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Phil Ochs

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Jazzyjack 13 Dec 02 - 02:20 AM
GUEST,the dafty 13 Dec 02 - 02:51 AM
Mark Cohen 13 Dec 02 - 03:06 AM
Wilfried Schaum 13 Dec 02 - 03:57 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 13 Dec 02 - 05:40 AM
BuckMulligan 13 Dec 02 - 06:57 AM
banjomad (inactive) 13 Dec 02 - 07:06 AM
harvey andrews 13 Dec 02 - 07:21 AM
harvey andrews 13 Dec 02 - 07:22 AM
Rapparee 13 Dec 02 - 09:04 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 13 Dec 02 - 09:06 AM
Amos 13 Dec 02 - 09:59 AM
Rick Fielding 13 Dec 02 - 11:42 AM
Ron Olesko 13 Dec 02 - 11:54 AM
Lanfranc 13 Dec 02 - 02:41 PM
Santa 13 Dec 02 - 03:03 PM
John MacKenzie 13 Dec 02 - 03:36 PM
GUEST 13 Dec 02 - 04:21 PM
Jazzyjack 13 Dec 02 - 04:27 PM
Greycap 13 Dec 02 - 04:28 PM
open mike 13 Dec 02 - 04:44 PM
BH 13 Dec 02 - 06:53 PM
harvey andrews 13 Dec 02 - 07:07 PM
Art Thieme 13 Dec 02 - 07:53 PM
Rara Avis 13 Dec 02 - 08:13 PM
Lanfranc 14 Dec 02 - 12:15 PM
GUEST,Matt Bleyle 20 Dec 03 - 06:10 PM
DonMeixner 21 Dec 03 - 02:05 AM
Bill Hahn//\\ 21 Dec 03 - 06:53 PM
Peace 22 Dec 03 - 01:41 AM
Willie-O 22 Dec 03 - 06:09 AM
PoppaGator 22 Dec 03 - 06:33 PM
Peace 22 Dec 03 - 10:12 PM
PoppaGator 23 Dec 03 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,Matt Bleyle 10 Dec 06 - 03:24 AM
John MacKenzie 10 Dec 06 - 04:29 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 10 Dec 06 - 04:47 AM
oldhippie 10 Dec 06 - 08:10 AM
Arkie 10 Dec 06 - 08:51 AM
Duke 10 Dec 06 - 10:23 AM
Azizi 10 Dec 06 - 05:50 PM
RTim 10 Dec 06 - 06:16 PM
Peace 10 Dec 06 - 06:17 PM
Peace 10 Dec 06 - 06:22 PM
bobad 10 Dec 06 - 06:28 PM
GUEST,guest 10 Dec 06 - 06:36 PM
Azizi 10 Dec 06 - 07:18 PM
GUEST,DonMeixner 10 Dec 06 - 07:23 PM
oldhippie 10 Dec 06 - 07:55 PM
bobad 10 Dec 06 - 08:00 PM
Azizi 10 Dec 06 - 08:00 PM
GUEST,Gerry 10 Dec 06 - 11:00 PM
GUEST,Janine 11 Dec 06 - 07:55 AM
Azizi 11 Dec 06 - 08:10 AM
Greg F. 11 Dec 06 - 10:30 AM
EBarnacle 11 Dec 06 - 02:16 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 11 Dec 06 - 03:47 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 11 Dec 06 - 03:50 PM
Bill Hahn//\\ 11 Dec 06 - 03:59 PM
Rog Peek 16 Apr 07 - 01:05 PM
bobad 22 Oct 09 - 04:11 PM
Rog Peek 23 Oct 09 - 01:18 PM
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Subject: Phil Ochs
From: Jazzyjack
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 02:20 AM

When my son Zach was 10, he had a book with the poem " The Highwayman " in it and he was fascinated by the picture of the highwayman racing along the road on his horse. I then told him that I had that poem put to music by a folksinger I had admired and seen twice in concert named Phil Ochs. He listened to it over and over.

Well now he is about to graduate with a theatre degree and for his final project, he has obtained the script for a one man show called " the Ballad of Phil Ochs ". As you may know, Phil Ochs was manic-depressive and actually developed a second persona, calling himself John Train who was a very negative and abusive character. On stage in the 70's, Ochs would slide back and forth between these characters and this is the basis for the play. We all now know that Ochs hung himself in 1976 leaving some of the greatest social commentary folk songs ever written.

Zach does a very admirable job imitating Phil Ochs. He tricked me on the phone as he played the intro lick to " I Ain't Marching Anymore " and started to sing it. I was certain it was Phil himself. Zach intends to take this show to Canadian fringe festivals eventually. He has obtained from eBay, rare film footage of Ochs on TV shows and in small concerts that have made me appreciate how talented Phil Ochs really was and why I was drawn to him as a young man. Of course what is really cool is seeing my own son find that same passion for his music. Zach and I do some open stages together and he always includes an Ochs' tune.

How many of you have seen Phil Ochs live or have some remebrance of his life or music ?


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,the dafty
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 02:51 AM

no


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 03:06 AM

Have you seen the songbook, "The War is Over", published by Barricade Music in 1968? (The cover price on my copy is $3.95!) A couple of dozen songs (including the complete text of "Crucifixion"), photos, the Broadside interview from 1965, essays by and about Phil, and some other strange stuff. A treasure!

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 03:57 AM

In the sixties a choir of German origin visited Germany and my hometown; their friendly leader was a Mr. Ochs. I don't know whether he was the Phil in question, but I still remember the fine German and English songs and the funny accent of the leader when speaking German.

Wilfried


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 05:40 AM

I never saw Phil Ochs, alas, but there's an excellent biography of him called "There But For Fortune: The Life Of Phil Ochs" by Michael Schumacher, publ. Hyperion, New York (though I don't know if it's still in print). The John B. Train section makes chilling reading.

Jazzy, your son's theatre project sounds fascinating and highly worthwhile. I hope he's able to get some good exposure for it. Does he plan to capture it on film or video? Keep us posted on what happens -


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 06:57 AM

I saw Phil Ochs in February of 1968, at the Kresge Auditorium of MIT. He was not a very good performer, as I recall, visibly uncomfortable on stage, no connection or communication with the audience other than the music, which he more or less rushed through. He was not a particularly good guitarist or singer. He rocked woodenly back and forth, shifting his weight from leg to leg arhythmically, which distracted considerably from the attention one wanted to pay to the music. He either mumbled between songs, or said nothing and just proceeded into the next number.

There was no hint of another "presence" though, he just wasn't at home in front of the audience. None of which, of course, bears on the fact that his best writing ("Changes" is my favorite - "Crucifixion" is a wonderful poem, but probably shouldn't be a song) is unmatched, (and the rest of his stuff can approach abysmal and pretentious).

The next night, as luck would have it, I saw Tom Paxton, who was (and still is) a consummate performer, who was (or appeared to be) totally comfortable onstage, in full command of his music and the audience. Saw him a year ago, and it was like no time had passed, he'd just added more lovely fun & music.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: banjomad (inactive)
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:06 AM

There was a BBC [ I think ] film about Phil, which has some actual footage of Phil. It is a docu drama called The Chords of Fame. A
brilliant performance from Bill Burnett as Phil, interviews with Mike Porco, Dave Van Ronk, Pete Seeger and a host of others notably Jerry
Rubin who tried his best to help Phil. It also had interviews with Phils brother and his daughter Meegan who had a premonition of her fathers death. Luckily I taped it at the time of broadcast.
Find it if you can, it really is very good. What a tragedy for Phil to feel so bad that he had to end his life.
Blessings, Dave


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: harvey andrews
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:21 AM

Phil stayed with me on his first British tour. He was sane, very pleasant, and loved my mother's cooking. We sat up till late at night playing mostly Buddy Holly records. He did a great concert in Nottingham the night before. He signed my visitors book "Phil Ochs. Hanoi"
On stage I understand the above quote about him being uncomfortable. An audience member shouted out a couple of times for "The Thresher", Phil told him to stop being disrespectful! The temperature in the auditorium dropped a couple of points. However, as said, the songs were great and can only be judged in the context of the times.
I read about his suicide on a train and wrote "Song for Phil Ochs" which I recorded on my "Someday" album in the 70's.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: harvey andrews
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:22 AM

Meant to say good luck to your son. It sounds a fascinating project and I hope it succeeds in turning some young people to the work of one of the greats.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 09:04 AM

I've got a copy of "Tape From California" on a reel-to-reel tape, and, yes, I have a reel-to-reel tape recorder/player. Might have some of his lyrics and music in one of the anthologies. Somewhere I remember having an LP of "I ain't a-marchin' anymore" too, but all my LPs are in storage right now and I can't get to them.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 09:06 AM

I saw Phil Ochs several times in Greenwich Village in the early 60's. That was the starting point of their careers for Tom Paxton, Phil Ochs, Dave Van Ronk, Peter LaFarge, Noel Stookey, Lou Gossett, Fred Neil, Len Chandler, Richie Havens, and even Peter Tork(who became a Monkey.) They were playing in small coffee houses, and just starting to record. Of all those performers, Ochs was by far the least comfortable. I respected him for his songwriting and the intensity of his commitment to the anti-war movement, but I found him
almost impossible to sit and listen to for more than a couple of songs. Of the other performers listed above, they all seemed far more comfortable and accessible as people. It was a tragedy that Ochs didn't seem capable of relaxing or just enjoying the moment. Even Dylan, who was so nervous that it looked like he was hooked up to a low voltage wire seemed more relaxed and communicative than Phil. I probably would have enjoyed Och's music more if I had never seen him perform. I didn't see him after he achieved more fame, so I don't know how he was later in his time.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Amos
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 09:59 AM

No-one from that era passed untouched by his music; he was one of "the" voices of the period, and he wrote inspiring songs, and sang a lot better than Dylan.

Your son deserves congratulations!!

A


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 11:42 AM

Yep...Knew him during his many visits to Toronto. He would often stay at the apartment of a mutual friend. Like Harvey I found him to be great company, funny, articulate, manic as hell, obviously, 'cause he always seemed to have ten projects on the go. I LOVED the way he dressed, and even started affecting a tweed sports jacket like he did (ahh the perils of hero worship).

I'll disagree a bit with the others here on how I reacted to his stage performance. In the tiny confines of "The Riverboat" he was HILARIOUS! A sense of irony so well-defined that he left half the audience staring dumb-founded....and the other half rolling on the floor.

One afternoon I asked him how he felt about always being put down as a bad guitarist, when in fact he knew ten times as many chords as his peers and could actually flat-pick lead lines. (although they could get pretty sloppy depending on how much he'd consumed!) Don't remember his answer, but he wasn't as bothered by the inaccuracy as I was. Ha ha!

I had occasion recently to see a number of clips of Phil, including ones when he was sick. They were not easy to watch.

Along with Tom Rush and The Greebriar Boys, he was my main motivation to become a professional musicain.

Cheers

Rick


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 11:54 AM

I'm curious about the play.   A couple of years after Phil died there was a play that ran at Folk City. I don't remember the name of the artist who played Phil, but I thought he did a decent job. I seem to remember that we recorded the show and broadcast it on WFDU, I probably have a tape somewhere. I don't remember it being called "The Ballad of Phil Ochs", but I'm wondering if it evolved from the production I saw. If you have any information - name of the author, who publishes it, etc, I would be very interested.

Ron


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Lanfranc
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 02:41 PM

I never saw Phil Ochs live, more's the pity. His UK tours must have been poorly advertised, or not advertised anywhere that I saw, because I only learned of them subsequently from the liner notes on an album ("Pleasures of the Harbor" ?).

His songbook was one of the first that I bought, and I still have a handful of his albums on vinyl and CD. He was one of the songwriters that I admired, and I still perform several of his songs ("Changes", "Outside of a Small Circle of Friends", "Flower Lady", "There but for Fortune", "Pleasures of the Harbor" and, after suitable revision, "Highwayman" - it's a l_o_n_g song!) and they have, to my mind, stood the test of time. I have also, lurking somewhere among my Betamax videos, "Chords of Fame" and another programme about him where I didn't record the opening - it could be "The Ballad of Phil Ochs" mentioned above. I must transfer them to VHS before my Betamax finally dies.

I would be very interested to hear more about Jazzyjack's son's project. A video or DVD at some future date, perhaps?

Alan


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Santa
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 03:03 PM

I saw him at Bristol (UK) in 64/65, at the University Folk Club that also had Tom Paxton, Bert Jansch and Al Stewart that first year...no doubt others that have slipped the mind. He certainly impressed me, I don't recall anything uncomfortable about the performance, and I could have heard more. I have his LPs, though they don't get played much anymore for too many of the references have passed their sell-by dates.

I don't compare Dylan with Ochs on a table of "greats", but suggest that whereas protest politics was a phase with Dylan, it was Ochs' fire in his belly. Which is why he couldn't (or at least didn't) appeal to that larger audience.

Basically, I agree with most of the favourites you mention, though I would add Miranda. And I would like to buy a copy of Crucifixion without that appalling backing track......

On the night we first bought a TV in the current home, I put it on at random and there was a history of Phil Ochs running - I was lost for the hour it took, but it ended with a massed choir of NY folkies singing Crucixion - now that I dearly love to have!


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 03:36 PM

"All the news that's fit to sing" by Phil Ochs is probably the most moving and cogent LP I own. He brought "tell it like it is" , to a fine art. It is very sad that he killed himself, but good that he escaped this world, and thus ceased being tortured by his demons.

"The whole world is off limits, visit Disneyland this year."

Giok


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 04:21 PM

Thanks to all of you for your interest. Phil was very sloppy as the years progressed but the rap about his guitar playing is misplaced. He had an extremely fluid strumming style which could quickly change to picking as in " There But For Fortune ".I once saw Phil restart a tune 5 times to retune his guitar. For his time he was quite competent.

If you listen to a lot of his work as I have to my son's collection, you can't help but be impressed with how clever and poetic he was and with the volume of his work. " I have a gem of a tape made in 1966 at his Montreal concert when he was at his peak. It contains tunes like " Outside of a Small Circle of Friends" and " The Party " that he ruined with orchestral accompaniment on the album " Tape From California ". "Flower Lady " captured the 60's mood but it's still relevant today. I don't think he ever got the recognition he deserved.
The play was written by a theatre professor at Malaspina College in Nanaimo , BC, Canada by Ross Desprez but it's probably not readily available.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Jazzyjack
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 04:27 PM

Sorry, the last post was from me. I forgot to log in.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Greycap
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 04:28 PM

Saw him open for Doc Watson and Ralph Rinzler at Manchester, UK, about either '65 or '66. Although he was on of my songwriting heroes, his stage performance was unimpressive. I would be delighted to say otherwise, but he was dull.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: open mike
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 04:44 PM

that's Monkee


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: BH
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 06:53 PM

Your son's project seems like a wonderful undertaking. If you get a recording of it I know I would love to hear it---and perhaps we can use it on our radio program on WFDU. And if, once we hear it, perhaps we can contact him re: making an appearance on the program.

My own respect for Phil and his music is pretty boundless. I never did see him on a stage---but his words are more memorable than many other artists that I could name.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: harvey andrews
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:07 PM

Couldn't agree more about the backing on "Crucifiction", but has any American writer ever written a more European song than "Pleasures of the harbour."? It blew my mind....then I found Jacques Brel!


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:53 PM

Phil came to Chicago to do a benefit for Sing Out! magazine at a great club called The Quiet Knight owned by Richard Harding. Jim Glover (of Jim And Jean) was Phil's college roomy. He came to the benefit joined Phil on stage for a few songs. I still have a bad slide I took of the two of them on stage. Malvina Reynolds was on that bill too. Ola Belle Reed also. Me too.
I saw Phil again later that week in Old Town somewhere and I asked him if he'd mind if I used a title of one of his songs, "Links On The Chain", as the title for my column I'd begun writing monthly in COME FOR TO SING MAGAZINE out of Chicago. Phil gratiously said, "Thanks for asking. Sure."---------- I do wish I'd liked him more doing his own songs. Truth is, whenever I saw Phil he was, more or less, using Bob Gibson's mannerisms and trying to do Bob's guitar style I thought. His "jerkiness" was an exageration and a parody of a style that was endearing and effective when Gibson did it.------ But Jim and Jean's verve Records LP had the best versions of "Flower Lady", "Crucifixion", "Changes" and some others. These days, Terry Leonino and Greg Artzner really do a bang-up job on many of his tunes, but their version of "When I'm Gone" is just beautiful and spellbinding.

(In the first issue of COME FOR TO SING I had called my column THE LAVENDER COWBOY. I was making fun, I thought, of myself for being a city kid who sang macho Western, hobo, and North Woods lumberjack songs. But then I had second thoughts-------and changed the title.)

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Rara Avis
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 08:13 PM

I never saw Phil in person but I do have most of his records, in one format or another. In a high school class in the late sixties we were given an assignment - by a teacher who was trying to be hip - to choose an example of a meaningful song and a silly song. I don't remember why. Most students chose one or another love song as their meaningful song and "Yummy Yummy Yummy I've Got Love in My Tummy" (the things you remember!) as their silly song. My choice of silly songs was some dreck love song and my meaningful song was "Small Circle of Friends". I was immediately branded a hippie, non-conformist, etc. It became a turning point for me. I saw that I had a choice of being a sheep or striking out independently. I left the sheep behind. I will always thank Phil Ochs for that.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Lanfranc
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 12:15 PM

RE "Crucifixion"

I have a vague memory of seeing on television a recording of this song, sung a capella by a considerable choir of folk luminaries, including, I seem to recall, Tom Paxton and Eric Anderson. Far more powerful than the arrangement on "Pleasures of the Harbor", which was, to my mind, just gratuitously weird! Phil's simple guitar accompaniment on "There and Now" works just fine - I've tried to emulate it, but it is a difficult song to do.

Was the "choral" version ever released on vinyl or CD?

Alan


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,Matt Bleyle
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 06:10 PM

I'm 19 years old and no other songwriter in the history of western civilization could ever inspire me to do care about anything as Phil Ochs does. Dylan was more innovative but his protest songs really do nothing for me. They become meaningless after reading anything about his life and wealth. Woody Guthrie is an important folk hero but too old for me to become completely obsessed with. Pete Seeger was a liberal concerning politics but a conservative concerning art. Phil Ochs was the eptiome of his times. He could have been any American kid sitting at home writing songs but he was the choosen one. He was alive and active during an era of change that never changed anything and he killed himself when the era had died. Phil Ochs is the most under-rated musician in the history of America. He should be remembered the same way Woody Guthrie is remembered. He was the last folk hero and one of the only folk heros that never died in the heart of the dreamer.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: DonMeixner
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:05 AM

Matt,

I have to agree with much of wht you say. When my 19 year old son (now 21) was looking into writing songs about social activism. I gave hime my Phil Ochs albums to listen too. He found a person committed to his cause and with out fear for what he wrote. he found a man with an incredible lyric sense as well as an ironic turn.

I pointed out that Ochs was admirable not so much for what he wrote but for his unwaivered stand.

I also agree that his guitar playing is taking a bad rap. I found him skilled and complex while seeming simple in his excecution. I thot his finger picking to be fine. His guitar style was much like the style Pete Seegar employed. Loud and raucus (as need be) between the verses when no singing was done and softer and more melodic when he was singing. Listen to The Highwayman for a small hint of this.

I never saw him live so I can imagine very well he lacked consistant comfort on stage. Many great singers have stage fright. Carly Simon for instance is dibilitated by it from time to time.

Your view of Phil Ochs is much like mine and my sons. Nice for me to be in such good company.

Don


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 06:53 PM

Though I may not agree with Matt B. (above) re: Pete Seeger and surely do agree with him re: Dylan I have to say that Phil Ochs, to me, got to the heart of a matter and expressed it perfectly in song. In addition he was able to write some beautiful pieces of a non-political nature (Flower Lady, Changes, etc;). He was NOT as Dylan referred to him---a reporter. He was a wonderful writer who also knew how to report things in an immediate and straighforward manner that could be understood by most people.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Peace
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 01:41 AM

I had the pleasure of working with Phil during the McCarthy campaign in late '67 and early '68 (I think in Indiana, maybe South Bend). He was a very good performer in that he talked very intelligently with his audience: articulate, clever and smart. In my mind, Phil was a genius. He sang for both McCarthy and Kennedy, because, in his words, he wanted a decent democrat to win the party nomination. He played guitar well. I find myself at odds with those who have said otherwise; however, most performers have some bad performances. I saw Phil play over a dozen times, and only one performance was what ya could call bad. Hey, shit happens. His melodies are generally catchy, and his phrasing is perfect. He was encouraging to me, and so many years later, he still holds a place in my heart.

Bruce Murdoch


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Willie-O
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 06:09 AM

I saw Phil Ochs around 1973 and I saw Zach Stevenson's performance of "The Ballad of Phil Ochs" last month.

Zach's singing voice is uncannily like Ochs. His onstage style while singing, with a lot of theatrical mannerisms, doesn't really jive with how I remember seeing Phil Ochs. After all, it was back in the days of miking your guitar, you couldn't move around that much, and I'm pretty sure he was sitting down to perform. But Art T's comments suggest that he was like that sometimes...and all of us seem to have seen different facets of the real Phil Ochs. My take was that he was a consummate and riveting performer, clearly bitter, but there was no indication that he was becoming unhinged. I sure am glad I saw him, one of my most worthwhile trips to Le Hibou.

The website for Ballad of Phil Ochs notes that they will be releasing a CD of the songs from the show in the near future. They will be touring Ontario in January, but only Ottawa and Toronto dates are on the website so far. (I've been trying to book them here but there are scheduling difficulties).

W-O


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: PoppaGator
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 06:33 PM

I was delighted to read the message posted by 19-year-old Matt Bleyle, but must take issue with one thing he said:

"He was alive and active during an era of change **that never changed anything** [emphasis mine] and he killed himself when the era had died."

Yeah, the highest ideals and most grandiose dreams of the 60s certainly fell short of coming completely true, but don't kid yourself -- the world began to change much more quickly back then than it ever had before, and the accelerating pace of change hasn't stopped since.

Of course, you weren't alive then -- or beforehand -- so perhaps there's no way you can imagine what it was really like in the bad old days. But please consider this: if the so-called "revolution" of the 1960s hadn't had *some* effect, you would be subject to military conscription today, and huge numbers of young men your age (if not you yourself) would be at risk of their lives in the Middle East, right now. Do you have any doubt that the powers-that-be would show any particular mercy if they still had access to a continuing supply of involuntary cannon fodder?

We all owe a thank-you to artists like Phil Ochs who gave public voice to new ideas and attitudes, subversive if not revolutionary, and (even moreso) to the countless little-known individuals who followed their consciences to jail or to exile in the hard-fought and eventually successful campaign against the draft.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Peace
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 10:12 PM

I think the 60s did change a few things, not the least of which was the people who were active during those times. Perhaps the era will be studied by cultural anthropologists and lots of other 'ists', and then maybe the world will know for sure if all the troubles changed anything for the better. I think so. But, I can't prove it. I do remember the courage it took for people to face dogs, cops, soldiers and racists. And I remember the courage it took for kids to attend forced-integration schools. I remember the courage it took for people to respond to hate with love and guns with empty hands. How bloody stupid is it to walk down a street--surrounded by people who hate what you stand for, faced by very pissed off police dogs and equally pissed off police--singing "We Shall Overcome"? It took courage for kids to serve time in the military, but it also took courage not to. I see the same courage exemplified by the people today who protest globalization efforts. Maybe, Matt, their efforts will amount to nothing, but also maybe we'll just never know the impact they do have.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 12:12 PM

Amen, brucie. (and refresh)


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,Matt Bleyle
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 03:24 AM

This message is to all that read this when i posted it a little under 3 years ago. It really made me a little nostalgic reading it... To this day i still hold my beliefs on Phil Ochs. I didn't mean to offend anyone who grew up in the 60s... if I've learned anything from Phil Ochs its that we owe a lot today to the baby boomers... it's easy for a young kid (i was 19 at the time) to take it for granted... I think (I hope) what I was trying to say was Phil Ochs death signaled a change and was very symbolic to me. I hate to turn a man whom many of you have written about meeting and seeing perform live into a myth but to me thats what he is. He's this strange muse that keeps me going amidst all of this apathy and laziness. I worship him the way he might have worshipped James Dean or John Wayne. His death was symbolic of something very big though... If in the 60s the times were a changing than in the 80s they changed back in a lot of ways (though the fear of reinstating the draft has remained THANK YOU BABY BOOMERS!).

It's amazing to me how you can listen to a young optimistic man change so drastically by listening to his albums in chronological order. America really missed out on a great artist and i can only pray that the intellectuals and academics will look beyond the highbrow/lowbrow/popular/folk barriers and realize that Phil Ochs was up there among the greatest artists of his times. He is our Van Gough or Rimbaud.

I also gotta say that although I mentioned that I couldnt relate as much to Guthrie, Seeger or Dylan... i respected them all and still do(the first two more so than the latter.. I like Dylan but I hate his influence and the fact that there are so many who want to "be" him...)

I was really happy to read that there was a father on here that turned his son onto Phil Ochs because thats the way I learned of Ochs too.. I cant think of a better way to become acquainted with Ochs than through a family member. I'm sure that some of my undying love for Phil has something to do with the fact that my father showed me him. If I ever have kids... who knows... I look forward to showing them Ochs too.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 04:29 AM

A phenomenal singer/songwriter, I wonder what he would make of Iraq?
I can almost hear the scathing and incisive comments now.
Giok


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 04:47 AM

It's amazing how two people can see the same event and come away with very different opinions on the performance. In a previous posting, someone mentioned seeing Phil in Manchester, UK in 1965 and finding him "dull"! Well, I, too, was present at that show and Phil was definitely not dull! From the second he bounded on to the stage he was just so alive. His singing and playing were great and his witty and ironic remarks were a treat. I was sat near some members of The Spinners folkgroup and they were laughing out loud at many of Phil's comments.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: oldhippie
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:10 AM

There have been several songs written about Phil:

"All My Heroes Are Dead" - Dar Williams
"I Dreamed I Saw Phil Ochs Last Night" - Billy Bragg
"The Parade's Still Passing By" - Harry Chapin
"Phil" - Tom Paxton
"Phil Ochs" -Steve Skaith/Mike Jones
"Broadside Balladeer" - Vic Sadot

Lyrics to most are here: (the phil ochs lyrics site)
http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics.html


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Arkie
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:51 AM

I have not seen mention of Phil Ochs other alter ego, as demonstrated on his "Greatest Hits" album where he appeared in a gold lame suit and sang such songs as "Gas Station Women" in a country or rockabilly style.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Duke
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 10:23 AM

I know that there have been some books written about Phil and so I went to the largest book store I could find and asked about them. All I got was Phil who? So sad! For the protest song, there was Phil and Dylan. I know there were others, but these were the two I listened to most. They are different, but equally enjoyable. I never compared one to the other, I just enjoyed their music.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 05:50 PM

I'm not sure how I happened upon a record of Phil Ochs, but I'm glad I did.

I looked on YouTube for songs from that particular album, but couldn't find them there. However, but I did find a number of Phil Och's video clips.

Here's one of them:

The Highwayman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsKc7zQtfRU&search=phil%20ochs

Added December 05, 2006; From hassanradwan
"The Highwayman by Phil Ochs. It is from a classic poem by Alfred Noyes. Phil Ochs was a great protest singer in the 60s and sadly commited suicide in 1976. His best known song is the anti-war song "I Aint Marchin' Anymore" RIP Phil Ochs"


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: RTim
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:16 PM

When did Ochs put The Highwayman to music?

I knew a singer, whose named I have forgotten, who used to sing it years and years ago - at least 35 years?! is that possible? This was in Southampton at a pub some friends and I used to sing at.
I thought at the time it was he who put the poem to music.

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:17 PM

Phil put it to music in the mid 1960s.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:22 PM

Looks like about 1964 or 1965. Not sure about those dates.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:28 PM

It was on the album "I Ain't Marchin' Anymore" released in 1965 on the Elektra label as EKL-287.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 06:36 PM

And that RTim is why songwriters get a bit pissed off. I never sing someone else's song without acknowledging their work.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 07:18 PM

I've been trying to remember the name of the Phil Ochs album that I had: "All The News That's Fit To Print" -does that sound familiar?

I remember two songs from that album: "Knock On The Door" and "Celia".

Is that the right name for that album?


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 07:23 PM

That is about right Azizi. Celia is a melody that haunts me after forty years.

Don


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: oldhippie
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 07:55 PM

"All The News That's Fit To Sing" was the LP title.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: bobad
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:00 PM

That's right oldhippie, "All The News That's Fit To Print" is the masthead logo of the N.Y. Times which coincidently published by Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:00 PM

Thanks for confirming that title.

There were some great songs on that album. I wonder if it's on CD, but my daughter tells me that nobody deals with CDs any more. IPods have taken over. I bet that plays havoc to recording artists' sales.

But that's another story.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 11:00 PM

oldhippie listed a number of songs written about Phil Ochs.
There's at least one more, recorded by Schooner Fair, and written
by a member of that group. Unfortunately, I'm currently 10,000
miles away from my copy of the record, so I don't have the name
of the song or the album.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: GUEST,Janine
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 07:55 AM

Thanks Azizi for finding and sharing the film clips. It's lovely to see what Phil Ochs looked like on stage. 'There But For Fortune' is a wonderful haunting song.
Poems put to music don't usually work at all but Phil Ochs with 'The Highwayman' works really well. So does his rendering of EA Poe's 'The Bells'

Jan


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 08:10 AM

You're welcome Janine.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 10:30 AM

The "best" collection of Phil Och's work may be:

Farewells & Fantasies: The Phil Ochs Collection [BOX SET]
Rhino R2 73518 (1997)
ASIN: B00000347F

Disc: 1         
1. What's That I Hear         
2. The Bells         
3. Morning         
4. Bound For Glory         
5. The Highwayman         
6. Power And The Glory         
7. That's What I Want To Hear         
8. Links On A Chain         
9. Love Me, I'm A Liberal         
10. Too Many Martyrs         
11. In The Heat Of The Summer         
12. Here's To The State Of Mississippi         
13. I'm Going To Say It Now         
14. One More Parade         
15. Draft Dodger Rag         
16. I Ain't Marching Anymore         
17. We Seek No Wider War         
18. Ringing Of Revolution         
19. When I'm Gone         
20. Song Of My Returning         
21. There But For Fortune         
Disc: 2         
1. The War Is Over         
2. I Ain't Marching Anymore         
3. White Boots Marching In A Yellow Land         
4. Is There Anybody Here?         
5. Santo Domingo         
6. Song Of A Soldier         
7. Cops Of The World         
8. Bracero         
9. Canons Of Christianity         
10. I Kill Therefore I Am         
11. The Confession         
12. William Butler Yeats Visits Lincoln Park And ...         
13. A Toast To Those Who Are Gone         
14. Changes         
15. The Doll House         
16. When In Rome         
Disc: 3         
1. Pretty Smart On My Part         
2. The World Began In Eden And Ended In Los Angeles         
3. Tape From California         
4. Chords Of Fame         
5. Gas Station Women         
6. Miranda         
7. Outside Of A Small Circle Of Friends         
8. Cross My Heart         
9. Flower Lady         
10. The Scorpion Departs But Never Returns         
11. Pleasures Of The Harbor         
12. Jim Dean Of Indiana         
13. Rehearsals For Retirement         
14. Doesn't Lenny Live Here Anymore         
15. No More Songs         
16. Crucifixion         

Tho currently out of print, used copies turn up pretty frequrntly.

A search of amazon.com turns up several dozen Ochs CD's still currently available.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 02:16 PM

Bodad: They are part of the same family.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:47 PM

Azizi: Great link to the Phil Ochs material---and such great videos. I am always amazed where people got them all those years ago.

       There is one--the one with tex McRary that surprised me---the interview ends --everyone says good night and speaks of how literate Phil is and how his words mean so much---SO what do they use as an outro---Bob Dylan. Go figure.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:50 PM

By the way---strange to see the performers at that time--everyone wore suits and ties. The times they are not a changing---they have changed.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 03:59 PM

Looks like I was the last to be able to see that interview---seems it is now removed because it belongs to the estate of Murray the K--the host of the program. Glad I got so see it--and be surprised that one would use Dylan when you are compl;imenting and interviewing Phil

Reminds me of an incident when I had a guest on my program who I was influental in getting booked at the Bottom Line. The guest had to make a guest appearance on another station to promote the gig---the host at that station mentioned some songs the guest had recorded whch were covers--and then proceeded to say that they should play the composer's version. Reminded me of this incident---true discourtesy to a guest.

Bill Hahn


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Rog Peek
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 01:05 PM

Back in December oldhippie posted some of the songs about Phil.

All the songs listed here are written for, about, contain reference to or are dedicated to Phil Ochs.

If anyone out there knows of anymore, I'd be pleased to hear.


Anderson, Eric        *                         Thirsty Boots
Andrews, Harvey        *                        Song For Phil Ochs
Blanks                                         For Phil and Others
Blue, David        *                        Cupid's Arrow
Bragg, Billy        *                        I dreamed I Saw PO last night
Chapin, Harry        *                        The Parade's Still Going Past
Drake Barry                                Fallen Star
Fish, Leslie                                Chickasaw Mountain
Glover, Jim                                Psychic Cowboy
Griffith, Nanci        *                        Radio Fragile
Guthrie, Arlo   *                      Partiot's Dream
Harding, John Wesley *                        Phil Ochs, Bob Dylan, Steve
                                        Goodman, David Blue & Me
Honig, Jack                              Tribute to Phil ochs
Joplin, Josh        *                        Phil Ochs
Kahn, Brenda                                Goldfish Don't Talk Back
Kaplan, Paul                                Phil
Kind Of Like Spitting                        Sheriff Ochs
Latin Quarter (Steve Skaith &        *        Phil Ochs
                  Mike Jones)        
Nardin, Richard                                Song for Phil
Paxton, Tom        *                        Phil
Pegg Bruce                                Death of a Rebel
Sadot Vic        *                        The Broadside Balladeer
Schinkel, Gerd                                Epitaph Fuer Phil Ochs
Schooner Fare(Steve Romanoff)        *        Don't Stop To Rest
Snider, Todd                                Thin Wild Mercury
They Might Be Giants        *                The Day
Voice of Reason                                Remember Phil Ochs
Walker        , Sammy                *                Legends
Walker, Sammy                                Not Just Another Fad
Williams Dar                *                All My Heroes Are Dead

I have recordings of those which are asterisked, and am close to getting two more.

The list was souced from 'Phil Ochs - A Bio Bibliography' by David Cohen, Wikipedia and http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/discog.html

Yes I am a pretty fanatical Phil Ochs Fan, have been for 40+ years, never tire of listening to his songs. He always said he was a topical singer (as opposed to a folkie) many of his songs are just as relevant today as they were then, after all American foreign policy never seems to change.

Rog


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: bobad
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 04:11 PM

Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: bobad - PM
Date: 10 Dec 06 - 08:00 PM

That's right oldhippie, "All The News That's Fit To Print" is the masthead logo of the N.Y. Times which is coincidently published by Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: EBarnacle - PM
Date: 11 Dec 06 - 02:16 PM

Bodad: They are part of the same family.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From "Death Of A Rebel" by Marc Elliot, which I am currently reading:

"Phil was ecstatic. He was sure now there had to be a connection between his family and the Ochs family which had founded the New york Times. He spent hours in the New York Public Library researching the Ochs family tree. Although he could never find a link, he was always sure one existed."

For the record.


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Subject: RE: Phil Ochs
From: Rog Peek
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 01:18 PM

I had forgotten that it was Oldhippie's posting on this thread that prompted me to start the Songs for /about Phil Ochs thread. I had of course started my search for thses songs, but not with anything like the enthusiasm that ensued once that thread had started. Not only did Oldhippie unwittingly prompt the start of the thread, but has provided invaluable help with some of the entries along the way.

The count has now reached 49 identified, of which lyrics for 44 are posted and I have recordings of 40, the most recent addition being that of 'Tribute to Phil Ochs' by Jack Honig, which arrived in the post on Wednesday of this week.

It's amazing to think that the most recent song was written in 2007 with songs being written and recorded by at regular intervals since his death in 1976.

Any help with the missing songs would of course be very welcome.

Rog


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