 sj |
||
|
||
You're not a guitar picker unless...
|
|
|
Subject: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: khandu Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:35 PM ...unless you can play "Wildwood Flower"! That's what I was told by one of Dad's friends when I was 14, just learning to play guitar. As I became more adept with the instrument (and could play "Wildwood Flower"), other tunes would crop up in the same sentence, but said by different people; "You ain't no guitar player unless you can play "Classical Gas"... Amazingly, I discovered that it was not required that I play all of "Classical Gas"! If I just managed to play the first few bars, then I would hear, "That khandu, he's a guitar pickin' son-of-a-gun!" Later, when I played in a honky-tonk band, "The House of the Risin' Sun" determined whether I was a "picker". (Incidentally, when the bands I was in played in the honky-tonks, even in places we had never played before, someone would always, without fail, shout, "Can you play "Polk Salad Annie" and "Wipe Out"!) "Sultans of Swing" later became a "standard" by which one was determined to be a picker. Anyone else have similar "standards" by which they were measured? khandu |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Murray MacLeod Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:38 PM In Britain, if you can't play "Anji" you can't play guitar Murray |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:47 PM In bluegrass flat-pickin' land (a country in which I once lived, but have since happily emigrated) it's "Red-Haired Boy" and "Salt Creek". Bruce |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: harpmaker Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:52 PM If your trying---your playing.period. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: CraigS Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:53 PM I had a room-mate at college who tried to get me riled by saying "when you can play "Anji" you can play guitar". I spent a whole term on it. In desperation, a friend lent me the music, which was "wrong" for the version I had on record, and in C#m because Davy Graham played it with a capo on the fourth fret. Two days after my room-mate and I went off on industrial assignments (not to see each other for six months), I got the hang of the dang thing! Then again - I can do Anji, Wildwood Flower and Classical Gas at the drop of a hat these days, and quite a lot of other things, but two tunes that I've always found extremely hard are "Stagefright" by Dave Evans and "Singing in the Country" by Rick Schoenberg. It's not like trying to do a Doc Watson impersonation, where you can hear what's needed but just can't play it right now. With those two tunes there's so much going on, my tiny mind just can't take it in! |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: harpmaker Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:55 PM well, err not a period, you understand, but you know what I mean. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Mark Clark Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:11 PM Well, in the spirit of Khandu's thread, I'd guess “Steel Guitar Rag” is one of those tunes, “Under the Double Eagle” is another one. I've imbibed my way through quite a few honky-tonk bands over the years but I don't remember any of them playing “The House of the Risin' Sun,” “Polk Salad Annie,” “Wipe Out” or “Sultans of Swing.” Those tunes were more often played by pop and rock bands. I can't even imagine a honky-tonk audience requesting those. We must've been in different honky-tonks. - Mark |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Mark Clark Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:25 PM But now I have a serious confession to make. I would say don't laugh but I don't expect it would do any good. My tastes are, I would say, eclectic—I listen to classical, jazz, folk, blues, bluegrass, I've never heard of let alone heard: “Anji,” “Stagefright,” Dave Evans, “Singing in the Country,” or Rick Schoenberg. I'm guessing it's a generational thing. - Mark |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: khandu Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:29 PM Mark, "Sultans..." was not one of the requested at the tonks. "Polk Salad" was and "Wipe Out". "Wipe..." was so the tonkers could see if our drummer was up to snuff. Our tonks were comprised of the "oldtimers" who loved the old country songs, and the younger "good ole boys" who liked the country and "swamp" rock. All of them liked "...Risin' Sun" "Under the Double Eagle" was also one of the "standards" that filled in the blank of the "You're not a guitar picker" sentence. There were many others throughout the years. I found it amusing that most who said those things were not musicians themselves! k |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: khandu Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:30 PM Mark, I ain't heard of'em either! k |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: CraigS Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:55 PM Anji is an instrumental written by Davy Graham, a great English guitarist with rather unfortunate habits, which he recorded on an EP called 3/4AD in the 60s. There is a version on one of the Simon and Garfunkel albums, and it was Bert Jansch's favourite last tune when he played live. Dave Evans is a guitar player and luthier from Bristol who lives in Belgium, and is famous for very tricky instrumentals. Go to Amazon and search fingerpicking, and something will come up with Dave Evans on it. Rick Schoenberg is one of the mightiest fingerpickers in the USA. So is Dave Laibman. If you want something even more stimulating, try to find a tune called Under the Rubber Eagle (hint: that's a translation of the German slang for Kentucky Fried Chicken). |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Leadfingers Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:59 PM In the seventies every kid who thought he could play guitar in a folk club did some kind of version of Angie.Davy Graham has a lot to answere for. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Mark Clark Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:29 PM I'm starting to get the picture. I've always figured there were two truly great fingerpickers. One was Merle Travis and the other one wasn't. Now a lot of guys played using their fingers but I've never thought of them as “fingerpickers;” Charlie Byrd comes to mind. Look as though I'd better broaden my scope some. Thanks. - Mark |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: CraigS Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:32 PM You sod, Terry, you said you couldn't remember me in the 70s! |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Les B. Date: 11 Dec 02 - 10:05 PM I figure you're not a guitar picker unless you've dropped your flatpick in the soundhole about a dozen times ! |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Al Date: 12 Dec 02 - 12:48 AM ...you know all the banjo jokes. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: open mike Date: 12 Dec 02 - 01:47 AM not a pickin' thing but i remember one band member sayin' that their most requested song in th 70's was Proud Mary--some have said that it is about marijuana "proud mary keeps on burnin'"...or is it turnin? |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: songs2play Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:42 AM Freight Train in Standard or Open D tuning. On any guitar At anytime of the day In any weather and follow on with Oh Babe it ain't no lie Still trying |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: M.Ted Date: 12 Dec 02 - 03:13 AM "Stairway to Heaven", "Deep River Blues", and "Embryonic Journey" all have been must play tunes in living memory--When I've wanted to amaze the unwashed however, nothing bewilders them like my chord melody version of "Girl from Ipanema" with bits of "Sunshine of Your Love" used as fills-- |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: mooman Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:00 AM This is a good thread. It was only when I realised that you don't HAVE to play these elevated "standards of comparison" note-for-note like the originals (this is not to denigrate them in any way) or even at all that I began to make serious progress as a guitarist and to develop my own style of playing. I'm therefore with Harpmaker on this one. Best regards, moo |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: breezy Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:55 AM you use picks. Whose with speedpicks these days? Anji is not a tune but a basic chord progression, but popular with the masses.= discuss |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: alanabit Date: 12 Dec 02 - 09:17 AM Could say the same about Classical Gas, couldn't you? It's basically just a simple series of arpeggios in A minor. (I still can't play it very well though!) |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Peter T. Date: 12 Dec 02 - 09:24 AM Perhaps we should preface every British folk scene reference with BF and American folk scene reference with AF, so as people will not get confused. (This is a joke). I don't think anyone in North America had any interest in "Angie" (except Paul Simon), and it never became a standard. I presume no one in the British scene ever cared tuppence for "Classical Gas" -- it was big in North America because it appeared on TV!!!!! yours, Peter T. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Fred Miller Date: 12 Dec 02 - 09:43 AM I don't hardly know any of them tunes. Wildwood flower, and rising sun I could work out in a few minutes, but don't play them. I do know the solo from sultans of swing. I remember the opposite sort of proposition--if you can play, say, stairway to heaven you can play anything. Well, no I can't. My current benchmark piece is Debussy's Girl with flaxen hair, which I can play, but not well. There should be a name for these things that signify expertise without really demonstrating it: I can't play basketball but I can twirl the ball as if I can. I can't remember how to play poker, but I can still cut the deck one-handed, two different ways--those sorts of things. Proud Mary is an example of another category of thing--those which become expressions that can plug back into themselves, like an extension cord symbol of eternity. Some people refer to over-done tunes as "Proud Marys" so that Proud Mary can be called "a Proud Mary." If you get on a bike after years, don't worry, it's just like riding a bicycle. My wife worries about taking baths during storms, but I figure the odds are like being struck by lightening. Etc. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Willie-O Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:03 AM When I was getting my calluses, I'd say the standard was "Blackbird". Wildwood Flower would be one, in the country crowd. Never heard of "Anji". Fred, There is a name for things that signify expertise without demonstrating it. SHOWMANSHIP. Willie-O |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Mountain Dog Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:27 AM Of those mentioned so far, I've started to get the hang - at last - of Wildwood Flower, but I hold out a few others as personal goals before I'll call myself a guitar picker: Blind Rev. Gary Davis' "Samson and Delilah", Jorma K's "Water Song" from Hot Tuna's "Burgers" album and Ry Cooder's instrumental version of "I Think It's Gonna Work Out Fine" from his "Bop Til You Drop" LP. Practice, practice, practice! |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Fred Miller Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:47 AM Willie-o, Blackbird is still a neat tune to check a guitar's intonation. And the word for that is "aneattunetocheckaguitarsintonation". It's my son's favorite song, and I still do it. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: M.Ted Date: 12 Dec 02 - 11:45 AM Anji was, once upon a time, pre-blackbird and even, I think, pre-embryonic journey, a guitar wannabee show-off tune in the US--I remember having heard many versions of it on open mike nights of long, long ago-- |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Don Firth Date: 12 Dec 02 - 12:04 PM Anything that Justa Picker plays if you can play it as well as he does. And/or Recuerdos de la Alhambra by Francisco Tarrega, Variations on a Theme from the Magic Flute by Mozart by Fernando Sor, Etude No. 5 in Em by Hector Villa Lobos, Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring by J. S. Bach (arranged for guitar by Christopher Parkening), a couple of others. . . . Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Amos Date: 12 Dec 02 - 12:07 PM Fred: In logic studies they call those things self-referential loops. The definitive study on them is part of Godel, Escher, Bach, a weighty intellectual tome from the 70's that I even waded through one time. THe classic examples are things like "This sentence is not true." And the piece of paper that keeps Republicans occupied forever because it says "Answer on other side" on both sides. :>) Th showmanship items are sometimes called "bits", "gimmicks" or "pieces of business" in thespian circles. A |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Rick Fielding Date: 12 Dec 02 - 12:11 PM Yep, here in Toronto "Anji" was the big number, followed closely by "Needle and the Damage Done." Even the folks who thought Neil Young was the worst lyricist on the planet would play that sucker. My mother had the most interesting challenge for me though. When I had learned "Freight Train"....she said, "That's fine, but can you play it in every key"? I did.....but I still don't think she thought much of "folk guitar". Barney Kessel and Tal Farlow were HER faves. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: C-flat Date: 12 Dec 02 - 12:53 PM Angie/Anji? was cetainly one of the first "fingerstyle" tunes I learnt to play but it took me a long time to get it right. I also felt obliged to learn "Blackbird" and "Classical Gas" but only recently decided to learn past the opening bars of "Classical Gas". I remember these songs as being guitar playing benchmarks by which one was measured, but rarely heard anyone actually perform the whole song. The only time I ever heard them was in the acoustic section of the local guitar shops, played by other young wannabees. A short walk into the Solid body section and you would be met with a mixture of "Smoke on the Water" and "Born to be Wild". A few years ago everybody was playing "Tears in Heaven" and "More than Words". It must be torture to work in a guitar shop! |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: alanabit Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:22 PM I always spend the first hour of guitar practice doing reading exercises, scales and a couple of classical pieces followed by "Classical Gas". I spent a long time trying to learn Villa-Lobos "Choros No 7". I can play it but not well on steel strings. I felt I was improving when I got up to playing it at any tempo at all. Depressing really. Any talented young sixteen year old would knock it off in weeks! There's lots of players like me out there. We will never become good, but we might get better. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Cluin Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:26 PM Yep, "Wildwood Flower" was an early goal, because I first heard my Dad plunk his way through it. I still prefer it in "C", though now I capo 2nd fret and go into "Double Eagle" and then into "Columbus Stockade Blues". Back in the mid-70s teenage campfire days you could get attention with "Heart of Gold" (not strictly a picking tune, nor very difficult either) but "Stairway to Heaven" got you free beers and an introduction to their sisters. That was way back before I took the vow. No, not that vow. The "I promise never to play that tune again" vow. It was easy. A pothead university roommate had only one cassette he played over and over... and that was the one. Just the sound of Robert Plant's vocals has about the same effect on me as smelling tequila now. Both make me ill. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: bill\sables Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:45 PM Way back around 1960 I was offered a place in a rock and roll group and the audition tune was Hava Nagila which I, like everyone else, played well enough. However,I got the job by playing that tune with the guitar behind my neck. Up to a few years ago I could still do it but now it seems my arms won't stretch that far. Cheers Bill |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Walking Eagle Date: 12 Dec 02 - 08:06 PM Unless you've sprung your pick into your guitar sound hole at least 5 times. Until the rattle snake rattles you put in your guitar have not only turned to dust, they just plain have absorbed into the wood. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,FORTUNATO IN VEGAS Date: 12 Dec 02 - 08:29 PM YOU'VE: Wept when you saw the Tabs for Doc Watson's Beaumont Rag. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST Date: 13 Dec 02 - 03:30 AM you can play Going Home dire straits, drink a beer and smoke a fag at the same time Dialect# Fag = Cigarette |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Midchuck Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:23 AM You can play Doc Watson's version of Black Mountain Rag at speed. Let's see...his first Vanguard album came out in '64 or so, and I was originally taken by it, so I've been working on that one tune, on and off, for almost 40 years. Getting there, but I still fumble. And I have a guitar that can play it at double speed. I've heard it done. But it holds back on me. Peter. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Fred Miller Date: 13 Dec 02 - 08:51 AM Amos, until now I thought I'd read everything written in the 70's, but the closest I got to that was John Barthe's book with the mobius strip story. Lost in the Funhouse. I also remember the Villa-Lobos 7 thing--the cascading arppegs Em B7 etc? That one?-- and there was something people did with the rythm to make it more interesting. I never got the hang of it. It's odd, but I know another player who learned Wildwood Flower, then was challenged by his mother to transpose it. Don't know if his mom liked Tal Farlow, but he owned everything Farlow recorded. It's a small-bodied guitar world. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Murray MacLeod Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:14 PM "Black Mountain Rag", I spent many hours trying to get that one down after hearing Doc on the NG Dirt Band's "Will the Circle be Unbroken". I think if you are a flatpicker that is the "touchstone" tune. I can't see why "Wildwood Flower" figures so highly as a benchmark for picking. Nice tune for sure, but probably the easiest tune in the world to play solo, either flatpicking or fingerpicking. Murray |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: MikeOQuinn Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:39 PM Like quite a few people have mentioned, I've not heard of most of these tunes. Red-Haired boy is one I know on whistle, flute, and vocals, but haven't taken the time to learn on guitar. The one that tends to get attention the most for me is either "Hotel California" (Hell Freezes Over verion, of course), or just fingerpicking the chords to "Suicide is Painless." You'd be amazed at the number of people that just sit there and listen to that song, thinking "Gee, I know what song this is, but I can't identify the melody that goes here." Then, to really trip people out, I sing it... Hehehe -J |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Marion Date: 13 Dec 02 - 08:00 PM Mike, what's the Hell Freezes Over version of Hotel California? I would nominate "Closer to Fine" as my college crowd's must-play tune, among the girls at least. Marion |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: CraigS Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:35 PM I have recently been on holiday in Spain, and noted a disturbing trend. Those devilish cunning Spaniards have been taking tunes like the "Recuerdos de la Alhambra" and playing them as duets. They are very difficult as solos, but as duets they make the Ventures look sophisticated. You hear these versions played on tapes in bars,etc., and it is sad to hear the tourists ask to buy a copy to take home. Oh, well, Torremolinos! NB: while we're name dropping, it has to be said that the best fingerstyle jazz guitarist the world has ever seen is Julian Bream, but does anyone know of any Bream jazz recordings? I've seen him do it on TV, but trying to search leaves one submersed in his classical guitar work! |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Bobert Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:53 PM Well, what the heck: I played drums until I was about 17 ot 18 and then picked up a geetar. Yeah, "House of the Rising Sun" was the standard and so easy to play... Then came "Needle and the Damage Done" and that went around like wildfire. "Freebird" and the rest is history. But, a few years back when I decided I wanted to play blues I went to Blues Week and it was Robert Johnson's "Walkin Blues" in open A tuning. Well, I reckon I'z doing just fine 'cause I learned all of these so far... and a few others which are mine. Nice thing about playin' yer own stuff is that no one can tell ya that you're doing it wrong... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,fugly Date: 14 Dec 02 - 04:51 AM Jonh Martin Fairytale lullaby is a good one for picking.Nice and simple to start with but the chorus still induces the odd mistake from me. And one that no one has mentioned is the Dylan Dont think twice its alright I'm still trying to learn that little fellah |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,MikeOQuinn Date: 14 Dec 02 - 06:22 AM Hell Freezes Over version of Hotel California (n.)- 1. Version of the Eagles' hit song as performed on their most recent live tour/recording. Easily identified by the acoustic guitars being played, both classical and 12-string models. Available on the Eagles' CD, "Hell Freezes Over," and on the concert tour DVD by the same name. 2. Kickarse song, with awesome guitar leads and fills. Great intro. Great outtro. Stuff in between outstanding, as well. -J |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,van lingle Date: 14 Dec 02 - 07:23 AM ...you've got ciggarette burns on the headstock of your strat where you let your camels burn down to far. Around D.C. when I was learning to fingerpick the golden fleeces were Windy and Warm, Living in the Country, Doc's Guitar and In Christ There is no East or West (and Anji, which I've completely forgotten how to play). vl |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: greg stephens Date: 14 Dec 02 - 07:38 AM Well, thinking back a bit.. defintiely Wildwood Flower, in G, with the melody played by the thumb. thats the easy one. Then you progress a bit, and I recall freight Train clawhammer style and Anji were the next area to master. yhen there was Doc Watson and flatpicking Black mountain Rag and Beaumont Rag. I kind of gave up around them, I can still only play them slowly. Kahandu I think mentioned earlier, you dont have to learn the whole piece, the first couple of bars does the trick. You just throw them in while tuning up/warming up, and people think you can play them. Stopping just shows how cool you are "I cant be bothetred to play something so corny and well known". The first part of Anji serves this purpose, forget about the second bit. Now the fanciest guitar piece I ever tried to learn was Dave laibman's finger-picked version of Orange Blossom Special. I got him to tape it for me played really really slowly so as I could learn it, and I've been tinkering about it with it for 40 years. The fact is, I am now coming to realise, is that learning that piece is like shagging Brigitte Bardot. It is not going to happen. And I'm not sure that I want to any more. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Midchuck Date: 14 Dec 02 - 09:40 AM ....learning that piece is like shagging Brigitte Bardot. It is not going to happen. And I'm not sure that I want to any more. I am going to steal that line and use it. A lot. You should have copyrighted it. It applies to many ambitions I've had in my life. Peter. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: greg stephens Date: 14 Dec 02 - 09:45 AM Peter Midchuck: you're welcome to the line. The price is one pint, which entitles you to ten uses. After that a small top-up fee needs to be negotiated. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Mooh Date: 14 Dec 02 - 01:45 PM With a nod to another thread regarding tuning... You're not a guitar picker unless you can tune the thing! Peace, Mooh. |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: Cluin Date: 14 Dec 02 - 02:10 PM And when you get really good, you hire someone to tune it for you while you tank up backstage. ;) |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Fred Miller Date: 14 Dec 02 - 10:33 PM On request, I'll do Freebird. My cover version is just that diddle-diddle diddle-diddle lick over and over and over while I sing Lord help me I can't change.... |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,dexter Date: 14 Dec 02 - 11:06 PM If someone were to turn Raymond Scott's "Powerhouse" into a solo guitar piece, that someone would be THE guitar picker. "Powerhouse" is that insane jazz piece from the thirties that end up in about a zillion cartoons. Give it a try. Until that time, I have to vote for "Freight Train" transpositions. As I once heard a local picker lambaste his duet partner onstage, "There's a right way to play it wrong, then there's the wrong way to play it wrong!" |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST,Guest Andrew Date: 15 Dec 02 - 05:14 PM Angie yes I agree. Spent many an hour getting there. How about Alice's Restaurant from the other side of the Atlantic, or, now this is some time back, and hardly folk but still a proving tune - Tales of the Riverbank - only Brits will understand that I suspect |
|
Subject: RE: You're not a guitar picker unless... From: GUEST Date: 15 Dec 02 - 05:25 PM ...you can keep up to the banjo in Dueling Banjos? |
| Share Thread: |