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Lyr Req: Dog and Gun / Golden Glove

mkaye@att.com 24 Jun 98 - 02:19 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 24 Jun 98 - 03:28 PM
dick greenhaus 24 Jun 98 - 03:33 PM
BAZ 24 Jun 98 - 06:20 PM
jehill 27 Jun 98 - 05:35 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 27 Jun 98 - 01:13 PM
Alan of Australia 28 Jun 98 - 05:21 AM
mkaye@att.com 30 Jun 98 - 05:29 PM
Dan Keding 01 Jul 98 - 01:19 AM
jehill 01 Jul 98 - 04:18 AM
mkaye@att.com 06 Jul 98 - 12:15 PM
Anne 25 Jul 98 - 11:12 PM
harpgirl 01 Dec 02 - 10:42 PM
Stewie 01 Dec 02 - 11:56 PM
the lemonade lady 02 Dec 02 - 07:25 AM
Sandy McLean 02 Dec 02 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,pmj 03 Jul 03 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,ps, pmj 03 Jul 03 - 11:49 AM
MartinRyan 03 Jul 03 - 05:14 PM
MartinRyan 03 Jul 03 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,dphill40@bellsouth.net 17 Jul 03 - 11:19 PM
Mark Cohen 18 Jul 03 - 12:19 AM
GUEST,Jerry 18 Jul 03 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,DORGUMALD@AOL.COM 11 Feb 05 - 08:32 AM
nutty 11 Feb 05 - 09:23 AM
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Subject: Dog & Gun
From: mkaye@att.com
Date: 24 Jun 98 - 02:19 PM

I'm trying to identify a song I taped on a Celtic or folk radio show a few years ago. By searching the Digital Tradition database, I've identified the song as "Dog & Gun". Now I'm trying to figure out the performer. The version I have on tape seems to be a solo male performer playing fingerstyle guitar and singing. His voice reminds me of the guy who was Sandy Denny's husband (whose name I can't remember). If anyone has a clue, please reply here or send email to me directly at mkaye@att.com

Thanks!

Michael Kaye


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 24 Jun 98 - 03:28 PM

The song listed in the database as "Dog and Gun" is known to me as The Golden Glove. I have a version by Chris Foster -- it's on his LP "Layers".


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Jun 98 - 03:33 PM

Roberts and Barrand also recorded it. I don't recall which record, though.


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: BAZ
Date: 24 Jun 98 - 06:20 PM

Wasn't Sandy Denny's husband Trevor Lucas?. Sandy once sang at a club I ran and she was with Trevor at that time but I don't know if they ever married.
Baz


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: jehill
Date: 27 Jun 98 - 05:35 AM

This song "The golden glove" was recorded by Nic Jones. In Nic's version the Place is Tamworth not Falmouth.


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 27 Jun 98 - 01:13 PM

And so it is in Chris Foster's version. Maybe he learned it from Nic Jones, as they were both playing in the 1970's.


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 28 Jun 98 - 05:21 AM

G'day,
Trevor Lucas (an Aussie who played with Fairport Convention and the Bushwackers was Sandy Denny's husband.) He died 3 or 4 years ago.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: mkaye@att.com
Date: 30 Jun 98 - 05:29 PM

Thanks for all the replies. I have a feeling that the version I've got recorded is the Nic Jones version mentioned in jehill's reply. Do you know what Nic Jones album this song is on? Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: Dan Keding
Date: 01 Jul 98 - 01:19 AM

The Dog and the Gun was also recorded by Logan English, an American folksinger, on an lp for Folkways in 1957 under the title The Lady and the Glove. The album is called Kentucky Folk Songs and Ballads and consists of mant songs he learned as a boy growing up in eastern Kentucky. I also reorded it on a recording called MacPherson's Lament about four years ago. My wife's father was Logan's first cousin.

Dan K.


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: jehill
Date: 01 Jul 98 - 04:18 AM

The Golden Glove was on Nic Jones' 1977 album "Noah's Ark Trap" On Trailer LER2091 now unfortunately deleted. If you look around its usually not too difficult to find a copy. Well worth getting, as are all of Nic's albums.
Regards
John


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: mkaye@att.com
Date: 06 Jul 98 - 12:15 PM

John,

In reading the forum, I came across a thread on Nic Jones from a few weeks ago. That thread referenced a web site which had track listing for all Nic's albums. When I saw the listing for Noah's Ark I found it also included a tune called Miles Weatherhill. This is on the same tape I made from the radio that has Dog & Gun and I'm sure the version I was looking for was the one called Golden Glove on the Noah's Ark LP. Thanks for all your help.

Michael


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: Anne
Date: 25 Jul 98 - 11:12 PM

I have a version of the Golden Glove sung, I think, by Roy Harris - I can tell you the name of the recording if you want it.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE GOLDEN GLOVE
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 10:42 PM

THE GOLDEN GLOVE

Text secured by Mr. G.E. Bynum, Saltillo from Mrs. Theodosia Bonnett Long, Saltillo. Compare: Campbell and Sharp, No 52;Cox, No. 121; Wyman and Brockway, P.49. (AP Hudson, Folksongs of Mississippi)

Instead of getting married, she went to her bed,
The thoughts of a farmer so ran in her head,
The thoughts of a farmer so ran in her mind;
And the way for to gain him she quickly did find.

Coat, waistcoat, and breeches this lady put on;
She's now gone a-huntin with her dogs and her gun.
She hunted all around where the farmer did dwell,
And she thought in her soul that she loved him well.

Oftimes did she fire, but nothing did she kill,
At length the young farmer came walking through the field,
And now to discourse with him it was her intent;
With her dogs and her gun for to meet him she went.

"Are you going to the wedding," this lady inquired,
"To wait upon the squire and to hand to him his bride?"
"No, my dearest madam, the truth to you I'll tell:
"I can not give her up for I love her too well."

It pleased the lady to hear him so bold,
She pulled out her glove that was covered with gold,
And she told him she found it when coming along,
As she was hunting with her dogs and her gun.

Straight home went this lady with her heart full of love,
She spread it abroad that she had lost her glove,
Amd the man that would find it and bring it unto her,
She would freely consent his fond bride to be.

The very next morning the farmer arose;
He arose to the lady with his heart full of love,
Saying, "here, dearest madam, I have found your glove,
And I hope you'll be kind as to grant me your love."

"It's already granted," the lady replied,
"I love the sweet breath of the farmer," she cried
"I'll be the mistress of my dairy and the milking of my cow,
While my jolly, brisk young farmer goes whistling to his plow."

It was after the wedding that she told of her fun,
How she hunted up the farmer with her dogs and her gun.
And now she had got him so fast in her snare;
She'll enjoy him forever, I vow and declare.


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: Stewie
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 11:56 PM

Bradley Kincaid's 1933 recording 'Dog and Gun (An old English ballad)' [Laws 20] has been reissued on Various Artists 'Harry Smith Anthology of American Folk Music Volume Four' Revenant RVN 211. Dick Spottswood has a bash at a Harry Smith headline for it: 'Lady Spurns Squire Preferring Dairy Chores to Aristocratic Leisure'. However, he admits that, had Smith written it, he would have 'also figured out a way to note that the lady employed a rifle and a hunting dog in her aggressive courtship, not only appropriating a masculine stance, but violating English class strictures in the bargain'.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:25 AM

I like singing that one. I learnt it from Pete Grassby (from his Malvern Hills CD) and he got it from Nic Jones.

It's a goodn

sal


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: Sandy McLean
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 12:37 PM

Bradley Kincaid was available on Napster singing this. It may still be kicking around in cyberspace on one of the clones.
                         Sandy


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: GUEST,pmj
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 11:44 AM

Mike Seeger sings the Bradley Kincaid version on "Solo - Oldtime Music" as well . . .


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: GUEST,ps, pmj
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 11:49 AM

My 10 yr old was asking why "the squire asked a farmer his waiter to be" at the wedding, if he was going to give the bride away it didnt sound like the usual waiter duties. . .it occurred to me that a wedding "attendant" is a "waiter" as well, from French (attendre = to wait) and that it might be an old usage indeed. Indulge me, you all sound like you might be the sorts that enjoy such observations


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: MartinRyan
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 05:14 PM

pmj

You're quite right. Judging by the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary the word was indeed used in several relevant senses aorun 15-17 C. Early on, as a high-ranking member of a noble's household, later as a groom or fottman and, at some stages, curiously, specifically a bridesmaid!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: MartinRyan
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 05:16 PM

No need to look up fottman it's a typo for footman

Regards


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: GUEST,dphill40@bellsouth.net
Date: 17 Jul 03 - 11:19 PM

I've been trying for some time now to find the song "The ballad of bugle anne" or the person or group that sang it. I found the story narrated by Lionel barrymore but I can't find the song or who sang it. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. thank you, Don Phillips


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 12:19 AM

Speaking of "waiter", it's always been interesting to me that the "attending" physician and the "patient" have, at the root, the same meaning! Not only that, but when I was a resident at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia it was common to hear the black West Philadelphian parents say, "Are you the doctor who waited on my baby yesterday?" We chuckled (or grumbled, depending on how tired we were) that we were being thought of as no more than menu-providers and order-takers, without realizing that when we "attended" to a sick child, we were actually "waiters"!

Regarding the song in question, I had what was probably Nic Jones' version on a tape I made from the WXPN folk music radio shows in Philadelphia in the late 70's. The tape is long gone, but I did manage to pen an "epilogue" of sorts. It's been posted elsewhere, I think, but here it is again: (The version posted above leaves out the beginning of the story, in which a wealthy young squire is engaged to marry a lady, he "appoints" a farmer to give the bride away, and "When the lady saw the farmer, she thought him she'd like to wed, so instead of getting married she took to her bed"--and then it continues as above.)

But what of the squire, what's happened to him?
He lost his true love, and things looked rather grim
Well, things in stories work out as they seldom do in life
For the lady had a sister--who became the squire's wife!

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 12:57 PM

In "A Sailor's Songbag: An American Rebel in an English Prison, 1777 - 1779" the song Dog and Gun appears. It was collected by said Rebel (Timothy Connor) during his imprisonment.

The second verse begins:
The time was appointed for the wedding day
A young Farmer was chosen the Father to be.

So way back in the 18th century there wasn't talk of "waiters" at all. I wonder if a fatherless bride would have someone appointed as her "father" to walk her down the aisle. If so, it seems odd it would be a tenant of the groom. But then, there'd be no story if she didn't see the fellow before she got married.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: GUEST,DORGUMALD@AOL.COM
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 08:32 AM

I LIKE THIS SONG ALSO THAT I DISCOVERED IN THE HARRY SMITH ANTHOLOGY V.4 but i'm searching for the lyrics and if someone 's got this one please send at my mail
thanks
romuald


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Subject: RE: Dog & Gun
From: nutty
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 09:23 AM

Golden Glove, The (Dog and Gun) [Laws N20]

DESCRIPTION: A lady is to be married, but finds she prefers the farmer who is to give her away. She pleads illness and
calls off the wedding. She claims she has lost a glove (which she placed on the farmer's land) and will marry whoever finds it.
The rest is obvious
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1830
KEYWORDS: clothes courting marriage trick
FOUND IN: Britain(England,Scotland) US(Ap,MW,NE,SE,So) Canada(Mar) Ireland
REFERENCES (17 citations):
Laws N20, "The Golden Glove (Dog and Gun)"
Belden, pp. 229-231, "Dog and Gun (The Golden Glove)" (1 text plus 2 extracts and fragments of 2 more, 1 tune)
Randolph 71, "With Her Dog and Gun" (2 texts, 1 tune)
Randolph/Cohen, pp. 95-97, "With Her Dog and Gun" (1 text, 1 tune -- Randolph's 71A)
Eddy 64, "Dog and Gun" (2 texts)
Gardner/Chickering 73, "The Dog and the Gun" (1 text plus an excerpt and mention of 1 more, 1 tune)
Flanders/Brown, pp. 117-118, "The Dog and Gun" (1 text, 1 tune)
BrownII 197, "Dog and Gun" (1 text plus mention of 1 more)
Chappell-FSRA 60, "The Golden Glove" (1 text, 1 tune)
Hudson 43, pp. 158-159, "The Golden Glove" (1 text, lacking the beginning explaining the reason for the lady's
behavior)
Wyman-Brockway I, p. 49, "The Lady and the Glove" (1 text, 1 tune)
Warner 145, "The Golden Glove (or, The Dog and the Gun)" (1 text, 1 tune)
SHenry H524, p. 328, "The Squire's Bride" (1 text, 1 (non-traditional) tune)
JHCox 121, "Dog and Gun" (1 text plus mention of 4 more, 1 tune -- but for one of the unprinted texts!)
JHCoxIIA, #20, pp. 83-84, "The Farmer and His Bride" (1 text, 1 tune)
Creighton/Senior, pp. 147-150, "The Dog and the Gun" (2 texts, 1 tune)
DT 332, DOGGUN*
Roud #141
RECORDINGS:
Logan English, "The Lady and the Glove" (on LEnglish1 -- several verses filled in from Wyman-Brockway I)
Bradley Kincaid, "Dog and Gun" (Bluebird B-5255, 1933)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
The Squire
The Rich Esquire
File: LN20


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