BS: No Smoking-2years on

Subject: No Smoking-2years on
From: nutty
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:01 AM

Well its time for another update.

2years ago I gave up smoking. It was something that I had tried to do so many times before , but this time, thanks to the help and support that I got from mudcatters, I actually made it.
It certainly has not been easy and I am still battling with the weight gain (something that never bothered me as a smoker) but I am able (for the first time) to indulge in some serious retail therapy - so who cares.

There were a number of other people who gave up around the same time ..... how is it with you folks?? .... I'd love to hear.

Also if you are thinking of giving up and would like an internet friend, I would be happy to give you as much support as you need . Just let me know.

Hazel

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,maire-aine at work
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:08 AM

I quit a year and a half ago, and I felt better almost immediately. I must admit to having one or two since then, but I haven't gone back to smoking. I didn't gain weight afterwards, because a was overweight before I stopped. But lately I've been getting a handle on that too, and I've lost about 20 pounds, but that's just a start to what I need to lose. Good luck.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: MMario
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:19 AM

Has it been two years already! congratulations!

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Brakn
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:29 AM

I gave up two years ago and haven't had a drag since. I feel great though I have put on a bit of weight. I was remarking to my wife on Monday that I don't have sore throats or colds anymore. Tuesday I come down with a sore throat and a cold. Right now I feel like death! Tonight I start 11 gigs in 10 days. I don't know how I'll cope but I know I'll cope better than if I was still smoking!

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:29 AM

Quit in 1967. Some weight gain. Feel better (Still miss smoking.0 Oh well.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:36 AM

Gave up my pipe in 1985 and I still miss, especially when I'm fishing or just relaxing amidst the woods and streams.

Yes, I did gain weight. I'm working on that.

And Yes, I do feel better -- and I don't get up in the night coughing anymore, either!

Go for it. It's worth it in the long run!

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Louie Roy
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:41 AM

Gave up July 9 1960 haven't puffed since,but did gain weight Louie Roy

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:42 AM

It's been 7 months since I quit smoking an dI have put about a stone in weight on but I am trying to do something about that!!!

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: My guru always said
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM

Yep, count me into the 2 year gang *G*

Did put on weight & going to the gym a couple of times a week hasn't helped that at all. It's really helped my breathing & voice & the top notes seem much easier now!

Well Done All - Keep it up :-)

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: jeffp
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM

I smoked my last cigarette April 16, 2001. Gained 30 pounds pretty quickly and have taken 6 of them back off. I don't really have any cravings any more, but sometimes after a really great meal I would like to just sit back and light one up. One of the benefits is that now my chest doesn't heave when I climb 2 flights of stairs. My knees complain loudly, however. Also, my voice has regained some upper range and resonance.

jeffp

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Auxiris
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 10:58 AM

First and most important, I'd like to offer you my sincere congratulations for having stopped smoking. I stopped smoking over 12 years ago now, though I do admit that I have to sometimes fight the desire to smoke. The price of cigarettes alone is a pretty good deterrent, as they can cost over 4 euros a pack here in France now! My very best regards,

cheers,

Aux

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Hollowfox
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 12:19 PM

Way to go, Nutty! Wow, has it been two years already? Congratulations to you all on wrestling with one of the toughest addictions in the world, and pinning it to the mat.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Amergin
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 12:21 PM

been over a year and a half for me....

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 12:41 PM

Wow! As an ex-smoker,too, I am so pleased for you.

As for gaining weight post-smoking, which I did too, I suspect there are a number of factors at work.

#1- All those years when I smoked, I didn't have to pay attention to my belly. At a certain point of each meal I wanted a cigarette.

#2- When I was hungry and didn't have the time or food wasn't available, a cigarette was a fine substitute.

#3- I think one's metabolism is more efficient without the drug. When one is smoking, one's whole system has to work harder to extract the nutrients from one's food.

#4- As a smoker, I was used to having my hands in use. That was one of the hardest things for me to get around, after I quit. Food keeps one's hands busy.

#5- Food tastes better.

There are probably other issues but these are the ones I became aware of.

But CONGRATULATIONS to all of you! I quit about 25 years ago. Someone's cigarette outdoors (NEVER indoors) still smells kind of good and once in awhile I think it would be nice to light up but quitting smoking is still one thing I am proud of- I should't have started, I should have quit when my daughter wanted me to do, I could have saved all that money- but HEY! I quit.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 12:50 PM

Congatulations to you all! Well-done. Now...if I could just get my Rog to read your words and actually want to quit and try it! At least he never, ever does it in the house or near me.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 01:23 PM

Congratulations to all you folk who decided to quit and succeeded!

I've been smoking since I was about 10 years old and tried to quit a few times, but I'm still puffin'. What really helps me to cut down is to restrict myself to smoking outside only. I'm down to about 10 a day now, and I'm grateful my home doesn't smell like a dirty ashtray anymore. I also have more money in my wallet these days.

All the 'propoganda' against smoking brings out the 'rebel' in me I guess. Not very mature, probably, but I've been putting up with unsolicited advice about smoking all my life and it just brings up all the old "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!" feelings.

Also, I've always enjoyed excellent health. I hardly ever get colds or flus, and when I do it's usually because I'm overtired and been around sickly non-smokers. That's the honest truth.

I'm sure NOT encouraging anyone to start or continue smoking, but here's a little story that comforts me when the propoganda gets to me and I'm down on myself for not quitting (yet).

Last year I was driving up a mountainside near Hope, B.C. An elderly fellow was pedalling an old bicycle up the mountain ahead of me. He got my attention because his hair was so silver, he was laden down with back-packs and gear strapped onto the bike, and that was a very long and steep grade. I was thinking "way to go, old man! I'm a few decades younger than you and I don't think I could do that!" But when I passed him, I got a real surprise. He was puffing on a pipe, smoke billowing all around him, and at his age still pedalling up that mountain. I wished I had my camera!

I thought THAT would make an excellent poster to counteract all the anti-smoking propoganda. Keep telling people that they are going to get sick, and eventually through the power of suggestion they probably will. Cancer is big business in Canada!

Tobacco is a mood-altering plant that the North American native peoples viewed as sacred. They use it in their ceremonies and prayers much as Europeans use alcohol. They believe the smoke carries their prayers to Great Spirit, and they offer it to their elders and healers - and musicians - in exchange for their services and advice.

IMO, using tobacco in a sacred manner, with respect for both oneself and the plant too, does not endanger one's health. The Indians, quite a physically healthy lot compared to the white folk at the time of 'first contact', did not smoke chemically-laden cigarettes just for pleasure until the Europeans arrived. Then the sacred use of be plant began to change to an economic one, and smoking became an addiction rather than a prayer/offering, and the health risks became apparent.

Maybe that was the 'karma' the Europeans earned for introducing the native peoples to deadly alcohol and firearms!

Anyway, again "way to go!" to all you folk who have given up what has become a dangerous - and certainly not 'sacred', habit. And now I'm going out for a smoke. Then I'll stretch out and do my daily half-hour 'power-walking'! Gotta keep those lungs exercised ...

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 03:55 PM

daylia, there are a couple of inherent problems in your stance.

*Smoking 10 or fewer cigarettes a day simply ensures that each cigarette will taste better, imo. It's very difficult to give up something that tastes that good to you. And something that tastes that good to you is a teaser to smoke more of them. (I tried a number of times to cut back; it never worked. Only cold turkey did it for me.)

*A young person's immune system can ward off diseases that older people's faltering systems may not be able to. And when an older person's system is already dealing with heart disease, cancers of various types or high blood pressure, or more, it's another blow to also have to give up something at the same time.

One of the saddest things I have read was by a man who was diagnosed with lung cancer. He said that what amazed him was how easy it was to quit smoking when the damage was already done, and he wondered what on earth made him think quitting was impossible.

I have a brother who smoked very heavily most of his life- 3 or 4 packs of Luckies a DAY. I swear he prided himself on it. Now, he is 70 years old, and in and out of the hospital with emphysema that keeps him from walking 20 steps without having to stop and gasp for breath. 'Tain't purty.

I grew up in a religious household; only my four brothers and I ever smoked. Until I faced the fact that smoking or not smoking was a health issue, not an issue of rebellion, did I start to feel bad about smoking.

Sorry for my rant. But my 'rebellion' button was pushed. For god's sake, rebelling against whom?? Yourself?

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Chip2447
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 04:46 PM

I was one of those who "Quit" about this time two years ago. and fell off the wagon completely (with considerable weight gain) a little over a year later. I am however, gonna give it another go. I just need to determine which comes first quitting cigs and then fighting the REALLY considerable weight gain, or getting the weight under control first. I am smoking about 1/2 of a pack of ultra lights per day, whicn is far better than 1 1/2 packs of full flavor 100's a day that I used to consume. Now, to get rid of 100 pounds.

Chip2447

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Mrs Cobble
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 05:58 PM

Congrats Nutty 2 years already :-)

Its 18months since I gave up , I still miss them and have put on lots of weight. I have the most awful sore throat just now ( can't talk!!!) so glad I don't smoke any more, it would be much worse.

Well done to all who have given up.

Mrs C

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:37 PM

Yeah, Ebbie, the 'rebellion' stance is sure silly from a logical point of view, I agree. But that doesn't make the danged emotions any less real. It's the anti-smoking propaganda that really hits my 'rebellion' buttons ...

I really do resent it, and I'm pretty suspicious about it as well. If the 'powers that be' are truly concerned about people's health, why not plaster dire warnings and horrible pictures all over alcohol products, junk food and gas pumps as well? Those products, and so many others, are just as dangerous to people's health as tobacco, if not more so.

I suspect it's because there has been a powerful anti-tobacco lobby active in Canada for a few decades now whose interests are economic, not social. Tobacco grows on prime, already-cleared farmland in the heartland of Ontario (and central US) that has been coveted by land-hungry developers for many decades. These developers, the real 'engine' behind the anti-smoking lobby, provide a lot more revenue for the government than tobacco taxes. So the tobacco farmers are being forced out of business by the heavy taxes and anti-smoking propoganda, clearing the way for more!!new (ugly) subdivisions and all the revenue generated for the banks and the government by these developments.

Thousands of seasonal workers have lost their jobs in recent years as the tobacco farms are turned into "people-hives". And there is a heavy toll on the environment as well, as the population in these areas explodes. I live near this area, and I've watched it happen. But hey, as long as the rich are happy ...

Oh, and I certainly wasn't recommending cutting down as an alternative to quitting cold turkey. I know cold turkey works best for most people. I'm just happy to have broken the habit of smoking indoors, and grateful to be smoking less.

BTW I think one reason people tend to gain weight when they quit smoking is because nicotine is a stimulant, speeding up the body's metabolism. Without the nicotine, metabolism slows down and your body burns less calories even if your eating habits don't change.

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: mack/misophist
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:45 PM

I quit about eight months ago when I found out I have emphysema. Recently I had a really rotten patch and needed a lift badly. Smoked a whole pack in about two and a half hours. IT WAS WONDERFUL! It gave me something I needed and haven't needed since. Maybe that's what tobacco is for. Quitting again was no problem, by the way. I just stopped.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:49 PM

I've never even thought about smoking ...the thought has always turned my stomach....Its simple folks just use your brains..do you want to waste a fortune to die early...ruin the lungs of all around you...make your clothes your body and breath and everything around you stink foul...have yellow teeth and nicotine stained hands and home fixtures....spend your days coughing and wheezing and suffering panic attacks anytime you are unable to either obtain your drug or indulge your addiction.....Its a vile debased drug..every bit as vile as any of the more satanised hard drugs and is totaly unnecessary to your life...Get wise kick it now or dont even try it...

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: kendall
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 08:08 PM

To Guest smoking yuk, it's easy for a non smoker to give advice, but, it carries little weight with the addicted.
When I quit (after 47 years) 6 years ago Monday next, I weighed 14 stone. Today, I weigh 14 stone.Quitting is only part of the process, you MUST also do some serious behavior modification.
I don't believe that about nicotine speeding up your metabolism; what I think it is, simply that the nicotine was used to fill a void in our psyche, and, when we quit, the handy thing is food. Neither will ever really fill that void, but, our ability to fool ourselves is so powerful that denial is our way of dealing with the addiction.
The only time I crave a smoke is times such as this; I would kill for a weed, but, I know that when I get off this subject, the craving will go away. It really is all in your head.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: nutty
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 02:15 AM

Guest Smoking yuk!!!! My addiction was all connected with rewarding myself (low self-esteem). I'd think "I'll just do this .then I'll sit down and have a cigarette". I've still not found anything that I can substitute for that feeling of relaxation having a cigarette gave me but as Kendall said now the feeling soon goes away.

I congratulate all those who have given up but I thoroughly understand the problems of those who have fallen by the wayside.

My reward now is to have my real voice back .... both in power and tone. The joy of singing songs I love without worrying that I am going to run out of breath. Knowing that I am going to hit that high or low note like I used to 20+ years ago.
'Losing' my voice was a gradual thing .... I never really noticed .... but having it back makes all the 'pain' of the last two years worth while.

This thread is not the place for lectures or snide comments. A smoker meets that everyday in the outside world. There are many of us who felt like Ebbie, when it seemed that the world would tolerate anybody but a smoker.
Addicts to any other form of drug are given an enormous amount of help or support by various agencies .... lets be helpful and supportive here.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: BlueJay
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 03:49 AM

nutty- Good timing. I remember reading, (with envy), your original quit smoking thread. Two years already? How time flies. I recently made the decision to quit, effective on New Years. I'm now 51 Y/O, and the health problems are becoming obvious. Ironically, my decision to quit is based partly on hearing the news that the Colorado Republican Dickhead legislature, in it's infinite wisdom is having budget difficulties due to the economy and pork projects favoring Denver highway development. So they cannot continue using their share of settlement money from the tobacco company lawsuits for it's original purpose, i.e. education. So they are pulling their funding from www.co.quitnet.com, an internet outfit dedicated to helping folks like me to quit smoking. Ah, the sacrifices we must make to provide for the folks in Denver whose SUV's never get out of the city.

Anyway, I visited this online site, and have found the inspiration to at least try and quit smoking on Jan 1. Kat, if Rog has even an inkling of interest in quitting smoking, have him visit www.co.quitnet.com. Sorry, I forget how to do the link. There are discussion forums and many other useful features. Right now it is free, paid for by proceeds from some tobacco lawsuit, but soon this money will be diverted for the greater good of pork.

Maybe Rog will remember me. I'm the skinny guy who used to go in the other room with him and smoke cigs when we all got together in Cheyenne. Maybe having a person he knows just about to give up smoking, and willing to support him any time he wishes will help. Clue him into the site I mentioned. People all over the country are VERY eager to help. They helped me make a firm decision to quit on New Years.



Nutty- thanks again for the fortuitious timing of this thread. It is just one more re-enforcement, and I need all that I can get. Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 04:36 AM

BlueJay, he well remembers you, I am sure! We had such fun there! Thanks so much for the info. I had heard about that site, but didn't even tell him. He is very much a loner when it comes to doing things like that, so I doubt he'll do much, BUT I will tell him about it and about your kind offer. Like I said, though, I am not even sure he wants to quit and I know that has to be for anything to work. Good for you, for making the decision. I'll send you some good thoughts on New Year's!

kat

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: BlueJay
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 06:54 AM

Kat- Thanks. I am quitting on New Year's day. It was a tough decision to make, but I've made it. Pray for me, or whatever it is you do. Come Jan 1, I'm going to need all the help I can get.
Adn if Roger ever does decide to try quitting, he has lots of support.Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Guest Spot
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 10:17 AM

Re - Ciggies. I stopped some years ago but religiously put the saved dosh in the "pot in the garage"!! I run an off-road motorbike and have bought myself a Stelling banjo and a Lowden guitar out of the proceeds!! OK - I put on a bit of weight but my guess is that's a lot safer than emphysema - a word which frightens the life out of me!! It can be a bit tough but well worth it - don't go back on the filthy things!!
                        Regards to all - SPOT

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: kendall
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM

I'm told there is no such thing as an "addictive personality". Some people can drink without becoming a drunk, (I for one) and some can smoke without becoming dependent (not me).
My own experience is all I can speak about, and, simply getting my clinical depression under control was all it took. The patch, the gum and hypnotism just didn't work.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Mark Clark
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 12:14 PM

Way to go, Nutty!

I'm not as smart as Dick. I didn't quit until 1972 when I had severe chronic bronchitis and lay barely concious with high fever for three straight days. When I woke up I started to reach for a smoke and suddenly realized I was already three days into quitting. I decided right then that I was a non-smoker and never looked back. Best decision I ever made.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 05:35 PM

One thing I forget to mention in my previous post was the little talked about innocent deaths of children and adults from housefires caused about through the criminal stupidity of smokers....I dont have any official statistics to hand but i'd dare suggest a good 50% of housefires are the direct result of smoking accidents...Cancer is always the bogeyman put forward in all the anti smoking campaigns,but surely the unnecessary deaths of the completely innocent must take precedant over the self inflicted deaths of the self destructive self decievers who continue posioning themselves against all the vast torrent of established medical knowledge of the 21st century....Sorry but an addictive personality is no excuse for the needless tragic death of innocents perpetuated on a daily basis all over the world by this odious habit..

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 06:13 PM

GUEST, Smoking yuk I don't know any humans who don't have "addictive personalities". Seems to me everyone is 'addicted' to something - air and water and food and exercise, for example.

Some of us are addicted to 'political correctness', especially the part where we are permitted to insult/attack/hate/scapegoat certain of our neighbours without sanction - be they Jews or blacks or gays or, most currently, smokers.

Being 'politically correct' means one believes everything one is told about the 'target' people or issue is true, without question. This spares one the bother of THINKING creatively or conducting one's own 'investigation' into the facts of the matter.

It's so easy to get addicted to the hormonal chemical cocktail that strong emotions like hatred and anger produce. It's a real buzz to hate thy neighbour, if one likes that kind of thing. I've heard it's a very hard habit to break. Especially cold turkey.

Good luck with that if you ever decide to quit, Guest Fuming! YUK!!!

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 09:38 PM

I gave up for three and a half years then like a plonker started again. I now smoke 3 medium cigars per day. Only smoke after 8 P.M. at night.

I gained 30 Lbs over the three years but have lost it all now. With having gained some control over nicotine however I agree that it damages my health and even at just three a day it does affect my breathing. My voice (such as it is) is definately better with light smoking (don't ask me why , It just sounds a little richer) but I intend to reduce it to one per day over the next six months and then go back to being a non smoker. (and bugger the rich voice).

Congratulations Nutty but always be on your guard and don't do the silly trick I did.

Spot (the beagle)

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Mrs Cobble
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 09:41 PM

Too true daylia.

I gave up smoking for me, I may have given up sooner but I resent being told by the likes of YUK Guest that I can't smoke. I don't smoke now but I still think people who do should have the right to smoke or not. There should be smoking areas and non smoking areas too!

Mrs C

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 01:49 AM

There are, unfortunately the businesses, etc. who place them usually make it so that non-smokers have to walk through all of the smoking area. The worst case I saw of this was when I went to my oxygen company to get new equipment. The same building had a huge telemarketing firm in it. The only place those employees were allowed to smoke was at the front entrance. They took breaks in droves and they all smoked. It seemed strangely absurd and not a little surreal to walk through them with my O2 on. They were belligerent and rude.

Not all people who try to be sensitive/ethically correct follow the "PC" thing blindly. We do think for ourselves; we just prefer treating others kindly if we can, and yes, that includes smokers up to the point their smoke invades my space or that of my grandkids!*bg*

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Terry K
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 02:45 AM

Nutty, yours is a heartwarming success story - well done!

I quit in 1976 but still get a real kick out of having done so; it's one of the most rewarding things I ever did. If I'd known how rewarding it would be, I'm sure I would have quit much earlier but that's something you simply can't get across to those who still smoke.

Incidentally, I don't believe the weight gain is necessarily a bodily response to quitting - I just enjoy food and drink too much! My advice on that FWIW would be to have a blood test and see if your blood sugar level is high - a great incentive to lose a little weight.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 05:41 AM

The issues I have raised are neither an attempt at political correctness or any form of hate campaign against smokers...I grew up in a house where both my parents were heavy smokers,but they were of an older generation who grew up before all the facts were made freely available on smoking....I am partial to a drink..being of Irish descent that is virtualy in my blood,but let me assure you my drinking is never allowed to affect the lives of anybody else..because I may have spent an evening in the pub (a rare event these days) I do not come home falling over everywhere puking or bash anybody up...if I have a skinful I get myself to bed qiutely and sleep it off...however whilst i'm in the pub I have to endure a whole evening of being emersed in other peoples smoke by the time I get home my clothes and body reek of tobbaco and my breathing is affected by inhaling second hand smoke to the degree that by the morning I'll be coughing up black tar the product of what should surely be a safe clean enjoyable evening out alas not so with the hazard of tobbaco fumes to contend with.....

As Kat laughing pointed out what about all those freethinking non politicaly correct smokers who selfishly insist in standing in the entrances and exits of buildings including hospitals inflicting their smoke on every passer by young and old with all the pathetic maniacal self centredness of some heroin addict shooting up in some seedy little doorway...Is it realy politicaly correct to raise the issue of the underlying cause for very many fatal housefires..if one innocent child or adult dies in a smoking related incident a year that is surely one too many,but let me assure you that every day around the world hundreds of innocents die as a result of this stupid unnecessary blind addiction,and lets not be absurd water and air and food are the staple requirements of continued survival so please get real all those who absurdly beleve our need for these to be some sort of addiction....

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: kendall
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 08:26 AM

While I mostly agree with yuk,a bit of advice, Tact is only noticed when it's missing.When you piss someone off, they stop listening.

Some places that allow smoking also have "smoke eaters" that seem to help, and, of course, an exhaust fan is even better.

Let's face it, smokers and non smokers will never mix no matter what. As someone said, "A smoking section in a restaurant is like a peeing section in a swimming pool".

No one has any right to try to stop someone from smoking, but, their right to blow smoke stops where my nose starts. I know some smokers, and, they are intelligent, considerate good folks. So, let's not tar them all with the same brush.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,paddymac
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 10:25 AM

I escaped the habit 28 years ago. The biggest "immediate" change in my life was that I had to quit going to bars because the smopke made me physically ill - s vefy strong allergic reaction. There may well have been a psychological element in that as well. I have never had a desire for another cigaret, especially, or to use any other tobacco product. However, to this day, I love the side-smoke from somebody else's good cigar, or a good pipe. I'd much rather spend the money on a few more pints.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 11:22 AM

Mrs. Cobble - thanks for your kindness and for speaking your truth. Healthy blessings to you.

I've smoked for 30-odd years of my 40-odd years of life. This is a most unpopular - even dangerous - stance right now, but in spite of what we are all told is true about tobacco, the following is the truth as far as MY life is concerned.

I am hardly ever sick - always been healthy. I exercise regularly - outdoors mostly, in the fresh air. I have known - and seen - many MANY people who lived to a ripe healthy old age having smoked all their lives. My own grandfather being one of them. I've never known anyone who died, or who got cancer, from smoking, and I've known a lot of smokers. But I've sure watched a lot go under from drinking and obesity. I'd rather make decisions based on the truth I see around me, and in me, than what others try to convince me is true.

I do not have sore throats or allergies or asthma or bronchitis or coughing fits. Never did.

My teeth are not yellow and neither are my fingers. Even if they were, how does that harm anyone?

My clothes and hair and home do not stink, because I smoke only outdoors now. Have for the last couple years. And I like using breath mints after I smoke. Can't stand the taste - or smell - of stale tobacco smoke.

I love fresh air and I can't stand second-hand smoke. I never use 'smoking areas' - they are much too smelly and crowded. I prefer to go for walks - alone - when I smoke. Gives me time to clear my mind and think a bit. Maybe even send a few prayers up into the ethers.

I never smoke around children or around non-smokers. I've quit a couple times and I know how awful the smoke is to a non-smoker.

Yes, I've spent a lot of money on tobacco over the years, but certainly no 'fortune'. I don't drink alcohol - really makes me sick, even one drink. I figure that more than makes up for it.

I do know of a young couple who died in a house-fire, started by a cigarette, many years ago. They were both very drunk the night of the tragedy, and had passed out after a long alcohol-induced fight. No innocent victims were involved. Those two paid a high price for their drunkenness and carelessness.

Yes, I know what tobacco-cravings are like. They are very similiar to the craving for air, water, food, sleep, exercise, MUSIC!!(my personal favourite), alcohol, good company, mental stimulation, video games, sex, coffee, TV, chocolate, attention, power-and-control over others - whatever turns different people on. To have an "addictive personality" is to be a human being. Some things we crave are physical necessities - like air and water and food, and some are personal choices - like music or sex or tobacco or hating others. But all are, IMO - "addictions" and we NEED our addictions for survival and for self-development.

I do know that the motives behind the anti-smoking propoganda campaigns are political and economic, not public health (see my post above re the demise of the tobacco farms). I've watched this happen for years, and I refuse to deny the evidence of my own eyes.

And I do know the power of suggestion. When people are told, day after day that they are going to get this or that disease, it's pretty guaranteed that a lot of them eventually will. That is Psychology 101. We create our everyday realities based on what we BELIEVE is true, believe it or not. To bombard people with frightening, negative and unsubstantiated propoganda, especially regarding their personal health, is IMO truly 'criminal'. But it does pay off for the rich and powerful. And disease IS big business, in Canada. How many people - and chemical/drug companies, would be out of work if no-one got sick? Gotta keep those 'suckers' rollin in!

For every clinical study claiming a causal relationship between smoking and various illnesses (sponsored by the anti-smoking lobby) there is one claiming exactly the opposite (sponsored by the tobacco industry). We just never hear about the latter. Big Brother knows what's best for us, after all! And most people can't be bothered looking them up. Much easier to let someone else tell us what to think and believe. Even if what they are telling you is biased and dangerous to your mind and to your health. So put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!

Anyway, I repeat I am in no way encouraging anyone to start or continue smoking. I like to hear people feel good about themselves for quitting, and I know it is a health requirement for some. But not for all. We are all different, physically and otherwise.

I know if and when I decide to put tobacco down for good, it will be FOR REASONS OF MY OWN, not in response to propoganda or the ill-thought-out rantings of hateful 'politically-correct' non-smokers. And it will be easy for me. I AM in charge of my mind and my life, and as long as I love myself everything in my life works in divine right order. Because I choose to make it so.

I'm most grateful to Mudcat for this opportunity to express these 'politically incorrect' feelings and opinions. They've been bottled up inside for a long time now.

Peace and love to you all.

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 07:24 PM

Guest Daylia I suppose you've never met anyone who practises self delusion either....You must surely be sponsoured by the pro tobbaco lobby or your living on a different planet to that which I know..I accept you and your dear old grandpappy (he was never sick once in his life til he died of lung cancer at 25 ha ha)are medical miracles...based upon this report we can stop cleaning our chimneys the effects of smoke cannot be proven to block them...sounds like cloud cuckoo land to me...Anyway at least theres one of us who thinks he's immortal it must be a happy existence ha ha...

Well done Kendall for your mention of the following, "A smoking section in a restaurant is like a peeing section in a swimming pool". ha ha
This wonderful and oh so true comparison made me laugh to myself out loud ha ha..Alas fans and smoke eaters do not solve the problem of passive smoking...they are just an attempt at avoiding the only realistic solution to this very realistic threat to the health of all subjected to second hand tobbaco smoke...they are certainly no solution to hazards from fire presented by smoking.....

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,ballpienhammer
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 07:48 PM

Quit June 4, 1998. Have touched none since. Funnily enough, 1999 I was diagnosed with Asthma. Strange, perhaps the tars and nicotine kept it at bay for 25 years? Any way I haven't gained much weight, food tastes better and the s.o. is much happier. I don't miss it at all. Daylia,
just pu'em down and walk away from the crutch! YOU CAN DO IT! DO NOT question yourself as the IF you can quit. You will make yourself neurotic! Just stop. your friend bph

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 08:40 PM

Congratulations nutty. It's harder to stay quit than to do it in the first place IMO. Once the cravings wear off, the feeling of "just one" being dangerous goes, and we humans can justify about
anything. You wonder what smoking one would be like and it really only takes one to re-awaken the cravings.

Dear BPHammer - I think you got it - you can't say "I'll try." It's like going on a dry drunk and quit only for 'now'. You set yourself up to fail.

As to the asthma, I'm just speculating, but smoking suppresses the immune system, Asthma or any allergic response is due to a hyperactive immune system so it doesn't seem inconceivable that smoking was supressing the reaction. My throat gets sore more than it did when I smoked. It's not that the irritation's greater - it's because nerves aren't being constantly killed and I can feel it.

Has anyone had dreams that they were smoking and woke up in a panic because they weren't supposed to be smoking?

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 08:51 PM

bph thank you. When I quit before - many years ago - I didn't miss it at all. When I get below about six/day they start to make me feel dizzy and nauseous like they did when I first started as a little kid. Then it's easy for me to quit - I don't want them at all.

Peace

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 01:25 PM

Oh, and I'd like to mention that, in my opinion, the 'scientific evidence' about smoking presented by BOTH the anti-smoking lobby AND the tobacco industry are questionable. Both sides have a huge vested (economic) interest in the matter, making it most likely that the studies either pro or against are biased and incomplete.

So I prefer to make decisions based on the facts of my own life experiences, knowing that these facts are NOT applicable to everyone else. We are all different. And if that makes me appear 'neurotic' or 'self-delusional' then so be it.

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

Im glad I quit. Im better off finantially and my asthma has improved loads. You cant preach to a smoker about quitting, they will quit if and when they want to.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Raptor
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 04:04 PM

I quit 9 months ago and its going well!

I know Dayla and can say that she is extremly healthy and looks about 20 years old!

And I heard the the only 2nd hand smoke study conducted was in China in the seventies where Ladies didn't smoke but the men did and they had the same cancer rate. The problem was that the ladies were all closet smokers cauze it was socialy unacceptable and they smoked more!

Cancer comes from many different causes but people blame smoke!

SMOKING YUK likes to drink and thats harmless, but smokers burn down houses!

I wonder the stats on smoking and driving fatalities VS drinking and driving!

Raptor

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Cobble
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 04:33 PM

Daylia.... most of us are aware of the dangers of smoking but we should beable to make up our own mind to smoke or not. drink kills as many people as smoking, many folks are killed crossing the road. What happened to "It's a free country" ? What with "Fashion" police, 'Fat' police. In Scotland parents can't film their children in the School nativity play because paedophiles might get high on the film, I could go on....

Sorry nutty I have trolled your thread.

Mrs C

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 04:44 PM

Some of this is kind of silly, imo. Raptor: "The problem was that the ladies were all closet smokers cauze it was socialy unacceptable and they smoked more!"? I'm sure they were able to get an accurate numbers account for the 'ladies'?

My mother had a cousin who was a closet smoker- and she smoked a WHOLE lot less than most smokers- if you can't smoke in front of others, how often are you able to light up?

And you don't need 'scientific' studies to ascertain whether smoking causes/contributes to coughing/chest congestion or just plain bad smells.

If you want to smoke, go ahead; no one's stopping you. But convincing others that you are in control of it ? Nah. It don' flah.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 06:17 PM

Of course drink driving is a problem,but its a problem recognised by most civilised countries legal systems as such...Drinking alcahol short of slurping your beer doesnt immerse everybody around you in an odious sticky sludge that damages the respiratory systems of every person within range of the fumes...I can qiute happily drink a glass of wine without being a health hazard to anybody around me or infringing their airspace...the inbibing of liquid alcaholic or not is part of the basic machinations of the survival process...the inbibing of smoke into the lungs is surely the reverse,surely it is the machinations of a self destructive process..

Smokers who seem to try by throwing up red herrings to try to blur the issue,but alas the results of nicotine addiction are plain to see to even the least trained unscientific eye..

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 06:29 PM

Hopefully the longer this thread gets the less smoke we will experience in singarounds etc which can't be all bad.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 09:40 AM

If you drive, YOU POLLUTE!

Get off your high horse!

Smoking is an addiction that some of us took up before it was know to be bad!

None of us are saying it is good for you!

But a lot of people here are Quoting studies that none of us have actualy studied The best we can say is "I've Read that second hand smoke is bad"

I"VE READ THE MOON IS MADE OF GREEN CHEESE!

Why is it o.k. for you to polute A LOT with a car,truck,suv. and then bitch about the minute amount of smoke Dayla releases into the outside air?

Are you addicted to not riding a bike, or choosing to find a job within walking distance?

Raptor

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 11:41 AM

Raptor - I luv ya, my friend! :-)

THAT'S SO AWESOME that you've quit for nine months now! WAY TO GO !!!
(cheers ... applause ... cheers ... applause ...)

I'm SO impressed - and inspired! If you can do it, I can do it ...

There's so many good reasons to quit, and the truth is I want to but I'm scared of the STRESS ... I'd like to have more money in my pocket, to be free of the constant need to clear my throat, to maybe be able to sing those high notes again, and most of all not to CARE anymore about all the politics and propoganda...I'd much rather spend my mental/emotional energy on things I really like, like creating music with GOOD PEOPLE (raptors included of course!)

Egads, I've almost talked myself into it now! Maybe I could try using an affirmation, like this ...

"I now choose to release my old friend Tobacco with EASE, with LOVE, and with GRATITUDE for all the good times we've shared and the lessons I've learned. I AM in charge of my mind and my life!! It is EASY for me to totally release anything from my life that I choose to release.
I now choose to love and enjoy myself, and to BREATHE EASY..."

Probably have to shorten that up a bit ... something to say to myself over and over when I'm craving a smoke. IF I crave it at all (miracles do happen!!)

Thanks for the inspiration, Raptor, and thank you too everyone who posted above. Including Smokingyuk, for helping me exercise my 'love-thy-neighbour' faculties.

Ooooo, I'm scared ... am I REALLY going to do this ????

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Raptor
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 11:53 AM

Dayla

Call me If you need to!

You have more friends in Simcoe County than you know. And we'd all like to help!

Quiting is worth the agro of withdrawl!

Good luck and Love

Raptor

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 12:00 PM

I gave up smoking after reading really scary stuff about the theories as to exactly HOW it could give you cancer - somehow it seemed more real than "it just does". Never fancied a fag since (well except for the very occasional O.P.).
I've just applied the same technique to drinking (which I do [I mean did] to excess). Having read about the details of HOW it nackers your liver etc, I haven't fancied a drink all week.
If you don't do these things to excess (or are willing to take the risks) then I think there's no real desperate need to quit - but if you know you are doing yourself some damage then the "frighten yourself shitless" approach is worth a try.
Good luck to all change-makers.
ANd specially good luck to you nutty. Keep it up!

Kris

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 12:03 PM

Raptor, thank you! I'm going to join Mudcat as a member now, so I can PM you and all the other wonderful cats I've met here ...

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 12:25 PM

Congratulations Nutty. I never really got into the smoking habit and kicked it easily at 16 when I realised that I didn't have enough money to smoke and run a motorbike - in hindesight, smoking was probably the safer activity at that age.

I'm sure that you've noticed some positive things in giving up. One of my mates reckoned that the reason he put on weight was that food tasted so much better after he'd quit. Another friend became much more fussy about which beers he drank - because "they didn't all taste the same anymore". Then of course it must be an improvement not to smell like an old bonfire all the time.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: nutty
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 01:12 PM

go for it Daylia ......become a mudcat member and start a thread of your own ....... this commits you to stating your intentions and lets people directly support you.

Use the thread to verbalise your feelings ......I posted more when I was feeling bad than when I was feeling good.

I used Mudcat to help me break the smoking habit ....... Coming on the computer at times when I would normally sit down and have a cigarette ....OK - I got hooked on Mudcat but that didn't seem a bad thing.

Use the Personal messages and Mudchat (you can use the chat site when you become a member) to communicate directly with your supporters and please count me as one.

Prepare yourself .....get angry ...... find something that you want but can't afford ( my aim was to have two dogs. When I got the second I then couldn't afford to start smoking again)

Most of all good luck and remember .....you are doing this for yourself not for anyone else and if you weaken it's no great problem just try again.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: *daylia*
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 02:23 PM

Nutty thank you so much for the good ideas and the support. I've let the 'rebellious' feelings re propoganda and the preaching of non-smokers (well-intentioned though, I guess) interfere with this decision for too long. But right now I just can't believe how weepy I'm feeling. I've loved my 'friend' Tobacco for so long.

Maybe it's like finally walking away from an abusive mate or something.

I better go before I drench this stupid (sorry, not stupid) keyboard. I have enough trouble getting it ti do what I want it to.

And CONGRATULATIONS for your two years smoke-free! And bless you for starting this thread. It just may change my life.

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 05:47 PM

Actualy I dont drive and I do cycle nearly everywhere I go even at my advanced age of 42....

There is no doubt about it...the indiscrminate use of the automobile and the abandoning of rail and water based transport in favour of gas guzzling polluting road transportation and the unneccesary transporting of materials and livestock to satisfy greedy corporate needs are nothing short of a crime against the very eco system we depend upon.....But dare I say it to link nicotine addiction with an undoubted need and desire by folks to be more mobile is stretching the tenuous to the ridiculous....Living as I do in crowded over populated London cycling realy is the only option whilst i'm still able to get about under my own steam due largely to the callous exploitation of residential property prices by all the industries concerned with this matter and a hierachical political system that knows that perpetuation of enormously inflated property prices makes for a much more passive workforce who's energies are largely exhausted just running to keep up with trying to pay their mortgages whilst having to navigate the artificialy congested road and public transport systems due to not being able to afford to live anywhere near their place of work..Its a crazy crazy system almost designed to drive you to want to start smoking to calm ones nerves ha ha..

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: nutty
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 06:13 PM

You cycle to work in London and you are worried about passive smoking...................
I'd say that that was the least of your problems.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 07:11 PM

daylia, I remember how weepy and angry I was for several weeks after I quit. All I could hope for was the rapid passage of time when it would be easier... What got me to quit was when I finally realized that the fact that it would be difficult to do wasn't the point- the point was that I didn't want to be a smoker anymore. (I still wanted to smoke, though! What I really wanted was to sit down and light up in celebrating that I had quit smoking. Go figure.)

It DOES get better, and quite quickly too.

My brother with emphysema told me on the phone just yesterday that regardless of the shape he ended up in, he really had enjoyed smoking, but decided that it really hasn't been worth it.

Nutty has a good thought there: If you find that you've gone 'off the wagon, so to speak, no big deal; just get back on. One of my brothers had quit for almost a year then smoked for seven months, quit for good next time- and it's been almost 30 years for him.

The best of luck to you.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 07:23 PM

Alas Nutty until the matter transporter is perfected there isnt much choice....You sound like yet another smoker in denial....

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 08:33 PM

Yuk, you're not paying attention.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 09:25 PM

Remember: Do NOT fret as to WHETHER or not you can do it! That worry and indecision will keep you lit up. Your mind will turn it into a reason to continue smoking. NIKE: JUST DO IT! bph

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 04:23 AM

Good for you, daylia and nice to see you as a member, now!

Just a thought: maybe take your affirmation a step further and make it a thanksgiving, i.e. thank the Great Spirit/Divine Order/or whatever you believe in, that you are healthy and free from smoking. Give thanks to tobacco and honour it with a kind of letting-go.

Then, end it with the caveat, "I ask for this or something better for the highest good of all concerned." That way you can be open to all of the infinite possibilities, of divine order as you call it, which can lead you through this wonderful transition. In my belief, when I do this, I am leaving it up the the god of my heart/Great Spirit to decide the best way for me to achieve something and to guide me, as long as I am open to receiving. Just a thought.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Raptor
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:24 AM

The key to quiting for me was to realize that I can never have "just one more Cig".

Chewing carrats helps too!

Raptor

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 10:58 AM

Ebbie - thank you. It's a relief to know that feeling so :-( is a natural thing, and that it will get better. I thought I must be really bonkers or something. Last time I quit was 20 years ago and I don't remember being depressed, just aggravated. It was when I got arrested - for something I didn't do - a few months later that I broke down under the strain and stress and started smoking again. The charge was dismissed, but dammit I've never tried to quit again since.

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother's emphysema. And to hear about how Smokingyuk grew up in a house with parents who smoked heavily and didn't respect his need to breathe fresh air. No wonder the poor soul hates it so much! And to be riding a bike every day through the London smog, then spending time in a smoky pub - that's probably why you cough up black tar, bud.

If I WAS sick this would probably be so much easier. And that's one of the DUMBEST-sounding things I've every heard, but it's true. I know I'm not getting any younger. Raptor hasn't seen me in a few years and I've sprouted a few gray hairs since then!

It was reading what someone said above that it wasn't till around age 50 or so that the damage became apparent that really got me thinking. That's not too far off for me now, and I'd like to be around to see my grandkids, if I ever have any. My sons are not as prolific as I was - thank god/dess!

Kat - those are wonderful ideas!! :-) I'll take them into meditation this morning. I do need to honour Tobacco for what it is - a ceremonial sacred herb. I need to let it go with love and gratitude and respect - I've been practicing native ways for a long time now.

I really do believe that if people used it in a 'sacred' manner, for prayer and offerings, with respect for both self and the plant (AND the fire which burns it), there would be no health risks. The Indians grew and used tobacco for thousands of years with no health problems. But they lived in dwellings equipped with SMOKE-HOLES in the roofs, not only to vent the ceremonial smoke but the open fires for cooking and heating. And they sure didn't smoke all day long - who needs to pray constantly? They had a healthy, active lifestyle too - spending most of their time doing strenuous physical activities outdoors in the fresh air.

One thing I find intriguing is that the Indians carried tobacco leaves ( and other 'totem' items )in their "medicine pouches" - small decorative bags made of hides and worn under the clothes next to the skin. Their Tobacco WAS tobacco, not the chemically-laden stuff that they make cigarettes out of today - so it was pretty potent stuff. Seems to me that the nicotine in the tobacco leaves must leach through the leather pouches and be absorbed through the skin, like those nicotine patches some people use to help quitting. So they could have the stimulating effects of nicotine (and it IS a stimulant) WITHOUT smoking.

I might just make me one of those - in ceremony - if I can find some REAL tobacco leaves. That way I could honour Tobacco for what it is AND possibly reduce the cravings at the same time. Even just holding it in my hands would be soothing cause I like the feel of soft leather...and I could breathe out prayers of gratitude at the same time - WITHOUT smoking. Hmmmmmmm ...

Anyway, just like Raptor and bph said above, I know that even ONE cig is too much if I'm serious about quitting. I still have most of the last carton of smokes I bought last week in the frig (along with a pack of PRETTY lighters, dammit). I plan to make a medicine pouch for a Christmas present to myself, and to keep the smokes until then so I don't get too miserable. (At least I know I can have one if things get really bad, until I get my "medicine" together). Then, on Christmas day I'll give the rest away to the smokers I know - and the lighters too. And it will be the BEST Christmas present I've ever given to myself!!!

Thanks to all you Mudcatters for your understanding and support and inspiration. Healthy, happy Blessings to you all! I send out gratitude in Four Directions ...

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 11:10 AM

daylia, my heart is full of happiness in reading your words of such self-honesty and sharing. It takes a lot of courage to let go of an old rebellious way and move onto a positive road, esp. admitting it publically.

I agree with you about if people used tobacco in a sacred way. I use it in prayer pouches, along with corn meal, at full moon with a sacred fire.

kat

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 12:00 PM

Ahhh, Kat, and it's a full moon tonight! I'm going to go now to my friends' "spiritual medicine shoppe" and see if she has any ceremonial Tobacco left from the plants she grew last summer (under threat of being arrested, by the way. That's how bad the campaign against the plant is getting where I live). If she does, I'll be stitching deerskin under the Full Moon tonight - and even if she doesn't maybe regular tobacco will do till I can find some ...

Blessed Be

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 01:51 PM

"I really do believe that if people used it in a 'sacred' manner, for prayer and offerings, with respect for both self and the plant (AND the fire which burns it), there would be no health risks". I agree.

There is a local Tlingit medicine man (who is also Roman Catholic) who does cleansings and other rites. He always cleanses the air and the people with tobacco and sage and sweet grasses before he begins the ceremony. And you pay him with tobacco, never with money.

He doesn't smoke.

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: *daylia*
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 03:28 PM

Beautiful, Ebbie! One does not have to give up Tobacco to give up smoking! And thanks for mentioning that tobacco is used with other herbs as a cleansing 'smudge'. Seems ironic, doesn't it.

Raptor just reminded me on the phone that my money actually PAYS for that propoganda I take such exception too when I buy commercial cigarettes. Now that's the ULTIMATE stupidity!!! My buck stops HERE, right now!!

daylia

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 03:46 PM

I believe, in my conspiracy-minded way, they must add something extremely addictive to the tobacco in cigarettes (not that the tobacco isn't addictive enough on its own). What is it about cigarettes that makes some smokers even get up in the middle of the night for a smoke?

Because all the cigar and pipe smokers I know, (who don't smoke cigs too) are happy enough with lighting up only once or twice a day, or even a few times a week. They don't have to have a nic-fix every half-hour or 20 minutes.

(Good thing too, since, though a cigar tastes better than a cigarette, IMO, they sure do reek. Not many folks object to the odour of pipe smoke though)

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Smoking yuk !!!!!
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 06:33 PM

Isnt all this getting a wee bit narcisic...Just use your brains quit smoking before your body quits on you.....it needs to be done and theres no two ways about it..dont go giving your coffin nails away destroy them before they destroy anybody elses physical health and peace of mind...Jesus Wepps this smoking is a curse....

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 07:57 PM

...8-)

Subject: RE: No Smoking-2years on
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 06:10 PM

Yuk, dude.... Despite any findings or facts of science, science also shows that the sensible-seeming things we do to reduce risks paradoxically don't wind up reducing risks generally or saving lives, or preventing much in the end. This is because of something called risk homeostasis. And another thing called mortality. Now science can't prove mortality generally, until all the results are in, and science is based on a principle of cause and effect, which can't be tested--one would have to start at the beginning of time and test until the end of time--but loudmouthed proponents of conventional wisdom often have short attention spans. You'd think they'd want to smoke ha ha.

Why do people keep trying to derive moral notions from science? It's just a technique. It's horrid, insensible, and you end up like people blaming gay behavior for AIDS--is there a causal connection, sure, sometimes, and does it invite you to sit up on the creator's shoulder when judgements are handed down? sure, at risk of something that might matter, I don't know. Are you making sense? well, yes, when it's easy to, which reveals something about you. Are you worth listening to? No. You're drunk with a little information that's been spelled out for you, and like a drunk, keep saying the same thing with ever-renewed emphasis and tones of self-congratulations. No offense about drinking, I'm talking about something else. I drink, much as you say you do. Or much more irresponsibly, if you'd prefer. But I'd sooner shoot myself in the head than go through life squabbling about whose choices are going to make points with the Teacher. Mine are worse, you win, go screw yourself.

I don't deny anything about the dangers of smoking, am not in denial, I bet it's worse than anyone thinks, but I find it childish in an extreme way way for people to look at longevity as a report card for one's choices. How did everyone get that a longer life is a better life? I stayed home that day sniffing glue. How can we shake our heads, so knowingly, at a seventy year old man who is out of breath, the poor fool. For the sake of something or other--I don't know the man, I hope he had a beautiful life and dies the same way, whether by cancer, bus fumes, or garage-door opener, as a friend of mine did. Or maybe he "died of cancer at twenty five, ha ha." Listen to yourself. You sound like an alcoholic I know very very well who quit drinking years ago. Turned out it wasn't the problem, he had just turned his simple mean-spiritedness against himself after he made a mistake, and drank to deal with it. Addictive personalities. Health risks. Yuk.