not agree with
Love of the land
Herbal knowledge and medicine
Traditional arts and crafts..

mg

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: BusbitterfraeScotland
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 11:26 PM

Why do some people say or write instead of Nigger they say or write the N word.
I know that Nigger is insulting and I never use it, however I believe in plain speech and this crap "the n word' because what is the 'n' word.
It's nose, nun, or any other word that begins with the letter 'n'.
So please don't think that I'm a racist, because I'm not. I just sick and tired of these people who say or write the 'n' word or the 'c' word or the 'b' word or the's'word.
Or else these people are the ones punctued in the air all the time.
It's just annoying.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 11:25 PM

Just Amy:

1. NASCAR
2. Trailer perks
3. Chewing tobacco
4. Home made tatoos
5. Bad hygene
6. NASCAR
7. Bumper Sticker Value Systems
8. Alabama (the bad, dang it...)
9. Cameros with bald tires
10. Big bellies

Well, those are just a few thoughts on "waht redneck have done for us" and I'm surte others folks have their own ideas...

Bopbert

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Redbeard
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 10:47 PM

When we decided to move to New Hampshire after fifteen years in good old boy central Florida I was kinda leery. After all, New England has a reputation for beautiful, quaint villages; and quiet, but hard working people. Then my brother, who after a stint in the middle colonies had returned to Massachusetts, informed me that New Hampshire had the reputation of being the "redneck state" of New England. Yeehaw, I screamed, at least I'll feel like I belong here. Anywhere you can count on hearing the sound of roaring Harleys and pickup trucks with dogs barking in the back at all hours of the day and night can't be all bad. Northern rednecks aren't so big on monster trucks and mud racing but they can sure hold their own in most taditional redneck games. More later.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Just Amy
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 07:51 PM

hey, where is the tread "What have rednecks done for us!"?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 07:49 PM

Tellya what, I hear this often, and not used as a term of respect or appreciation. If I ever DO hear it used that way, I'll come post about it right away.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,souixpyrphlye
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 07:08 PM

"Redneck" The color of one's (white)neck after laboring in fields in the hot sun.A term of derision used by Californians to insult economic refugees comming in on Highway US66 or "Okies".Used in these times by PC Sophisticates who equate tolerance with intelect.This term is used to insult ehthnic Americans (Americans by culture)Part of Entertainment Industries defamation of Southern Americans.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 06:30 PM

What does the dictionary say?
Webster's Collegiate, 1996 Tenth Edition: "1. a white member of the Southern rural laboring class. 2. a person whose behavior and opinions are similar to those attributed to rednecks- often used disparagingly."

Oxford English Dictionary, 1987 supplement: 1a. "a member of the white rural labouring class of the Southern States; one whose attitudes are considered characteristic of this class: freq. a reactionary."

First known use- 1830, by Royall, "Southern Tour." "This may be ascribed to the Red Necks, a name bestowed upon the Presbyterians at Fayetteville" (AK).
1893, Shands, "Some Peculiarities of Speech in Mississippi," p. 53, Red-neck. "A name applied by the better class of people to the poorer inhabitants of the rural districts."
1904, "Dialect Notes, II," p. 420. "An uncouth countryman. The hill-billies came from the hills, the rednecks from the swamps."
1913, J. Davis, "Life and Speeches, iii, 42. "If you red-necks or hill billies ever come to Little Rock [AK] be sure to come and see me- come to my house."

1936, Faulkner, "Absalom! Absalom!" p. 122. "Rich and poor, aristocrat and redneck."
1959, The Times Literary Supplement, 28 Aug. (London). "The ugly faces, and, under prompting or provocation, the uglier actions of a handful of red-necks, crackers, tar-heels and other poor white trash here and there in the South." [Note: North Carolina is the Tar Heel State. Some politicians would call Georgia (the Peach State) the Cracker State, but seemingly little support for this]
1960, The Spectator (London) "The old patrician families who are opposed to the graft, blackmail and demagogy by which the Boss, the tribune of the rednecks, keeps himself in power."
Many more.

In 1976, Jimmie Carter, who just was given the Nobel Peace Prize, called himself "basically a redneck."

S. Af. Rooinek. First applied to some merinos brought to the Free State and marked with a red brand on the neck. Later came to mean "another bloody English immigrant."

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 03:52 PM

My ancient experience with the term is a little different than is cited above. Maybe it's just a local thing.

From: Jeri - Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:39 AM

I've never thought of the word as inherently insulting. Just means a laborer, doesn't it?

This is a trivialization of the term, and frankly, to me, a distasteful one. It turns the term into a "class label," which is something it was not, when I learned it.

From: GUEST - Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:42 AM

In the beginning, the word "redneck" was not offensive at all, it was a description of the sunburnt necks of farmers who worked hard under the hot sun in the Southern U.S.

My own impression would be that this is an "explanation" invented to elevate a previously (sometimes) derogatory term in the name of "political correctness." Again, it is a "class slur," even if not meant in an unfriendly way. It's akin to the police departments putting "Patience - Integrity - Guts" on the side of their patrol cars and then claiming "that was what it alway meant." If this were a "true" etiology, the "in the Southern US" would be gratuitous, since anyone who works in the hot sun anywhere gets a "farmers neck."

In my experience, the earler usages of the term did not necessarily mean "Southern." In fact, my first "personal encounter" with organized groups that "proudly" called themselves "redneck" was in Wisconsin.

In Kansas, in the 1940s, where I first "learned" the term, the reference was to someone who got "red in the neck" ("hot under the collar," "all lathered up") because of any challenge to his (seldom applied to her then) "cultural bias." It did not refer to being "working class," "rural," or any other "class" distiction (even Southern). It described an attitude and behaviour, often characterised by knee-jerk response to "outsiders" - and sometimes with an implication of a tendency toward acting on the response.

In that time and place, the most common "triggers" for the red-in-the-neck response were largely racial prejudices, with "for'n religions" possibly close behind. I'm not sure that has changed much, although since that time "gays" and "hippies" (and ... make your own list here) have been added to the list.

In my own "mini-culture" of the era, the term was often used as an indication of disapproval for someone's "overreaction," but was considered "more polite" than "F***ing BIGOT." As the more polite term, it could also be used as a "friendly josh" with the right people.

One of the difficulties with most prejudice is that you can't defend it, so you have to be proud of it. Many were.

Later, 1974, at the office (in Wichita):
JiK - "Meisenheimer" (not an insult, that was his name) "You're real red-white-and-blue."
Mise (who is circulating an anti-gay rights petitition) - "Huh?" (slight grin).
JiK -"You've got your red neck, your white sheet, and your blue nose all hanging out."
Mise - "Thanks John" (walks away beaming - because he took it as a real compliment.)

Those who were proud of their prejudice found it quite easy to associate good and endearing traits to the term - 'cause after all, "good ol' boys" hang out together, so they gotta agree that what they are is "good." A "tradition" of citing the "good" has made "redneck" almost a term of endearment, in some circles, so that many of us don't feel shy about proclaiming ourselves as "rednecks" now. In 1950, a bumper sticker that said "I'm a Redneck" generally meant "I Hate *" with the "n-word" the common fill-in, but with almost any "them" an acceptable substitute. Some of them even spelled it out on the stickers - especially for the "other thems" - where people might miss their point.

Meanings change, and I don't mean to argue with the "definitions" previously given. In most of the U.S. today, redneck is not more than mildly derogatory, and may be seen as a compliment. (Trivialization of language by the Yuppies, who used to be just "Greedy Bastards.") It is something to describe the character and behaviour of individuals who meet the (high?) standard of "proper attitude," not a description of an economic, occupational, or social class as many try to use it now. That usage is mildly offensive to me - sometimes.

John

P.S.?

From: Gojira - Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:28 PM

I think that a large number of the people who are upset by the use of the term "redneck" ... are ... either folks of the liberal persuasion who want everyone to talk nicely to each other (i.e., politically correct language), or bigots who are offended when their bigotry is pointed out using derogatory and class-suggestive slurs (i.e., politically incorrect language).

(Shall we ignore the implication that anyone who isn't a liberal is a bigot, as implied by the either/or construct? :-) Just shows how easy it is to "read something in" if you really want to be offended - and no criticism, or attribution of intent, of Gojira intended.

From a favorite and respected uncle, some 50 years ago:

"The difference between liberals and conservatives is that the liberal thinks we should have laws to make everyone do what he thinks they should do while the conservative thinks we should have laws to make everyone be like him. Both attitudes ignore the priciples of individual freedom that our nation's founders believed in."
(He may actually have said "Democrat" and "Republican" -?- it was a long time ago.)

John

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

Rapaire, Well said! One addition. They not only built the country, they fought in its wars and got no respect for it. Also add the Injuns. If they had reservation status, they missed out on a lot of benefits given to others. This was particularly true in Canada, but I have also heard bitter complaints from some who fought in the American uniform as well.
I am thinking of a man from Illinois, near Shawneetown, whom I met when doing field work. He kept his war medals in his lure box along with other mementos of the war. He drove a pickup (a necessity with country people) with the Stars and Bars proudly displayed on the windshield, in memory of his great grandfather who had fought with the Rebel Cavalry and to make his political statement. We ate the free fried catfish (served with the beer) in bars near the River. I was a student working on my thesis and free food was always welcome. He went with me to a couple of hard-to-find localities up creeks tributary to the River. He had been a Hard Hat as well, having working in construction in Chicago, but couldn't stand the city or the people. He was prejudiced against Blacks, the hatred directed against city Blacks, but he was civil to those we met while we were together. He was mostly complimentary about the Bohunks he had met in construction in Chicago, they had similar views. His experiences had made him anti-government and extremely right wing. His income was from occasional part-time jobs, including bartending, and a small government pension for a leg injury. If he is still alive, I am sure that he would be proud to be known as a redneck.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: NicoleC
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:07 PM

Hmm. I grew up in a white-trash redneck southern family, and both sides of the family are WV or SW VA hillbillies pt boot. "Redneck" was a derogatory term to refer to anyone who drive faster than my Dad, drove slower than my Dad, or did anything my Dad disapproved up.

One day, when I was about 8, I asked my Dad wasn't he a redneck too? You see, Dad had a major farmer's tan and literally had the red neck.

Dad was not amused.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: jimmyt
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM

Wilco, I think this is a fascinating thread. I guess I feel somewhat different about the term as being an insult per se. I guess I think of "racial slurs" are based on things that are totally out of a person's control, ie their color, national origin or other ethnic/religion persuasion. This type classification, to me , is a little different that making a comment such as Rick Fielding mentions in his comments about Newfoundlanders referring to mainlanders. Lots of these type things occur all over the country or world in reference to people not from your geographic area. People in Maine joke about Quebecois, people in Ohio talk about hillbillys in West Virginia and Kentucky, city folk mock country bumpkins, and vice versa. I am short in stature but I think Randy Newman's song Short People is hilarious. If, however, he wrote a song about fat people of dwarfs/midgits,(little people) I think that would be offensive. By and large, this type thing may get a bit boring, but no harm is intended, and personally I have a problem classifying these things in the same vein as the N word, etc. I think any generalizations tend to be incorrect, and I can see why you would get offended by them. In other words, we live 25 miles apart, and it can be a bit grating when people generalize that all southerners are rednecks. I do, however, think that as a group of white racist bigots, if that is the group you are referring to (which I guess makes us all guilty of "classifying"people) well, these folks do not have to be the way they are. THere is no reason that just because you are born in the south of working class people that you have to espouse the intolerant racial ignorant lifestyle that most people think of when the term redneck is used. I think there are a lot of rednecks (you can plug in the term bigot if you wish) and incidently they are not indigenous to the south. I have encountered as many of them in California, upstate New York, Vermont, Canada, certainly where I grew up in Ohio, (half of my family are in this group,) and I feel sure there are a lot of these folks outside of the USA also. (Please don't write in offended by the places I singled out. I feel sure that if I thought about it, I could include almost anywhere.) I do not think it is politically incorrect to dislike bigots. On another vein, I have been referred to as a WASP, a term that I find derogatory, but I haven't noticed a lot of folks rallying to be offended at this term. I guess it is in the usage. I am in fact a white anglosaxon protestent male but if this is used as me being from a "privileged" class, well then it offends me because it is simply not true. Having said all this and whined a little myself, I still think it is in the usage rather than the term itself.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:27 AM

Hi Gareth,

"Roinek" - Redneck - term used by Boers, in either a slighly mocking or derogatory sense, to describe the British - earliest use I can find of it goes back to first Zulu War.

Cheers

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Raptor
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:09 AM

I have decided that the word CHEEZE offends me and I would ask all mudcatters never to us the word CHEESE in my presence as a mater of fact I ask that you never use the word CHEESE again in case I'm lurking and or don't have time to sign in.

And I recomend that we take up a petition banning the word CHEESE from the english language! (and FROMAGE from French).

Thank you

Raptor

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 08:15 AM

Okay, my point was that (WARNING: Insult alert! Insult alert!) the rednecks, niggers, wops, kikes, hunkies, bohunks, huns, polacks, hillbillies, farmers, russkies, cowboys, chinks, regs, mainlanders, FIBbies, dutchies, navvies, micks, greasers, tinkers, good ol' boys, and others built the USA and every other country. Without them there would be no bridges, railroads, buildings, food,freedom *or much of anything else*.

Those on the top don't build, but they look down with scorn on those who built the pedestal on which they stand.

I've been insulted by those who were experts in the art and by those who were less than creative, but I'd be proud to be numbered among those mentioned above.

Just don't call me a politician!

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 01:22 AM

Since fols are wearing their baseball caps backwards, there ain't no rednecks any more.

;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:30 AM

This is all I have to say on the subject:CLICK HERE!

Bruce

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Tweed
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:57 PM

Whut the Hail is all this now????

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:01 PM

Guest Q...

I hope you and Wilco end up in the same New York City cell.

They can fight over who will be Bubba's beauty for the night.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 10:58 PM

You're obviously from different stalk, Wilco.

From my neck of the woods "red-neck" is a gen-U-wine compliment.

You work hard, drink hard, you fuck hard

and get hard with anyone that fucks with you.

Wilco...Stay in your prissy little garden of prime-rose posseys, no one wants your pussilanemous prick parading around pretending to be a real man. A redneck carries sixteen pounds of swingin meat, drinks his corn from a Mason-jar, and can stand flat-footed and piss in the radiator of a Mac-Truck.

Sincerely
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 08:51 PM

Rednecks come in all sizes, shapes and races.
I put Redneck into Google and checked into http://countrymatch.com. : countrymatch
I put: lookin' fer a straight woman (don't like crooketty ones, cain't plow in straight furrers), 35-45 (so I mislead!), Texas (well, the center of the universe!). Come up with well over 100 possibles, both Black and White. Lynette is 230 pounds, 5'5" (she cud handle them dang mules); "Trinisweety" from Trinidad, loves to be sexy and sensus but writes potry (naw, would be settin' an' composin' like some of these here mudcats 'stead a wukkin'), "Latina from Costa Rica," loves to dance (now that's a time-waster fur shur); "Prairie Girl" (from south of Dallas, has her own little acerage)- Hmmm, might be sumthin' worth checkin' into thur---.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 07:56 PM

Well there ya go. Offense is in the ear of the beholder, isn't it? And if you're ready for offense, and don't agree with my maxim, well, stick it in your ear and all will be well!


A

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: khandu
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 07:09 PM

I am a Redneck and I am damned proud of it!

khandu

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 07:08 PM

Redneck is such an antiquated word now anyway. I remember when the "Northern" version of the original meaning word was "Hardhat"; namely working-class conservative Archie Bunker-type that was very vocal about whom they can't stand.

This is where the "Redneck" & 'Hardhat" sub-culture piss in the same pot as a very specific tribal mentality is expressed at this point and is even more insulting , in and of itself , to have to listen to.
Try listening to the epithets casually tossed around by either "type" on a construction job as I have and then have to deal with another trait of both that has been conviniently "left out" of this dialogue ; namely the palpable atmosphere of physical threat
to anyone who "don't fit in ". Basically the old and familiar goon-squad bullying. It's unfortunate when you also know guns and drugs often go with the territory and it only takes one with that mean streak to go off even without being alloyed with just plain folks alcohol.

So ,before one gets all bent outta shape over being so hyper-sensitive to feigning a sense of "insult" by ther mere mention of the word "redneck" ( a word I've forgotten to use until now ) think about the insults expressed in "redneck" culture that is just tolerated just 'cuz that's "our culture".
Are there rednecks with hearts of gold. Ofcourse there are, but to ignore the darker side of the redneck/hardhat culture as if it's all alright, well that's an insult to the knowledge of my experiencece.

Sauce fo' da goose be sauce fo' da gander.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: KarlMarx
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 06:12 PM

How about this: if Jesus Christ were to be walking the earth today, He would be telling parables, just as He did 2000 years ago. So, a middle-class woman was driving her SUV to her son's soccer practice, when she's car-jacked, thrown out of the vehicle, injured badly, and left for dead. Now, along drives a country club Republican, in a Lincoln Continental, who sees the poor injured woman lying bleeding in the road, but assuming her to be a homeless bag lady, keeps driving on by. Soon after, a liberal, driving a VW Bug, passes by, but is too busy to stop to help this poor heap of broken humanity, because he's on his way to a Hillary Clinton rally. Finally, a redneck, in his ole' Chevy pick-up truck with the gun rack and Confederate flag, pulls up to the scene. He gets out, and helps the poor victim into his truck - after he pushes the hound dog over - and then proceeds to the emergency room, where the woman, who lost her insurance card, has to wait for admittance (hey, it's the thought that counts). Now, as Jesus would put the question to us: who was the more righteous - the Republican, the liberal, or the redneck? "Why, Master, the redneck," you would say. To which Jesus would respond, "then you, too, go and be like that redneck . . ."

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 05:38 PM

Believing a word is always wrong in any circumstance saves a person having to try to understand what the other guy meant by it.

There are plenty of words that don't bother me because I don't see them as derogatory, but they might bother others. The 'N' word makes me cringe, no matter who's saying it but I'll still try to figure out whether someone meant to be nasty or not. I don't suppose I'd refer to anyone as 'queer' or 'redneck' unless I knew for sure they'd understand I was doing a bit of respectful piss-taking. Good friends can get away with that stuff but not strangers or polite acquaintances.

Words only exist only to represent ideas, and it's those ideas that must be understood, not the words.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: mg
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 04:36 PM

I have no doubt that in many of the posts here where the term is used, it is not used in a respectful way, and intolerance runs both ways, all ways. It is hard to be extremely critical of people you consider to be intolerant and be tolerant yourself. Although there are some things no one should tolerate..but a perceived lack of education, sophistication, etc. should not be the basis for ridicule...and I think people jump to conclusions about other things too but it is too complicated to explain.

mg

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 04:26 PM

L'ard bloody Jezus, so there were these two "Reg guys" from Northern Ontario eh? Anyhoo, the one Reg says to the other Reg, "Geez, NOW I know why we didn't catch any ducks last week, eh?"

"Why's that" says the other Reg?

"We weren't throwin' the dog high enuff, eh?"

"Well maybe", says the one Reg, "but we done OK when we went Ice fishin' the next day, eh?"

"Darn right....we got us a couple of months supply for the beer"!
*************************************************************
Seriously, it's pretty difficult NOT to insult someone who's lookin' to be insulted. Be yourself....if someone asks you not to use a word around them...don't use it.

The first time I played in Newfoundland, I became aware of "Mainlander" jokes. They're predicated on the assumption that a "mainlander" might have a college education but has no 'common sense'.

On the other hand, while 'mainlander' and 'Reg' are in common use and never struck me as insulting (in a hurtful way), some people still use the word "Squaw", when talking about a Native woman, and wouldn't think twice about calling a Native guy "Chief". I wouldn't. Hmmm,I think I'm talking myself out of my original point of view.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Cooter
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 04:12 PM

Billy Bob, ya ever stood on one of them rubber mats made all over with nice big titties? Git yo' gal to buy you one fer Christmas.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:49 PM

How about "rednose" for me and Rudolph?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:37 PM

redneck?

Baaah...

I prefer using the term "Meshback" on 'those people'....

It's MORE insulting, and fewer people use it...

:-)

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:36 PM

Whine Alert!

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: mack/misophist
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:12 PM

It was a Chinese friend of mine who convinced me that a term is perjorative if the group it's aimed at takes it as perjorative. I didn't think "Chinaman" was offensive, just illiterate. But if a Chinese (actually, it has to be most Chinese) is offended, then what can it be but offensive. Here we have a case where most of the people who can wear the 'redneck' label are NOT offended by it. I'm not. David Allen Coe isn't. So why don't we sweep this PC bullshit under the rug until a sea of rednecks rises up to oppose the usage? And by opposing, gets a new label.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Just Amy
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:06 PM

Is not.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:49 PM

Well danged, Wilco. Iz' feeling real corn-fused now. See, I think "moron" as more inflamatory than "redneck". And also less descriptive. Yeah, I probably have refered to Bush, Junior as a "redneck" but I know I have used the term to describe many of the folks in Congress because the term, to me, fits. These folks, by inlarge, are white folks who rather tahn appeal to the intellect of the American votoer, instead appeal to the emotions of the voters.

Well, if Ive learned one thing about rednecks is that if keep information on an emotional basis, especially if the information is spiced with bigotry, then all is well. But don't try to get these folks to discuss much of anything, other than NASCAR, in depth becuase if it won't fit on a bumper sticker, it most likely won't fit in their minds either.


Now if this makes anyone madder than usual at this ol' hillbilly, I'm sorry. But having lived in South Richmond, Va. for many years and the last 18 years living with hillbillies, Iz here to say that there are lot of ignorant, racist, intolerant white people in America and a few too many of 'em in high places.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:49 PM

I'm a redneck - never thought it was much of anything. And it certainly is not in the same vein as racial slurs.

Jus' anuder Rednek -

Steve

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Burke
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:25 PM

The first time I ever heard the word Redneck it was used in an insulting way. Most of the time I've heard it, it was as an insult.

Ron Thomason uses Redneck to describe himself, but the context has always sounded to me like deliberately using the insulting term to take the sting out. A bit like the "White Trash" cookbook.

One can also buy t-shirts in the Gulf Shores, Alabama-Pensacola, Florida area that call it the Red Neck Riveria. Again, it's always hit me as a deliberate use of an insult, why else that description?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

All during the 19th century, and up to WW1 and later, Blacks outside of the more affluent, well-educated groups referred to themselves as "niggers" in their songs and stories. It is impossible to know Black oral traditions without seeing and using the word constantly.
Much the same is true of Redneck, where, as Gojira says, the narrow-minded elite, trying to rewrite history in their own image, have attempted to turn the word into an insult.

In the collection of Black memorabilia by Blacks- all of the old postcards, dolls, salt and pepper shakers, lamps, etc. which have become intensively sought for and thus very expensive- and in the revival of the word "nigger" by in your face young Blacks in their rap music and conversation- there may be the seeds of acceptance of the past and hope that history will not be hobbled by the excessive "correctness" of zealots.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:06 PM

GUEST, Canada's such a big place that for simplicity I consider everyone between Winnipeg and the Atlantic Ocean an 'easterner', and everyone between Winnipeg and the Pacific Ocean a 'westerner'. Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes.

As to being "beyond the pale", the first person that sprang to mind was Clint Eastwood. Poor guy even missed out on being Canadian! :-)

daylia

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: KarlMarx
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:52 PM

Good question, Rapaire. I remember, when I was a college-educated elitist, I was taking a seminar in graduate school, where we looked at racial stereotypes in American art, literature and music. When it came time to discuss Huckleberry Finn and Uncle Tom's Cabin, the professor, God bless him, had the hardest time uttering aloud the character's name that you mentioned: Nigger Jim. Every time he went to say the name, he lowered his voice, kinda like when you walk past a cemetery at night - you run fast! I will admit, that if asked to sing such a coonjine song, that the word would stick in my throat, but, who knows . . .
   There was an interesting series of articles in the National Council on the Arts publication a little while ago. There was, recently, a traveling exhibition of art and critical literature associated with the 1885 publication of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. One article discussed the furor that arose among white people at the time over the "vulgar and inappropriate language of the characters." Huck's terrible misuse of the English tongue - particularly all those "ain'ts" and "niggers" - offended the white Northern elites who were, understandably, trying to help the former slaves become integrated into American life in the post Civil War years. Many of those elites, who were educators as well, were thus also upset with the slang that Twain used to flesh out the language of an adolescent boy living along the Mississippi River in ante-bellum Missouri. There were a number of organizations formed, to ban Twain's novel from public libraries. Later on, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was banned from schools and libraries - North and South alike - because many saw the relationship between Jim and Huck as inappropriate, both along racial lines, as well as the subtle homoerotic themes (or so the censors thought) that existed between the protagonists. Yes, Nigger Jim is one of the strongest characters ever created in American literature. And over the criticism of the use of earthy, vulgar, inappropriate, tasteless language in song and printed word, Mark Twain would take a puff on his cigar (Cuban, of course), and tell the critics to go . . .

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:48 PM

Well, it wasn't a dirty word when Woody Guthrie used it in tribute to the striking miners who fought back after the Ludlow Massacre in 1914:

...The state soldiers jumped us in a wire fence corner
They did not know that we had these guns,
And the red neck miners mowed down them troopers -
You should have seen those poor boys run

And here's a page I found about what actually happened that time.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Reynolds
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:35 PM

Here's a little ditty by Texas's own Ray Wylie Hubbard. It's also sung by Jerry Jeff Walker.

Up Against the Wall Redneck Mother (Ray Wylie Hubbard)

He was born in West Virginia,
His wife's name's Betty Lou Thelma Liz
And he's not responsible for what he's doing
Cause his mother made him what he is.

And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother,
Mother, who has raised her son so well.
He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk.
Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

Sure does like his Falstaff beer,
Likes to chase it down with that Wild Turkey liquor;
Drives a fifty-seven GMC pickup truck;
He's got a gun rack; "Goat ropers need love, too" sticker

And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother,
Mother, who has raised her son so well.
He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk.
Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

Well,
M is for the mudflaps you give me for my pickup truck
O is for the Oil I put on my hair
T is for T-bird
H is for Haggard
E is for eggs, and
R is for REDNECK.

Up against the wall Redneck Mother,
Mother, who has raised her son so well.
He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk.
Kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

He's up against the wall Redneck Mother,
Mother, who has raised her son so well.
He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk.
Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:04 PM

A redneck was a laborer, someone who "built this country with [his] shoulders and his back/The man who built the power dams and oiled all the cars." And it's not usually the college-educated, urban folk who join the military as enlisted personnel, either, but the children of laborers, farmers, blacks, hispanics, and so on.

Redneck shouldn't be a brand of infamy, but it has been made one by the elitist thinking of some urbanites. It's like calling someone a "dumb farmer" -- the person doing the name-calling couldn't do the work, but feels superior to those that can.

There's another thread around about coonjine songs. "Nigger" is used there -- would you sing it? Especially if you are white? In public? Yet one of the strongest characters in literature is known only as "Nigger Jim"....

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Gareth
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:04 PM

Roinek ???? (Taal)

Gareth

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:57 PM

Welcome to Rednecks only. Redneck Listen to their "Dueling Banjos." Don't look at the pics. This is the real thang!

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:55 PM

it has indicated 'poor, Southern, rural' for a long time, but it sure has gotten an extra boost as NOT a good thing since that comedian began making his living on it....like this ..http://www.fortogden.com/foredneck.html

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:34 PM

Gee, is someone from Ontario and easterner..I guess east of Ontario is beyond the pale.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: KarlMarx
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:28 PM

Like all words, it's how it's used. I worry more about people with guns, than people with tongues . . .
   As I mentioned before, my dad was a "redneck," with the requisite sun-burned face, neck and arms. But he was a very tolerant man. But I have to disagree with Raptor: rightly or wrongly, the N-word has been used in fun, by black folks towards each other. My dad was a foreman of a construction crew (you can imagine what the language was like there), and one black guy called the other the "dreaded word." My dad asked him what was up with that - specifically, it was OK for him to say that to another black person, but a similar use of the word by a white person (what is a white person, anyways?) would have brought down the wrath of God. The man told my father that it's OK for black people to use it amongst each other, but not for whites to use it in referring to blacks.
   I think that a large number of the people who are upset by the use of the term "redneck" (present company excepted) are white people - either folks of the liberal persuasion who want everyone to talk nicely to each other (i.e., politically correct language), or bigots who are offended when their bigotry is pointed out using derogatory and class-suggestive slurs (i.e., politically incorrect language). My fantasy is to see Harry Bellafonte, after the big flap over his racial comments concerning fellow African American Colin Powell, lecture all us white folks on the tasteful and proper terms in describing Caucasian America and its denizens. We white people should never refer to each other as poor white trash, inbred, honky, sheet, whitey, cracker, mud-sill, stump-jumper, ridge-runner, swamp-angel, wigger, or, God forbid - redneck.
   To be honest, when I was in a long term relationship with another man, we would often times call each other "fag," or "queer." Now, I would've looked askance at a homophobic bigot if he/she called us that, but it was OK - as the black guy similarly told my father once about racial slurs - for me and my partner to use homophobic language towards each other mutually and in fun (I wasn't gay, but my boyfriend was . . .)
   In fact, some straight people overheard us once, and lectured us on how the words "fag" and "queer" are bad words, and should never be used. I thanked them for "enlightening" us . . .

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:55 AM

Last year I spent a few months on beautiful Vancouver Island in a little fishing village. I'm from Ontario, so I was aware that plenty of people on the west coast don't care much for Easterners. I was ready to take it in stride ...

The first day I was walking on the beach, I happened by an elderly couple gathering seaweed for their garden. We chatted a little, and when I answered their question "Where are you from?", the old man looked at me and grumbled "Ahhhh ... everyone from Ontario is a REDNECK!"

Now I could have been insulted, but as he said it I couldn't take my eyes off HIS neck. It was wrinkled and flabby and so red - purple really - he looked like a rooster! This really tickled my funny-bone, and I walked away laughing, pleasantly wishing them a good day.

Guess it takes one to know one, eh?

daylia

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Matt_R
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:45 AM

Sorry about that, the GUEST post was me.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:43 AM

I agree with MMario Its not the word its the way its used! the N word was used to refer to one race in paticular, Redneck can be used in fun to describe anyone and was used in fun by selfproclaimed redneck comedian Jeff Foxworthey!

The N word was never used in fun!

If you try hard enough you can be offended by anything, but thats usualy people without a sense of humor!

In these P.C. times the first casualty is Sense of humor!

Raptor

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:42 AM

In the beginning, the word "redneck" was not offensive at all, it was a description of the sunburnt necks of farmers who worked hard under the hot sun in the Southern U.S. Writers like Lewis Grizzard took pride in the word "redneck" as a metaphor for the hard, honest living that embodied the lives of past relatives, as well as those who still continue to work in such conditions. Unfortunately, various "comedians" and pop culture have transformed the word into a stereotype of slow-witted, gun-toting, racist Southerners. Despite the negative connotations it has today, I still would not put it on the same lever as a racial slur.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:39 AM

I've never thought of the word as inherently insulting. Just means a laborer, doesn't it? It's come to mean something else because people spit it out as an epithet and others choose to react as if it were one. The folks using the word aren't the problem - it's the ones who buy into and promote the nastier meaning.

I'm aware that some white supremicists have used Celtic designs. Now, I could stop wearing those designs on my T-shirts because I don't want to be identified with white supremecists, or I could just keep wearing them and re-inforce the meaning they have for me. Let those who are offended try to tell me why they think I wear the designs so I can explain - not that there's any guarantee people who are that easily offended will listen.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: MMario
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:36 AM

it has *become* poor taste due to the way it has been used. And thus is in a different class of words then those which were derogatory to begin with. (and even some of *those* the demeaning parts are due to usage rather then inherent quality or derivation of the word).

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wilco
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:30 AM

It's in very poor taste. That's like trying to justify the use of words like nigger or kike.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: MMario
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM

words are not insulting - the way they are used is insulting.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:24 AM

It is only insulting when directed at someone in paticular!

To call someone, or a group of people redneck is wrong, like the word Moron or Idiot. But it is not so bad for describing a behavior or a president!

Raptor

Subject: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wilco
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:15 AM

I'm always surprised to see or hear this word from people who would appear to be otherwise considerate of others.