Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)
From: AmyLove
Date: 19 Dec 15 - 06:30 PM

I'm really enjoying both the Joyce books.

I'm more interested in singing songs that were written in Irish. I've been reading a lot of Irish literature (in English, but as you know, Irish words pop up throughout) and I want to be able to pronounce the words correctly. Singing in Irish is a fun way to improve my pronunciation. Plus, as I've learned, it's fun for its own sake. I've mostly been singing songs in the sean-nós style, particularly the ones where the singers sing really slowly - that slow pace and the lack of musical accompaniment make it a lot easier for me to hear the words clearly and thus pronounce them with some degree of accuracy.

Thank you. I'm a big fan of archive.org - I've done many searches and bookmarked many of the online books - but I prefer to read actual books.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Dec 15 - 03:54 PM

Incidentally, you can download Joyce's book at archive.org:

Click here

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Dec 15 - 03:44 PM

Joyce's "English as We Speak it in Ireland" is one of my favourite books!

Regards

p.s. May I ask why you are so keen to sing songs translated into Irish?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)
From: AmyLove
Date: 19 Dec 15 - 01:44 PM

Martin, thank you for your help. It led to my finding a number of useful things:

On itma I found Old Irish Folk Music and Songs: Part IV Pigot Collection by P W Joyce. (Side note: I have been exploring Joyce. I'm currently reading English as We Speak It in Ireland and A Child's History of Ireland -- I am so thrilled to have found a copy of this 100-year-old book in excellent condition.)

I found an online copy of Kingston Irish Slow Session Tune Book. The site had it at two locations: here and here

Info about the tune of Na Leanbhaí i mBeithil at The Traditional Tune Archive
here

Some biographical information about Liam de Noraidh here

Soon after I started thinking the tune of Na Leanbhaí i mBeithil sounded familiar I discovered that this song is also known as A Leanbh Ghil Mhilis, which I've already sung. I made that discovery here

Well, it's all part of the singing in Irish adventure. I'm sticking with singing Christmas songs till Christmas day, but I confess there will be an element of relief when I go back to simply singing songs in Irish without the additional Christmas song criteria.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Dec 15 - 12:14 PM

The Irish Traditional Music Archive catalogue (www.itma.ie and follow your nose...) notes several copies of sheet music with arrangement by de Noraidh. Not yet available online, at first glance. Also notes Mary O'Hara's version, on several CD's etc.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)
From: AmyLove
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 05:10 PM

Oh, and Mary O'Hara sang Na Leanbhaí i mBeithil, in case that's any help:
Na Leanbhaí i mBeithil

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)
From: AmyLove
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 05:05 PM

Na Leanbhaí i mBeithil is mentioned in this thread. I'm wondering if anyone has the lyrics in Irish. It looks like Liam de Noraidh was a or the collector of this song. I see there's a book: Liam de Noraidh's Complete Collection of Irish Folk Songs and Melodies, Together with a Guide which Lists Oriental Traits of the Corpus, Both Established and Suggested. I'm pretty sure it is included in that book, in case anyone here happens to have it. Thanks so much.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Wexford Carol (in Irish)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 15 Dec 11 - 08:17 AM

And a modern, broadsheet style copy of the dots:

Click here

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: MartinRyan
Date: 06 Dec 11 - 04:54 AM

Nice version of "The Wexford Carol" on carillion:

Click here

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,^&*
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM

Hi GUEST,paws

If you're referring to the "Enniscorthy Carol" (Good people all etc.), you'll find the leagan Gaeilge/Irish version is the translation.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,paws
Date: 29 Nov 10 - 02:27 PM

it was in irish. i'm not sure but i'm quite certain it's in irish first..
i lerarned it in school and cant find it in irish!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 01:04 PM

This weekend, I got round to looking up pilibín in the old dictionarY. Was pleased to find it confirmed my hazy recollection that the word means plover, which seems like an inoffensive term of endearment...

Then I read on through the other meanings.

Ahem!

When I was a little boy in short pants learning Irish we didn't even know that there were words for that sort of thing (blushes) in Patrick Pearse's hallowed language of choice.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 08:02 AM

Last guest was mise gan briosca ;)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 07:55 AM

OK, Flipster. I'd better look it up in the dictionary, it's been over thirty years since my last Irish class, maybe I misremembered.

Púca, I'll start a thread on la/de Belgian connection.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 02:47 PM

Please don't call me Pilbín!
~ Felipa

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,An Púca
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 10:32 AM

A Phluiméir agus a Philbín a chairde

If the carol is to be sung in Louvain or if you're looking for a Belgian-Irish connection, might I suggest (getting very far away from the title of this thread) "Dia do bheatha a Naoidhe Naoimh" which was written in the early 17th C. by Aodh Mac Aingil who was in charge of theology and philosophy when the Irish college was first founded there.

I don't know how to start threads or connect them (very impressive needlework from a plumber!) but if someone were to start a thread under the title of the above, I'll go look for the words in my boxes - plumbers any good at shelving? - and post them there along with any references I find to the music or recordings.

I would guess that the Pilbín might find references in the Catalóg Ceoil which she mentions.

Is the new thread to be titled Irish Language Belgian Carol?

The first line is probably rendered "Dia do bheatha a naí naoimh" in contemporary orthography and as far as I recall, there may have been a reversioning of the words which gave it as "Dia do bheatha a naí anocht" - naí being the final stressed syllable in the line so that the change of vowel sound in the final syllable does not upset rhyme to Irish sensibilities.

If I see a new thread created, I'll know it is of interest and dig out the text etc.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 09:41 AM

Just spotted your second post, Philippa, which largely pre-empts anything that I might have started on the other thread, so we may as well continue the discussion here, and posterity and search engines be damned.

I checked out the two transcriptions of "Don oíche úd" that you kindly pointed me towards, and the choirmaster is quite interested in including it in the repertoire for next year. He would even contemplate doing a four-part arrangement if we can't find an off-the-peg one. He's British (nobody's perfect) but he seems to be sensitive to modal music (I hadn't even noticed the absence of a key signature!), so we might be able to come up with something. If we do, I'll certainly make it available here. First I would need to resolve the differences between the two transcriptions and relate the notes closely to the words. I would also need to do a phonetic transcription.

BTW, the token Irish piece that the Christmas choir has been using is a truncated version of "Bí a Íosa", translated into English. A similar scratch choir from the Irish community in Brussels has performed the Irish version of it a number of times for the annual St Patrick's Day Mass in the Irish Franciscan College in Louvain over the years, and we have also done "Dia do Bheatha" there.

The remainder of the College, including the chapel with its magical acoustics (even we sound good there!) has just been leased to the Irish Government, and the Board of Works will carry out restoration work before making it available to the Irish Institute, now known as "The Louvain Institute - Ireland in Europe", which already occupies most of the old seminary buildings. The chapel will become a conference hall, but the lease apparently stipulates that it will be available for activities of the Irish community in Belgium. I don't know if the annual Mass will survive, and either way it won't be quite the same with the friars gone from the College and the Irish community now much less cohesive than it was when I moved here in 1989.

In one of those odd quirks of history, the chapel has up in recent years been used for an almost clandestine weekly Mass in French on Saturday evenings: the bitterness over the Belgian language question was once so bitter in the town that is now called by its Flemish name, Leuven, that it is now illegal to celebrate a public Mass in French there, so it has to be said behind closed doors. I have some understanding of the viewpoints of both sides, but that doesn't strike me as a very Christian outcome.

While we're at it, do you know if anyone ever produced a history of the Irish presence in Louvain? It seems like a worthwhile undertaking, and if there isn't one, maybe we could suggest that the OPW commission one.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 08:59 AM

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Philbín.

I'll continue the discussion of "Don oíche úd" on the thread which you blickied above, but in the meantime if anyone has any other suggestions they would still be welcome.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 08:00 AM

An Gúm doesn't sell direct to the publlic. They don't seem to have stockist in Belgium, but they do have a listing for the Netherlands:

Brose Wresrestars
Minerebroederstraat 13
3512 GS
Utrecht
tel. [phone]

or you could be as well off ordering directly from Irish suppliers. See www.cuplafocal.ie or www.litriocht.com
or contact the book shop of Conradh na Gaeilge in Dublin: tel. [phone], facs. [phone], [e-mail]

We have a copy of An Gúm's "Catalóg Cheoil" in the office where I'm working.

Do you think "An Teicheadh go hÉigipt" would be suitable for Christmas? It's available in arrangements for women's choirs or for mixed choirs. This and many of the other songs available were arranged by Éamonn Ó Gallchobhair. He has also arranged a "Duan Nollag" and "Na Leanbhaí i mBeithil" (subject of a Mudcat thread too, but I think only English lyrics are given at the thread) both in four part harmony.

Suantraí na Maighdine (you'll find some lyrics such as Seacht Suailce na Maighdine on Mudcat; I suppose anything about Jesus' mother could be sung at Christmas, or at least the happier songs about her) is another possibility, arranged in three parts by Éamonn Ó Gallchobhair.

There are also other religious songs available that aren't particularly Christmas songs; for instance "A Rí an Domhnaigh" (arranged by Réamonn Ó Frighill), "Bí a Íosa im' Chroíse" & "Dia do Bheatha".

If you want to sing a song and don't have an arrangement, you can make your own or get someone to help you. You could even contact churches or choirs in Ireland; for instance I think the choir of Áras an Ghrianáin in Derry, which sings at an Irish language mass at Nazareth House on Sundays, sings an arrangement of Don Oíche Úd i mBeithil.

For a Belgian-Irish link look for arrangements by Earnán de Regge, from Overmere, who emigrated to Ennis, Co Clare.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 05:31 AM

plumber, check the links at the threads for Don oiche úd i mBeithil (mentions sheet music - also this is an Irish song, rather than a translation to Irish), and Jingle Bells - and check out Voice Squad for harmonies on Wexford Carol (now that you have a translation)

I think an Gum publishers have choral arrangements available for some songs

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 12:52 PM

I did a search for Irish Christmas Carols, knowing that a) the results would probably be meagre, and b) Philippa would probably be doing her best to fill the void, and seem to have been proved right on both counts ;).

In any event, this seems to be the best thread to reactivate for my purpose. I've just joined a scratch choir which gets together to sing carols every Christmas, and as the choir is based around the EU institutions and composed of people of many nationalities living in Brussels, the repertoire seeks to reflect the different nationalities represented.

The only Irish piece they've come up with is an English translation of "Bí a Íosa im chroíse" which, as far as I can see is not particularly a Christmas song.

So can anyone please point me towards something which is Irish, is if possible in an Irish-language version, is relevant to Christmas and is available on line with both words and stave notation? An arrangement in four or so voices would probably go down best, even if that is arguably not really in keeping with the Irish tradition.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:53 AM

for English language verses see the Wexford Carol Lyrics thread; click the link at the top of this page above the messages

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: MMario
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:26 AM

The phrasing for above:

Ó, tag-aig' uil-e_is adh-rai-gí An lean-bh cneas-ta sa
chró_'na luí Is cuimh-ní-gí ar ghrá an Rí A thug dár saor-adh a
nocht an Naí. 'S_a Mhui-re Mháth-air i bParr-thas Dé, Ar
chlann bhocht Éa-bha guigh 'nois go caomh, Is dor-as_an chró na
dún go deo Go n-adh-ram' feas-ta Mac Mhui-re Ógh.

I mBeith-il_ thoir i lár na hoích' Ba chlos an dea-scéal-a
d'aoi-rí, Go foll-as don saol ón spéir go binn Bhí ain-gle 'can-adh ó
rinn go rinn. Ghluais-ig' go beo,_ dúirt Aing-eal Dé, Go_
Beith-il sall is gheobhaidh sibh É 'Na luí go_ séimh i
main-séar féir, Siúd É an Meis-ias a ghráigh an saol.

Subject: Tune Add: CARÚL INIS CÓRTHAIDH / ENNISCORTHY CAROL
From: MMario
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:07 AM

X:1
T:Enniscorthy Carol
Q:1/4=82
I:abc2nwc
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:G
z4zD|G(G/2F/2) G3A|Bc d2zd|cB G D2E|
(=FG) F3D|G(G/2F/2) G3A|Bc d3B|cd B G2A|
G2G3G|G=f d c2A|(^Ac) A3(d/2c/2)|
^A/2(=AG/2) G D2E|(=FG) F2zD|G(G/2F/2) G3A|
Bc d3B|cd B G2A|GG G3

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:48 AM

Ard Mhacha

I missed your query re Ireland's Own, over Christmas. The words for the Enniscorthy Carol are in the DT, if that's what you wanted. In fact, looks like I put them there many years ago!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:39 AM

Fathair should be "Father"! (the Irish is an t-Athair, lit. the father, for a priest)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: Brían
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 04:49 PM

Go raibh maith agat!

Brían

Subject: Lyr Add: CARÚL INIS CÓRTHAIDH / ENNISCORTHY CAROL
From: Felipa
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 12:42 PM

It's a complete (albeit slim) book of about 30 songs with lyrics, notation and colour pictures.
I'll send the sheet music for the Enniscorthy Carol to MMario for conversion and posting

CARÚL INIS CÓRTHAIDH
Enniscorthy Carol: traditional, via Fathair Patrick Cummins, translated by M Cavanagh

Ó, tagaig' uile is adhraigí
An leanbh cneasta sa chró 'na luí
Is cuimhnígí ar ghrá an Rí
A thug dár saoradh anocht an Naí.
'S a Mhuire Mháthair i bParrthas Dé,
Ar chlann bhocht Éabha guigh 'nois go caomh,
Is doras an chró na dún go deo
Go n-adhram' feasta Mac Mhuire Ógh.

I mBeithil thoir i lár na hoích'
Ba chlos an deascéala d'aoirí,
Go follas don saol ón spéir go binn
Bhí aingle 'canadh ó rinn go rinn.
"Ghluaisig' go beo," dúirt Aingeal Dé,
"Go Beithil sall is gheobhaidh sibh É
'Na luí go séimh i mainséar féir,
Siúd É an Meisias a ghráigh an saol."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From:
Date: 24 Jan 03 - 11:05 AM

Did they include the lyrics in the booklet, Philippa?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: Brían
Date: 24 Jan 03 - 09:57 AM

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Philippa!

Brían

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 24 Jan 03 - 08:11 AM

"Carúil Inis Córthaigh" [Enniscorthy (County Wexford) Carol] is on the CD "Ceol na Nollag" (Christmas music) issued in Dublin by Cló Chaisil in cooperation with Foras na Gaeilge. There is a book to go with the CD.

Cló Chaisil
179 Bóthar Ráth Maoinis Uach
Ráth Maoinis
Baile Átha Cliath 6
tel. [phone]

musicians: Aoileann & Maedbh Daltú, Cormac & Fionán de Barra, Niamh Ní Thuama

songs: Oíche Nollag, Carúil Inis Córthaigh, Oíche Chiúin (Silent Night), Dia do Bheatha, Don Oíche Úd i mBeithil, Suantraí na Maighdine, Adeste Fideles, Rug Muire Mac Do Dhia, An Drumadóirín (the Little Drummer Boy), Íosagán do Thainig Chugainn, An Leanbh Íosa, Suantraí ár Slánaitheora, Seol Chugainn Síocháin, Eipeafáine

music and singing not exceptional, but quite pleasant to listen to
The Enniscorthy Carol has a particularly nice air.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Ard Mhacha
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 06:25 AM

The Enniscorthy Carol was included in last weeks "Irelands Own".
Martin Ryan do you have a copy?. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Matthew Edwards
Date: 27 Dec 02 - 04:34 AM

Martin, a belated thanks for your contribution here. I ought to have known that anything involving Grattan Flood would not be straightforward. I'd be grateful for any information you may have about the Kilmore Quay carollers and their repertoire.

From all I've read it sounds as if they would be great guests at the next Sheffield Festival of Village Carols.

It also looks as if the songbook of Luke Wadding, A Smale Garland..., would be worth some research, as it apparently contains a number of "lost tunes".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: MartinRyan
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 01:23 PM

The one Grattan Flood collected is often known as the "Enniscorthy Carol". Its not connected with the set of carols sung in Kilmore Quay, as far as I remember.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: Brían
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 10:26 PM

I don't recall the name of the singer and I could kick myself for not trying to transcribe it. I have been told that carol-singing is not considered an Irish tradition, however there are some very nice Irish Language religous songs. Joe Heaney sings a song he called OÍCHE NOLLAIG, which seems to be a fragment of THE CHERRY TREE CAROL.

Brían

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: MARINER
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 04:05 PM

I agree with Matthew Edwards. It was surely a translation to the Irish. I don't think I've ever heard of a Wexford song in the Irish language. Over the years us Yellabellys were the first to be visited by various conquerers and the native language died out in the area long before it did in other places.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: GUEST,Matthew Edwards
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 12:54 PM

John, thanks for refreshing this. I'd hoped somebody else who knows more on the subject might help. I can't find any reference to the Wexford Carol(s) ever having been in the native Irish language, but from the information I've seen it seems likely that the version Brían heard is a modern translation. Possibly a request for information to Raidió na Gaeltachta might help out here.

In the meantime here is some information about the Wexford Carol(s) as there doesn't seem be anything in the DT or Forum.

This page gives a list of publications about the Wexford Carols, while this book Folklore of County Wexford edited by Drs Diarmaid Ó Muirithe and Deirdre Nuttall, 1999 also contains some information about the carols.

The particular song generally known as "The Wexford Carol" is the one beginning "Good people all, this Christmas time" from The Oxford Book of Carols (No. 14). The editors' notes state that the carol was "kindly communicated...by Dr. Grattan Flood. The words (subsequently revised) and tune were taken down from a traditional singer in County Wexford. The words seem to have come from England..."

This carol belongs to a group of carols still sung in the village of Kilmore, Wexford to this day and some useful information is given in The Companion to Irish Traditional Music ed. Fintan Vallely, Cork University Press, 1999. The article (summarised below) is based on Diarmaid Ó Muirithe's book, The Wexford Carol.

The original set of eleven Christmas songs in A Smale Garland of Pious and Godly Songs was published in Ghent in 1684 by Luke Wadding, the Catholic Bishop of Ferns, and a member of one of the principal Anglo-Norman families of Wexford. These songs were the foundation of a tradition of carol-singing in the county of Wexford.
After Wadding's death the tradition was given new impetus by the manuscript collection of carols made by the parish priest of Drinagh, Fr William Devereux, in 1728. It is this collection, A New Garland Containing Songs for Christmas, which is the basis of the continuing tradition in the village of Kilmore where the choir still maintains the custom 'that there must be a Devereux among the carol singers'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: John Routledge
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 06:51 AM

Refresh

Subject: Lyr Req: Irish Language Wexford Carol
From: Brían
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 12:00 PM

I heard a version of the WEXFORD CAROL in Irish on Radio na Gaeltacht a year or two ago. I am wondering if anyone might have the Irish-Language version of this and also any informationon it. I would be particularly interested to know if the Irish Language version is simply a translation from English, or if it is an older version or even an independent song. I have already tried searching the forum and various google searches.

Brían